Risk of poverty is higher for women after divorce and separation.

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-28T16:15:47+00:00

This thread has been retagged as a CMV.

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-28T15:13:35+00:00

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Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-28T15:38:39+00:00

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StupidNeighborDog · 2023-06-28T19:28:59+00:00

I'll just leave this here.

After I retired from the army, I went into tech. I live modestly but earn around $300K a year.

It's was very hard for me to find a woman who wasn't attracted to my income until I purposefully "de-wealthed" my appearance and lifestyle.

There are absolutely gold diggers out there who are attracted to a paycheck. If you're upper-middle class then you have two options - either date an equally career driven woman (gross) or conceal your wealth so potential mates don't see it until after you've vetted them. Any other path is just women seeing you as a bag of dollar signs.

Married now for few years but it took wading through a sea of gold diggers to find a normal woman who actually cared about me as a person. I hid my income from her for the first year that we dated and didn't reveal it until I was ready to propose.

Workaholiconew · 2023-06-28T15:37:03+00:00

... I don't wanna be that guy but...

Isn't it just a proof that divorced women are reliant on their men for their lifestyle or wealth?

I mean, most guys don't got a trust fund giving high dividends, they only have wealth in the form of houses, cars and furniture. So once these are sold by the woman, she got no way to remain in her level of wealth outside of working for herself no?

While the guy who have the skill to generate money would feel a enormous decrease in wealth at first... if he is the main generator of wealth (i.e. almost all marriages) he will eventually recover after a few years from having half of his assets stolen. It will hurt, but he will reconstruct.

It just shows how divorced women erroneously assume they can do well without a man by their side after a divorce... which is not exactly true.

Garfish16 · 2023-06-28T20:44:28+00:00

So I just read the articles and I don't think they're saying what you're saying but I'm also not entirely sure I understand what you're saying. Please cut the strawmaning and the grievance for a minute and just put it plainly. What position do you believe these articles support? What is the view you want changed?

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-06-28T17:30:59+00:00

The odd thing is that after ditching a terrible man one feels so much richer even though the balance book seems to indicate one isn't. Alone in a shabby apartment rolling out old blankets to make a softer spot to sleep on the floor...the bed feels warmer without him in it Eating a frozen pizza you heated up direct on the oven rack because you don't have oven trays yet...that thing tastes incredible because no one is whining about it. Putting aside a thousand dollars of savings...it feels like a fortune because it is all yours and you won't need to defend it from him spending it on something stupid.

When I left my husband back in the early nineties I was earning 12 thou a year and he was earning 40 thou. Within two years I was able to buy real estate...and he was selling the marital house despite me having basically said in the settlement 'look take it all I can recover from that' he couldn't afford to keep up payments. I didn't ask for or get a cent of spousal support and all I asked for was two thou of savings I'd brought into the relationship back. On paper? I was poor. In reality? Better off than I had been for years.

Maybe men understand emotionally the general vibe that women who leave give out of being better off...and understand their own feelings of being worse off after the split...but lack the desire to do the actual sums and come to the conclusions that need to be reached to actually learn anything?

Particular_Trade6308 · 2023-06-28T18:15:40+00:00

OP is this research not the obvious conclusion given that most men outearn their wives?

The studies compared separated people to a control group with similar demographic stats who didn’t break up.

Take any couple where the man brings in 60% of the income (I believe this is the average in the US), the woman would experience a 25% drop in income post-separation just because she went from splitting a pie 50/50 to only having her own 40%. Even if every woman was allocated alimony, since alimony awards tend to target past living standards and not future income growth, the married couple will always look richer because of the income growth of the higher-earning spouse.

In other words, since women make less than men in marriages, the longer a woman is attached to a man, the more $ she “makes.” Not a surprise.

Also you should compare these separated people to their single never-married counterparts, since the RP claim is that never marrying is better than marrying and divorcing.

Overall this OP had a lot of assumptions, linked studies that OP didn’t read, and overall missed the point. I’ll give it a 3/10 for actually linking data.

