FWB Relationships: The Gatekeeping of Sex by Women vs. The Gatekeeping of Relationships by Men

WilliamWyattD · 2021-11-02T21:17:15+00:00

I disagree. Men are not really the gatekeepers of relationships the way that women are of sex. High Value men are, but not most men.

I'd say that when women reach their settling phase in their 30s, then it's kinda a mixed bag between them and the lesser tier guys they go for in terms of who is the one preventing commitment. If the woman has baby rabies, then the guy probably is the one gatekeeping commitment. But still, the dynamic is different than the way women gatekeep sex.

webernicke · 2021-11-02T22:57:58+00:00

I think we can agree that women are generally the gatekeepers of sex, while men are generally the gatekeepers of relationships.

No we can't. Most men don't gatekeep shit.

lulll · 2021-11-02T22:47:22+00:00

men dont gatekeep jack shit i dont know where this idea comes from

MasterTeacher123 · 2021-11-03T11:49:52+00:00

IMO actual FWB are very rare, the vast majority of the time it’s just two people who are smashing. Basically a Bootycall. There’s no “friendship” there lol, which is fine but it is what it is

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2021-11-03T01:35:46+00:00

I think we can agree that women are generally the gatekeepers of sex, while men are generally the gatekeepers of relationships.

I would have to say women hold both gates (at least for average or less guys)

Have you found yourself/know about a situation like the one I described? Do you think it's common?

I find it easier to get into a fwb easier than a relationship. I am a fairly emotional introverted man so I would much rather be in a relationship than fwb. I find that the mid 20s highly educated women don't want to deal with relationship and want to do other things. I think a huge reason is that it doesn't lock them down so they can have their cake and eat it too*. I also find that most guys are generally okay with it as a hot friend that they can have hot sex with is better than nothing.

How could it be changed to make it more balanced, as opposed to a woman showing all of her cards and a man showing none?

Education is directly related to women having children and women having children is directly related to women wanting relationships. (Actually studies have been done on this, and why not educating women is how a male population can assert control over women )

Why do (some/a lot?) young men adopt this strategy, as opposed to the more standard casual dating to relationship path?

Dating as a guy is a ton of work and a huge amount of effort for little to no reward. Especially at younger ages when guys are more horny, being a fwb sounds like getting most of the rewards with non of the effort.

ashpr0ulx · 2021-11-02T21:26:42+00:00

i have never moved from a fwb into a relationship. i specifically do not have fwb with people i could see myself having a relationship with in an effort to keep things tidy, emotions-wise.

it’s a mistake to enter a fwb situation as an attempt to eventually get into a relationship. it’s not unfair, it’s just dumb. if you want a relationship, say so.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2021-11-03T02:19:58+00:00

Regardless of what I think here is a quote from a talk.

"Women need love to have sex, men need sex to fall in love."

CimZim · 2021-11-02T21:25:27+00:00

Okay, so as probably 80% of people here know, I'm in a 12 year long FWB. No, I definitely know it's not common to be in one for so long. As I understand it they typically last 2 years or less.

Men want FWB because it's a very easy, laid back, friendly, sexual relationship. You have a friend who is fun to hang out with, doesn't ask you for money or resources, and enjoys fucking you. Why wouldn't the majority of men and some women want that?

I have no idea what you mean by the woman "showing all her cards". You mean having sex? I'm not sure you realize this but...women want sex too. I'm not giving anything up, I'm not losing in this arrangement, I'm not getting the worse end of the deal.

I am getting 100% exactly what I want. Which is a man, who enjoys being my friend, and also enjoys breaking my bed in half a few times a month.

It seems kind of unfair that women are expected to "give up guarding their gate", so to speak, in the hopes that their male partner may end up doing the same in a few weeks/months time.

No. No no no nope. Cease and desist. If you are going into a FWB relationship actively hoping it will be one of those one in million chances you'll get hitched, you're setting yourself up for failure. If you want a friend to hang out with, do friend stuff with, and fuck...FWB. If you want marriage please for the love of Dog, go seek a man who wants that.

Kay_Lore · 2021-11-02T22:28:11+00:00

Most modern women aren’t gatekeeping sex anymore. This is actually a problem because modern men are gatekeeping commitment because of it.

wtknight · 2021-11-02T23:49:59+00:00

How could it be changed to make it more balanced, as opposed to a woman showing all of her cards and a man showing none?

If a woman wants to come as close as possible to guaranteeing a relationship with a man, then she needs to wait to have sex when she feels like she is in love with the guy, and wait for him to demonstrate his love for her, as well. If the man doesn't want to wait for her, then he's probably not really going to ever be in love with her, anyway.

