What do you think of Jordan Petersons claim that “marriage is for children”?

John_Oakman · 2022-12-07T07:33:13+00:00

In modern secular liberal western societies, most of the features of a relationship could be acquired without the formalities of a marriage, and marriage itself does not necessarily entitles the participants anything outside of certain legal and economic perks. Social legitimacy is the last major non-legal perk of marriage, and even that's becoming less valuable with the younger generations' disdain towards traditional and mainstream community values.

GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B · 2022-12-07T07:59:28+00:00

I think marriage is a broken concept particularly for men. Your own children are the only reason you might want to do this, in the same way you might jump in front of a train if it saves them. But ultimately, marriage is a contract with next to no benefits to men, which treats women like in the early 20th century, which can be broken at any time for no reason and it will ruin you financially, and the consequences are government enforced because it would incur significant cost on society if it weren't. Have fun paying.

The West desperately needs marriage reform.

OkProfessional9405 · 2022-12-07T06:54:11+00:00

What is the point if there are no kids involved? Kids are a huge financial and personal investment. I'm not a fan of marriage laws, but the all encompassing combing of two people only makes sense for the 20-25 year journey of raising kids together.

With out the kids it's just a really, really bad contract.

daddysgotanew · 2022-12-07T12:09:30+00:00

He’s completely on point. There’s no benefit to it for men otherwise. I’d argue it’s better to not do it period, no matter the circumstances

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-12-07T11:52:28+00:00

"Marriage is for the children" is why society anally rapes men in public through a system called "the family court".

passwordgoeshere · 2022-12-07T08:08:52+00:00

I am a child, and I am married. Let me tell you, it’s not very fun. First of all, my wife and I are not old enough to go to the bar or do anything, really. If Mr. Peterson has this idea, I assume that he is not a child himself

lSilasx · 2022-12-07T12:30:06+00:00

I believe he says that because when you’re married with children and times get tough, it’s more about the kids than it is the relationship: you have to sacrifice your child’s happiness if you want to end the divorce.

He does also say though that you shouldn’t put your kids above your marriage. Nurture your marriage above all else because a happy marriage equals happy kids.

Impossible_You_8555 · 2022-12-07T07:29:28+00:00

I read an article somewhere and specifically one paragraph of it is ingrained in my mind forever. It said that only a father can teach his child about discipline, consequences and how harsh and cruel the world really is. Similarly, only a mother can teach her child to find happiness in this world. I find it to be quite true by looking at reality.

So yes I will say it is true that "marriage is for children" in the sense that the child NEEDS both parents. When you marry and bring a life to this earth, you need to become a little less selfish. I will keep saying this till my final breath, divorce is not an option but only a last resort.

P.S. : Keep one thing in mind that when I say a child needs both of its parents, I mean healthy and mature parents. Oftentimes, one party is abusive, on drugs, infidelity is involved which further creates toxic culture for children to grow in. In these cases divorce should be considered.

IWillKeepYourSecret · 2022-12-07T08:48:17+00:00

I'm very generic when it comes to marriage. That is, I really want to get married. It's an overpriced process so I only want to do it when there's money to spend, but it's a beautiful and sentimental expression of love.

However, I also told my boyfriend that in terms of legality, I don't care for any of it. Only if it were beneficial to both of us would it be worth considering, but otherwise, I'd love to just be married anywhere but on paper.

AstuteBlackMan · 2022-12-07T16:22:03+00:00

Somewhat agree. What’s the point of marriage period honestly if you’re not having kids?

Especially as a man. You really don’t gain much.

HighestTierMaslow · 2022-12-07T18:24:53+00:00

I wouldn't ever listen seriously to anything that comes out of Jordan Petersons mouth.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2022-12-07T10:30:26+00:00

Marriage is for two people who want to build a life together. Weather you have kids or not is just one part of the equation when it comes to building a life together. Sure kids definitely do better inside a marriage but they aren’t the sole reason to get married. If that were the case LGBTQ people wouldn’t fight so hard to have the right to get married and there wouldn’t be such a heavy focus on spouse benefits in marriage such as tax deductions ( not just for having kids but filing jointly), being able to put each other on your employer health insurance plan, pension sharing or being able to make decisions for each other when you’re in the hospital for example. None of those benefits require having children just that you’re married which shows there is value in marriage outside of having children.

MuchMethod7039 · 2022-12-07T08:05:40+00:00

Marriage can also have legal benefits but in general, it's for forming a family. It also represents a legally binding commitment-- basically a lifetime commitment.

