Wanting less competition for elite or high status jobs is what really behind the sudden tradwife push in some manosphere spaces

rapsk · 2024-05-20T21:48:28+00:00

I'd categorize the tradwife push into the same bucket as the FIRE/digital-nomad/entrepreneur lifestyle that's plastered on social media. It captures the imagination of a lot of people and makes for great aesthetics. I don't think the intent of these messages is to snuff competition in elite social circles, I think their intentions are simpler - they want yet another source of income 🤷‍♂️

They want you to believe that it's possible for the average person and hide the fact their lifestyle is possible because of the savings accrued from a vaunted career. While I think they genuinely like the trad lifestyle, they need to make sure you like it as well so they can get more ad revenue, book seminars, sell courses and Etsy merch.

StunningSort3082 · 2024-05-20T21:03:53+00:00

In general, people vision of what a “traditional” family is is not actually traditional. Women have always worked. In agrarian societies, they were often responsible for growing the food that fed their families while men focused on producing crops that could be sold. As societies advanced and industrialized, women took jobs in factories and as domestic help.

The picture perfect family with a stay at home mom, two kids, a paid off car and a 3 bedroom home wasn’t a reality for many families even in the golden years of the 50s and 60s.

Something-bothersome · 2024-05-20T23:53:08+00:00

It’s marketing, nothing more.

It’s content to be sold. No different to making content for travel shows, cooking shows, cars. They are huge sellers.

Recently the younger folk have a bit of an itch about the “good old days”. There is lots of neat stuff if you look for it - the older skills, cooking, knitting, sewing, blacksmithing, restoring absolutely anything, living off grid, heaps of variations around farming, car restoration, anything with fire seems a big hit.

The Trad wife online thing is just a variation - it’s a lifestyle to sell.

I watched an online thing about making boots the “traditional way” the other day, it’s great fun. Let’s just say I will not be making my own boots. I am however now pretty wistful about having bespoke boots and how much better they must be.

Some guy tried to make his own complete outfit from scratch and he ended up with half a suit. Apparently not as easy as originally thought…

giveuporfindaway · 2024-05-21T01:41:24+00:00

Women in elite jobs want independence. Whereas women in shitty jobs have to work, but would prefer to stay at home.

Critical_Corner_1859 · 2024-05-21T07:41:56+00:00

Women almost always worked.

In China they rapped the feet of really young girls (lotus feet) to keep them in once place, so they could work with their hands a lot and not desire to move or play. They were told this will help them get married to rich men, because it's a beauty/symbol status.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-05-21T02:35:57+00:00

Good observation. Society has never seemed to have an issue with women laboring, whether on a farm, in a kitchen, or in a factory. What it does often have a problem with is women getting paid well and being independent, and taking good jobs.

Just as the recent push against abortion has nothing to do with morals really and everything to do with declining birth rates. It’s always about money if you look close enough.

Demasii · 2024-05-20T21:41:11+00:00

I disagree with the competition angle.

While I do believe conservative men don't like working with women in high status jobs (especially post MeToo movement) many of these men aren't financially illiterate.

Most ex-SAHMs get part time jobs when their kids start school. There isn't a need for the women to stay at home all day at that point. The extra money helps.

I have also witnessed some negativity from men when career women take maternity leave but don't come back with the same commitment to the job they use to have before motherhood.

Edit add: On the flip side new fathers are a lot more exploitable in the workplace and pressured into more work to support the family.

PeaSlight6601 · 2024-05-20T22:28:22+00:00

There is no way that Harrison Butker is threatened by high profile professional women. So that is the first bit of evidence against what you are proposing.

In general I don't see a lot of men pushing "tradwife" instead I see women adopting it. It is social media influencers who call themselves #tradwife in their instagram, and that it is mostly driven by women, not men.

I think "tradwife" has a lot more to do with these women not wanting to feel inadequate relative to their peers.

