[–]LysanderAegisRed(ish) Pill Man 22 points23 points24 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHYA man with a fetish for dominating patriarchal men 🥵 4 points5 points6 points 5 months ago (20 children) | Copy Link

we realize that the destruction of civil society (and Western civilization in general) is a bad thing

The countries where women have strong rights (i.e. where feminism reigns) are the richest, nicest, best societies humans have ever lived in. There's tons of food, we have the ability to travel anywhere on the globe, we have advanced medicine, and normal people have access to more cultural content than kings or emperors in the past.

By contrast, the "traditional" societies you're idealizing were populated with mentally retarded people who couldn't feed themselves, died from all sorts of stupid, easy to cure (for us) diseases, who couldn't keep their kids alive, and who couldn't figure out slavery being bad.

The only advantage of "traditional" societies over modern societies is that a woman probably would have had to fuck you even if she didn't want to in 1800. And I think it says a lot that you're so willing to force a woman to fuck you that you'd go back to the dark ages to make that happen.

Widespread adoption of feminism is one of the strongest indicators that a country is an advanced, wealthy one. Far from being a "decline" it is one of the strongest indicators of human flourishing. You just don't like it when women can say no.

[–]SeemedGoodRed Pill Man 12 points13 points14 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHYA man with a fetish for dominating patriarchal men 🥵 -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No, a society being rich and a society being feminist are causally linked. You can't be rich without being feminist.

Pre-feminist societies inefficiently determined what jobs people could have based on their genitals. That meant those societies put a low performing men in important roles because they had a penis, and those same societies wasted potentially high performing women because they lacked a penis.

It was an irrational, stupid system. It was a system that creates poverty. Only societies that cast off patriarchy as an organizing rule can become or stay rich.

There are zero downsides to feminism from society's perspective. But there are disadvantages to feminism for low performing men who, prior to feminism, would have gotten a leg up because they have a dick. A lot of those men are resentful towards feminism because (1) women can tell them no and (2) women can be their boss. But I'm not willing to go back to poverty because you can't cope in a meritocracy - sorry.

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[–]I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHYA man with a fetish for dominating patriarchal men 🥵 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then it would be better to call it Equality

Why? Who is being confused? I will tell you - lazy, entitled men, who aren't good at reading.

Intellectual traditions by their nature involve a lot a confusing terms. Why does the single term "liberal" refer to AOC in the 21st century and Adam Smith in the 17th century even though they disagree? Because that's the shit you were supposed to stay awake for in school!

"Feminism" is called feminism because women were the ones originally being oppressed because they were women. In counteracting that oppression, they created an anti-oppression framework that benefits all of us including you (a man) and me (a man). Yay! They were just trying to get rid of your oppression, but they got yours too

But now you, a lazy fuck who came late to the party but didn't do the reading is like "why can't we just name it "equality" so it's easier for me to understand?" Fuck you is why. This is a lazy student's scheme to put their name on somebody else's homework.

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Societies that are doing really well can afford nonsense like feminism while societies that are struggling can't.

You have it completely backwards. In order to become a wealthy society you have to become a meritocracy - you can't pick who is in charge based on irrational inquiries like "does this person have a penis" or "what is this person's skin color" or "does this person come from the right caste."

The point of feminism is that your genitals should not matter to what you can do in life. Looking at someone's genitals and then deciding "OK, this person will do activities X, Y, Z with their life based on those genitals" is the kind of thing that makes your society poor. That's a major reason that traditional societies are poor - they have idiot grade social organization.

Meritocracies have an enormous advantage in that they source talent and ability from their entire population which means they have larger addressable talent pools than non-meritocracies. It also means you have fewer people in important positions who are there because of irrelevant characteristics like "penis having."

So feminist societies and the rich societies form a circle on a venn diagram because feminism is essential to becoming rich. You're just salty because (1) now women can tell you no (i.e. you think their genitals should compel certain behavior towards you) and (2) meritocracy forces you to look in a mirror and see your actual worth, rather than some silly lie that you should get status because of your penis.

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The word "incel" definitely has a negative connotation in modern English, but I think from two very different directions.

On the one hand, people can have a negative view about people who can't get laid. I think this is actually much weaker than self-identified incels assume. Not getting laid when you want to is something almost every man goes through at least temporarily. It feels like a bigger deal when you're inside that space than it seems from the outside. One trick I like to use when thinking about these things is to reverse it - how harshly do I judge women who can't get laid? My reaction to that is "that's a solvable problem" not "you're a bad / low value person," and I think the same about men.
Independently of that, there is a negative connotation that comes from being associated with a particular group of men or particular internet spaces. Those men and spaces have a reputation for a lot of negativity and toxicity (the Contrapoints link above covers this really well). When people hear someone is an incel, they think Elliot Rodger and incel terminology like "roastie" which is a way worse association than just being a person who doesn't get laid.

[–]RandHommanPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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i think its disingenuous to compare "incel" to "feminist/feminism" as though co-opting each is the same.

first of all, "feminism" meaning man-hating isnt a change that occurred within feminism.

yes, there are branches of feminism and people within feminism, that have been/are hostile to males.

that is not how most feminists approach or understand feminism, however.

with "incel," though, regardless of what it started as, it has morphed into misogyny. it's gone from describing a circumstance, to assigning blame for said circumstance, on women.

before someone jumps in with... 'feminism does the same thing but to men!'

"incel" used pejoratively accurately defines, at the very least, the most vocal self-described 'incels.'

most "feminists" don't hate "men," but often aren't cool with "incels" and misogynists. if you don't understand how a human being can be a man and not be a misogynistic incel, you should probably start looking for a therapist.

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They're probably not angry at the original based Feminism from the 1960s but the Evolved 2005 to 2025+ New Age version which is closer to Feminazis Misandry Gynocracy that are Affecting the average dudes which are most of them and their dating options and what types of girls that exist now that they meet when trying to date and more.

These dudes are angry because their bottom lines have been heavily affected by the new version, not that they really hate the original feminism to begin with from what I have read from their comments. It seems that the attention from girls whether pretty , average or below average ones are mostly aggregated towards the top 1 to 10 percent of Attractive dudes now and that fact since around 2015+ is affecting these average dudes (50 to 70 percent of them) in a negative way in terms of dating prospects and marriage too

That's probably why these guys are soo angry at 'Feminism'

[–]kartu3No Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 5 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Salty-Map-942Magenta Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe all that will be lost on them lmao

They go on about how people bandy terms like 'socialism' around, without knowing what it means. Which is true, but it's also hilarious that they think just because college students can serve up a lot of word salad on the THEORIES of socialism/communism, that they know better.

