What's wrong with being cautious in a world where you're on your own?

Selkie-Princess · 2022-04-04T22:49:34+00:00

Whenever I speak to men who take the stance of being annoyed or upset about women’s caution, or see men speaking that way, I see it as just one of the biggest and most difficult to resolve misunderstandings between genders.

It is genuinely a DIFFICULT practice in abstract thought for men to comprehend the mental toll of the constant threats women face (and the never knowing if a threat is “oh I’ll be groped” “I’m going to be raped” or “I’m dying today” when they -as men- do not live under that constant shadow of a threat, in the same way it’s very difficult for women to fathom just how socially isolated and deeply lonely/emotionally unfulfilled men are when we -as women- simply do not have to grapple with that.

shockedpikachu123 · 2022-04-04T23:23:47+00:00

Men are upset that they’re all grouped together as the bad guy and blamed for the actions of a few men. Instead of calling out other men for bad behavior, women are being called out for being too paranoid and overreacting.

HentaiQueen0w0 · 2022-04-05T02:26:14+00:00

I love guys. I have always had guy friends for as long as I’ve lived.

I’ve had guy friends who had crushes on me. One guy friend who for some reason stabbed a guy for me—I had moved right before it happened thank god. I’ve had guy friends who were gay, guy friends who I would wingman for, and guy friends who have hurt me bad.

My father taught me to look out for other men because he knew they posed more of a danger to me as a woman. He signed me up for martial arts, taught me ways to take down people larger than me—he’s massive himself—and taught me how to recognize behaviors that were alarming.

I have always used this knowledge, especially when I got to the age where I was no longer being chaperoned when I left my house. I have habits I engage in when there’s mostly men around me.

I’ve had men as friends I would gladly sleep over with because I know they wouldn’t do anything to me. And I’ve had men I deliberately cannot be around alone with or I’d either blow up on them or be in a constant state of fear.

I’ve known good men and bad men. I don’t always know the distinction. The friend I cared about and helped tried to get me to cheat on my boyfriend with him while I was in a “drunken stupor”. Luckily nothing happened because the gravity of the situation sobered me up but had I been in a worse state I might have ended up hugely traumatized—the idea of cheating has caused me to wake up from intense nightmares so if that doesn’t put into perspective how much it nauseates me then I don’t know what will.

I’m someone who does tend to say “Men do X” and “Men tend to be X”. I know it’s not all men, I know men are trying their best and it’s hard when the few bad ones seem to take the spotlight and make it something that extends to everyone.

It sucks. I’m sorry men have to go through that, but as a woman, as someone who in most situations couldn’t fight off a man or who could find herself in a scary situation with one, I don’t want to take my chances.

I’ll be polite, I’ll be courteous and kind. I won’t mistreat someone for their gender. But I won’t be ridiculed for my caution or demeaned for not putting all of my trust in the men who come into my life.

EthicallyIlliterate · 2022-04-05T00:06:10+00:00

Im a guy, whoever said that was probably a guy. Their a fucking idiot, theres nothing wrong with being cautious. Probably way too many girls I know have been assaulted and it makes me fucking sick.

Im an aggressive, conservative, driven dude. But I have no tolerance for that bullshit, it is completely unacceptable. The frat kids at my school absolutely disgusted me with the way they treated women

That being said, im talking about SEXUAL ASSAULT. NOT A GUY BEING FORWARD. There is a CLEAR difference.

Orange_Paisley · 2022-04-04T22:26:05+00:00

Nothing is wrong. The same men who are calling you paranoid will blame you for being sexually assaulted. Please do not take their advice on this.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-04-04T23:36:10+00:00

A lot of men here dislike anything they view as hurting their chances with a woman. Also anything that disassembles the old image of the revered patriarch, the provider and protector, because without it they're just some guy.

ssnabberz · 2022-04-05T00:54:13+00:00

I mean just as an example I saw TODAY on twitter unfolded of how even men who proclaim they would never hurt someone did, this one scares me a lot personally as this guy was someone the girls said they trusted and saw as a really nice, good guy. He is on bail rn after being arrested. Never let your guard down for anyone

his tweets before assaulting his roommates

the roommates tweets shortly after

poppy_blu · 2022-04-04T22:48:39+00:00

It’s sick but there’s an attitude that permeates the manopshere that sees curtailing sexual exploitation and violence committed by men against women as something that will “hurt” men who are already struggling to get women.

