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[–]knowless 190 points191 points192 points 12 years ago (78 children) | Copy Link
Can someone please identify what textbook that is and what curriculum it's being introduced under?
[–][deleted] 91 points92 points93 points 12 years ago* (68 children) | Copy Link
I saw this on TiA, and this was posted as the source.
[–][deleted] 44 points45 points46 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Checks out. On page 46 through the Amazon Preview.
[–]lifeaffirming 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There is no 46 in Amazon Preview?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Search sexism in the preview. It'll pull it up.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Mouuse97 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why are they paying money for this?
[–]iNQpsMMlzAR9 22 points23 points24 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ransom money for your diploma.
[–]edtastic 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is bullshit from the bullshit social justice crowd who can't think deep enough to see past their self serving approach to a cause that supposed to put those who are worst off in the society first rather than the needs of over privileged college students looking to place themselves in the role of oppressed.
[–]Phoxxent 22 points23 points24 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
the problem is, not all of it immediately becomes apparent as bullshit. "people are inherently nice", that is immediately disproven because of assholes at work, "women are perfect angels", not as much, because echo chambers and whatnot.
[–]baskandpurr 30 points31 points32 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Part of the problem with 'women are perfect angels' is that many women believe it. After all, it's not "women behave like angels" its "women are angels". No behavior required, they just are.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
except this isn't saying women are perfect angels. It's saying that even though they may be prejudicial cunts, they don't hold institutional power and thus can't be sexist.
[–]miroku000 17 points18 points19 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The thing I don't get is why do they believe that women do not hold institutional power? Most of HR is women. Most managers in the US are women. Most teachers are women. All the laws that discriminate based on gender favor women. Women have a lot of institutional power.
[–]well_golly 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dig this, my friend ... most children are principally raised by women. Those children who grow up, and create society based largely upon how they were shaped as kids. Creating the society of misogynists.
tl;dr: Get out! The calls are coming from inside the house!
[–]Pecanpig 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Apex fallacy, until they see a female president with an all female staff and an all female congress and senate they won't accept that women have any power whatsoever.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a great question. It's based on a theoretical presupposition that is, in turn, used to interpret empirical data in order to confirm said theoretical presuppositions. The empirical data supposedly indicates that our institutions--schools, workplaces, families--undermine women in favor of men.
For instance, conversation analysis methodologies show that men hold the floor longer than women, interrupt women more often, etc. This data is used to argue that men have institutional power over women.
Other data, such as lifetime earnings, also supposedly indicates male privilege.
The other component is that feminism would argue against any kind of essentialist argument that would appeal to biological differences in order to account for differing aptitudes, decisions, and outcomes for the sexes. Essentialism is the dirtiest of dirty words in the academy because of the political consequences that would ensue. This is how post-structuralists can argue that our identities are entirely discourse-based; the body itself, as a biological entity, is also made-real through language and thus what goes on at the cellular level is itself only understood through a biased language that favors white men.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
No institutional power eh? My country has a government with 50/50 gender-distribution for the ministers and a female prime minister, so I'd tell this book to shove it.
Edit: Fixed the link.
[–]Pecanpig 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm curious about the 50/50 thing, how did that happen?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It's not affirmative action if that's what you are implying. The amount of women gradually increased naturally over the years before it stabilized at +/- 50 % during the last two decades.
[–]Pecanpig 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Common sense tells me that there must be some kind of external force to make this happen, and yes affirmative action was my first guess.
Can you think of any other reason why that would happen?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Matriarchy?
No, jokes aside, we have had female politicians for a long time, and our first female prime minister as early as 1981, which could have something to do with it.
[–]Pecanpig 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The real problem in my opinion is that a lot of them don't realize that it's bullshit.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And then they enter the real world and realize it's all bullshit.
I'm not so sure about that. Their brainwashing tactics are pretty comprehensive.
[–]Revoran 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The cover looks like a children's book. Just look at the font and the illustration.
... Who am I kidding. It is a children's book.
[–]lethalweapon100 33 points34 points35 points 12 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link
Social justice education...?
Thats really a thing...?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You have to submit your Tumblr posts as homework
[–]KilliamWallace 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link
aka sociology
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link
[–]HalfysReddit 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yea I actually enjoyed my sociology class, it was information worth learning. Not like this bullshit.
[–]Funcuz 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link
I won't lump you in with WS majors but to be honest I don't know which one is worse.
They both seem to assume that equality of opportunity must equate to equality of outcome and if it doesn't we need strong government intervention to make it that way.
Granted , I say that out of a certain amount of ignorance of what sociology is supposed to be but clearly there's some truth in what I say.
[–]harryballsagna 26 points27 points28 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
I got a BA is sociology. I wish I could go back in time and take computer science.
Eff me in the M.
[–]Space_Ninja 23 points24 points25 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I'll have a Vanilla Latte, Venti, no sugar.
[–]harryballsagna 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Kick me while I'm down, eh?
Actually, I'm an English teacher. And I'm teaching myself web design. But it all could've happened so much more easily.
[–]Space_Ninja 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I hear ya. I made a bigger mistake than you, but I'm not gonna talk about it here. Good luck with the web design thing!
[–]feelsbeforereals 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Web design is awesome. I suggest you start with css and html. How far along are you?
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]harryballsagna 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'd beg to disagree. You studied music and probably still like music. I actively seek out sociologists to argue with.
I'd say you came out ahead.
[–]ScottFree37 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Not at all. It was (at least in my Uni) about honest social research, nothing more. We learnt that there are no such thing as facts when it comes to social research, only compelling arguments. Some arguments more so than others. We had it rammed into us to avoid tainting research with your own personal bias and to follow the evidence, not your hypothesis. In fact, it's because of the skills I learnt in sociology that I'm an MRA. If you look at the arguments objectively you cannot possibly go the other way.
[–]ScottFree37 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Undergraduate. I wouldn't say I came across anything "MRA friendly" as such but most courses and lecturers would've been open to an MRA perspective had I known enough at the time to raise one. I had raised a few unpopular perspective in my time and disagreed whenever bullshit was presented and was always respected for it.
It's strange, I stayed away from the single gender based course and in my whole time there, gender politics came up only once. This is despite the fact that Jenna Price (a journalist that appears every once in a while in this sub) was one of the lecturers.
In fact, my one gender run in happened in my first year, with a woman who would become my favourite lecturer and hold me in high esteem. I realised in hindsight she was a fairly staunch feminist, but she respected me despite raising a point I know now to be a core MRA argument.
[–]FAPSLOCK 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think a lot of it is just demographics and surveys.
[–]only_does_reposts 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's a very strong overlap.
source: posted excerpt from my socio text here last semester
[–]edtastic 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Word? I thought it was the same thing... my bad.
Since you are a sociology major would you at least agree that feminists ideology dominates sociology?
Either way I'm happy your one of them. Can't change too much from the side lines.
[–]Number357 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Unfortunately, sociology is becoming increasingly politicized, and at some universities the sociology department might as well be another women's studies department.
[–]Arlieth 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have a BA in Sociology. I had one class where feminist sociology was brought up, and we were fucking dumbfounded that it cast objective methodology in a "patriarchal" light after we just got done discussing data sets and populations. Apparently Sigma stands for Shitlord.
EDIT: The chair of the Sociology department is a very cool guy. Also has an MBA and several business ventures. I imagine the leadership of your uni's sociology dept could greatly affect the curriculum.
[–]Sporkosophy 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
aka Multicultural Education, for the Education majors or those needing a joke exit course.
[–]Dangger 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not at all.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
My apologies for the accusation of karmawhoring, I just assumed it was a crosspost. Above post is edited.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Reddit where reddit is due...
[–][deleted] 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why not leave some Amazon reviews?
[–]Mouuse97 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"As an anti-racism activist and trainer" "..oppression" that one really got me.
[–]theskepticalidealist 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its really annoying when people don't post a source for these. I see these things from time to time and its this that needs to be named and shamed, or used as a reference when someone says they don't really teach this shit.
[–]k_rol 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'd really like to know as well.
[–]knowless 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The original post was from someone majoring in French, likely first year in college, said it was from an education class, that's all i could find.
[–]einexile 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I love how it's dressed up like some helpful tip in an Xyz for Dummies books. Another obvious reminder of established fact. You can't divide by zero, helium is an inert gas, misandry doesn't real.
I also love how we can safely assume it's in a college textbook and not some activism treatise where it might actually be appropriate.
[–]DroppaMaPants 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, that does it. If it's in a textbook then it must be right.
