The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 sense

Safinated · 2024-01-13T15:17:36+00:00

It makes perfect sense if you’re trying to convince people to do things that they normally wouldn’t do and/or are unappealing

bluestjuice · 2024-01-13T14:49:51+00:00

I think people use the word submissive here when they are really talking about qualities like being easygoing and willing to adjust to the other’s preferences. These folks don’t want their partner to challenge them. They do want them to have opinions or offer a perspective when it’s asked for.

bluepvtstorm · 2024-01-13T15:03:31+00:00

Here’s the part that most men fail to acknowledge and understand. Submission and deference is earned and has to continue to be earned. The person seeking submission has to be a leader worth following.

They have to prove that they are competent and capable of being head of household and it’s not just financially either. It’s all about the things that ensure safety and security.

Finances is a big one so we can start there. If the person seeking submission has proven to be fiscally irresponsible then why would anyone continue to allow them to control the finances. They haven’t earned the right to be the primary decision maker. They have to continue to show up daily willing to learn and adjust to become better at it.

I travel a lot and I see a lot of interesting interactions at the airport. There are men who show up at the airport and have relied on the wife to do everything. They barely know where their wallet is. So she’s wrangling kids, has all the passports, she’s even loading the bags for the airline employees to weigh. He’s standing there doing nothing.

The other wives come up, the husband has all the paperwork, the kids are quiet because mom is able to pay attention to them because dad has all the documents, he knows how much each bag weighs, he had everyone at the airport on time. Those wives are usually just softer somehow. She isn’t talking about getting two Jack and cokes on the plane. She’s patiently waiting for her partner with their children while dad handles business. He earned that soft submissive wife just being handling things.

It’s not given, it’s earned.

2024-01-13T14:20:42+00:00

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Early_Inspector988 · 2024-01-13T14:59:42+00:00

Proving that nobody really understands what the word means.

2024-01-13T13:16:37+00:00

It’s a trade off for each relationship, you have to have a natural inclination to be submissive/nurturing and he has to want to take charge/provide for the family. Sometimes you just want someone to make the hard decisions and do the hard shit. This absolutely does not work for many people and shouldn’t be an enforced relationship standard

2024-01-13T14:19:37+00:00

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OutOfOranges · 2024-01-13T12:58:16+00:00

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Expensive-Tea455 · 2024-01-13T21:23:58+00:00

A lot of red pilled males think that a woman should automatically submit to them simply because they have a penis and that’s it 😐 it’s doesn’t seem to occur to them that female submission is not supposed to be free and they need to make themselves into a man worthy of submission first… why should a woman just submit to a random ass man that’s not doing anything for her?? What does she get out of doing that?? Women will 100% submit to men who make them feel safe enough to do so, this means he mentally, financially, emotionally, etc.

Women who submit to men for free without requiring anything almost always end up getting abused, if not, straight up murdered… submitting to the wrong guy WILL have dire consequences for women, so if you are a man that wants a woman to submit to you, then you have to prove yourself as a man worthy of submission first…

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-01-13T12:46:42+00:00

i always preferred the term "deference" to submission. my husband is the tie breaker. most of the time we roll along either agreeing about things or one of us not caring about the thing enough to have an opinion. where we come into disagreement i defer to his judgment. works for us

WilliamWyattD · 2024-01-13T13:16:00+00:00

'Submit' is an overly strong word for 2024, yes. It is more suitable to a time when the husband often had to make life or death decisions for the family, or when he was legally responsible for their actions. That doesn't mean he should be a tyrant, only that if he 'puts the foot down' you have to obey and follow, though not necessarily agree.

In 2023, where each party can leave a marriage at any time for any reason, technically each partner has a 50% vote and there is no tiebreaker. Divorce is the tie breaker.

That said, even now, the ideal male-female dynamic is hard to perfectly articulate. Hypergamy has a core element of admiring and looking up to your man in a way that is not symmetrical for both genders. And hypergamy tends to focus on traits revolving around worldly strength and competence. There is an innate female desire to marry a man 'above' her in some key ways (though not necessarily 'better' overall, as who can do that math?). There is a desire to be led more than to lead. Even to be dominated at times, and more often than she dominates him. This is not limited to the bedroom.

But that doesn't mean a woman wants a tyrant husband either. So IMO this is subtle and complex stuff, and I'm not sure we have found the ideal wording for it yet. But also remember that this is an ideal for most women, yet all relationships fail to be ideal in all ways. I'm sure there are ways to happiness even without the above dynamics. Furthermore, the ideal dynamics between men and women in a relationship do not necessarily represent the ideal dynamics between men and women outside of them. Wanting YOUR man to be superior in these ways does not mean women want to treat all men this way, or that all women should treat all men this way.

scrimshaw_is_art · 2024-01-13T19:03:54+00:00

I’m a woman who believes in submitting to her husband. I do, in fact, consider him superior to me in those ways [hello, hypergamy ;)] I like that I can trust his judgement.

