Is it really worth trying to help PickMes?

BasieSkanks · 2022-01-24T11:33:07+00:00

I like to give them all the information and allow them to come to their own conclusions. This worked well with my best friend. Her scrote ex was treating her badly and she asked me what she should do. I knew she should break up with him, but I also knew that she would only leave when she is ready to leave. I have never met a woman who dumped her LV partner on the advice of a friend, myself included. Usually hard lessons have to be learned and/or the relationship has to be damaged beyond repair before women will leave. My friend worked through her feelings with my support and she eventually ended the relationship. I was so proud of her. Whilst it can be frustrating dealing with pickmes, I find remembering that I used to be the same helps me not to judge them too harshly. Most pickmes just want to be in a loving relationship. They just look for such a relationship with the wrong person.

ello-motto · 2022-01-24T11:07:39+00:00

Just give them a hint that the pathway is there.

Even if it doesn't resonate now, when they've reached rock bottom, they might recall you talking about a place called FDS.

I feel like a lot of women who came here, was after they reached a breaking point with their PickMe beliefs. They knew something wasn't right, and it led them here.

You just have to play the long game with PickMes. You also have to stay detached. Make the suggestion one or two times, but don't go out of your way to hammer the point to them they won't be in the mental space to get it.

driedvagina · 2022-01-24T12:41:10+00:00

Someone rescue missioned me and here I am. I wasn’t ready to hear it at the time but I came looking. Beyond thankful for that soul who reached out with her “Nah, sis” attitude.

BlueSkiesOverLondon · 2022-01-24T13:12:14+00:00

I’m sorry that happened to you. You took on a really hard case. You won’t get through to someone who was groomed as a child with evidence that the thing they’ve built their life around isn’t worth it.

Also, I find it likely, since she was groomed and the man is verbally abusive even to strangers, that Mary is also abused, probably severely. I don’t think it’s fair to compare abused women, even those who identify with their abusers as a survival tactic, to regular Pickmes, who could easily stop their behavior with no real consequences.

All the literature says that the best way to help an abused woman changer her life for the better is to provide support (“a shoulder to cry on,” as you say) and try to undermine the programming the abuser has put on them by listening to them instead of telling them what to do, showing you value their judgement, and filling their life as much as you can with other healthy connections abs positive experiences. Now, that’s a tall order, and it’s certainly not our obligation as FDS women to do that for everyone (or anyone!) we come across, but if you really want to rescue an abused woman, that’s the way to do it. There are no quick fixes, because the process of breaking her down to tolerate abuse wasn’t quick either.

As for regular pickmes, I think you’re right that it’s not worth expending a ton of energy trying to reach or convert them. Certainly we shouldn’t build FDS around outreach to pickmes. Luckily, I think just the existence of FDS, once they become aware of it, can be enough to plant a seed of doubt for many.

sikulet · 2022-01-24T11:54:21+00:00

I just comment on what I would have left on their post privately and ask them to come here and read.

I usually get seenzoned. A few would say thank you. Two in the past two years said this was too feminist. 🤣

What I’m saying not all people can be saved or see your point of view but I’d like to think that the more that FDS got traction the more the women spoke up and it’s making its way in more popular subs or TikTok’s that actually help other women from being groomed.

jijitsu-princess · 2022-01-24T13:50:45+00:00

This was truth I had to accept about myself. I didn’t want help because I got attention and sympathy for my troubles and change is hard and uncomfortable. I am a codependent in recovery.

Pick-mes are codependent. Codependents were raised to control others by changing themselves into what the other person wants in order to receive the love they feel they are lacking. (Masking) If you look at narcissist criteria and codependent criteria they are strikingly similar. The only difference is that codependents have the capacity to empathize and can dig themselves out of this personality trait. But THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE THAT HEALING THEMSELVEs. I am currently working on myself for this problem with therapy, reading every book I can on this issue, not actively dating and analyzing what I really like and don’t like.

ifhewantedtohewould · 2022-01-24T11:50:59+00:00

Of course it is, most of us used to be pickmes prior to finding FDS and are thankful to have found this community. It’s worth it for the ones who want to be helped or to potentially open some others eyes so the info is in the back of their mind.

