What exactly is toxic masculinity?

ExMuzzy · 2022-09-29T14:45:26+00:00

In short it is viewing some problems that men face through the lens of feminism.

Feminists don't like to see men's issues framed as misandry because they believe we live in a patriarchy. So for example, feminists believe suicidal men do not seek help because they are afraid of being seen as weak. They believe men do not want to be seen as weak because it's a feminine trait. Therefore, men not wanting to be seen as feminine is misogyny according to feminists. That is why they prefer to call it "toxic masculinity" instead of acknowledging it as sexism against men or (internalised) misandry. It's pretty much blaming men as a group for their own problems.

Quoting this from askfeminists which says the same thing pretty much.

Internalised misogyny is a hatred for one’s own gender, but toxic masculinity stems from hatred for women. Men are shamed for possessing feminine traits/ dressing like a woman bc to be a woman is undesirable in their eyes

In reality, studies have shown men who have committed suicide do seek help but do not find it useful. Therefore, it is plain old misandry.

somethingneet · 2022-09-29T14:55:07+00:00

Nobody actually knows because it was designed to be so fucking vague that it'll apply whenever it's used

elebrin · 2022-09-29T14:29:04+00:00

Any behavior from a man that a woman doesn't like at the moment. Subject to change at the specific woman's whims.

heeroena · 2022-09-29T14:29:49+00:00

A gaslighting shaming term used to manipulate men into behaving the way that feminists deem acceptable (for them)

anoncitizen4 · 2022-09-29T15:00:45+00:00

An excuse for feminist to blame their problems on men.

Halobruhv · 2022-09-29T15:09:55+00:00

A term to shame a man who does anything that's traditional for men to do.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-09-29T14:21:02+00:00

The term itself is a gaslight to blame everything on men, so we reject the terminology is unacceptable to call it like that.
Once you understand that, then the ''supposed'' meaning refers to all those social standars pushed onto men that result toxic for society.
Our critique of course is that first those standars are not rooted in masculinity itself but rather come from society as a whole including females and femininity.

BAYKON8R · 2022-09-30T10:31:07+00:00

An example of toxic masculinity I experienced would be the whole men don't cry and other Shit. Expecting us to keep our emotions in check, which leads to lack of emotional development, depression, because we can't properly express our emotions. Basically anything that enforces "MEN ARE MEN BE A MAN A MANLY MAN."

However some people, mostly the extreme feminists use it to put men down and out of the conversation of equality.

At least this is what I believe it to be. Any more examples or points would be good.

skcuf2 · 2022-09-29T14:28:05+00:00

I always just assumed it was women trying to explain how men communicate. Last night I was playing video games with a friend and I made a mistake and he said, "Wow, you're retarded." I responded with, "Your mom doesn't seem to care about that."

Men don't do passive aggressive fighting so to a woman this seems like a massive battle, and thus toxic, while as a man it's funny to do banter like this.

crz8956 · 2022-09-29T16:30:32+00:00

Feminist strawman.

Hirudin · 2022-09-29T14:49:14+00:00

A kafkaesque cloud of doubt a feminist squirts out to evade responsibility for the consequences of policies they favor.

OwnerAndMaster · 2022-09-29T14:53:44+00:00

Living as a man in any way that doesn't assist or accommodate women

Especially if you're not paying women attention. They need all the attentions

Sharpie_Nomad · 2022-09-29T15:03:42+00:00

It is sometimes used to describe male tendencies that are actually toxic and destructive, like meathead, macho bullshit that teen guys do. That's the charitable version of the term. More often, it is used to dismiss male tendencies that are perfectly healthy or natural, but deemed inconvenient to women and shut down any constructive conversation.

Sarin03 · 2022-09-30T02:06:54+00:00

Its any "masculine" trait deemed toxic.

Chome_gnompy · 2022-09-29T16:54:05+00:00

A dogwhistle term used exclusively by misandrists.

Serious-Nebula5584 · 2022-09-29T15:02:35+00:00

Means any speck of testosterone found anywhere withing the 5 neighboring multiverses

StardustNovaSynchron · 2022-09-29T15:05:43+00:00

Toxic masculinity is basically what being a man means,aka being brave,bold not showing emotions ,sacrificing for the better good of country and family. But now that we are in a time of peace and social media woman have suddenly decided that's not what they want in a man anymore so they label that toxic behaviour while being 10x more toxic than the average man.

aknabi · 2022-09-29T14:51:15+00:00

Toxic is whatever she says it is. Splitting the bill? Toxic.

Typical-Mud8641 · 2022-09-29T14:21:48+00:00

Made up nonsense

Normal-Yogurtcloset5 · 2022-09-29T16:52:56+00:00

“Toxic masculinity” is a BS term that feminists use to try to condemn masculine behaviors. I first encountered a form of this when I was in college. What I’d often see was campus feminists complaining about men, choosing effeminate boyfriends who were skinny sensitive sensitive vegetarians and then they’d cheat on them with more masculine men. The guys were confused because they thought they were giving their girlfriend everything they wanted. What I learned from watching that was to stay in my masculine frame and not listen to women because they’re confused. This was later confirmed for me when a feminist told me at a party that I was “too masculine”. She later wound up in my bed enjoying my “toxic masculinity”. These women want to appear as strong feminists to their friends but, behind closed doors, they’re completely different.

B1G_Fan · 2022-09-29T18:29:51+00:00

Anything a feminist doesn’t like = toxic masculinity

Anyone a Republican in the US doesn’t like = Antifa

Anyone a Democrat in the US doesn’t like = threat to democracy

I wouldn’t look to ideologues for consistency

fzappa714 · 2022-09-29T20:44:55+00:00

I taught middle school for twenty yrs and one time I had a student ask me what toxic meant. I told him it means you can’t eat it. He was satisfied with that and never brought Up the subject again. Ahh, those magic teaching moments.

Unmaykr64 · 2022-09-29T16:51:33+00:00

A word feminists like to throw around

spelczech · 2022-09-29T15:13:08+00:00

Just another way for special interest groups with a gendered agenda to put the blame for behavior deemed "problematic" onto the gender they oppose and shift focus away from "problematic" behavior of the gender they support. It's a red herring.