If you are a woman from an upper class conservative background, your parents would have sent you to a good college. Many of your females peers from that college will go off to get PhD/MD etc because they can, and many will have careers. If you instead focus on the Mrs, you might feel rather bad about yourself. You haven't accomplished anything with your supposedly superior female intellect and focus. Instead you are just popping out babies.

So its natural to see a reaction that says: "No I am doing the right thing, women are supposed to be raising kids its natural and best for the children. I sacrificed my career to do what is best for my children and there is no higher calling!"

Now they can feel properly superior for not working.

[This probably comes off a lot more hostile towards the women than I feel. I mostly hostile towards the "social media influencer" bit than the "tradwife" idea.]

Yet I rarely see conservatives decrying how [people of any gender] working these minimum wage jobs are far more stressed and miserable then the [professionals].

CraftyCooler · 2024-05-21T09:21:38+00:00

From my observations it is quite opposite - once guy is getting an education and well-paid job, usually the old relationship with girl that didn't followed the same path comes to an end. I've seen this many times - even recently younger colleague of my wife decided to leave his gf, because he met 'different type of girls' in his new job and he wants more, looks alone is not enough for him anymore. Such guys want to have more women in these spaces, because they want to partner with their intellectual/cultural peers.

Besides - in reality there is not much competition for well paid jobs, sure - plenty of people apply, but they cannot meet the bare minimum. There is no single country with surplus of doctors or scientists. Even if you are more senior in IT there is not much competition.

Latter_Ad_6840 · 2024-05-21T03:52:02+00:00

I agree but I also think that chores, domestic duties, childcare are thankless jobs that are not valued at all by society. Society values professional accomplishment and capital output.

Men unsurprisingly want someone else to handle that stuff while they get to do the other stuff. I think it can be a worthwhile tradeoff if the man has enough money but I think many men who don't are resentful of the power dynamic imbalance and of the restraints to their mission involved with having to be part of domestic duties.

superlurkage · 2024-05-20T22:21:45+00:00

It’s not that complicated.

The higher a woman’s income, the less power a man has over her

guppyhunter7777 · 2024-05-21T00:35:16+00:00

um a few Tradwives isn't going to diminished the number of female bosses. That math does not check out.

AidsVictim · 2024-05-21T02:22:24+00:00

My feeling is the reason why, is conservative/tradcons don‘t have a problem with working women, they just have a problem with women working high status jobs because they view them as competition for these jobs. I genuinely believe this is behind the sudden reactionary tradwife nonsense we are seeing online, its not because they respect SAHMs, the same men often will throw a fit if they are expected for provide for everything.

Perhaps this has some relevance but it's far from the primary reason. High status jobs already tend to screen conservatives out for ideological reasons, the primary "competition" is between right and left liberal tendencies (or more concretely between the nationalist bourgeoise and international bourgeoise). Immigrants also tend to push "native" men out more than women since they tend to be in male dominated fields more. To the degree that they're "competing" against women they're further down on the list and I doubt most conservatives are thinking in those terms anyway.

Mostly their motivation is more or less what they say it is - they view career women as socially dysgenic in terms of family formation. Whether you agree or disagree it's their genuine belief.

SulSulSimmer101 · 2024-05-21T06:10:30+00:00

Hmm yea no. I don't agree. I think women are just tired of working and I get it but you'll always be working.

NaviaMain · 2024-05-20T21:06:06+00:00

women in general are stupid, just like men, successful people, both men and women, are a minimal portion of society.

WYenginerdWY · 2024-05-21T05:25:25+00:00

This is part of it, but you can't understate their desire for even minimally earning women to be forced to leave the workplace. Their working assumption is that if they can trim women's options down to "poverty" or "marry the first man you can get your hands on", then they'll get more pussy. And all of their rage ultimately comes down to pussy access.

