I do not get men's rights.

beetle717 · 2014-06-03T01:19:54+00:00

No there aren't any ridiculous theories to counter the patriarchy lies it's just a group of people who rightly recognize that there are environments like family court where men are discriminated against and work to rectify it.

readoclock · 2014-06-03T02:44:37+00:00

"Currently, in Western societies, women are much more free from their gender roles than men are. They have this movement called feminism, that has substantial institutional power, that fights the gender policing of women. However, when it does this, it often performs gender policing against men.

So we have men who become aware that they've been subject to a traditional gender role, and that that's not fair - they become "gender literate", so to speak. They reject that traditional system, and those traditional messages, that are still so prevalent in mainstream society. They seek out alternatives.

Generally, the first thing they find is feminism - it's big, it's in academic institutions, there's posters on the street, commercials on TV. Men who reject gender, and feel powerful, but don't feel oppressed, tend not to have a problem with feminism.

For others, it's not a safe landing. Men who reject gender, but feel powerless, and oppressed - men who have had struggles in their lives because of their gender role - find feminism. They then become very aware of women's experience of powerlessness, but aren't allowed to articulate their own powerlessness. When they do, they tend to be shamed - you're derailing, you're mansplaining, you're privileged, this is a space for women to be heard, so speaking makes you the oppressor. They're told if you want a space to talk, to examine your gender role without being shamed or dictated to, go back to mainstream society. You see, men have all the power there, you've got plenty of places to speak there.

Men do have places to speak in mainstream society - so long as they continue to perform masculinity. So these men who get this treatment from feminism, and are told the patriarchy will let them speak, find themselves thinking "But I just came from there! It's terrible! Sure, I can speak, but not about my suffering, feelings, or struggles."

So they go and try to make their own space. That's what feminists told them to do." (NeuroticIntrovert)

The problem that he goes on to discuss is the fact that when men attempt to find their own space to discuss their own issues they are then often attacked for doing so. Countless examples can be found including the rhetoric directed against this sub and the people which use it.

BlindPelican · 2014-06-03T03:34:36+00:00

If you're coming from a feminist perspective it might be difficult to get your head around men's issues because it is based on a very different mind set.

Rather than an ideology, the MHRM is really a collection of issues.

For example, men are 50% of the victims of domestic violence, yet only the tiniest fraction of public resources are used to help male victims.

There is a widening educational gap between boys and girls in primary and secondary education and it gets a bit larger every year as more boys are left behind.

Male victims of sex crimes are frequently erased in official statistics and have very little support from public services.

Men, particularly men of color, are sentenced far more heavily than women for the same crimes and similar mitigating circumstances.

There are a host of other issues as well as citations on the sidebar if you would care to take a look.

tallwheel · 2014-06-03T01:29:32+00:00

No matriarchy, but many MRA's use the term "gynocentrism" to describe society - meaning that people of both sexes usually prioritize the safety and well-being of women over men.

rogersmith25 · 2014-06-03T03:44:49+00:00

I can't speak for everyone, but I can give you a few reasons off the top of my head why I am here.

I grew up in a school system that made me feel like there was something wrong with me for being male - we would have lessons and lectures about how patriarchal the world was even in grade school. That men were abusive. That men caused all the problems in the world. And I remember thinking, "This doesn't make sense... the students with the best grades are girls and most teachers are women who say girls can be whatever they want..."

Fast forward to college and I wanted to be exposed to everything - religion, anti-religion, world cultures, feminism... but for some reason there were no "men's groups". Every faculty had a women's group - "women in philosophy, women in science, women in engineering". There was a faculty of women's studies, "safe spaces for women" all over campus, and a student services department dedicated to women. But there wasn't a single men's group. And I thought it was strange that it seemed to imply that women somehow "needed" the help, but that men weren't going to get any assistance.

I asked a female-only club from my department where the club for support for me was, and they said one didn't exist. I asked why and they told me that "it's hard to be a woman in college." I asked why again and they said that "women were basically like a minority on college campuses..."