[–]DramaDramaLlama 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
And what year it was published
[–]knowless -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Looks like 2011
[–]iMADEthis2post 89 points90 points91 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Correct. There is no such thing as reverse sexism or reverse racism. it's just racism and sexism no matter where it is coming from.
[–]Megabobster 29 points30 points31 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Reverse discrimination is being accepting.
[–]golemsheppard 139 points140 points141 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
This is a disturbingly new trend from the feminists and social justice Warriors. It builds upon the notion that women are always the oppressed proletariat, powerless before the male bourgeoisie. It's the whole, "discrimination equals prejudice plus power" mantra utilized to alleviate any personal responsibility for their actions. Because women lack any institutional power in their world view, they can never discriminate. In essence, because they are in their minds the chronic victims, they can literally never be the offender in any sexist manner, because they don't have power in their minds. It's prevents them from ever having to acknowledge that they can be just as terrible of a human being making statements like, "All men are pricksand deserve to die", as a man saying "all women are stupid cunts and shouldn't be allowed to vote." Both are abhorrent statements, but feminists will have you believe that their statements really aren't that bad because they are so powerless, all they can do is hurt feelings. I was reading over some discussions by SJWs on tumblr where they were acknowledging that some young white men had committed suicide after being repeatedly told by people like them that they are "obsolete" and should "hurry up and die". They accepted no responsibility for the fact that everyone words have the potential to have serious consequences. They fell back on the core argument of "We don't have any institutional power so we can say and do whatever the fuck we want and not only is it entirely permissible, but their isn't shit you can do about it." Its not about equality, its about bullies on the Internet justifying why their belligerence isn't really belligerence, and any who disagrees with them is just too stupid to see the truth.
[–]knowless 66 points67 points68 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This isn't just bullies on the internet, these are real people who believe real things that effect how they interact in the world.
[–]Muffinmanifest 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I saw some girl post this on Facebook yesterday. About 20 likes. There are real people out there who believe this and I'll have to deal with them.
[–]TheGDBatman 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is not a new trend.
[–]feelingsupersonic 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
For anyone seeking more info: https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Social_Justice
[–]OmnipotentPenis 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That was wonderful.
[–]edtastic 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
It's the whole, "discrimination equals prejudice plus power" mantra utilized to alleviate any personal responsibility for their actions.
No that was actually meant to help real oppressed minorities rather than well to do liberal white women who desire to take on a life long role of professional victim. She is effectively sabotaging social justice for the rest of them without even knowing it by setting the victim/oppression threshold incredibly low.
The biggest problem is she doesn't have anything to lose. There is no real chance of men turning on her gender because men love women. She knows it and men know it. This is why her best weapon is telling men they hate women just like a emotionally manipulative wife who tells her husband his failure to to make more money is evidence he doesn't love her.
You talk about such a women escaping accountability as if women in their traditional role were expected to be accountable in the first place. The kept women was a virtual child. A black feminists once refereed to white women as the house cats of the world. These well kept women started feminism and they recruited the bored middle class variety to begin women's liberation. It was liberation from tedium and perceived irrelevance rather than hatred or oppression. The latter only became an issue once women went about taking on or taking over male roles which men once used as the sole measure of their self worth. Without that role men would risk irrelevance so they fought it, but not very hard.
We rarely judged women as harshly for being abusive towards men. Men would rather judge the man for his weakness than condemn her for her strength. The strong women wasn't popular because being strong didn't necessarily attract men in the same way that men being strong attracted women. There was no vast conspiracy to make women weak even if over time these norms were codified into custom. This is something we still see today and we're on our way to falling back into old patterns because women will demand that strength in men.
I was reading over some discussions by SJWs on tumblr where they were acknowledging that some young white men had committed suicide after being repeatedly told by people like them that they are "obsolete" and should "hurry up and die". They accepted no responsibility for the fact that everyone words have the potential to have serious consequences.
They are falling back on patriarchy's tolerance for male disposablity. They know men attract less sympathy so his death can be shrugged off while a women's demands our attention. These are the same people who've been telling people women are the leading victims of violence in the world while males make up 80% of homicide victims. They really are heartless when it comes to men because there is nothing they stand to gain by caring about them. Compassion for men (the little there is) has long been just another obstacle to be overcome and that's accomplished by demonizing them.
The false premise of women being relatively powerless can be challenged on it's substance. The power dynamic argument can survive this test because it doesn't apply to them. The fact is powerless people need space to challenge the powerful that we ought not grant the powerful for it would likely be used as a tool of oppression. On a society scale model that makes sense but not on a personal level. At that level power is a far more complex matter which depends on more than simplistic notions of race, gender, & sexuality. For all we know the lesbian black girl is the most popular in the school.
[–]kaliwraith 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women have power. Feminists have power.
[–]ownworldman 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
We have certain culture of victimhood, don't we. You are a better person if you are a victim.
We are not even judged by the merit, but by how oppressed demographic one belongs to.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]knowless 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's extremely bizarre to me that somehow I'm the racist/sexist/bigot because i acknowledge that a random man of indefinite race could have a more tormented experience in modern America than a woman of another indefinite race.
[–]autowikibot 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Intersectionality:
Intersectionality (or Intersectionalism) is the study of intersections between different disenfranchised groups or groups of minorities; specifically, the study of the interactions of multiple systems of oppression or discrimination. The term is particularly prevalent in black feminism, which argues that the experience of being a black female cannot simply be understood in terms of being black, and of being female, considered independently, but must include the interactions, which frequently reinforce each other. [citation needed]
Interesting: Black feminism | Gender | Feminist sexology
Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words | flag a glitch
[–]feelingsupersonic 249 points250 points251 points 12 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
That's right guys. There are no female politicians, business owners, shareholders, or administrators of any sort. Ever.
[–]theskepticalidealist 92 points93 points94 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
No no, see, they mean women as a group. Like a single entity. :/
[–][deleted] 61 points62 points63 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Dat herd mentality.
[–]BoneHead777 19 points20 points21 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Didn't you know that all women have a common hivemind?
[–]BrinkBreaker 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Except hardcore female egalitarians, humanitarians or men's rights activists.
[–]Colisu 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't know if you are being facetious, but I upvoted you in the hopes that you were =).
[–]BrinkBreaker 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For the most part, yes. However I have seen the way some of my girl friends are treated for not necessarily buying into feminism.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They're one? They are one....
[–]ModsCensorMe 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Depends on when that book was written. If it was 1950, it'd be pretty accurate.
Publication Date: November 1, 2011
Nevermind.
[–]Number357 26 points27 points28 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women definitely don't hold a 6-point voting advantage over men in the US, and women certainly don't get to write most of the rules of dating etiquette. Nope, women totally want to make the first move and pay for dates, but they can't because men have all the power when it comes to dating and use that power to oppress women by buying them dinner. And mothers would love to work 60 hours a week while their husband stays home with the kids, all of the empirical evidence saying otherwise is just the Patriarchy trying to keep women down.
[–]HellsAttack 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nobody here but us victims.
[–]Grubnar 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Also, it is always ignored that the largest empire this world had ever seen was ruled over by a woman. The largest land-based empire was also ruled by a woman ... heck, even the most powerful pirate ever to sail the seas was a woman.
The majority of people with power may have been male .. but history is full of powerful females.
[–]Grubnar -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
or in equal measure
Equal? Males and females? Well, there is a radical idea! (sarcasm)
[–]Phoxxent 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
but, the Huns were male, right?
[–]notacrackheadofficer 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You got it, hun.
[–]Funcuz 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You're referring to Catherine the Great I presume but it was Genghis Khan who created the largest land-based empire in history.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think he means Queen Elizabeth I
[–]MrArtless 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That would be Victoria actually.
Doh, I knew I would botch that.
[–]Grubnar -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, I am not.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Also, it is always ignored that the largest empire this world had ever seen was ruled over by a woman.
Ignored by who? When does this come up in conversation?
Now?
[–][deleted] 41 points42 points43 points 12 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Source: "Is Everyone Really Equal? An Introduction to Key Concepts in Social Justice Education," page 46 (bottom).
A larger PDF excerpt of the book can be found here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5397833&d=1360855898
Book here: http://www.amazon.com/Everyone-Introduction-Concepts-Education-Multicultural/dp/080775269X
Authors: Drs. Ozlem Sensoy and Robin DiAngelo
Ozlem Sensoy is a professor at Simon Fraser University (SFU). Faculty bio page here: http://www.educ.sfu.ca/profiles/?page_id=253
SFU is the same university in which students rose up to oppose the creation of a men's center. See the AVFM article on it here: http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/sfu-feminists-say-stfu-to-male-students/
Robin DiAngelo is a professor at Westfield State University. See her webpage here: http://www.robindiangelo.com/
[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm entirely not surprised that this nonsense originates from Canada. My country has turned into a institutionalized cesspool of this garbage.