Preme2 · 2024-05-20T20:59:18+00:00

Seems like alot of the younger generation is rejecting elite or high status jobs. Tik tok trends of young women saying they want a “lazy girl iob”. Younger generation opting to work for themselves over working in corporate. Much more entrepreneurship. I think there is more of a push for work life balance. Those elite or high status jobs often come with more pay but very stressful. If we’re talking about the elite of the elite like working for Apple or for JP Morgan, some Harvard, Yale person already has that job. Those people are very few and not on the trad radar.

Harrison Butker said some things I agree with and said some things I don’t agree with. But do you really think he’s fighting for a high status job with other women?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markcperna/2023/12/12/meet-the-latest-version-of-quiet-quitting-lazy-girl-jobs/

https://www.entrepreneur.com/leadership/young-workers-dont-want-to-become-managers-and-this/462273

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/14/small-business-entrepreneurship-gem-report/

Proudvow · 2024-05-21T14:45:40+00:00

Women working minimum wage don't have ridiculous wealth/status standards and don't spend all their prime years in college.

its not because they respect SAHMs, the same men often will throw a fit if they are expected for provide for everything.

Men just don't want to provide for the stereotypical modern women, they're fine providing for chaste and/or submissive women.

63daddy · 2024-05-21T00:15:47+00:00

Contrary to feminist propaganda, most women have worked throughout U.S. history. I’ve personally seen the far left deny this more than the far right, but of course that doesn’t mean most women don’t want to be provided for, at least in part. I think “tradcons ” got that right. Heck, I think most men dream of the day they can stop working.

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Melodic_Structure928 · 2024-05-21T20:47:48+00:00

Having a stay at home parent is actually proven to be really good for the child during very early years of development, and well I’m gonna just be honest most of the women here and in general would not want that to be the father. There’s also the fact that as women continue to get more educated in greater numbers, (most college grads are now women) and these women for the most part WILL NOT consider a man who makes less then them, and yes I’m aware this isn’t all women however most do not like being the primary bread winners.

With that said as they move up the corporate ladder less and less men remain above them and thus their dating pool becomes smaller and smaller, This is also one of the major contributing facts for declining birth rates and less people coupling up. Back when women couldnt work traditional jobs the blacksmith and the farmer dudes used to look pretty appealing, but nowadays that same women would be a docter and won’t even look in the farmers general direction. If these trends continue a lot of women will have to be ok with being the primary bread winners for there families. I’ve also heard lots of stories of women resenting there husbands cause they make less then them as well which is a situation that many men want to avoid.

And by the way I’m not blaming anyone for this or saying women are somehow wrong for wanting what they want, I’m just explaining why the dynamics are this way.

TRTGymBro1 · 2024-05-22T01:36:47+00:00

Damn right these women coming to my country taking our jobs, breathing our air, taking out men.

Jaded-Worldliness597 · 2024-05-20T21:24:57+00:00

Yeah, I don't think this is accurate. Most of the Trad husbands are blue collar guys making good money. Guys who own plumbing outfits or general contractors. I see that all the time. Sometimes tech workers, but not often. The elite office job environment is super woke. These two ideas of how to live just don't mesh well and it would be damn hard for a traditionalist to stay in one of these elite jobs, like president of a university or some such. Even the higher ranks of corporations are packed with woke acting fakeness. Gotta be on point with trends to survive at that level.

So I think your theory is garbage. I think the tradwife idea is just people unhappy with what's going on today and looking back at an ideal of the past that never existed. Cultures go through this stuff all the time.

drunk_Panzer · 2024-05-20T23:00:40+00:00

As a guy who works white collar, this definitely isn't the case. I guarantee you that we don't see women as competition.

FreitasAlan · 2024-05-21T01:19:49+00:00

Some many theories in this sub 😂

obviousredflag · 2024-05-21T10:49:27+00:00

Work towards solutions for what?

absconder87 · 2024-05-21T02:04:38+00:00

I have a set of books based on questionnaires sent to Civil War veterans in Tennessee in the 1920s. One of the questions asked what household chores each parent performed. When it came to their mothers, the vast majority of men came from rural backgrounds, so they answered the same over and over: she cooked, cleaned, cared for the children, carded and spun wool, wove the wool into cloth, and then used that to sew clothes. Laundered

Turbulent-Tonight975 · 2024-05-21T02:52:39+00:00

Your take is ridiculous. The reason they talk about these 'high status jobs' is because it is to show that most women who work them are unhappy. The difference is that the low paying retail jobs are obviously worse off that being a stay home mother with a husband who pays the bills.