Yeah, the same types that ignore the lived experiences of those who were in living memory of living in Communist nations (ironic that they always tell us to 'sit down, and listen!' To lived experiences, but ofc they won't mention that when it's lived experiences they don't agree with) and honestly think a 100% socialist economy/Communism will work if they just try it for the 100th time cause 'MaRx SaId So!" And will provide a bunch of apologia with no value outside of pure theory... Literally like how religious fundamentalists act

Similarly, feminist apologists will bang on about 'BuT tHe DiCtIoNaRy DeFiNiTiOn!' And cite the 101 different types of feminism, and that therefore we're wrong because one of those types must be this perfect elusive form of feminism we haven't looked at! Whilst ignoring the reality of the sheer amount of demonstrably shreaking misandrists shown all the time...

[–]kartu3No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHYA man with a fetish for dominating patriarchal men 🥵 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

You're providing me with a great example of how people with weak education struggle to understand things.

First, you've managed to confuse yourself about both the Grievance Studies Affair and the Sokal Affair. Neither of those was inherently about feminism, or any specific topic matter - the point of both was to illustrate the existence of academic journals without meaningful academic rigor. Similar experiments include the postmodern studies generator (a computer program that generates nonsense papers) and SCIgen (which generates nonsense computer science papers). These types of studies / pranks are good because they expose bullshit - for example, 122 papers have been retracted as a result of the SCIgen program.

Now, if your point was "there are bullshit academic journals out there," we'd be in complete agreement. But your goal is to take these studies and try to use them to say something specific about feminism. And this is where your logic gets downright stupid - the result of a poor education.

First, let's do an easy test of your logic - we'll swap in another case to the same argument and see if it works. For example, if we're supposed to use the feminism paper to infer that feminism is a bullshit field, can we infer that computer science is a bullshit field because of the SCIgen papers? Doesn't work.

Fundamentally, you've misunderstood what all of the four experiments above show. What all four examples show is that there are bullshit journals that will publish basically anything - the point is that the supposedly "peer reviewed" journals aren't really being peer reviewed at all. That's why they publish nonsense papers.

You've managed to misunderstand these so extensively that you've gotten the takeaway completely backwards (again, poor education). Instead of saying "look at this journal publishing nonsense without reading it," you've gone the complete other direction and assumed:

That the feminism / mein kamf paper was actually read and understood by the reviewers;
That the reviewers agree with nazi ideology and that's why they decided to publish it;
That this is evidence that feminists are nazis.

In other words, you've managed to completely misunderstand (to the point of getting it backwards) both the Grievance Studies Affair and the Sokal affair, which is exactly why I say that it takes a poor education to think like you do. Here's a study that actually shows something interesting, but you've managed to miss the interesting thing completely and take away a completely inaccurate conclusion.

But the weak logic doesn't end there. Even if your (stupid) assumption that the paper was published intentionally was true, it wouldn't support the broader conclusion that you're trying to draw. Feminists disagree with each other - JK Rowling is a feminist, for example, but disagrees with the vast majority of self identified feminists. First wave feminists in the 1840s held social attitudes that are completely inconsistent with most modern feminists (including sometimes overtly racist views), but they were still feminists. Being educated means understanding the differences between these groups, but you aren't and so you're vulnerable to confusing what one feminist (or group of feminists) does with "feminism" writ large. It takes a spectacularly bad education to be that bad at logic.

And so ultimately you've proven my point very well. What kind of person gets confused about what feminism means? The kind of person with an education that so weak they can't understand the Sokal affair. The kind of person who can't spot their own bad logic before other people get to point it out. You are exactly who I had in mind when I said that only people with weak educations think the way you do - and then you came and proved it yourself.

Thank you for volunteering.

[–]kartu3No Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh dear, a grievance studies humanoid mocking education of an unknown person he/she/xim/xor/xen/zim/don/ach happens to dislike... :)))

Neither of those (sokal and sokal squared) was inherently about feminism, or any specific topic matter - the point of both was to illustrate the existence of academic journals without meaningful academic rigor

No. That's not what it was about.

Watching "postmodernist" folks, Sokal, himself a liberal (real, not your feminazi kind) has asked himself, whether the said folks are really as dumb as they look.

To check that out, he has written nonsensical article, that he later has thoroughly sprinkled with the buzzwords that he knew the folks liked.

To his shock, the "most influential" PM journal has accepted that piece of garbage after "peer review" lol.

Sokal squared is a whole new level

Novel-Tip-7570 · 2026-03-16T15:41:31+00:00

more hook ups because of the sexual revolution -less cs and alimony because women are encouraged to have careers. -Techology will make most gender roles...

The question the 3 scientists asked was the following:

Is there an idea so unhinged even to this unhinged cretins?

The answer? No, not really. From Mein fucking Kampf chapters to "fat bodybuilding" and anal vibrators to "heal" homophobia. (lol)

That this is evidence that feminists are nazis.

The "feminazi" term was not coined by "grievance studies affair" folks. It was actually coined by a renegade feminist. So it was nothing new.

New was the fact that, indeed, a Mein Kampf chapter in which jews are men and national-socialism is intersectionalism is absolutely fine for "feminists".

assumption that the paper was published intentionally

Ahahaha. The sweet, sweet denial.

JK Rowling is a feminist

JK Rowling is a men hating piece of shit, that just happens to hate men more than other feminazis.

Please spare me from 'not all feminists'. It is indeed not all. There is a handful, like Cathy Young who are for equality. But it's a very rare exception.

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[–]Serahill1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You say "again" as if you made that point already even though you didn't.

I agree that people post dividing stuff on the internet a lot and it's not hard to find women bashing men or vice versa, I tend to disregard most of that from both sides as engagement bait unless it's actual representatives making those statements.

However I would very much disagree that it's a "result of the fascist administration that liberals and feminists have helped put in power by placing identity politics over actual policy". I would argue that the people who voted for said administration due to identity politics are the ones prioritizing that over actual policy.

That said, is US there is one party actively pushing for more actual equality. Being against the things I mentioned in my previous comments that you seem to agree are issues, but also the party that pushes women to be on the draft more, while conservatives seem to be the biggest objectors.

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[–]kartu32 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Trump admin banning such words from research

Trump admin banning word "women" from research or grants.

or safety equipment being tested on men but not on women?

