Yeah because women don't lie about it at all

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She's 29 years old, I'm 28 years old, similar education rigor, but I would argue I probably have more life experience than she does both in variety of work, personal responsibility, intensity of studies/working hours/etc... And even I know I'm not cut out for legislating others' lives past that of my direct reports' work activities and my immediate family. It'll be 20 years before I'm cut out for that, and I know this because I'm smart enough to recognize what I don't know.

She's better at speaking in public than <95% of the population and that's about all she has at this point in her life. That and some pretty crazy ideas she spins to her almost religious followers who echo throughout her twitter-sphere.

She's never raised kids, owned property, managed budgets other than her own. I could go on. And there's plenty of evidence that she hasn't even managed her personal finances adequately. And she is a 1/535th voting member of our constitutional republic.

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I didn't even say it was common. It's a trait shared by women with specific personalities in certain fields. It's more that the mix of ambition with certain other personality traits makes anyone toxic, but it makes men and women toxic in different ways. To give an idea, I've had a particularly toxic male doctor that became openly hostile when I told him a medication I was on was not only not helping me but was actually causing problems for me. He refused to accept it, take me off the medication, and openly admitted that he didn't care he put me on a higher-than-recommended dose or that when I stopped taking it for my own health I was suffering from withdrawal symptoms from it. All he cared about was the fact that I, in his mind, questioned his expertise when he was getting ready to go into emergency medicine.

On the other hand, I've also had a toxic therapist/psychiatrist that was helping my family and took great pleasure in trying to exaggerate and worsen our individual issues to keep us at each others' throats, giving us bad advice, not actually addressing the issues we had, or anything like that, in order to keep us coming back. It was only when my mom realized the psychiatrist was actively trying to cause my brother to go ballistic in her office with our mom present that we stopped seeing her.

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Pretty sure most of the people in this sub need therapy

Try some empathy and thought, rather than being an asshole.

A real double standard has been identified, one that potentially ruins men's lives. You seem to have taken the original poster's explanation of that double standard as an endorsement of looking at people suggestively. That's you adding meaning where none was.

How about you don’t objectify anyone by looking at them subjectively and you don’t get to choose how people react to you.

If only this was applied evenly, then men would actually know where they stand. The problem is, in the real world we have:

1) Some women giving attractive men the pass for what should be considered innapropriate behaviour.

2) Some women assuming unattractive men are behaving innapropriately because they think they are 'creepy'.

3) Some women make false accusations to get ahead/get revenge/because they're a sociopath.

It's far from all women who do this, a minority in fact, but it's enough to be a danger. There is only one solution to this problem that men have control over themselves, because just acting appropriately (which most men do anyway) isn't enough. Not engaging with women means you don't have to worry about problem number 1) and 2) and 3) will never come up.

If you never interacted with someone, they can't falsely accuse you (or at least it makes it a hell lot less likely). Some men are finding this to be the only option they have left in their circumstances.

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Notice that she's externalized her internal reaction, as women often do.

If she is creeped out, the guy is creepy. The denial of subjectivity of womens perceptions is vital to female supremacy. Because the second you accept its subjective, then you're stuck trying to find out if normal women find this behavior creepy or if its just weird feminists, and a lot of the time it's just the feminists, a fringe minority of women.

The tactic serves to make their social disorder and antipathy to men the mans fault (Externalizing her internal feelings) rather than force them to consider whether it could be prejudice.

"Is it that hard not to be intimidating?"

You say to a black guy, minding his own business.

"Is it that hard not to be creepy?"

Says the feminist freak to a guy making casual conversation. But because the feminist has rape on her brain, she sees it everywhere.

Maybe a sex joke is just a sex joke and most people don't care. The reason you do isn't that the guy is creepy, it's that you're a weirdo who is creeped out by the behavior.

This externalizing of the illness the feminist has and pretending their subjective view is objective reality is a constant phenomena with them. It's why they're so confused when you tell them they hate men. They're unwilling to consider their perception is biased and impacts their behavior.

