Look out for these traits in yourself, acc. a narc in therapy

aquietsword · 2021-08-22T01:59:07+00:00

Oh wow. The macabre point. A guy has tried that with me before, bringing up questionable topics completely out of the blue. I could never put my finger on why it always bothered me SO much but this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for this post OP.

Painfulmenstruation · 2021-08-22T01:46:19+00:00

My stomach is in knots after reading that. I have chills.

boopsheeboo · 2021-08-22T02:42:55+00:00

Omg, I have a girlfriend that has every single one of these traits and completely vanished, socially, after getting with a new man that she rushed into marriage with. I’ve had a sneaking suspicion this was due to the man isolating her.

Lost_Kale90 · 2021-08-22T02:11:38+00:00

Wow that was weirdly scary for me to read. Very informative!

Vmchik · 2021-08-22T02:55:53+00:00

This was an amazing post. Saved it for reference because this is the most truthful information I’ve seen from a self proclaimed narc. Now I know exactly why they go for certain people and how to avoid that.

Alpha_Aries · 2021-08-22T02:40:57+00:00

Yep… narc supply people often have codependency traits they need to work on.

WatIsThis52 · 2021-08-22T04:17:40+00:00

I was narc supply to one of my exes. I had inklings before, but now I’m sure of it. It hurt to read this but I’m glad I did.

Shhhhhh86 · 2021-08-22T06:02:48+00:00

This was a tough read for me. I have a lot of work to do. Ugh, I don't know how I got here

Geocities_SEO_Expert · 2021-08-22T08:33:10+00:00

The bit about discussing seedy topics really cements in my mind that women have to behave like "a lady" around dates, not to be fake, not to be perfect, not to act better than other people, but to protect ourselves from men we don't know yet. A date is not your friend, you can't treat him like one.

I felt an intense need as a teen to not be "prudish", "stuck up", "fake", etc... I can't pinpoint where exactly it came from, obviously nowhere good. "Not like other girls" is like a modern religion at this point.

raindropsonnoses · 2021-08-22T02:06:13+00:00

This is on point. Except most narcs I've met think they are special shit.

The worst ones on the spectrum loved to gossip and talk about anyone behind their back. They don't have their best foot forward either. They only start getting better when you start getting worse.

Remember, if anyone makes you wonder 'why are they doing this/that' RUN.

fogplum · 2021-08-22T02:58:26+00:00

Very informative, thank you for sharing.

Coupon_Problem · 2021-08-22T03:11:28+00:00

Wow many thoughts. First, thanks for posting it. I'm reading this 3-months after leaving a very damaging relationship with an abusive man who was mentally ill and narcissistic.

An outline like this is helpful to deconstruct the "monster" of the narcissist. Narcissistic traits are banal, people with them are human, they do the things they do because it benefits them, plain and simple. They're not special kinds of monsters. It's also helpful to see how straight-forward the relational dynamics are in narcissistic relationships. It helps to take the "narc abuse" off its pedestal and empower women to be less confused about what's actually going on.

The traits this guy listed are probably ones that will resonate with many here. One, because they're extremely broad and human. It's the same effect (the Forer effect) that makes horoscopes seem personally accurate to a broad array of people. For example, many people experience self-doubt. Many people would endorse being social but also needing some alone time. Many people get giddy and wrapped up in a new relationship. Loneliness, insecurity, a desire to be loved by others are normal, human vulnerabilities. The guy says it himself: his "reformation" comes when he stops exploiting these everyday vulnerabilities people have. So anyone reading this saying, "I have to be less sensitive/I have to be less agreeable/I have to be less X" maybe change that story to "I have to be more alert to when my vulnerabilities are being exploited and when they're being used to help me grow."