PugnaciousBart · 2022-09-29T15:20:16+00:00

It’s a gaslighting term used by woke sjw delusional feminists

Redditcritic6666 · 2022-09-29T16:49:07+00:00

whatever feminist want to frame it to be at the time, often at the convinence of their current narriative.

BleuTyger · 2022-09-29T20:37:20+00:00

My sister always says I'm mansplaining when I talk about my hyperfixation

TomsRedditAccount1 · 2022-09-29T21:03:11+00:00

It's one of the most misunderstood phrases on the internet. Toxic masculinity is when a man has ideas about masculinity which harm himself or other men. It is not when a man has ideas about masculinity which harm woman.

For example, if a man dies of an infection because "real men don't need to see a doctor", that's toxic masculinity. Or if a guy with depression tries to talk about it, and if his friend tells him to take a concrete pill and harden the fuck up, that's toxic masculinity.

On the other hand, if a man says that women belong in the kitchen and shouldn't be allowed to vote, that's not toxic masculinity. It's misogynistic, but that's not the same thing.

2022-09-29T21:48:18+00:00

There is no such thing because you can have toxic women too. It's just toxic people.

AndyBrown65 · 2022-09-29T22:56:02+00:00

It is just a bullying term in order to manipulate men into doing stuff that benefits them.

If you notice whenever it gets used the caller never obtains a benefit from the man’s actions, however whenever they obtain a benefit the man’s actions are not toxic.

PrisonedSwing60 · 2022-09-30T01:16:31+00:00

Toxic masculinity is stuff that is enforced under the belief that men have to always be manly and buff and they can’t do things like cry or wear specific things like dresses and nail polish.

sudev29 · 2022-09-30T01:44:07+00:00

It's basic human toxicity with masculinity added at the end.

May097 · 2022-09-30T07:48:39+00:00

Actual Definition- Toxic traits in any person (bad communication, inability to show emotions, etc).

Feminist definition- Anything masculine.

The way it's used, is pretty much the same way radical idiots use any word. Take a word, then hyper inflate it's meaning and associte it with the key qualities of the person you hate. Thus, turning them into something worth hating.

mllhild · 2022-09-30T08:24:13+00:00

whatever the feminist needs it to be for their current agenda

shymeeee · 2022-09-30T09:04:54+00:00

I grew up and was groomed to be a feminist. Life, however, brought many challenges and today I want to know why "toxic femininity" is never mentioned???? It exists and is at least as prevalent as toxic masculinity.

JxSparrow7 · 2022-09-30T12:44:33+00:00

Toxic masculinity is thoughts/behaviors/ideas about "how men should be" that have negative repercussions on people (men and women).

Toxic femininity (a term that is growing and needs to grow more) is the same thing except change the quotations to "how women should be".

They are terms that I do think exist. It's just our opponents have turned it to mean something completely different.

An example of toxic masculinity? The draft. Sending boys and men to die in a war because they are men and "that's what they're supposed to do".

Another? "women and children in the boat first". Men are "meant" to be sacrificial pawns for women and children in society.

"Men should ask women out". Toxic masculinity in that form however it is also toxic femininity when women are taught "women should play hard to get".

Bound-Submissive · 2022-10-01T18:07:59+00:00

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity or femininity. There is such thing as toxic people, regardless of gender. Now they are trying to say that the stereotype against men that they don't cry is toxic masculinity but it's just toxic shit. And I hate it. But toxicism doesn't depend on gender but on behavior and character. This constant attack on men happening I won't tolerate. I am embarrassed to be the same gender with those man hating feminists who manipulate society.

NameJr2000 · 2023-03-06T01:38:25+00:00

Toxic masculinity is just masculinity pushed to a harmful extreme.

For example:

Toxic masculinity is shaming men to completely suppress their emotions. Toxic masculinity is shaming men and boys for crying and being vulnerable.

Toxic masculinity is shaming men for not being physically strong. It’s shaming men for not being able to lift a certain amount of weight.

Toxic masculinity is claiming men aren’t allowed to show fear that fear is only present in defective men.

Toxic masculinity is shaming men for struggling with women. Shaming them for not having copious amounts of casual sex. Shaming men for desiring deeper relationships with women other than sexual.

Toxic masculinity is shaming men for being gay or bisexual. It even includes men be shamed for being sexual adventurous with women like engaging in pegging, anal, femdom.

Toxic masculinity is shaming a man for not being able to be a provider. Claiming a man is defective if he can’t be a sole provider for his household.

Toxic masculinity is shaming men for a woman being better than them at anything considered masculine. If a woman is stronger than you you’re weak. If a woman is bigger than you you’re frail. If a woman makes more than you you’re a beta.

Toxic masculinity is shaming men for exhibiting the slightest bit of femininity.

Toxic masculinity is using violence to control, intimidate and dominate others. Using it to protect your ego and dominate weaker people.

I hope you get the gist of it now. Men and women can exhibit toxic masculinity. Masculinity isn’t toxic but when these shaming behaviors take place it’s considered toxic masculinity because it corrupts the good values and ideas of traditional masculinity.

yokoonomamono · 2023-03-08T20:50:27+00:00

I define it as honor culture gone awry, like what you might see as the norm in Egypt or Pakistan or perhaps a hatfields and McCoy situation. ITs sociopathic violence with its roots as identifying as a "man" or "insults to ones manhood". IT has a female counterpart. Both terms don't apply to a majority of men/women.

Popular-Apartment-54 · 2023-03-11T04:16:13+00:00

the idea that masculinity is toxic is only peddled by wibbly androgenous worm-people who are weak, pathetic, and otherwise sorely lacking in the tenets of masculinity such as stoicism, self discipline, drive, committment, follow-through, ambition, leadership, physical prowess, bravery, etc.

when people say toxic masculinity, they are referring to dictator-like behavior, bragadociousness, licentiousness and pathological aggression which have always been frowned upon and suppressed among men, so I fail to see where the idea that those truly toxic behaviors were ever endorsed by the male species.

IronJohnMRA · 2022-09-29T16:33:01+00:00

There is no toxic masculinity.

darklogic420 · 2022-09-29T16:45:16+00:00

Misandry. It means misandry.

quantainium_pasta · 2022-09-29T23:21:10+00:00

It's a made up term to hate on men just for existing.