/facepalm

That entitled frau, from Grievance Studies, who wrote that entitled book, about "puah women", is not simply a men hating piece of sexist shit, she's simply an idiot.

great examples are CPR dummies

My god, I don't want to live on this planet anymore...

safety equipment on cars, such as seat belts, airbags etc

HAVE YOU SEEN THE FIST DUMMIES? DID THEY LOOK EVEN REMOTELY AS MEN TO YOU? Sigh.

women being over 70% more likely to be injured in a frontal crash.

Women being more likely to be hurt in a crash incident IS A FACT. Together with female bodies being simply more vulnerable to physical damage, starting with lower muscle mass and ending with smaller and less dens bone structure.

As for dummies, that have never really resembled a man and the older ones are closer to modern women than men, there is a wide range of them, including children like.

[–]Serahill1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kartu31 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Based on your comment you are too afraid to challenge your hilariously misinformed takes on the world, despite very thick hints being given to you.

Discovering that your worldview is largely based on lies is not easy, understandably.

But I hope you'll stop bringing up "there are no female dummies in crash tests" in the future.

There are studies which i can link

Link me blind orchestra auditions study please. Then click this link (Washington Post). Then trust me on "the study you have linked, has been cited 200 times in 2025 alone". Or verify it, who cares.

Then think, why did that happen? Could it be, that DEBUNKED study that even woke charlatans are crying to ignore is being linked because it ALIGNS WITH SOMEONE'S AGENDA?

And as a bonus content, check what this genius said about humanities in general. Oh, at that point he didn't see the woke мракобесие yet. He comments a decade before the feminazi takeover. But the point is, from an actual scientist perspective, "proofs" in humanities are laughably naive. That is why you can have "wine could be good for health" BS every second day. And why you can have contradicting studies, even without blatant cheating with stats (feminazi did that too, but it wasn't needed).

Last, but not least: "why do you call them feminazi?".

What should you call people who have published a reworded "Mein Kampf" chapter in a fucking peer reviewed journal?

(men were jews, intersectionalism was national-socialism)

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Yeah, and that changed for the better.

And now we're here.

With worse gender relations than before.

Because women's opinions of men are not a direct correlation with how men treat them. It's correlated to how women feel about men.

The less they respect and value them, the worse they think of men. Sexism was never the deciding factor.

The greatest anti-sexism campaign took place in our lifetime and the only result is that women feel more comfortable to attack men verbally and engage in more and bigoted discourse against them. And the young men who grew up in these same times have had to figure out how to navigate the contradictions of their female peers on their own.

If you're a boy/man between age of 30 and 15ish ( won't speak to anyone younger) you grew up in a pro-feminist time, you were taught to respect women and that women were equals who naturally had access to every opportunity that you did.

And the result of this parity is women talking down to you, becoming more socially and emotionally abusive, chauvinistic.

Like, dude, girls don't like guys and you can go on and on about it but it should be obvious that there's a lot of bad blood in the water. And this is the generation in which that animosity is the least earned.

It's a wild leap in logic that the generation of men who have had the least contact with women in either positive or negative ways, gets the most hate from them. It's a bad look and it delegitimizes "feminism" as many have grown to understand it.

Men already embraced feminism, they got kicked in the mouth for it. So they're recalibrating.

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[–]Bloodhoven_aka_LonerPurple Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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More feminism - more men hating policies, more male oppression, more suicides, more female entitlement.

UK has monetary incentives to accuse men of rape. (yes, some idiots with vagina thought it was a great idea)

They got into SERIAL false rape accusers. The recent one had scored 10.

There is a monumental gender incarceration gap. For the same crime, women much more likely to avoid prison and get shorter sentences. BUT THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. UK feminazis are now working on not sending women to prison at all.

Spanish feminazi just achieved female only 5 days of a month for periods.

There is absolutely no cap to it, no point where it would stop. The shit gets more while, the victimhood points more sophisticated. 85% of murdered are men, but it is the remaining 15% that matter. A third of the cross-gender DV murders is against men, but they are invisible in UK parliament where only female names are read. And it goes on and on.

So no, thank you, fuck that shit.

[–]Large_Bed_4251No Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 5 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago* (72 children) | Copy Link

They hate the sexual revolution because sex is seen as a big club that the incels aren't invited to, so they'd rather try to deny other men sex than try to get sex for themselves.

It should be obvious from this sub the contempt they hold for sexually successful men / "bad boys" / "assholes" / "Chad" / "abusers" and all the other things they use to describe normal guys who women find fun and who can get laid.

And they fetishize virgins because they have a deep and abiding fear that any woman who's ever been with someone fun and reasonably attractive would recognize what a bad deal they're getting with these guys in 2 seconds.

Some of their "beliefs" are downright Islam-pilled.

That said, "feminism" and sexual liberation of women are two very different things, and there isn't 1:1 overlap. A lot of guys support sexual liberation of women but refuse to support things that "feminism" has soft-supported in recent years, like socialism, "equity", DEI, the transgender agenda (which is distinctively anti-woman at its core), and others.

[–]bluestjuicePeople are wrong on the internet! 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's the same thing with "men's rights activists."

I'm also fully against genital mutilation, think 50/50 custody should be the default in a divorce/split unless there is abuse, addiction, or some other safety hazard, and think it's great that alimony is barely awarded. Remarrying should end all alimony. And I'm against overworking culture, favor strong paternity leave benefits and childcare benefits for fathers, too. I think fathers who are lied to and who end up being legally fathers to children who are not biologically theirs should have legal recourse against the mothers who perpetrate the fraud, and that paternity tests should be required to order child support unless a presumed father waives the right.

But miss me with all that "paper abortion" nonsense, or the guys who argue that registering for selective service, which is basically just a 'military aged male headcount' at this point since the draft hasn't existed in over 50 years, is somehow a hill worth dying on.

[–]Helpful_Standard8514 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]KayRay1994trans woman 3 points4 points5 points 5 months ago (63 children) | Copy Link

[–]sablesalsaPurple Pill Woman, mid 20s 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not, don't let some dude tell you it is. As a woman who has actually known trans people (I'm very confident that most who form their opinions on trans people have never known a trans person) I feel like the "transvestigators" and people who call cis women trans for not looking like what they think a woman should look like (Imane Khelif) are more anti-woman than anything.

Insecure teens having identity crises is not the fault of trans people. I hate to say it, but sometimes you get the wrong idea as a teen and fuck up your life. That can happen with drugs, crime, debt, unsafe sex (that can also render you infertile btw), and bad career choices. Unless you want kids to bubble-wrapped society where they can't grow, you have to accept that they'll be exposed to different points of view.