Second, many of the traits listed reflect values and broad aspects of female socialization which are typically exploited, for example, agreeableness. These traits have the double societal mind-f*ck of "you should be this (i.e.,agreeable and cooperative)" but also society will ask you, "what you were expecting when you became so agreeable?" Narcissistic relationship or not, many people WILL devalue and exploit these traits, because they are coded as female and "weak.". It doesn't mean you have to be less cooperative, sensitive or easy-going (though that's what the patriarchy will tell you: to not get hurt or be weak, be more like a man). It does mean you have to refer to the question above: "is my sensitivity/agreeableness being exploited/used to hurt me?"

Now because it's not about changing your traits per se and more about recognizing when your normal vulnerabilities are being used against you, the most important thing I see here is to get a clear sense of your own boundaries. This is why FDS teachings are so important and why boundary clarification is, I'd argue, the #1 top tool in leveling up. This guy could have listed any number of exploitable vulnerability "red flag" traits because, as I mentioned, we ALL have aspects of ourselves that are vulnerable to predatory people. Predators gonna predate. So go on and be agreeable, sensitive and lonely but know how to look out for yourself. Know when to recognize you're being punished versus supported for addressing these normal human vulnerabilities. If you have difficulties setting boundaries, because you're a people-pleaser/have trauma/dissociate, get to know this about yourself, practice in your "safe" relationships and go slow in new romantic ones. Develop a relationship in yourself so that you can trust your instincts to give you clues that you're being taken advantage of or harmed.

At the end of the day

pqrsthrowawayyyyy · 2021-08-22T08:11:08+00:00

This was frightening. This was so incredibly frightening. It’s like someone has described the majority of my past interactions with partners and my family in a few slides.

to_learn_to_fly · 2021-08-22T08:52:21+00:00

Jesus. This is exactly the kind of narc I've found myself with (un)surprisingly often. And these used to be (and some still are) some of my personality traits.

And this:

"then I have to worry about the existential question about whether me encouraging character growth is just my narcissistic control stepping in"

was exactly why I put up with said narcs for years. I believed that what we had was actually a "supportive" relationship with them making me a better person. :/ Just because it might have had some positive side effect on my life. But yeah, it was what it was: only a side effect of the main goal, which was the narc moulding me to fit the idea of a perfect woman they wanted.

Wild_Artio · 2021-08-22T13:38:26+00:00

Well in the relationship with my ex narc, I quit an eating disorder for good, and stopped drinking and don’t shop at all anymore, so I’d say he was my last hurrah in the instant gratification nightmare.

Instant gratification on the other end in a HUMAN relationship is called intermittent reinforcement. It’s interesting how he phrases it on the victim’s end as needing instant gratification; then goes on to mention drugs, alcohol, shopping. The difference between a narcissist and drugs, alcohol and inanimate objects is that drugs et al. don’t go seeking out someone who needs their instant gratification (aka hormonal cocktail of dependency). They exist purely on their own and a human becomes addicted without any efforts on the part of drugs et. al. Drugs and the like have no consciousness to understand that a dependent person’s life is being ruined by that dependence. This narcissist clearly doesn’t lack consciousness. And I mean I’m not impressed at his clarity of his patterns because he’s not discussing how he’d like to change these patterns. He’s blaming his supply.

He thinks he’s an an ex narc bc he has awareness. Typical disturbed character behavior to blame it on others behaviors and not his actual entitled, poor character and lack of morals.

It doesn’t take two. That’s the best deflective lie narcissists have and it’s utter bullshit. It takes one person to create a transactional dependency based relationship. It takes two to build a legitimate mutual connection. And narcs go into them claiming they want that when they don’t. They want someone submissive and dependent. And anxiety, submissiveness, dependence and the other traits he listed are not toxic traits, they’re human traits.

What makes them harmful is when someone lacking character paradoxically depends these traits in order to feel relevant. The mirrors in human relationships never cease to amaze me. On both sides.

haggis_rising · 2021-08-22T14:54:18+00:00

Unnerving insight into a narcissist. While he claims to be fixing his issues the whole post feels like a big ol' neg to introverts and those who fall on the empathetic side.