Funny. Statistics showed a significant female majority in the college and in my department.

And I saw how many awards, scholarships, fellowships, and internships were offered exclusively to women. If men had so much power... if men controlled business and politics... if men were systematically trying to keep women down... Why were there so many opportunities for women that were not offered to men?

I had a conversation with a feminist friend about sexism. She said that men, as a group, could not be victims of sexism, because sexism was more than just discrimination because of gender. It was about the relative power of groups, and that men held institutional and cultural power over women and therefore only men could be sexist.

I decided that it wasn't worth arguing that it seemed like, at least around us, women held all the institutional power since they had a women's studies faculty, a service department, numerous clubs and activities, their own spaces... and if any men wanted to start any of these things for men they were not only rejected, but socially shamed. These men were "misogynists" for wanting to "take away from women"... and as a young single guy hoping to find a woman to love and a career to start, I was terrified of getting that reputation.

But I know that I've encountered the kind of stuff that supposedly only happened to women. I was harassed in a way that, had the victim been a young woman and the offender a drunk 50 year-old man, that people would have been horrified. Groping my chest and arms in an elevator. Caressing my neck and ears while I drove a carload of drunk divorcees home from a party. But instead people laughed as I was harassed... and my friends... and we were supposed to just laugh it off. They were 'harmless'. That's happened a bunch of times over the years from strange and familiar women alike. The idea that only women have to fear that type of harassment is nonsense. Men just get used to brushing it off.

But the big one was when I was in a bad relationship and the woman threatened to call the police and say that I had hit her so that she could win an argument. It was the worst day I've ever had. Because I knew that she could do it and totally ruin my life. One false accusation and nobody, not even my own family, would ever look at me the same.

And the thing is... I'm terrified to tell anyone about how I feel about this stuff in real life. Because they'll think that I'm some sort of misogynistic monster. Or terrorist. Or all of the above. So I've never actually told anyone how I feel about this stuff in real life. But I come to /r/mensrights to try to find balance. It helps to talk about this stuff, even if you're too scared to do it in real life.

To answer your question, I think that feminist theory is a made-up narrative full of cherry picked observations. I started to really question contemporary feminism when I heard about postmodernism invading science. I don't think that we live in a matriarchy, but I think that "patriarchy theory" is not scientific. I'm a pragmatic and scientific person, and I like to call out bad science and bullshit wherever it goes. And a lot of the "tumblr feminist" arguments I hear lately are bullshit.

In the end, the reason I post here is because my feminist friends said it is impossible to be sexist against men and I think that both men and women each face their own types of sexism. That men deserve to have safe spaces on campuses too. That men deserve advocates and faculties in school too. That men have parental rights too. I could go on. I'm not trying to take anything away from women, I just want men afforded the same opportunities and rights as women... the same way that I want women to have the same things as men. The fact that men having conferences to talk about men's issues is so offensive that feminists show up in force to attack, harass, dirsupt, threaten, and ultimately cancel them shows how much more power women's groups have. There is even a whitehouse council on women and girls... but none for boys and men...

Truly, I'm an egalitarian, and /r/mensrights is one of the few places even willing to acknowledge that men can be the victims of sexism too... Not even that men have it worse... just that it happens.

Thanks for reading.

Edit: Thank you for gold, friend.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2014-06-03T05:44:33+00:00

do MRA think they are in a matriarchy?

If by that you mean a society where women hold all the social power and influence, the answer is no.

MHRA's believe we live in a society dominated by a gender system (i.e. a set of ideas and beliefs about how "correct" men and "correct" women should be), but that this set of ideas gives BOTH men and women different sets of advantages and disadvantages (or privileges and disprivileges) relative to each other. Both sexes are being screwed over, but in different ways.

However, this set of gender norms DOES encourage concern for women's well-being. They are, after all, the incubators of the future! Men don't get this concern, especially when they need it (because if they are 'failed men' they are socially worthless... women on the other hand always have some worth to society).