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 5 months ago (61 children) | Copy Link

Biological men taking athletic opportunities, roster spots, and scholarships away from women - many of which have only existed for a generation or two. Forcing women to open single-sex spaces, often to people who still have the original equipment, and often during puberty when many teenagers are extremely self-conscious about their bodies to begin with.

Telling young tomboys that they might actually be boys and confusing them into mutilating their bodies, potentially robbing them of their future fertility, and subjecting them to massively increased cancer risks...with increasing science coming out showing that most gender dysphoria goes away naturally, and that most forms of affirming care actually cause a lot of harm...and are being given by ideologues who are not vetting people psychologically prior to offering medical interventions which is part and parcel of why certain diagnoses such as autism tend to be extremely overrepresented, particularly among teenagers.

Lots of ways.

[–]jorts-enthusiastEvil Blue Pill Woman 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

Cis woman here to interject.

Anti trans rhetoric has harmed me and other women who look like me far more than trans women ever have. I look and dress masculine. I have big shoulders, short hair, and am taller than the average woman. My voice is naturally a bit deep. I’ve had women tell me they are uncomfortable with me, a cis woman, being in a women’s restroom, because I don’t look feminine enough. I’ve had people share photos of me and “transvestigate” me because I don’t look cis enough for them. I’ve had men on dating apps call me terrible things and threaten my safety because they assumed I was a trans woman. Young girls in red states have already been forced to expose their genitals to adults in order to prove their sex for some god forsaken reason. A woman recently lost her job for using the women’s restroom at her job because some hysterical transphobe felt the need to ruin her life over her being “too tall to be a cis woman.”

When I was a young tomboy and was figuring out how I wanted to present, I was consistently encouraged to grow my hair out long and wear feminine clothes that made me feel uncomfortable. I was never encouraged to transition. I tried out a more masculine name for a while, realized that wasn’t for me, and went back to my name.

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

And somewhere, there is someone just like you, who tried out a masculine name, was encouraged to keep going, and made an irreversible life decision - possibly before they were old enough to truly understand what that meant - who now regrets that decision and in addition to all the crap you've been through, has to take a lifetime of medicines and hormones to stay alive, and would long to get back a body similar to the body that you have now.

Feminism used to be about equality and breaking free from gender norms, which would have helped you. Sixty years ago, nobody assumed a woman would be a man. So the "trans agenda" has absolutely harmed people like you. Because where old school feminism would've said there's more than one way to be a woman, but you're very much a woman, trans ideology suggests "trying out a more masculine name" and poisons the ideas of the general public that every broad shouldered woman might "actually be a man" because such procedures actually exist and are practiced medically.

[–]autistic_cool_kidSelf-made Chad 39yo man | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Many people who detransitioned are now on daily regimens of drugs and hormones they can never ever stop. They can't get their old bodies back. Their fertility is wrecked. They live with a much higher incidence of cancer risk.

Many kids who took puberty blockers that were 'a safe pause button' now deal with side effects from it. Kids who started HRT and stopped deal with features that, as they matured and accepted their body, now stand in stark contrast with who they used to be and cause them to live with lifelong dysphoria...when they've accepted being born female, and now have a deeper masculine voice than they did before starting HRT, or unwanted body hair, for example. And that says nothing of those who deal with the permanent loss of their reproductive function.

The lawsuits are coming, the truth always comes out. And someday when this era of experimental medicine on children is looked back on with the same horror as Nazi experiments in eugenics, my conscience will be clean in that I never supported it.

[–]autistic_cool_kidSelf-made Chad 39yo man | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not "life saving" when the science shows that most people who have gender dysphoria eventually accept their biological sex without intervention, and when the suicide rate of trans people remains extremely high after transition, and when comorbidities such as autism are overrepresented within the trans population, suggesting an overlooked psychological component.

In fact, there's no evidence that it reduces harm overall except for stated preference surveys where many of the participants were "lost to follow up" without any further scrutiny, and assumed to have been persisted despite clear gaps in the research like the simple fact that those who detransition often won't go to the same doctors as the ones who facilitate their transition, which made obtaining the necessary follow up data much more difficult than with someone who persists in their transition.

Europe is far from a conservative bastion and even they recognize that the science on this is being amended, corrected, and evolving. It's why England closed Tavistock, and why Sweden, once at the forefront of this, has largely stopped it among minors.

[–]autistic_cool_kid3 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's not "life saving" when the science shows that most people who have gender dysphoria eventually accept their biological sex without intervention

Happy to review your "science"

when the suicide rate of trans people remains extremely high after transition

Yeah no shit, it's hard being trans. But why do you think literally every trans person you'll ask will tell you "transitioning saved my life" ?

The whole thing is that transition helps, but it's often not enough

Btw the decrease in suicide rates is much higher when transition started in teen years https://www.umass.edu/news/article/gender-affirming-care-can-save-lives-transgender-youth

and when comorbidities such as autism are overrepresented within the trans population

Yeah I am autistic that's how I know so many trans people, I mostly hang around autistic people.

[–]jorts-enthusiastEvil Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I agree that kids should not have any irreversible surgeries, but I disagree that trans ideology is responsible for my experiences.

Trans ideology is why someone would even suggest trying out a "more masculine name" to someone like you in the first place. Children are impressionable. You see a lot of the posters here. If they thought pretending to be a woman would get them laid by women, half of them would probably try it, and all it would take is a few social media influencers posting periodically about the "efficacy" of such a strategy and they'd likely keep going no matter how much it didn't work.

A lot of people have a very poor sense of identity. You tried the more masculine name, rejected it because it wasn't you, and moved on. That requires an identity to recognize that. A lot of people keep going, even when something isn't working. They don't have an identity. A lot of people are simply followers. Especially when they're young. There's a reason we say kids are impressionable, and there's a reason we shouldn't be introducing stuff like this to literal kindergarteners...but yet here we are discussing all these things anyway.

[–]jorts-enthusiastEvil Blue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LaFrescaTrumpetaSelf Esteem Pill Woman (blue) 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

thank you, people completely miss the piece about gender dysphoria and how transitioning is the treatment. gender dysphoria is like severe, debilitating cognitive dissonance that wrecks QoL and risks worsening mental health sometimes to the point of suicide, the most successful treatment that we know of to alleviate that life-impairing dissonance is transitioning. most of the time that’s just social transitioning without any medical intervention at all, but even that’s being attacked when schools are banning students from using their preferred name and pronouns which is insanely cruel

also feel ya on transphobia impacting gender non conforming cis women, i used to get weird looks in the women’s room sometimes but the only times i’ve been confronted and accused of being in the wrong bathroom were in the last 5-10 years by people thinking im trans. still waiting for that trans bathroom rape epidemic republicans promised us a decade ago lol fkn joke

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sablesalsaPurple Pill Woman, mid 20s 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree. They can try social transition for a few weeks, and if it doesn't work, there are easy off ramps.