As another poster here explained, human vulnerabilities aren't weaknesses or 'red flags' in the way that narcissistic behaviour is. Being empathetic and introverted or someone who has suffered 'dark times' or feels lonely isn't on the same level as a manipulative abuser who shrewdly exploits another's lack of boundaries to their own benefit. He's trying to put himself and the women he abused on a similar neurodiverse scale, a "we're both as bad as each other" argument.

Nah. Empathetic folk care about others feelings, narcs don't. They won't take full responsibility for their behaviour either. "Yes, maybe I was abusive but it would never had got so far if she wasn't so lonely/macabre/anxious...etc". Bloody chilling. He needs therapy till the asteroid comes.

That's why FDS advocates setting strong boundaries and block & delete, so that your vulnerabilities aren't flashing like a beacon and exposing you to predators and emotional vampires.

arnezuara · 2021-08-22T01:46:34+00:00

This was quite insightful. I can definitely relate to some of the traits that I see in myself; I also recognized some techniques my ex used on me.

I’m definitely saving this post, thank you, OP!

sacchilax · 2021-08-22T06:19:25+00:00

This was one of the scariest things I’ve read. Oh my goodness.

dkwantsdk · 2021-08-22T08:15:28+00:00

This is an absolute gift. Thank you to the recovering NPD for writing this and to you for sharing.

Cairenne · 2021-08-22T09:58:21+00:00

Grew up with narc parents and had a hella narc ex. Found myself nodding along to most of this and it’s fairly refreshing seeing someone with NPD discuss it.

But also yes. This is why getting your own mental health in order is absolutely vital.

p0ludnitsa · 2021-08-22T01:50:12+00:00

Dear god. Phenomenal information. Thank you so, so much for posting this.

I want to share something that isn't directly related but if it reaches even one woman who feels the same or relates, I will feel better.

I can personally attest to the "speaking about the macabre" point made here. I am that kind of person and was abused by a narcissist. As that kind of person, I believe that if that applies to you and you're a woman, you have a higher chance of being "into" BDSM, or more specifically a D/s relationship, like I was. If you are into BDSM, you probably identify as a sub. Subs submit. In the way that dogs or wolves roll onto their backs as a display of submission, relinquishing their power in the hiearchy, telling a man that you're a sub lets him know he has power over you, and not just sexually.

If you accept aggressive behavior because it's only during sex and it doesn't bother you and you tRuSt HiM... it should bother you. It should bother you a lot. I firmly believe that accepting BDSM or similar things is a gateway to all other forms of abuse because if he can hurt you physically for his own gratification at that time, he will not act with integrity, kindness, and love at other times.

extragouda · 2021-08-22T04:42:59+00:00

Whoa! I'm saving this.

Scu8agrl · 2021-08-22T11:43:49+00:00

This is why I don't date. I haven't healed enough to stop being a target. My last relationship was with a narc and I was left a shell of myself. Felt like 10 steps back. Be careful ladies.

Gourmay · 2021-08-22T17:15:41+00:00

This was a really heavy and good read. I dated several men with NPD (per two therapists), I expect many of us here have because I suspect many of us here are limerents. My therapist introduced me to that concept a few months back and it is vital to find other ways to love. Healthy love. And to work on yourself to recognize the patterns we are in and exit them. Many people don’t love like we do, they see disrespect and they leave; their gut will tell them something is wrong and they won’t even engage. A large part of FDS is about reaching that point and understanding that self-respect, honoring your wants, your limits, your dreams, is more important than having love, infatuation, limerance etc. It is self-protection. It is survival. Because the narcs sure as hell won’t change, so we have to.

We aren’t bad people for falling for the narcs but we become part of their equation in some fucked up way, the result of which is always zero.

Edit: Gave you gold by the way, I think this is one of the most important contributions to our sisterhood and community. The text itself contains some useful “traps” using Darvo that many in here have recognized and are just as important in understanding how these people operate so we can avoid them. I also hope awards help Reddit understand how big and meaningful this community is.

Z3z6 · 2021-08-22T05:44:08+00:00

It seems that individuals experiencing ptsd fit their victim profile. That is disgusting.