Men's rights is NOT opposed to women's rights. Quite the opposite. We simply specialize in men's issues. However, WOMEN can gain from men's rights activism, because one of the goals of the MHRM is to abolish the subject-object dichotomy (or hyperagent-hypoagent dichotomy) and thus to encourage people to see men as capable of being acted upon, as well as women as capable of acting.

We support female agency and female competence. Establishment feminism, on the other hand, just marinates in the victim mentality and reinforces the gender stereotypes.

In terms of feminism, our movement is basically in agreement with the non-radical early second wave feminism of Friedan and the classical liberal/individualist feminisms. The problem is that establishment feminism is all radical second wave and third wave feminism, which is opposed to how we see things. We don't see gender as a class struggle of Teh Wimminz vs. Teh Menz... rather, we see a struggle of individuals vs. stereotypes and social expectations.

readoclock · 2014-06-03T02:20:03+00:00

Can people please stop downvoting this guy. He has come here to have an actual discussion and is trying to do so. Whether or not you agree with what he is saying can we please give him the chance to express his opinion and join in the conversation.

Debate don't downvote.

ImNotIntoPokemon · 2014-06-03T01:17:49+00:00

You can read the sidebar if you're truly interested. Many people wrote a great many posts that explain everything in a much better way than I ever could.

Murbah · 2014-06-03T04:56:00+00:00

If you came here thinking the point of the thread was a genuine curiosity then turn around now :P at best /u/whitematt is a troll who gets his jollies trying to rustle jimmies and at worst he's a anti-MRA who just wants to provoke people into saying something silly.

I mean really:

Acts like he thought MRA's were a single unified force (maybe forgiveable but....come on that's pretty obvious

Oh, so like is there a spectrum of people's belief in men's rights?

Goes ahead and responds to high rates of male homelessness with the comparison that women have it bad because they have to shave their legs

For example, as men we have hair on our legs. If we wanted to we could shave it. Socially it might be a little wierd but no so uncommon. Women however are told to shave thier leg hair.

Doesn't want to respond to substantial and meaninful explanations that account for low knowledge levels on the subject

have allot of comments to look at. That is to much to read

If it turns out /u/whitematt is not a troll/shit-stirrer and actually genuinely wants to learn something about MRA's maybe he should read some of the excellent responses he's been given or just read up on some of the content on this subbreddit.

librtee_com · 2014-06-03T09:40:09+00:00

One important issue, to me, is the idea of men's disposability, that suffering of men doesn't really matter.

Boko Haram murders a couple entire schools full of boys, but nobody notices until they kidnap a school full of girls.

Elliot Rodgers shoots 4 guys and 2 girls, and the girls are the focus of media attention.

TV show 'Shameless' shows a man being handcuffed to a bed and anally raped with a giant dildo while he screams in protest ('Frank the Plank' episode); it is played off as lighthearted comedy.

Boys are generally taught never to hit girls; the opposite is not true. Female violence against men is often considered humorous and somehow inherently just.

The genuine suffering of many men in the world is dismissed with the awful phrase 'male tearz'

Men's suffering is seen as humorous, trivial, inevitable. After all, some men commit most violence in the world, so all violence directed towards men is just karma.

One important, but perhaps under-discussed, area of men's rights is the simple societal recognition that boy's and men's pain and suffering is equal to women's.

There are many other issues of course, but it's late, and I see you already have 292 replies :-P

mirazatha · 2014-06-03T02:53:08+00:00

personally i see the MRM as a movement that advocates not only equal rights, but also equal responsibility. i dont think that we live in a matriarchy (thats almost as stupid as i think patriarchy is) but i do think we live in a society where people have forgotten that in addition to the rights you get for being an adult, an equal number of responsibilities comes with them

polysyllabist · 2014-06-03T07:25:05+00:00

Let's break things down simply. There's a ton of stuff in which women are not treated equally to men. That list has grown shorter and shorter thanks to the feminist movement.

However, there are also a ton of stuff in which men do not yet receive the same justice as women. Family courts, rape accusations, the draft, court sentencing, domestic abuse response, access to certain services such as shelters, genital rights of children, etc etc.