Medicalizing dysphoria with a quick path to unproven drugs that have other uses sterilizing sex offenders and removing reproductive organs and functions, or permanently altering them, is the equivalent of society handing a 16 year old with a learner's permit the keys to the car after a kegger. Especially when it's done with the implicit blessing of the authorities who are supposed to safeguard against it.

The difference is that adults in kids' lives are telling them about the importance of safe sex, not drinking to excess, that having a criminal record impacts them forever, and that debt will hamper their financial prospects for years.

The adults in their lives are not telling them "go make a FanDuel account, buy lots of Hawk Tuah Coin, get drunk all the time, and here we'll even buy you the booze and a car so you can try it out." Kids know when they do these things that they are going against the general instructions of society. Kids suffering from dysphoria who are medicalized were being given no such brakes or safety valves, and fortunately that's starting to change. Yet some here (clearly) would rather to continue to rush headlong into medical interventions from an early age, including often without the parents' knowledge or consent, or through threatening the parents with the loss of custody if they don't blindly go along with it. That's sick.

[–]I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHYA man with a fetish for dominating patriarchal men 🥵 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

Biological men taking athletic opportunities, roster spots, and scholarships away from women

Let's be real here. We're talking about a tiny number of women in sports like women's wrestling, which none of the anti-trans people would ever pay attention to except insofar as it provides a vehicle to go after trans people. It's like seeing someone suddenly give a huge shit about HOA regulations on flags when a gay couple moves in down the street and puts up a rainbow flag.

It's not about women - it's about using women as cover for a bigotry that would otherwise turn people off.

How can we tell that's what's going on here? Because when issues are real life social problems we can quantify them and talk about the problem, and that quantification lets us know about the extent of the problem. So if this was something more than a cover for bigotry, you'd be able to answer questions like:

How many biological women would have a scholarship but a trans woman ended up with it instead?
How many roster spots have different occupants than we would otherwise have?

I had the AI fact check me on this and it came back with the following interesting quantification:

How many NCAA athletic scholarships have gone to trans women? As of the most recent available data: zero. Not a single out trans woman had ever received an NCAA athletic scholarship as of 2020, according to swimmer and trans athlete advocate Schuyler Bailar. This was further confirmed by Howard Brown Health's policy analysis. The NCAA president — a Republican — stated that out of more than 510,000 varsity athletes, fewer than 10 are transgender. Not all of those are on scholarships, and not all are trans women.

In fact, researching this issue I can find only a single human being who has ever (1) received an athletic scholarship and (2) was a trans woman. But that's not what you promised - you promised that women were being victimized with the implication that joining your anti-trans efforts would protect them. And it turns out that was just a lie you're repeating because you don't like trans people.

Forcing women to open single-sex spaces, often to people who still have the original equipment, and often during puberty when many teenagers are extremely self-conscious about their bodies to begin with.

You realize that forcing trans people into a different bathroom results in the exact problem you're complaining about. A trans man with a beard would be forced into the women's bathroom under your proposal.

Again, this isn't about an actual issue - if it was you'd have an intelligent solution - but rather a cover for bigotry.

Telling young tomboys that they might actually be boys and confusing them into mutilating their bodies, potentially robbing them of their future fertility,

Are you a trans person? Probably not, right? And I bet you're not a doctor either. So you neither have (1) the lived experience to know this issue nor (2) any sort of education or training on the matter.

So when a kid is struggling with their gender identity, why would they turn to the opinion of /u/TopShelfSnipes for guidance? You don't have any training or experience, and you're loaded down with bigotry, so why should you be involved in the decision making process?

[–]LaFrescaTrumpetaSelf Esteem Pill Woman (blue) 4 points5 points6 points 5 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

yeah the “protect women’s sports” crowd would feel a lot more genuine if those weren’t the same people who turn around and shit on wbb players for not being able to dunk and who scoff at the “watch women’s sports” campaign lol ffs our president literally cracked a joke about having to invite our gold-winning women’s hockey team to the WH alongside the men, the misogyny is clear as day coming straight from the top. this has never been about respect for female athletes it’s absolutely about using them for a culture war that wasn’t gaining ground with trans bathroom laws and had to blatantly switch gears.

i’m fine with acknowledging that a person who has undergone male puberty should have certain limitations before they can compete with cis women but it’s doubly ironic that the face of the movement is a swimmer who tied for 5th in a race with a trans woman and who would still be 5th if that trans swimmer had been banned. it would also help if that was the extent of the criticism not “their transition shouldn’t be respected at all” via fkn passport laws and pronoun policies. it’s just hatred. zero coherence to be found in what’s ultimately a manufactured culture war

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a clear strawman.

My opinions are my own. Even though I follow men's and women's sports, the only sport I've ever held season tickets to is a woman's sport. I've been a proponent of women playing sports for as long as I can remember. I view sports as something that's good for everyone because it instills teamwork, hard work, and teaches overcoming adversity.

There are biological reasons why men vs. women isn't fair in many sports. That's no knock on the women who are athletes and deserve professional teams, and to earn reasonable salaries, and the product is entertaining and worthy of enough fan interest to pay elite women's athletes high salaries instead of median US salaries.

But that in no way means that men and women should be competing against each other in any "fair" competition at the highest levels. Recreational sports have always been co-ed. For really elite women who want to challenge themselves, they can choose to play with men, and many do. But in a women's sports league, those who have benefitted from male physiological development simply do not belong.

[–]bluestjuicePeople are wrong on the internet! 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]duncan-the-wonderdogBi agender butch on that Kryptonite -1 points0 points1 point 5 months ago (24 children) | Copy Link

Spoken like someone who knows nothing about the actual workings of gender affirming medical care.

most gender dysphoria goes away naturally

And medical treatment exists for the cases where it does not. Why does someone getting treatment for a physical disability upset you?

mutilating their bodies

Do you think plastic surgery or surgery in general should be outlawed? Should people born with cleft lips or burn victims not receive treatment because they're "mutilating" their bodies? Should a circumcised man not receive treatment to restore his foreskin because he's "mutilating his body"?

transgender athletes

Of which there are almost none. We could simply only allow for trans athletes who have been undergoing gender affirming care since childhood and not "new trans" since their hormone levels will be very different. Actual tryouts and tests could be performed to see how well they may actually compete. Also, rules to allow intersex athletes to compete are also needed. What happened to Imane Khalief at the Olympics was disgusting.

