is it realistic to expect men to just be confident if they have faced a lifetime of rejection and isolation?

class2occlusion · 2022-06-24T21:49:37+00:00

It's not realistic. Even faking confidence isn't.

The problem is this attitude on incompetent and unattractive people is offensive. There are no hero stories where the character is fat and ugly. There are no champion stories where the winner is an awful bitter failure at everything else. Confidence has to come from at least the plausibility of victory. If an obese man is confident about beating Usain Bolt in a race, that confidence is not attractive. A competence threshold must be present for confidence to be attractive.

personhumanperson1 · 2022-06-24T20:01:22+00:00

It is stupid advice. Personality isn't infinitely malleable. Telling someone to "be confident" when they aren't naturally, is like telling a dumb person to "be smart". If you are naturally deficient in something, you have to develop it over time.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-06-24T19:15:24+00:00

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RinoaRita · 2022-06-24T21:44:12+00:00

I was on a temp duty assignment down south while I was in the military and was out with the guys in my class. The one guy that was with us was a hella nice guy and good looking but horribly shy. We see a table of young ladies across the room and I say to him “that girl right there is staring a hole in you man, go talk to her”. Girl gets up and goes to the bar, he walks over nervous like and strikes up convo with her. He literally disappears until tomorrow morning and shows up in class with a huge smile in his face. It was then that I told him that she wasn’t even staring in his general direction. He was simultaneously flabbergasted and impressed with his new found confidence. Life changing event for him, that was.

ThanosSnapsSlimJims · 2022-06-24T20:12:00+00:00

No, it's not realistic. People need to learn to be comfortable with themselves. Telling a demographic to be confident is hypocritical when you consider that men were told to not react to stimuli around them and internalize their emotions for the benefit of those that need them to react a specific way.

wtknight · 2022-06-24T19:20:20+00:00

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amarghir1234 · 2022-06-24T19:00:41+00:00

Acting confident even if you don't feel it is probably what they mean.

SavageAnalFissure · 2022-06-25T18:10:12+00:00

Love how advice always comes across as a fucking complicated circular flowchart that nearly contradicts itself for an unattractive guy.. when we all know that socially awkward ( but admittedly lovable ) friend who almost stumbles into women successfully because he’s just damn good looking.

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2022-06-24T19:15:57+00:00

Confidence comes from success, and success is attractive. Women don’t care about your rejections, insecurities, traumas etc

Prryapus · 2022-06-24T19:07:28+00:00

you can be confident in yourself without relying on approval from the opposite sex

Glittering_Ad_1415 · 2022-06-25T07:55:10+00:00

As a woman, I never understood the confidence thing. The most confident thing you can do is to ask someone out to me. What else can you do in a romantic sense? And if “confidence” works then every single man who’s ever asked a woman out should have had her as a gf. Clearly there’s more than confidence here. Additionally my boyfriend had no confidence and I asked him out after his initial “shoot your shot” message on dating sites that take minimum amount of courage anyhow. He didn’t cold or even warm approach me. I asked him out, and initiated all intimacy- from kissing to sex. Literally placed the man’s hand on my boob. And I thought all of that was endearing. I thought him being too afraid to was cute. So clearly not being confident could work for the right woman. You just have to be her type first.

ClaraBow01 · 2022-06-24T19:51:45+00:00

The problem is that too many men tie their worth to their romantic/sexual life. There are many things a person can be confident about. Even so, just saying “be confident” isn’t that helpful. Before dating you should generally be fairly secure in yourself.

ObviousRascal · 2022-06-24T19:16:56+00:00

Most guys? No. Success is what creates confidence. Faking it for long enough can also do this but is much more difficult to achieve. If your not having success romantically or sexually then the only common denominator in the event is yourself. If you want that to change you gotta change something. Could be something like your approach. Or how you smell. Just because you smell ok or even nice to yourself doesn't mean others agree.

2022-06-24T19:20:24+00:00

Cofidence is a projecting the value you have of yourself its nearly impossible to fake being confident successfully

JustStatedTheObvious · 2022-06-24T19:13:18+00:00

No it isn’t, it’s just that the alternative is worse. Needy and dependent behavior is repellent and it’s a certain method of killing attraction.

Random-Generosity · 2022-06-24T21:40:01+00:00

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Katatonicsnake · 2022-06-24T19:20:42+00:00

About as realistic as it is to expect a woman to do all the emotional labor it takes to be in a relationship with someone who hasn’t worked on their trauma at all. You can wish all you want, and feel like it’s unfair, but it is what it is. If you’re an adult, it’s your own job to seek those positive, healing experiences and accept what has happened.

