http://redditmetrics.com/r/TheRedPill
Man, this is going to rustle a LOT of jimmies.
This all started because some poor sap in /r/allmenshouldknow got his panties in a twist over the fact that us TRPers don't believe in Unicorns and True LoveTM.
We've added 761 965 new members today alone, and 1,119 between today and yesterday. We have only received a spike bigger than this on 1/4 of this year when we added 1,027 members in one day, and this day isn't over yet.
Update: we are now up to 1,206 new subscribers, making this the single greatest TRP subscriber spike of all time.
This is why we don't advertise ourselves at all. We don't have to. Even as furiously as Reddit has been jerking itself off today about how awful we all are, their collective groupthink can't stop some curious souls from wondering why the stuff we're saying makes so much god damned sense.
It is worth mentioning that however popular TRP gets, it will NEVER be accepted by the mainstream. Don't even bother trying - at the end of the day, women control most communication channels, and women will never let a way of thinking such as ours become socially acceptable.
But YOU have TRP, and that's all that matters. TRP is not a social movement aimed at changing society, TRP is about empowering the individual man to be the best person he can possibly be.
So don't let anyone's opinion of us change your mission.
Conflating strategy with manipulation can get pretty messy. It essentially boils down to the psyche of a victim vs aggressor. The idea that applying behaviors to get a desired outcome as manipulative are typically portrayed by a victim mindset. i.e. "he tricked me by doing X" Only the attending party can filter their experience according to personal gain. aka "he said, she said."
Is someone manipulative for applying strategy to achieve a desired outcome? Training a canine to not urinate on the carpet is an act of manipulation by the dog owner. However this action is not deemed as spiteful or cruel. A man applying methods to encourage desired behaviors from his partner however is deemed as an malevolent and destructive.
Where is the contrast in either strategy? Is manipulating a different species somehow less significant? The truth of the matter is that neither are morally different. Both sexes are manipulative by nature. A back and forth of strategies are applied by each sex in order to achieve a desired outcome.
I think the chief concern of women is the idea that they are being deceived. That the choices they have made are irrelevant to the machinations of a grand scheme that they cannot control or maintain. Such a feeling of powerlessness can be very frightening, and I believe that feeling leads to the vitriol that we see on the debates to the issue.
Men share in dread the idea of being fooled.
I would say that its more manipulation for the animal because they don't know what you're doing. If I tell a woman that if she doesn't stop talking to her X then I am going to leave, that's not manipulation, she either falls in line or we break up. She has the choice whether or not to do the action. If she chooses too then we continue if not then we don't.
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To answer one of your questions: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1wwpqc/why_women_love_assholes_an_alternate_view/
If you are interested in learning about TRP, read the side bar. Most doubts will be explained.
Paternity fraud:
Interesting: Child support | Fathers' rights movement | Child support in the United States | Paternity (law)
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Statistics have frequently been cited here and on many of our resource sites. But for many opponents of the red pill, feels > reals.
That guy was way too liberal with his use of the word "abuse." To hear him tell it, playing hard to get is "literally torturing someone." Sounds like someone needs to cut back on the melodrama.
Women have been playing the game for as long as anyone can remember. Don't get your panties in a twist just because some men are finally picking up the ball... AND DUNKING IN YOUR FUCKING FACE.
Game on.
but women have no power so it's ok for them to use sex as a tool /s
Yeah, I called him out on it. Naturally, my comment was downvoted (I don't care about the downvotes, just pointing out how easily that BS gets accepted) and his reply to me was short on facts and rich on more histrionics.
I'm another that just subscribed today due to that white knight EMSK post and all the politically correct jagoffs that danced around it. I just had to see WTF was going on here to stir the weasels up to such a pitch.
I'm 50 and we sure as shit didn't have this kind of information around back then. You just had to wing it and learn from your mistakes and others and hope you didn't end up road kill from a divorce.
I lasted 13 years in a marriage then it blew the fuck up and put me in a hellish depression. Eight long years later from that horror show and I'm sick and tired of suffering. I think it's time for me to become a pimp mother fucker and get my rock n roll game back on.
I figure I have two choices, two paths, one is to just accept my doom at this point in the game or find some empowerment. There isn't much empowerment for guys surprisingly in today's fucked in the head politically correct culture. But that fucking EMSK post whined so hard about the red pill stuff that I just had to take a look at it. Is this a powerup of information to get a guy's head back in the game with a fucking plan?
From the gist I'm seeing that it's pretty upbeat considering how fucking dismaying the subject of dealing with an estrogen overloaded society can be. Circle the damn wagons, get a battle plan and fight back? Sounds good to me.
I see I have a fuck ton of stuff to read by looking at the side bar. Here's to it.
You sound like you fit right in here. Welcome.
Thanks, and I hope I contribute something while here.
I'm sure your wisdom and experience will be very valuable. If you don't mind me asking, why do you think the marriage didn't work out?
It was my fault, of course. Ha!
Start with the Misandry Bubble. It'll put everything into context!
And welcome!
I read most of it, I skim read things. Plenty I agree with and it's got some good points. It really spells it out how marriage is completely fucked here in the west which I agree, but as a person of (some) faith it's a super disturbing thing to see decimated.
I'm lucky compared to some poor bastards when it comes to the devastation of divorce. We split the stuff in a civil manner and didn't use lawyers, because frankly, fuck lawyers, right? It was just emotionally wrecking because I believed that you marry, that's for life, one honors one's sacred commitments. I was emotionally invested and committed, I don't fuck around when I do something.
I now have a Pavlovian response when I hear someone got married; "poor fool!" That was a good read and summed up things nicely and covered somethings I hadn't thought of.
Also subscribed today. I'm not a stranger to the TRP philosophies, but I got them from books about human behavior, the PUA scene etc.
I would argue they helped me out of a two year long depression in which I fell after my then first girlfriend dumped me. Learning how people work (yeah, so I was shy and socially inept, what can you do?) and realizing the mental abuse I received from my ex changed my world.
Reading the PC, high-voted "oh yeah, I love my girlfriend, I would never do anything like this to her." made me boil inside. Lucky bastards, I envy them for never having to experience the humiliation of being in the same room with your GF while she talks to her friends about another guy in a language you don't understand, but fuck them for judging me for not being all rainbows after these experiences. Or the "why can't these people just be themselves?" comments. Well how do you think we got these damaging experiences? "This sub is just for guys who were to shy as teenagers or are still hung-up about the girl who rejected them back in high school." That's probably partly true, and that's what we're changing in here. Go figure...
I'm still too nice (women have even told me that to the face) but my confidence is at least not so low anymore and I'm no longer depressed. I got good at detecting most bullshit and manipulation from women, but also people in general. My social skills in general sky rocketed.
Usually I can't be bothered with manipulation, I just ignore it and avoid people that participate in it, that includes me avoiding to be manipulative as well. Nevertheless I'm sure commenting on this sub will be interesting and I'm sure I will also get some downvotes once in a while.
The EMSK post pointed out correctly that the strategies can be used for evil and they probably have, but I would argue that the educational experience is far more important to ignore this information in here. Moral judgments are up to you, people. The strategies are tools, but what you make with them is up to you.
For the record, the red pill doesn't advocate against being nice, but gives suggestions on how to realize when others are taking advantage of your niceness (not exclusive to women, but usually). There is masculinity and fulfillment in being generous, but only from a position of respect. That's the difference between providing for your family or volunteering and... Buying expensive dinner/movies/flowers for a girl who "likes you as a friend."
I think the key is whether you are being nice out of genuine affection or to get sex.
Do not be nice to her if you want sex, do not call her beautiful to get sex. It gives the woman the power to use sex against you.
Call her beautiful if you think she looks fucking beautiful.
I'm not sure "nice guys" do that on purpose. I claim that these guys rarely have the thought: Alright, what nice thing can I do to her today so she finally agrees on getting me to put it in?
Instead they lack the tools to create attraction. A lot of it comes from confidence of saying "no" to her for instance. Calling your girl beautiful doesn't seem to be a problem in general, I'd say. Sure, there's the problem of dishonesty if you really just do it so she's going to have sex with you, but that's the only reason I wouldn't advise that.
The problem of being "nice" is that if she realizes that you are totally uncritical in every way and just want constant "harmony" no matter what she does. It's going to be boring and you're a wuss for just satisfying her shallow need of getting some feel-good compliments regardless of what she does. Doesn't mean not to be supportive if there is an actual problem, but honestly, most people (not just women) whine about non-issues anyway. If you're the nice guy she can complain to all the time and you keep supporting her on these non-issues.. that is the problem with being nice. So don't be nice unconditionally and you should be fine avoiding the nice guy problem on a large extent.
I'll give some context there. It was about the last girlfriend that cheated on me and I explained to another girl how the relationship ended and how it affected me, having invested quite a lot in the relationship. After she realized how much I've invested, she said I'm probably "too nice and the ex has not appreciated my efforts" to which I have to agree.
So I was too nice to my last ex according to that friend. Circumstances unfortunately required me to invest a bit more than I myself felt comfortable with. It's kind of good that my ex didn't stick to the relationship because she thought that she owed it to me, but she shouldn't have let me risk as much in the first place.
Our stories are very similar. Hit the gym. I'm talking something like crossfit with a trainer that will really kick your ass and make your core hurt like hell 3x a week. You'll be glad you did, us older guys need it more than the younger guys. It changed my life.
Love the attitude. We are upbeat because there's nothing to be depressed about. As long as I'm not one of the pandering Benedict Arnold clown men who throw the rest of the gender under the bus, I'll be proud and happy.
Welcome brother. You are in good company here.
For those wondering why "women control most communication channels".
I work in radio. For ratings when we send out diaries for people to fill out (on which stations they listen to/for how long every day/ect), the only people who reply are women. Men sometimes do to, but 85% of the time it is women. This means that pretty much every radio station on the planet tries to cater to women so they can get those high numbers.
A classic rock station's audience might be 70% men, but if only women fill out the diaries, then that's all we register as who is listening.
Your station needs to employ a statistician...
Doubt they will. Clear Channel Radio and CBS Radio are both billions in debt because they run shitty operations.
Thanks for posting that. I was going to comment on it being bullshit, but what you said makes reasonable sense.
Also i commented on the EMSK post because i subscribe. My god you should have seen the comments i got. I subscribe to both because i think theres value in both. But it seems there are some a holes over there just as there are some a holes here.
Seems to have touched a nerve.
Welcome to all the new guys.
Let this be the first piece of advice to you. Read the sidebar material, then go on and sort by the top rated threads of all time and read those.
That'll prevent you from asking questions that have been answered a million times.
Other than that, congratulations on taking the first step.
A word of advice for all the new people, if you are going to be active in this sub, please create a new account. There are people watching us and ready to shadow ban people that subscribe or comment on these threads.
Admins aren't going to do shit. Shadowbanning isn't within the realm of possibility. However, mods might ban people.
People follow your history and will downvote perfectly fine posts because they see you here. Get enough downvotes everywhere and they think you're a troll. Shadowban. I see it happen a lot.
Eh, if you don't have enough comment karma to avoid that you probably can just make another account. With 12k, I feel perfectly safe.
Can you explain that a bit more? What does "shadow ban" mean? Do people actually spend time looking at other people's postings? I've been on Reddit a while, but still don't know how things work around here.
Shadowban is a stupid idea the developers at reddit came up with to silently delete everything you do, but without telling you about it so you think you're posting (and just not getting any responses).
Yes, people will follow your history and downvote you for being here, and yes, if you accidently divulge personal info, they will try to contact your family/friends/job to fuck up your life.