Which says:

they don’t understand that sex and sexual violence are two different things
they think their being inconvenienced or not getting what they want trumps whatever women are experiencing
they think when it comes to sex men deserve a pass (because again, their sex drive is a greater need than anything women can ever feel and it’s womne who should have to police mens sexuality)
they legit are sexual predators

Or all of the above.

Remember it Roosh that said rape should be legal because how else are incels supposed to get laid

Lakeyute · 2022-04-05T12:41:00+00:00

The men wanting you to lay your guard down are going to be the first ones to take advantage of you.

The men wanting you to be forgiving will be the ones who require it the most.

The men wanting submissiveness will take advantage of that to act out on their dominance insecurities.

Cupcakelover1985 · 2022-04-05T00:26:49+00:00

There’s certain types of men that have a problem with it.

1)Men whose horniness trumps their empathy 2) sexual predators

The common denominator between those two groups is that they dislike the fact that womens caution results in less opportunity for them.

Honest-Profile-5271 · 2022-04-04T21:34:11+00:00

The men here genuinely believe themselves to be Swell and Good and would never commit a felony- heavens to Betsy! So they get irritated that women do not trust them, personally, whereas she trusts other men that she knows better. They simply want to be the guy she trusts right off the bat, which is presumptuous.

cuckedalt · 2022-04-04T21:41:52+00:00

Absolutely nothing. Some bells can't be unrung

Harambe-2036 · 2022-04-04T22:45:45+00:00

Being cautious is telling your friend where you are going, not going over a guys place first date, and googling him.

Being cautious is not doing all those things because you think all men are secretly rapists/abusers until proven otherwise.

I am careful walking around rough inner city neighborhoods because there is high crime, not because I think all black people are thugs.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-04-04T21:44:33+00:00

Just be cat-woman and be able to fight 6 fully grown 200+ lb men simultaneously while being 100 lbs and unarmed

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-04-05T00:18:19+00:00

Nothing wrong with it, I even encouraged women to be cautious and to be prepared like I do men, practice self defense, carry a firearm on you, be careful about where you go and what situation you put yourself in, etc., and I'm always met with push back from that more than anything.

But as far as cautious women I personally am just not going to waste time on anybody who's constantly walking on eggshells in every situation

ThisBoringLife · 2022-04-04T22:01:33+00:00

I think the issue is the overreaction, I think. Or at least, a perceived overreaction.

As a simple analogy, it's fair to drive under the speed limit, check your mirrors every now and then, use your turn signals, and a list of other safe driver habits to ensure you're not putting yourself and others in risky situations while driving. It's not so fair to be so scared of potentially bumping someone or something that you are unable to drive properly.

To translate into dating, it's more like being so cautious and worried about being the victim of a crime that you can't enjoy the date itself. Your partner for the date is going to notice, and it sours the mood overall.

I don't particularly think the majority of women in this sub who preach caution in their day to day are particularly paralyzed by fear, but I suppose it's best to be vocal about it, for the possible one that is.

sarkington · 2022-04-04T21:47:59+00:00

Nothing, obviously.

Unless someone wants something from you, in which case you are being selfish and unreasonable, and should do what they want

hhhhhhikkmvjjhj · 2022-04-04T21:50:46+00:00

I’m fine with women being cautious. I think we should all be, also guys. Most people who get assaulted out in the streets are men (not sure if this includes sexual harassment though).

I’m mostly against male bashing. Especially younger guys are really vulnerable. When women imprint their trauma on men by being overly fearful and derogatory you raise men who are deeply dysfunctional. It can very easily get out of hand and as long as society is pro women there are very few attempts to rein it in. This hurts boys and men. We are not granite bricks of no emotion, we are sensitive too. Our specialities, self esteems and sense of identity get damaged and our quality of life suffers.

There must be a balance in this and I think after metoo it swung over a bit too far.

2022-04-04T22:53:50+00:00

Who says it's wrong to be cautious?

LotBuilder · 2022-04-05T06:05:28+00:00

I totally understand why women are very cautious and they should be… but when they are acting worried and careful about you it’s still offensive. That’s human nature . You understand but you are put off a bit.