Confidence is a journey, and you’re on it for the rest of your life. It grows from many things in one’s life, not just receiving positive attention from the sex you’re attracted to.

HuckleberryThis2012 · 2022-06-24T22:07:43+00:00

Yes it is. The same way it’s reasonable o expect ppl to not steal, rape, or kill even if they’re hungry, horny, or angry. I grew up awkward af and was rejected anytime I tried (which was rare bc awkward) then decided to put myself out there and bombed over and over with few exceptions here and there. Then eventually got more comfortable with rejection and better with confidence.

You’re just not trying and using the excuse that it’s harder for you. Maybe it is. Some guys don’t have to work for it, but the ones that do are still able to have success.

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ruboyuri · 2022-06-24T22:43:39+00:00

Yes. Cringing servility is not attractive

Friedidli · 2022-06-24T19:17:01+00:00

something i find attractive in anyone is their ability to push through difficult situations and the way they react after being knocked down. life sucks and isn’t easy but how you keep moving says a lot about you and how you would act as a potential romantic partner. i doubt many women find the “woe is me, no one likes me” attitude attractive. so even faking it until you make it is a good route to go.

06534956 · 2022-06-24T19:44:49+00:00

Confidence comes before competence. It’s the part of you that gives you the courage to just try to do something, which is different than actually doing it.

Fall down 7 times, get up 8 type of thing.

toasterchild · 2022-06-24T20:10:32+00:00

Confidence can come from anyplace, not just success with women. When people say that you should try to be confident in order to succeed they don't expect it to just happen, they expect that if you want it you will work for it.

brightglowup · 2022-06-24T19:14:20+00:00

Its as realistic as it always has been for dark skinned Black women in America. The same women who get dismissed in every last conversation like this because they are not the majority.

If Black women can find a way, men need to get with the program and quit their perpetual bitching.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2022-06-24T21:51:38+00:00

The confidence comes from your own self worth. If you are successful at your career, or your hobby, or your sport, that confidence you feel from your accomplishments can carry through to your conversations with women. They don't know you've been unsuccessful romantically or ever been rejected. I'm assuming you're not leading with that information, or shouldn't be.

athlete2biz · 2022-06-24T22:00:25+00:00

having a group of close guy friends who are loyal and have your back builds up your confidence greatly, especially if they are extroverted and atleast some of them are chads

also becoming succesful financially and succeeding at your career can build confidence.

same with the gym and eating healthy

this is why theres always self improvement stuff spouted when guys cant get laid

billsull_02842 · 2022-06-24T22:45:29+00:00

confidence is arrogance. its not the meek shall inherit the earth. no wonder women suffer thinking they are a civilizing influence on their treachers. sociopaths are confident they can push your buttons. as i have said here before if Jesus was a woman he would have flirted with judas at the last supper.

2022-06-25T00:38:03+00:00

You get confidence from success and prior experience.

Approach women and go out until you get lucky. Understand that it might take 300-500 attempts. As you meet/hook-up/date with women, which you'll eventually do just by pure chance, you will gain experience and it won't require 500 attempts any more.

500 attempts is an enormous number of approaches and requires going out twice a week and spending the entire night approaching, then after several months you'll probably have some drunk sex and get the ball rolling.

I'm not going to kid you and say it's easy and you should just man up. This is a hard task if you don't have innate looks and charm. But it can be brute forced more or less.

My story, I entered college as a virgin, I joined a bunch of social clubs to make friends, but I had 0 success via friends-of-friends. Not surprising, I went to a fancy prep school where kids drove luxury cars, I was a gangly, average-looking teen who was already thinning by age 18. I went out 4-5 nights a week starting freshmen year. I lost my virginity by late sophomore year and had a good girlfriend (i.e. smart, pretty, good person etc) by senior year.

From OP's user name I guess he is late 20s. I'm not sure where one gets massive experience at that age but you just need crazy volume under your belt and it sucks.

ProseccoIsLife · 2022-06-25T06:06:05+00:00

Confidence doesn't come from external stimuli, but the internal one, the ability to believe in one's value and possibilities. You don't seek external validation if you know your a cool person on your own and people are lucky if you decide to invite them into your life. Besides we all face rejection, ostracization, some of us have experienced sexual assault and still decide to date people of the same gender, as the preparator.

GlowingAsItDazzles · 2022-06-24T22:45:18+00:00

it snot realistic, but who cares--that doesnt change the reality that confidence is a really important if not the most important component of male attractiveness

koolex · 2022-06-24T19:59:33+00:00

Fake it until you make it

Or just wait until a girl falls in love with you randomly every couple of years and have no control over your dating life

ClaireBear1123 · 2022-06-25T02:05:06+00:00

Is it realistic for men to just be confident for no reason at all?