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And then you have women fearing their male bosses and never speak up if they are treated unfairly because they could be fired.

AOC isn't saying "seriously retarded stuff." She has her bias, just as you have your bias that favors an openly bigoted criminal president.

Remember this and ask yourself why women might find another creepy:

“Before a show, I’ll go backstage and everyone’s getting dressed, and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” he said. “You know, I’m inspecting because I want to make sure that everything is good.”

“You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody okay?’” he continued. “And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that.”

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Don't mentor women,ever.Men don't do that shit.

I've mentored a ton of women in my industry. Obviously just be hesitant, do a full screen before you spend time/effort helping them. Look at their LinkedIn/FB/Twitter - if they're liking super-progressive stuff, anything man-hating or remotely man-shaming, etc., those should be immediate warning signs. I typically take it a step further and just avoid early/mid-20's white girls with a liberal arts degree. It's just mitigating risk.

But, don't pass up on mentorship opportunities. I'm lucky enough to be in a position that many people approach me on LinkedIn, and some of my most rewarding experiences have been mentoring women, typically immigrants on H1-B visas or something similar. They're hungry, motivated, incredibly intelligent, and don't give two shits about 'political corrrectness' or dumb white progressives virtue signaling for them. To see them succeed makes me incredibly happy inside.

Edit: For those asking, this is finance, not IT. Typically people of all races rather than just Indian.

It's fantastic, they all have the best attitude. They're hungry to learn, don't expect anything to be handed to them based on their race/sex, mature, thoughtful, and if they fall short of their goals they blame themselves instead of 'the patriarchy', and use it as a learning experience.

I'll gladly help them any day of the week, get them interviews, introduce them to industry connects... etc.

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The article actually paints a picture that it's men's fault they're uncomfortable mentoring women. It literally ends the article with a sentiment of disregarding the fact that they're uncomfortable. The context is that men are uncomfortable due to being accused of sexual harassment. AOC only reinforces the fact that being "creepy" constitutes sexual harassment. In a day & age when being "creepy" is the equivalent of sexual harassment, men are fucked.

My suggestion is we point this out to women. Make them aware of the "creepy" accusations and their negative results in human relations. We should be empathetic to the plight of feeling uncomfortable in social interactions with certain people. It feels shitty when you're forced to socialize with someone that's socially inept. That doesn't make it okay to label them as a creep for lacking in social skills. Motive is everything, and being shamed for a lack of social skills is unjust. People don't usually mean to be socially awkward. However, calling someone a "creep" is an insult, with ill intent. It's designed to shame someone. Calling someone a creep is a worse crime than being socially awkward.

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I don’t think it’s childish in an environment of heightened tension to want to avoid precarious situations. The fear of rape is nothing new. There was always a certain statistical possibility that a given woman will be raped, and generally speaking, certain situations carried more risk than others. Avoiding those situations and exercising a reasonable degree of caution mitigates the risk.

This #metoo shit is new and it’s hard to get a handle on, because there doesn’t really seem to be any reasonable deliniation between harassment and innocent behavior. Have you seen the video of Morgan Freeman supposedly telling a woman he wanted to be in her vagina? It’s very, very clear to anyone with any semblance of sanity and clear-headedness that that is not what he was saying at all. But that didn’t stop the news from going with it.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think it’s childish in an environment of heightened tension to want to avoid precarious situations.

Then why should women date? I mean, it is a precarious situation. How many men are rapists and how many women file false reports? Neither is the majority of the respective gender.

The fear of rape is nothing new. There was always a certain statistical possibility that a given woman will be raped, and generally speaking, certain situations carried more risk than others. Avoiding those situations and exercising a reasonable degree of caution mitigates the risk.

So going by this logic, women should avoid dating?

This #metoo shit is new and it’s hard to get a handle on, because there doesn’t really seem to be any reasonable deliniation between harassment and innocent behavior. Have you seen the video of Morgan Freeman supposedly telling a woman he wanted to be in her vagina? It’s very, very clear to anyone with any semblance of sanity and clear-headedness that that is not what he was saying at all. But that didn’t stop the news from going with it.