PickMes don’t want help or advice

I know when I was living a pickme lifestyle, I wanted help and advice, I just felt alone.

honeybadgerattitude · 2022-01-24T13:55:23+00:00

I came to it a different way. I was in an abusive relationship for years and it was actually a HVM that made me see the light. He didn't do anything other than be his HV self but I developed a crush on him and started to see the enormous differences between him and my NVM husband. It was only later that I stumbled on FDS from a link in another sub about these "crazy" women and found it made perfect sense to me. The difference is I was ready to wake up. Desperate for it in fact. It's only going to work if you get the woman at that point. Then it's totally worth it. I could have gone into another abusive relationship and I have a daughter who will now grow up learning how to avoid LVMs. Two sons who will learn to be HVM. That's worth it to me. I've messaged various women about FDS since and got positive responses and that's worth it to me. I'm slowly leading my friends towards the ideas here and that's worth it to me. But it might not be worth it to you. It's down to each of us to decide whether it's worth it or not. It's not a never or always situation.

DarbyGirl · 2022-01-24T12:06:29+00:00

I think it is important to remember that the solution is usually clear and obvious from those of us on the outside looking in. When you're in it, feelings get in the way - you remember what it was like at first, you pick out the good things he does, the "but I love him" features prominently.

Fear of the unknown, a lot of second guessing yourself and gaslighting of yourself happens too. Deep down they know what the right step to take is - I did - but taking that step is super scary and it's easier to stay in your known little bubble until you can't anymore.

Buggy1218 · 2022-01-24T12:30:24+00:00

I tried to help my ex best friend. It was more frustrating than anything. I didn’t try to be her dating coach or dictate her every move. But when she asked for my advice I gave her my honest opinions, and we talked about her relationships a lot.

Boy, did she not like that. Most pickmes just want to be told what they want to hear, not the truth.

It went from her ignoring my advice, to no longer asking me for it, to clear resentment when my own strategies landed me in a healthy relationship with my now husband.

When I cut communication with her, she had been with her new shitty FWB turned bf for almost two years, and I was engaged at seven months in.

fdsbeginner · 2022-01-24T11:12:39+00:00

If only worth it if it either she really wants to break free from the LVM/change herself, or she would have been in danger (for example she stayed with abusive LVM or some LVM asked her to go out to isolated places like hiking dates)

If she would not want to listen to any advice and stay stubborn, any words will not be taken and you will just waste your time and energy, arguing with pickmes, i have been there before both as adviser and as stubborn pickme

MissIncongruousNY · 2022-01-24T15:11:08+00:00

I wish I had an answer. I had a similar experience. A few years ago I went on a couple of dates with someone. He kept trying to get into my pants but I told him that I don’t just jump into bed with someone. He was divorced and had 3 kids already so I wasn’t that interested. But we did have a couple of things in common so I was up for the occasional company on outings if he could behave. I noticed that he mostly only messaged me during the day and rarely at night, so alarms went off. When I got flirty with him one day just to see what he would do, he sent me multiple pictures of his privates. Just what every girl dreams of. So, I blocked him on my phone and Facebook. A few days later I was looking at my FB messenger and I saw that his profile picture had changed to him and a woman. I did not realize that would happen with FB, but zI had not deleted his messages so he was still there. I then unblocked him so I could see who the woman was. I sent her the screenshots of his messages. She got back to me very upset and seemed devastated and said she had been with him every day for the past 3 months. Then the following day she filled up my phone with crazy threats, saying that I was a crazy stalker trying to ruin HIS life and I needed to stop stalking him. He messaged me as well.

I was told recently that they have a child together and are engaged. So, that is 4 kids for him now.

All I can say is that I’m this case, the “rescue” mission was not wanted. If it had been me, I would have wanted to be told. But then I’m not having some man’s baby out of wedlock.

Objective_Ad7771 · 2022-01-24T12:13:04+00:00

Some pick me's are just pick me's because they think that's what you HAVE to be to get a relationship. And some pick me's genuinely believe men deserve women for the bare minimum. There's a difference. Some of them are worth saving but never pressure them too much. Just put your advice out there and leave it. A person is responsible for their own happiness after all.

SwampDwellingPirate · 2022-01-24T12:17:45+00:00

Unfortunately, I think rescue missions are only successful with pickmes that are really, really hurt and tired. Pickmes are pickmes because they make excuses for men's behaviours and even blame themselves for their abuse.

Once they see for themselves how terrible men have treated them, and realize how tired they are of being mistreated, is when they will listen to us and give FDS a shot.

Trying to remove a pickme's rose tinted glasses by force or before she's ready never works. It's a shame that they have to go through hell and back, but if you try to introduce it before their time, they'll reject it and maybe create an everlasting grudge against it.

