What makes you think the “unlucky” men are average?

FakeNewsFredo · 2023-05-25T01:56:29+00:00

Women's standards rising might have the same effect as the average men's value slipping.

Holden_Frame · 2023-05-25T02:37:05+00:00

How many times does this need to be posted for people to get it?

If you need more evidence, there's plenty. Like this classic thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/iax1vi/question_for_women_how_often_do_you_see_a_man/

purplish_possum · 2023-05-25T02:29:15+00:00

well below the expected average.

Which is well above actual average.

rolanddes1 · 2023-05-25T03:42:59+00:00

This is the reason

masterdebater70 · 2023-05-25T05:21:03+00:00

I make this judgment because I was at a restaurant the other night and I saw so many average looking men enjoying the evening with women on their nights out. They were mostly average everyday men with quite a few great looking women. I see this all the time.

They're auditioning for roles as beta providers. She brought her looks, and he's signalling he can afford to take her to dimly lit places with 1-page menus where the check comes to $300 plus tip. And she's pretending with that forced smile that she can muster an ounce of sexual attraction for a man that looks pathetic next to a guy she's fucked just last week. But the guy from last week ain't buying no $300 dinner for one of the many women he's sleeping with.

It's a gross transactional arrangement that's more seedy and ultimately more sad than a hooker negotiating the price of a BJ in a back alley so she can get her injection drugs for the evening.

Because the hooker won't end up with his kids and his house.

She gets her drugs, he gets his BJ and everybody goes home happy with what they bargained for.

Then again, I'm not into relationships or buying expensive meals, hiring prostitutes OR injecting drugs.

So none of this applies to me.

tired_hillbilly · 2023-05-25T02:00:23+00:00

Do you understand how averages work? How can the number of men below average increase?

Worldly_Piano9526 · 2023-05-25T05:00:55+00:00

I think what’s more likely is a larger proportion of men are slipping below average

This is not mathematically possible unless you fail to account for outliers, as the quality of all men shift; so does the quality of the average man.

What you are really trying to say is that the average man is less desirable than he was in the 1950s, and you're absolutely right, but the average woman is ALSO less desirable than they were in the 1950s. Submissive, virgin bride, housewives do not exist in 2023.

The difference is that men were willing to accept that women didn't want to be virgin housewives and settle for a woman who wasn't a virgin housewife if a woman was willing to settle for a man who wasn't a hyper-masculine alpha male provider.

Women didn't like that deal and decided to exclusively go for the alpha male providers anyway, while hiding what they were doing in order to save face and keep the laws favorable to them, whether they themselves were traditionally feminine or not and so they obviously ended up getting cheated on, lied to, abused, knocked up, etc..., etc..., by alpha males looking to get their rocks off while hunting for a traditional woman, and then, as a result of their own nievety and massive egos; they decided to demonize all men as abusive while completely ignoring the weak beta males who are, as you say; "in their parents basement, hardly care for their appearance, addicted to porn, no ambition." but are actually in their league as women who are not virgins, not housewifes, do not submit to their husbands, etc..., etc...

There was a push for women to accept this reality and lower their standards but women violently pushed back insisting that men just needed to level up.

So, instead of "leveling up" so that they could afford to buy used cars at new car prices; the average man has just checked out of the market to go to the Philippines or play video games until women decide to be new cars again. Men tried to compromise, women weren't having it, so now they can either share Chad or die alone.

TL;DR - Yes, most men are exactly as you describe, but they are also all that most modern women, who are as equally loserish as the men; deserve. Or to put it another way; being a loser is all that modern women can inspire most men to do in 2023. No man is going to devote his existence to a woman who has nothing of value (chastity, youth, loyalty, submission, respect for male authority, etc..., etc...) to offer him. That is ASSUMING that he even knows what women want from a man considering that women cannot just come out and say what they want without being exposed as hypocrites and risking unfavorable legislation, especially in regards to reproductive rights for Chad in the form of paper abortions and a re-write of the divorce and alimony laws if society ever figured out what they were doing.

cute_boy_kisser · 2023-05-25T02:46:20+00:00

I think for the most part average men are doing fine, just not on dating apps. I've seen so many average to semi-attractive men with decent profiles get nothing on Tinder.

So if an average man only uses dating apps, yes, they will most likely struggle.

Pixiwish · 2023-05-25T05:57:56+00:00

This is so true. The amount of men I see who obviously haven’t showered in days, smell and wear old faded anime, gaming or meme shirts is ridiculous. Their hair and beards are nappy too. It honestly isn’t that hard for a man to look decent.

peteypete78 · 2023-05-25T06:23:41+00:00

expected average.