Attempting to address those (perceived) inequalities was not getting anywhere from within feminism, so interested parties (men and women) started a movement to address these specific men's rights issues outside feminism.

Everything else stems from that move to work from outside that framework. The blow back, the animosity, the bitterness. But at it's core, it's goal is equality, same as feminism. But just as feminism prioritizes issues that primarily affect women, men's right's looks to arrive at that very same goal of equality by focusing on what feminism isn't; issues primarily or unfairly affecting men.

Workchoices · 2014-06-03T09:00:27+00:00

Because 96% of workplace deaths are men

Because 50% of domestic violence victims are men, yet you never hear about them and no funding goes to help them.

Because the majority of prisoners are men, Because first time MALE offenders are almost twice as likely to serve time, Because Women are bailed 80% of the time [compared to men 50%] Because in people who serve time, men serve significantly more of their sentences

Men are more likely to lose their job and less likely to be re-employed

Men are a significant minority of tertiary education students.

90% of homeless sleeping on the streets are men.

3/4 of suicide victims are men

source: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/07/men-gender-divide-feminism

The biggest draw card? The draft. Take my card and then we can talk.

What issues do women face that can possibly compare to that? That they feel social pressure to shave their legs? In every major area, across the board society is failing men and nobody seems to give a fuck. The government doesn't fund any programs, men are ridiculed for standing up and talking about it...

slideforlife · 2014-06-03T11:21:47+00:00

matriarchy and patriarchy are binary oversimplifications that fail to adequately describe the complex set of social gender dynamics that take place due to the manner in which we collectively invest our time and activities. men's rights seeks to address those dynamics that disadvantage men due to their gender and are most times ignored.

magnora2 · 2014-06-03T12:13:19+00:00

Men have 4x the suicide rate.

Men die much more often on the job.

Men are forced to sign up for the draft.

Men are expected to earn enough income to support a whole family.

Men aren't allowed to wear many types of clothing or act certain ways because they're held to an idea of "manliness".

Men make up most of the homeless, but get no dedicated shelters.

Men aren't allowed to complain about any of this, because we're told that we're very privileged just to be men.

Men are not allowed to cry, ever.

Women are made to be afraid of men, as if we're all potential rapists or murders. That sucks, I hate people being scared of me just because of my gender. I've done nothing wrong.

Society needs to stop holding men to stupid gender roles. Society also needs to stop holding women to stupid gender roles. Really, we're after the same thing. Ending stupid ideas about gender roles held by society, and rectifying the consequences of those bad assumptions.

intensely_human · 2014-06-03T15:49:32+00:00

do MRA think they are in a matriarchy?

I haven't seen any discussions around this word "matriarchy", so I'd say it's not a part of our thought process. We tend to focus on and discuss individual problems which men face. When it comes time to discuss underlying causes, the word "matriarchy" doesn't come up, but we do reference some common cultural themes such as "misandry" (hatred of men, counterpart to "misogyny") and "male disposability" (belief that a man's life and comfort is worth less than a woman's, or even that men's function is to sacrifice themselves or use themselves up for some other good; could be loosely considered a form of objectification).

Yes I read the article but I am still confused.

Which article did you read?

consider my self a feminist, but I just want a better understanding for this social movement

We have heard the claim that feminism is benefitting men too. Sometimes it is claimed that "patriarchy hurts men too", and hence that men joining feminism will help men by weakening "patriarchy". However, there is little evidence that this is anything other than talk on the part of feminism. Some would point out that many laws enacted as a result of lobbying by feminist organizations hurts men, and others would point out that feminism routinely says zip-zilch-nada about first-world circumcision, male suicide, family court bias, conscription, male worker fatality rates, educational enrollment and outcomes, differential sentencing rates, etc.

The purpose of the Men's Rights Movement is to support the rights of men. Other MRAs disagree with me, but I am completely comfortable saying that I'm focusing on men and not women when I come here. Others will say (in the same way feminism does) that the Men's Rights Movement is working for equality of the sexes.