[–]Swimmingsolid 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes. Why is this? What is going on here?
[–]Terrh 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The most ironic part is that we have a Female head of state.
[–]owenrhys 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Why are these all on bodybuilding.com ?!
I made a mistake with the second link (fixed now). I have no idea why the pdf in the first link is downloadable from there.
[–]Demonspawn 404 points405 points406 points 12 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link
Women control 55% of the vote, therefore holding more political power than men.
Women control 80% of consumer spending, therefore holding more economic power than men.
Therefore, it's men who cannot be sexist under such definitions.
[–]femdelusion 163 points164 points165 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
FYI.
[–]TheDoctorMouse 16 points17 points18 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it looks like that article is demonstrating a lack of evidence to back up that claim that women control 80% of consumer spending. Can someone please explain? Thank you in advance.
[–]SchalaZeal01 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It really depends on your discretionary income.
The less you have, the more women spend. And since men make more of the money, but don't spend more of it (except for dating, but I mean within a couple), the ratio is even more lopsided.
Consider that even in relatively poor households, the woman will have 3-4x the amount of clothes the man has. And probably that in shoes, too, provided neither plays a sport requiring special shoes (like golf, bowling, ballroom dancing, soccer).
In the relatively well-off household, the guy will have his toys, too. Except clothing is considered necessary, a 60 inch TV isn't. So that's why it would skew.
In my opinion anyways.
I do have 3-4x more clothing than my boyfriend, but unlike the average, most of mine is second-hand, with a small portion I bought 10 years ago. And some I got for 1-2$ at a charity shop. Not counting a dress I bought for 250$ in Japan, my clothing must be worth a whole 300$. Maybe I'm generous. I'm also counting the shoes.
I spend in video games, and computer upgrades. Not that I spend much, since I don't have much, but most of it goes there anyways.
[–]ejp1082 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's groceries and home supplies. Women do most of the supermarket shopping. And food is a pretty fixed part of the household budget, so the less money you make the bigger a proportion of your budget it is. In a poorer household it can easily be 80% all by itself.
[–]SchalaZeal01 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
and decorating, and clothing
But the stereotype of 'moms' on TV is that you have to eat bread with 25 cereals, stuff without sugar, without fat, without anything that tastes good. And without meat. Because eating healthy shit is better than eating tasty slightly-less-good-for-you shit, apparently.
You'll note that in those TV ads, the husband and the children of both sexes, usually want the white bread, the sugar, the fat and the meat. And the mom breaks the fun.
[–]miroku000 -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"involved in" is not the same as the person actually doing the spending. http://www.gfkmri.com/PDF/MRIPR_111209_HouseholdShoppers.pdf
[–]Demonspawn 76 points77 points78 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Meh, still "more than half" so it applies.
[–]femdelusion 115 points116 points117 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough. I'm just trying to keep people honest.
[–]Demonspawn 45 points46 points47 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No problem. I even upvoted you for your correction.
I was "meh" because while I wasn't completely accurate, the updated facts did not change the validity of my point.
[–]miroku000 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually, according to the source cited in that article, it was much more than 80% in 1989 but shrunk to around 75-78% in 2009. So it is not 80% but rather 75%. This is different than 80%, but not significantly different in terms of the argument about economic power.
http://www.gfkmri.com/PDF/MRIPR_111209_HouseholdShoppers.pdf
Category 2009 1989 ALL HOUSEHOLD PRODUCTS 75.1 85.5 , BABY/CHILDREN’S PRODUCTS 78.4 88.8 , FOOD PRODUCTS 75.1 85.5 , NON-FOOD PRODUCTS 75.1 85.6 , PET FOOD & PRODUCTS 78.0 88.4
[–]the_pin 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Just as a point, I know people that work at consultant agencies (and this one in specific) and when they are asked to speak about a subject like this, they literally do google searches (not even good ones) to get their answers. I was told by a friend the other day that he was asked to research a subject for an interview a partner was doing, and he literally searched google and wrote some garbage and then watched on tv as the partner quoted specific numbers (with qualifiers, i.e. "we estimate that..") that were basically pulled out of thin air.
In conclusion, they aren't reliable sources. Again I am not saying the 80% number is true although I assume it is well above 50%.
[–]nigglereddit 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I know people that work at consultant agencies (and this one in specific) and when they are asked to speak about a subject like this, they literally do google searches (not even good ones) to get their answers.
Well they're obviously not very good consultants. Professionals buy data from market research companies which is usually pretty accurate.
Well, let's be honest: A huge margin of the money men spend are gifts to women or products they need in order to attract women.
But regardless, the only thing that matters, is, that women do have economic power. The statement made in the original post is plain stupid.
The reality is that they only need to contribute roughly 50% to be considered sharing economic power. I'd rather assume that than to take a chamce of wrongly over estimating.
[–]Number357 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
More social power, too. Pretty much all double standards in relationships (men being expected to take all the initiative, men paying for things, men working long hours so the wife doesn't have to) benefit women at the expense of men, and are enforced by women more than men. Women are clearly more valued socially (try going to a singles bar as a man), and they use that power to enforce numerous double standards to their benefit.
[–]BatmanBrah 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Eventually when this becomes more well known, feminism's definition of sexism will change. It's essentially a self serving philosophy. It's definitions of things are definitions which are convenient to the cause.
[–]Raudskeggr 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Combine that with a growing amount of institutional power--such as that power necessary to introduce Women'sGender studies courses into universities, and expel the menz based on anonymous allegations of sexual misconduct.
But they're still claiming that women have no power; as if it were still 1870 and Queen Victoria was still ruling half the planet. Oh, wait...
So yeah, these people really are living in an Orwellian fantasy.
Or, if you prefer, Cardassian
[–]rumdiary 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
I don't think those statistics alone account for what defines Power.
[–]Demonspawn 38 points39 points40 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Political power: in a democracy, those who have more votes have more power.
Economic power: those who decide where the money is spent have more power.
They define power according to the sourced book.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
We are more a Republic than a Democracy. Most of the important votes arent cast by citizens, their cast by the representatives we voted in to vote for us.
Now, if all women voted and did so unanimously they could elect pretty much anyone they wanted since they are the majority.
[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We are more a Republic than a Democracy.
The actions of the political parties are not the problem, but rather a symptom of a deeper problem: A Constitutional Republic cannot survive Universal Suffrage.
Even if we were to revolt, all we would do is reset the timeline before another revolt is needed. This will continue until we fix the underlying problem by recognizing recognize that government is little more than a money redistribution system and as such those who do not fund the system with money to be redistributed should not get a say in how said money is redistributed.
Why can't a Constitutional Republic survive Universal Suffrage? Because politicians will bend the rules and make a small violation to rob Peter in order to buy Paul's votes. We cannot prevent this.
We can't vote them out of office, because they are doing what they are doing in order to buy the votes to get reelected.
We can't bring legal actions against them, because there isn't the public support (see #1) and because they are the ones creating the laws (ignoring the Constitution).
Revolt is unlikely due to the slow progressive nature of the changes. Each change doesn't seem like worthy of revolution viewed on it's own... it is hard to justify the loss of lives in order to turn back law A or law B or law C (but perhaps for ABC together, but that's why they were made 5-10 years apart).
It's a classic boiling frog problem. You can't fix it by replacing the hot water with cold water, you have to fix it by turning off the flame under the pot.
Even without that, they influence elections and government greatly:
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/WashTimesWomensSuff112707.html
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~iversen/PDFfiles/LottKenny.pdf
Excerpt: Academics have long pondered why the government started growing precisely when it did. The federal government, aside from periods of wartime, consumed about 2 percent to 3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) up until World War I. It was the first war that the government spending didn't go all the way back down to its pre-war levels, and then, in the 1920s, non-military federal spending began steadily climbing. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal — often viewed as the genesis of big government — really just continued an earlier trend. What changed before Roosevelt came to power that explains the growth of government? The answer is women's suffrage.
[–]rumdiary 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh fair enough, didn't realise you were referencing the original image and rebutting it. Good call in that case.
[–]denversocialist -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This assumes that 1) democracy in the US is entirely without check and reliant on sheer numbers. Even without knowing much about the US system, you'd have to acknowledge that our districting negates that. It also assumes 2) that consumer decisions are the equivalent of economic control.
[–]Landarchist 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
our districting negates that.