That's the problem.

Amazing-Key-1575 · 2023-05-25T06:23:52+00:00

So you’re telling me you saw a bunch of “average” American men with attractive women? According to a quick Google search in 2019 “The «average American man 20 years old and up weighs 197.9 pounds. The average waist circumference is 40.2 inches, and the average height is […] 5 feet 9 inches”

I have a feeling the “average” you’re describing is not the “average” in reality.

Regardless, there are so many factors you’re not taking into account & much of what you said is anecdotal subjective experience. this post is trivial.

I’ll note that it’s silly to presume any normal assortment of males are going to be seen hanging out at restaurants alone. So what you’re witnessing could better be described as followed: “I saw people that go on dates on dates at a restaurant.”

[Edit for perspective: “As of 2016, the average height for American women 20 years old and up is just under 5 foot 4 inches (about 63.7 inches) tall. The average weight is 170.6 pounds.”

For me, what “average” means here looking at these stats is that “average” is fat, unhealthy, and probably unattractive. And I don’t think fat, unhealthy, and probably unattractive men are finding their dating lives are going swimmingly.

For context, I am 6’1” 187lb +-5-7lb any given week. I probably waiver between 12-17% body fat depending on I how much I’m eating. I’ve exercised daily for over a decade. And I believe I am below average in terms of fitness in my demographic.]

No-Pen8713 · 2023-05-25T07:02:00+00:00

Idk I’m 5’11/180 lean muscle (gym regularly), dress very well (have been told this by men and women), make 350k/yr in a “prestigious” job at 23, have my own place in NYC, would say I’m facially above avg, good skincare routine (very clear, bright skin), great hairstyle, have tons of friends so I’m def not socially awkward, etc. and I’m yet to be in a relationship and N count is 0 lmaoo.

But maybe I’m below avg like you said who knows.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-25T07:41:03+00:00

How many people are going to keep misunderstanding the 80/20 thing?

It applies to CASUAL SEX. Not relationships

cel-shaded · 2023-05-25T09:24:41+00:00

I was with you OP, until this line:

The type of guys to be perpetually loveless are the ones in their parents basement, hardly care for their appearance, addicted to porn, no ambition.

I strongly disagree because those are mostly average men who simply do not try. Actually below average men - who are what i suspect to be most struggling men here - are autistic, suffer from childhood trauma and/or are just plain ugly. Usually a combination of those 3.

VehementlyDrawn · 2023-05-25T09:51:46+00:00

I don't believe that men changed or devolved in the last 40 years since the advent of the internet.

Is it really that hard to grasp that people's perceptions of each other change more easily than their physical body actually devolving?

esdebah · 2023-05-25T11:23:05+00:00

I was actually pretty surprised to see the disparity between single.men and women at ages 18-32. I'm an average guy (maybe below) in my late 30s and it didn't make a ton of sense to me, didn't match my experience growing up in and around Boston. That's part of why I come to this sub. Because I can't understand why men are having so much trouble and I fully reject the reactionary 'take back the patriarchy' narrative about it.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-05-25T02:03:13+00:00

In this forum, I think its below average men, average men shooting out of their league delusional about their own worth or emotionally damaged men. I agree with your post otherwise, the majority of couples are average looking people in the same socioeconomic status. Luckily PPD men aren't men IRL...

Stunning_Thing4208 · 2023-05-25T03:58:37+00:00

I think reddit brings a special kind of loser.

Those guys on their nights out weren't shit posting about tradwives on Reddit were they?

Last_Rule_2536 · 2023-05-25T02:04:28+00:00

The reality is that average guys are appropriately paired off in real life.

The majority of men here and also on dating apps are below average especially the ones saying they don’t get a single match ever. At that point you’re definitely just way below average

tritter211 · 2023-05-25T06:22:59+00:00

I make this judgment because I was at a restaurant the other night and I saw so many average looking men enjoying the evening with women on their nights out. They were mostly average everyday men with quite a few great looking women. I see this all the time.

women have the advantage: makeup and advanced skincare products. I don't think many guys comprehend how effective all these makeup products are, really. Them chemicals are incredibly effective at hiding the many faults women have. Even the "no makeup" makeup is time consuming. (And massive improvements in plastic surgery which are more popular than ever today)

Not to mention women are literally raised to effectively use these makeup products right from their childhood years so by the time they are adults, they are experts at applying and using effective makeup. OF COURSE they look good!

But, unfortunately for men, women not being obese puts them at the top even if they are plain looking (in a good way).

They don't spend HOURS prepping themselves for the night out for nothing...