Stanios_desantos · 2022-09-29T14:50:07+00:00

Illusion

Throwawayyacc22 · 2022-09-29T15:22:29+00:00

A made up term to make men feel bad about being a man

Eliot_Sontar · 2022-09-29T15:26:53+00:00

Shot like not holding a purse or buying tampons cause it's to girly

miroku000 · 2022-09-29T17:40:43+00:00

There is such a thing as toxic masculinity. If you go to a prison and find the most messed up criminals and then look at their version of masculinity which includes a propensity for violence, hemophilia, and a propensity for committing domestic violence. At the extreme end of society, if you just look at violent criminals, you can find they have some warped ideas about what it means to be a man in society. That's where the term originally came from. But then feminists try to apply it to all men and assert that toxic masculinity is the dominant form of masculinity in society. That is where I would disagree with them.

Crazy_Coyote_KY · 2022-09-29T17:58:12+00:00

Toxic Masculinity = bully. The guy that goes into a bar looking for a fight just for the fun of it, to prove he the strongest guy. Talk about keeping people in line (mostly his old woman). How 'the man' is keeping him down where all he has to do is not spend all his money on beer, smokes, & strippers.

In short the guy playing crap games and winning crap prizes.

Aimless-Nomad · 2022-09-29T18:19:51+00:00

A buzzword

FearlessFly9785 · 2022-09-29T18:40:27+00:00

I always find it that toxic masculinity is the lack of masculinity. If a man question himself and try to prove his masculinity around the world he has toxic masculinity. Like being aggressive, violent, things like if he looking for attention he lacks masculinity which is toxic. Masculinity and feminity are like diamonds it reflects in your habits like diamonds reflects light rays. Others judge it shining and values it according to them. Just because charcoal has carbon molecules in them doesn't make them a diamond.

hearyoume14 · 2022-09-29T20:16:35+00:00

From an ex-feminist perspective:

It is the,mainly male traits,that cause or influence men to behave in violent or socially unacceptable behaviors. Are there toxic traits? Yes but I’ll argue many are punished/rewarded by women.

Personally I think most of these traits are more under toxic human traits. People will push/reward people behaving badly either because it benefits them to do so.

Most of the men I’vebeen around have been awesome. Strong,protective types who will show emotion/let down their guard with those they are close to/more venerable beings but will protect those the love/care about.

Rod-Molina · 2022-09-29T14:28:31+00:00

It's an umbrella term to describe behaviors and attitudes deemed "masculine" that are ultimately harmful to men, like swallowing your feelings, solving your problems with aggression and violence, just to name a few.

ZekalMacabre · 2022-09-29T15:45:19+00:00

It's a made up term feminists use to villify and put down almost everything a man does but excuse feminists for exactly the same kind of behaviour.

Blauwpetje · 2022-09-29T17:21:28+00:00

I once read that ‘toxic masculinity’ originally meant the unbalanced and unripe masculinity of boys that grew up without a father and overcompensated without even realising what to overcompensate. But of course feminism took the core out of it and what remained was a vague one-size-fits-all vague term to shame men for everything they might do that women, especially feminists, don’t like.

Key_Push_2487 · 2022-09-29T14:21:09+00:00

Toxic masculinity is typically defined by feminism as a set of attitudes and ways of behaving stereotypically associated with or expected of men, regarded as having a negative impact on men and on society as a whole.

tesxtq · 2022-09-29T18:51:08+00:00

Toxic masculinity is the unhealthy ways men channel their aggression. Toxic femininity is also a thing, but nobody talks about it.

short_dude5ft3in · 2022-09-29T17:28:49+00:00

No such thing as toxic masculinity. It’s a made up term to dehumanize, shame, insult, guilt men. They, feminist and people who really pulling the strings, want weak men to easily control the population. Look up camel on the horizon.

WiseBoy_Level100 · 2022-09-29T17:45:30+00:00

Human flaws, but in men.

TDG0922 · 2022-09-29T18:23:29+00:00

Men acting in a way that society and women (but I repeat myself) don't desire... until they desire it

jasonrodrigue · 2022-09-29T19:15:18+00:00

Not being manipulatable by women and society.

Baboon_Stew · 2022-09-29T20:42:18+00:00

Any aspect of being a man that annoys a feminist

god_why · 2022-09-29T21:28:21+00:00

These comments 😂😂😂

Morrighan1129 · 2022-09-29T21:34:36+00:00

It's a catch-all term for whatever thing a guy did that they hate today.

Hold a door open for a woman? Toxic masculinity!

Whistle at a woman? Toxic masculinity!

Offer to pay for the date? Toxic masculinity!

Pinch a woman's ass? Toxic masculinity!

Want a stay at home wife? Toxic masculinity!

Think all women are bitches? Toxic masculinity!

Notice how some of these things are legitimately asshole things, and some are just... things? Yeah. Anything a guy does can be labeled 'toxic masculinity', regardless of what the thing is, why it was done, etc.

liga__privada · 2022-09-29T21:55:25+00:00

It’s a myth. There’s no good or bad masculinity, the modern feminist notion is that masculinity within itself is toxic. Anything they consider “non-toxic masculinity” is just feminine behavior they approve of to make room for them to act masculine and chase clout/career/money. They were told by cosmopolitan and 3rd/4th wave feminism that they too, like a man, can have it all.

fdctrp · 2022-09-29T22:03:49+00:00

Made up term to scare men into submitting to the feminist agenda

Trooper-Man1776 · 2022-09-30T02:16:18+00:00

It's feminist bs. Nothing more, nothing less.

Embarrassed-Lemon-69 · 2022-09-29T15:44:26+00:00

A buzzword to shame men about doing things feminists don’t want them to do.

Take for example, a weight preference.

hp02121 · 2022-09-29T15:35:52+00:00

Toxic masculinity is whatever a woman says it is and her opinion can change from minute to minute

Throwawaydhxj · 2022-09-29T16:33:46+00:00

Idk what woman think of it but have you ever played league of legends with all chat active?

Now that my friend is toxic masculinity

PFfounder · 2022-09-29T15:24:59+00:00

It's what feminist hate to admit that they're secretly attracted to.