FDS is a no-bullshit approach and as much as we preach sisterhood and supporting other women, we don't coddle them and we call out women's misbehaviour. That's why it hurts women that aren't ready. They aren't ready to hear the truth yet.

I've had a successful rescue mission, and it's still a work in progress because everyone has their moments of weakness, but it was 100% worth it. I will never regret giving a woman that I care about this precious tool to prevent future abuse and build supportive community. We just gotta do it when it's appropriate. Most women here were pickmes or are recovering pickmes, and we can't give up on our sisters.

Japanese_Lasagna · 2022-01-24T13:33:11+00:00

Depends on where the woman is at and her general attitude in my experience. Usually they don’t listen at the time, but eventually a good number realize you were right all along. Some will continue to repeat the pattern regardless, but in my experience, these women have serious depression and self-esteem issues and are really dependent on others in general; a good number of them don’t even know how to drive. I have a family member I’ve been trying to get through to, and logically, she knows I’m right, but she is in that depressed/low self-esteem/dependent camp, so she stays where she is. Whenever she rants about her boyfriend now, I just say “You already know my opinion on him” and leave it at that. I’ve said my opinion plenty and am not going to waste time rehashing things indefinitely. If they turn hostile though, it’s time to end the friendship. It’s one thing for them to disagree and whine and claim the man isn’t too bad; it’s another when they turn hostile on you.

eatapeach18 · 2022-01-24T15:21:33+00:00

Can confirm. I tried to rescue a girl from marrying this scumbag who was flirting with me, asking me out on dates, sending me dick pics. And asking me to send him nudes. I sent her the screenshots. She left me on read and married him anyway. These idiots don’t want to be saved. Just let them be miserable.

Frogspocket · 2022-01-24T12:17:32+00:00

Sometimes it’s not worth it for your own personal mental health and it’s okay to step away. You can’t help people who don’t wanna be helped.

But typically it IS worth it because helping to liberate women is a worthwhile cause and although you might think you haven’t been successful it’s entirely possible that you’ve planted a seed. When I was a pickMe in my teenage years some older women warned me about my bf at the time and about my own behavior and I dismissed them as bitter and jealous 🤡 but years later their warnings re-materialized in my mind and became a roadmap to clawing my way out of the situation I was in

Ok-Performance5997 · 2022-01-24T12:20:37+00:00

I’ve DM’d a few women who’ve made posts to other relationship and “feminist” subreddits before. I don’t spend a lot of time doing it.

I never message paragraphs or try to debate them on anything, I just state something simply and link to a few fds posts.

I don’t even expect a response. I do it in hopes that at least, they read through it, so that it plants a seed in their mind for them to later consider.

katiekat0214 · 2022-01-24T13:03:04+00:00

As a retired teacher, let me offer a metaphor: in 26 years of teaching, I realized after just a few years that what I was doing was 80-90% planting seeds of curiosity, kindness, yes some English literature/writing/grammar, doubt, skepticism, how to be a better human, manners, etc. I was also watering the seeds planted from other teachers, and once, twice, maybe three times during my career would I ever see a student absolutely bloom.

That's what FDS is. We are here to offer help, feedback, some pushback, but ultimately, all enlightenment has to come from within. There have to be enough experiences, enough bricks in the wall and all of a sudden, a tipping point is reached and a woman has had enough. But where that "enough" is, and how much is "enough" is up to the individual.

Determinedblonde · 2022-01-24T13:26:50+00:00

As far as I’m aware, no they haven’t woken up.

No one helped me all the times I needed it, and most of the time, I am still meeting NVM and LVW and I’m getting tired.

FDS shows me that so many others really are not right, and I was gaslit all these years.

BasketLow8411 · 2022-01-24T16:08:14+00:00

To quote the immortal genius of Lin-Manuel Miranda: “what is a legacy? It’s planting seeds in a garden you never get to see.”

Just plant those seeds, sis. That’s the best we can do.

queen_azulaa · 2022-01-24T14:48:46+00:00

When I hit bottom pickmeshia behavior to the point I realized theres gotta be a different way I should go about love and relationships so I dont do this again. I got into the whole archetypes, astrology, pretty privilege, etiquette content, and finally landed on FDS. A special place on the internet who doesnt blame me for turning my "prince" into a "frog". A place that didnt blame me for not being pretty enough.