KikiYuyu · 2022-12-07T09:16:03+00:00

I think marriage is for people who want to be married and officially be a family. It's beneficial for kids but I don't see why it should be for them only.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-12-07T10:41:14+00:00

Maybe his marriage is for children, and that's fine, but it's not everyone. You can define the purpose of marriage however you like. For me, marriage is for love and lifelong commitment. Putting aside the symbolism, certain financial and citizenship rights would mean it makes sense for me to get married even without having children. If you have children, their needs should come first. It doesn't mean that everything you do has to be about them, but it shouldn't be harming them.

Return_of_Hoppetar · 2022-12-07T13:31:57+00:00

I think it's complete hogwash, but I'm sure he would say smarter things if he was in a conversation with adults over lunch in the university caféteria, as opposed to playing his online persona and focusing narrowly on a particular domain of discourse.

Ask a tax advisor sometime whether marriage is beneficial even without kids, and you might get, depending on the laws of your country, a different response.

Ask an epidemiologist, and you'll get the response that marriage is associated with better late-life health outcomes.

It's just a stupid thing to say, but I get why he's saying it, he has to serve a particular domain of discourse through a medium that isn't very friendly to nuance.

Draco359 · 2022-12-07T13:00:00+00:00

Yes. Red Pill is wrong when they say men are the prize. They aren't.

The family lifestyle is the prize. And the glue that keeps family in it for the long haul are children.

The act of raising children is an act which lasts 18-20 years (minimum per child).

The main reward of the family lifestyle involve having a trustworthy life partner with whom you can share life burdens (this is true for both genders), on top of everything else each member of the couple brings to the table.

Obviously, this has changed immensely due to the attacks on the institutions of family, marriage and childcare as well as against the concepts of masculinity and femininity by the hedonistic advocates of what is today considered the modern society.

literaryhogwartian · 2022-12-07T08:34:23+00:00

No it is not for children. It is for two people wi love each other to build a life together.

I am happily married and we are childfree.

EulenWatcher · 2022-12-07T08:31:53+00:00

It depends on a couple. Some plan to have kids, some don’t, some want to have marriage and all of the perks and others don’t want to involve state into their relationships etc. I don’t think there’s a shoe that fits everyone.

My husband and I got married without having strong plans on having kids, marriage makes perfect sense for us even if we stay childless, as it’s a way to confirm our intentions and to make the state recognize us as a family. Considering your other questions about priorities, as a childless person I think a balance is important. You should do the best for your kids, but it also includes your happiness and interests as well as relationship with your partner.

abaxeron · 2022-12-07T09:46:55+00:00

I'll quote another person that I will not name. "If you're married without having children or ever intending to have them, you are in a gay marriage."

Yes, sometimes a married couple happens to be infertile. For most of recorded history, it was sufficient legal grounds for annulment.

gate18 · 2022-12-07T10:26:40+00:00

Many people I know say this, and none of them have a university education, some (honestly) don't even have high school.

You'd think the sheep would wait to hear him explain himself before clapping.

I think a miserable marriage messes the children a lot more than a divorce with a solid arrangement.

But that goes against traditional values hence it's not something JP would say. He would then start talking about people he knows who have terrible breakups and ignores unhappy married households.

It's easier to stick together ("I hate you but for the kids") than separate and turn the relationship into a friendship because you both have something that glues you together.

Apprehensive_Cut_146 · 2022-12-07T12:27:30+00:00

I disagree.

Complicated_Business · 2022-12-07T12:46:06+00:00

"The problem I had growing up was that my parents were in a committed long term relationship and shared responsibilities in my upbringing." - no one ever

Spacetalks3114 · 2022-12-07T19:44:54+00:00

I would tell Jordan Peterson to please reword things because I was absolutely horrified at that comment at first. lol

In all seriousness, I don't think it's just for the children, it's moreso for stability. It's supposed to be a contract where both are committed for life. And a promise to stay with the partner forever. But it can also be good as there are financial benefits to being married like reduced taxes in specific areas.

Yes you could argue the divorce rate is high, alimony, etc and that is a whole another argument.

However, marriage can be great stability, especially when your partner makes that commitment by saying "I love you more than the risk of divorce." And that is why I don't think it's only for the children.

_demidevil_ · 2022-12-07T09:42:43+00:00

Jordan Peterson is taking advantage of young insecure men and indoctrinating them. Autistic men are particularly vulnerable. I have no time for him whatsoever.

