Victim mentality to avoid responsibility 101

Jazzlike_Function788 · 2024-07-12T22:04:00+00:00

I think there was just another thread where the common stance was that it was obvious how much physical attractiveness matters. Then we have posts like this that convince me, it's definitely not obvious to everyone.

It's really simple, if nobody wants to fuck you, your personality isn't the problem, it's your physical appearance. If you were attractive someone would fuck you, no not everyone, maybe not who you'd like, but someone would.

MysterySolverDog · 2024-07-12T23:53:37+00:00

Believing that somebody is not being honest about what their dating standards actually are, and putting in work on your personality are not two mutually exclusive things. Men didn't just fall out of the sky a few days ago, we've been able to see the men who women are lining up to date. While it isn't 100% about looks, looks are a bigger factor than the vast majority of women are willing to admit, and a lot of the remaining factors are also genetically determined.

I'm a man who is mildly autistic and has remoulded his personality multiple times in order to be more likeable. As a consequence of this effort I'm better at resolving disagreements peacefully and seeing the other person's point of view than many neurotypical people are. But here's the consequence: being neurodivergent and working on being highly agreeable just leads to men getting held at arm's length rather than completely socially ostracized. It has increasingly become apparent to me that women would rather pull their own teeth out than date a man who is even slightly on the spectrum, and a lot of ND men have reached a similar conclusion.

krackedy · 2024-07-12T21:53:01+00:00

This is something that transcends gender.

Guy with a toxic personality and no hobbies outside video games: "women don't like me because I'm not 6 feet tall. Shallow bitches."

Woman with an abrasive personality who complains 24/7: "men are intimidated by me because I have a career"

People soften the blow to themselves by insisting it's either beyond their control or actually because of some positive attribute.

bluestjuice · 2024-07-12T22:23:44+00:00

Fundamentally, there is always some tension between the personal locus of control and societal fights against injustice. We see this in any area where systemic oppression exists.

Realistically, in the face of systemic oppression, group action to change unjust systems is needed. At the same time, systemic change is slow and unsteady, difficult, frustrating, and does not immediately resolve the suffering of the oppressed. Personal action is also needed to allow the individual to thrive as well as possible within any unjust system, both for personal well-being and to enable them to persist in having energy and will to lend to the cause of group action in the long term.

I tend to avoid the term ‘victim mentality’ because I think it just offends people and doesn’t serve a productive purpose, but generally what people mean by this is someone who focuses on the oppressive system and has lost the ability to act within their personal scope towards their health and happiness. Effectively this person feels powerless enough to cede the field entirely, even over those smaller areas where they can actually effect a great deal of influence.

In the case of men who struggle with dating, though I don’t think they actually experience the sort of systematic oppression that would warrant collective action, they nevertheless do feel screwed over. They lay the blame for that at various feet (biology, feminism, women en masse), mostly either wrongly or futilely (railing at biology is like railing at Fate), but the psychology of learned helplessness is probably pretty similar.

EulenWatcher · 2024-07-12T22:00:09+00:00

People control very few things in their lives; hence, they should maximize what they can. There's little point in denying that, yes, women on average like taller men or that a lot of women pay attention to their partners' financial levels. It does not mean that you're fucked beyond any repair if you're shorter than average or you make little money. Accepting certain traits that aren't that desireable by the other gender is a part of the road. You can't change your height, but you can work on your social skills. You can't get younger, but you can work through your mental health problems etc.

It isn't gendered either. We can see certain women doing the same, when they claim that "there are no good men" or that "men want only one thing". There's no end goal besides not taking responsibility for your own life. It's just a poor coping mechanism.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-07-12T22:28:42+00:00

Women will say all that:

Whenever women tell men that the reason they are not interested in them is their personality, lack of emotional intelligence, or similar things that can be worked on.