YveisGrey · 2023-06-28T23:52:03+00:00

It just tell me women cant manage their ex husbands money.

WingclippedBirdman · 2023-06-29T10:28:54+00:00

women fare worse after divorce

If women fare worse after divorce and the reason for it is not working to raise kids, then its not about man vs woman its about higher earner vs lower/non-earner. A man who is a stay at home dad will suffer just as badly if the wife is the breadwinner because dad will have left the workforce for years to care for the kids while mom kept developing her career the whole time.

Its not a gendered issue, its whoever stays home loses in divorce.

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abaxeron · 2023-06-28T21:28:16+00:00

One. Most expensive divorces in human history involve massive transfer of wealth from ex husbands to ex wives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_divorces

Two. Most of the richest women to ever live are either heiresses, divorcees, or widows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_billionaires

Three. Most "women are poor after divorce" studies operate with INCOME as a sole criterion of poverty. By this criterion, many heirs of, say, Tolkien - should be considered poor.

Four. Poverty line criterions in every country I investigated never took into account that it's more expensive to be a man than a woman. Unfortunately for women's ego, protein-rich food that also doesn't clog kidneys is more expensive than your sanitary pads. If that lady from here on PPD shows up again to list body butter as a female specific NECESSITY I'll happily laugh in her face again. The Pill is also not a necessity. No, the pill as a medically necessary cure is just as rare and as ineffective as treating a man's blood pressure with viagra.

Five. Women still have at the very least two options of either not filing for divorce, or not getting married in the first place.

Six. Considering how much an average woman squeezes her male spouse out of his productive potential to fuel her insatiable appetite for better life, it's no surprise that after divorce she'll have to live like a normal human being.

Seven. Men kill themselves more after divorce; in fact, divorce is the most universal predictor of male suicide worldwide. Saying that divorce laws do not deserve reconsideration because not all women leave marriage with billions... means valuing women's disposable income more than men's lives.

Phewh. Yknow, I think I'm done for now.

uselessloner123 · 2023-06-28T17:14:45+00:00

I think it’s important to keep demographics In mind. Reddit skews college educated, liberal, living in big cities, etc where men are richer, divorce courts are more than willing to clean out men, etc.

A lot of divorces in the working class setting are between two equally broke partners who split rent on a house or apartment. The woman earns nothing from divorce proceedings and typically ends up with the kids so she has many mouths to feed on a single income instead of double. While that’s the reality for working class divorces, it isn’t and never will be the lived experience for most who use this site.

Acaciduh · 2023-06-28T15:16:08+00:00

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YveisGrey · 2023-06-28T19:18:40+00:00

If they still end up in poverty despite being the majority recipients of marital assets after the divorce, then it sounds like their problem, no?

I wouldn't be very surprised if I saw an old-timey newspaper headline that says "Woman with no good career aspects divorces husband - goes broke." She is returning to the financial state that she was probably in before getting married because she had nothing to sustain that wealth with, and that's not the husband's or the marriage's fault. That's their fault for not developing any career skills before starting a relationship.

_BlueShark87 · 2023-06-28T19:18:49+00:00

I mean also a lot of guys don’t make a lot and not every woman is getting 10k a month for child support. A lot of guys also can’t or don’t pay child support/alimony but the main reason a lot of MRA/redpill guys talk about this is because it often DOES happen. I forget who but the wife of one celebrity is demanding 250k/month on child support, per year okay maybe that’s fine for 3 kids but 250k per MONTH! That’s not even for the kids that’s just going towards her at this point.

slazengerx · 2023-06-28T23:51:37+00:00

The idea that women are routinely divorcing for “cash and prizes” riding off into the sunset with ex hubby’s hard earned wealth, while popular has been repeatedly shown to be false.

This does happen. But it's only happening in a fairly small percentage of cases. Most people don't have a pot to piss in, after all. Last I read, around 10% of divorces in the US involve any alimony at all. And only a fraction of that number involves really substantial payments. Any woman getting married for money better marry someone really wealthy (and not sign a pre-nup), otherwise they're highly likely to be out of luck.