Are you implying districts are gerrymandered by gender?
[–]denversocialist 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Not at all, only that since we have districts that are disparate in power and influence, 55% of voters doesn't actually mean anything in terms of political power.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
In each district other than Alaska you will have a majority female electorate. So what is your point, socialist?
[–]753861429-951843627 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Gerrymandering in FPTP-systems means that you can have minority-elected governments. That's his point. Gerrymandering happens along party lines. More women vote democrat. Women being the majority of the electorate does therefore not necessarily mean anything (it does also not imply the opposite, if that's your problem).
Considering the Republican/Democrat split by gender, it could very well be somewhat gerrymandered by gender: correlation rather than intentional tho.
Altho considering that genders very much intermingle, it's unlikely.
[–]OpineControversial -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
At least in regard to political power, that's not really true. Power is held by those who have the most influence over those who legislate. Currently, that power is held by Fortune 1000 CEO's, 95.4% of whom are male. Power does not rest with the vote when the representative does not represent the majority.
And economic power would have to be broken down a hell of a lot more specifically to make any real determination of power by gender.
[–]SchalaZeal01 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Those 95.4% men legislate in favor of women's issues, and don't even care about men's issues.
Where they'll do stuff for themselves will be voting for rich people's issues.
[–]elevul 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women control 80% of consumer spending
Holy crap.
Isn't Hilary Clinton running for president soon?
[+]ModsCensorMe -8 points-7 points-6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Except the part where Congress is only about 15% women.
[–]Number357 16 points17 points18 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In a democracy, where 55% of the voters are women, which is part of why members of congress pay far more attention to women's issues than they do to men's.
[–]edtastic 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What matters more than the gender of a political leader is the power of the lobbies placing demands on them and in that the women's lobby is vastly more dominant than the men's lobby. You are letting the numbers confuse you. Power isn't in the gender of the leader or we wouldn't be desperately seeking attention for men's issues right now.
[+]uglyneighbor -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women control 100% of the pussy hence have all the power. Men can not be sexist (says the man)
[–]AlexReynard 34 points35 points36 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Golly, it's almost as if they're covering their asses against accusations of being bullies so they can be bullies as much as they want to and feel righteous about it.
[–]JixxyJexxy 41 points42 points43 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Is that a textbook photo? If so I'm going to go cry inside for a while.
[–]golemsheppard 56 points57 points58 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Its a women studies textbook.
[–]Mouuse97 23 points24 points25 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
White straight man. But it's not my job to educate you.
[–]Gobbert 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You dropped a "shit-lord".
[–]INeedANewAccountMan 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
White Cishet Man. Because the tumblr SJW's make up words and expect everyone to follow them.
Yep.
[–]Mouuse97 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it's pronounced "ciché"
[–]PurpleSfinx 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wait, what the shit? The tumblr-style 'Social justice' is something you can actually study?
That's even stupider than making the doge meme a university class.
[–]Crackerjacksurgeon 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women are >50% of the electorate. Boom, automatic institutional power on all levels.
Men can't be oppressors.
/s
[–]iggybdawg 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Economic power: in USA, men earn more money, but women spend more money. ಠ_ಠ
[–]edtastic 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women control 85% of consumer spending = Economic Power
Women make up 54% of the electorate = Political Power
There are 200 Women Studies Departments on campuses across the country whose gender ideology dominates the social science = Institutional Power
Any questions?
[–]ZimbaZumba 38 points39 points40 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Redefining sexism as requiring institutional power is an attempt to redefine our language. Orwell and Huxley warned about it in 1984 and Brave New World. They were more prophetic than originally imagined.
[–]knowless 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Once they hold institutional power they will deny and redefine.
[–]heterosapian 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
...Let’s first define racism with this formula: Racism = racial prejudice + systemic institutional power.
Saw this on my FB feed today... we have already apparently redefined racism as requiring institutional power.
[–]SpecialFester 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How do you define institutional power? Does that mean no minorities have it? There are no companies or industries dominated by minorites? There are no powerful special interest groups for minorities? The NAACP doesn't have any institutional power? Minorities have no institutional power? An unfounded accusation of racism can't cost someone their job?
Is what they mean, racism = racial prejudice + the MOST systemic institutional power? And how does one determine whether one has the most institutional power. Which entities are worth more? What is the base unit of institutional power we can use for comparisons? Oppress-a-bytes?
[–]heterosapian 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They'll simply reconstruct the definition to mean whatever they want it to mean: namely that only white males can oppress others. Extra points if they're straight, successful, fit, and educated.
[–]notacrackheadofficer 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Most people don't know about Huxley's ''Ape and Essence'', and it's a doozy
[–]ZimbaZumba 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you, I shall read it.
[–]Remixer96 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
From what point are you starting your definition?
To my knowledge, academia has had the institutional views of -isms for several decades now.
[–]ZimbaZumba 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
More precisely certain factions within Academia; factions that many would say are those from the aforementioned books who are trying to change our language, so unacceptable thoughts can't be easily expressed or even conceived of.
The meaning of words are defined by their common usage, not by those in Academia. The majority of users of the word sexism wouldn't even know what the phrase '"institutional power" means.
[–]Remixer96 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The meaning of words [to regular people] are defined by their common usage, not by those in Academia.
I don't disagree with you on this point (extra words added hopefully for precision). I'm only pointing out that Academia pretty vehemently disagrees with this, and often repurposes terms in its own context.
I also disagree about factionalism in Academia on this term. When I was in school, every reference to racism/sexism that I came across involved institutional power as the primary definition, not prejudice.
[–]ZimbaZumba 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Meanings of words other than those understood by regular people are by definition specialized jargon. We will simply have to disagree on the factional issue. The addition of the institutional setting qualification to the -isms was not part of their original definitions and is at most a couple of decades old.
There is a need in our language to describe what most people perceive as sexism, racism or any-ism that does not necessarily include institutional power. The presently existing words where designed for this purpose, are primarily used for this purpose and are powerful words. As words they are simply too useful to be redefined.
Many observers would say that some are trying to co-opt these words, with the associated weight they have garnered, for their own purposes and remove them from the use of others. It is Orwellian and many aren't buying it, including the general population.
(Another example of this is the co-opting is of the word 'Rape', up until relatively recently it had the very broad meaning of 'to destroy'. The crop Rape Seed had to be renamed Canola because of this.)
[–]stoudman 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sexism is not defined by the amount of power one has in a society, it is defined by the philosophical approach one takes to gender roles. This is the stupidest argument I've seen in a while.
[–]MTknowsit 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
See? Anyone can write a textbook, and they can say anything in it, no matter how inane. This is why you should question everything.
[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
There is no reverse racism or reverse sexism since all racism against (I'm assuming) whites is just plain racism. Sexism against men is sexism. Period. Also, what kind of retarded statement is that: "Women don't hold economic, political and institutional power." Last time I checked, there were plenty of rich/politically powerful women all over human history. And if you take into consideration how utterly manipulated many men are in their pathetic attempts to gain women's approval, I'd say women are the most powerful group of people on this planet.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” - Voltaire
[–]The_real_voltaire 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Hey just so you know that quote doesn't come from me (go ahead and find a primary source if you wish to prove me wrong), but rather a neo-nazi pedophile named Kevin Strom.
[–]ScottFree37 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and no matter who said it, it's very insightful.
[–]The_real_voltaire 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
He was talking about how you can't question the "Jewish lies" of the holocaust because the Jews control everything. Because he is a neo-nazi.
Anyway, whatever, I wish people would stop mis-attributing that quote to me. It's getting annoying.
[–]phySi0 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, you should be able to question anything, so if it's true that “you can't question the "Jewish lies" of the holocaust because the Jews control everything”, then he has a point, whether he is right or not.
Aw, shit. I liked this quote very much. Thanks for the correction, though.
[–]Ted8367 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There is no such thing as ... the reverse of any form of oppression.
Shorn of connotations of sex or race, the mendacity of this feminist argument by assertion stands out.
[–]Crackerjacksurgeon 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It'd be hilarious if this was said to any minor noblemen in 1910s russia.
[–]dontmindmeee 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The dumbest shit I have ever read.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Spend more time on Tumblr
[–]dontmindmeee -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I looked up what Tumblr is and no.
well then, sir, I would propose that you have set the bar for "the dumbest thing I've ever read" a little low.
[–]Magicslime 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What's most alarming is the subliminal messaging here - "Women can be just as prejudiced as men" implies that men are prejudiced, and sometimes women are also prejudiced. If it were an unbiased statement (and I know, it's obviously not) it would state "Women are just as prejudiced as men".