Yes. This is literally what it means to be a man. If you are a man and you aren't doing this, you're doing it wrong.

zabrak200 · 2022-06-25T02:55:54+00:00

I think that the whole discussion here is skewed. Its not so much about being confident. Confidence will let you start talking to a girl. But its DESPERATION. That drives women away. You can be confident and desperate and you’ll never go home with anyone. Your best bet is to be confident and happy with going home alone.

I think this is the biggest issue. Men who define their happiness on having a women. And i have been guilty of this myself. As long as thats how your self worth is viewed not only will you not find a partner. Even if you did you would still be unfulfilled because you cant even meet your own needs. (i experienced both)

I also think their is undue pressure on men to be sexual and find a partner as soon as they are physically capable of it. (My experience, and the experience of my male peers) which makes men have doubts about self worth unnecessarily. especially if they are not keeping up with their peers level of sexual experience.

Sophiatab · 2022-06-26T19:50:29+00:00

Yes, plenty of women also have faced a lifetime of rejection and isolation. If we can cope, so can the Y-chromosome holders.

revente · 2022-06-24T19:56:14+00:00

where is this supposed confidence supposed to come from?

From a conscious decision to act dominant. Which is the main 'true' source of confidence.

2022-06-24T19:52:53+00:00

From my experience, confidence comes from actually succeeding with the opposite sex.

Basing your confidence solely on validation from the opposite sex isn't healthy for anyone, full stop. Yes clearly a lot of people do it and that is what makes them incredibly fragile.

2022-06-24T22:17:51+00:00

Do those men have friends both male and female, a good social life, normal amount of self esteem? all of that usually come with having at least one or two relationships by your mid 20s.

It sounds like this question is more about fixing social anxiety in general, to be confident in both your friendships and romantic relationships.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2022-06-24T23:55:34+00:00

It's because being socially awkward is the most unattractive trait in men. And women refused to view socially awkward men as anything less than "the creepy guy", regardless if how human he actually is they won't see him as human.

Tldr: woman who are confident want a man who is also confident. Women that are not confident want a man who is confident so she doesn't have to actually become confident.

HalfysReddit · 2022-06-25T00:32:30+00:00

Here's the rub: you either rise to the challenge, or you get left behind.

Men are championed for being confident, for being entertaining, for all sorts of things.

You either find your way to emulate these things that people find valuable, or people will not find you valuable.

The cold hard reality is that more men are born than women and more men will die alone than women. That's just how the math pans out.

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-06-25T06:51:17+00:00

First of all, I wonder what a "lifetime of rejection" really means, because quite a lot of people in here seem to be in their 20s and only approaching women through online dating or cold approaches, so they are still very young and using very ineffective methods.

Then, confidence in life is not only limited to sexual experience. A lot of people worldwide are in situations where they're not having sex or romance: because they're too young or too old, because they have given up on it after break-ups or failures, because they're isolated by mental or physical problems, because they've chosen celibacy for any reason. Yet they derive their confidence in themselves from lots of other things they're very capable of doing in their daily lives.

jkj1993 · 2022-06-24T19:50:19+00:00

Nah, it's just that the alternative is annoying as shit. You don't want to be with an insecure woman who needs constant validation and reassurance, either. You might choose to tolerate it but all things being equal you'd prefer you didn't have to.

Actually wanting an unconfident partner is one of the biggest red flags I can imagine.

ETA: if you're downvoting me I assume it's because you want an insecure partner you can easily manipulate and you just don't like to admit your reasons.

sarkington · 2022-06-24T20:12:52+00:00

It’s more like, do you want respect? Do you want pity fuck or no?

wtknight · 2022-06-24T20:21:34+00:00

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wtknight · 2022-06-24T20:25:01+00:00

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FibzUK · 2022-06-24T21:41:08+00:00

2022-06-24T22:21:14+00:00

With the appearance of confidence and an extroverted attitude, you can be accepted socially by attractive people, including women. But will those women fuck you? That's a different matter entirely to which I do not know the answer.

AdChemical190 · 2022-06-24T22:46:52+00:00

As a small breasted woman I totally agree with you and can relate 100% to what you’ve said. It’s easy for people to advise: “Be confident. Confidence is sexy.” It’s easy to be confident and even smug if every guy stares at your big breasts and when you are told everywhere that big breasts are sexy. But how to be confident when you are invisible to men? When men ignore you and women body shame you?