The arguments for low earning women being happier not working really don't even need to be argued. Work at Walmart for 16 dollars an hour to barely make enough to stay out of poverty and nowhere near enough to buy a house or raise a family! Nobody but an extremist would argue that Walmart life is better for a woman if she could find a guy who made 75k a year and was a quality partner.

Also Feminism sells the fantasy to women of the high earning job. Feminism isn't selling women the Walmart job I talked about in the last paragraph. Feminism sells women the fantasy of the high profile job and living an affluent live with lots of fun experiences and vacations. The trad dudes are saying that this fantasy is just a fantasy because most unmarried childless women in these roles are not particularly happy. The unmarried childless women I know in their 30s are generally far less happy than the wives of my friends who do have kids and are either working a part time job or not working and just taking care of the household and kids.

Most of these single 30 and up women are having a horrible time with dating because their egos have risen to such levels that they think they deserve a Chris Hemsworth type of guy- who is never going to choose them.

It is showing that even in the most optimal outcome that feminism tries to entice women to believe, it still is more likely than not going to end up with an unhappy woman.

excess_inquisitivity · 2024-05-21T00:04:53+00:00

I will grant your premise, if & only if, you concede this one:

The primary business & government reason for the push for feminism in the 50s, & 60s, was NOT care for women, but increasing the labor pool & consumerism due to mothers' absence in the home.

Tywinlol · 2024-05-20T21:26:58+00:00

If we talk about truly elite top 10% jobs, then those are usually obtained though connections and nepotism, tradwives are neither here nor there. If take it one level down and talk about relatively good white collar job, think top 25%, then they are shrinking in number and quality by the day and again tradwives are irrelevant here, as competition for those jobs will be incredibly fierce regardless. Especially if we take into account that market is ridiculously over saturated with 4 year degrees. Last but not least blue collar jobs tend to pay better and better, and are source of men's wealth increasingly, so again it's neither here nor there.

As for tradwives themselves, they are meant to be a cushion for females that fail to get into those soft, overpaid positions. They role is to prey on gullible men and steal their hard earned, usually blue collared, wealth though alimony, child support and false accusations. They present an attractive mirage of kind, submissive, feminine women, only to wreck men's life in the end. I would much rather have a liberal 50/50 relationship with a carrier women, then stay home parasite that can rob me and destroy me at any point. It's much safer, especially if children are avoided and even better if you live separately.

So, to summarize, men should avoid conservative/trad women, while living in feminist society. An entire system is set up to cater to such women, to pillage men on their behave and to blindly believe their every word. Sure if this was Afghanistan or Iran traditional marriage would make sense, but outside of traditional system, traditional marriage turns men into ATMs with no rights or power, and only with responsibilities that are ruthlessly enforced against them. So be smart gents, stay single, avoid children, marriage, cohabitation and ltrs in general. And if you must associate with females keep everything 50/50 and leave at the first sign of trouble.

Bubbly_Pension4020 · 2024-05-20T22:33:37+00:00

I’m not really pro or anti-trad wife, but I strongly dislike dating career women. I feel like a lot of the ones I have dated were status obsessed, and I got the sense that eventually they were either going to try to make me status obsessed or move on.

I don’t know, it just rubbed me the wrong way. Get along way better with artsy chicks.

NewOCLibraryReddit · 2024-05-20T22:31:11+00:00

I think if people were more honest about this, the conversation would be productive and we could actually work towards solutions.

What problem are you trying to solve? Honestly, I think you just wanted to complain about nothing.