Thanks. Wow, this really is controversial stuff. Do you ever feel like chucking it in, and becoming politically correct on every subject, just to avoid having to deal with the shit?
Nope, just delete all your posts after a week unless they are something you feel like keeping for a major thread or something important. Keep you personals on the down low and have a few alt accounts, I have one just for my area subreddit to keep this main safe. Most here have had at least a few accounts banned in different subs for not towing the party line. Fuck'em, just be you.
Say you post in other subreddits and say something that they do not agree on. Some people from feminist or white knight subs will look into your posting history. If they see that you commented on here, they will call you out on it. If it becomes a big deal then there is a possibility you will get banned from those subreddits.
I keep 2 accounts and speak my mind in this account. I've had my other account for 3 years and I would not like it to be viewed as negative. I don't want to be judged by it. TRP has a very negative reputation associated with it. Mainly by people who do not understand what it really is.
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♂ Good on you for recommending /r/asktrp and pointing folks there. If you're new that is the place for you. We have an entire network now to help this sub remain on topic, which is "the discussion of sexual strategies in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/asd1100 by bsutansalt. [History]
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I'm not really a red-piller (not that I don't agree with the strategies presented here, it's just not for me at the moment). But I'm willing to bet there's at least a few guys out there who wouldn't be here today if they hadn't found this place, so those of you fostering novel conversation and supplying useful information deserve a pat on the back.
I honestly think that if Elliot Rodger had found this place instead of PUA and PUA-hate, he and his victims might still be alive.
The "manosphere" (god i hate that term but whatever) as a whole is hitting critical mass, and it's not only improving lives but saving them.
To me, TRP, the MRHM, and MGTOW comprise a sort of holy trinity of the new gender awareness.
TRP is the rational response. These are the men who just do what needs to be done.
MRA is the idealistic response. These are the guys who see any situation and think it could be made better.
And MGTOW is the melancholic response. These are the guys who just accept things the way they are, and abstain from their expected role either as a rational choice or as a silent protest.
All three are growing movements. The MHRM has the most supporters "on paper", MGTOW probably has the most practicers in total (many are not even familiar with these concepts, but are going their own way nonetheless), and TRP probably has the highest potential for near-future growth (though it is also the hardest for an outsider to comprehend given limited attention spans - rights activists and separatists are familiar concepts, whereas sexual strategy is unfamiliar and the name is cryptic).
Obviously, these are broad generalizations and there's a fair degree of overlap, but I think the fact that downtrodden men can come to this larger community of loosely-connected "movements" and have this kind of a-la-carte menu for ways to deal is kind of awesome.
Anyway, that's just my complimentary tip-o-the-hat. Cheers guys.
I like it this bit particularly.
Me too. I abstained from the MRA because of viewing it as sharing flaws with other movements....idealism.
In practical terms I prefer individual solutions because that makes the aggregate harder to break. No clear leader makes TRP/MGTOW much more difficult to assault due to its asymmetric nature.
Jesus Henry Christos, you Americans love your abbreviations.
I think Mgtow is a pokemon.
MGTOW used "Fap"
Its super effective!
He was clinically depressed. Not some armchair psychologist diagnosing depression, but receiving medication and counselling for it. That's actually a common theme among these mass shooters/killers. It's unlikely that a philosophy based on logic would have helped someone who didn't have all their logical faculties.
Fair enough. I would argue that being depressed doesn't rob a person of his logical faculties, just makes it more difficult to address things logically.
But that's neither here nor there I guess.
Depending on what he had. That would really be for actual psychiatrists to decide for sure.
Depends on your needs, I guess. I need women like a bicycle needs a smelly, smelly fish.
yeah that's fair enough. I suppose i might argue that most heterosexual men go through at least a phase where their time, effort, and mental energy revolve almost totally around women - some can suppress it but I think most succumb for a while. So it's somewhat rational if you want to embrace this drive rather than fight it.
In essence though TRP caters to most needs, wether they involve women or not.
Self improvement is its own justification.
The responses to that EMSK post are so AWESOME. The majority of men WANT to be forever-betas, white knights in shining armour, "marriage material". And I can only scream with ectasy, "Oh yes!!". Please go ahead.
Meanwhile, in TRP-land, GayLubeOil writes, "The twist though is that she chose to be with me. She left a very nurturing dude who drove sixty miles to her work to give her flowers. He would text her poems. His whole life was her. She left this guy for me. Even though I told her im a dick. Even though I read her some of my most controversial Red Pill posts. Even though I told her that im difficult and our relationship will be difficult and that a lot of people don't like me for some very good reasons.
There are plenty of politically correct betas roaming around"
:-)
I'm going to go out on a limb and make my first post here. I've been lurking this subreddit for the past couple of weeks. I found this place after a friend of mine and I were having a discussion and he made an off the cuff reference to taking the red pill while on the subject of male/female dynamics. It seemed that he was laying on the hints pretty heavy that he wanted me to come look at this place but he still denies ever knowing TRP theory. I've always been pretty beta, if not worse and in my short time of reading here I've gotten much more confident and can manage my own level of happiness. I haven't had a regular partner since high school and even that was short lived and unsatisfying.
I can only ask that no one here change anything that they are doing because I don't know how much longer I could have gone on living like I was. This subreddit was the kick in the ass that I've been waiting for.
Thank you.
Edit - And thanks for the gold
Hey this stuff hit me like a brick wall too. If you apply the things you learn here and start getting in shape you will climb over that wall. This is a wall that many men in their life will never even see.
Women hit the wall and it's all over.
Men improve themselves and climb over it.
Some choose to take the path of least resistance (i.e. Continue on like nothing is wrong). We choose to take the more difficult path because we can.
We are just a different breed when it comes down to it.
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A generation of fathers abdicated their responsibility for their 7 deadly sins. Its not our fault, or our grandfathers.
I really wish I could introduce this to this one guy who is in major need of it. Seriously at this rate he's going to marry some divorced rejected 40 year old post-wall post-carousel broad like a chump. Though unfortunately he has no backbone and no interest in changing anything about himself for as long as Ive kinda known him
Sounds like he is choosing his sorrows long before he experiences them
Oh yes. So many bad life choices have no immediate repercussions.
He's making his own bed; let him lie in it.
When he sees how comfy YOUR bed is, he'll wonder why his is so shit.
That's not what a man does when he sees someone else unhappy.
A man offers help and lets someone else be unhappy only after the help has been rejected.
Yadda yadda Ghandi yadda yadda be the change in the world yadda yadda best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, second best time is now.
Leading by example is exactly what a man does.
Then make an example out of yourself and offer the damn help cause otherwise it's a case of "Hey this guy has a twisted ankle, he should look at me and see the merits of not having a twisted ankle" instead of helping him set it back in place.
Its too late by then. They are ingrained in their ways and they have convinced themselves they are happy. Its a smile that doesn't quite reach their eyes.
Just be a bro, get a few beers and drink them with him. bring the subject up. If he rejects it outright just get him a little drunker.
Once he opens up to the idea bookmark the damn sub-reddit on his phone or computer or some shit.
Sometimes the only way we can see that we need help is to hit rock bottom.
Never did i understand the words of Tyler Durden better than when i was being helped to the hospital ward toilets by my family after a post-break up suicide attempt, during which my ex never even commented.
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything"
That was my rock bottom, it was also my rebirth. I got out, got my health back, got 70lbs lighter overall while building lean mass. (Body fat reduced from around 45 to 20%), got a confidence that i'd never had in my entire life and built the life i wanted.
If he asks for help - Provide it
If he doesnt ask for help, and he never hits bottom - Let him live his life
If he doesnt ask for help and he does hit rock bottom - Help him, and dont hold his previous stupidity against him
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I mean... I see your point... Kinda
But you gotta take into account that white power is associated with racist groups cause... Well thats their platform.
Yeah. And black/hispanic/whatever pride is often about overcoming disadvantages from being a minority/previously enslaved group/etc.
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Tangentially related note: I've seen one of these /r/polandball comics where Poland and Germany talk and Germany says "Poland, I've been proud once. Millions of people died"
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Yes they will. Any attempt by people of European ethnicity to band together is labeled "racist" and likened to the KKK. If the members are male then they are accused of being sexist and racist. It's part of the memeplex that Male Europeans are evil and responsible for all the worlds ills. The progressive left has been working feverishly to add "Christian" to the list of socially unacceptable group memberships.
"black entertainment television". What are you saying?
See, you just generalized all of africa as a continent. It's not at all about countries or nationalities. It IS about race, and race is, in most peoples mind, skin color. Sad but true.
The fact that you think all African cultures are one and the same shows your own ignorance. Africa is just as politically diverse as Europe.
"Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come."
These outside subs will never learn. For every "you go, white knight!" pat on the head they get from feminists and knights, there are 10 other currently sexually frustrated men reading the post (i.e., lurking) and going, "What's The Red Pill?"
Haven't these fuckers learnt that there is no such thing as "bad publicity"?
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The reason why it's hated so much by women is not so much to do with men improving themselves, it's because trp teaching men not to become beta-orbitors.
Orbitors are the self-esteem fix that many women need to function without having a complete breakdown. Without someone to whisper them that they are the victims and they can do no wrong, they face a very unforgiving world.
This is what is scary to them.
I wonder if the validation they get from men is different 'feeling' than that from the women in their social circle.
Of course it has a ton more meaning to them. Women are always giving false compliments to each other as a kind of group therapy.
A man hanging on her every word without her offering anything in return is a much bigger boost to her ego.
Apparently getting regular sex as a female and being somewhat confused about a relationship you're in because you lack the agency to seek out what you want is somehow tantamount to the rejection, confusion and depressions males face because everything in life they were taught about women is wrong.
But you can't just hog all those alimony payments to yourself you sexist shithead /s
If you read most critique that TRP recieves that includes more than a few words, you'll notice that people usually give you guys that credit. However it is overshadowed by the ridiculous PUA tactics and misogynist noise.
Yeah, sometimes I can't seem to get over just how much I hate all things female. I was assembling a hydraulic system just the other day and couldn't finish it because the female hose adapters were disgusting me too much.
Oh yes, because no man ever would eeeever be guilty of hyperbole.
You started it, dickcheese.
What's noise and what's not depends on the observer. Depending on how far you are on a path things will be signal or noise.
I originally came here after reading some highly up voted feminist dribble that ended with basically "and that's why trp is bad". My immediate thought was " I need to get in on this". This emsk post is exactly the same thing.
So often in life, philosophy that attracts the most social villification is the very stuff that deserves a closer look because there's some truth in it.
The truly worthless philosophies end up mostly ignored, and rarely provoke the kind of hyperemotional backlash we saw yesterday on EMSK.
Feminism is our cancer and we are theirs.
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The way I see it, feminism is over. Woman are treated pretty damn fucking equal. The woman that traditionally would call themselves feminists don't anymore. THEY ARE ENJOYING THEIR EQUALITY.
Whiney stupid bitches still use the term as a cover for their hate of men. They like to cover their hate with a thin veil of intellectualism. We should try to be above this and simply look out for ourselves.
That is what TRP is about, self-interest. Let's not devolve into group-think and start crusading against some "cancer" that doesn't even exist in a tangible form.
There are some good woman out there, and some you need to avoid.
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I understand if you disagree, I just see both of your comments as being a form of group think.
We should shy away of labeling a group of women as "feminists", it implies there is another group of "non feminists".