We also have some specific tasks which have to do with countering the effect of feminism on cultural consciousness. For example, feminists have managed to convince everyone that any situation in which a woman is traditionally benefitted by culture, is actually an insult to that women because it treats her as childlike. For example, in the United States men are required to register with the Selective Service in order to obtain their voting privileges. Unlike women who are granted the right to vote by the Constitution, men must earn the privilege to vote by trading ownership of their own life for a long-term lease which the government can revoke at will.

There are two ways to look at this:

Men are being shit upon here, because they are required to die. Women are getting the relatively cozy end of the stick by maintaining their right to life.
OR Men are being honored by being seen as good soldier material, while women are being treated like children by not being asked to register.

Feminism has worked to fill the public consciousness with variations on number 2, to the point where 1 is forgotten.

With regard to framable issues like the conscription issue, the MRM is directly opposed to feminism's cultural memes.

DavidByron2 · 2014-06-03T16:11:24+00:00

MRA is what feminism pretends to be.

MisterDamage · 2014-06-04T10:19:21+00:00

Western society is neither matriarchal nor patriarchal. It is run by the powerful and the wealthy for the powerful and the wealthy. There are some aspects of the power structure that work to the disadvantage of women and there are some aspects of the structure that work to the disadvantage of men.

Is a homeless man powerful because some other man is running the show? Is Hillary Clinton powerless because some other woman is getting paid less than she should be?

TRPACC · 2014-06-03T02:28:33+00:00

A lot of it is to do with feminism legislating against mens rights and using statistical and academic fraud to cover up women's abuse - so abuse can be stereotyped as largely male perpetrated for political and financial gain, as well as unjust legislation and then feminism attacking anyone that speaks out about it.

Before that, the mens liberation movement just got pissed of with feminists not allowing male perspectives and issues to be brought up - they so called equality movement is certainly a gynocentric matriarchy.

Governments (men) have more favorable attitudes towards women and the majority of voters are women, so you can say democracies are really matriarchies in a way, or gynocentric.

yourpants · 2014-06-03T05:30:54+00:00

Something to consider: many redditors came to this subreddit as a result of /r/feminism banning them for even the slightest dissent, opposition, or criticism of what they say or do. You may be getting downvoted, but at least we're still willing to speak with you unlike the trigger-happy mods over in the feminist subreddits.

2014-06-03T06:32:49+00:00

He's trollin', trollin', trollin' ...

tthorn707 · 2014-06-03T08:55:08+00:00

This thread is a waste of this subreddit's time. This kid did not come looking for a legitimate discussion

ThePigmanAgain · 2014-06-03T10:03:13+00:00

Of course you don't get men's rights! No one does, that's why we are here!

Anq · 2014-06-03T10:05:42+00:00

A link to the FAQ really should get permanently added to the front page, or something.

thepizzapeople · 2014-06-03T13:41:10+00:00

You're getting a lot of responses that cover most of the major points, but I'll give you my personal story for how I ended up here. It hits on some of the biggest issues that r/mensrights is all about.

It's a long story, but you're getting flooded with comments, so I'll try to keep it brief and just hit the major points. It's the story of my Uncle. Super nice guy, veteran, mail-man. He had brief marriage that ended with her walking out on him for another woman. He was a bit of a mess and rebounded with a woman he should have steered clear of. She was more than a bit crazy and started getting physically abusive, so he left. Then it turned out she was pregnant. Crap. He wants to do the right thing, he wants to be a good Dad. So he invites her to move into his place and try to make things work. She gets worse, more abusive, more violent. One night things reach a breaking point, she's threatening to kill him. He's beaten, humiliated, terrified. He call's 911 in tears and runs outside to wait for the cops. They show and promptly arrest him. He spends a few days locked up fighting her charges of abuse. She never faces any charges for what she did to him despite massive evidence.