They have to hit rock bottom and seek change themselves. The codependence addiction is real. The rose colored glasses is real. 💖

MamaGia · 2022-01-24T15:08:37+00:00

Yes, I think so. All women will fare better once we stop catering to men.

gingerandlime · 2022-01-24T15:12:26+00:00

It depends how deeply committed they are to where they currently are in life. I’ve had to cut off a good friend because she feels that her intense commitment to self-disrespect is part of her identity (kink stuff, etc). On the other hand, a younger friend of mine and also my mother seem to be actively benefiting and growing in their self-respect and boundaries in part because I’m able to demonstrate those goals in my own life. You have to protect yourself first, though.

anadreamy2 · 2022-01-24T15:23:30+00:00

It’s worth to give them some information that is going to be helpful for them while they deal with their own issue and be willing to listen and support them but we still need to accept that not everyone is going to want to reflect on their problems and why they keep putting themselves in the same situations over and over again. So I would definitely want to help them and see them get out of whatever bad and abusive they may be but there’s a limit of how far I will go about helping them and if they’re not willing to accept that help I will just stop trying.

saragc92 · 2022-01-24T14:01:57+00:00

It’s not worth it to go over board. I often refer them to FDS and move on.

Nooo good deed goes unpunished as they say My life’s been less less drama free and loving it!

m00n5t0n3 · 2022-01-24T12:49:56+00:00

I think you can't generalize over that one instance

JulyParade · 2022-01-24T17:55:47+00:00

I'm going to keep trying but not go out of my way to do it. I thought I was getting through to a couple of Pickmes. They reached out to me so I thought they were ready. Nope. They backslide and are now in crappy relationships again. It's an addiction to them or they are only comfortable when being abused. I don't know. It's up to them to pick their self-respect up off the floor when they're ready.

daisy_0720 · 2022-01-24T18:53:06+00:00

I've seen women (non-FDS members) posting on this sub for advice before and occasionally I've been on the receiving end of some real nastiness when I give them FDS-aligned advice (that they literally posted on this sub for, so yeah, make it make sense). They've then gone on to bitch about us on other subreddits.

It's like these women are on fire and start getting angry at the women offering them a firehose while clinging onto their scrote who's literally holding the can of gasoline.

aquietsword · 2022-01-24T19:54:16+00:00

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I think resources and info should be shared, but don't stress yourself out trying to make someone understand. That part is done on an individual level when they're ready to listen. Helping shouldn't disturb your peace, imo. So simply sharing info and then leaving the situation seems to be a good middle ground for me.

WandernWondern · 2022-01-24T18:21:22+00:00

As a former pickme who had several ‘friends’ thst really didn’t say anything and just distanced? Guess what? I woke up and that distance will stay there forever because at my worst I wasn’t worth fighting for to them.

With that experience in mind, my rationale is this - if I ever find out a friend is a pickme - I’m telling her. Periodt. Come what may. I see 3 outcomes- she curses me and never talks to me again; she doesn’t say much but creates distance; or she says you’re right - thanks for being a friend and makes changes in her life. I’ll always be alright with any of these outcomes as long as I said my piece and tried to defend someone I called a friend.

All these mental gyrations, for what? If you care, have the audacity just like the fool who’s trying to take your friend for a ride. If not, ignore all of it and live your best life.

ExistentialJelly · 2022-01-24T23:50:49+00:00

My friend has convinced herself she can't get out of her current situation, even when my husband and I have offered. She keeps getting with these absolute scumbags because she has convinced herself she can't do better. It is so frustrating because the guy she is with right now is so infuriating, selfish, and is a total no ambition small-town loser who she is willing to throw money out for in a hope of a home and partnership. She is beautiful, intelligent, capable, and talented. It sucks to see her live like this, but she won't take up any offer because she doesn't want to be a burden.

All I can really do is offer every so often so she knows it is always an option.

_laufaeson · 2022-01-24T13:10:53+00:00

Personally I don’t think it’s worth it. People will only change if they want to.

europoor24 · 2022-01-24T14:04:44+00:00

Agreed. I think some effort is worth it, but after a friends lvm recently dumped her like a coward then the next day she tried to get back with him after she swore she wouldn’t then went for a walk and ice cream date with an abusive ex went that didn’t work.. I’m over putting in too much effort. People also have to want to change

w1tchyw0man · 2022-01-24T12:23:42+00:00

A girl on this sub commented on a post I made in another. She saved me from an abusive relationship so yes, it is worth it. I'm frankly grossed out at your assumption that pickmes aren't worth the trouble or that they need a shoulder to cry on pretty dehumanising. You're not better than them.

