Creep shaming

prodigy2throw · 2017-12-11T15:24:18+00:00

The only real solution is for men to become more attractive.

BisquitBill · 2017-12-11T14:25:38+00:00

The "problem" exists, I will acknowledge that, but the question here is what do males generally want to happen as a solution and why would this magical solution work? If someone wants to "creepy shame" another person, how are they going to be stopped?

So, the problem is that you are hit on by unattractive creepy men when you want only attractive, high-status moneyed chads to you approach you.

Is that correct?

says_harsh_things · 2017-12-11T14:55:41+00:00

You can't police any kind of social behavior. All you can do as an individual is to reinforce behavior you like and call out behavior you don't.

If I hear a girl call a guy 'creepy', I'll usually ask what specifically about him makes him creepy. Her answers usually make it pretty obvious if he is showing real danger signs or if she us just being petty and feels inconvenienced by his presence. Its a pretty passive-aggressive way of shaming the behavior.

a_mans_perspective · Mon Dec 11 16:09:59 2017 UTC

It's not an actual "problem" - women enjoy being the choosers, the passive party who gets to sit back and label some men as ok, some as not good enough, some as disgusting, some as creeps etc.

Not that they enjoy being approached by the creeps, but that's a necessary component of being the one who passively screens candidates instead of initiating. Some candidates will not pass muster

soulopolobmorts · 2017-12-11T15:26:58+00:00

There is no macro-level solution.

As long as men are expected and encouraged to be the initiators, women will sometimes have the problem of "creepy" guys approaching them, and men will sometimes have the problem of being that "creepy" guy and being made to feel disgusting. It is inevitable.

Men who complain are usually just irritated at women "preemptively" shaming and hating on men. I've seen women spew some vitriol that is basically the equivalent of what the incel stereotype would post, and it can be pretty disheartening.

It would be nice if, on an individual level, women were a bit more sympathetic to men in this regard, but I think we rationally understand that "creep shaming" is a necessary protection mechanism for women.

Eastuss · 2017-12-11T15:10:07+00:00

and is usually used when a male extends or far exceeds past a boundary.

"strangers shouldn't talk to me" is not a boundary that should be taken as seriously as "people should not touch me" and "people should not touch my sexual parts"

blackedoutfast · 2017-12-11T18:23:56+00:00

forget all the bs about wanting to improve society and gender relations and all that. the real reason all these incel/blackpill types are latching onto this "omg but if i approach a girl i'll get creep-shamed!" hypothetical issue because it gives them an excuse to not approach women.

their real problem is that they have approach anxiety and are simply terrified of talking to women.

instead of facing their fear and gaining more experience and confidence by going out and approaching strangers, they just keep telling themselves that if they tried they would fail and then get creep-shamed.

i get that it's embarassing and could hurt your feelings if you work up the nerve to approach a girl and she calls you a creep. but seriously. you're worrying about some random stranger mildly insulting you. it's really lame.

storffish · 2017-12-11T15:18:38+00:00

the problem with the creepy thing is it usually boils down to the guy's failure to read nonverbal cues. if a chick hasn't looked your way or given any kind of signal for you to approach, or if you approach when she is using closed-off "don't fuck with me" body language, you're breaking an unspoken code.

this is tough for guys to digest if they don't "naturally" get it. our natural response is to try and evaluate ourself against our visual impression of the chick who just rejected us: "is she really that much hotter than me?" in most cases no, she's not. most guys (speaking for myself mostly here) will not approach women who they believe to be significantly more attractive than them, so that leaves the "creep" even more confused because by all visual measures she's in "his league."

the key thing to understand is just how much of female sexual communication is nonverbal. women "speak" in signals, and if you haven't gotten any but you approach anyway you're violating social norms. you're showing that you either don't speak her language or don't care, and that registers as a red flag to her. I hear guys claim that they've "never gotten a signal" before all the time and that's a big indicator to me that they just can't read nonverbal cues and are probably not that socially astute generally. once you know what to look for, chicks (as long as you actually go out and have a social life and expose yourself to women) give them out all the time and also make it pretty damn obvious when they want to be left alone.