Is marriage for children? Marriage means different things to different people. For some it’s for children, but not all cases. Humans are diverse, our relationships are diverse, we all have our own reasoning.

It sounds like he’s just, yet again, trying give some pseudo intellectual “hot take” while ignoring the nuance of human existence.

IntegrityDJones · 2022-12-07T14:18:07+00:00

I personally don’t see the point in it. What’s in it for women? The chance to be a lifelong slave? Hard pass.

croatian_guy_ · 2022-12-07T07:31:01+00:00

That seems very reasonable.

Upstairs-Rip-604 · 2022-12-07T08:25:46+00:00

I think it’s false. Marriage is for the ultimate love between a husband and wife.

Upstairs-Rip-604 · 2022-12-07T08:36:12+00:00

I don’t really see the point of marriage for non religious people. It depends if they want it. In my opinion kids don’t come massively into the equation. If you work well as a couple/parents you’d work well whether you are married or not. There are obviously some benefits like tax to consider I guess.

My partner and I call eachother husband and wife anyway, despite not being married. Maybe we will marry one day just to have a cool party but we have prioritised other things in life so far. Weddings are expensive.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-12-07T16:01:25+00:00

It’s for people who want to be married, really. No sense in trying to tell people what they should or should not want in this regard. I’d say it’s pretty important if you do want children, and if not, it really up to the couple.

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2022-12-07T07:47:30+00:00

If you're going by Catholic doctrine, it is pretty important in that if you are fertile you are required to be open to life to get married, although infertile couples are still allowed to be married so it's not the sole and/or only purpose of marriage, which is seen as a holy, binding, and sacramental thing also done for the communion and good of the couple.

If you're stepping outside of a faith tradition or in moral relativist terms then marriage can technically be for whatever reason and be defined as whatever you think and have whatever rules or no rules you might have so JP is technically wrong here.

washington_breadstix · 2022-12-07T10:22:16+00:00

I guess I don't know what he means by it. Does it just mean that the legal institution of marriage doesn't make much sense, or isn't very advantageous, if the couple doesn't plan on starting a family? If so, then I can see his point.

Transmigratory · 2022-12-07T11:18:51+00:00

Most people can't stay together for just them, and marriage ending is very costly. So you'd imagine marriage with the notion of having kids would be better. That's if you are looking to see what he meant. The replies have other examples of people who got triggered by anything Jordan Peterson says.

KommandaKoopa · 2022-12-07T11:38:39+00:00

Being married doesn’t equate with being a good parent

carlenvirgo · 2022-12-07T11:56:52+00:00

I think it’s more than just about having kids. It’s supposed to be about letting go of ego and surrendering to another person with the guard taken down.. sure you don’t need the piece of paper to do that but some feel that the paper holds them accountable.

Giving half assed to relationships is not untimely going to bring you happiness. Casual gets old very fast and it’s just a drug to get a quick lustful fix. Untimely having a partner to share life with is far more meaningful and secure. Knowing that there’s someone that’s devoted to you regardless of anything keeps us mentally healthy.

Skipping around from one to another keeps us in chaos and damages the emotions, invoking trauma!

AstronautLoveShack · 2022-12-07T12:14:51+00:00

We did not plan to have kids and still got married. We did it because we love each other but it also allowed me to put him on my insurance, visit him in the hospital during Covid lockdowns, etc.

Caranthir83 · 2022-12-07T12:42:11+00:00

marriage is for childlike adults

NJFlowerchild · 2022-12-07T12:48:40+00:00

I believe that the needs and happiness of a child come before your needs and happiness.

SwaySh0t · 2022-12-07T13:30:33+00:00

Marriage is not only a union of two individuals but those individuals families. What’s the point of two families “coming together” if not for offspring of said union. Historically and religiously only fertile people married which infers that marriage is primarily for family/children. Children benefit the most from marriage, developmentally and socioeconomically. So yes if u want your child to have the best outcomes possible, marriage is needed, cohabitation does not cut it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3091824/

yamb97 · 2022-12-07T13:50:12+00:00

I think marriage was good for kids back when women didn’t have any money or assets of their own, so they had a backup in case something went awry. Now doesn’t matter all too much.

FancyComfortable4678 · 2022-12-07T14:45:37+00:00

Says who? Who determines what the purpose of anything is besides the people doing it? Maybe the purpose of HIS marriage was procreation (sad) but why should he get to put that expectation on anyone else?