It could also be a way to say they're equal.
"Women can be just as prejudiced as men"
X can be just as good as Y doesn't necessarily mean Y is the gold standard, or that most Y are at this standard.
For example, army fitness standard, most men, without training, can't pass it either. It's just that once they sign up they expect to train hard to make it, apparently the women who signed up didn't expect that hurdle - but once they got a similarly tough training, they would also pass it.
[–]harryballsagna 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Women cannot be sexist because it's extremely inconvenient to my feminist sloganeering."
-A feminist under a shot of sodium pentothal
[–]laurence88 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Half right, there's no such thing as reverse racism or sexism it's all just racism and sexism.
[–]KRosen333 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link
Anything?
Anything at all?
Write a letter to the publisher? Make an infograph to spread awareness? What do you propose we do.
edit:
want to do more?
http://www.teacherscollegepress.com/contact.html
Contact the publishers.
Tell them that you don't agree with these concepts and are disappointed that such a low quality textbook is published by them. Here is the book data in question.
Is Everyone Really Equal? An Introduction to Key Concepts in Social Justice Education ?zlem Sensoy and Robin DiAngelo Multicultural Education Series Pub Date: November 2011, 240 pages Paperback: $30.95, ISBN: 080775269X Cloth: $66, ISBN: '0807752703 $30.95 Add to Cart - Is Everyone Really Equal? An Introduction to Key Concepts in Social Justice Education
Is Everyone Really Equal? An Introduction to Key Concepts in Social Justice Education ?zlem Sensoy and Robin DiAngelo Multicultural Education Series Pub Date: November 2011, 240 pages
Paperback: $30.95, ISBN: 080775269X Cloth: $66, ISBN: '0807752703 $30.95 Add to Cart - Is Everyone Really Equal? An Introduction to Key Concepts in Social Justice Education
If we could come up with some sort of group statment and send it to even the dean it would be volumes better than nothing, now that this has been brought to our attention.
Upvoted your comment for visibility.
[–]SpecialFester 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Believe it or not we're already doing it. But please, actively bring the message to as many as possible. I'm being encouraged by my counselor to start a Men's Group on campus. We're going to the office together to find out how.
It's been exploding. Their's going to be a tipping point of no return. When the awareness spreads enough and the shaming techniques are so widely known they are spotted and ineffective, then the Feminists are in trouble.
That's all it takes is for it to start to be a large enough group that men start to have the ability to jump ship without fear, because it's getting less controvertial, they all will rapidly. It will all start to seem so obvious once the Feminists lose control of the narrative.
It's happening fast. The feminists are terrified. They're not stupid, weak, or helpless. They're very smart. They know exactly what their doing. They know what they can exploit and they aren't the least bit ashamed to do it. The whole reason the rape thing is such a big deal is because concsciously or not, they know that control of sex is a woman's most powerful tool. It always has been. The fact that a woman can ruin a man's life with just an accusation, and that they have locked up the narrative so that even pointing this out is dangerous. That is no accident.
Yeah, they're no idiots. They're very shrewed. Very shrewed.
[–]KRosen333 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Just remember, focus on the victims, not the perpetrators.
bringing "the feminists" into it just muddles the message! :)
[–]edtastic 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The feminists and their propaganda are the problem. The perpetrators and victims matter in this conversation because if we don't mention female perpetrators they'll assume it's always men. Why would they do that? Because that's what feminists told them.
[–]KRosen333 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, you could do that, but I think it would be way more productive to focus on the male victims, to humanize them, than to focus on the perpetrators. Think about it; they always say if you want school shootings to stop you focus on the victims and not the shooter. Why would male gendered issues be any different?
[–]hugged_at_gunpoint 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Stop trying to start a gender war.
Well, looks like some folks have already decided to start spamming bad reviews of the book on amazon. 7 new 1 star reviews in the last day (out of 17 total reviews since the book was published)
[–]edtastic -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The male privilege versus female privilege debate is an old one but we have to imagine a whole new paradigm for gender that recognizes forms of power that don't show up in relations between other groups.
[–]KRosen333 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Are you going to write about it? That would be interesting to hear.
[–]Falkner09 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
so women can be prejudiced against men, but can't be sexist.
In the same way they can be human, but not a primate. nice.
[–]Crackerjacksurgeon 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
can be prejudiced against men, but can't be sexist.
No, in the same way blacks can be separate but equal.
[–]CaptainChewbacca 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If an institution is handing down broad-sweeping ultimatums about what we can and cannot say about women, wouldn't that be construed as an 'institutional power'?
[–]kami232 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Gonna take the context to another relevant point now:
There is no such thing as reverse racism or reverse sexism
Aye, it's right there - it's just racism and sexism across the board. Calling it "reverse" anything is trying to dance around a PC agenda; it implies racism and sexism have different values based on who the parties are. Bullshit. Racism is racism; sexism is sexism.
And then the rest of the statement takes a giant dump.
[–]edtastic -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Well that's because racism/sexism do have different values based on who the parties are but you can't set a rule for the whole society or world that automatically picks your favorite victim. That determination is context dependent. Minorities in the society are not always powerless. Majorities are not always powerful. People from powerful social groups are sometimes put in positions where thy can be dominated by less powerful groups. That needs to be recognized but not exploited to allow the dominant group to persecute the less powerful ones.
[–]kami232 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So if a white man insults a black man, it's worse than the inverse? Justifying racism in any capacity is an insult to common decency. The same is true with sexism - it's not OK to be sexist to women, but the moment anybody even dares mention how women can be sexist towards men they're labeled as some "not worth the time" misogynist. The name of the game is to degrade, to devalue. The moment we start claiming one is worse than the other, or it's OK sometimes... we set up a society that is OK with sexism and racism. Pulling the Hitler Card: the European Jews, Communists (or even Socialists), and the non-Übermensch type of person was viewed as lesser... and look at how that turned out.
One of the steps all people have to take to fight racism and sexism is to note that all instances of it are equally bad, no matter how you put it.
That is the most sexist thing I've ever seen!
Women can't hold institutional power? Check your privilege, book.
[–]pretzelzetzel 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If your definition of '-ism' is 'systematic oppression', then it stands to reason that an underclass can't be -ist. This is just a tautological statement. My problem is that this type of Marxist definition is tacitly accepted in so many of the social "science" disciplines without being examined whatsoever. Any rational person ought to be inclined toward much deeper reflection when presented with such a clearly subjective interpretation of the issue. You can't blame the students for winding up lacking critical thinking skills, though. They are actively discouraged from critical analysis of the core tenets of their fields of study.
Angela Merkel likes this.
They have always defined sexism and racism like that.
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
This is a common premise when describing the distinction between racism and prejudice. For example, you're prejudice if you hate someone for being black. You're racist if you hold any power and your prejudice is used to influence your decisions towards black people. You don't have to be at the highest levels of a company or our government to be racist. Power can be in the form of being a manager of a McDonalds or being the leader of a school project.
So while I guess I can agree with the original premise, the belief that we have no women CEO's, politicians, that we basically have no women in charge, is incredibly stupid and sexist in itself, which then destroys the initial premise. If there are women in power, and they hate men, and allow that to influence their decisions, then they are sexist, and therefore reverse sexism can exist.
[–]dejour 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think there is a case for making a distinction between power+prejudice and prejudice alone. Perhaps a term should be coined to denote that.
But I don't think that it should be labeled racism or sexism. Those words have meanings in the dictionary, and it's closer to prejudice.
[–]HalfysReddit 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Racism and sexism are just more specific forms of prejudice.
Racism = prejudice based on race. Sexism = prejudice based on sex.
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Which means that if you think women get pregnant and men don't, you're sexist!
Which is why racism and sexism are meaningless words who's only function is to PC-police.
I don't think you need to agree with the premise. Just think of it as an assumption, so you can say something like: assuming that sexism and prejudice should be defined this way, it still doesn't follow that women cannot be sexist or that men cannot be merely prejudicial.
Well thats why I said the premise works...IF women didn't exude and posses any form of power but we all know that isn't true. Then its safe to assume at least one of these women doesn't like men, afterall they struggled to climb the career ladder of patriarchy. It's further safe to assume these women let those prejudices influence their decision, thus reverse sexism is possible.
[–]Pepper989 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thankyou for typing this because I couldn't find the words to explain it correctly
... said the sexist quote
Ridiculous. Even if you believe that men hold the vast majority of political, economic, and institutional power in your country, that doesn't mean that women hold none. Even if you define sexism as requiring some kind of power to act on your prejudice (a definition which I haven't seen included in any dictionaries,) women could still be "sexist" in the venues where they hold power.