Orange_Paisley · 2017-12-11T17:35:20+00:00

Some behavior is legitimately creepy no matter how attractive you are. Sending unsolicited dick pics, for example. Standing too close. Leering at a woman's body instead of looking her in the face. Don't do these things. Please.

frightynight · 2017-12-11T16:45:26+00:00

As women we can stand up for the guy when our friends creep shame him.

notworthmuch20xx · 2017-12-11T17:36:24+00:00

Creep shaming shaming, obviously

SO_Medic · 2017-12-11T19:13:05+00:00

How the Fuck does the problem exist. Men and women have been fucking and populating the earth for a thousand years now its a problem because you dont like it. For fuck sake

LifterofThings · 2017-12-11T19:15:04+00:00

idk, I feel like the first rejection should be gracious and compassionate. If he doesn't take the first hint (and by "hint" I don't mean subtle. I mean "I'm flattered but not available/interested") then he's asking for it.

honeypuppy · 2017-12-11T19:19:05+00:00

While there are some unreasonable creep-shamers, I think the trope of "it's just lookism" is misguided and possibly dangerous. It can definitely be a rationalisation to downplay genuinely creepy behaviour.

darla10 · 2017-12-11T14:29:54+00:00

Guy [to girl who is creep shaming him]: "I apologize if I've made you uncomfortable. That was not my intention." End of story.

Afroaway002 · 2017-12-11T16:48:05+00:00

Creepy behaviour should only be behaviour that ignores another person's indications that whatever you are doing is unwanted or behaviour that's completely out of the accepted social norms. So the solution to "creep-shaming" would be for everyone to only use the word in that way and not overextend it. That's obviously never gonna happen, people use words in ways they were not intended all the time.

So I'm not sure there is a solution or if it's even needed. I guess the next best thing is to make people more aware of the fact that creepy can and occasionally is used unfairly.

DB605 · 2017-12-12T01:36:35+00:00

The question is a non starter because you're asking a group of people who are being disenfranchised what they'd prefer to have as a solution, which is a silly question because the obvious solution is simply to have women stop doing it. But of course they won't stop doing it because A) that requires good faith towards your fellow man which works on an individual basis and B) would require men have the ability or force to either censor or restrict women's opinions, which is far beyond us at this point time and technology.

Maybe if we lived in The Handmaid's Tale or something...

jtown8673877158 · 2017-12-12T15:56:42+00:00

if they were seen as attractive

Of course the reception you expect to receive is part of being a basic decent human being. Ignoring that is almost one of the definitions of being a creep. You can't separate the behavior from the context it happens in.

jax006 · 2017-12-11T14:46:57+00:00

I don't think there is a solution because I don't think this is a "problem" this is quite simply humans being douches to each other, specifically in the context of a flirting rejection or something. Not really much different than all the other ways people are dicks to eachother in life.

LewisCross · 2017-12-11T14:26:10+00:00

If someone wants to "creepy shame" another person, how are they going to be stopped?

The same way you stop slut shaming, which no longer exists. You normalize it, and you stop calling it out. Sluts and slutting around are normal. So it is, or will be, with "creeps".

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wekacuck · 2017-12-11T14:54:08+00:00

I don't have a problem with the double standard angle of it. People can have different boundaries with different people and it's pretty ridiculous to expect uniform boundaries.

When I think about instances of "creep shaming" that actually bother me, it's instances where it's as if I've accidentally tapped an underground high-pressure water line and someone's venting all sorts of accumulated frustrations at me about other creeps based on nothing relevant to me. I can sometimes get caught up defending myself in those things but I'm trying to just walk away instead.

Maybe tell people they've crossed a boundary and give people a chance to stop before unleashing the creep barrage. I think it's interesting how I've seen you tell people to stop talking to you a few times (and they ignore it unfortunately). I haven't seen you unleash a creep on them in those instances yet, but it would be justified IMHO.

SkookumTree · 2017-12-11T15:54:51+00:00

Hey, what's a "creep"? Seems like there's a piss-poor definition of this. Do creeps have to be making advances and trying to get with women?

Leinadro · 2017-12-11T19:45:43+00:00

Stop using the language of creep to hide behind when you (metaphorical "you" not you specifically OP) want to criticize a guy or blow him off.

passepar2t · 2017-12-12T01:31:38+00:00

what do males generally want to happen

Women should be conscientious and voluntarily not abuse the creep label.

If someone wants to "creepy shame" another person, how are they going to be stopped?

They aren't. There's no magic solution except maybe reducing free speech, which is unthinkable. The problem will persist because it's based on the honor system.

segagaga · 2017-12-12T03:18:48+00:00

I've been called creepy a few times in my life, and all I have ever done to deserve that is simply be different/abnormal/non-neurotypical by virtue of being HoH from birth. It adds an artificial behavioural barrier that some women are quick to misinterpret. I don't ever get a choice to not be deaf, so it can feel quite unfair sometimes.

If it can happen to me, you bet your ass it can happen to some poor Joe who just happened to be over-keen or a bit socially awkward in a given situation.

caesarfecit · 2017-12-12T09:11:08+00:00

Its a boy-who-cried-wolf problem.