SouthernGrass3 · 2022-06-24T23:31:41+00:00

I think what people are talking about is a type of outcome independence, but it’s not as simple as “just be confident”

ValentPerspective · 2022-06-25T01:09:59+00:00

Does not matter if it'a realistic or not. All that matters is that a lack of self worth/confidence will always impede on your results.

2022-06-25T01:42:02+00:00

Confidence comes from past successes. You can fake confidence, but to do so passingly requires at least some genuine confidence in your abilities to appear confident. So no, I don’t think it’s realistic.

2022-06-25T02:17:35+00:00

From personal experience, faking it doesn't really work if you aren't an extremely attractive fellow. I've tried it before and It ends up backfiring on me one way or another because they see other flaws in me which makes me either a red flag or not boyfriend material.

Developing authentic confidence works better because by the time you have that you've built up your life to a point where women are interested in you and I think that's the key factor.

beefstue · 2022-06-25T04:12:30+00:00

I had to fake it til I made it and I was ugly until my 20s and a virgin so idk....if what men consider an ugly woman can gain confidence,clarity,and comfort being by themselves, I think they can too. People just need to stop basing their value on how much PuSsY or SnEaKy LinKs they get and just work on themselves.

neetykeeno · 2022-06-25T04:13:38+00:00

Don't complain unless you want to be told what we think is appropriate action to take. It is that fucking simple.

dantheman6783 · 2022-06-25T04:32:27+00:00

Nothing blue-pillers say makes sense

2022-06-25T04:35:36+00:00

I actually like this question. And not a circle jerk type question in ppd.

I have an off the cuff answer but im going to ponder more

Search-United · 2022-06-25T04:52:12+00:00

A winner knows he will win because he will try everything to win

HighestTierMaslow · 2022-06-25T05:34:45+00:00

No it is not realistic. I understand completely why anybody who has periodically faced rejection would have low self esteem. I also don't think lacking confidence is good but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad a flaw as people on this forum make it out to be

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-06-25T05:51:23+00:00

Honestly I dont know 🤷 If a individual like a man is socially awkward we probably would never talk , right , cause he's socially awkward .

Ohms2North · 2022-06-25T05:57:40+00:00

A good working definition of confidence is knowing that whether you succeed or fail at a particular task, you’ll be fine

Blueexpression · 2022-06-25T07:25:48+00:00

The only way you can be truly confident is if you make something of yourself. Dont worry about rejection. Be in a position of success. Then you start not to care about what people think of you. Thats how you become confident.

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-06-25T09:37:05+00:00

Ask yourself these three questions:

Why do I really tie my confidence/self esteem to my success or lack there of with women?
(This is the crucial questions): What do I get out of tying my confidence/self esteem to my success or lack there of with women?
Do I really need to tie confidence to my success with women?

lilickybitch · 2022-06-25T13:27:47+00:00

why are you asking if its realistic to have self esteem? "is it realistic for men to just be confident for no reason at all" therapy and confidence will help you with your low self esteem because they will quite literally help you raise your self image and perception of yourself, which in turn should raise your confidence..no? why would dating have to do this, if dating is where you lost the confidence?

forthetinderelllas · 2022-06-25T18:00:51+00:00

The confidence has to come from within my friend. Cultivate love for yourself. Take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror and ACCEPT who you are. You are a badass human with unique interests, hobbies, and passions. Someone out there has admired you before. Whether its an admiration of your skills, personality, looks….you are loved! Look deep inside and realize you are human just like everyone else. Sure, hit the gym hard. Seek therapy. Work on your career, but most importantly, love yourself.

2022-06-27T08:51:58+00:00

no im a 26 male virgin and idk how normfolk expect me to suddenly be so charasmatic confident chad after years of rejection.

its all so tiresome.

IcarusKiki · 2022-06-28T23:58:58+00:00

If you aren't confident in yourself you should build that up first and then focus on women. You can get confidence in other ways.

H8beingmale · 2022-07-01T23:27:36+00:00

ya, sometimes i like to think that women are the only gender that are owed or entitled to dates, a sexual relationship

Peacesquad · 2022-07-04T15:43:45+00:00

Women don’t care. They fuck the winners. Simple

Title	is it realistic to expect men to just be confident if they have faced a lifetime of rejection and isolation?
Author	jkj1993
Upvotes	295
Comments	263
Date	June 24, 2022 6:56 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vjvngd/is_it_realistic_to_expect_men_to_just_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-it-realistic-to-expect-men-to-just-be-confident.1120168 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120168

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