The biggest problem nowadays is that people think "sexual compatibility" is so important, though. Even women don't want to wait for sex because it's important to them, too. But the price for them thinking that it is so important is that she risks being pumped and dumped, ghosted, or being a plate for a guy who likely is spinning other ones.

klauskinki · 2021-11-02T22:36:49+00:00

Sadly today it seems like this is the default option for young people. I think on the long run it makes things worse for all of us and this is one the reasons why young people are so dissociated, broken, cynic and most of all afraid of intimacy. Showing a deep interest in someone you're dating is seen as lame or even creepy (given that fact you're Italian you would understand what I mean with "un accollo"). So you end up with people afraid to admit even to themselves that they like someone with whom they've a sexual relationship! Which is so so fucked up, if you think about it for a second. It's also kinda gross. You see these girls leaving their friends late at night in order to go to their guys' houses only to fuck with these lazy mofos which can't be bothered to at least go pick up them. In this mess women of course are the ones that have more to lose. The guys in a way have won the lottery because they basically don't have to do anything and still manage to nut into someone. They're living the dream ahah! Obviously this fact made really difficult for the girls to understand if they're into them because the bar is so low for many men when we speak about sex that they can fuck these girls without being into them like at all. This basically means that they're only used. This then generates legions of damaged women which then are sometimes stuck in this kind of dynamics and that even try to reenact them while being the dominant part. Obviously some guys can suffer too about this whole scenario but then they tend to being less able to partake in the whole scene

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-11-02T21:11:48+00:00

I've never done the FWB thing. From my perspective, it doesn't make much sense to have an ongoing thing with someone that's just sex. I'd rather stick with new encounters than waste time with a dead end.

vial_of_music · 2021-11-02T22:33:01+00:00

I started my currently relationship as a FWB but i always could tell he was way more into me in the beginning when i specifically stated i was not looking for a relationship. Eventually we just seeing each other like every night for sex and then one weekend instead of going home in the morning i stayed and we hung out all sunday. This happened a few more times before we just started to hang out in the day and do more “couple” type things. After like 4-5 months of this, we became exclusive and have been in a relationship ever since. I think it was really great for me to just go with the flow and not have any expectations- i enjoyed sex with him and slowly started enjoying brunch and getting to know him after being so close already was just so much fun. I really wouldn’t have made it any other way. I will say i was really lucky.

I have had previous FWBs before and I never felt like i was gatekeeping anything. I was horny and picked people I would just have a good feeling with and they were always good at sex. But i never wanted anything more with them.

Practically every single relationship I know of started as a hookup. I do not know a single person in a relationship currently where they didn’t sleep together before a title.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2021-11-02T23:08:35+00:00

I don't think this is generally the case.

Ive only ever seen one girl go from Fwb to relationship. And she's definately the most sexual of all my friends.

You do not have to give up all your "cards" so to speak. All you have to do is not have sex if you don't want to. Yes lots of men are like " sex by third date or I'm gone" and that's fine. That's on you to either leave or do it. No fuss no muss.

Personally never had that issue as all my relationships came out of an existing social circle so I had a chance to hangout with the guy and develop a connection before we even started officially dating. The end result for me is that i liked having sex early on since I was already comfortable with them.

I think this is why I always had issues with OLD. I prefer having lots of casual meetings in person and most people on tinder you have to talk to online for ages (which I'm terrible at), then you meet, and you meet a total of 3x before getting naked. So for me meeting through social circles, getting a feel of things, having the security of if you're a known fuckboi most likely one of my friends would have tipped me off etc work better.

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2021-11-03T03:37:50+00:00

Think some men do this because they need and crave that emotional attachment for a long-term relationship. Being friends then furthering things , they already have a bond . Yes sex is important but it is not the primary glue that keeps a LTR intact . You gotta have conversations with this person , raise childern , solve problems etc . It makes good logical sense.

lybid8 · 2021-11-02T23:00:19+00:00

Your first premise that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationships is wrong/outdated/self-imposed, because really we (women) are the gatekeepers of both. Men enjoy FWB situations because they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Men will continue asking for and normalizing FWB situations because it plays in their favour. RE "how could it be changed to make it more balanced":
- wait a minimum of 3 months before having sex with any of the men you are seeing;
- don't have sex before commitment has been established and definitely feel free to be seeing multiple men before commitment has been established;
- sexual chemistry can be tested by making out if you are worried about that;
- don't date men who are mentally or financially unstable, or men who haven't shown to be "keepers" through kindness, generosity, helpfulness etc;
- don't date men who are not ok with waiting.
it's really quite simple.