I reject this. Judge a woman as an individual, recognize her as a human being acting on her own self interest, and be sure to act on your own. It is up to you to have power in the relationship and use it in a responsible way that benifits you both. Doesn't mean doing whatever she wants mind you, it means demonstrating the value listening to you brings to her.
aw, you guys are giving it all away...
Its not like we want to stop them...
For every supplicating blue pill beta we pull off the market for post-wall, 35+ with kids females who ride the carousel in their 20's (who are depending on a slew of betas to choose from), the more we fuck up the feminist ideal. They (foolishly) thought they could "change the game" in their favor with no reaction from men. We seek to wreak havoc on that ideal.
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Humans have been terrible at wisening up to these facts for millenia. Seriously, philosophers before Christ were complaining about how we never learn. We never learn. (as a species and as large groups, not as individuals)
They're always going to want us as the enemy so that they can point at us and do the whole "I'm not like them" schtick.
I think traditionally feminism was about woman doing what we are doing, looking out for themselves. No issue with that.
The issue is now that there is equality, they want MORE. They want men to be subservient, and this is unacceptable. The key is to stand your ground, not to wreak havoc.
Avoid the group-think, seek after rational self interest.
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If Tyson chicken suddenly had a huge outbreak of salmonella in their products would you be frothing at the mouth to go buy a bag anytime soon? There is in fact such a thing as bad publicity.
This is a highly uprated and gilded comment in that thread by /u/Bananafarmers
I AM A WOMAN! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!
Her comment pretty much confirms RP theory
And while she is "thanking" OP for making her "feel better", she is NOT fucking OP. She fucked the RP ex-bf. RP theory confirmed.
Again, cut away all the bullshit. We are here for sexual strategy. Noting more. We aren't here to make girls "feel better about men, and helping them figure out how to take care of themeslves better in the next relationship". That's Beta Bucks.
I read the first four words and stopped reading it altogether. I know better than that now.
I had never heard of this before today, glad I know now.
Stick around. It's not a theory and it need not be proven. We are all far better equipped than the average man who is born into guilt and copes with it by throwing the rest of us under the bus.
One cannot be a man until he learns to stop disassociating himself with the rest of us.
"TRP is not a social movement aimed at changing society, TRP is about empowering the individual man to be the best person he can possibly be."
This is too true.
TRP critics use this sub as a scapegoat for their own accountability and failures, attempting to coalesce an idea of many relationship ills that are, supposedly, caused by TRP philosophy.
The level of hostility this sub experiences is quite enlightening: Never have I seen an idea, that empowers men to improve their being, trigger such vitriol littered with fallacies.
Seduction is generally slimy and a much easier target to criticize from a beta-feminist agenda, but their motives are clear. TRP touches upon too many truths that an excessive number of individuals would rather disregard.
I think this surge in membership will mark the point of time that turns this introspective philosophy into a mainstream idea- hopefully, maintaining its core ideas without too much dilution.
We could, we just don't give enough of a shit to wrap it in a pretty pink bow, like the OP from that EMSK post did.
Why the fuck would you want this to go mainstream?
The less supplicating betas there are, the faster women will have to get their shit together if they want a man at all.
I'd say straight up that I believe in Unicorns and True LoveTM. Even considering today's superficial society.
It's a shame that most women don't really believe. They prove again and again that men are the more romantic sex.
Grand romantic gestures, poetry, epic novels about romance... all by men.
The most romantic thing a woman has ever done for me was cook me bacon without being asked to. I married that woman.
Well, on behalf of all the men here, I thank you for setting the bar high for us.
Boobs, Blowjobs, and Bacon. The three B's that make everything right with the world
I think sex and sandwiches has it's merits as well, but for some reason people don't like the SS.
Probably because of gluten free diets
I'll still take the first S though.
Maybe replace it with Sex and Steak....Everyone would love the SS then
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Hah we might get 60k subs by the end of tommorow, thanks to whomever started that shit I guess
60K subs achieved. Also go f*** yourself you stupid bot.
Having read the EMST post I have to say; it is very likely the guy knew exactly what he was doing.
His post is like describing candy to someone who has never had any, and then telling them to stay away from candy because it is low in nutritional value and not good for you. But if does make you wide awake and gives you a lot of energy to enjoy life.
Surprise, surprise, everyone wants candy!
While i enjoy the fact that their is yet another surge in membership (and appreciate the irony that it came due to someone mentioning how wrong it is) Its going to be important to keep the sub on track.
Seems like good subs always go to shit after they get too many members and id hate to see that happen here. There have been a little too many "revenge-porn" esque posts recently and i hope quality doesnt deteriorate.
On another note, thank you mods for all the thankless work you put in.
Not on my watch!
guys getting the anger out of heir system is part of the process. some guy get here so furious and disillusioned wih women they cant evn think about having any sort of ammcable relationship with women, until they bleed the anger out of their systems. its sorta like prial screaming or breaking things as forform of therapy.
Perhaps a flair that's stronger than rant for that?
nah. the sort of people who dont understand this without having it spelled out for them, well we're probably better off without dense cunts like that.
Actually, I've been genuinely impressed with the amount of quality posts flowing in from today and yesterday. That EMSK post really stirred up some great topics to discuss.
But let's keep this up.
The post in question was a pandering circle jerk, clearly written to please a large group of subs that already hate on TRP. The sub it was posted is a pathetic joke. It's advice for manhood is fucking absurd, often amounting to shit like "every man should know how to mail a letter". Thanks.
These "oh shit, this post was hugely upvoted" events happen all the time. The crowd who cares about this will seek validation through upvotes. The redpillers will continue to do what we do- get better.
When I read this, I got the same strong feels I got when the membership increased in fight club. TRP might be a huge illusion based on curve fitting in the end (my greatest fear) but I'm hoping it's accurate and plowing on. I now understand where I once felt confusion, see progress where I felt fear. Different culture and different background. TRP holds something of value for nearly everyone.
I rarely login to my account, but I jumped on just to add to the membership spike. I've been lurking this sub for a while.
I forgot how I stumbled onto this subreddit, but I realized a lot of the views line up with my own. I was served a valuable lesson a few years ago and happened to find my way here.
A few years ago, I made the mistake of a of "falling in love" with a gold-digging parasite. Almost immediately after getting married, she started withholding sex, trying to spend all of my money, and just generally acting like a cunt ... especially towards my family. She was in school, had no money and quit her job, drove a Jeep that I bought, and carried a credit card I gave her (with a low limit thankfully). Shit kept going downhill and I suspected she was cheating. I was right ... so I divorced her. Fortunately, I kept all of my assets separate and protected. It took her a while to realize how screwed she was and she wasn't getting shit. She then had the audacity to try and blackmail me for $100k. (We were only married 8 months). I was actually being civil up until that point, so I responded to her threats by throwing all of her shit in storage and changing my locks. I got my Jeep back, too. Oh, and no kids ... despite her trying to 'have an accident'. This is the cliff notes version ... the whole story is beyond insane.
So, I've reverted to my original school of thought. Live life for your own happiness, not solely to please others. I worked hard and spent a lot of time earning 2 degrees and a doctorate. I built and sold a successful business before I was 30 ... and I almost pissed all of that away by throwing all my trust into someone who just wanted a payday. I'm still learning something new when I read this subreddit. As I learn, I hope my experiences can contribute back.
Also, I don't want to come across as someone that hates women. I had to learn a lot of lessons from dealing with an extremely shitty person. TRP has helped me understand some of the "why?" questions I had.
Holy shit man, last time I glanced the sub was at 42k.
It didn't jump that much. It was at 57k I think yesterday and over 59k now. That's still a big jump for a medium sized sub.
The insane thing is that the post over there was awarded 52 reddit golds lol
Nothing like a nice strawman bonfire.
I've been sitting here browsing for three hours and the sub has grown tens of twenties every time I hit refresh. I am really looking forward to seeing the total number of new users resulting from the EMSK post. It's gonna be at or above 2k for sure.
I should probably get some sleep...
Kinda feel like r/theredpill should all pitch in and buy this guy a lifetime of gold.
"Thanks for getting the word out!"
I am a middle class average American man who changed my life with RedPill knowledge.
I WAS pigeonholed into being a trash worker all my life until REDPILL logic.
There are MILLIONS of us and we will no longer accept our role as meaningless male providers and bitches to society.
Stop letting society tell you what woman you can and cannot have relations with!
WE WILL OVERCOME MEDIOCRITY AND DISPOSABILITY
I read that earlier, I couldn't even finish. Its like he wants to be a victim, he acknowledges that women use sexual strategy over us but we shouldn't because its wrong. Fuck that beta shit, I have a girlfriend that does as I wish, acknowledges that I am in control of the relationship, and likes it.
It's a meme to hate TRP now, I think. Sort of like how Milhouse couldn't be a meme: TRP is allowed to exist here for a reason--to get men to drop out. It's not as if there aren't incentives already, but this sub is to serve as the inception point.
You want the true redpill? Your corporate and government masters don't want stable families any more. They especially don't want you to have one. Stable families have passed the point of usefulness for them because having a strong family makes a man harder to control than just being a guy who bangs whomever he wants and thus can be moved to any place in the machine where he best serves his purpose.
Want the true redpill? Live with traditional morals, and keep your eyes wide-fucking open. Observe, but don't engage. Pass through.
That means that if you want a wife and kids, you find a girl, vet her hard, and do it the way they did it back in the day. Reading here for help controlling behavior and keeping a strong relationship is fine, but don't be a curl-bro with your red pill exercises, build functional strength and put it to use.
At this stage in the game, if your protoplasm makes it to the next round, you've beaten the system. It's currently designed to breed you out.
Do you have any evidence that a married father is harder to control than a bachelor? Doesn't having a wife and children to support and a mortgage to pay make you easier to manipulate in terms of distributing your wealth and labor?
That and a man with wife and kids spends far more than a single man.
Holy shit can I ever confirm that....65% disposable income --> 5% disposable income.
I get where you're going, and it's valid, but here's how I see it different: if you're a married man, you have a wife that may not even need to work. That's one less worker, one less cog in the machine.
If you're a married man, you're eventually going to protest against overtime, and so (especially) is your wife. That's two cogs with fewer teeth. Both of your are less useful to the machine as labor.
If you're a married man and you have kids, you (hypothetically) should actually give a damn about what's going on in your community. This means standing in the way of certain vices. You're also (let's face it) not going to consume as much media or porn, and you and your wife pooling assets into a household actually offsets a lot of extra consumption.
If you're a married man, you're going to fight for a future for your kids, who (believe it or not) actually stand a good chance in competition with with the kids of the elites, and can take their lunches because the children of nobility are seldom well-suited to govern (Marcus Aurelius).
Are you tied down to a shitty job? Yes, if you have a shitty, materialistic wife and you're not an entrepreneur. Don't have a shitty wife though, and be an entrepreneur.
TLDR; the true redpill is oldschooled.
I've read multiple stories about places like food co-ops and organic farms getting raided by SWAT teams for silly fucking reasons.
The government (partially through collusion with private companies) don't want people growing their own food, living off the grid, becoming self sufficient. They lose tax money, companies lose profits, etc.
Having a traditional wife is part of that narrative, and is also disadvantageous to big businesses because:
1) less need for modern products, as you have a wife taking care of shit at home
2) fewer workers, wages go up, since the women are at home
3) fewer people buying useless shit, profits go down, since women buy more useless shit than men.
Clothing markups are some of the biggest, as they're all made for cents in child sweatshops and then sold through brand names. Guess who buys more unnecessary brand name clothes.