SadGruffman · 2022-09-29T15:09:40+00:00

Toxic masculinity is a real thing which this sub prefers to ignore. Using dominance or violence to control or assert superiority over another. Toxic masculinity imho is more of an M v M problem than M v F. Villainizing each other is a control method that The Man uses to keep us down.

Compassion and empathy are humanities greatest tools. Only a real asshole would ignore that, and embrace toxicity.

911Superstore · 2022-09-29T15:48:47+00:00

At its core it is a power play to call all masculinity toxic.

GltyUntlPrvnInncnt · 2022-09-29T17:25:17+00:00

There is no toxic masculinity or femininity. Just harmful gender expectations. Feminists like to use toxic masculinity to shame men.

Sinner12180 · 2022-09-29T17:37:02+00:00

Any traditionally masculine trait that feminists wish to suppress

mimiczx · 2022-09-29T18:11:28+00:00

Anything a man does that subjectively negative in the eyes of women.

Qantourisc · 2022-09-29T18:30:30+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtB2xkm0ANs <= here you go @4:22
"She Asks Jordan Peterson About Toxic Masculinity But Can't Define It"

aigars2 · 2022-09-29T20:03:33+00:00

Buzzword

MiKEY_SANZ · 2022-09-29T20:12:46+00:00

Toxic Masculinity is just bad traits/behavior that are more masculine in nature. Toxic Femininity 100% exists too but because of Misandry if you try to talk about it publicly people just assume you’re bitter.

Feminists/Liberals/The Left use the term as a way to shut men down and shame us. It’s pretty sad

RealButterchu · 2022-09-29T20:15:18+00:00

It’s just a phrase they say when they wanna blame men on a problem, usually one that affects men just as much if not worse than women.

Spirited-Road-4345 · 2022-09-29T21:04:41+00:00

No such thing.

koncernz · 2022-09-30T04:06:32+00:00

A misnomer for masculine toxicity.

Purposefully mislabelled to imply that competitive or aggressive traits are inherently "masculine", so getting out of control with them even more masculine. Thus any kind of violence or bullying is inherently of men.

Even though women are violent and bullies all the time.

I think it's personal opinion whether you consider any trait as masculine or feminine. When a dad talks with his kid, is that feminine? Or if a female manager at work is a great leader, is that masculine? Or is it just traits that people have, even if genders lean one way or another.

But feminists will angrily say traits are never gendered... until they talk about bad behavior. Then it's Masculinity.

Proof_Ad_9776 · 2022-09-30T05:07:06+00:00

It’s the facade of masculinity that stems from insecurity/ego. Mostly manifests as domination, defensiveness, unwarrented aggression, and rejection/devaluation of feminity.

OhSillyDays · 2022-09-29T18:15:10+00:00

Being an asshole. That's all it is.

"He didn't rape you, you were wearing a dress and that asking for sex." Yeaaaaah fuck You rapist.

"You can't show your hair because it makes me horny."

"Your a slut because you have sex but a whore because you won't have sex with me."

"She's just on her period."

A lot of men frame the way they interact with women around their gender, and not them being people. That's mysogistic. It's like every man had his worth based on his bench press weight or dick size.

Being a toxic person, aka asshole, makes them toxic mysogistic.

Masculinity isn't inherently toxic. It's being an asshole that makes it toxic.

gamerlololdude · 2022-09-29T19:48:21+00:00

Read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/xbk44k/im_aware_of_toxic_masculinity_is_there_such_a/io0090f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

This sub doesn’t have many knowledgeable people. You can see this by the way things just get downvoted and people don’t wish to engage in discussion for critical thinking using scholarly views on concepts. They just attack the person or discredit the idea.

I suggest r/menslib or reading sociology textbooks.

The feminist-labeled subs don’t have the patience to respond to questions like the one you posed. especially from people who were socialized through the ruling class ideology. Hence you can get banned or shunned there. Sorry they are just too tired of explaining the same thing you can find in introductory sociology scholarly media. Things like “but the patriarchy is not real, the wage gap is not real, masculinity is not toxic, but what about the draft” and who don’t know what feminism is in depth they just think it’s a bad word the way people don’t understand what communism is and think it’s a bad word. Valid confusions from where you were socialized but there is so much explanations by now you can get yourself educated better than a one sentence comment on reddit will give you.

But the r/menslib is better for discussion.

Regarding my ruling class comment you can learn here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wEBAAt4xxw&t

gramsci is a marxist sociologist from the 1920s and 30s who wrote about why revolutionary movements in the late 1800s and early 1900s failed. he created a concept called "cultural hegemony," which explains why the working class majority, the oppressed and exploited, often fight one another instead of uniting against the ruling class. the ruling class use their control of society to diffuse their ideology throughout the society such that the working class WANT to be like the ruling class, thereby giving their indirect consent to be oppressed and exploited.

The ruling class benefits from keeping men and women in prescribed roles to keep the procreation machine turning and people working getting exploited. It benefits from oppressing women (and really all the stuff if you search up intersectionality wheel).

This sub is like this meme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_LvRPX0rGY&ab_channel=FahQue

Instead of getting educated and understanding the concepts of how society works to work together on fixing the injustices (and remember patriarchy and being right wing hurts men too), people here just restate the same message the ruling class instilled. So we fight against each other.

Azihayya · 2022-09-29T16:39:12+00:00

Unhealthy concepts of what it means to be a man. Like picking on guys for being gay, saying that real men don't cry and thinking that everything that's bad that happens to you is okay because you're a man, and men deal with everything by being tough.

I don't think toxic masculinity isn't a useful idea; I think it's equally viable to define toxic femininity. Women have to deal with women that uphold unhealthy expectations of what it means to be a woman all the time.

When a guy is called a bitch it's because he won't stand up for himself. When a woman is called a bitch it's because she stood up for herself.

Mode1961 · 2022-09-29T16:12:14+00:00

From my perspective as a NON-FEMINIST. We would have to determine what day of the week it is, then decide what the definition is depending on the mood and how much we want to shit on men.

hottake_toothache · 2022-09-29T17:18:32+00:00

A shaming catchphrase to shut men up.

Ciobanesc · 2022-09-29T17:25:12+00:00

I believe that it is pride in being a man's man. You are assertive, you graduated with a STEM degree, you are handsome, you do well in your field. You are everything that they would like to be.