Prize-Thought-4205 · 2021-11-02T21:50:29+00:00

Holy ****, I have the exact same experience... in fact every single healthy longer term relationship I've ever seen between men & women seems to have began as a fwb, or fuck buddy situation.

NockerJoe · 2021-11-02T21:52:56+00:00

Nobody is forcing you to accept those terms. You could have just not had anything to do with them or asked for a formal relationship first.

Men do it because casual dating without sex mostly boils down to them pauing for things near unilaterally and being expected to be happy with that. That obviously doesn't work for them. You want some indication that they're interested besides sex. The normal path gives them no indication you're interested at all.

geometersbane · 2021-11-02T22:24:31+00:00

Sexual attraction is the foundation for all relationships and there is no workaround for that. By getting into a FWB situation, you've already completed half of the race. The rest sort of just works itself out.

chalkandapples · 2021-11-02T22:23:26+00:00

Have you found yourself/know about a situation like the one I described? Do you think it's common?

No, and I don't think it's common in my social circle. Sex is usually something that's done between GF/BF's, I didn't know FWB was a thing.

How could it be changed to make it more balanced, as opposed to a woman showing all of her cards and a man showing none?

Don't agree to a FWB arrangement or casual sex. You said it yourself: a FWB situation is one where one or both people have specifically agreed not to get romantically involved and it includes only sex. If you wanted a relationship, you have fundamentally agreed to something that you didn't actually want. And although I understand why some people would do that because of desperation and blind hope, you still agreed to A while expecting B. I would give the same criticism to a guy that keeps doing things for a girl expecting her to reciprocate feelings, when the girl told him she doesn't want a romantic relationship with him. Ideally, a guy that's emotionally intelligent and is a good person may recognize that the girl that agreed to a FWB actually wants more and stop it before she invests more and hurts herself, it's also expected that there will be people that exploit that situation.

Bandit174 · 2021-11-02T22:40:00+00:00

Why do (some/a lot?) young men adopt this strategy, as opposed to the more standard casual dating to relationship path?

Because for the guys who are attractive enough to consistently get that arangement it is more beneficial and flattering to the ego.

Intrepid_Place5390 · 2021-11-02T23:57:52+00:00

Outside of a select tier of men, women gatekeep sex and relationships, or more specifically, women are by large the gatekeepers of relationships seeing as sexual encounters also being a relationship.

IOportA · 2021-11-03T18:36:36+00:00

It doesn't matter if men aren't the gatekeepers of relationships to the same degree that women are gatekeepers of sex.

What matters is that they are indeed the gatekeepers of relationships, and every women who is fuckzoned proves it.

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-11-04T22:10:19+00:00

It seems kind of unfair that women are expected to "give up guarding their gate", so to speak, in the hopes that their male partner may end up doing the same in a few weeks/months time.

Agreed. This is something I do not like about modern relationships. Women are expected to have sex while waiting for the possibility of a relationship, even if they do not actually want to have sex outside of a relationship. One could say “well why should men have to ‘give up guarding their gate’ by committing first?” And the answer is because if two people are entering a romantic relationship, it’s understood that sex will almost certainly be part of that. There is no such assurance that if a woman has sex with a man, he will commit to her. A woman can rack up a lot of partners that way, and then men have the audacity to complain about that when they expect sex in the first few dates. It’s truly “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” in our dating culture.

Have you found yourself/know about a situation like the one I described? Do you think it's common?

Yes, and yes. Very common.

How could it be changed to make it more balanced, as opposed to a woman showing all of her cards and a man showing none?

Women need to stop having sex before they’re comfortable, and men shouldn’t pressure. It doesn’t make sense for most people to wait till marriage anymore, but it should be perfectly acceptable to want to wait till you are exclusive.

Why do (some/a lot?) young men adopt this strategy, as opposed to the more standard casual dating to relationship path?

Well that’s kind of obvious. They can have sex with multiple women and then decide if they want to commit to any of them or not, play games, and drag out the length of time they string along each woman. With the casual dating to relationship path, it’s just that, a more direct path, and you have to commit at some point or end it.

Nihi1986 · 2021-11-02T22:42:24+00:00

Are you suggesting women with feelings for a guy who doesn't commit should keep fucking him in the hopes he changes his mind? That's actually possible and you already know some of those couples...I'm not gonna say 'bet they are unhappy' or anything like that...but if a woman wants a man who truly likes her and will be willing to put up with all the issues of a relationship with a modern woman, she doesn't need to provide much (or any) sex in the short term.