How far are they going with accusations against Freeman? I don't see his career ruined like Harvey Weinstein. Hell they had a bigger go at Aziz Ansari. Tons of women came out in defense of Ansari, and if push comes to shove and no more accusations come up, Freeman will see a lot of defenders. Since we're on #MeToo, Asia Argento, a woman, got bit by it, as did Democrat candidate Andrea Ramsey who was forced to quit over sexual harassment allegations. #MeToo is actually a step forward in terms of attacking sexual harassment in that innocent men are getting a break and women are getting less of a free pass. That's not a hill I want to die on, unless the fight is about more egalitarian reforms.

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Okay, so while I normally agree with you, AOC, you don't seem to understand the problem. Sure - there are plenty of people in high ranking positions who would abuse their female staff like that, but as the hashtag goes, it's Not All Men.

There are a ton of men who quite rightfully fear the power that women have now after MeToo. With all the sentiments of "Believe all women" still lingering from the campaign, any woman, ANY WOMAN who decides that she wants to fuck over her manager or boss, can very easily do so by making up a story and using social media as a lighter fluid.

There are plenty of male executives and even employees who are assholes and abuse their female subordinates and coworkers, but there are also plenty of unscrupulous, immoral women who would have no remorse filing a false rape claim in order to get ahead of the game and get a leg up the corporate ladder.

After all, we're supposed to believe all women, right? If an exec and a female subordinate walk into a room and the subordinate comes out crying "he groped me!" Who's gonna question it? It's his word against hers, right? If you question it, doesn't that make you a rape apologist?

So, yes, even if you aren't guilty and wouldn't do shit like that anyways, it's still plenty rational to be afraid that the woman you decide to tutor decides that she wants you gone and wreck your life and career with one false claim that won't even wear off if she's proven wrong. The stakes are too high to not have no fear at all for that kind of situation.

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But is this because there isn't a risk, or because you've always mitigated that risk?

I'm in the same boat as you in working with a lot of women over the years. But I've always been "aware" of the risks in professional associations with women and have modified my behavior accordingly to mitigate that risk.

There are some women that I work with that I completely trust. This is in part about knowing them and their personalities. But it is also about knowing that others in the organization have seen us work together for years and know the relationships we have. So they know if conversations get risque or if off color jokes are told. So if the woman in question were to level that as an accusation, they'd be laughed at with a "well, yeah, of course Orangelilpumpkin told you a mildly sexual joke".

But there are other women that I won't even stand behind at the copy machine. Because they've either demonstrated their personality to me or I don't know them well enough that I've been able to assess their personality.

There are no men that I've worked with that I would be hesitant to stand behind at the copy machine. The 60% are referring to that.

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It's not fair to assume that most women will lie about harassment because harassment absolutely does happen and people don't lie about it. I see both sides here - on one hand, I can see why men would be cautious. There are overreactive women and women who take kindness as being hit on. But as a woman who has received unsolicited attention from men at inappropriate times, the sense of being creeped out is real.

I think the biggest issue, though, is that some men are unaware of how awkward they come across. For example, an employee at a Japanese restaurant once said to me "do you think our kids would look like that?" while referring to some Asian toddlers running around (I'm Asian). I was a customer. I didn't know the guy. It creeped me out. I ended up working at that restaurant and this guy (a coworker then) asked me if his smell was arousing to me. Wot?

I don't believe that every man who has ever hit on me, let alone worked with me, was a potential rapist or creeper or whatever people think women assume nowadays. If they make a move (especially at a workplace), it's uncomfortable and I think some men lack the social savviness that keeps from making people feel weird. It's okay for men and women to hit on each other - but there's a time and a place. Doing it out of place (like at work) makes them awkward and weird. And likewise, women should have social awareness to recognize when a man is just being nice and when they're making a move.

The only man I've worked with that creeped me out was that super awkward guy at the Japanese restaurant. Every other man has been just fine because I never perceived their intentions to go beyond our professional relationship.