ArtisticBrilliant491 · 2021-08-22T17:34:07+00:00

As a recovering codependent raised by an overt narcissist father and codep mom, I served myself up on a platter to my soon-to-be-ex covert narc husband. He was raised by 2 narcissists so it was truly a match made in mentally ill hell, except that most of the hell- and chaos-making came from him as he enjoyed watching me scurry around and scrape for his scraps of positive attention. Boundaries?? What are those? If I could offer one piece of advice to younger women, including my daughter when she's older, do some considered and focused thinking, study, and therapy (if you can) to understand how any unhealthy family and other dynamics may have affected your ability to protect yourself in relationships. And how to act healthily towards partners who do not want or expect codep behavior.

It's taken several personal therapists, alot of reading and thinking and active consistent behavioral changes on my part to understand my role in attracting and staying with people who just want to take from me and abuse cuz it makes them feel better about their own mental illness. I vetted the fuck outta my husband since I was 33 when we got together. I knew that LTRs were hard and required work and compromise. Plus, I didn't want to marry dear old narc dad who wore his abusiveness and boundary-trampling on both sleeves. I was an independent and happy person when I was single before meeting my husband. I NEVER would have envisioned what I let my life turn into 14 years later. Divorcing a man cuz he put his hands on me in anger in front of our child. That was just the final tipping point. He's done me sooooooooo dirty with all of his lies and games, some of which I'm just now figuring out.

Even after he crossed that final physical boundary with me, I still doubted myself. Did he really mean that? Did I deserve it? But I knew that it would just get worse and escalate.And his behavior after-the-fact confirmed for me that he knew that what he did was WRONG (and very intentional). Most importantly, having my kid help me catch my breath after he did that tore my fucking heart out. How dare he put her in that position? Watching her dad harm her mom to the point where I'm disoriented and she's straightening MY hair in spite of my best attempts to recover my composure. And then him acting as if nothing happened.

So now I'm knee-deep in gathering documentation for my attny and doing a deep forensic dive into our finances (and discovering a mtn of credit card debt that I had no idea existed.) Another tip...run a credit check on your partner yearly to see if they have any hidden debt. Sometimes, those things can get lost in the account activity and if you don't know that those accounts even exist, things can get hard to track.

salthoney · 2021-08-22T05:16:54+00:00

As a recovering NPD, the men I've attracted in the past are also scarily similar to the list he's written. Anxiety, introverted, self doubt, indecisive, self loathing/pity, highly sensitive to criticism, thinks everyone is out to get them, solipsistic, non confrontational, lack of boundaries, neurotic, melancholic, living in their heads, super critical of themselves and others, daydreaming a lot. I also subconsciously used the same tactics OP has used (on both women and men) to manipulate them which I deeply regret. I want to become a better person and attract better men/women who are more secure in themselves. This has been super eye opening!

For women who suffer from these 'supply' traits I listed, please for the love of God seek therapy and NEVER make it obvious you have those traits. Fake it till you make it because narcs can sense your type from a mile away and you will keep attracting them. I'm dead serious. Every of my former female friends who self identified as "empaths" had these traits and kept attracting these men and women without even realizing why. I hate to victim-blame but if all of your exes have been narcissists, I think you should definitely consider looking at your own shoes and work on self-improvement, anxiety management, and healing to become the secure version of yourself.

Pavlovian conditioning also explains why so many people with the traits I listed above keep attracting Cluster B types. It's more to it than just 'bad luck' and coincidence.

Zredbird13 · 2021-08-22T13:08:33+00:00

Oof as someone with ADHD that list of traits describes me to a T fuckkk 🥴

Well that explains why I ended up in a relationship with a narc and a friendship with a narc oops

But how the hell do I work on these issues if they’re caused by my ADHD???? Can anyone help??