Think if you were about to sleep with a guy and you handed him a condom and he suddenly held it up to the light “just to make sure there were not any pin holes in it… because some women have done that.” You would be offended. You know you would never do that and it would bother you that it was even a thought in his mind.

ruboyuri · 2022-04-04T22:25:54+00:00

We should be cautious of all men except the one man who has been the goodest boy and deserves what he wants

flapperfemmefatale · 2022-04-04T23:44:28+00:00

Nothing. The men complaining are not worth your time in any capacity.

gofigure62 · 2022-04-05T02:50:13+00:00

Because predators want easy access to their prey. Women who have their guard up are harder to attack.

Those men are psychopaths. They don't care about women being harmed, they often think women deserve it. Just as they only care about men behing violated by other men when women bring up their fear of men.

They don't care about any victims, whether they're female or male.

They're only interested and invested in having sexual access to women's sex organs whether it's consensual or not. They don't care about the wellbeing or safety of other people.

The world is supposed to revolve around their feelings and their sexual needs.

TheRedPillRipper · 2022-04-04T23:20:32+00:00

it can’t be expected of us to foolishly trust

It isn’t.

The followers of TRP have certainly made it clear we’re on our own

Men are. Women aren’t. They have a multitude of support. Take safety. How many can women call/tell a friend they’re going on a date? Have an exit strategy? Even in bars/public spaces? What sort of emergency help/support is put up in women’s toilets? Provided, both privately and publicly?

Women are far from alone, in terms of safety. Nor is there an expectation they should be. They are however responsible for personal choice.

Godspeed and good luck!

OfCatandPagan · 2022-04-04T22:21:49+00:00

I have no problem with women protecting themselves, can we at least be realistic about where the threat disproportionately arises though? So much disingenuous bullshit as if every guy has the same default threat level.

It’s not “men” out to get you. It’s a very particular type of “man” that is pretty easy to spot in the wild. Let’s just be honest.

parahacker · 2022-04-05T00:51:58+00:00

Because men generally face more threats. https://bjs.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh236/files/media/document/cv20.pdf

(relevant data is table six, page nine.)

Though trendlines have been steadily getting narrower between male and female victims, and these days they're almost at parity, this was not true until around 2012 or so.

Further, the nature, types, and causes for said threats are very different from what most people think - and men being subject to sexual assault (by women, to be clear) is a case in point. It happens almost as often. There's loads of studies on that, but this post by a men's rights redditor a while ago puts it all into readable and understandable form. I recommend it if you're interested.

Further, most violence happens from people you already know, and again women contribute much more to those statistics than generally advertised.

The reason why being paranoid about your safety is a problem is the knock-on effects of that. It is often based on and contributes to a wider prejudice against men, increases the general hostility in the air and encourages exaggerations and sometimes outright lies, as some of the other commenters here are demonstrating, all in the name of 'being safe'. In a backhand sort of way it sometimes even becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Being safe around others is a worthy goal, but only when that isn't targeted towards men in general. When it is, it harms more than helps.

NockerJoe · 2022-04-04T22:55:20+00:00

I think the issue is this isn't really tenable at the macro scale. Does an individual have reasonable justification to protect themselves from potential abuse? Yes. But this has very clearly become a large portion of people treating every single man as a potential abuser while having no idea what that does to the human psyche.

I have some FtM friends who have to go through it while not expecting it and the experience of passing as male is clearly not pleasant for them here. Likewise others I read about suffer from the shift since it turns out suddenly losing all social trust both ways permanently will fuck you up in a lot of ways.

The bigger issue is that not only do a lot of cis women in these discussions want to protect themselves, they have this weird envy at the idea of people being constantly on guard around you. Its a thing they want to emulate or they're jealous because other people aren't afraid of them unless they put effort in, but they don't seem to realize that being the default reaction all the time isn't exactly fun and games because its not exactly all fun and games and comes with a lot of downsides they don't want to hear about because it gets in the way of their weird circlejerk about how men get to be "the protagonist" and women are abused background characters .

dietwindows · 2022-04-04T22:13:01+00:00

The probability of a woman getting murdered by a man, in the first world, is slightly higher than her chances of being struck by lightning.

Protect yourself, sure. But women are wired in a way that can gravely overestimate potential danger. Can't tell you how many times I've red-flagged myself in the eyes of some woman because my (actually autistic) dumbass did something marginally atypical.

ISTHATACACTUS7 · 2022-04-05T01:15:07+00:00

How can some men not understand a simple concept?