[–]bitwolfy 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women... do not hold political, economic, and institutional power.
I find this statement somewhat sexist.
[–]MyPrettySnatch 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you!
My boss is a woman. My boss's boss is a woman. My boss's boss's boss is a woman.
I work with more women than men.
I think this hits the ecological fallacy too. Even if men as a group have power, an individual man may not have power.
[–]Arby01 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Reminds me of the "It can't be 'gay marriage'. Read the bible's definition, you can call it a 'civil union'" hissy fit.
power through language is exactly right.
[–]wildfire2k5 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Let me just go to fantasy land where men don't get raped, they have equal prison sentences, they can drown their kids without fear of retribution, and they have an entire support network dedicated to the betterment and well bei...waaaaaaait a second...
[–]idontcontributemuch 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The last sentence should qualify as being sexist in itself, right? "Women are weak and have zero influence in society, totally not sexist."
[–]Chevellephreak 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Female here, pretty sure I can be just as bad as a man :/
[–]Caelamid 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just a super subtle attempt at controlling language, so as to control discourse in general. If we forget the language to describe sexism perpetrated by women, we become limited in our ability to strive against it.
This is terrible. There is no such thing as reverse sexism because it's all sexism. Reverse sexism is equality.
And... the rest... just no.
[–]Electroverted 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow, women really need to get in on that shit!
[–]Kozmosis 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is rather depressing.
[–]Roddy0608 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, they got the first sentence correct.
[–]shadowmonk 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I just love the irony in this.
[–]GeekofFury 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Horse shit.
wtf were queens doing then if they weren't holding power
That text is pretty damn sexist implying that women "do not hold political, economic, and institutional power".
God I fucking hate how feminist agenda has infected every facet of our society. Absolutely disgusting that they'd brainwash children with their victim mindset.
[–]armadillo_armageddon 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The queen of England, just another oppressed victim with no political, financial or institutional power.
I thought women held 3/5ths of a single vote?
[–]arkindal 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's true, there is no such thing as reverse racism or reverse sexism. It's just racism and sexism, not reverse, simple sexism.
[–]faber541 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Other than my teachers.
[–]shinarit 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But that is plain false. I mean, even if we accept the bullshit that prejudice has to be accompanied with power, women DO have power. Just as not all men are in powerful position, some women are in those positions. It's not about gender, it's about the individual. There is no secret male society.
[–]justthrowmeout 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This might be true circa 1890
[–]gsettle 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Blah, blah, blah...YES, women can be are some are sexist!
[–]NightSingerDayCaller 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ironically a sexist statement. lol
[–]bh3244 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
if it makes you feel better, the people who proclaim this stuff never achieve anything of worth in life.
[–]tomsix -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They persuade others to make society crappier. Unfortunately they can't just be ignored.
[–]joshsavage 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Um got half right. There is no such thing a reverse sexism. Its just sexism. Claiming that its reverse is sexist in its own right
[–]lazlounderhill 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"They (unicorns and leprechauns) do not hold political, economic or institutional power", unless of course they have a penis.
[–]blkarcher77 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You know what though, they're right. There is no such thing as reverse sexism or reverse racism. Its simply sexism and racism. Doesnt matter who did it or who's the victim
[–]Hrel 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because they do not hold political, economic and institutional power.
Uh, yes, they do.
Oprah Winfrey, the Walton Family. Miley fucking Cyrus. Bunch of bitches with influence who did nothing to earn it. Well, ok, Oprah did at least earn it. Mostly.
[–]sk8zero0619 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Can confirm. Am sex
[–]thekingofdemons 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Are they saying that you have to hold political/social power to be racist or sexist?
While I do believe that political offices within the government make it easier for prejudiced policies against certain groups of people to be implemented...for various reasons. It's retarded to think that prejudice stems from political or social hierarchy.
[–]otter111a 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I actually find this to be really funny.
This box is basically saying that after years and years of trying women are no better off today than they have been in the past.
Put another way, either the box is incorrect and women hold a share of political, economic and institutional power and feminists have made gains and been successful
or
the box is correct and women hold no political, economic or institutional power and the feminist movement has been a failure.
[–]AtheistConservative 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just another fat time ideology that'll hang around until shit gets rough. No one would have cared about this sort of idiocy in WWI Britain.
[–]annefranksgasmask 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What screwed up book is this? Please, please don't be something trying to be an educational textbook.
Women's studies is, in its current state, completely incompatible with academia. It seeks to redefine the meanings of words to suit its arguments (such as racism, sexism, oppression, etc.) and is anti-intellectual to the core.
[–]NemosHero 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Institutionalized -ism =/= -ism
No, I won't stop.
What now, textbook? I'm running out of dry kindling for my firewood with all the rain here.
[–]cedartom 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What textbook is that printed in?
[–]Luckyluke23 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
...what?
[–]Odd666future 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That paragraph is literally sexist to both men and women at the same time.
I see, so feminism isn't a institution that wields power and influence in universities, media and government.
[–]HoundDogs 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Who decides these definitions and what is their evidence besides cult literature?
[–]SweetyMcQ 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What the fuck?
[–]lillojohn 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
XD So women are not equal.
[–]frackzilla 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the "equality" feminism has been fighting for and why it will never have my support.
Anyone can be sexist regardless of gender. Sexism isn't just about political or economic power. Clearly that was written by a feminist.
It's true, there is no such thing as reverse racism. There's just racism, and it can go in any direction.
Here is a way that you can respond using their own logic.
Given the entire conversation on gender including what is and isn't sexist is controlled by women at an institutional level - women cannot be sexist against men.
Given that women typically dominate family matters and family law, and the legal system which is the cornerstone of society is biased towards women - women cannot be sexist against men.
Given women are the majority of voters and therefore have most political power - women cannot be sexist against men.
Given the once we consider male to female relationship sharing and transfer, the money gap is likely significantly in women's favour - women cannot be sexist against men.
[–]Rabbit_TAO 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Source?
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rabbit_TAO -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you.
[–]GrosCochon 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh so the fact that my Première ministre is a woman doesn't count? What about my bank director? Or my school's board director? My own boss is also a woman so is my doctor, lawyer and mechanic. I'd say women have a pretty strong influence on my life. I didn't choose any of these but i don't care. You see unlike you I don't see prejudice in all these positions of power over me. Because I am comfortable in my person and position in life. People respect me ( I hope) because I bring opinion in an intelligent form and know when to stand down to allow said women to tell me about things she knows better than me.
Considering words are defined by how they're used, it becomes immediately clear that the word "sexism" merely serves to grant political and/or cultural power to the individuals using it. This is as much the case with now largely archaic terms such as "heretic".
There's no point in deciding upon an objective definition since they're not used objectively.
as a broke, politically neutral person, I'm glad I can say anything I want without being racist or sexist
[–]rotisserieve 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The reverse racism part gets me, too...i really hate this textbook wtf
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Institutionalized racism =\= racism
Institutionalized sexism =\= sexism
Socioeconomic and political institutions do not negate rather simply defined words.
Misandry isn't institutionalized, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
It's simply the hate of men. It doesn't have to be institutionalized for it to fucking exist.
BUT HEY LET'S REDEFINE WORDS TO FURTHER OUR CAUSE
Words are coined to describe a concept, an object, an idea. if someone is behaving the very definition of that word, then that makes the person that particular word. No matter institutionalization or not. Or would they prefer we made a word strictly to describe being hateful to someone for their ethnicity/skin color? Oh wait. We already do. It's called racism, RACE-ism.
[–]edtastic 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Of course it is and that's why we have a Men's Rights Movement. Do you think we were just talking about our feelings? Of course not there are actual public policies and laws that hurt men because they assume men are bad people. It's deeply institutionalized right down to the 60% disparity in sentencing between the sexes.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm just here to point out the irrational logic behind the textbooks "theory".
I don't like feminists or men's rights activists. Both harbor wackos and radicals that I don't want any part of.
Ill agree that there are laws made or rules in place to unbalance the divide between the sexes on both sides. To go far as to say its institutionalized to the extent misogny is? Well. I'm not as educated on the subject or as unbiased on the subject as I'd need to be to make such a comment. And I don't believe anyone on reddit is either.
You can posts graphs and statistics and so can feminists. At the end of the day I will take the egalitarian point of view and not involve myself with crazy people.
Edit: My personal belief is there is about as much socially institutionalized sexism towards men as there is towards women. Institutionalized misandry? Personally I believe it is extremely minimal/non existant compared to Instituionalized misogyny.