Basketballjuice · 2022-09-29T17:41:24+00:00

Toxic masculinity is a loaded term, I prefer to call it "Toxic traditionalism"

From what I know of current era feminism, toxic masculinity refers to the negative societal ramifications of giving men complete control but also complete responsibility over the world. These ramifications include:

Women not having power over their lives
Men being expected to be strong and take initiative as they have total power over their lives
Women not being taken seriously in work (intelligence, achievements, etc.)
Men not not being taken seriously in life (feelings, trauma, etc.)

It's the logical process of "with great power comes great responsibility" in a world where the people who have power tend to be men.

It has nothing to do with masculinity, just the negative societal ramifications of traditional gender ideology, hence why I prefer to refer to it as "Toxic Traditionalism".

Your_Agenda_Sucks · 2022-09-29T17:51:21+00:00

"Toxic masculinity" is a phrase that is redefined for every context in which a female supremacist has a problem to complain about. The source of every problem is obviously going to be men, so they need a flexible term which applies to all problems caused by all actors in every situation, and the term that they have selected is "toxic masculinity".

Use of this term is a leading indicator for intellectual laziness.

SuspiciousGrievances · 2022-09-29T19:25:10+00:00

What ever definition is convenient for them at the time.

BoTheJoV3 · 2022-09-29T16:12:23+00:00

probably will get downvoted here.

Walter White is a good example. His pride, ego, greed, and insecurity prevented him from living a better life. He refused the costly cancer treatment from his old friends. He wasn't happy with what he had. He always wanted more.

It's basically when a man does something wrong (often for a long stretch of time or passed down in the family) and someone else doesn't like it.

WingsofSky · 2022-09-29T16:26:52+00:00

Some men are filled with hate, anger, rage and all sorts of vile behavior. It's the same with some of the women in this world as well.

Not sure of the cause. But it's just ugly to deal with people like that.

batescommamaster · 2022-09-29T15:56:10+00:00

I think the best example and certainly the one I've seen the most is men (or boys) bragging about their sexual exploits.

I don't know if anyone else here has read Elliot Rodgers manifesto but one prominent thread of his story is that just about everyone man and boy around him since puberty was bragging about the girls they had been with or were with, and bullying Elliot for being bad with girls.

There's on part in particular where Elliot is being virgin bullied not just be a couple a dudes, but also being laughed at by the gaggle of girls orbiting the bullies. Elliot remarks that the girls' laughter hurt him way worse then the male bullys'.

I've noticed it plenty in real life. It can be kind of annoying when you know personally know that a certain dude chases women purely for the sex, and watch him succeed even though I would consider his attitude toxic and objectifying.

Not complaining about how women choose partners, (I would also call that toxic masculinity). I don't think most men that are good with women are like that, just that it's kind of annoying when it does happen.

The9thElement · 2022-09-29T14:41:51+00:00

Masculinity that is toxic. Not all masculinity is toxic. Some examples of tocix masculinity are aggression, violence, suppressing feelings to seem masculine, not asking for help to seem masculine, etc.

My father is toxically masculine. 2 years ago there was a snake in our house, my dad was unable to kill it. My grandmother suggested we call my bigger and stronger uncle who could probably kill it with ease. My dad was repulsed by this idea because it seemed so emasculating. But I don’t blame him, I get it. I blame toxic masculinity that demonized men needing help.

BlackXSwanXPrince · 2022-09-29T15:02:04+00:00

I believe "toxic masculinity," at least, the way that it is used in postmodern Feminism, describes an expression of the male sex thay is primarily based upon Western male ideal archetypes. For instance. Army Grunt, Marine, Marine. Of course, womanly wiles are primarily based on subtle emotional manipulation, and males tend to be focused on physicality.

LordMaska · 2022-09-29T15:11:45+00:00

Say what you want about the guy but Andrew Tate explains it perfectly in this video Toxic Masculinity

short_dude5ft3in · 2022-09-29T17:36:50+00:00

The people providing “help” to men who needs it are products of woke universities who were “educated” with misandrist professors. Plain and simple. That’s why it’s not effective

Antarkian · 2022-09-29T19:29:36+00:00

To a feminist.....it's simply a matter of just, "having a penis". To everyone else, it's peice of shit abusive guys who are weak minded and insecure, so they manipulate you to make themselves feel better. Basically its the same as toxic femininity.

motorbird88 · 2022-09-29T14:54:35+00:00

When men get bullied for not acting masculine.

pnoecker · 2022-09-29T15:30:54+00:00

It's when a woman stops acting feminine, and becomes a feminist. See big red....

Mubly · 2022-09-29T22:34:37+00:00

All these comments are so shitty man.

Toxic masculinity is being overly aggressive to people just cause it’s manly.

It’s being mean and cold to your children because that’s how men should be

It’s talking down to women because they’re beneath you

It’s ignoring problems and blaming everyone else

It’s thinking you are owed certain things because you’re a man.

It’s raising your kids along a narrow path, boys play with guns, girls play with dolls

It’s other men telling you to grow up or grow some balls when you have mental problems

It’s you belittling your own issues because they aren’t manly

Toxic masculinity is a summarization of negative traits a lot of men have because they think that’s how they should be. It’s not some BS made up word by feminists looking to shit on you, it’s you and other men shitting on yourselves

DeddestNash · 2022-09-29T15:33:01+00:00

A term to define actual toxic traits that are deemed more masculine such as violence, dominance, and repressed feelings. All these traits harm the individual commiting it as well as those around them.

Additionally a term that has been hijacked and deemed without a real term by certain people and feminists, as it is used for impact (and not for its definition) in order to undermine a man's arguement and discussion around feminism (sometimes not even then).

WTFOMGBBQ · 2022-09-29T17:17:47+00:00

Toxic masculinity can be easily replaced with, "toxic person". The traits assigned to "toxic masculinity" can be assigned to any gender.

One might claim, boys bullying boys in school is an example of toxic masculinity. Girls also bully girls, often times physical as well.

One might claim, mens/boys can be homophobic and gay bashers. Women can also be homophobic and gay bashers.

One might claim, men judge each other on their toughness and expect each other to be tough guys and harass the ones that arent. Women also encourage this behavior amongst men and expectations.