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-28T15:23:21+00:00

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LotBuilder · 2023-06-28T18:18:23+00:00

The amount of divorced women i run across that don’t work full time pretty crazy. Many burn through their settlement money in a year or two then limp along doing a some what flexible jobs. Mlm, realtor, etc. Then as the kids are aging out these women have to grind to create income. The men were grinding from the start and then when the kids age out he can really stack his money.

When men and women work the same hours they make the same money

BulletReaper · 2023-06-28T16:50:31+00:00

That’s probably because most of these women don’t have an education, careers, or a work ethic.

I live in a fairly wealthy neighborhood and my neighbors are two unemployed divorced women. Gee I wonder how they’re paying their $6k a month rent and taking care of 3 kids for the last 2 years without ever lifting a finger

Thing is eventually their money is going to dry up and I would not be surprised at all to see them getting kicked out since neither one wants to get a job

Annual_Anxiety_4457 · 2023-06-28T17:19:24+00:00

On aggregate i think it’s a bit like women take a financial hit while men take a social hit.

Alimony is mostly for very wealthy dudes and there are not that many of those.

The social hit is what is driving men to suicide after divorces, as they loose their social life.

The best way forward is to support men to have more friends And identity outside being a provider and women to take better care of their finances.

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2023-06-28T16:13:02+00:00

Not really. Most homeless people are men. Divorce is much harder financially on men. We are the ones paying alimony and child support most of the time. We are the ones who can go to jail if we don't pay. What exactly do women do besides sit on their arse and get paid? Poverty is not higher for women. I don't know where you found this data, but it's wrong. Don't trust everything you read on the internet. Just because something claims to be a "study" doesn't mean it is accurate or unbiased. If you look up real statistics for homelessness, it's mostly all men.

YveisGrey · 2023-06-28T16:47:30+00:00

Due to a female's hypergamous nature she chooses a mate that is of higher socioeconomic status than she is. So when they break up (and if there is no transfer of wealth from him to her) then of course she's at a higher risk of poverty.

If she worked at the coffee shop and married an electrician, well yeah, she probably only has the skills to go back to the coffee shop. Unless of course she can get a hold of the pawns... er... I mean the kids, and them for resource extraction. Novel idea eh? /S

Garfish16 · 2023-06-28T19:02:20+00:00

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kvakerok · 2023-06-28T20:58:45+00:00

The only conclusion to be made based on this study is: "divorced women suck at budgeting".

purplish_possum · 2023-06-28T18:36:42+00:00

Just because the plan didn't work doesn't mean the plan didn't exist.

Teflon08191 · 2023-06-28T18:43:54+00:00

The idea that women are routinely divorcing for “cash and prizes” riding off into the sunset with ex hubby’s hard earned wealth, while popular has been repeatedly shown to be false.

Perhaps not routinely but a woman with a mind to use divorce as a tool to achieve the above has the legal means to do so.

And that's the crux of the "divorce rape" issue. So long as one person can game the system to their benefit at another's expense, then it will be considered an injustice that ought to be addressed, regardless of how often it actually occurs.

AndyBrown65 · 2023-06-28T22:08:47+00:00

I will talk about the Australian version

In this country property settlements are 60/40 towards women. With custody, kids spend 82% of time with their mother

So…. We have a feminist child support system and this provides good transfer of income from the father to the mother. The formula is simple. Each parent has a living wage which is about $17k, then the remaining income is seen as family income. Let’s say for argument that it’s $100k, mum has the kids 82% of the time, then she gets $82k. NB the new partners income not included

If the father earns $80k and the mother $54k, the father with keep 17+18 (35) and he pays $65k to the mother, who already has 60% of the assets

The risk of poverty for women may be high in places like the US, but in Australia it’s the man who is more at risk

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-06-29T05:11:09+00:00

“I don’t want a woman to take half my stuff”….I’ve been divorced twice and I didn’t take anyone’s stuff, not a cent.