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago* (23 children) | Copy Link

You are talking about LITERAL CHILDREN.

Children can't get Brazilian butt lifts. Hell, a child dying of cancer for whom every form of radiation or chemotherapy has failed cannot legally consent to participate in a clinical trial for an experimental cancer drug that might be their last shot without parental consent.

Yet parents have been lied to and stripped of parental rights as doctors and the medical profession foolishly went whole hog into trans procedures on children while LYING about it.

Four years ago, y'all swore that medical procedures were not being done on children. Now, we have receipts. We know that 16 year olds were having healthy breast tissue lopped off, and we know that the side effects of "puberty blockers" and cross sex hormones aren't "incidental and harmless" as we were led to believe. We know that kids were being rushed to medical procedures without adequate psychological counseling or screening. We know that parents were being given the "dead son or alive daughter" (or vice versa) ultimatum, or cut out of the decision making process altogether, or even threatened with loss of custody if they didn't go along with this barbarism.

The lawsuits are starting to flow. "Progressive" countries like England and Sweden have closed gender care centers for children and severely curtailed use of these interventions.

The world is healing, and people like you are shrieking like dying parasites being ripped off the host.

Leave the kids alone.

[–]KayRay1994trans woman 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994trans woman 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]KayRay19942 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]KayRay19941 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

“I didn’t actually write this” isn’t condemnation. Say “I condemn violence against trans people” and then maybe I’ll believe you - you still use dehumanizing language and continue to villainize trans people

And is it “blind affirmation”? Or is it simply letting the 12 year old socially experiment and try out being the gender they might feel they are? Again, the vast majority of early treatments of gender dysphoria involve letting the kid dress how they want, go by the name and pronouns they want and socially treating them by the gender they want to be seen as. I don’t see what’s wrong with that

And I mean… though this thread you had three gender non conforming people, one of which (me) an openly transgender woman telling you how a lot of this is handled, and the general aggregate of what trans people believe, and no, the word ‘socialist’ doesn’t make it any more scary.

And just a few messages ago you were referring to trans people as the parasites, why did you pivot to socialists?

[–]TopShelfSnipes1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ah, right, the classic "silence is violence" crap.

"Bend the knee to Marxist BLM and raise your fist in solidarity, or else I declare you to be a racist who condones slavery."

Sorry, I'm not participating in your struggle session.

And re: your last sentence, I'm not pivoting. You lack reading comprehension. "Parasites" refer to the people who advocate for gender ideology in primary schools, and who advocate for puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, surgeries, and other medical interventions on children...the ones who are screeching because such practices have been largely stopped in Europe, and are being rooted out in the US. There are plenty of non-trans people who are doing all that, and I hold them in contempt.

You chose to read that the target of that disdain was "trans people" and not people pushing the agenda. There are plenty of trans people who just go about their lives and aren't trying to push a political or ideological agenda...and they aren't the problem here.

[–]KayRay19941 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didn’t say “bend the knee to (insert villainous force the right is afraid of” - I simply asked you to condemn violence towards a group. You’ve literally gotten more defensive and doubled down, done everything except saying “yes, violence is wrong” - you’re not even giving me that.

And ah… gotchya, so it isn’t trans people you don’t mind being violent towards, it’s your political opponents and not the right kind of trans people.

And how many people are actually screeching because the vast majority of gender affirming care and the majority of trans people would agree that social transition and to an extent puberty blockers (which yes, are reversible) are the only acceptable interventions that are to be given to a minor. However we can’t have a good faith debate about this topic while you (and many people who parrot your views) actively undermine the existence of trans people conceptually, actively make blanket accusations about giving hormones and surgery to minors and actively treating anti trans rhetoric growing (by the same right wing populists who support an increase in racism and misogyny) as a win. You can’t have a good faith debate or a productive talk about policy and limits (because there is one to be had), when the impression you give people is “I don’t mind if you get hurt”

[–]TopShelfSnipes1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You can’t have a good faith debate or a productive talk about policy and limits (because there is one to be had), when the impression you give people is “I don’t mind if you get hurt”

Tell that to political leftists (read: not liberals) who have been saying that for years about energy prices, outsourcing jobs, loosening penalties on criminals and decriminalizing so-called "nonviolent" acts that often have victims, the kids who were medically transitioned under 18 who came to regret it, car drivers, victims of illegal aliens, children, minorities, women, victims of sex offenders, and more.

Doctors take an oath to do no harm. I'm not going to sit here and pay lip service to things that should be easily understood as a given to justify lashing out at extreme leftist political positions which are deeply unpopular. I'm not "right wing." As a matter of fact, until Bernie Sanders and the DSA scum showed up on the political scene, I was pretty consistently on the left of most issues, and my positions really haven't changed all that much. And the bottom line is there are a lot more people like me fed up with bending the knee to avowed Marxists and useful idiots, who strongly dislike Trump, and have no interest in recreating Christendom...than there are leftists, despite what a wildly out of touch platform like Reddit would have you believe.

Nobody in their right mind is going to sit there and engage in a "dialogue" with far right neo-nazis, who want to blame Jews for everything and advocate for white supremacy...and there's no reason to. But the people screaming "fascism" lately at everyone who disagrees with them and trying to silence them ARE the ACTUAL fascists, and it's been pretty apparent for a long time now. They're the ones conducting ideological purity tests and struggle sessions, advocating the use of violence to achieve political aims, and working through multiple institutions to force an unpopular agenda - all while the evils of socialism and communism can't even be taught as part of world history as they intentionally divide society to create more classes sympathetic to their cause, trying to blame "capitalism" for everything. We've only had their playbook for 100 years, but of course people who've never been educated about how the ideology works are going to go along with it. And it's going to sound great when they're "for the little people" not realizing they advocate to erode the very freedoms that allow them to have their misguided opinions in the first place, even as the billionaires and Chinese communists financing all of this chaos in bed with their Islamist allies, laugh all the way to the bank as they work tirelessly to undermine Western culture and values to fulfill their stated aims to take us down from within (and China's goal to supplant the US as the pre-eminent world power). Seriously, you think "queers for Palestine" that pay lip service to groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, and who ignore the regime in Iran that's threatening women's soccer players' families if they don't return home, while these same people, financed by these same groups, celebrated a bunch of privileged ass Western women who knelt during the US anthem as "heroes"...is anything other than a bunch of hypocritical "cows for the expansion of the burger industry, but who oppose McDonald's?"