But then go chase some dickhead who has nothing but looks to be ditched at first signs of pregnancy, while some impressionable mid looking guy who actually listened to women advice spends his best years putting endless effort into shit that doesn't matter.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-07-12T22:07:35+00:00

The snag here is that guys with shitty personalities and zero emotional intelligence do date, enter into relationships, get married, start families and so on; the undeniable truth is that being a total douchebag asshat is not a barrier to dating - and in some instances it’s actually and advantage - hence the natural reaction to the trite “work on yourself” cliche is cynicism.

Turbulent-Tonight975 · 2024-07-13T06:53:58+00:00

Most of these reasons they cite are them not admitting the truth that the guy in question is not what she is looking for, be it about looks/height or finances. Her assigning some negative to the guy as why she wasn't interested in is about her saving face and not having to admit that she won't date anyone under 6 feet tall, or she wants someone who is financial able to provide her with a certain lifestyle. She doesn't come across as what she really is.

I think men would take these listed reasons from OP more seriously if there was any consistency from how women treat different men, meaning how the standards for the top guys they want are far lower than for everyone else. Everyone on here who has any social life can tell you examples of how women who supposedly have 'standards' who will discard them for a dude she is really keen on. I've seen that more times than I can count where she treated and demanded such and such from an unremarkable boyfriend, but a highly desirable guy she was dating got hit with almost none of these. I have slept with a few female friends whose public stance and actions were that she wouldn't sleep with a guy who she hadn't dated for a bit. I guess standards are conditional...

Different guys get different rules from these women, and that is why we don't take their reasons seriously. The hottest guy she ever dated can have low emotional intelligence and a bad personality where it won't matter because he makes her feel a certain way. Thats the point.

wideHippedWeightLift · 2024-07-13T01:10:56+00:00

I think the main issue is that you're backing yourself into a corner by allowing the conversation to go "we're not superficial, looks don't matter at all." Clearly they matter to some degree - hence why there's lots of attractive but douchey guys like Andrew Tate drowning in pussy, while everyone knows plenty of ugly but kind guys who are single. Admitting this, especially when it comes to the parts of someone's appearance that can be changed, does not make women superficial.

Nobody can force a relationship with someone they're not attracted to. And no one wants a partner who is reluctant to have sex. Women who express this out loud should not be seen as "superficial", because everyone already knows it's the case, and only the extremely bitter lonely men would judge them for wanting someone who takes care of his body.

thedarkracer · 2024-07-13T05:04:45+00:00

Instead of actually putting in some effort and taking responsibility for themselves, they simply just say that women are lying about what's actually bothering us, a

Bcz you do lol. We acknowledge that we are attracted to looks and body curves. You press the personality factor and still the most misogynist men get the most sex. That doesn't track at all. All that matters is looks. Two rules of dating for men

Be attractive
Don't be unattractive.

Personality only matters if you want an LTR but to land a date only depends on looks. How can the personality factor work when many men just get eww...no, how did you imagine you were on my level and that kinda rejections to the face? Basically it's near impossible to get the foot through the door which is heavily based on looks.

nightcall379 · 2024-07-13T06:30:35+00:00

Whenever women tell men that the reason they are not interested in them is their personality, lack of emotional intelligence, or similar things that can be worked on.

Instead of actually putting in some effort and taking responsibility for themselves, they simply just say that women are lying about what's actually bothering us, and then project their insecurities about their physical appearance onto us, saying it's the actual reason we're not interested.

Do you have any actual proof of it being caused by the personality, or not?

Or is this just about stating your personal opinions?

Also, if it really is caused by the personality, how do you explain the fact that by far the vast majority of women complain about having toxic exes?

caption291 · 2024-07-12T22:45:14+00:00

Whenever men tell women things that imply women are shallow, superficial and unreasonable, or simnilar things that can be worked on.

Instead of actually putting in some effort and taking responsibility for themselvess, they simply just say that men are lying about what's actually bothering them, and then project their insecurities about their personalities onto men, saying it's the actual reason they are failing. Therefore making men sound like they have bad personalities and lack emotional intelligence, which then allows them to play victim and never actually put in any effort to work on their issues.