Tldr; Most reasonable men with basic social skills shouldn't be afraid of being accused of sexual harassment. And women should know when someone's being nice and when they're being creepy. It all comes down to social skills.

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Outside of AOC being a idiot this really comes down to a simple question of risk vs reward for most. The risk of a claim against them just outweighs the reward of mentoring a female under them. In many cases they could easily have first or second hand knowledge of a false claim destroying someones joy or career.

The complaints like this are not just against women. I remember reading about people with disabilities complaining about the ADA laws(think one of them had written a bunch of the "for dummies" books). It came down to the ADA being so one sided that many were afraid to hire people that could make an ADA claim if they fired them for cause.

It comes down to the unintended consequences that go with how things have gone. If you give anyone too much power you don't know how others are going to react to try to protect themselves.

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This is a great post from a few years ago:

Imagine that you had telepathic powers, and you could read a woman's mind, to see if she would say "yes" or "no." There would be no punishments issued, because she wouldn't even know that you asked. Would you check to see her interest? I can't speak for you, but for myself, I'd do it in a heartbeat! I'd be constantly scanning most every woman around me, in order to find out, "Are you interested?" (..!) If I were afraid of the rejection itself, my answer should be "no." But it's NOT the rejection I'm afraid of. It's the punishment.

I don't hear anybody really talking about this, but I think that we should be talking about this more loudly.

I think we should be talking about all the ways that men are punished for doing the task that is assigned to men ANYWAYS. I am meaning how men are forced to be the ones to initiate, or else nothing's ever happening for you. What sense does it make to force a person do a job, refuse to tell them how to do it "right," and then dole out powerful punishments for doing it "wrong" ..?

https://d2ec906f9aea-003845.vbulletin.net/forum/avfm-central/relationships-dating/8020-fear-of-rejection-no-fear-of-punishment

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This is one of those issues that is very, very hard to look at objectively.

I remember listening to a radio phone-in where a guy was like "You know how things are these days, you can't even pay a female coworker a compliment!"

Now, I personally have never, ever had a single problem with paying a female coworker a compliment about how she looks and had it backfire on me. Or at least, not in a significant way.

First of all, why are you talking about how your female coworker looks? Secondly, if she doesn't want a compliment from you, yes, maybe that's because you're not hot. So... maybe learn from this and don't talk about how your female coworkers are hot and you want to have sex with them.

I HAVE had the experience of paying a coworker a compliment on her looks and she acted like I said something wrong. I think this is down to the fact that sometimes women are just in a certain kind mood that she is just NOT going to accept a compliment on her clothes!

So, this is a labyrinth that no straight male would ever be able or willing to navigate perfectly. Maybe a gay man would smell something in the air "No, although this woman has a new shirt, she does not want a compliment on it. If you say 'you look nice" she will reply with "Oh, I look nice today, so you are saying that normally I don't look nice? You are saying that normally I don't look accetable. Ok, thank you so much for telling me that!"

As a straight man, it is your role to not get into this minutiae. Leave it up to women (who, if you really scratch beneath the surface will admit they also hate this shit) and gay men who idolize 'divas' to such an extent that even the worst, most man-hating, screeching feminist you have ever met will have a whole bunch of gay friends.

What was I talking about?

Oh yes, my point is that it's really not difficult to deal with female coworkers. Just never, ever talk about how they look, whether they are attractive or not, what clothes they are wearing or anything like that.

Men are stupid; women are crazy.

Some men are so fucking stupid, they think it's a good idea to talk about what their female coworkers tits look like. Some women are so crazy, that they will get angry if their male coworker does/doesn't/somewhere inbetween talks about what her tits look like.

So be smart. Just don't get into it.

[–]Clemicus 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Yeah because women don't lie about it at all
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	3717
Comments	385
Date	June 10, 2019 3:33 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/byz9dm/yeah_because_women_dont_lie_about_it_at_all/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/yeah-because-women-dont-lie-about-it-at-all.1206342 https://theredarchive.com/post/1206342

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