The real problem is women have learned that creep-shaming men is power, and as a result throw the term around like it's going out of style. The same way that calling people racist at the drop of a hat is ubiquitous in certain circles.

See this is one of the areas where I think feminism totally failed. Women need a code of honor of sorts, somewhere in between chivalry and the bro code. And I suspect it would revolve around the use and misuse of social leverage. Women are just as hungry as men, if not more, for power and influence - and they're often better at getting it. That's where Mean Girls comes from. And I think it's in women's best interest to develop a moral code about how that social power ought to be used, and how it should not be misused.

The reason why this matters is that's the kind of thing that separates women from girls.

[deleted] · 2017-12-12T09:39:39+00:00

It's up to those guys to become more attractive and modify their behaviour if they care about this so much. If they just act like the world should change for them they're no better than SJWs.

MisterJose · 2017-12-13T16:20:09+00:00

There's a tremendous lack of awareness that seems very unnecessary to me, and a little lazy. It's like someone approaching economics and world problems with the thought that, "Whatever feels like the best answer is automatically the best answer!" Um, no, your emotions are quite poor at a lot of that. You need to think, not feel, or else people are going to suffer.

Same here: Just because something feels creepy doesn't mean you're absolved from thinking and being mindful of the flaws of your own emotional reactions. You're gonna hurt people that way. I have never in my life heard a woman say, "It felt creepy, but I realized it was because I was physically repulsed by him, and also because his insecurity over his looks caused him to overcompensate in how he approached me." It's just always, "I'm a woman and you made me feel bad, so that's always entirely on you and my feelings are always truth...but also equality." My grudges form personal experience are showing there, but I think my point is still valid.

AlanHalworth · 2017-12-11T15:35:42+00:00

Regarding the hypothesis that creeps are any guys who are not rich Chads. Obviously there is nothing to be done about some men being more attractive than others. But, one problem is that some men near the bottom of the income heap are jobless and are screwing up the social structure for everyone else. Poor women are creeped by the jobless men; Middle class women are creeped by poor men; etc.

The government should provide a universal income for men and women. Families with a man and a woman should be given more money than families with just a woman. That way, all men are potentially contributors to a family's income and they will become less "creepy." As jobs are lost to robots, this problem will potentially become worse and worse. (Note, I am in the U.S. For all I know this is how it works in Europe.)

purpleppp · 2017-12-12T00:37:08+00:00

Given that there's a surplus of male attention on most women, it makes sense for women to collectively creep-shame men (by attractiveness) to discourage men they're not attracted to from approaching. I don't think it's wrong unless it rises to the level of public humiliation. In that case it would be kinda shitty.

Plopolok · 2017-12-11T14:47:11+00:00

I don't have any good universal solution, but just a suggestion which might help in some cases: don't silently endure a creep creeping on you then complain to your friends. Tell him, as soon as possible, that you have no interest in him and want him to stay away. If possible, add an advice on how to improve himself for the next girl, but that part is tricky. (Creeps don't meet many girls nice enough to give them any advice so they might start adoring you, and often they're NiceGuys so the best advice would be tell them to become BadBoys, which is hard to formulate).

mydikishomofobik · 2017-12-11T23:11:08+00:00

If a woman thinks I'm a creep then she can stay the fuck away from me. I don't deal with wasting-time-b-words. I'll be in Thailand or Africa banging 18 year olds for $20 a pop, or looking for an 18 year old young and legal wife who doesn't have any children from other men who I don't want to put up with.

When women talk that "creep" bullshit it is usually based on their own fee-fee feewings, and emotional problems and doesn't have anything to do with anyone else. It's funny how the places with the least aggressive men seem to have the whiniest women that see "creeps" around every corner.

A man could be completely minding his own business and some of them will be bitching about "creeeeep". "Look at that creeeeeeeeep going to the bank and not even looking at me, he must be planning to rape me". That's why they're wasting-time-b-words. Not even giving me any pussy but still trying to project their mental problems on me. I don't have time for that. I got a world of pussy to fuck.

angels_fan · 2017-12-12T03:50:02+00:00

Instead of spending millions on manspreading campaigns, how about feminists actually campaign against something that women do to men??

LooksMatterToWomen · 2017-12-11T15:43:35+00:00

Solution? More public awareness that this problem is indeed real, not just some manosphere fantasy.

Title	Creep shaming
Author	Electra_Cute
Upvotes	18
Comments	378
Date	December 11, 2017 2:22 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7j2grv/creep_shaming/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/creep-shaming.264526 https://theredarchive.com/post/264526

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