[–]Space_Ninja 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So, if i go to Haiti and I start liberally using the word nigger (dats racist) n-word everywhere I go, am I racist? Cause I have no power there, which means I can't be racist for using that word.
[–]Xach_ 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's sexist.
[–]VengefulFuries 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The thing is, even if that definition of discrimination was true, the point would still be false. Women are in charge of majority of purchases, they have the right to vote and they also hold seats in Parliament and Congress.
[–]DemiDualism -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To be fair, i think this says more about the term sexism than it does prejudice. The claim is that sexism is defined as the sex of higher power abusing the power over other genders. yes there are only 2 genders, but in the case of racism.. Black people cannot be racist towards Asians and vice versa (in general, in US at least) because neither holds political/social power over the other.
It doesn't mean that they cannot be prejudice (as the book points out) and that they are immune from those prejudices. . It's just not considered part of the -ism. Though I disagree, I can tolerate the argument that the -ism is more about actions that abuse a group of peoples power over a different group of people than it is about an individual acting out against another individual because they belong to two different groups.
In this line of thinking though, I would say the only fair consequence is that no individual can be sexist or racist, even white males.. Since the -ism is not defined by actions of any particular individual but of the laws/rules created by the group as a whole.
So i don't think the claim is outrageous.. but like I also said, I don't really agree with it either.
[–]Davethe3rd -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
STOP! There is no such thing as "reverse racism". Black people cannot be just as racist as white people because Black people do not hold any political, institutional or economic power.
...honky.
[–]Davethe3rd 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How about "There is no such thing as reverse racism or reverse sexism. There's just racism and sexism."
[–]U_R_Shazbot -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the same garbage that says only white people can be racist.
Ridiculous garbage
[–]Vandredd -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Intersectionality don't real. That picture has to be a joke. A rich white woman has more power than anyone but a rich white man. And that is only if that rich white man is richer than here. Its almost as if class and wealth play a Large factor.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I tell you what they are doing. They're trying to do science.
Woman A:) "We have a Problem - They say, we are just as sexist as Men"
Woman B:) "Well then, we have to make it impossible to be sexist for Women"
A:) "But, how would we do that?"
B:) "Well, we get the prerogative of interpretation for the word "Sexism"
A:) "Please Explain, what does that mean? I'm just a Woman, make it easier."
B:) "Oh, Sorry, I got carried away. So, we just make it impossible for a Woman to be sexist, by making the word MEAN something else!"
A:) "Duuhh.... uh..... Buy Shoes"?
B:) "What? No! Imagine: "Sexism" is something, that only someone with political, economical and institutional power can be." - Okay? And now we simply claim, that Women DON'T have political, economical and institutional power. Only men have that. Therefore, even if we are sexist, even if we are more sexist then men, we really are not, because that word does not apply to us.
A:) "... uhm... I dont... what does that... babble"
B:) Do you understand what that means? We actually... wait a second you're drooling, let me clean your chin... we actually change the meaning of the word. And we can do that again and again and again. For example, lets call Men we don't like "Creep". No matter what they do. If a Man you don't like looks at you, call him "Creep". We change the meaning of the word "rape" we make NEW words like "rape-culture" we combine harmless words with bad words to make them terrible... hm... for example.... RAPE-Stare! That's it. Men just don't stare at you, they RAPE you with their eyes. That is not okay!
A:) I understand....
B:) No you don't, but it's okay, that is why I am here.
A:) But you're a Man, why you're doing that?
B:) Because I want to help and respect women. By the way, how about we have lunch together?
A:) Eeeeeew, leave me alone, you creep, stop raping me!
[–]zenguyva -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Hillary Clinton? Quite possibly our next president...
[–]WillRob300 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't know why people are down voting you, so here is an up vote to balance it out
[–]zenguyva 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks ... I don't take it personally... it was just a random thought LOL
[–]PantsOnHead719 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"[Women] do not hold political, economic, or institutional power."
Wrong. Sexism and racism are what they are, there's no such thing as reverse oppression, because it's just oppression. Oppression is as oppression does, no matter who it comes from.
[–]CaptainMinty -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
That's sexist!
Edit: Since no one seemed to get it, the statement that women don't hold these positions of power is sexist. I bet Hillary Clinton would like to have a word about that. Eleanor Roosevelt is probably rolling in her grave.
[–]Macdaddy357 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
More lies from the ballbusting man haters, and self-loathing men they have cowed.
[–]PeteTheFirst -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sexism = views or actions which are prejudiced based on gender. Institutional whatever is fucking irrelevant. If person X makes a derogatory generalization based on the gender of person Y, person X is being sexist towards person Y. End of story.
[+]DaddyGoBot -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
tumblr
A bit redundant, no? Tumblr is notorious for being a feminist/SJW utopia.
[–]ILoveHate 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, but this looks like it's from a book.
[–]OmegaVesko 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The domain is a bit irrelevant if the photo is of an actual textbook..
[–]SpecialFester -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
One interesting thing to me is the fact that all of Gawker Media has to be banned from this sub.
Yup, Feminists have no institutional power whatsoever.
That would suck because I just posted a link from there. I see nothing to that effect on the side bar.
[+]fattyrips -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
It seems like people are getting hung up on sexism 'technically being prejudice based on sex'. This author is discussing radical definitions of sexism and racism, not definitions grounded within the linguistic framework of the hegemony.
The point that is being made here, which I, a male three-sport athlete and philosophy/poli-sci double major agree with, is that while women can clearly be sexist towards men, in actions or in words, it is a fundamentally different activity because it does not bring with it the weight of a history of oppression, in the same way as male chauvinism does.
A good corollary for thinking about this are the terms 'nigger' and 'cracker'. When a white person uses the term 'nigger' it is fundamentally different from when a person of color uses the term 'cracker' because the former is meant to invoke, and does, a history of genocide and enslavement, while the latter is a derogatory term, reactionary in nature to this oppression.
Similarly, a member of the proletariat cannot be accused of classism for refusing service to a member of the bourgeoisie because they are not in a position to invoke the sort of institutional repression as to oppress the bourgeoisie with their reactionary action.
Systemic and institutional bias on a historical level and scale is the relevant dimension in this discussion. You can equivocate on definitions of 'sexism', but the author is not discussing the same concept that many of you seem to be alluding to as proof of the author's incorrectness. (I'm a phil major, I can deconstruct language to determine intention and intension pretty goodly.) She is talking about the invocation of a history of institutional oppression by these acts of sexism, not that the act was directed at a particular sex.
We are men, we are privileged, lets just acknowledge it and try to construct a more fair and balanced world.
[–]Lance_lake 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah.. I know I'm privileged when I send my ex-wife a child support check and I can't convinced a judge that he would be better with me instead of some hoarder nightmare.
I'm feeling the privilege all over the place.
[–]someonelikegod 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe in the past, women have been oppressed, but the oppressors and those women are long dead, you need to look at what is going on right now!
Ironically, calling a white person "racist" evokes a similar reaction to calling a black person a "nigger". Same can be said at calling men "sexist". It evokes a very visceral emotional reaction. It may not have the full history behind it that "nigger" does, but at the rate feminism is going, just give it time.
[–]johnmarkley 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The point that is being made here, which I, a male three-sport athlete and philosophy/poli-sci double major agree with,
You know, feminist claims to be opposed to gender roles and "Patriarchy" and all that bad stuff would be more credible if feminist men didn't spend so much time bragging about how big and butch and macho they are.
Systemic and institutional bias on a historical level and scale is the relevant dimension in this discussion.
It doesn't work on that level, either, since the relative position of women and men does not even vaguely resemble that of blacks and whites or poor and rich.
You can equivocate on definitions of 'sexism', but the author is not discussing the same concept that many of you seem to be alluding to as proof of the author's incorrectness.
This would work as a defense if people who agree with the author's definition actually treated their idiosyncratic usages of words like "sexism" and "racism" as terms of art specific to their fields, and didn't claim that their definitions were in fact the only proper ones even when communicating with outsiders. Physicists aren't routinely telling people that it's wrong to call the President of the United States "powerful" because his metabolism puts out fewer watts than a manual laborer's, whereas the sort of people who think there's nothing sexist about rape laws that don't consider men and boys forced into sex by women rape victims don't limit themselves in that way.
We are men, we are privileged,
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that you are privileged; feminism seems to disproportionately draw its outspoken male members from the narrow slice of our sex that most resembles what feminists imagine men in general to be like.