Kaisha001 · 2022-04-05T07:14:23+00:00

in a world where you're pretty much on your own in terms of personal safety in society

There has never been a safer or more coddled group than women in the western world. You are protected from nearly every major danger and even most inconveniences.

yet why is caution so controversial when we practice it

Because, if you'd bother to read the arguments instead of presenting this typical strawman nonsense, it's that the 'caution' is applied irrationally. Women claim it's about safety when you treat an unattractive guy like a predator, than turn around and drop all the standards when Chad waltzes through.

Preme2 · 2022-04-04T21:59:29+00:00

A woman will take those risks if you’re attractive enough.

TryLambda · 2022-04-04T22:14:13+00:00

The issue is that modern women have a disdain for LVM beta simps and will be cautious with them and not be intimate with them and will only take their money.

When a HVM or some ex prison thug is in the picture, said modern woman will throw caution to the wind and trust the most untrustworthiness of men, who will most likely cheat on them and abuse them and get hurt.

Then after these events, modern women will then blame the beta simps for what occurred and take absolute zero responsibility as a woman for their own actions or choices. This is the scenario that gets played over and over again.

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Matt_Door · 2022-04-04T23:19:06+00:00

Nothing at all. It will cost opportunities, though. I say this is a risk-aware (adverse?) individual, myself.

kaiden08 · 2022-04-05T05:50:23+00:00

I’ve never had a problem with women taking caution to protect themselves in public. I have much sympathy for the very real danger that women must be constantly wary of in the real world.

I sometimes disagree with the messages that seem to get put out in the name of women by political NGO’s.

I don’t feel slut walks and “teach men not to rape” campaigns are productive in reducing violence against women, and I feel they are damaging to the psych of men, women, and society at large. These type messages and attitudes only create an adversarial relationship between men and women in my opinion.

Don_Antonio_S · 2022-04-05T06:38:35+00:00

Why are you picking on TRP all the time? It has nothing to do with you yet youre so hellbent on making them responsible for everything.

abaxeron · 2022-04-05T07:56:10+00:00

What's wrong

results.

https://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/selection/2014-yao.pdf

Convicted criminal offenders had more children than individuals never convicted of a criminal offense. Criminal offenders also had more reproductive partners, were less often married, more likely to get remarried if ever married, and had more often contracted a sexually transmitted disease than non-offenders. Importantly, the increased reproductive success of criminals was explained by a fertility increase from having children with several different partners.

Previous studies have shown criminality to be linked to a promiscuous mating style, unstable marriages and lower levels of childcare and supervision (Ellis & Walsh, 2000). More specifically, in a review of the literature Ellis and Walsh found that 50 out of 51 studies investigating associations between mating behavior and criminality reported a positive relationship between criminal behavior and number of sex partners (Ellis & Walsh, 1997)... a British cohort study found that the 10% most antisocial men father 27% of the children (Jaffee, Moffitt, Caspi, & Taylor, 2003)

https://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/intercourse-and-intelligence.php

teens with IQs ranging from 75 to 90 had the lowest probability of virginity (the authors note this is also the same IQ range where propensity towards crime peaks). Depending on the specific age and gender, an adolescent with an IQ of 100 was 1.5 to 5 times more likely to have had intercourse than a teen with a score of 120 or 130. Each additional point of IQ increased the odds of virginity by 2.7% for males and 1.7% for females. But higher IQ had a similar relationship across the entire range of romantic/sexual interactions, decreasing the odds that teens had ever kissed or even held hands with a member of the opposite sex at each age... At Harvard 59% of the undergraduates are non-virgins, and at MIT, only a slight majority, 51%, have had intercourse. Further, only 65% of MIT graduate students have had sex. The student surveys at MIT and Wellesley also compared virginity by academic major. The chart for Wellesley displayed below shows that 0% of studio art majors were virgins, but 72% of biology majors were virgins, and 83% of biochem and math majors were virgins! Similarly, at MIT 20% of 'humanities' majors were virgins, but 73% of biology majors. (Apparently those most likely to read Darwin are also the least Darwinian!)

In reality, where this silly "we're just looking after ourselves and each other" nonsense can be put to a real test, it's obvious that women are not avoiding men who are dangerous; they are avoiding men who are boring. Women's wariness is not wrong in principle; it's just backwards.

"I'm so worried about getting into a car crash that every time I need to drive I take two shots of whiskey first" - What's wrong with this line of thought? - Everything.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2022-04-05T09:15:21+00:00

Violent men definitely ruin the day for everyone. The justice system is not swift enough to deal with them in a timely manner.