Toxic masculinity might be defined as men not wanting to help other people because it's their problem not mine. you know what im goign to type here so I wont.

It's not toxic masculinity, its toxic people.

qwrrty · 2022-09-29T18:41:07+00:00

Toxic masculinity is the phenomenon of building a male identity (whether consciously or unconsciously) around the unhealthiest behavior patterns thought of as “masculine” — eg remaining aloof and distant from other men in order not to seem “gay”, avoiding emotionally intimate relationships with women because it’s threatening to access your vulnerability, valorizing violence and physical power over negotiation and collaboration, etc.

This kind of behavior is described as “toxic” to distinguish it from simple masculinity, to emphasize that simply being a man is not inherently problematic, but rather the kind of behavior that you associate with masculinity can produce toxic relationships if not examined closely.

TessaBrooding · 2022-09-29T22:33:45+00:00

According to the first google result (Oxford): “a set of attitudes and ways of behaving stereotypically associated with or expected of men, regarded as having a negative impact on men and on society as a whole.”

Personal examples that come to mind: - “I’m not bringing Campari to the party, my mates will think I’m gay” - injured man insisting on carrying groceries up the stairs so that his daughter doesn’t have to carry them for him, worsening his injury - being salty because your GF makes more money instead of being proud of your partner’s success - acting openly proud of your incompetence regarding “feminine tasks” like housechores, cooking, and childcare (or at least not being ashamed of how much you would suck at them if you actually ever did them) - going to the pub with your mates for 20 years but still drowning your anxiety in alcohol because “men don’t discuss their feelings”

In short, any shitty behaviour you do because you think it’s “being a man”.

Similarly, toxic femininity would be: - acting clueless around car maintenance and housework so that someone else does it (anyone with half a brain can assemble a shelf) - arriving “fashionably late” - “I’m not like other girls” - being invasive and controlling because “I’m your (grand)mother and I know what’s best for you” - giving the silent treatment while clearly angry and saying nothing’s wrong - expecting preferential treatment from examiners/boss because you dressed up

Hope that clears it up for you.

HaelenHaagen · 2022-09-29T23:08:33+00:00

I wouldn't say it's a term but rather a way of being. In my opinion toxic masculinity is the same thing with toxic femininity. In other words, toxic behaviour is toxic regardless of whether men or women do it.

The only difference is masculine and feminine. Toxicity it's just a displayed behaviour that's gone to an extreme. example: Men have the tendencies to dominate the environment but if they do it with any price regardless of how they affect anyone else that's toxicity.

Women have the tendencies to be agreeable, manipulative and as far as my observations and knowledge goes, they're meant to be likeable, and use their manipulative techniques to let's say avoid conflict between pack members, or allure their mate and seduce them

Now if women use these traits to exploit men's resources, lie, cheat and stir conflict between pack members that's toxic to me.

P.S. We live in a weird society that has disrespected everything and anything including language and the meaning of words. Words that used to be used in proper circumstances like: love, hatred, starvation, abuse, and so on... doesn't mean anything anymore.

It's all about how people feel about something, not about what happened

I hope this made some sense let me know what are your thoughts

fugelwoman · 2022-09-30T07:52:37+00:00

This is toxic masculinity https://twitter.com/jmrphy/status/1570912935735697408?s=46&t=4FQDT4mWy3ymBrhIKNj96w

HannibalsProtege · 2022-09-29T15:52:50+00:00

Toxic masculinity is a negative mindset commandeered by feminist movements to depict farcical behavior, some predatory mannerisms, or juvenile practices as common traits in all men today.

In my opinion -- just mine -- real toxic masculinity is the idolization of being an Alpha Male, and negatively reinforcing stereotypes to the point of shaming other men for not adhering to a strict doctrine of masculinity.

I see this all over Twitter where peddlers will hawk their E-books on how to make yourself a better man, and only highlight a few negative aspects in order to make a point. If you play videogames, drink alcohol, smoke weed (while dismissing cigarettes), don't uphold Christian values, don't read books, are not disciplined in semen retention, engage in promiscuous sex, watch porn -- you're not masculine/a man.

These are all cherry picked points that these e-books highlight in order to sell you a product. There are some accredited points I can agree with (exercising, eating better, lifting weights) but most are just meant to sway your mindset into buying into their cult like mantra.

There is no one way to define what masculinity is as a whole. It is something personal to each of us born men (T-men simply will not understand this), it is up to us individually, and we shouldn't allow someone else to dictate what it means to us either. We can share amongst the collective while directing those who are in need of guidance, a helping hand, mentorship, or just a friend. We are not a miserable pile of secrets and lies.

TL;DR: Toxic masculinity is a negative reinforcement of "Alpha Male," doctrine that is paraded by feminist organizations for the demonizing of men; while also being supported by men who want to sell you an e-book.

TapatioRamen123 · 2022-09-29T15:25:18+00:00

Oxford wilding out, here’s the online definition: “a set of attitudes and ways of behaving stereotypically associated with or expected of men, regarded as having a negative impact on men and on society as a whole.”

Very improper way of defining it myself, especially using “stereotypically” and “expected” as a part of it. I’d say it’s better:

(1) a set of attitudes and ways of behaving using only power, violence dominance etc as a means of reasoning, regarded as having a negative impact on men and on society as a whole.

(2) Also a coined term in 4th wave feminism used to dismiss the male and non-female voice.

sparkydoggowastaken · 2022-09-29T18:30:34+00:00

society making men act like manly people

its really not good

StableStarStuff2964 · 2022-09-29T20:06:40+00:00

I’d say that, when a man shows signs of, “toxic masculinity,” the man is genuinely misogynistic. Looks down on women, as if they’re a lower being, a second class citizen, if you will.. He believes that men rule the roost no matter what, that he should obtain whatever he desires whenever he sees fit (ex: sandwiches, beer, sex, comfort). A toxically masculine human would not understand the value in earning someone’s respect, especially that of a woman. He would, instead, expect respect from the get-go, which is, in reality, disrespectful to all who he would encounter on a daily basis.

Many (like insane amounts of) men are wrongfully labeled with this term.And they’re done so for defending themselves against assailants, toxic feminists, or simply speaking their mind on miscellaneous matters.

The term, “toxic masculinity,” is, now, often seen as any man who exhibits stereotypically manly traits and/or behavior.