[–]fattyrips -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
My only point was to establish that I make these points not because I too am marginalized by the patriarchy, but in spite of being empowered by the patriarchy. I tend to think the weight of a point is greater if it is clearly a point made against one's own interest.
Would you really disagree that women, who gained the right to vote federally not a century ago, half-way through our history as a 'democratic' nation, have been subjected to systematic prejudice?
Those are fundamentally different concepts, with fundamentally different domains of applicability (physical sciences vs. social sciences).
The author here is referring to a different concept than the street usage of sexism: it's a radical notion of what sexism is, and therefore it rejects some of the underlying assumptions the generic usage has, such as that all people can be equally victimized by prejudice.
There is a legitimate discussion to be had here as to in what contexts one definition ought to be used, whereas in your strawman, there is little discussion to be had as they simply have different domains in which they are relevant.
In a sexual harassment lawsuit centered on misandry, or your case of sexual abuse, this street definition of sexism is clearly more applicable.
But in a case where a woman crosses to the other side of the street to avoid walking by some large males, it is clearly not sexist, because this is a situation which draws on inequalities in social power, and invokes this sort of institutional bias.
I appreciate your jab at me, it would have been particularly astute on your part if I hadn't conceded that I myself believed it, in my original statement, but only as privileged as a white male with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt. Yes, education and perspective do tend to come out of privilege, which do in turn tend to inform feminist sympathies. How weird it is that the more educated tend to also be feminists. I'm sure it's just a fluke. </sarcasm>
I'm not saying that sexism cannot be perpetrated by women, or that men cannot be victimized, but I am saying that because they have differential institutional power, and a history of such oppression, that they are not always equally culpable for actions of 'sexism', in the colloquial sense.
[+]simulet -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
EXACTLY. I think sociologists need to work on finding a better way to communicate this concept, as most folks use "racist" to mean what a sociologist would call "prejudiced, based on skin color."
Something is just lost in the translation. You did an admirable job first explaining what is meant for those genuinely wondering about this, and then applying that information for everyone, i.e. calling men here to stop hiding behind semantics and work towards justice. Well done.
[–]IanAndersonLOL -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
The statement is true based on the definition of racism/sexism. Sexism/Racism means we live in a society when one or more races/genders is treated as inferior to another. Honestly, I don't think we live in a sexist society. I think there is a lot of sex based discrimination by, but I don't think we live in a sexist society. Anyway race/sex based discrimination are not the same thing as racism/sexism. They've both colloquially come to mean that, but since this is a text book we should assume they're using the proper definition of the terms.
[–]Arby01 -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Wow. Your thought is easily manipulated by an appeal to authority.
[–]IanAndersonLOL -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
What? Do you know what an appeal to authority is? It is that you dismiss evidence because it came from authority. I'm taking a zero context snippet from a textbook and assuming they're using the academic definition of racism/sexism. There is no evidence for me to dismiss. Nice critical thinking.
[–]Arby01 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It is that you dismiss evidence because it came from authority.
There was no evidence. You are assuming it is correct because it came from authority. However, you have seen also that the 'authority' in question is also redefining words to suit it's purpose. So quoting that authority is itself questionable.
[–]IanAndersonLOL -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
How has authority redefined words?
[–]Arby01 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Let's take a look at the dictionary.com definition of racism http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism
now, let's consider the text book definition that you have posted of sexism. It's a redefinition.
[–]Arby01 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
or the definition of sexism - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexism
[–]IanAndersonLOL -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wow since dictionary.com totally only use academic definitions right and not colloquial definitions?
how about Oxford dictionary?
ok - oxford and dictionary.com have the same definition - so your point was?
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
What's terrible about this?
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I guess I don't understand. How is it biased to suggest everyone is capable of sexism without regard to their sex/gender?
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
...no one here is denying sexism against women exists though...? It's not like you can only have one or the other.
[–]simulet -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I'm pretty sure most of this sub regularly denies sexism against women exists...glad that you don't, seriously, but I think there's a valid general point here.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I'm sorry you get that impression. Some of the members here have suffered due to societal perception that sexism against men cannot exist and let that cloud their judgment at times, but it's more about bringing issues that men suffer from to light. It's not exactly a common topic, but I promise the spirit of the sub is in good faith.
[–]OpineControversial -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
The credibility of the cause suffers for their clouded judgement, especially when they suggest ridiculous things like women controlling more political power due to greater numbers, which is the top fucking comment right now. It's willful ignorance for the sake of proving a point that was incorrect to begin with and I have more faith in the community here than to think that the actually believe that. Hinging your argument on a faulty premise and leaning on the support of the hivemind for validity seems to be the MO here.
Men do have legitimate issues that warrant discussion and this could have been the ideal place to bring them to light, but instead they focus on petty double standards, rejecting the concept of "privelage," and refuting the feminist cause, which also still has valid reason for existing.
These are just not compelling stances to ground an activist subreddit on. Male reproductive rights, eliminating the negative stigma of men as emotional beings, equal courtroom treatment, these are legitimate causes and, to the credit of the sub, are frequently brought to the front page here, but the comments invariably devolve into the same tired circlejerk of cherry-picked statistics, false equivalencies, and blatant/unintentional sexism, the latter of which being the more concerning because half of the people here don't even seem to know they're doing it. God help you if you point it out to them.
[–]johnmarkley 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The credibility of the cause suffers for their clouded judgement, especially when they suggest ridiculous things like women controlling more political power due to greater numbers, which is the top fucking comment right now.
Said comment refers to votes, not numbers. Which are not without relevance in a country where the government is elected. You could reply that this is a ridiculously crude measure of which sex wields greater power, and I'd agree, but no more so than the more popular method of going down a list of Senators or Fortune 500 CEOs and counting vaginas.
[–]Arby01 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The credibility of the cause suffers for their clouded judgement,
Ya, because people being angry because their kids are torn away from them and they are forced to pay for the privilege at the same time as having their options and life choices (like working for less money and having more free time) removed is an unreasonable idea.
Get lost troll. Anger is an appropriate response to a number of the injustices experienced.
especially when they suggest ridiculous things like women controlling more political power due to greater numbers,
Women are the largest percentage of the electorate. That carries a large amount of political power. If you were going to divide it by gender lines, women have more political power than men. Of course, that isn't how it works because the world is far more complicated than gender.
rejecting the concept of "privelage,"
That's because the concept of privilege and even intersectionality is seriously flawed.
and refuting the feminist cause, which also still has valid reason for existing.
No. Well, yes and no. As I have said before -
The overall stance against feminism that you see here isn't because "feminism is bad", it's because when an issue (something that feminism promotes that is actively harmful to men) is argued, you see large numbers of people defend the issue even when they don't understand or agree with it, because it is the "feminism position".
After seeing that a bunch of times, it's just easier to say, "feminism is bad" because that is the effect of the actions of the people that call themselves feminist. The distinction between feminism as practiced and feminism as believed by the majority of the "feminist" populace is simply irrelevant.
[–]Arby01 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
feminism is nothing more than promoting women. However many on this sub believe that by promoting only women you are at the same time marginalizing/devaluing men.
Really? Have you read the side bar - let us look at the top issues
child custody - parenting organizations put forward shared parenting - feminist organizations (you know, promoting women) - fight tooth and nail against.
Domestic violence - men attempt to found men-only shelters - feminist organizations rally to block funding.
Educational talks on Suicide based on Men and boys - ya know because dying at a rate of 3.5 or 4.5 times that of women might be considered something of a disparity and problem - feminists organize protests.
yada, yada, yada - feminism isn't simply "promoting women". In many cases it is promoting women at the cost of men and boys.
the problem is that men already are the dominant in society.
This is straight out of a gender studies textbook and now we understand where you are coming from. You haven't subscribed to this sub with the intent of understanding the Men's Rights complaints, experienced injustices or desire for social change. You came here expecting that "the power of feminism is just not understood, I'll change them". The problem that I see is that you can barely parrot the standard arguments let alone defend them and have probably realized that.
the underlying issue many in this sub feel is that they are being "threatened" from their established positon in society and choose to retaliate by devaluing feminism.
The power of feminism is well understood here. A lot more than you understand it. It isn't about the "threat to their established position in society" (another useless quote from a the feminist textbook). It's about actual harm being done.
As for unsubscribing, please do. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Nobody expects anything from a feminist true believer like yourself anyways. You're so entrenched in believing in your victimization theory that you can't even begin to understand any other side of the situation.
[–]DiarrheaThighs 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (13 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (11 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]simulet -4 points-3 points-2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]OpineControversial -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]johnmarkley 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Arby01 -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Arby01 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DiarrheaThighs 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link