Nine years later and he's still fighting tooth and nail for custody of his son. He's an amazing father with a great job and a good home with a big bedroom for his son. She lives in a crap apartment with the kid on the couch, has repeatedly lied in court and been caught (and called out), has known mental health and substance abuse issues and yet.... somehow my Uncle still only has partial custody rights.

Now imagine if the genders in this story were reversed? For most of us, mensrights has nothing to do with any of the things people like r/against mensrights says. It's about the areas of our society where men are discriminated against and the fact that most of society is ok with it because "patriarchy".

NateExMachina · 2014-06-03T22:02:22+00:00

User deleted his entire comment history prior to today.

Submits in /r/malefashionadvice: "What if i died my hair pastel blue and wore preppy pastel clothes. Its like a paradox because preppy is very natural so dying my hair goes against the preppy trend but my hair and clothes will be preppy. My goal is to just mess with peoples minds." All negative karma in that submission.

Makes no effort to read sidebar material. Asks people to explain everything instead, then complains that they wrote too much.

-388 comment karma. Not surprised.

levelate · 2014-06-03T01:21:24+00:00

I am a man and I consider my self a feminist

make you voice heard in feminist circles, then get back to us.

you allude to the 'fact' that we live in a patriarchy, but fail to mention that women are treated better than men in almost every scale.

i'm gonna call it now, troll.

2014-06-03T03:27:15+00:00

True MRA's and Feminists should have a vested interest in the outcomes of each other as they are both movements in the direction of equality. A lot of the misunderstandings between these two groups is the fear of the Other; there has been disparity between men and women's rights for so long that even the ideology is threatening.

tallwheel · 2014-06-03T04:05:29+00:00

[permanently deleted]

wabernack · 2014-06-03T04:09:55+00:00

I have two main issues I'd like to see addressed. First, I believe non-medical circumcision should be outlawed. In any case where it's not absolutely required for medical reasons, circumcision should not happen until the child is of age and can make the choice himself. This is my primary concern in regards to male-focused issues.

Second, there needs to be a way for men to opt out of paternity. Almost all reproduction rights belong to women at the moment, they have certain rights with no male equivalent. If a woman is pregnant, it is her choice whether or not to abort the fetus or carry it to term.

Since forcing a woman to carry a child or abort it is obviously out of the question, there needs to be a legal means for men to "abort" their fatherhood. Fathers should be able to give up all paternity rights to a child in order to avoid paying child support. Once the father gives up his paternity rights, should the mother choose to give birth to the child she would have sole custody and sole financial responsibility for it.

These issues seem to be very important to the men's rights movmement, which is why I drawn to it. I believe most feminists will side with MRA's on the subject of circumcision, but things get a bit dicey when talking about paternity rights. I don't believe feminism has my best interests in mind, which is why I side with the MRM instead.

Funcuz · 2014-06-03T06:34:51+00:00

The generally understood basis of this movement is not that men need more rights. We don't believe that we're lacking something that women have and we don't.

What the issues we focus on are that A) Do women actually have it that bad ? and B) Why aren't our rights protected and enforced in a system that claims to be all about blind justice and equality.

The answer to A is both yes and no. If you're talking about women in the Third World then yes, there is a lot of work to be done in improving their lot in life. If you're talking about women in the developed world then it's a completely untenable argument because by every measure we have women are treated better, cared for much more, and granted far more privileges than are men.

For B) the first question that comes up is "What rights do you have that aren't protected ?" The answer is in the double standards of enforcement of laws that are supposed to be fair and equitable. For example, if the cops get called to a home for a suspected case of domestic violence why is it that he's as likely to be arrested as she is even if she's the one beating on him and he's got the blood streaming down his face to prove it ?