What's the end goal?

username_6916 · 2024-07-12T22:20:11+00:00

Is personality really something that can be 'worked on' when there's a pretty serious genetic component to it?

berichorbeburied · 2024-07-12T23:02:05+00:00

No women are objectively lying.

A woman says work on your personality.

It may mean you are just not attractive enough.

A woman says you are a good person.

It may mean you are boring and too safe.

A woman asks why you don’t have a girlfriend.

It may mean she thinks you are a fuck boy or it may mean she thinks you are a homosexual

A woman says money doesn’t matter.

It means that you do have to have money but you can’t use your money to secure a relationship or sex with her.

Like women use so much double speak and false language.

Women are objectively lying.

Even when women say idk.

It does not literally mean they don’t know.

Most times they do know.

Idk if this will make sense

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-07-12T23:48:03+00:00

Women do lie thou about the shallow things they are attracted to. How many women would admit to wanting a tall, handsome, muscular rich guy who's a bit of an asshole? Even this post serves as a deflection, conflating failing with women with some sort of moral failure (to women, incompetent = immoral). The "end goal" is men want recognition for their struggles, but since only bad men fail with women, they're not allowed to "play victim" while every other demographic does so on a constant basis.

Large_Wishbone4652 · 2024-07-12T22:20:38+00:00

Cause you are full of crap.

If a random guy comes to you don't know his personality nor emotional intelligence.

KGmagic52 · 2024-07-12T22:08:33+00:00

But women don't pick men based on personality or "emotional intelligence" , so why should we listen to you?

-Gravebloom- · 2024-07-13T01:04:39+00:00

Lol women thinking they deserve men to put in endless effort when all they have to do is show up.

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BadMuch2033 · 2024-07-12T22:54:16+00:00

Multiple things can be true at once.

There can be people who can't change their behavior because of covertly narcissistic traits.

But there can also be people who are straight up dishonest about their preferences and priorities in an attempt to make political gains for their ingroup by projecting virtue.

Unfortunately, the storm created by these two groups is spilling over and increasingly creating opportunity for extremist strongmen to rise to power with a promise that they'll fix it.

If respect and honesty fall to the wayside in terms of priorities, because they're less useful for material gain, what do you think will happen?

John_Oakman · 2024-07-12T23:06:08+00:00

Since modern social doctrine presuppose that genuine moral virtues are wholly independent of worldly/material results and playing the victim is the standard method* of raising awareness and lobbying for payouts, there is no external incentives for anyone to take personal responsibility (leaving only internal sources of motivation, which many lack).

If anything, taking personal responsibility heightens the chance of an individual/group becoming more vulnerable to exploitation from others. Again in a perfect world that's irrelevant because of the nature of genuine moral virtues but reality tends to be far from perfect.

*also known as Nonviolent resistance and/or civil disobedience.

Acrobatic_Ad_8952 · 2024-07-13T02:11:22+00:00

Personally I already do try my best in life. It wouldn’t be right to say I’m “avoiding responsibility” when I’m already doing everything I can. Posts like this make me feel confused because what else can I do when I’m already trying my best. I’m not trying to deny that I struggle with things like emotional intelligence, I’m just denying that I’m not putting in effort.

TallFoundation7635 · 2024-07-13T18:38:35+00:00

Getting leaner, improving his skin, making more money and knowing how to talk to women will get him way more women than improving their "personality", whatever the hell that is supposed to be.

This is an easily provable fact in this increasingly online generation.

Glarus30 · 2024-07-13T19:48:19+00:00

Lol, women telling men that they have "victim mentality"? Lol I can't believe I lived to see it!!!

DECADES of feminism, girl power, bullshit about the "patriarchy", more women in STEM, equal pay crap, me too, believe all women, DEI, pay us more, give us more, hire us more, more more...