NIRC1997 · 2021-08-22T02:05:08+00:00

Appreciate this. Explains why I got targeted by a narc after a bad break up. Him outlining the points gives a good guide in self improvement. Thank you.

tcantre9 · 2021-08-22T03:48:23+00:00

Oof. Oof. Oof. Oof. Those narc supply traits all sound like me before therapy (and a bit now, it's an ongoing process) and the narc talking sounds so much like the guy I was emotionally manipulated by. I'm about to be put back in a situation where I'll see him regularly (we're classmates) and I'm dreading it. We even met at a party (in 2019) where I was trying to both be social and hide at the same time. And he'd comment on how he'd never seen so many people be as casually macabre as in our cohort.

I hate to think of the ways I made it easier for him to manipulate me. Y'all stay safe out there

Dare94 · 2021-08-22T11:06:27+00:00

Oh wow. Thanks for this. Cut off my lvm ex and it’s chilling to recognise all these symptoms.

shutup201 · 2021-08-22T18:57:51+00:00

I learned all of this the hard way (targeted by narcs at work). Honestly, I wish they taught these things in school or something. After you're a victim you learn but it's too late then. The bad shit has happened.

Everything that FDS teaches basically protects you from dating narcs, and the concepts can and should be used for all kinds of relationships and interactions, not just romantic ones.

I initially found FDS looking for support for narcissist abuse so this is a good post imo. It's all about protecting yourself because they do target and prey on people with vulnerabilities that are easy to exploit. I'd rather everyone avoid the trauma.

curiousandbashful · 2021-08-22T05:09:52+00:00

This is sex & love addiction in a nutshell

Technusgirl · 2021-08-22T02:41:14+00:00

I don't have most of those things on that list besides being an introvert and having anxiety and yet I constantly end up with narcs. I am, however, highly emphatic.

Ironsculpture · 2021-08-22T04:13:17+00:00

I don't know about narcissism, but you can tell he's a delusional and manipulative moron if you just read the last screenshot. It's laughable.

Emergency-Feed8216 · 2021-08-22T08:59:23+00:00

OMG, fuck this asshole for equivicating narcissism to developmental neurological disorders through that "neurotypical" reference. There's absolutely zero evidence of brain structural or biochemical differences in people with personality disorders and tons of evidence that it's learned behavior, acquired via internalized ab.use patterns and that consequences are the only "cure."

Furthermore, mentally disabled people would never have the presence of mind to triangulate and manipulate others to their own devious agendas. Narcissism, borderline and antisocial personality disorders are more akin to criminal disorders than mental illness in that sense.

Considering that three or more disabled individuals-- mostly children-- are ki.lled in schools and institutions every week due to brutal disciplinary measures, it endangers this population further to falsely associate them with criminality and manipulativeness. But it's just like narcissists to try to grub pity by hijacking disabled status. It's not much different (though vastly more destructive) than stealing a disability parking permit.

GlitteringContact8 · 2021-08-22T20:29:25+00:00

Thank you so much. This really helps explain how my ex manipulated me. First relationship, no standards regarding behaviour from men, anxious and shy, introvert and really impulsive and young, plus in a recent depressive phase when we got together. And this analysis. Never thought about the introvert part. it all fits.

ChickaDeeD33 · 2021-08-22T22:20:31+00:00

Wow, what a read. Thank you OP. And thank you to all those sharing even more from personal experience in the comments.

I can fairly say this was almost exactly my experience with my NVX to the letter. It's almost retraumatizing to see it labeled as being a "supply" but I can really understand why. I know that I probably still send off a lot of these signals, but life lessons learned and lots of therapy my whole self is getting ever stronger and I know where my boundaries are. Goodness help the man who tries to cross them again. 💪

secularwitch · 2021-08-22T13:04:37+00:00

This is truely eye opening. This aspect is actually VERY important when it comes to avoid abusive relationships, but we cannot really talk about the role of the victim because 1) scrotes hang on to the fact that victim had some enabling traits and use this as a weapon to shame victims "she should've chosen a better man". It's hard to talk about this and even bring this up in a mixed gender environment because of scrotes changing the focus of the subject, becoming the victim themselves, white washing the perpetrator and blame the woman, always. (I am very thankful we have a woman only no bullshit place) and 2) there is a possibility to further destroy the already smashed self-image of the victims. So it is a very sensitive subject to talk about but FDS is a safe place for women so please do take these comments as a motivation to better yourself, rather than beating yourself up for having ""enabling"" traits.