And you actually think you're going to have freedoms on the other side of all this, if that side wins? History says otherwise.

[–]KayRay19941 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipes1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That doesn't really address any of what I'm saying.

There are lots of bad left wing parents, too. They neglect their kids to play video games, do drugs, and LARP as social justice warriors, and there are all sorts of possible negative outcomes for their kids, and them.

Leftism remains unpopular politically, and for good cause. And on this issue, polling is clear: most people support women's sports being for biological women only, most people oppose medical interventions for children, want parents involved in their child's upbringing and don't want schools or doctors transitioning them without parental involvement and consent. Most people don't want drag queens reading ideologically directed children's books to kids in school (or to at least give parents the right to opt out), they oppose race essentialism and segregating kids into affinity groups as part of "diversity" lessons, and they oppose encroachment of religion into the state regardless of whether it comes from the right wing or the left.

Some ideological fantasy where only conservatives have children, and their kids all rise up and hate them is nothing but a left-wing pipe dream that hasn't materialized, and won't. But we all know leftists have kids at much lower rates than conservatives, so I guess they have to replenish their political ranks by turning schools into a leftist propoganda factory, because otherwise their ideology would remain firmly on the fringes. And if the Democratic party could find its spine again, they'd kick the DSA Marxists out of their parties back to the socialist parties that will never be popular, the right would kick the Fuentes incels back to the neo-nazi parties, and the adults could actually discuss susbstantive policy without leftists ideologues trying to drum up support for Marxist revolution and a high-tax state that they can then manipulate to serve their own power-crazed purposes.

[–]KayRay19941 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]duncan-the-wonderdogBi agender butch on that Kryptonite 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CurrentWater8948 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]duncan-the-wonderdogBi agender butch on that Kryptonite 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

16 year olds

That's a legal adult in some US states. And funny how you had to reach for BBLs and not the cleft lip or burn victim examples I used. Again, do you think that those examples qualify as mutilation or not?

Also, your previous post did not specify only children, we are talking about trans athletes, almost all of whom are legal adults. And the fact that you all have to reach for these bizarre fringe incidents as an excuse to get rid of all gender affirming care treatments as opposed to simply ensuring that proper protocols are being used--as they usually are--like they should be for any medical practice is nonsensical.

The reality is that NO MEDICAL TREATMENT IS 100% SAFE IF ONLY BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF HUMAN ERROR.

THERE IS NO GREAT PLAGUE OF CHILDREN RECEIVING GENDER AFFIRMING SURGERIES, AND YOU BELIEVING THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

CHILDREN NEED HORMONAL TREATMENT FOR THINGS OTHER THAN GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, SHOULD WE ALSO BAN THAT OR ACTUALLY DO THE WORK OF PUTTING GOOD PROTOCALS IN PLACE? There's also the social mode of gender affirming treatment as well, and that can work fine for many children--just trying on a name change or different pronouns or different haircuts, just regular and harmless things children do for for various reasons to learn more about themselves.

But guess what? We've got people, people on your side, trying to make laws to ban that as well. And yet, we're the ones who need to leave children alone?

You're basically thinking like an anti-vaxxer at this point.

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We don't have good protocols in place.

The medical community has been outspoken about this. Ideologues have been running the show, and now the party's over because the science isn't there.

People researching this manipulated the data to suit their ends, and covered up unfavorable data. Large scale longer term studies coming out with more academic rigor are revealing that the necessity of such interventions on teens and tweens was always overblown and not supported by science.

You denied for years that children were receiving these surgeries, then it was "oh, that only happens in other countries...not the US" and now it's known that it's been happening in the US to the tune of thousands of kids, not just 1 or 2 outliers.

The goalposts have been constantly moved to try and justify this, and now popular opinion is rightly turning on it.

[–]duncan-the-wonderdogBi agender butch on that Kryptonite -2 points-1 points0 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994trans woman -2 points-1 points0 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, so -

Let’s start with the basic science of HRT, because this is at the core of it. Functionally, outside of primary sex organs, HRT does make a trans person similar to the their biological counterpart in nearly every way. Muscle strength, muscle building ability, bone density and so on all run parallel at one point. The only difference really is limb length, which… are you gonna draw the line of ‘biological advantage’ at tall or naturally wider women? Now, I do believe that for a trans woman to qualify for the same things a cis woman does her hormone levels, secondary sex characteristics and bodily changes should align more with cis women (which do happen at a certain point of HRT), and in fact the topic itself is debated on by trans women. Surprise surprise, even a subject like trans women in sports is debated on by trans people themselves. The saw goes for women’s spaces - I think a better question isn’t necessarily if one passes, but rather, is one a woman functionally in their daily life? That’s the line I would draw and again, the topic is heavily debated between trans woman. The voices in blanket support for immediate integrated are often amplified by right wing pundits because it justifies an anti trans rhetoric.

And funny thing about trans people and gender dysphoria… many studies have also shown that a trans person is more likely to go back to the closet, repress further and so in when they aren’t supported. Trans people who face active support from peers and family rarely detransition, and in fact many detransitioners have re-transitioned later in life. Thing is, diagnosing gender dysphoria is hard - and I do have sympathy for many trans kids as the only way to diagnose gender dysphoria (which is more likely than not a neurological/endocrine mismatch) is through subjective interpolation (ie. via the words of the patient) - however, there are also many debates on what gender affirming care is for minors. Most would view it as letting the person socially transition while using puberty blockers (whose effects are reversible) and then beginning medical transition when they become an adult. Some would push for medical transition early and I personally don’t subscribe to that - but again, there is tons of nuance. Again, we can’t have a good faith discussion about this cause a large part of this discussion is attempting to both slow right wing hate content as well as intentionally inflammatory content from the occasional trans person looking for attention (looking at you Lillytino)

To cap it off, there is no such thing as a “trans agenda”, this is - again - right wing fear mongering familiar to anti-gay rhetoric in the 70s and 80s

[–]Nice-Medicine-6790Purple Pill Man (65% red - 25% blue - 10% black) 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

They hate the sexual revolution because sex is seen as a big club that the incels aren't invited to, so they'd rather try to deny other men sex than try to get sex for themselves.

Yea that's the case for most here it seems. Most redpilled people are way more blackpilled than they wish to believe. Personally I'm fairly critical of the sexual revolution but it doesn't stem from some "I cannot get laid" perspective a lot of these guys have or generate some seething hatred about women.