As for feminism...ha ha ha. There's a reason we're so hostile to feminism around here and it's not because we're "ignorant and uneducated". It's precisely the opposite. It's because we took the time to look up the sources, find the statistics, and question the assumptions only to find that most of it was either lies, serious misrepresentation of the truth, or only half the issue in the first place.

lordslag · 2014-06-03T05:04:53+00:00

The thought process is simply this: Feminists and feminism aren't for men, they're for women, that's right in the names. There are many areas in which men are discriminated against and feminism has a vested interest in keeping it this way because it benefits it's primary members, women, with preferential treatment. Most feminists won't even acknowledge these things exist, much less support them, and most actively fight against any kind of dialog at all, let alone solutions that are actually equal. This is because equal solutions will remove unfair advantages in these areas that women have. So, here they are:

The Paper Abortion for Men. Is it okay to force a woman to be a mother because a pregnancy occurs? No. Therefore the same for men.

Equal Parenting Laws.

Eliminating or forcing women to sign up for the draft.

Gender Equal Sentencing Laws

Gender Equal Funding Laws

Gender Equal Physical Requirements Laws

Elimination of VAWA for it's violation of men's 14th Amendment Rights.

Elimination of the pay gap myth. Take into account all factors rather than just all full time men's and women's wages, which is laughably simplistic, and the gap disappears.

Gender Equal Divorce Laws and Enforcement

Anonymity for the Accused Laws If the accuser is anonymous, so is the accused.

Men's Studies courses in all Universities, or the Elimination of Women's Studies

Men's Domestic Violence and Abuse Shelters

Right to Genital Integrity for Male Babies. If they were chopping off 20% of the nerve endings in every vulva, there would be an uproar. Babies can't consent, regardless if it helps prevent infections or not.

Stop medicating boys in schools. Boys aren't defective, the system is.

Stop painting all men as potential rapists/child molesters; "Teach men not to rape." Like all men are rapists and must be taught otherwise. How about "Teach women not to be golddiggers." See how both contain sexists premises?

EDIT-Speleeng iz haard.

unbannable9412 · 2014-06-03T06:39:57+00:00

I'm truly amazed at the patience the rest of you have.

Also quite amazed at your inability to spot a troll.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-06-03T01:12:55+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

whinemoreplease · 2014-06-03T04:02:25+00:00

http://www.cultural-misandry.com/mens-rights/

OP, If you're not going to bother to read the answers to your question (e.g. the answers are too long), what are you doing here?

Hungerwolf · 2014-06-03T04:02:30+00:00

No, we don't believe in Matriarchy, and here is why- We are not an ideology, we are a rights movement, like women's rights and civil rights.

Feminism includes the belief in Patriarchy because it is an ideology, not a rights movement. Feminism claims to include or support women's rights as a part of this ideology, but most MRA believe that this claim is either misguided or an outright lie.

2014-06-03T04:18:30+00:00

There's general discontent regarding the radical feminists' insulting and destructive rhetoric, and there's discontent over systemic, institutionalized biases that favor women at the expense of men and children.

Some MRAs are also feminists, thus making us egalitarians. Some are only concerned with combating radical feminist rhetoric. Some think they're on a holy crusade against feminism overall. Some are only concerned with gender issues that negatively impact men. Some are just blatant misogynists seeking an outlet to vent. Some just want a circlejerk to participate in.

As with feminism, you can't really sum it up with one description.

whitmatt · 2014-06-03T02:57:43+00:00

Sorry if I am skipping your comments. There are so many of you!!

whitmatt · 2014-06-03T03:51:07+00:00

Ok I am SOOOO tired! I am going to bed Goodnight!!!

2014-06-03T04:52:25+00:00

I am a man and I consider my self a feminist

Sorry to tell you this but that's not going to get you laid buddy.

NiceIce · 2014-06-03T06:14:25+00:00

I am a man and I consider my self a feminist, but I just want a better understanding for this social movement.

You are a man, and you are a feminist? You do realize that's like a black man who is a KKK member, or a Jew who is a Nazi.

You are a traitor to your sex.

2014-06-03T04:45:38+00:00

Yes, we live in a matriarchy.

Title	I do not get men's rights.
Author	whitmatt
Upvotes	23
Comments	388
Date	June 3, 2014 1:12 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/275vgt/i_do_not_get_mens_rights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-do-not-get-mens-rights.999765 https://theredarchive.com/post/999765

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