If you're a cog in the machine, then both you and your wife are going to need to work in order to scrape at the lifestyle portrayed as ideal.
Not to attack you personally but if you think a typical married man is going to consume less pornography, I don't think your vision of marriage is congruent with what is he norm these days.
If the government was not interested in stable families, then why are there so many tax breaks for couples and parents?
Exactly. You have to find a girl that doesn't share that ideal. My dad did really well with my mom because she's fine with quitting work to raise a family and living in a smaller house with a lower mortgage and driving a used car.
Once again, the problem is with what the 'norm' is. If you have a marriage like my folks, you gon' be fuckin' on the reg.
Except family courts. But really, you got me with the tax breaks thing. I don't have an answer for that one.
I think if the ideal sort of marriage you were talking about was widely available, we'd be mostly agreeing here. Sadly such situations seem to be increasingly difficult to come across, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Those who set the norm control the world.
Look at vaccinations. Look at fluoride. Look at the drug war.
List goes on.
married men often have mortgages aka 25 years 'commitments' to keep paying the bills! that's why banks love 'marriage'
Mortgages are only necessary in the US since women entered the workforce and since 1933 when the gold standard was completely abandoned.
Now there is a surplus of workers desperate for any scraps available. Wages have remained somewhat static, whereas the price of housing has skyrocketed, partially due to the housing bubble but mostly due to the rampant hyperinflation caused by derivatives trading, fractional reserve banking and quantitative easing (banks inventing new money and loaning it out to governments at interest, who then give that money straight back to smaller subsidiaries of the larger banks free of charge).
The federal reserve bank is a privately owned corporation.
This is all by design.
pardon? AFAIK 'mortgages' have been around,, as long as any loan that required collateral!
The term 'mortgage' comes from the french word which means 'dead pledge' aka "on deaths terms"
As for the rest of your comments, I agree completely .... and the 'design' you mention has been 'developing' for at least 160yrs!
And yes, the 'so called' "Federal Reserve" is the extraordinary farce we both know it to be! The Hoodrobins .... robbing the 'hood to make the rich richer!
It's always a pleasure to hear from someone who's aware of this SHIT!
take it easy amigo.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge about the world is passed down from father to son. Break the chain of knowledge, and society is ignorant, blind, and easily controlled.
A family father is usually the only benevolent male influence a boy can have in his life. He will betafied or suicided without it.
I'm really surprised to read this here. This is what it all boils down to. It never was about liberation of women or the oppression of men, it never was a about left or right. It always was and is about power and and control via collectivism.
Thanks for restoring a little bit of hope for sanity in me.
I'm not the only one. Neither are you.
A lot of intelligent people on this sub reddit. I'm not surprised that many TRPers are awake to the NWO's schemes.
I think most of us would refuse to put a name on it like that.
as a more traditionalist catholic member of trp im inclined to agre here. secular modern government hates anything that might split a persons loyalties like game lyand religion. they dont want youloyal to children, and they dont want you nelieving or thinking anything they didnt approve of first.
I was raised protestant, but I think I"m going to end up either hardline catholic, or mormon, just because of how capable both systems are at preserving families.
Liberal Catholics are the worst though. I've seen some crazy hamsters there, and I think you'll agree.
FSSP. Find one. A website with their sermons is www.romans10seventeen.org.
Not ready to swear off women. St. Augustine's prayer comes to mind. :-)
i agree, if i didnt speak spanish and attend a very conservative spansh language congregation, i probably would not be catholic.
The destruction of traditional families and morals have indeed been accelerated intentionally. But this is only natural: ignorant and isolated cultures were easy targets for the more advanced and predatory cultures. If we are all made to be worker bees and no one has a father and therefore don't understand anything about the world, then that benefits the few who do have history, knowledge, and control.
But this was inevitable, and temporary. It's hormesis on humanity overall, which will cause us to be better than before. TRP is a good thing, it's a logical response to the changes that are occurring. It's harsh truth. It kills love, families, and reproduction. We're going to keep pushing forward until TRP is widely known and used, and at some point another adaptation will take place, because TRP is not acceptable. Women will adapt and become desirable again, and those things that TRP killed will start coming back in improved forms. But there will be pain first.
♂
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/AngryBeaverThrownout by vacuu. [History]
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You can't be a tiger in the ocean. The lifestyle you're recommending can't be done in feminized societies, you have to go somewhere else. Otherwise it will just be a futile exercise in rationalization. Unless you can mend society to your will.
I've always had a suspicion that the destruction of the family unit was the main goal behind everything. All the new laws and movements today have been doing a pretty good job of that. Just look at divorce rates, single moms, children growing up without positive family role models who then propagate the lack of family values. Incorporating some of those traditional values would go a long way to turning things around. If you want to see our future, look at the fall of Rome.
Great post. Except for one thing... Millhouse is a meme.
Millhouse will never be a meme.
I just found this sub and I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to take in and use the information here, so far I'm still a bit confused, but I'll tell ya, I'm fuckin sick of women ignoring me.
Here is a step by step guaranteed way to either 1) Get women to notice you or 2) Make you stop caring about them not noticing you.
1) Lift.
2) Read (the rational male and no more mister nice guy if it pertains to you)
3) Eat better and learn how to make your own food. To be a man you need to know the work that goes in behind what you consume, in my opinion.
4) Approach different strangers (women and men) every single day. Have conversations constantly to tackle any anxiety you may have.
5) Find a couple new hobbies that you can do with a male friend or by yourself. I've picked up swimming, bodyweight fitness, hiking, bike riding, cooking & grilling, and learning a language since I fully swallowed TRP.
6) Try to tackle an extremely hard goal that takes a lot of time. For me it was 90 days of nofap. For you it could be building a canoe, or polishing your coin collection, or just about anything.
I still haven't gotten laid since I found TRP but I am so much happier. I used to think about killing myself because of how fucking sad my life was. Now all I can think about is all the new shit I should do every day! If I could find a new job my life would be at the best point it's ever been at.
Are you the me from two months from now?
(Also, you should add the book of pook to that reading list)
it's weird you mention the two months because that's about how long i've been making serious progress. also if you want to talk about anything, literally anything, just hit me up. i could have used a buddy through my progress so im offering that to you
This is slightly off topic, but is it possible to find when you first subscribed to a subreddit? I think it would be really interesting to know when I first subscribed to /r/TheRedPill and see how I've changed since then.
Remember a significant event from then and date it.
That's how I remember it. Day after Christmas 2013 I subbed.
I came in November of 2013. The community felt more close back then. Now it's become broad. Not a bad thing though.
There were 12,000 people here when I found this place. I was reading /r/seduction and some chump was complaining about rper's taking pua to the extreme, and how it was hurting the pua community.
Self improvement is a hell of a gift you can give yourself.
Yep, spent too much time exploring the side bar when I should've been studying for finals a couple semesters ago. It's been quite a ride since then
Started lurking november 2012. One year out from a broken engagement, and I had to get my shit together. TRP gave excellent suggestions, and I am better for having subbed.
I'm going to chime in with what NOPE_CHARLES_TESLA said, in that those little statements that seep out like "women control most communication channels" make this place seem a whole lot more crazy than it actually is.
Come on man, you know thats not true. There's no female conspiracy to make TRP a pariah, but what there are is a whole lot of naive people. We don't need these "us vs. them" statements man.
I'll bite... if only to point out the difference between controlling the communication channel (they don't), and having the channels of communication pander mostly to them (more accurate).
Look around you. The vast majority of shit on TV is probably of little interest to men. Case in point being day time TV which is geared towards housewives who are likely the only people actively watching TV during the day. Then, look at the programming, Oprah, soaps in general, the View, etc. While not day time TV per se, have you ever watched an episode of Coronation St? The men on that show are absolutely retarded as far as women are concerned, as is the majority of males in syndicated publications. Homer is a great example. Is he manly to you? But it's funny. You can go through a ton of the evening time shows as well, and you'll see that masculinity isn't something that's promoted, praised or even looked at in a positive light. At best, the man of the house is the butt of the majority of jokes... Married with Children is another that comes to mind, as everyone knows Al Bundy got shat on regularly, and that was part of the point of the show.
Saying women control media is naive. Men control everything. However, the message being put forward in media is misandrist in nature, especially as feminism has stepped to the fore. We're at the point now where it has been going on for decades... Married with Children and Coronation St are old. The indoctrination started before you were even born, same goes for me, and I would assume the majority of men here.
I'll just continue to extrapolate... indoctrination has been going on for decades, family unit has been effectively broken up by women -needing- to work (it's not an option anymore, 1 average sized income can't do shit for a proper family), children look to their caregivers (mostly women), and the media they see (misandrist in nature) to shape their world view... now we have a bunch of "BP" men, wondering what the fuck is up with women, and TRP to explain it to them. We've all been lead astray by this shit, not just men, women as well. TRP can show you enough studies of how unhappy the general female populace is, despite having access to more resources than ever before, and having the agency to acquire as much resources as they possibly can, with no barrier by their gender (in fact, helped by their genes and the value placed on women in general).
How is it they're so unhappy?
Probably because they were taught to be men, and that's fucking with their feels as they realize that being a man isn't great when you lack a penis and testosterone. Similarly, a bunch of boys get sold up the river with Disney-esque notions that they take into adulthood with them (because few parents are dropping RP wisdom these days -- they do not have time to be parents, and this is the bigger issue) and wonder what the fuck all these Strong Independent Women are doing with their lives.
Aaaand, now we're here.
If you believe that the feminine imperative hasn't weaponized the media, then I really don't know what to tell you. It's important to remember that it's not necessarily women doing these things. Men. Control. Everything. Power has been consolidating for quite some time, so A FEW (relatively speaking) men control everything. An example... all sorts of industries have rules and regulations governing how they interact with the end user/consumer. An industry that's relatively void of these rules and regs? Cosmetics. Obviously, with men controlling everything, this comes down to money. Women make the majority of purchase decisions and we've been shaming them into buying our shit since the beginning of TV... where we sold them all sorts of household appliances to make housewifery easier. We have always... always, pandered to women, at the expense of men, to make a buck.
The more interesting food for thought is why that is... then you get into the family unit and labor and so on.
last edit, I swear: Another "case in point" example... you don't need to go back very far to a time where TV was full of positive male role models. Men who were men, even if it was sometimes in the comical chauvinist sense, which wasn't often because these men were the heart throbs of their day. Women openly went wild for the manly men of the past the same way moms go wild for the sparkly vampires and emo warewolves of recent memory.
I'm the last person you have to convince man. I'm here for a reason, because I swallowed that red pill a long, long time ago. I can definitely see it in the media that I watch.
However, again, I just don't want people here to get into the habit of making these little side comments like women control communication, when it is factually untrue and makes the rest of us sound totally fucking ridiculous for saying. Media is very set on catering to women, but its men behind it. They make their money, and at the end of the day thats all its about.
There's no white conspiracy to keep black people down, either, but it doesn't mean they aren't disadvantaged by many systems.
Women spend more than men. Women consume more than men. Thus, it makes sense that commercials will tend to be more female oriented than male oriented. I wouldn't be surprised if television as a whole was currently more geared toward women than men.
But it doesn't really matter if television is or isn't, because what he said is still right: http://www.rossispeaks.com/archives/11045
Sadly, by and large they're spending money that was earned by men.
Counting on the money you have + the 2nd income some beta bux gives you must be awesome.... too bad I don't see myself getting a sugar mama anytime soon
You must not be familiar with shitredditsays or /r/thebluepill.