If you want the guy to work hard, provide, adapt to your lifestyle, compete with your friends's boyfriends and your exes (you goddam know well he has to compete with them to prove he's good enough for you),marry you and last forever or at least enough to call it serious relationship... You better chose a guy who likes you so much he still sticks around despite not getting much sex (or any sex as long as you make him understand you are not friendzoning him or playing games), chose someone who can see you as his best friend and someone he really likes spending time with.

Everything else is honestly a gamble and will most likely fail at some point or another...

JacobMoogberg69 · 2021-11-02T21:11:00+00:00

I do not agree with your opening premise at all or most of what you said for that reason. You are not fucking giving anything up. You were conditioned to exchange access to your vagina for dinners, drinks, rides in nice cars, getting you into expensive clubs and parties and much more. We have a nice 5 letter word for this type of woman starting with a "W".

Instead, why not learn to enjoy sex and orgasms without any expectations that you will earn anything from sex. If you were open and accepting perhaps men wouldn't feel the need to "play you" and act cool and aloof and they would actually connect wjth someone who is not out to get something out of them.

Ok_Room1213 · 2021-11-02T21:32:41+00:00

There's a massive amount of entitlement from women who think just because they have sex with a guy then he should basically agree to every idea of the relationship she has in her head. Like she can break it off if she doesn't like him but if she puts out and he doesn't instantly commit to a relationship, buy her a ring, get married, do everything she wants, then he's a POS.

Your pussy ain't that special babe

Neptune-Jr · 2021-11-03T06:49:52+00:00

I think women are the gatekeepers of both.

Lateralanouncer · 2021-11-02T22:10:00+00:00

I will ad. Woman are the catch and men are the prize . A man games catches a woman (assuming she is not promiscuous and given herself away to a looser). It is then up to the woman to win the prize commitment.

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mackenzie013_02 · 2021-11-02T21:42:34+00:00

I’ve had a solid FWB for a few years and it was great.

We’re great friends and had a lot of sexual chemistry, but I think the reason it was successful was that both of us knew this is exactly what it is and it will never be anything more (nor we wanted it or needed it to be).

If you’re going into FWB wanting it to become something more, that’s a recipe for a disaster!

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2021-11-02T23:10:57+00:00

Why do (some/a lot?) young men adopt this strategy, as opposed to the more standard casual dating to relationship path?

Why would I?

neetykeeno · 2021-11-02T23:44:37+00:00

The only FWB relationship I have been in, I was the one saying no to making it more serious. I took a year before I would put up with being referred to as his girlfriend. I took about five years longer than he did to fully commit.

There is nothing inherently antiwoman about FWB arrangements. The only aspect of the dynamic in which a woman is at a disadvantage is in having a shorter reproductive timeframe. So long as a woman knows where her interests are on that and is willing to terminate the relationship if it had become counter to her interests, then FWB can very much favour women.

I mean seriously...men are needy creatures and not being committed to one while still getting reliable safe sexual pleasure that does not involve the hassle of going looking regularly for a new sexual partner is just perfect for some phases of life such as college. Do you give a shit if he fails his math subject? Lol, no. He can be there in five minutes to have sex or he can study while wondering if you are fucking another guy. If it was a BF/GF thing you would probably end up doing his damn grocery shopping then cooking Bolognese while he studies, and you not getting any dick...then when you both graduate have to face the fact he wants to go to a different part of the country to work and well fuck that's a decision on whether to throw a good career away after having thrown away all that time and money cosseting him.

FWB arrangements are great for people with good boundary setting abilities. And around sex? That's usually women.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-11-03T00:55:40+00:00

It seems kind of unfair that women are expected to "give up guarding their gate", so to speak, in the hopes that their male partner may end up doing the same in a few weeks/months time.

I don't see feminists up in arms about it, I don't see them trying to legitimize "FWB" relationships either, and it's because women themselves want secrecy regarding sex at the start of a relationship.

As the relationship legitimizes, women lose interest in sex, but men don't.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-11-03T11:20:48+00:00

Women gatekeep sex AND relationships. The inability to get a relationship in addition to sex is mostly due to shit vetting tactics and coping/backwards rationalization.

Nobody questions the man’s ineptitude if he can get dates but not sex… hell, they’re shamed for that

Intrepid_Place5390 · 2021-11-03T13:37:12+00:00

(It seems kind of unfair that women are expected to "give up guarding
their gate", so to speak, in the hopes that their male partner may end
up doing the same in a few weeks/months time).