Guys, I think that's enough. The pendulum has reached it's peak and it's time to start accelerating it back to our end. u/n_o_inspiration, history will hold you responsible for the fall of feminism and the return to reality. This little post here will be as significant as the bullet that killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand XD

philseven12 · 2024-07-12T22:19:26+00:00

The end goal is exposing that most women dgaf about a real relationship or connection if the dude don't look like a marvel comic book character

Spiritual_Hamster945 · 2024-07-13T01:53:10+00:00

Because would a women reject brad pitt because of his lack of "emotional intelligence"

/ thread.

Cunning_Linguists_ · 2024-07-12T22:12:17+00:00

Personality doesn't matter that much obviously if Wade Wilson can kill women and still get women simping for him. Personality doesn't matter that much when the most success I've personally had was when I play hot and cold with women, and treat them like shit. I think men just wish yall would cut the gaslighting.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-07-12T22:00:28+00:00

Most men would be better off understanding that if a woman is agreeing to meet up with you, she’s rooting for you to win.

I’ve been blown out only a few times during dates, but taking it personally is about the dumbest decision you can make unless you put way too much value in a woman you likely wouldn’t have liked anyways believed.

The end goal is to shield their ego investment. They also likely don’t have enough daring experience in the first place.

Swimming_Policy3629 · 2024-07-12T22:54:14+00:00

Yea. You gotta hang out with incels, and I mean the smartest and most insane ones, like right on that fucked up forum of theirs to really understand this method, how it works, how well it works, and it's psychological impact. The best way to understand why men do this though, is to imagine doing it as a woman. In almost all circumstances the only way a woman philosophically socially "loses" to a man is if she is ugly in appearance. Because looks are what's valued about women. So, imagine it, if you can't win an argument with a man so you just say "you just don't like me because I'm ugly", you've won. Because that's the worst thing a woman can be that causes her to lose all her worth no matter how smart or rich she is. And tada, you've gotten that person away from you and out of your way forever as you search for someone who's capable of understanding deeper aspects of self & others. Because the only options he has in response to that is either "no, you're not ugly, here let me reward you with sex" or agree and leave

Green-Quantity1032 · 2024-07-13T00:46:38+00:00

Hmm..

I mean men here do needlessly whine about women's so-called standards.

BUT - I do think a lot of women downplay by a lot how much looks matter - not just when deciding IF to date someone, but even in how they react to a person, given his/her looks - which pretty much means you automatically appear more confident/funny/social if you look better.

I don't see a reason to whine about it, men do the same whether they see it or not - responsibility is still on the person left wanting - if they think it's looks holding them back, better hit the gym and/or the plastic surgeon's office.

This looks effect is maximized and can be experienced/viewed to it's full potential on dating apps like Tinder - in both the match-rate and the types of chats possible given different looks.

AcephalicDude · 2024-07-12T21:56:37+00:00

Wait...when did it become their responsibility to become interested in a given man?

tendrils87 · 2024-07-12T22:55:54+00:00

Victim mentality is a common thread because many men are too feminized nowadays.

DarayRaven · 2024-07-12T21:44:18+00:00

The same old men are lazy bums while virtually uplifting women

MongoBobalossus · 2024-07-12T21:37:41+00:00

I think this is partly true. I’m sure there’s some genuine uggos out there who think they’re “average” and shoot their shot above their weight class.

GymBroTRT · 2024-07-13T12:16:32+00:00

So I have a lot of interest in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The psychologist who popularized it and developed it, Dr. David Burns, observed that while the majority of his patients ended up recovering from their anxiety or depression issues, many of his patients showed a ton of resistance to change. Despite the fact that they were really suffering.

This is known as therapeutic resistance. And it actually results from having mixed feelings about changing or doing the work that is needed to change.

Let’s take something like losing weight for example. Many overweight people are unhappy with how they look and deep down they know their weight is causing them physical issues as well. So why don’t they just eat less or eat more healthy?