You're right that you shouldn't pay attention to them, but there's definitely efforts to get TRP banned.
I stand by what I said 100%. I don't mean to say that women have formed a collectivist thinktank which they're using to take down TRP, specifically. I am simply referring to the fact that women, as individuals, tend to have major problems with TRP's general type of community.
Notice, for instance, the fact that feminists will very commonly use the term "Boys' Club" as a pejorative. As in, "ugh, TRP needs to be taken down, because it's a Boys' Club."
The fact that it's a "Boys' Club" is apparently reason enough for it to have a negative social stigma.
This is something women seem to understand on a basic level: if too many men form an organization of fellow men, said community needs to be either infiltrated or destroyed.
Case in point: video games.
Feminists want gaming, and they want it bad. It's male-dominated, and they're launching their campaign against it. Just look at any of the following:
female host of GDCA
Anita Sarkeesian's videos
deafening outrage at the lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed Unity
The list goes on. It's unfortunate that this wave of bullshit has to roll right up on shore along with the tide of interesting developments in gaming, like VR, gen 8, etc.
Thing is: Video games is a Multi billion dollar operation. You bring feminist Bullshit and I wont buy it. And females don't make up 50% of gamers. They mainly play casual games.
Irrelevant, most buyers are beta anyway, and they swallow the whole "Strong Indipendent Woman protagonist" fully.
Blue pillers love to swallow indeed
I believe the term "Boy's Club" is supposed to refer to hiring practices in the work place that make it harder for women to get higher level jobs because the men have an "understanding" or something. I'm not 100% on all the factors involved, but I don't think the pejorative "Boy's Club" label applies to TRP.
The hiring practice thing is a subset of feminists' "Boys' Club" complaint, yes.
But more broadly, feminists call any organization consisting mostly of men to be a "Boys' Club", and then go on to complain that this "Boys' Club" is problematic in some way. The reasoning, IIRC, basically boils down to that if you let too many men get together and don't let enough women into the circle, those men will start causing problems for women.
That's how TRP is a "Boys' Club" - it's all men, and since we're (supposedly) abusing and raping women or whatever, we're "problematic" in the same way your hypothetical employment situation would be problematic.
I'm having a hard time finding a specific definition of a "Boys' Club," but I'll get back to you if I find one.
We are problematic because we are the evolved answer against radical feminism. Maybe even more so then /r/Mensrights which also have a problem with us. The feminist problem is, that their huge amount of Bullshit opens an eye in many males. And when they find us, we open the other eye.
Men's rights has an issue with us? That's amusing
The real explanation reaches further back. Back in the day females couldn't survive on their own if they didn't belong to some tribe. One of their strongest instinctive drives is to be in the community. This is why they're so keen on their status within the community and this is why they can't bear to be left out of some group.
Look at when women talk among themselves. There is almost zero information content. Primarily it's about being reassured that they are still accepted by the group, and then their current status in the group (crab basket).
Here you go. The original term is apparently Old Boy's Club, or Old Boy's Network. It's specifically in reference to hiring practices and networking advantage. It has nothing to do with men gathering on an internet forum. Pretty sure feminists don't give a shit how many men might be gathered in a room. I'm pretty sure they don't like TRP because they view the message here as possibly harmful misinformation.
This is certainly where the term originated. That doesn't mean that the definition of the term hasn't branched out to include new forms of what a "Boys' Club" can entail.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/everyday-sexism-feminisms-new-wave-fight-against-britains-boys-clubs-1445249
http://thisrecording.com/today/2011/2/22/in-which-we-teach-you-how-to-be-a-woman-in-any-boys-club.html
http://www.redditlog.com/snapshots/776861
More generally, many feminists seem to use the term "Boys' Club" simply to describe an environment where there are too many men and not enough women.
It is indeed in their nature but they do not call the shots. Your claim that they "control" the media is just not substantiated.
IF we are going to ask which identifiable group controls the largest share of the media, it is Jewish men.
This is a confirmable fact, 2, unlike your assertion that women do.
Copypasta'd from a previous comment I made: The demand creates the supply, not vice versa.
If people suddenly decide en mass that they like anchovies as a pizza topping, and Papa John's responds by offering more anchovy options on their pizzas, who is ultimately is responsible for Papa John's actions?
The people are. Papa John merely makes what he thinks people want. So, in this way, people do "control" what products Papa John puts out by voting with their dollars.
So it is with the media. They can't just describe the world exactly as it is - that would be morbidly depressing. They have to present information about the world to the people exactly as they, the people, want to hear it. And what people want to hear, apparently, is exactly what we've been talking about here: appeasement to women, minorities, etc, with political correctness.
You're making some highly unlikely assumptions:
That television and radio are not heavily regulated by long captured bureaucracies, unlike pizza shops.
Secondly, assuming the media is unaffected by outside influences (most apparent is via ad money) and has no ideological agenda outside of getting the most viewers.
Thirdly, that the media is limited to saying what people want to hear and is incapable of shaping people's wants and beliefs through repeated exposure and other propagandizing techniques. Even Papa John will entice you to order new products with commercials, thereby shaping your tastes. It is practically the entire business model of television.
There is a lot more to it than "women control the media." And who is more powerful and influential? An average viewer or filthy rich, well-connected players at the top of the handful of media empires in this country?
Very true. You don't deserve the downvotes you are getting.
They control the media in the sense of being the largest and most profitable media audience. Just like customers control the prices and quality of goods by choosing to buy or not by them.
Yes, this is very simplified.
You're fucking retarded if you think there's no female agenda to make TRP a pariah. Have you ever heard of Jezebel? Have you ever read any of the cultural marxism over at Slate, the Atlantic, or the Daily Beast?
People like Amanda Hess derive their salaries entirely from efforts at making TRP-esque arguments socially unacceptable.
You know whats crazy? The first thing you mentioned was Jezebel. I only heard of Jezebel because this place linked it.
Just because these barely relevant publications hold these views don't mean there are small titted women behind a keyboard saying "we're gonna get these guys!". You can go ahead, put your tinfoil hat on and think you've finally figured out the matriarchy, but you can leave sensible people the fuck out of it.
Dude for what it's worth (and I agree with you) Gawker (owns Jizzabel) is absolutely huge. And yes, the legitimately consider TRP/PUA/any manosphere stuff their actual enemy. It's no conspiracy, but it is good business. Those rage clicks pay the bills.
Define "barely relevant".
It ranks higher than msnbc.com on Alexa, and has an estimated 3x the audience of MSNBC.
It has more visitors than the Drudge Report.
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I can definitely get behind that. And you highlighted another point: the men behind it these narratives.
This sub is certainly destructive in the sense that it can blind people. Sure, women want this narrative to continue. But there are smart males in control of it all who just want to make that money, and who can really hate on it? I sure as fuck would.
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If you would like to do the same, add the browser extension GreaseMonkey to Firefox and add this open source script.
Then simply click on your username on Reddit, go to the comments tab, and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top.
Women all know Jezebel. It's not like you go out talking to TRP to your female friends right? Jezebel works the same, the girls don't discuss it with you.
I just asked a girl I'm seeing if she has ever heard of Jezebel, and she responded with "its just a bunch of slutty articles about slutty women". The other one (a typical college girl that I see from time to time) responded to my text with "lol what is that".
Not all women are feminists man, and I say that living in close proximity to UC Berkeley.
So... she has heard of it and read it.
If anybody asks me about TRP, that is my standard answer...
I hope this isn't true. But regardless it's pretty funny in retrospect.
You must not be friends with very many women.
Bitches post links to Jezebel on my facebook feed constantly.
Then I suggest you meet some new bitches.
I don't associate with any of these feminist polyamory whatever types in my area, and you better believe this is the most liberal section of the country you can think of.
Feminist polyamory? Never saw that in Jezebel articles...
I live in Austin, libtard central.
Almost the only time I see Jezebel links is on twitter, where I follow a random selection if amusing and interesting folk. Facebook? Maybe once or twice a month, and always from the same four or five people.
Jezebel is a Gawker media site. You may not have heard of them specifically, but I'm sure you've heard of at least one of Gizmodo, Kotaku, io9, Jalopnik or Fleshbot.
Dude, there are a ton more people who read Jezebel than read redpill and all of PUA put together. Read a lot of mainstream media and you will see Jezebel get linked or talked about occasionally. Links to Redpill or PUA sites NEVER show up on mainstream news sites.
Jezebel gets 12 million unique visits a month, roughly 1/3 the entire traffic reddit receives. It's a very, very popular site.
Don't fall into the ignorant mindset that not haven't heard of something makes it unpopular.
Jezebel is huge! Look at its page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Jezebel Almost half a million likes. Half my female friends follow it (and even one or two of my feminist male friends).
The really big one is The Guardian. It's like a machine pumping out these feminist articles. Jessica Valentia alone has a daily column, plus dozens of other writers.
Stop looking for a "conspiracy theory" when there isn't one being pushed. There is such a thing called mass movement where many people act toward the same end, but independently. No one said there is a conspiracy, just a society that doesn't tolerate RP thinking. If you don't understand that, head on over to the redpillwomen sub and read some of the reactions RP women get when they dare to speak their minds to BP women. They get the same treatment from this feminist, gyno-centric culture.
I definitely see that society isn't wholly receptive to the RP message. I get that through and through, most importantly in life.
However, I stand by my original statement. Women don't "control most communication channels" and anyone who glosses over that statement and goes "yeah, definitely" is who I'm talking to.
Feminine values dominate Western Civilization in 2014. From daycare, to k-12 school, to universities, to the workplace. The economy is geared toward selling to women because they spend most of the money. Marketing is laden with gyno-centric perspectives and messages. Movies, newspapers, magazines, and web traffic is geared toward appeasing female sensibilities, and they are making inroads in the video game market. The very concept of censorship, of NSFW and NSFL tags, to signing in for particular youtube content, to age-restrictions on movies and tv shows, is a feminine communication ploy for control.
Do WOMEN themselves control this apparatus? They don't have to. In the same way that a family court judge can be a man, but the institution itself is misandrist by design. Wake up, Western Civ is a matriarchy where all men are presumed rapists and child abusers. It is portrayed and copied a thousand times a day, rippling through the entire culture. At a certain point it doesn't need to be stated or argued, just referenced; merely hinted at. To me, that implies something actually worse than control (which can be taken away). It demonstrates complete saturation.
I don't buy it, not at all. Western civilization is becoming more feminine by the day, and many aspects of our entire civilization is entirely misandrist. I can buy that. But don't tell me to wake up just because you think that because you couldn't watch horror movies as a child without an adult present that theres a feminine conspiracy.
You still don't get it. It's not a conspiracy, it's a mass movement. It's a paradigm shift at the societal level. A conspiracy is a small group of people who have secret access or knowledge/power that are controlling something. A mass movement is the opposite.
If you don't believe me, just look at the Men's Rights movements events that have been threatened with violence for holding seminars. The advocates (some of them women) shouted down viciously for stating the facts. Facts have no place in the current zeitgeist. This goes deeper than just sexual strategy, it goes to the fundamental understanding of reality. It's certainly not a conspiracy.
feminist organizations have been able to lean on billion dollar companiesto have content taken off the air or writers and producers hired and fired to accomodate their interests. its like a trade union for twat.
If you have some credible links (I found only one instance of this, and it was on RoK. Good enough for me, not good enough for credibility though in the academic sense) I would be happy to admit I'm wrong and change my opinion to the factually correct one. I'm not arguing on emotion here.