That is not what FWB is about so you are starting off wrong from the start.

You are approaching it that, I will be in a FWB situation with this guy that I really want in a LTR. You are going to be in a bad situation there and putting your FWB in one also with unrealistic or hidden objectives.

00_BergEmergence · 2021-11-03T15:42:30+00:00

I think we can agree that women are generally the gatekeepers of sex, while men are generally the gatekeepers of relationships.

Disagree, women gatekeep both. The average guy does not have many options and will start a relationship with most women who choses him. However high value men 100% gate keep relationships

Teflon08191 · 2021-11-03T19:49:52+00:00

How could it be changed to make it more balanced, as opposed to a woman showing all of her cards and a man showing none?

By learning how to date down. Won't happen, I know. But that's the only way to balance the equation.

When women all flock to the same small number of men, they're giving those men all of the power. All they can do is show their hand and hope he decides to do the same. He probably won't though, because again, he's got all the power.

midwesternMD · 2021-11-03T22:00:17+00:00

I think you should clarify the FWB vs casual dating. Because to a lot of men, myself included, casual dating is 90% of what you describe as a FWB. The only difference is that we do go on dates and do stuff together. Hell, I go on man dates with my buddies. Why can’t I go on a date with a FWB?

That said, I am casually dating a woman now. She has not indicated to me that she wants a serious relationship. If she secretly does, well, that’ll be the end of our casual dating/FWB thing. I think what we’re doing is fairly common. Some folks keep things casual, others decide they both want to seriously date and do, still others have mismatched desires and break up.

I don’t think it can be balanced. Even then, I think the balance lays in favor of women as it stands. No relationship is getting off the ground without matching, a conversation, and sex. Those three things are fully within womens control in virtually all online dating platforms.

Some young men adopt a rotating FWB/casual dating thing because they can. They are the men who get the swipes because they’re hot, keep the conversations going because they’re suave, and get repeat casual sex because they’re decent at it. For those men, there’s no need to start a relationship unless they want one. And frankly, I would expect very few young men who can easily sleep with a handful of attractive young women will choose to pursue only one. At least not until they tire of sleeping around.

For the rest of the male population, they take what they can get.

Throwaway18077 · 2021-11-04T17:05:19+00:00

Idk where these old tropes really come from but this is so different than my personal experience which I suppose is a terrible thing to base my perspective on. As a 24 year old woman I’ve found that I am typically irritated with how most guys I have sex with want a relationship and are emotional and try to be over personal with me when all I really wanted was sex and for them to get the fuck out of my life. I’ve started just blocking guys numbers after sex so I don’t have to deal with their “let’s go on a date” bullshit.

spinsterchachkies · 2021-11-05T05:37:41+00:00

Men adopt this strategy so they can trick women into giving them sex then they leave. Don’t do this. Ever. If he doesn’t give you commitment he doesn’t care about you, so why sleep with him? It makes no sense. If he is out to get easy casual sex let him go find that. Don’t get played for a fool

BrodieDharma · 2021-11-02T21:33:40+00:00

I definitely agree. FWB as a precursor to a relationship is a better indicator that a woman is feminine and submissive with a man, as she is giving access to herself sexually without requiring anything.

That takes either patience or intrinsic reward.

I believe a big issue in relationships is this idea of equality and both people being equally in control when this is often not the case.

Starting with multiple dates or a relationship as a prerequisite for sex that a man acquiesces to is submissive of the man and dominant of the woman. She controls the relationship through access to her sexually.

A man who sets standards about what it takes to be in a relationship is taking the dominant role.

Why do I agree with this more from a male perspective?

Most women, even if somewhat dominant or controlling, still desire a man who is more masculine and more dominant, so unless the transaction is clear, a woman may just lose interest in a man pursuing her or lacks it to begin with, so she may not ever end up being fully sexually attracted or available due to her lack of respect and desire that allowed her to lead the interactions.

A man who is logical can set his standards and reward the behavior he likes to see because a feminine woman is ultimately attractive to a man, so there is some polarity

Title	FWB Relationships: The Gatekeeping of Sex by Women vs. The Gatekeeping of Relationships by Men
Author	penguin-on-bathsalts
Upvotes	10
Comments	195
Date	November 2, 2021 8:42 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/qldq3n/fwb_relationships_the_gatekeeping_of_sex_by_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/fwb-relationships-the-gatekeeping-of-sex-by-women.1080351 https://theredarchive.com/post/1080351

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