Well, someone who is in shape will assume the fat person is just lazy, stupid, doesn’t really want to change, is actually happy being fat, etc. But that’s not really it. The problem is not that the fat person is lazy or stupid. The problem is that they don’t see food as the problem. They see it as the solution!

That’s right! Rich, fattening, comfort food is a nice treat to them. It makes them momentarily feel good, although in the long term it makes them fat and disgusting. Food is not something you out on your body to fuel you, it is seen as a reward, it is often seen as the only pleasureful activity they have in their lives. So asking them to give it up, is asking them to give up the one thing that they believe is actually making them happy.

So the only way to actually help someone change and lose fat is to change their relationship to food and exercise. They have to change how they think about food and what it means to them. Then there is the very practical issue of actually implementing this in real life and there is some resistance there as well. I mean would you rather be up at 6am to go for a jog or stay in your warm bed and drink hot chocolate?

So to go back to your original topic, the reason men often resist changing their behavior is because they subconsciously believe their current behavior is actually a reflection of how nice and good they are. Let’s take a simple use case, such as overcommunicating. It’s one of my favorite topics!

Many men who meet women on apps, to use as an example, tend to spend several days to weeks constantly chatting the women up. They send paragraphs and paragraphs, back and forth, tell each other their life stories. And this always ends up with the woman eventually ghosting the man. Then the man goes on Reddit, makes a post and wails “young women are so flaky, I did everything I was supposed to do and we had such a connection, why oh why did she ghost me!!!”

Then an army of men (and women) start commenting how today’s women are total flakes, how she probably has five chads in her DMs and the OP was just not interesting enough, how he behaved exactly how a man should behave, and blah blah blah. The result - the man feels validated and vindicated, he’s placed all the blame on the apps, on modern women or the economy and how can go to sleep…alone!

But I’ve advised many such men that actually they caused their own problems. For example, by overcommunicating so early on with a woman he doesn’t know, he is actually showing her that he doesn’t date much, he is too attached, he is too needy, he is not a challenge or a catch. But this advice is almost always show down. When you dig deeper, you start to find out that men believe being a good communicator means they are a good guy. And that taking interest in the woman he matched with is a sign that he is a sensitive, high quality man, different from all these other insensitive jerks that women complain about (and fuck) all the time. He then feel offended that you’d suggest a change in behavior and communication patterns, because that would mean he is betraying his most dearest values and morals. He feels that a man who doesn’t communicate excessively or much at all, man who is not that available and is a challenge, is actually just a toxic asshole who plays games with women.

So, here, we have a man who is immensely suffering. He is lonely, he isn’t getting dates and the ones he is getting end up ghosting him or using him for free meals. He is unhappy. Yet, he has mixed feelings about changing ANYTHING, because in his mind his current way of doing things is actually advantageous. He feels his current behaviors are a reflection of his values and higher morals. He feels morally superior to the fuckboy who doesn’t spend all this time communicating with women, although that guy ends up getting the girls, while he sits home alone watching his walls peel. He also feels intoxicated by the anger and resentment he has towards modern women and the apps and the state of the economy and…..

So until men can fully surface to their conscious mind the benefits and advantages they think they are getting from overly pursuing or acting needy and insecure, they don’t stand a chance of changing. Even then, they have to do a lot of work to change their erroneous thinking and adjust their behaviors to get actual results.

Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-07-13T16:14:28+00:00

Just change everything about yourself to validate what ever retarded desires surface in the minds of children pretending to be adults.

lmao

Fact is the traits women value and the traits that make someone potentially a good LTR are not consistent with each other, you gotta choose only one babe.

SaBahRub · 2024-07-12T21:46:09+00:00

You just said the end goal in your OP, lol

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2024-07-13T00:15:36+00:00

Men love to play the victim and claim they’re invisible because the only women they want are 10/10 Stacy’s. They cry about how they have no standards and then proceed to call women on their level “land whales” and have open contempt for women they match with on tinder, claiming they’re “beneath him” and “below average.”