It’s fucked up.

grizzlybear787 · 2022-09-29T15:12:15+00:00

Its something like- humans are toxic. But lets solely focus on the toxicity in men because thats the only part thats of interest to us. Out of an underlying belief that the only circumstance in which women are toxic is when they are made to be so - (by men- who else?) Something like that. Its an abdication of responsibility with a simultaneous sexist perception of the world.

Beneath all of it is a toxic smearing of relationship boundaries, and separation of rights vs responsibilities. My 0.02. If someone has a better understanding of the idea please share.

Afro-Leftist · 2022-09-29T15:38:10+00:00

The actual definition is "a set of attitudes and ways of behaving stereotypically associated with or expected of men, regarded as having a negative impact on men and on society as a whole." The reason its hard to give examples of is that the behaviors are usually nebulous and not concrete. The same issue exists for describing toxic femininity exist. Its just easier for women to spot toxic masculinity in the same way its easier for men to spot toxic femininity. The main power imbalance in these conversation is that women tend to be better at nuance and emotional intelligence so in most conversations with most men most women have the upper hand in debates but the facts are pretty similar for both sides.

Suka87 · 2022-09-29T15:39:53+00:00

When you sit down and have your legs spread out.

kanaka_maalea · 2022-09-29T16:17:37+00:00

Anything and everything a man does, thinks, and says when the person applying the term to the man is simultaneously a feminist and doesn't like you.

Upset-Noise8910 · 2022-09-29T16:23:08+00:00

to give a more neutral answer, to me its someone who is overtly masculine & makes it their personality. Someone who doesn't let their feelings show, refuses to wear pink, etc. Usually very self destructive.

WinTheDell · 2022-09-29T19:57:24+00:00

The best definitions I’ve seen appear to be around the idea of excessive stoicism to the detriment of self.

Nothing really wrong with tacking the problem of excessive stoicism; the problem is that it isn’t exclusively a masculine trait and treating it as such does not help excessively stoical women very much. The two most emotionally illiterate people I have met were women. One is having a massive identity crisis and the other killed herself.

Immediate_Tea5867 · 2022-09-29T20:16:44+00:00

Seeing feminine traits or systemically socialized feminine traits as bad, weak etc. To uphold and congratulate masculine traits or systemically socialized masculine traits. When there is obviously no need for it as u can be appreciative of both without causing harm.

fzappa714 · 2022-09-29T20:19:51+00:00

Excellent question. Very subjective, but I’m going with Steve McQueen in Bullet.

URMOMis91 · 2022-09-29T20:20:39+00:00

There is nothing as toxic masculinity lol in fact they made it to blame us for everything 😂 and as u can see they didn't make the word 'toxic femininity', I personally would use that word against them 😂😂

URMOMis91 · 2022-09-29T20:24:06+00:00

There is nothing as toxic masculinity lol in fact they made it to blame us for everything 😂 and as u can see they didn't make the word 'toxic femininity', I personally would use that word against them 😂😂

zoxzoxzo · 2022-09-29T20:48:23+00:00

Don't worry, these modern feminists don't know either. That is their go-to umbrela word that they pull out of their butthole whenever they can't provide legit argument for something (which is almost always the case).

Fraktalchen · 2022-09-29T20:50:28+00:00

Ist vague and I mostly observed this in environments, where males have to spend their time involuntary.

Places such as School, compulsary military, low class jobs where many males gather in a tight space. It usually manifest as stupid behaviors, dumb jokes, bullying, manliness rituals and emotional/thougthless behaviors without considering the consequences.

Seems to disappear in academics, engineering jobs Ort other profession with high complexity

One_Ad_3499 · 2022-09-29T20:51:50+00:00

Man must be strong and emotionless all the time They must show any sign of weakness. They must look like a model from mana magazine or they are failures. But for feminists, that term means anything I don't like... It's like Black lives matter. We can all agree that black lives like any lives do matter, but an organization with the same twisted meaning of that phrase means something else.

almostadaddy · 2022-09-29T21:18:20+00:00

Every feminist talks about it but I don't think I've ever heard a proper definition. So what does this term mean?

There is no proper definition. It is a phrase with no meaning which has been specifically concocted to sound like something bad.

“The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable" -- George Orwell.

PonderonDonuts · 2022-09-29T21:46:06+00:00

Being a man.

SayHiToMyNicemn · 2022-09-29T22:02:59+00:00

I once saw a list of attributes include self sufficiency

CommonAd9065 · 2022-09-29T22:10:25+00:00

when men feel too much (unwanted) pressure to be strong. often confused with (by feminists) when men set boundaries, simply enjoying working out and wanting to look after those around them

matrixislife · 2022-09-29T22:26:54+00:00

It's a made up fantasy concept for the purpose of putting men down, that people seem to obsess over instead of just ignoring it and ridiculing it when someone insists on discussing it.

owlsareclever · 2022-09-29T22:31:36+00:00

I’ve always thought the term refers to negative behaviour that men can show, usually constructed by other men/ society as a whole, with men kind of victim to this too - I guess like lad culture, the whole boys don’t cry narrative

shoetreemoon · 2022-09-29T22:43:35+00:00

Whatever feminists (women and men) say it is, on whatever day of the week they want, in whatever month it is, in any given year.

want-to-say-this · 2022-09-30T00:17:13+00:00

Anything a man does in any unique situation that a woman dislikes will be framed as toxic.

"He opened the door for me like I can't open doors he thinks he is better....."

"He didn't even open the door for me, men are trash......"

A women's prerogative applies to all things at all times.

pennywise1235 · 2022-09-30T00:31:06+00:00

It’s when you object or offer an opinion, no matter how minuscule the topic of conversation, you are using toxicity because reasons…

Mask_Dbater · 2022-09-30T00:59:38+00:00

It's the supposed entitlement associated with being a man.

Pursuing status, competition, money, women are looked down upon with this phrasing. Toxic masculinity is used to bash anything that men do.

capitanMorgan89 · 2022-09-30T01:09:43+00:00

Jordan Peterson said it doesn’t exist.