What I am saying, is that a sub full of people who drop these passerby little statements like "its a trade union for twat" are operating on hearsay, and the rest of us look like neckbeards for it.
You don't need an organized cabal in order to have control. Feminist control of the media isn't control in the sense of top-down management, it's control through aligned interests. If you've ever read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, it's the same sort of control the military-industrial complex the government have over the corporate news media. They can't say "publish this" or "don't report that" but the outlets are well aware of what would or wouldn't be kosher to publish.
totally in agreement man, it's like 99% of what's said on here is great and then that 1% of fringe conspiracy/women-hating that gives the haters ammunition
I wish I would have read this post before trying to explain how inaccurate those posts were. Karma lost, lesson learned.
Remember, just act TRP but don't actually use any RP terms and go on with your awesome lives.
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When you see something that doesn't belong, such as off topic posts like the on you described, please report them. We have q brand new sub for stuff like that in order to keep the main sub on point.
Not only do some of them think it's a good thing, but some of them are actually trying to make the image more acceptable.
Has one less upvote than you at the time of writing.
I personally delete anybody trying to make trp more pc. fuck that.
And we all thank you for it.
There's a difference between trying to infest it with PC bullshit and trying to tone down the craziness in favor of intelligent discourse. Statements like his are just noise.
None of us want this place to be a "safe environment" but cutting back on the redneck rhetoric won't harm the discussion nearly as much as it'll aid it.
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I'm pretty sure I just did. That's not the fucking point, and you don't have to come swinging your sword in here about it.
Thank you for this.
Yes, I think that things like this post really do more good than bad for TRP.
Look at the sub increase from it in less than 24 hours alone.
No one that was here left because of this writeup. People joined instead. That is a good thing.
My problem with these types of spikes in subs is that you have a lot of dumb fucks who join thinking the silly shit reddit says is what TRP is about and then they become the new poster childs to why TRP is bad, the fact that we had to seperate the TRPgaming into a different sub shows that sometimes the subs aren't always the best thing. I like seeing this sub grow it's like justiceporn, but all i honestly see is stuff about picking up chicks, and pussypass stories, I want to see more about being a better man in general. I know it's not what everyone is interested in that but I am, I have a hard time picking up women but after that I'm fine, it's something I've learned TRP can't help me with, but I feel being better all around can help change some of that.
I feel that we get a lot of posts exactly as you've just said, "I went to the bar and picked up", this sort of theme is very prevelant in the FR posts, and I don't believe it's particularly interesting.
What's good is FR threads about how a man actually changed his life outside of getting his dick wet, how he took up hobbies, and became passionate about real shit, or how he developed stronger social skills and used them to excel within his job, I feel that the same old "I got laid last night" FR posts are boring and just breed more of the same shit.
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I'm new here as well. Only been to this subreddit once before months ago, for like 5 minutes. That EMSK post reminded me of this sub. I'm currently post-breakup with my "oneitis", I had very strong feelings for her and basically lost control of myself, giving it to her. Add to this that I'm going through a flat line because I'm participating in /r/NoFap and let's just say the sex hasn't been that great for her so she left me. Today, I visited this sub once again and read through quite a few articles in the sidebar and it once again reminded* me of what I so quickly forgot the moment we started dating (* reminded because I've already spent time learning PUA and RSDTyler really thoroughly goes over the information found here).
Welcome back and enjoy your stay.
This is what I love about trp, that took you what? A few hours here?
See the idea of TRP is good, but a lot of it is torn apart by people who either take it to far or people who reject its idea completely.
Men should be stoic, but not 100% emotionless.
Men should be assertive, but don't completely turn into a full on asshole.
Men should be confident, but don't act like a fool.
Everything in moderation.
What's with all this "should" business, here and elsewhere? People-not just men-should just be who they are or who they want to be, within reason, and not worry about what some group on the internet says they "should" be like. Those "shoulds" can't possibly encompass all personality types, male or otherwise.
You can do whatever you want obviously, but don't forget that this is an advice group for men.
In other words, the 'should' part applies to men who are following TRP, not for other men who don't.
It has been very interesting to watch. The mod team are masters of manipulating infamy. Many of the posters have amazing insight into all sorts of things too.
If newbie's with an intellectual inclination read this I recommend checking out Whisper's, IllimitableMan's, and surprisingly GayLubeOil's stuff particularly. Whisper was IMO originally the most interesting, but I haven't seen anything great from him in a few months. Looking at his page he's stuck in video games or some shit like that. A lot of other poster's are really perceptive too, but those are the posters who's names really stood out to me.
I've only been here since August or something though, so I shan't advise before then.
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Agreed, except for his use of the word "ratio".
And don't forget the sidebar!
i like offensive_brutes comments here. hes pretty insightful when hes not trolling other subs.
What works will keep working and people will still find it, regardless of any "crusade" against it.
TRP is just one response against all the misandry that is out there, divorce rates going through the roof, every man unhappy with his situation be it a father who is unhappy with his LTR, a BP, a Beta and so on will relate to this sub and start changing his life.
some people will come here just because we ar hated on so hard by the main stream, kinda like how Eminem became more popular the more the lgbt and feminists and ews pundits bitched about him, and then when they finally stoppedcomplaining his fanbase died down pretty quickly.
Those who are uninterested in self improvement need not stick around and shall not be missed. This ain't a popularity contest and we ain't selling records.
i know. but some people cant resist a good underdog counter culture. i firmly believe thats why we have so many pro lgbt atheists here on reddit, and why on reddit we have a small faction of anti lgbt faith militant. one is the counter to what is the status quo in thereal world and the other is counter to what is the status quo here on reddit.
I guess it is true. Any publicity is good publicity.
Thanks for the free advertising, /u/talshar, not that we needed it.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
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Are mods prepared for this?
That post was gilded 58 times?!? What?
I also came here from that post, still not sure what im looking at but just wanted to chime in.. Infamous or famous, you still become famous. Which explains the membership spike _. The problem is when they stop talking, so keep them talking.
This post and all the support in the comments started my day off. Coincidentally my day is now made. Great work TRP! keep it up!
So.... What you're saying is there's 1,206 new competitors out there...
Considering the total amount of people subscribed to TRP is 59,000 ~, that's not much of a difference if you're worried.
So ... anyone has that link he's talking about? the 'EMSK post'?
When I first subscribed too this sub we had 3-5k members, never really took another look until now, almost 60k. Good work, let the word spread. Also interesting, I clicked on the link to the sub and now its gone, does anyone have a copy for the thread?
White knighting doesn't work. It's that simple. There is no negotiating or meeting the in the middle. Anyone who preaches that rhetorical nonsense is damn fool.
For the new subscribers –
The Evolution of Game: http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/19/the-evolution-of-game/
Whats the difference between this and PUA culture?
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So let me try to get this straight, TRP, is about the meta game and reasoning for game in the first place? I mean I think I get it, /r/Seduction or PUA culture is about the moves, whereas TRP is more about psychology adjustment and discussion given the state of play in the 21st century we find ourselves evolving in?
You got it.
(this post brought to you by the council for defeating the post-length bot)
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I think the concept of "meta game" doesn't encompass it, since PUA is a child of RP wisdom. That is, there are multiple branches from the root of RP: PUA, MGTOW, MRA, Marriage game. RP is a set of knowledge and mind, and with those tools you then pursue different paths based on what you want and how you calculate the related risks/rewards.
I'd go a bit further: RP in and of itself has no morality, inasmuch as Newton's laws or Quantum physics have no morality. Any moral consequences related to RP derive from the use of it, not the RP itself. RP, like its component Hypergamy, doesn't care.
As a female on this subreddit, I've subscribed to see and understand more about how some extreme TRPers see women, and how that opinion is spread. I'm more than willing to admit that some women deserve hatred for what they've done to men, but keep in mind there are a few of us rational chicks out there too.
Please come check out /r/Redpillwomen!
Most of us don't hate women, we are just forced into a corner where we've been betrayed and are seeking to understand why. TRP (and many of the pre-socratic philosophers) outline a world view that allows us to understand the actions of women to a much greater extent than the nebulous word-view of contemporary american culture.
What struck me was that the whole point of the EMSK post was that trp men turn the table and become the emotional abuser instead of the woman. That isn't true at all, but it would be completely impossible to correct that notion in that thread.
Many of us feel that the "bad" kind of feminism with raging hatred towards men or the feeling that women should do everything on their own makes for very unhappy women. Some of us feel that a more traditional approach where the man controls the family and ultimately bears the largest part of the responsibility is a key to more happiness. Of course it requires the man to step up to the plate and stop fooling around. You have to assume the role as a man. You have to become The Lord of the manor and once you do, there will be a kind of peace and harmony that was previously lacking. That is not emotional abuse.
I don't really agree with a good bit of what you are saying, but you're reasonable and rational in your presentation of your viewpoint. I agree that what you describe doesn't really sound like "abuse" and I'm sure that dynamic works for many and is even what some men and women might want in a relationship. But that shoe doesn't fit everyone.
More importantly though, I think what a lot of us non-redpill people have trouble with is that some or many of your fellow subscribers say things that sounds a lot more like abuse than what you describe. A comment I saw a few before yours read "my gf does as I wish and she likes it!" or something to that effect. It's hard as an outside observer to read that and not feel like someone is being taken advantage of in such a relationship. Or the guy is full of shit and just angry. That's the other vibe I get a lot.
Also, I would be able to take it a lot more seriously if so many users didn't give off such a cult-like vibe with all their "enlightenment" talk. Any time some group claims to have "the one truth" that no one else gets, my bullshit radar goes off. Nothing is so black and white (or red and blue, as it were). No one person or group has figured out the big secret to something as big as being alive today in a world full of over 7 billion humans.
Finally, I notice that a lot of people on here say their reason for subbing is because they loved a girl, got their heart broken, and then woke up to their "blue pill" ways and swallowed the red one instead. Many come across as angry and frustrated. I get it. I've been there. I've been cheated on. I've been led on. It sucks. But I've also done the leading on and realized it wasn't even on purpose. It's happened to most of us, male and female alike. But when those things happened to me, I was sad or mad for a bit, and then I moved the fuck on. I didn't need some strategy or tricks, I just needed time to find someone it worked with. So maybe some of the self-improvement stuff could help here, just so long as it's without all the stuff claiming anybody has to be a certain way to really be a this or a that. And if we're going to arrive at the idea that self-improvement is the best or most important part of this sub (this seems to be some people's opinion, at least) why have the red pill at all? Why not just visit the countless self-improvement subs with all the positivity and none of the bullshit?
Sorry for the wall of text.
Here's a question for you. If you flipped the genders (a girl saying "my bf does what I want and he likes it") would you feel he's being taken advantage of? Would you feel he's being abused? Or would you feel something more along the lines of "that guy really cares about his gf's needs"?
If the latter, why does the idea of a man getting what he wants from his SO make you think of abuse, yet the opposite is deemed positive? And why would you automatically presume a woman choosing to do what a man wants means she's being abused or taken advantage of?
As usual, I was on mobile, so I did a poor job of getting that quote's point across or even finding it to properly quote. It was more about how he said it and the spirit behind the remark that made it seem like someone is being used. I've seen that type of comment multiple times where a guy is boasting about having a woman wrapped around his finger and he'll just walk if she acts up. That doesn't sound like someone who gives much of a shit about the other person.