I can understand their perspective if they've tried everything and still come up empty handed and scapegoated, but, a huge majority have the correct observations while still being slobs with no major goals or energy for life, they don't make the clear necessary changes (I don't mean the stupid "just shower bro" redditor perspective, more a stance of self respect, ego/confidence and getting out of self hatred / any negative feedback loops while actually improving their looks like skin, body weight and frame + learning how to counter their autism which seems prevalent in red/blackpilled spaces.)

Life is largely unfair, very few guys are born attractive or having a sexual magnetism about them. They're going to have to sacrifice comfortably at times to get what they want but on the other end they gain confidence and a leverage of sorts in their romantic and sexual lives, higher than women currently have over them. They forget both the top and bottom of dating hierarchy's are men.

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Nice-Medicine-6790Purple Pill Man (65% red - 25% blue - 10% black) 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Passiveness / fear to act on intentions kills sexual energy, being direct and intentionally flirty is the only fix. They place too much energy into how the world perceives them instead of developing a good level of ego to not care.

stiff, "logical" bozo's

Seen too many guys like this. Either very passive or on worker mode, women do this way too much as well now also, always in HR / pop psychologist mode. From my experiences, women like men who can make them feel extremes (very toxic players know it's better to have her pissed off at you for a day than not feel anything at all), treating her like she's 16 / a little sister at times and carefree. Everything logical / theory / debate focused should be saved for relationships or in needed situations but a lot of these guys initiate that atmosphere from interaction #1.

[–]Usual-Ad-49860 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asb3s7 5 months ago [recovered] (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]jorts-enthusiastEvil Blue Pill Woman 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]asb3s7Red Pill Man. bad faith arguer ☺ -2 points-1 points0 points 5 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I’m not insulting your intelligence. I’m saying many women, including you, think getting offended means the offender hates women. Hence when redpill says you’re hypergamous, you interpret that as they hate women.

It’s simply a difference in subjective and objective thinking. Women statistically lean towards subjective, men lean towards objective; Men use logic, women use feelings. Your determiner of misogyny is likely if you ‘feel’ hated, not if it fits an objective definition of gender based hatred, on account of you likely having a female thinking style. But logically, just cause women feel offended doesn’t mean redpill hates women. Even if your female brain thinks so. And as such that’s not the reason why red pills aren’t feminist.

Blaming everything on misogyny or hatred of women proves that you operate on a feelings based thinking style btw.

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[–]asb3s7Red Pill Man. bad faith arguer ☺ -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Nope. And you thinking it’s hatred of women quite literally proves my point.

It’s already proven men think more objectively in comparison to women (I don’t feel like providing proof right now since I’m on mobile but if you can’t look it up yourself I’ll do so on request). And women lean towards subjective thinking. That sentence that ‘women are worse at logical thinking’ is offensive, but it’s still true. Subjective thinking (from a woman) would consider it misogyny. Objective/logical thinking would consider it true because there is evidence that proves it.

Words have objective definitions, not subjective definitions. If you say something ‘is’ misogyny, you’re assigning it an attribute under logic to see if it fits the definition of misogyny. So that means the objective thinking style takes priority. Therefore it requires logical thinking (as I said), which women lean away from. Therefore it’s harder for a woman to understand that.

Does this all seem too complicated for you? Now you see why i said it’s difficult for women 😊. Saying ‘he hates women’ is so much simpler for a female mind to process than that entire paragraph of scary logic!

[–]jorts-enthusiastEvil Blue Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]asb3s7Red Pill Man. bad faith arguer ☺ -2 points-1 points0 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]jorts-enthusiastEvil Blue Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]bluestjuicePeople are wrong on the internet! 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah, no.

That sentence that ‘women are worse at logical thinking’ is offensive, but it’s still true.

This could be simply a factual, objective statement. The additional layers of interpretation you add are where the offensiveness arrives.

Therefore it’s harder for a woman to understand that.

Maybe, sure: how much harder, though? Since you have objective quantitative data to refer to this should be determinable.

Does this all seem too complicated for you? Now you see why i said it’s difficult for women 😊. Saying ‘he hates women’ is so much simpler for a female mind to process than that entire paragraph of scary logic!

You went from "women are [some degree though I didn't share how much] worse at logical thinking" to 'women's little minds can't process scary logic!' The infantilizing word choices and the illogical conclusions (something being some amount harder is not the same as it being difficult) are what makes your statements offensive.

[–]I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHY0 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It’s already proven men think more objectively in comparison to women

Regardless of how different groups stack up against each other, YOU are not that good at thinking rationally or objectively - you're showing us all that with your writing.

So even if we assume, arguendo, that the male bell curve is shifted to the right of the female bell curve, that doesn't fix the problem of you being dumb. Instead, we'd have a situation where you're trying to get credit by leeching of the coat-tails of the other men. Sort of like the way it's always the dumbest, least accomplished white people who are into white supremacy. If you were independently smart on your own, you wouldn't be clinging (through bad logic) to the derivative intelligence you are trying to inherit from the other men.

Words have objective definitions, not subjective definitions.

You need to take a linguistics class because this is not remotely correct. For example, the word "awesome" around 1600 had a meaning closer to "terror" or "dread." Today, it means "great" or "impressive." But it's not like there were sequential conventions where the word was assigned on meaning and then another - it's just patterns of speech that drifted.

When someone goes to write a definition of awesome, they're giving a description of how other users in the community use the word. Use comes first, then people write definitions to try to capture the usage. Language doesn't start with definitions and proceed to usage.

The rest of what you go on to say is poorly reasoned, but we don't need to excavate all the bad reasoning since you're starting from an obviously false premise.

Does this all seem too complicated for you? Now you see why i said it’s difficult for women 😊

Lol. Too bad I'm a man. And using my big, logical man brain I have perceived that you are not very smart (for either gender - you would make a stupid woman if you had a sex change).

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Red Pill men should support feminism

Comments

A feminist (at this point, feminazi) peer reviewed journal has accepted "Mein Kampf" chapter in which jews were replaced with men and national-socialism with intersectionalism.

Sokal squared is a whole new level

Is there an idea so unhinged even to this unhinged cretins?

What should you call people who have published a reworded "Mein Kampf" chapter in a fucking peer reviewed journal?

It was NOT WORKING that was a privilege, Kindergartens were invented 200 years ago.

Title	Red Pill men should support feminism
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	0
Comments	310
Date	March 16, 2026 3:41 PM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1rvcyjv/red_pill_men_should_support_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/red-pill-men-should-support-feminism.1575646 https://theredarchive.com/post/1575646