Scarce12 · 2024-05-20T22:48:19+00:00

If this is true, then the best way to fight this is for feminists to stop complaining about the gender distribution in the top paying jobs.

LOL.

Baezil · 2024-05-20T21:00:15+00:00

Nah, people realized there was a ripe underserved market for the content and are cashing in.

The pendulum swung too far toward the opposite and that created the demand. It's just swinging back now.

one_time_animal · 2024-05-20T22:55:19+00:00

55% of women age 25-29 have an associates degree or better. If you were to ask the typical person they would probably guess at least 3/4s, and certainly the societal expectation is to go to college and get a degree. Everyone knows that anyone working fast food, service jobs, warehouse workers, front desk workers etc is doing it because they need the money. Additionally I think the expectation is that those women wouldn't have these demands that a man make equal pay or more than her because she's making 40 or 50k then most men who work full time would be matching that or slightly below. It's only once you get into women making 70 or 80k a year at 22-35 when that demand starts to become unreasonable/scrutinized because only 10% of people in that age range make 80k plus according to this calculator at least.

And I think it's also the perceived 'aiming up' mindset of those college finishing women. They sacrifice 4-9 years depending and they expect to come out of it not elite (depending) but upper middle class and so they expect an upper middle class or greater husband with a college degree. And the numbers just don't add up here either because more women graduate and moreover the bottom halfish of college degrees are a fucking waste of time. Maybe not in an 'enlightenment'. Keep your enlightenment. But in a financial sense, in a usefulness to society sense. I don't see degree in business or finance or education or social work as a sign of intelligence when it's from a school that accepts <1200 SAT scores. I see it as a monument to a person's midwit level intellect and conformity. But that's not how they see it. They think their degree from SUNY College at Old Westbury psychology is some sign of status, they think it makes them part of that 'upper middle class'. But really it just puts them into a class of people that was willing to pay, willing to show up not in the bottom third...tertile? of intellect.

I don't see the criticism about these top 10% jobs like you're claiming other than ones that are considered soulless like lawyers. I see the complaint more of the reality of the situation - you're going to go to school for at least 4 years and take on 100k in student loans so that you can come out the otherside with an embarrassing degree that really just flags you as someone who isn't a moron who can show up on time fairly consistently. Sitting in a cube. Even the most common job for women, Registered Nurse, they're just doing the same thing day in and day out with some seasoning. Oh this one has a ____diet, this one gets these meds, this one will have these vitals because of this condition. They go to college not because it's an intellectual feat, but because of the cost of fucking up. And why do so many women want to be nurses btw, as an aside? A part of it is a caring profession but I think a bigger part of it is the fantasy of being subservient to the apex generic career path, a doctor. It's a fantasy to find a mate of high status.

Last - men just aren't competitive with women unless it's some sort of flirting.

NPC558 · 2024-05-21T00:04:55+00:00

It makes sense.

Pushing for women to be in high paying jobs led to the inflation of living costs. It didn't inflate with the wages of non high status jobs that most women worked back in the day.

DeJuanBallard · 2024-05-21T16:49:51+00:00

Oh my God yall believe the dumbest shit.

funfacts_82 · 2024-05-22T07:42:23+00:00

I dont really care about women working or even men. Also never was afraid to lose a position to a woman (or even man).

If any of those issues applies to you then shoose a better field to work in. Thats what men do. You dont get a title and rely on it to the end of days but instead you choose a field that you like and where competence matters because most people are either incompetent or wont put in the work necessary.

So no i dont believe this argument has anythign to do with work for most men even the manosphere.

The reason is much simpler: They want a woman who is available and actually puts them before their job.

gntlbastard · 2024-05-20T20:44:23+00:00

Meanwhile, everyday some new feminist is out there crying about having to manufacture her own tampons because she can't afford anything.