And the disdain for career oriented women here is odd. I personally wouldn’t put myself in a position where I had to rely on my partner’s money if we were no longer partners, therefore career & self sustainability. It’s not “gross”, it’s just smart.

throwawayVishot · 2023-06-28T15:31:51+00:00

The incessant need to vilify women in RP spaces is definitely a factor. But I also have a theory that since this myth is upheld by anecdotes that many divorced men simply need to believe this as an explanation for their own failed marriages. Otherwise they have to admit that she left because she rejects him not for the “cash and prizes.” OUCH that hurts.

Maybe she shouldn't reject her husband then. That's why marriage is supposed to be a lifelong commitment.

Scandi_Navy · 2023-06-28T18:58:35+00:00

Is that because they have too little money or because they refuse to stop spending as if they were a two income home? I'm sorry, but I know in how kittle you can survive. But that means no Nike shoes for junior, and no Loui bag for mom.

Also those sources are not in any way reputable for an insight into those finances.

There is a difference between saying that women leave, thinking they are getting rich, and the result of their cumulation of bad choices the following decade, in the name of "living their best life" and building generational wealth is boring.

Most divorced men end up bankrupt living in a single bedroom, not seeing their kids. The ones that don't delete themselves work 60+ hours because they have no choice. The fact that they dig themselves out of that hole like that, while mom works part time. Is not a reflection of "fair cost" distribution.

And she didn't leave him... She destroyed her children's family. Their family. For her hubris. For her selfishness, excitement. Whatever. Because she has no loyalty, not even to the best interest of her kids. Blowing all possible generational wealth on a second appartement. 99% of all delinquents come from single mother homes.

Every man I ever spoke has a copy paste experience. Hypergamous narcissistic women. Cheating. Parental alienation for profit. You can't fool us anymore. Go sit in on family court proceedings for a day. It is absolutely disgusting. Emotional and financial abuse of men.

And it's one thing that courts are like that. But a whole other that women are willing to do that to the father of their children. As if it's good for the children not to see them. Or have one if their parents in debt or on the street. Or deleted.

What the fuck is wrong with you women? Honestly. Do you suffer from mental illness? Because I can't explain it any other way.

REDDITmodsDIALATE · 2023-06-28T21:56:06+00:00

That's because they're irresponsiblee and not smart. I couldn't even imagine being an adult and getting an "allowenece" and still fucking it up lol

LouisdeRouvroy · 2023-06-29T00:13:17+00:00

OP, you're misunderstanding what you're talking about.

Divorced women do go for cash and prizes, but that still doesn't prevent them from getting into poverty later.

It's called killing the goose that lay golden eggs.

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-28T15:57:08+00:00

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AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-06-28T17:15:51+00:00

Mostly agree. A woman would have to be really stupid to think a one time payout or even alimony/child support would leave her in a better situation financially on an ongoing basis. Women just leave usually because they don't find their husbands attractive, either not anymore or never did. Of course abuse and a man cheating happens but I think boredom is the number one cause and she wants to reboot her life to be more fulfilling.

The only part I disagree on is that branch swinging is a thing. You almost certainly know a woman who got set up with an upgrade man taking care of her immediately after divorce. It happened fast enough that she had to have had it in the works while she was married, whether or not she got physical with this other guy at that time or not. I don't think this is the usual case, but it happens enough that it's a noticeable phenomenon.

Ludens0 · 2023-06-28T17:59:46+00:00

Marriage has always been benefical for women. The divorce is usually worst on the man's part, but just for the process. In mid-long term men would probably improve by their own.

DrBoby · 2023-06-28T18:40:04+00:00

This is idiot, they aren't separating to get richer than when they were in couple. They are coupling and separating to get a kid and at the same time get richer than when they where alone.

You can clearly see with a curve of single parent since 1900 that child support is the reason women divorce. With 2 dates, 1945 is child support for unmarried people, and 1970 is child support for married women divorcing for no reason.

Financial_Chemist286 · 2023-06-28T21:39:04+00:00

I think the main factor is children here.