It's also the posts that literally compare how to treat your woman to training a dog and using positive and negative reinforcement like you would with an animal to get desired behavior. I don't think I should have to describe why that sounds fucked up to me. I realize these are not necessarily the majority viewpoints here, but they always get upvotes and comments of praise. These users do represent at least a noticeable percentage of TRP subscribers and they don't help it's negative image on much of Reddit. Simply communicating effectively has worked great for me, but both parties have to be willing. Perhaps that's the hard part. But I don't need to "break" anyone to get things I want from them.
I guess I just don't understand the mentality I see a lot where someone seems to say "I was treated like shit by this one woman (or a few women), so I guess I should just treat all women like shit too from now on." But I suppose I can understand how some guys might get to that point, it's just unfortunate.
To me, it should be obvious that a lot of women are shitty. Of course they are. Because a lot of people are shitty. I can't pretend like most men aren't too. It's just people.
And to answer your question (sorry it took so long), I certainly wouldn't assume some guy who bends over backwards for his GF is just giving her what she needs or deserves if he does it without reciprocation. If it's all him, then that girl's using him.
Don't worry about the wall of text. Here's mine. It's going to be long too.
It's very hard for a single person to work with scientifically viable data, since your sample will never amount to anywhere near the whole or even a representative part of the female population.
Having said that, I do draw some of my conclusions out of personal experience, which probably explains why there is so much disagreement in the world about things. Some people consider it proof that global warming doesn't exist if they experience an unseasonably warm summer!
So, taking my personal experience with a grain of salt, I've come to realise that much of what is implied here on TRP seems to be true. People often say things "click" when they start reading these forums and often that click is all that is needed to convert someone, like in the case of global warming. If you were to experience a cold summer instead and someone told you the theory of global warming, everything would "click" in much the same way and you would possibly convert to their point of view. You would be doing it for the wrong reason of course, but maybe it's smart to follow your intuition, as long as you keep an open mind.
That's what I try to do with TRP: I have lots of anecdotal evidence as well as evidence based on personal experience and it feels stupid not to pursue that. I'm never extreme in any point of view, so I don't feel there is any risk to trying it out.
I've been in two 10 year relationships, both of which failed according to the same pattern: the other part lost romantic interest in me after a while, as well as seemingly lost interest in intimacy. One common denominator was that I subscribed to the so called "disney model" of relationships with a princess and a prince charming that would cater to every whim of his princess. I would bend over backwards thinking that if I ever became the true prince charming and a true gentleman, my girlfriend would reach the peak of her passion. It seems I was tragically wrong about that. I didn't get angry, because I'm a problem solver by nature, so I just started thinking about and looking for other explanations.
Funny thing is, I almost always solve every problem I face, but I couldn't solve this one. Then I ran into the TRP sub and started reading up. They provided a solution to my problem: "why do women lose interest in me, even though I'm a perfect white knight?" and the answer was outrageous: "because white knighting is the OPPOSITE of what women truly want, but they would never say that because first of all they don't even consciously know it and second of all, if everyone knew, women would be at a serious disadvantage weeding out the best partners".
Here's the recipe for clicking, cult like following, mind-blowing enlightenment: Describe a problem that almost every man has witnessed. Provide a solution that is outrageous, offensive to the mainstream, addresses (almost) all the questions in a convincing way. Sprinkle it with a little conspiracy theory ("here's the trick women don't want you to know") and bam!, you have a dedicated community. Oh, and I almost forgot: the fact that TRP claims to solve the age old question of "what do women want?" is also so outrageous in its boldness that it alone serves to attract a lot of people.
I changed how I approached women and "unfortunately" I was already in a relationship so I couldn't seriously test out the theory, but I tested it with the woman I was with and this was the final piece of the puzzle: I started making decisions, informing her of things like what we would eat today and just took charge with a pretty firm hand. Her response was diametrically opposite to what I would've thought a year ago: She responded with contentment, happiness, passion. Now that I think about it, she often complained that every day decisions were hard to make, like a signal to me to take charge. Instead, I always said things like "What would you like to eat today? Do you have anything in mind. Let's both of us say what we would like and then we'll compare and choose the one that feels better". Turns out she doesn't really want a true democracy.
So, this year she wants to go to a specific place for the summer holidays and to emphasise that I'm not a despote, I don't feel my job is to challenge her on that. I don't really care where we go, so my previous self would've let her run the show, since she picked the destination. My new self thinks that my job is to take charge and make our vacation the best it can be. Is it better to rent a car or to go by train? These kinds of decisions are on me and I bear the responsibility if they don't work out.
Many people on here have very black and white opinions and so this list is black and white, even though I encourage everyone to interpret it in shades of grey instead. Here's what is said about women over here:
I'm not into pickup artistry myself and it's been said on numerous occasions that PUA is not what this sub is about. There is an entirely different sub for that.
A very quick response to the above list is that "not all women are like that". Coincidentally, that is a running joke in this sub and we even have an abbreviation for it: NAWALT, because so many people have said it before and most of them come to realise at a later point that the one woman they held to a heigher standard actually was just like the rest. It just took her a while longer to show it.
So, my advice to you is "think about what you read here". Let it linger in your mind. Maybe it will make sense, maybe it won't. Thing is, we don't really care if other people join us or not. Logically, if we have cracked the code for how women function, then there will be more women for us, the less people know what we do. TRP mentality is not really dependent on whether we have a big community or not. Everyone is free to live TRP if they choose to. The reason we are so open about this is that we want to be bros to other bros. We would actually like to share.
My promise to myself is to always keep an open mind and if this all starts to feel wrong for any part involved, I will look for another answer.
I won't be able to really reply with such great detail right now, but first off, I'll say I appreciate you not getting hostile. I have a lot of what I feel are legitimate criticisms of TRP way of thinking, but I like to know I can have a civil discussion with someone who subscribes to it.
I'll mainly just mention a different reply I just did that you might check my comment history for if you have time. It's just a few of my other major problems with what I have seen when I've ventured on here.
The main problem I have with some of what you used to describe women is that they are such blanket statements. You already said you get "NAWALT" all the time, so I'll skip that. But if you replaced "women" with "black people" or some other group, would such blanket statements be fair or representative? People often say "stereotypes exist for a reason", and perhaps there is some truth to that. But TRP "theory," or at least many posts here, certainly shows that not all men are the same and couldn't be described with huge blanket statements.
You admit that you based some of your stance on personal experience and anecdotes. I truly respect that you acknowledge this. In my case, I personally have not found most of your statements to be true in the relationships I have had or pursued. And they ended for reasons that don't fit the common TRP stories I've read. As you said, that has been my personal experience. Shit, in one of those relationships, it was me who lost interest. It was me who didn't love her as much as she loved me. And that wasn't really fair to either of us, but you know how people sometimes need a push to realize they should break it off. It lasted five years before I ended it, and I had really known for a while I couldn't see it all the way to marriage or anything like that.
But it's this exactly that is my point. You, me, and everyone simply experience what we experience and go from there. We are shaped by those experiences, positive and negative. And of course there's also societal and cultural influences. You and I clearly seem to have different things we want out of a relationship (or a partner, maybe?), so it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me to think any two women might also want different things or types of partners in theirs.
I hope you find what you're looking for if you haven't already.
You realize that most people criticizing TRP feel exactly the same way about TRP? Because raging hatred of women is exactly the impression TRP gives.
I do realize that and it's important to look in the mirror at times and perhaps even give the "other camp" the benefit of the doubt. I just see these feminist groups up in arms on facebook because some local newspaper (Iltasanomat) decided to put the gender of a criminal in the title - asking why it's important to specifically mention that the thief was a woman. It's like they are scanning every media outlet with a magnifying glass, waiting to crucify the poor writer who is showing any kind of (usually accidental) incorrectness towards women.
And let me tell you, it feels exhausting to just assume the whole world is against you and so I've often come to the conclusion that these visible feminists don't seem too happy with life and their role. I may be wrong and to be honest, I don't really care. I care about the woman who's part of my family and she seems happy. I'm not blind and if I ever thought I was doing her harm, I would change my ways, but for now, she seems fine and a lot better than when I thought we had to make all the decisions together.
But you are right. All those borderline extreme examples of hatred towards women screenshotted in this sub are not doing us any favors. It's not about hating women - it's about doing what you want for yourself in the first place and not bending over backwards to gain the approval of girls. My simple trp rule is: don't do any favors for a woman that you wouldn't do for a guy.
Example: Some girl is moving and calling you to tell you that she wants you to rent a truck, pay for it, perhaps get some of your friends to help carry her sofas and bookshelves from her third storey building without an elevator, then you answer just like she was a guy: "fuck off, call a moving company". Or, if she's your best friend in the whole world, you do it because you want to, not because she's a girl. Shit, maybe I'm a feminist, since that means I treat women pretty much the same as guys.
Sorry, that came out as a bit of a rant.
Thank you for the thoughtful and sensible reply.
I just have to point out two things first: Iltasanomat is a magnet for idiots. Second, Facebook-feminists are bloody morons as a rule. I mean the noisy ones. Any social media online feminists tend to be more talk than thought, because they feed off each other and create circlejerks of hate. I don't like to call myself a feminist because I don't want to be lumped together with them. Not to say that one or the other started it, but when you put two bunches of angry, and noisy, and thoughtless people against themselves, you're going to see a lot of stupidity on both sides. Unfortunately, they will attract most attention.
Hey, you want to improve yourself ( and I mean truly improve yourself, not merely adopt a mindset where you simple devalue everyone else to make yourself seem the better ), good for you. I can get behind that. I can get behind many men's rights issues ( finnish army being an awesome example ) too, although many MRAs make their case about being anti-feminism, not about improving the inequality men DO face. Also a problem of stupid noisy people.
Your example is really good since it IS about equality, what also adult, sensible feminists are interested in. It goes both ways.
Hate is a very strong word. Guys come on here and go through a grieving stage as their whole perception of women is completely changed. Their whole view of the world is changed and while people experience distaste, I would rarely call it hate. Cynicism and distaste are actually much more accurate terms to describe someone swallowing the pill.
However, I feel this sub gets a lot of flack because a lot of the newcomers come on and post about how their "x-gf" fucked them over or their mother is crazy or whatever else these guys think is going on. While we do have very good posts coming in daily, a big majority of it is ranting and venting, not much we can do to change that. Hopefully, people can look past it and find actual substance in this space and learn things that changes their lives in a positive way.
I'm gonna repeat myself: TRP is a toolbox for men, if you are a good girl, and you love me for WHO i am (physical look+personality) , and not for WHAT i am (social status, money) i have no reason to treat you like shit, or use ANY TRP stuff on you. The saddest truth for me is that some women will love me for WHAT i'm, and then maaaybe for WHO i'm. While i love you for your being, i don't give a fuck how much money you make, for what social status you have.
I think the problem is that most of the men in this sub don't believe that "good girls" or "rational chicks" actually exist, and they advocate approaching every interaction with a female as if she's the worst possible example of a woman.
Considering what brought most of those men here is because they were doing the opposite, treating every interaction with a female as if she was a "good girl" or a "rational chick", and consequently getting shat on by said females, can you really blame them for taking another approach?
The reason why it's advocated in that way is because it works. It's effective, your personal feelings on the matter be damned.
I don't think there are only two choices here. You can let yourself get walked on by unscrupulous women, you can turn the tables and instead manipulate and hurt women yourself, or (this is revolutionary I know) you can treat women like actual human beings but look after your own well-being first. I don't know what's so hard about that.
Hating is just a stage. That some fellows never progress past it is a tragedy, but hate is not wisdom.
Besides, true RP wisdom/Zen would call hating women giving them power over you, power to control your emotions. Better to have little regard, give them no power; if they're not contributing to your happiness then why expend an iota of mental energy on them?