Junior-Block-2719 · 2022-09-30T02:24:04+00:00

Apparently from what I’ve seen and heard, men that are dominate, assertive, all about their business, having an abundance of women, standing firm in their beliefs, defending themselves, having standards etc. are what is considered to be toxically masculine, despite todays women trying to have these same type of traits and success as men, but it’s not considered toxic only when women do it apparently

wanthonio31 · 2022-09-30T02:45:32+00:00

it doesn't exist, it's always been vague when I've seen it applied

Jarboner69 · 2022-09-30T02:48:47+00:00

It's the same as toxic femininity, basically shaming other people for not being ripped, fulfilling traditional roles, "masculine", etc. Feminists see it as a impediment to them since it just reinforces traditional gender roles.

iainmf · 2022-09-30T02:57:35+00:00

It doesn't really matter what feminists say 'toxic masculinity' is. There's a difference between what people say it means and how people actually use the term.

I think the most revealing thing is how people respond to the problem of 'toxic masculinity'. The proposed solution to 'toxic masculinity' is nearly always is re-educating men. Men are supposed to 'unlearn' toxic masculinity. If these are the proposed solutions, then the definition of 'toxic masculinity' must be a problem that men have that needs to be fixed.

So when feminist talk about 'toxic masculinity' they are saying men are a problem that needs to be fixed.

mmpie3 · 2022-09-30T03:16:25+00:00

Can I just say, as a woman, there is no proper definition, it varies depending on who you're talking to and it's infuriating. I've heard people define it as completely contradictory things in the same conversation.

rabel111 · 2022-09-30T03:38:14+00:00

"Toxic masculinity" is hate speech, a term better known for its offensive and abusive use than its meaning, a term with little or no useful purpose other than to deliberately offend, used by sexist pigs to denigrate men and masculinity.

Ninjhetto · 2022-09-30T03:47:02+00:00

Supposedly masculine personality traits that are extremely disrespectful or bad. Technically excessively and stereotypically masculine in a negative way, not that being masculine is toxic. I would say that toxic masculinity is violent and in your face compared to toxic femininity being behind your back and manipulative.

TFME1 · 2022-09-30T04:44:49+00:00

Whatever pisses off, insults, offends or injures (think broken nails and stubbed toes) a woman, at any given time. Probably misogynistic, too (for misogynistic see definition above).

/s

Weak_Distribution822 · 2022-09-30T05:07:54+00:00

I think it's matter of convenience, when its convenient for fems it's called being a man, and when its not, it's toxic masculinity

Archangel1313 · 2022-09-30T06:26:05+00:00

Overt expressions of male chauvinism. Basically, when a man takes his masculinity to such an extreme, that he becomes a walking caricature of every hostile and annoying stereotype that men can possess.

msennello · 2022-09-30T07:05:57+00:00

It's a Motte and Bailey used to cover for the fact that feminism long ago became open and wildly extreme misandry.

Sad-Crazy1250 · 2022-09-30T09:09:01+00:00

In reality there is nothing like toxic masculinity.. masculinity is divine and so is feminity.. there r toxic men and toxic women.. but I see a huge movement targeting men.. any woman who takes masculinity and projecting it as toxic is infact a toxic person

dont-believe-me- · 2022-09-30T09:20:59+00:00

To answer the weird auto bot mod pinned here, how soft penis skin is on men and trans women.

hshsgdve · 2022-09-30T09:59:59+00:00

Not being controllable.

Graham_Zezar · 2022-09-30T12:22:55+00:00

There is no thing like toxic masculinity People are toxic, being a man isn't

KingMaegorTheCool · 2022-09-30T13:34:25+00:00

To explain with an unbias view, since masculinity is a set of behaviors and practices that have been traditionally associated with men and manhood in a culture, toxic masculinity is a loose term used to refer to a subset of those behaviors which are considered harmful or destructive to other people and yourself. Toxic masculinity is heavily linked to domination, violence, intimidation, control behavior, emotional detachment, and hyper-competitiveness, all things that make you manly, in a sense, as well as the objectification of women and predatory sexual behavior. Toxic masculinity is also the fear of feeling emasculated, to look unmanly, to look feminine, so it is also associated with homophobia and misogyny. People who are using these terms aren't saying being manly is bad, just that some aspects of masculine culture can be harmful to yourself and others.

traveller1976 · 2022-09-30T13:53:19+00:00

There is no proper definition that's the whole point. It's an umbrella term to label any male behavior or self defense that opposes the total domination of women in society. Any bitch uses this term run for the hills.

Material-Ad-637 · 2022-09-30T21:33:24+00:00

Doing shit that hurts you, because it's manly

Like not wearing hearing protection working a jack hammer

FireFighterP55 · 2023-01-09T18:24:39+00:00

"No matter what men go through, it will ALWAYS be their own fault."

FireFighterP55 · 2023-01-20T04:49:53+00:00

Unpopular Opinion: If you hear about an issue a man faces and your first instinct is to yell, "F@ck Toxic Masculinity!" All that tells me is you're more concerned with the kind of man he'll become from the trauma he's experienced and you've victim blamed onto him than the people (women in many cases) that hurt him.

When a man is hurt, many are afraid of him being pushed one step closer to a monster who will take out his anger and trauma onto innocent people. While doing the pushing themselves by yelling about toxic gibberish as opposed to the fact he's hurt by someone and he didn't wish his pain on himself.

Tldr; it means whatever the narrative says it means.

Plus, it's very hypocritical in many cases. A man with a huge, destructive temper is embracing toxic masculinity, and yet a woman with the same temper is fully justified in who she is.

HappyAndProud · 2023-01-24T19:06:50+00:00

Personally, I would approximately define it as society letting men get away with certain toxic traits, because they're "just boys being boys". Something along those lines.

Glittering-Mixture66 · 2023-02-04T04:13:02+00:00

For the people who claim it is bad and toxic that men aren’t taught to be all emotional, Where exactly is any evidence her it’s beneficial to them? Where is any data that it’s beneficial when men are encouraged to cry and be sensitive, showing emotions and being “not toxic”, is since toxic masculinity is a crock of shit anyway

Title	What exactly is toxic masculinity?
Author	michalv2000
Upvotes	359
Comments	365
Date	September 29, 2022 2:14 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xr8y9a/what_exactly_is_toxic_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-exactly-is-toxic-masculinity.1208657 https://theredarchive.com/post/1208657

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