It would be interesting to compare this information with divorcing that involves children and one that does not have children involved.

I wonder how many marriages are childless or without any minor children involved and how many are actually with children and the rates of divorce for both sets?

cromulent_weasel · 2023-06-28T22:15:19+00:00

The idea that women are routinely divorcing for “cash and prizes” riding off into the sunset with ex hubby’s hard earned wealth, while popular has been repeatedly shown to be false.

I think that EVERYONE gets fucked financially in a divorce.

Actual studies on the topic show that women fair worse financially after divorce and getting primary custody of the kids actually increases risk of poverty for them, (duh because the kids need caretakers and average child support payments barely scratch the surface of a child’s monthly needs). I wonder why then do so many men feel the need to perpetuate this myth with absolutely no objective evidence?

Everyone finds it easy to focus on their own losses, while what you don't see, does that even exist? So men see the financial, relationship and child custody that they have lost, and those are real losses.

But I also have a theory that since this myth is upheld by anecdotes that many divorced men simply need to believe this as an explanation for their own failed marriages.

Everyone is the hero of their own story. I also think that everyone has a subconscious that kinda tells them lies to make them feel good about themselves. The pathways of our brain that we use to evaluate our own behaviour is different from the pathways in our brain we use to evaluate the behaviour of others. Basically, our jerk brain lies to us and tells us we are much better than we are.

Oh the lies we tell ourselves to feel better.

Totally.

But what’s worse is that the men perpetuating this myth are just given a free pass to be dead wrong.

I think that social media creates echo chambers where different groups can engage in group think and reinforce each other regarding their respective myths. That's true for RP types but they are far from the only ones.

RedPill115 · 2023-06-29T03:53:09+00:00

Studies basically find whatever the people who paid for the study want them to find. Sometimes they tell you the tricks they used.

Being in poverty was defined as having an equivalised household income below 50% of the median across the country.

11.6% - poverty per goverment definition.
50% - point they chose for agenda/ad/propaganda purposes

skapunkess · 2023-06-29T05:04:31+00:00

Absolutely. My ex abandoned the kids after the divorce, and I had to raise five kids on my own on less than 25k a year in support. Luckily I got the house and the car in the agreement, and my parents paid off my mortgage (30k) as soon as the title was changed over. It’s not easy trying to get back in a career and being the only caregiver to your kids. I have to go to court every time I want them to recalculate child support as well.. and the last time I submitted my petition for modification they told me it takes 8 weeks to even get a court date 🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ the government SUCKS.

MajesticPenisMan · 2023-06-29T12:22:58+00:00

oh the lies that we tell ourselves

Like this entire post? Go get a job and stop relying on men for your finances and you won’t live in poverty. Just because she divorce rapes you doesn’t mean she’s set for life, or even knows how to responsibly conduct herself.

If I didn’t control the money in our household we would be broke. She works a job for her own money making 20 something bucks an hour, I pay mathematically 80% of the bills and somehow she’s still always broke, I’m the only one putting money away to save. 10 years ago I was able to keep ourselves afloat on 20 something bucks an hour and she couldn’t hold a job.

I’m sure not all women are this bad with money, but a lot of them sure are.

Avakaaya-karam · 2023-07-13T16:37:15+00:00

You are leaving out the hypergamy of women where they usually marry upwards of their economic status. So if a womens general net worth is around 10k and her annual income is 50k but she married a man making 200k and leaves the job. Now after let's say 5 years she divorces him and gets just 30% (not even 50%) of it as alimony. She is making approx 70k as alimony. Just because she is married to him and the court awards this alimony to "sustain the lifestyle".

Risk of poverty is higher for women after divorce and separation.

Comments

Did the women divorce to live with someone else, and how that actually worked out?

Title	Risk of poverty is higher for women after divorce and separation.
Author	YveisGrey
Upvotes	81
Comments	411
Date	June 28, 2023 3:07 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14lbzup/risk_of_poverty_is_higher_for_women_after_divorce/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/risk-of-poverty-is-higher-for-women-after-divorce.1223919 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223919