Also, the justice system can't predict sudden violent behavior.v

And of course, the justice system can't take people's words 100% at face value without fact checking.

So, I completely understand women being extremely cautious. Is it also paranoia? Sure, but who can blame them? Better be paranoid and alive, right?.

But then don't complain men won't approach you.

Sephiroth_-77 · 2022-04-05T09:27:59+00:00

You can be as cautious as you want. Trust can be taken advantage of.

2022-04-05T13:49:43+00:00

Nothing wrong with people being cautious. But there is plenty of wrongness in...

skew definitions to make a point with false data > Rape is defined as PiV and then cry that women are subject to 99% of all rapes committed but in reality it's even
Cast away all responsibility and ignoring all violence and assaults from women to men because "women are weaker"
saying that dating is apparantly harder for women for this reason only
ignoring emotional abuse and violence women do to men in relationships entirely

At least in germany a law firm and the nation wide institution for police data already confirmed that statistics made and published by feminists are overwhelmingly skewed, flawed and calculated in such a amateurish and manipulitve way just for the sake of pushing a narrative. And knowing that in a household a women can be abusive and hurting her spouse for years but one single hit when he snaps will make him part of the statistic not her making me ignoring all these 90% of *insert crime* is done by men. Just by the nature of reality on a macroscale a statistic going beyond a ratio of 70/30% in one direction is most likely pretty iffy anyway.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-04-05T14:12:31+00:00

Nothing wrong with it, but should one choose to live in fear, to be so cautious in the world, that you become meek and timid...

you never fully live. You are no better than a small cog in a giant machine that doesn't care or consider your happiness. I don't know about you, but the way I see it, we all will be taking the eternal dirt nap soon. Why not try to chase happiness, no matter how brief it may be?

OfCatandPagan · 2022-04-05T21:05:57+00:00

So equally women must understand men can also be weary of you, if they are financially well off. The sword cuts both ways.

PutthegundownRobby · 2022-04-06T00:35:40+00:00

Is thst controversial? I thought it was common sense. Different generation I guess.

Available-Ad-9338 · 2022-04-06T03:15:23+00:00

Nothing. Women shouldn't let their guard down just because it hurts the feelings of men. I only spend time around trusted and vetted men. I'm tired of men complaining about women being cautious and then blaming women for being raped and abused.

Sweaty-Bee8577 · 2022-04-06T05:34:13+00:00

There's nothing wrong in keeping one's guard up when around strangers.

billsull_02842 · 2022-04-06T06:49:34+00:00

i think women reinforce the behavior of men behaving badly.

I-wanna-GO-FAST · 2022-04-06T07:13:11+00:00

How do you expect anyone to answer your question when you can't tell us how you're being "cautious", what exactly men say in response to you describing this behavior, and what the context of you bringing this up is?

Maybe you're describing behavior that is completely irrational that doesn't actually protect you from anything. Maybe guys are trying to give women a taste of their own medicine by playing the discrimination card. Maybe you just made a useless circle jerking thread topic.

KickAss2021 · 2022-04-06T21:16:21+00:00

red poop

you would know, J Malls & Tire Rone do that all the time in your community, is that you why you left and went for the Taller community.

Night owls

When the researchers scanned the brains of people who were classified as either night owls or morning larks, they found that night owls had lower "brain connectivity" — a measure of how "in sync" different brain regions are with each other — compared with morning larks.

https://www.livescience.com/64779-night-owls-brain-connectivity.html

They just read the first chapter, they didn't read the whole story. We saw the beginning, middle, and we know how it goings to end. Man, their excuses and lies got real boring.

SolidTunnelSnake · 2022-04-07T13:52:08+00:00

This is what lawful men have been saying any time a woman goes into a neighborhood alone or some seedy nightclub and ends up getting assaulted. But then they get labeled as victim blamers. Glad you came to the same conclusion, victim blamer.

mextreme10 · 2022-04-05T00:06:20+00:00

I don’t think it’s the risk itself that is not understand. I think men and women psychologically perceive risk differently naturally. There is many other risks in the world and predominantly men are are targeted, men just have high risk tolerances.

Title	What's wrong with being cautious in a world where you're on your own?
Author	OfCatandPagan
Upvotes	128
Comments	386
Date	April 4, 2022 9:31 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/twdohw/whats_wrong_with_being_cautious_in_a_world_where/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-wrong-with-being-cautious-in-a-world-where.1111268 https://theredarchive.com/post/1111268

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