Yeah honestly I follow it just to get an idea of how they reach their conclusions. I usually don't give it much mind but this post caught my eye.
If TRP concepts did become more accepted/mainstream/whatever, male-female dynamics would only get even more brutal than they are, and we would need additional dosages of red pills, and they would become even harder to swallow. It would basically just make things a lot harder than they already are. Women would increase their mating standards, and men would have higher standards of competition. The red pill illuminates the dark side of human mating, so if that dark side becomes much more illuminated, I'd be afraid to see what remains in the dark.
I enjoy this place mainly for how angry it makes people.
I like the sexual strategies presented in this sub reddit. Not too keen when is delves into real misogyny though.
There's no real mysogyny here. It's all just excuses betas tell themselves to stay on the blue pill because they're afraid of offending women. Apparently to them, Treating them like human beings while still acting as the dominant is considered mysogyny in their scared white knight heads.
It's not that. Some people here legitimately see women as inferior and often look down on women who want to pursue careers, independence and such. Does a Red Pill sexual strategy help a guy get laid? Hell yes. Does being dominant and not putting women on a pedestal help a guy in his sex life? Of course, and screw any man or women who lets coddles women in a day and age where we're all supposed to be equal but the dominance, the 'negging' etc. it should all just be a show. We shouldn't lose sight of our responsibility to consider women as equals rather than submissive wives to be confined to the kitchen.
I don't consider 'women' as equals any more than I consider 'men' equals - that's nobody's responsibility to give anyone a potential pass or fail based on their gender.
They're not equal to us and we are not equal to them. We are different, that is one of the core ideas in TRP.
No, it shouldn't, especially the dominance.
Why do you want to dominate someone though? Isn't it better to educate people on evolutionary psych so we can get past each other's bullshit?
The majority of females find dominance sexy and attractive. Go ahead and make yourself unattractive, you're allowed to do whatever you want.
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Sigh. I just hope that enough mentally challenged ppl remain to keep this shit working without putting extensive effort in everything and inflating the smp by raising the amount of high smv males to the point were it makes you look like "another sand corn at the beach".
Ha. No, I meant find one of their parishes in your area, if there is one.
Society can fall apart for all I care, we'll just rebuild it again, better.
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Political Correctness is what dominates 'communication channels' of which women influence heavily with their feelings based, victim mentality.
Nobody likes a white-knight loser.
Exactly. That's what I was talking about. All media and public figures in the media have to be PC, and being PC means having to appease and appeal to women no matter how wrong or insane the things they're saying are.
One shouldn't sum it up as women control most communication channels. That's heavily misleading.
Being PC means appeasing to women, men, gay, bi, black, hispanic etc... as many people as humanly possible at the same time.
The demand creates the supply, not vice versa.
If people suddenly decide en mass that they like anchovies as a pizza topping, and Papa John's responds by offering more anchovy options on their pizzas, who is ultimately is responsible for Papa John's actions?
The people are. Papa John merely makes what he thinks people want. So, in this way, people do "control" what products Papa John puts out by voting with their dollars.
So it is with the media. They can't just describe the world exactly as it is - that would be morbidly depressing. They have to present information about the world to the people exactly as they, the people, want to hear it. And what people want to hear, apparently, is exactly what you said: appeasement to women, minorities, etc, with political correctness.
But women as a group tend to have a much lower threshold for what constitutes unacceptable rhetoric than men, so effectively, women control PC rhetoric, and men - as a group - do not. The other groups you listed have some control as well,when it comes to speech regarding their respective groups, but when it comes to PC rhetoric regarding the sexes, effectively women are the arbiters of what is acceptable and what isn't.
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That is a perfect example of how we're right about this, thanks for providing it.
What happened to Todd Akin's political career after he made that remark? He got nuked. The media was covering what a shithead he was 24/7, the internet wrote 400 articles about what a shithead he was, Facebook and Twitter were lit up for days talking about what a shithead he was, and then let's not forget that when election day came around, McCaskill legitimately raped him in the polls.
Of course, what Akin said was ignorant and stupid and I am 100% not agreeing with it or disagreeing with the reaction to it.
But you see what happens when a celebrity or public official deviates even a little from what is considered "politically correct?" Public backlash, and lots of it. Look at the recent "CancelColbert" insanity, Mark Cuban's comments about racism, or the recent deal with the Mozilla CEO. People can get nuked out of orbit by the media for saying things that are even slightly "insensitive."
Dude... Chill the fuck out. If you have an opinion on something--however vehemently passionate you are about it--speak your mind in a logical, non-vitriolic way so that we can take your post seriously and give it some thought.
I think he just spends a little too much time on reddit
I didnt read that post very carefully but it didnt seem hateful to trp. If anything it was quite neutral. He agreed on some and disagreed on many. Frankly i want to know the poster's relationship history and his current status. It could very well be good and that his point of view is valid. Or it could be shitty but he still hasnt seen it for what it is
The title was "every man should know why the red pill will kill you inside". That sounds a bit anti-red pill.
As a moderator of a bunch of subreddits that reddit hates with a passion I stand with you.
We're not associated with your racist collection of subs.
Can anyone give me a link to the thread in AMSK? can't seem to find it.
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"Rage-laugh", eh? That's a new one.
How do you accomplish that, exactly?
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Raging, laughing, stroking that guy fawkes mustache and adjusting your fedora all at once? Be sure to let all your female friends know how much you're fighting against assholes on the internet, I'm sure they'll fuck you after that.
Seems like that would take up a lot of energy, laughing and then raging at "the silliness of a bunch of anonymous internet accounts".
And what is the textbook definition of "emotional partner abuse"? Because no one here is advocating coercion, violence, or the threat of violence to get what they want. If anything, it's the opposite. "This is what I want, if you want to be with me, do it. If not, leave." No force necessary, just a clear boundary of what it takes on your behalf if you wish to be in a relationship with me. You have full responsibility to keep up your end if you want to stay, and if you don't want to do it, there's the door.
Is being given agency and responsibility abusive? If so, that says a lot about what you think about women, that setting boundaries and giving them responsibility for holding up their part of a relationship is "abusing" them. As if they're children who can't make their own decisions.
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The closest thing you've got to a red pill tactic on that list is "teasing", and even that is something RP doesn't recommend you do all the time. The rest of that list is extraordinarily subjective.
"Do they control your spending"...if I tell my wife "no, we're not buying a $5000 furniture set", is that "abusive"? "Do they continually have "boundary violations and disrespect your valid requests?"...'no, your deadbeat brother can't stay in the guest room', is that abusive?
You also seem to keep ignoring (or maybe you just didn't bother reading) that RP also stresses that women have every right in the world to leave if they don't want to be there.
If you ask a woman in an RP relationship if she's being abused, and she'll happily tell you no (see: /r/RedPillWomen).
Ask a woman who's not in love with her husband anymore, and she'll tell you she's been "abused" because her husband doesn't let her use his credit card ("controls her spending", "uses neglect as punishment", "not notice or care how she feels", "disrespects her requests", "must get permission before making small decisions") or because he wants her to help keep the house clean ("treats her like a child", "trivial or unreasonable demands", "treat her as if she's inferior", "belittle her accomplishments").
You see how subjective that is, right? What most people would see as "being an adult" (not overspending, keeping a clean home) can be turned into "abuse" based who defines it.
Some people might have only subscribed just to down vote comments on TRP, but they won't stay for long. People don't have an endless amount of time to waste on something so pointless.
And yet, here you are on Reddit.
I just want to point out this quickly: In order to vote/ comment on this sub, we have to SUBSCRIBE to it. That bounds to bump the number up a bit, don't you think? OK, unsubscribing now.
You'd think if people were just signing up to comment on how stupid we are, they'd make their comment and then unsubscribe and move on with their lives.
And yet...the numbers never decrease. Something to think about.
This subreddit seems like one for guys who are desperate to get laid and resort to emotional abuse to achieve orgasm. This is coming from a man btw. A man who is in a sex every day type of relationship with no emotional abuse. But ya'll wouldn't know a man if you saw one.
Michael, you're just a kid. There is absolutely no positive ending for "white knight"s like you; let 10 years pass and you'll see.
Agreed. There are some absolute losers here. Why mock them and not help them?
Yes. If it wasn't for abuse, women would never be attracted to men.
Please, you're a gamer type. $10 says your partner is either ugly, fat, slutty or all.
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I dont need to keep reading. Im happy in my relationship, thank you very much
You seem real happy, on a mission to project your inner peace and love all around.
I wonder if you ever gave thought to why you're happy, why you get sex everyday? I wonder if you kept reading that maybe you would find parallels with your behavior and red pill theory?
Everything has a threshold.
You guys know you have to subscribe to this subreddit to comment right? Right? You do know that...
[Sigh] another great TRP post tainted with mindless paranoia about women, specifically how they "control most communication channels." These are the exact same type of blanket statements that the feminazis make, of course.
God, this subreddit is creepy
No, you're creepy. And rapey.
That's because people have to subscribe to tell you how much of a bunch of freaking weirdos you guys are. For fuck's sake, at the very top of your sub is an invitation to something called /r/pussypass.
And you wonder why people hate you.
GEE.
Most of us don't really give a shit a bunch of reddit/Tumblr keyboard warriors hate us. We're too busy improving our lives and sidestepping your predictable shit tests and manipulations to care nearly as much as you
Mouthing off about something you know nothing about - bravo!
When was the last time you left your house?
Today.
And twenty downvotes. I wear each one with pride.
Wait, you genuinely believe that women control communication?
Umm, are you aware that the person criticising TRP in that post was a male?
And the subreddit was "things all men should know?"
Yep, sounds an awful lot like women.
Women directly or indirectly control the majority of consumption in the West. Women are the default demographic for mass media.
http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/newswire/2011/when-it-comes-to-spending-decisions-women-are-in-control.html
I'm guessing about 90% of the new subscribers have joined just so they can post against your theories. Kinda like I just did since you don't allow non-subscribers to post.
Idiot.
SOME of the stuff you're saying makes sense.
But then you have stuff like this: https://imgur.com/a/bGiiW
You want the rest of Reddit to quit thinking this sub is misogynistic garbage? Address this crap. Stop upvoting it. Tell your mods to delete it. Ask yourself this: would you want your mother to read any of that stuff and know that this is a movement you affiliate yourself? What about your sister? For those of you who have LTR's, would you want your SO to see those posts?
Some of you guys here seem to be decent. It's just that you don't say or do anything about the casual misogyny that's posted here, and that is why people dislike this sub.
It's up to you whether you do what you proclaim to do - listen and try to self improve - or whether you firmly shut your ears and refuse to listen.
Edit: So that would be a 'firmly shut your ears and refuse to listen'... shrugs Okay then. Just remember that you can hardly complain about the way that Reddit views you when you don't make any effort to even listen.
Here's one of the grand secrets of TRP: Although many TRP subscribers are annoyed at Reddit's common characterization of TRP as a place misogynistic trash, most of us don't actually care enough to try and change that image. For some reason outsiders think TRP is some kind of united social movement that seeks to change the world. It is not. TRP is merely a place of discussion about male-female dynamics.
Agreed 100%. Women and soft men are offended at our language or blunt nature? Who gives a shit? I think political correctness has gone from putting down obvious hate speech to anything that hurts the fragile spoiled egos of the catered classes out there.
It's nice to go to a place where the pink thought police doesn't have power (other than buzzing around like mosquitos) and get some discussion going on "forbidden topics".
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