2022-12-07T14:46:30+00:00

Agreed. I’m a woman with a genetic disorder I don’t want to pass on. I’ve broken up with several guys because I knew I couldn’t give them what they would want in the future (kids). I’ve since stopped dating and just accepted being alone for the rest of my life, due to this issue. As a woman, I have nothing else to offer in a relationship. Marriage is indeed pointless for me- which is a shame because I love men and just want to find a man to be with for the rest of my life.

jsmooth3363 · 2022-12-07T15:18:16+00:00

My take away is marriage is the ultimate responsibility to your family and it's important to keep it intact above your own desires.

It requires sacrifice and your happiness becomes secondary, but people don't like these words.

nemma88 · 2022-12-07T15:33:00+00:00

Marriage is for any two persons who want to legally join themselves as a unit. This is more enticing when having children, but it's not limited to, nor do children require their parents married.

DisasterPeace7 · 2022-12-07T16:14:25+00:00

I'm glad I read the whole context and not just the title lol, but yes I think the only reason a couple should get married is if they plan on having kids, obviously people can do it for whatever reason they want whether it's religious or social reasons or whatever but unless you're planning on having children and raising them in that family structure I see no reason to get married

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-12-07T17:27:25+00:00

studies show married or divorced co-parents who get along are healthier for children than married co-parents who fight.

as usual hes just making shit up.

KayRay1994 · 2022-12-07T17:54:35+00:00

Marriage as a concept is kinda irrelevant outside of the idea of having kids imo - other than that it becomes fairly arbitrary for the most part and just a romanticized concept - which i guess is fine if that’s what you want, but i don’t see marriage as a concept as necessary for maintaining a long term relationship

Ohmaygahh · 2022-12-07T21:57:51+00:00

Totally agree, it takes a childlike innocence and naiveté to want to bring the state into a romantic relationship.

Willfully entering a lopsided contract is for children.

Podlubnyi · 2022-12-07T22:18:09+00:00

It's not marriage that children need, it's two loving parents, preferably under the same roof.

Other than a few tax or legal perks, there's nothing a married couple have that an unmarried couple do not.

gopher_glitz · 2022-12-07T23:02:38+00:00

How many people would travel if they couldn't post it on social media? How many people would want to get married if they didn't have a wedding?

Marriage is a bad contract.

zerocovid-_- · 2022-12-08T01:44:02+00:00

He’s not wrong.

SteelFox144 · 2022-12-08T03:17:54+00:00

I don't know that he made that claim because I stopped paying attention to him quite a while back, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. No matter who says it, I think it's stupid.

Marriage is really just a series of legal agreements put together in a package deal that's fairly easy for two people who want those legal agreements to get inexpensively and without of money and lawyers. You could say that it's about commitment to a relationship, but it isn't because people get divorced all the time and you can commit to a lifelong relationship with someone without getting married. You could even have a big, fancy party where you celebrate the fact that you're both committing to the relationship without getting married.

The idea that it's about the kids is just dumb. Nothing involving kids changed because their parents are married. If the parents lived together without being married, everything would be exactly the same. Sometimes the best thing for children is for their parents to end their relationship and get divorced. You don't even have to have kids for the only things that are different when you're married to affect you. It's nice when you can have someone you're in a relationship with be considered in emergencies and to be able to have them on your health insurance.

Jordan Peterson is kind of an idiot about a lot of things.

2022-12-08T03:58:18+00:00

Completely agree

Perfect_Promise_943 · 2022-12-08T04:09:00+00:00

As someone who personally believes marriage should not be allowed divorces unless there is evidence of abused, rape, violence things like that, I would agree with his statement t

Peacesquad · 2022-12-08T16:52:44+00:00

There’s no other reason for a man to get married let’s be real

2022-12-14T21:47:14+00:00

Marriage in todays world is unnecessary if you don’t have/plan on having children. The reason marriage has tax breaks and incentives is because traditionally you’d have kids in a marriage and therefore the government helped you out because you were contributing to society and the general human population. If you and someone just want to shack up and have no kids, I see no point. I see its just as “ lets be together forever , lets get a contract for it”, you can be with someone forever and not be married

Title	What do you think of Jordan Petersons claim that “marriage is for children”?
Author	lostacoshermanos
Upvotes	19
Comments	198
Date	December 7, 2022 6:37 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/zeu8rg/what_do_you_think_of_jordan_petersons_claim_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-do-you-think-of-jordan-petersons-claim-that.1142611 https://theredarchive.com/post/1142611

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