BeneficialEstate8219 · 2024-05-20T22:45:23+00:00

Fundamental misunderstanding of why men go to work

Most men don’t care about the status, it’s cool for a bit but essentially a job is a means to an end to raise a family for the vast majority of men. They don’t care the company or title, as long as they can pay their bills and not hate their life. There’s some exceptions but typically they’re entrepreneurs so it makes sense

Women view this a bit differently as they take way more value in titles and status than men do for work. For example the KC cheerleader thinking her being affiliate with KC means she’s anywhere close to affecting the Kicker’s future. She likely wears her job on her sleeve and thinks people genuinely give a fuck that she’s a NFL cheerleader

Also most people don’t fear a woman taking their job because most jobs are through connections anyways. On top of that in the real world when a man wants a woman to stop working, outside of abuse, it’s because her job makes peanuts and is probably stressful like being a teacher, so it’s ultimately better she stay home w the children

variedpageants · 2024-05-20T23:24:37+00:00

Wanting less competition

No. Men thrive on competition.

is what [id] really behind the sudden tradwife push

There is hardly a "tradwife push" just because a tiny minority is talking about one particular choice that feminists, though they have long claimed to support women's choices, actively hate.

There's no push. But you should know that men really don't enjoy fighting with women. The idea of a woman who says, "I'm not going to fight - we're going to be partners" is like a breath of fresh air. Feminists are threatened by that prospect, because conflict keeps them in power.

Feminism, as an ideology, has never wanted you happy. They have only ever wanted you subservient ...to the ideology known as feminism.

CountMandrake · 2024-05-20T22:04:36+00:00

First, you are equarinf beinga traditional woman with being a lazy woman who does nothing but parasiting a man.

Second, you asume men view women as competition.

You are wrong. Men overall see women as weaker, smaller, deffenseless and fearfull humans not different to children that need to be protected and cuddled all the time.

Women do not represent a treat to men, not even in their best days, hence why men will never view women as direct competitors.

They would do great good tho by percieving women for what modernity has made of them:

A privileged and parasitical middle-upper that has been proven over and over to take more from taxes than they give away, making them a tax net negative group of people, with an explicitly biased political agenda that promotess that group intrest and want to get more of those people in positions of power, owning also the majoriry of votes and hence the political electing power, but still, somehow, for some reasson, do not have the duty to protect that freedom from othera.

SoldierExcelsior · 2024-05-21T00:12:58+00:00

I disagree...I think many men genuinely want a SAHW,that maintains the home and raises the kids not someone working 9-5 in corporate for one that beats the femininity out of women....two it disrupts the balance of power in a relationship...traditionally women have the sexuall power men have the finnancial power ...

But mostly I think it's male ego..theyvwant to be the bread winner.. and not about competition because men like to compete and they like a challenge and men generally out compete women in just about everything...also most men don't care about womens accolades because we don't believe they where earned on an even playing field .

I know so many women who got through college by sleeping with professors slept their way to the top at jobs or just get a pass because they're women..I see this play out everyday...pretty privilege is a real thing. I dated a girl that got the world handed to her on a silver plater.

Men do not care what women are doing as far as work aslong as they don't get in our way.. Interestingly I've noticed the woman with the highusxstatus jobs or positions generally aren't very attractive...and these women are more respected because guys feel like they actually had to earn it the hard way like men.

I just saw a bunch of young cute girls get promoted up none of them meet the standards and none of them do any work..they're cute and friendly though.. so guys arent going to complain or care for the most part..

Personally I wouldnt want my wife to work to be in these streets exposed..and as the man I feel like I should be able to support my family...it's not because I don't want to compete with women I can't compete with a gorgeous 22 year old blonde because I'm not going to nvm.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-05-21T00:21:20+00:00

I am against all working women. I'd never date a woman with a job. Of any kind.

Title	Wanting less competition for elite or high status jobs is what really behind the sudden tradwife push in some manosphere spaces
Author	SapphireRising225
Upvotes	60
Comments	188
Date	May 20, 2024 8:42 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1cwpw60/wanting_less_competition_for_elite_or_high_status/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wanting-less-competition-for-elite-or-high-status.1519056 https://theredarchive.com/post/1519056

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