I'd like to add one more thing to his testimony. This will be a very hard to swallow pill but I'll say it: 99.99% of the time you have a benefit from staying in that position with a bad man. Again, I have 0 intention to victim blame as a woman who had her fair share of abusive narc men. Rather, I am proposing this argument to make a point: to make you realise your self destructive inner workings.

Alfred Adler, one of the founding fathers of psychology, argues that we do what we do and we feel what we feel not because of previous things (causality), but because we have a benefit goal in our minds to reach by doing the things and feeling the things. If you feel anxious, it's because you have a goal of changing the situation. If you feel ashamed, your goal is to avoid. This wildly different perspective of his actually is a focal point for cognitive-behavioral methods which focuses on the present and future plans and the freedom of choice in the moment, rather than sequential events in the past that lead up to your present state thereby defining your future like a curse.

So, what's your beneficial goal from staying with an abusive men? Really, what is it? Go dark and deeper within you. Find that goal and change it to a new meaningful one. Your life can and will change in an instant if you dare to look at your darkest goals.

For example, if you are married to a lvm, your inner goal/benefit is that you are married. Marriage is an important status in the societly although we wish it wasn't. You have companion. Your children have a father. Etc. etc. So you have dark reasons to be with that narc husband.

That absolute shitty date you had? Red flags were crystal clear but you refused to face them because you wanted a soul to spend an evening with.

Go find your dark motives and change them with better ones.

Elderberrymist · 2021-08-22T08:39:35+00:00

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IWannaBeAnArchitect · 2021-08-22T17:53:25+00:00

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Noemie_Mathilde · 2021-08-22T12:19:56+00:00

I mean I'm taking it all with a grain of salt but an interesting read nonetheless

Aksentia_Ivanovitcha · 2021-08-22T05:53:32+00:00

The guy that wrote this is amazing and i wish him all the best. This is the kind of text i really needed to read because it describes basically everything that happened in my relationship with my ex. His final note to other narcisists - is the sort of complaints my ex had for me since day one and i had no idea what to do with them, it just made me feel like shit and it took forever to leave him.

_mooness · 2021-08-22T16:17:12+00:00

I still don’t believe this person is an actual narc. Have they done their research? Yes, definitely. But a real narc wouldn’t bother helping their supply become stronger. The term “ex-narc” is a joke to me, these people don’t stop being leeches. They suck up everything that you have to give, then go get it from somewhere else.

IDontAgreeSorry · 2021-08-22T11:33:45+00:00

I just read the entire thing. Wtf. Limerence shlimerence. Go walk your dog bro. Who gives a shit about your word salads.. maybe your mama and your papa but not me. Get some help. Or don’t.

Either way, women and girls, beware of shaytans like this.

her-vagesty · 2021-08-22T08:11:21+00:00

I did an npd test yesterday, and scored quite high, it says I'm at high risk of having npd. I asked some friends to also do it and they scored quite low. I asked my mum and was certain she would score high, nope she's low too 😂 I did a few other tests and also scored high on those (note: these tests are all online ones). So I dunno what to think, I guess I'm a narcissist 🤷🏻‍♀️ but my friends reassured me that they'd never suspect it and I don't act like one.

PokePrincess95 · 2021-08-23T02:01:21+00:00

This post is scary, and I have all the warning traits, and I was in a 4 year relationship with a narcissist. But man I’m proud of this person for getting actual help. NPD is a hard one to admit you need professional help

Title	Look out for these traits in yourself, acc. a narc in therapy
Author	Love_Artemis
Upvotes	946
Comments	100
Date	August 22, 2021 1:23 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/p93eo1/look_out_for_these_traits_in_yourself_acc_a_narc/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/look-out-for-these-traits-in-yourself-acc-a-narc.1059394 https://theredarchive.com/post/1059394

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