I don’t think he’s always right, but I know if we disagree on a matter, there’s a good chance that I may be wrong as well. The other side of being the leader in a relationship and having a submissive partner is having to take responsibility if you pick the wrong choice, and I am glad that doesn’t fall on my shoulders much of the time.

That being said, he does do a wonderful job of listening to my thoughts and feelings whenever I bring them up. He considers them as if they were his own, acknowledges when I’m right, and adjusts his positions and decisions accordingly. When I am wrong, he will automatically provide logical reasoning for it; it’s never an ego or power-tripping thing… it’s just when there is no consensus, and we’ve talked everything through, he is the “tie breaker.”

Capital-Literature-9 · 2024-01-13T13:51:22+00:00

It's a harsh word but the premise isn't far off. The idea behind "submitting to your man" from what I've heard from TRP it goes like this:

Authority and responsibility are linked. And ultimately if your man is responsible for you then he needs a degree of authority over you. If he's going to be responsible for your safety/ wealth/ health/ happiness then you need to sometimes accept things that you might not always agree about.

Because if a man is ultimately expected to defend you if you were physically threatened or attacked, then he at least expects you to not be an argumentative, disagreeable person on pointless non issues. Because who the hell wants to protect someone who can't even agree with them.

As someone in the Redpill/ manosphere put it:

"If it's something you care about and are very knowledgeable about, like if the subject is Ancient Roman history and you have a degree in Ancient Roman then fine argue the point. But if it's cars, or something you don't really give a shit about, why are you trying to fuck it up by just being argumentative?"

Cool_Ranch_2511 · 2024-01-13T12:59:55+00:00

We willingly give authority over to others all the time. Even a cashier at the grocery has some authority over you, but we both want the same outcome so I don't challenge their authority and demand to scan my own items. That's what the "self checkout" is for. None of this means I think they're superior in any way, I just want these roles because they work and they make life easier for everyone involved.

I'm amazed this isn't actually intuitive for some people

nnuunn · 2024-01-13T19:39:02+00:00

The word "submission" has taken on a negative connotation recently, I think a better term would be something like "subordination." It's not that men are so much better and smarter than women that they just have to do everything that men say without question, it's that, for the sake of good order, it's better to have one person who makes the decisions and has the final say, as we see in any organization.

If you decided to just do whatever you want at work, instead of what your boss told you to do, everyone at work would suffer, because you would be gumming up the works with your insubordination. Clearly, in extreme circumstances, yes, you shouldn't do what your boss says, but in the day to day, everything works best when everyone knows their roles and sticks to them.

Personally, I think a household where the woman is explicitly the head of the house and the man accepts a subordinate or submissive role is probably going to work better than a household where both partners try to be "equal."

OutOfOranges · 2024-01-13T14:07:14+00:00

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PowerGlove-it-so-bad · 2024-01-15T00:25:07+00:00

"I can't imagine how someone can view the husband as having authority over the wife and not view the husband as superior to some degree. "

well he is.. in some degree. Just like a woman would be superior... in some degree.

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-01-13T13:12:11+00:00

Diet Red Pill. The most effective long-term relationships are when the woman feels inferior to the man. If you raise her up, she'll use that height to spit down on you, or if you're equal, in your face.

xxxMisogenes · 2024-01-13T19:11:12+00:00

Kevin Samuels defined submission to one interviewee as 'live peaceably with a man'; she asked 'You mean, let him be the man?' and then shook her head.

bruhminer · 2024-01-14T09:36:35+00:00

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

babazuki · 2024-01-13T13:48:13+00:00

Nice people are always worried they aren't nice enough. That's why they act so nice.

Comedians are always worried they aren't entertaining enough. That's why they are so funny.

Women often find themselves worried they aren't opinionated enough. Or that they don't put up enough of a fight in relationships.

The trait you think you need more is the trait you have in abundance. You don't want to be seen as submissive. It's ok, no one sees you that way. You want your voice to be heard more. It's ok, everyone around you knows exactly how you feel and they would like to not hear it so much.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-01-13T18:03:03+00:00

When they say submissive they basically don't want this strong boss bitch I don't need a man attitude

abaxeron · 2024-01-13T17:55:45+00:00

And no this is not the same to BDSM at all , in healthy BDSM there are clear boundaries

There are clear boundaries here too. "You live in my house, you eat my food, you spend my money, you get orgasms from me - you follow my rules. You don't follow my rules - you don't get any of those things as well". Simple. Easy. Obvious.

Purple-Poppins · 2024-01-13T13:41:53+00:00

Agreed that submission is not the word to use.

I prefer how RPW looks at the topic, often referring to a Captain/First Mate relationship model. A good captain relies heavily on his first mate and confers with them on issues of importance, and a first mate is chosen for their ability to have good judgement when the captain is unavailable and provides a different perspective.

Sometimes you have a drunk captain who makes unpredictable dangerous irrational choices, or a tyrannical captain who doesn't care what his first mate or crew thinks and just barks orders, or a lazy captain who defers everything to the first mate.