Safinated · 2023-05-25T03:43:42+00:00

Lake Wobegon, baby. Where the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all the children are all above average.

Also, I bet the men here don’t even see the average ass nobodies that the other average ass nobodies are with; you must have “normie goggles”, congrats

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2023-05-25T03:53:29+00:00

I think the men that are struggling have a personality issue. I see average men and below average men with women. If they’re struggling it’s because I don’t think they have enough charisma, charm, or pleasantness to make them a slightly bearable to be around. I think it’s easy to make up for being physically below average or just average if you’re funny.

I’ve been on dating apps on and off for years. I’ve seen the same men on there for years. What they have in common, regardless of above or below average, is the incredibly standoffish bios. The open bitterness and sarcasm is scaring the hoes. I’ve had this one guy who liked me on every dating platform but I always swipe left because his bio is about how he probably loves his dog more than you. It’s that open negativity that holds people back.

totallyworkinghere · 2023-05-25T03:12:18+00:00

Looks are not everything. Most women are willing to look past average or below average looks in exchange for a good personality. The type of men who tend to become incels also have a below average personality, and never actually do anything to change that. They just try to hide it better.

indigo_royal · 2023-05-25T04:32:45+00:00

The miserable incels want to believe only chads and good looking guys get women. It’s country dependent too. Situation in India is very different than US.

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Financial_Window_990 · 2023-05-25T03:41:13+00:00

It's not a minority of men. It's the majority.

Reptheft · 2023-05-25T04:02:12+00:00

When people say average they're often just referring to guys who look average, and you can still have those other problems limiting your dating prospects despite legitimately looking average.

Also, it depends on what he's looking for. Even a properly social average guy could still struggle getting casual sex, for example.

Treacle-Flimsy · 2023-05-25T06:24:24+00:00

I think it's just a combination of "unlucky" and "below average guys. A guy could already have moved out of parent's house and works for a living but dating scene is rigged too much against him so he doesn't have a success or the guy who lives with his parents just isn't attractive to women.

grendalor · 2023-05-25T11:17:06+00:00

"Expected average" is the crux here.

What you're saying is that men are falling behind women, and aren't living up to expectations. That may be true -- it certainly is true in terms of education. It's somewhat less true in terms of income, but there's variance there depending on where you are talking about. And in general, women have more upward trajectory in our culture and society than men do. So I can see the case that men's actual average is not what women want it to be.

But that's quite different than saying these men aren't actually average. Average has an objective meaning -- it's the average. If the average guy is overweight, then that's what average is. What I think you're saying is that these men who are actually average are not living up to the "expected average" of women ... which may be true, but it is not supportive of the idea that average men are not having issues. What that is saying is that fewer men are living up to the "expected average" (which is, in actual fact, above the actual male average today), and it's these men who are struggling -- not the guys who are living up to the "expected average". But all that is saying is this: "guys who are actually above average are not struggling", because the guys who are meeting your "expected average" are actually above the actual average of men.

Now it may very well be that the actual average of men is less attractive than women would like it to be, but that's a very different statement than claiming that actually average men are not struggling, when the counterexamples you raise are men who meet an "expected average" which is above what the "actual average" is.

Green-Quantity1032 · 2023-05-25T12:55:38+00:00

It depends on how you define 'struggling'.

I know a lot of men who struggle getting sex, nonetheless they can get someone to have sex within a month if they put the work in..

For a lot of them, the struggle is in comparison to some Chad who can log on to tinder 9pm and have someone at his apartment by 00:00.

It doesn't feel good to be working at something someone else treats as an afterthought.

I'm sure most of PPD men are just socially-anxious/shy average men who are too consumed with the above issue to even be working on their dating issues.

harmonica2 · 2023-05-25T14:56:34+00:00

To answer the OP, if it's true there's no such thing as luck I guess that means that it's all based on game?

EdwardTheeMasterful · 2023-05-25T04:02:20+00:00

You were at one ☝️ restaurant for one ☝️ night and just so happened to see soooo many average men with average women.

Every time you experience that one scenario. Mankind raises you one reversed scenario times one thousand.

Can also say what makes you deduce the men were average and not above average..

Prestigious-Treat777 · 2023-05-25T12:15:54+00:00

I am 225 lbs with defined abs, been training in gym for the last 7 years and have extreme problems with dating women. I guess I'm below average.

Title	What makes you think the “unlucky” men are average?
Author	Youngking41
Upvotes	31
Comments	196
Date	May 25, 2023 1:45 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13r4i41/what_makes_you_think_the_unlucky_men_are_average/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-makes-you-think-the-unlucky-men-are-average.1220247 https://theredarchive.com/post/1220247

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