It’s not that women don’t go for personality and emotional intelligence - it’s the type of women the men here want are all above average and they’re pissed they can’t be liked by the super hot chick just as they are. Like gets with like. Super hot people date other super hot people and they act like it’s some great oppression to be ignored by beautiful women. Because beautiful women want to be with kind and lovely, handsome men. Instead of realizing that people date within their own leagues - they cry that women beneath him are all he can get - not realizing he is much lower than he thinks he is. A kind 4 is going to do much better with other 4s than a shitty one. And a 4 who realizes what a 4 actually is will do better than both of them.

Sure - Chad can get tons of insecure and emotionally unintelligent women by being an ass hole. But why are they always comparing themselves to Chad? You aren’t Chad. You’ll never be Chad. Chad also has other great qualities. Just because you think he’s an ass doesn’t mean he is. I’ve been with Chad. They’re actually very sweet and kind, even if an ass to everyone else. And sure red flags pop up and it doesn’t work out. But he wasn’t just awful to her from the start. He wasn’t just “hey bitch laying on your back is all your good for so get down.” Like, that’s not a thing outside of movies. Chad is a very specific archetype that most men are not. Stop comparing yourself to him. Most men aren’t Chad and most women don’t even want Chad. It’s a total projection. You want Stacy - and that’s all you care about. So you claim that’s what women want. Just the hottest of men. When in reality women do have nuance and date tons of dudes - but because you only feel like you’ve “made it” when you’ve gotten with Stacy, and anything beneath her is “settling” - you claim that’s what women are doing. And it’s just not true. It’s projection the whole way down.

Looks so matter - everyone has a threshold. But that’s all it is. Cross the threshold and the rest is all personality. And the threshold is much lower than men here think. And it definitely isn’t Chad or “out of her league.” Women actually tend to underestimate when someone is attracted to her - while men way overestimate. Women know their league. We date men around our own level. And half of them are still trash. Because they believe they settle for us. They can do better. They got us - so who says they can’t do better? It’s why there are so many commitmentphobes. Because what if? Maybe she hit his threshold but what if someone hotter wants him? Even some ugly ass dudes I’ve dated (low self esteem) have thought they could do better. They didn’t.

The men here just want the threshold to be him and the personality threshold to be “as little as humanly possible.” They want to do whatever they want, Not take care of themselves at all, Not improve or be better, have no job, no hobbies, no social activities, No car, no aspirations, no work ethic, no romance, no humor, no emotional intelligence, no hobbies in common - and still fuck the hot chick. They’re mad they were told they could get anyone with a “good personality.” (Meanwhile they don’t even have that.) The rest of us grew up and realized you get with people who are mutually attracted to you. That’s typically someone you’re compatible with who is on your level.

The men here who struggle, do so for very specific reasons. Give me 30 minutes on FaceTime and I can pinpoint it. You overestimate yourself, you want more than you have to offer, and you don’t have anything outside of a small friend group made up entirely of men and your only hobby is video games and anger. I have never in my life met an ugly dude with a good personality, attainable standards, and a good life ever struggle with women. Ever. And I’ve met some ugly dudes.

Downtown_Cat_1173 · 2024-07-12T23:57:33+00:00

I think that men are conditioned to believe that they are entitled to whatever woman they choose, and women are conditioned to believe that they need to accept who chooses them and make the effort to be appealing in order to be chosen. Most women don’t act entitled to men’s attention. Women are told “he’s just not that into you.”

Title	Victim mentality to avoid responsibility 101
Author	n_o_inspiration
Upvotes	13
Comments	207
Date	July 12, 2024 9:24 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1e1t09t/victim_mentality_to_avoid_responsibility_101/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/victim-mentality-to-avoid-responsibility-101.1524067 https://theredarchive.com/post/1524067

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