A good first mate will try everything they can to sober a drunk captain or temper a tyrant or motivate a lazy captain, but if they are unable to help restore his confidence and sanity, the first mate is always free to leave the ship.

So at least in my relationship, he gets the privilege of making decisions by default, but hes very aware that if I don't agree with his decisions and he doesn't take my objections into account, hes not gonna have a happy homemaker for much longer. Deference is a much better word.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2024-01-13T15:49:24+00:00

I disagree that “submission” in TRP terms means what you say it means. And I say that as the guy who wrote the TRP series on submissive women, and also on slave girls. Throughout those series, I emphasize that consent is important thing. Submission is conditioned on the consent of the submitted.

When a woman submits to a man or is agreeable, or differs, or whatever terminology, you find palatable, she does so, because she has confidence in his leadership and competence.

Your post read like “I don’t like TRP, therefore, I am going to create a narrative around my dislike of it.”

AceOfSpadesGymBro3 · 2024-01-13T13:07:55+00:00

It's really not that complicated girls. Relationships with me are not a democracy. Two people don't fit comfortably into a pair of pants. I'm in the driver's seat and we are going in the direction I want. Women are more than welcome and capable and willing to voice their opinion. But there is a line that can get crossed when it becomes nagging or just being annoying and combative. That's what men don't like. They don't need someone making it more difficult to run things. If that's the kind of relationship you want, maybe it's best to stay single.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-01-13T13:47:20+00:00

It comes down to respect. At this point in time, submission to women means even having the trust to have their man make one single decision without them.

There’s a classic double bind I see happen all the time. Here it is:

-wife is strong, independent and can lead the household -still pissed off her husband isn’t more of a leader, doing things on his own etc.

Yet they still can’t seem to figure out why it doesn’t work.

This is why I tell my friends and acquaintances after commitment, keep doing whatever the hell you’re going to do and use “no” on a regular basis when you aren’t doing something. If they got with you when you were living the life you were before, demanding you change it after is on them.

The issue is most men are desperate and, therefore, let the woman determine the course of the relationship. It rarely works.

Women say they don’t want to mother their husbands while not realizing they are the exact issue creating and fostering the dynamic.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-01-13T14:19:35+00:00

Maybe not inferior in value but certainly inferior in judgement, logic and reason.

Duh? The man should far exceed the woman in these areas. If he doesn't that's fucking pathetic.

There is a reason why women want a taller man who makes more money. There is a reason women want a man who doesn't cry. The man has to be better than them, stronger than them, more emotionally stable than them.

But women are very weak in these areas and it's pathetic if a man can't easily be that for a woman. But once this dynamic exists then yes there is a clear leader and a clear follower. So submission is definitely the right word.

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MateriallyRetarded · 2024-01-13T21:59:19+00:00

I'm only attracted to men that are better than me.

Biggesttaestan · 2024-01-14T06:58:23+00:00

girl, everything here don't make sense..

Hot-Solution-1960 · 2024-01-14T07:59:39+00:00

i’ll be submissive for a man who builds me a house. most modern men have zero practical skills though so i guess until then i’ll wear the pants.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-01-14T23:06:35+00:00

Basically agree that Red Pill description of "dominance" is usually out of whack. When I was reading the stuff there were some thoughtful commenters who nailed it, but not most. A lot of it was just "I'm the Alpha and therefore I'm the fucking boss and I get whatever the fuck I want, just cuz."

It's interesting that you mention BDSM and I agree with your assessment.

I've gotten involved in some D/s relationships because I like being a good lover and so many women desired this dynamic to maximize their pleasure. I didn't seek it out initially but eventually I embraced it.

Along the lines of what you said, I've learned that being a dom is not just about getting your way cuz you're the boss and you say so. It's about taking responsibility for most or all aspects of the relationship and managing it in a way that is pleasing for all involved. The reality is that submission must be earned after demonstrating not only attractiveness and sexual skill, but also establishing trust that you care about the sub's pleasure and respecting their boundaries. Most of the time I might be overtly dominant and getting my way, but all the little details of finding out how to give her pleasure, showing that I won't push her past her limits, and slowing things down when necessary to check in is what really builds the trust and respect necessary to go deep into the D/s dynamic.

Much of these guys in Red Pill spaces are what are called "fake doms" in the BDSM world, because they think being dominant is getting your way just because you say you're a dom, without any consideration for anyone else.

There are many parallels with non-sexual aspects of relationships, including with people who don't claim any BDSM desires, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Rare-Emu-119 · 2024-01-21T15:03:27+00:00

I never liked the term “submissive.” However, I recall my experience dating in Los Angeles as kind of annoying because so many of the women were so combatitive… I would take a little less than that.

It’s like so many women were either looking for an argument or looking for something that was wrong with you… not all… but it was a theme.

I was never the type of dude to like give my opinion on political shit either… which I KNOW guys do because I have friends like that hahhaha.

Title	The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 sense
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	43
Comments	235
Date	January 13, 2024 12:41 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/195n664/the_way_trp_describes_female_submission_makes_0/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-way-trp-describes-female-submission-makes-0.1242865 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242865

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