Carneliancat · 2022-01-24T14:04:20+00:00

Depends on the context, but generally, no. Pickmes can be an outright danger to other women. The woman in this example got her LV attack dog in on it, and that could very well pose a danger to you and your friend. An anonymous message from here to a woman in need is one thing, but as for getting directly involved with a pickme's business with her LVM, no. When she is ready she will seek. I will stay safe and lead by example, but I don't go out of my way for a pickme who could put my safety at risk.

Erocitnam · 2022-01-24T21:08:46+00:00

I feel like in my experience so far, that kind of spam / mile-a minute, highly reactive word vomit is something women do when they're in fight-or-flight or their ptsd has been triggered. I've watched my mom do it plenty of times. It's abusive to the recipient-- I'm not defending it. But I do think it's a sign of trauma, and it's not surprising women in abusive relationships have trauma. This can result in them being extremely defensive, touchy, reactive, and often delusional because that delusion is how they're mentally escaping from the abuse.

It is really hard to reach someone like that with advice. And you'll often get lashed out at for trying. I'm sorry that happened to you; it's really not fair.

To answer your question, I have to ask another. What ratio of success-to-failure would you consider "worth it"? (Same with the ratio of time and effort invested.) That's something you have to decide for yourself, but I think I can offer some points to consider.

It is incredibly hard work to attempt to save someone else from their own psyche and it's not your job. You don't owe it to anyone and you should always put your own needs first.
I imagine the success rate is low but possible. It requires willingness from the woman in question. As Dworkin said, it can be agony to be aware of your own oppression. It's only natural that some women would want to just shut their eyes.
I think success rates can be improved if you approach the task with a solid understanding of trauma, and by simply befriending the woman and peppering ideas in slowly, when she seems receptive. It may be best not to direct your focus on how the man treats her and that she should ditch him, but instead to build up her self confidence and try to encourage her to find autonomy and self-esteem again. She needs support, love, comfort, and a place where no one is judging her. I think this sort of "rescue" is always a lengthy and highly involved process, spanning years.

All that said, I think you did the right thing by telling that woman what he did. It's sad that she didn't care, and fucked up that she was rude to you. But there was a reasonable chance she would have wanted to know, so it was morally upstanding of you to tell her.

uwillneverfindmeirl · 2022-01-24T21:20:11+00:00

Nah, most people don’t want help- and they want to hear what they WANT to hear, not what they need to hear. That’s why the whole ‘bUt DiD YoU CoMmuNicate’ advice in relationship subreddits are bullshit most of the time. Applies to friendships too.

You can show that the path is there, but it’s up to then to take it. I don’t waste my breath and energy on people who don’t want the help.

spicyspa · 2022-01-24T23:17:39+00:00

Give them resources and a different point of view. After that, it has to be their idea.

lolmemberberries · 2022-01-25T01:35:02+00:00

I think you can only help someone when they want to be helped.

BongSlurper · 2022-01-25T02:31:21+00:00

I say it’s always always worth it. I uplift my sisters and meet them where they’re at regardless of their pick me ways.

I just keep my voice consistent that they deserve more and better, and a way to do that is building yourself up and setting standards. But I try not to judge or dismiss them entirely, because that shit ain’t gonna help.

We all learned through mistakes and failures. I don’t think there’s a single lady on this sub that doesn’t have a pick me cringe story in their past. I also believe if I had friends with FDS ideology around me sooner, I would have saved some heart ache.

So yes, always worth it regardless of the outcome. Lead by example. Even if there isn’t buy in right away, they know I’m there when they’re ready. Plus if I treat them better than their bf’s and they don’t even gotta put out for me that’s an eye opener too haha. I treat all my girlfriends like queens, and have the disposable income to do so because my partner treats me like one.

Meepnit · 2022-01-25T04:06:22+00:00

When I sit down and talk to the pickme (or "overly optimistic friend" ), I usually try to remind her of his awful behaviours (and explain how he needs to change them) and help her analyze conflicts they had together and let her realize he's not worth it.

I got to help my best friend that way. After two weeks of getting to know her I sat down with her and she spoke about an annoying thing her bf did that same day.

I gave her an example how a normal person would have handled the situation and enlightened her about his love bombing and treating any person that comes in contact with her poorly (he felt so intimidated by ANYONE who would speak with her and take her time away from hanging out with him).

She actually saw sense in what we talked about and she dumped him the next day 🤭

It has being 6 years from that glorious day and she keeps thriving 💗💗

ceramicunicorn · 2022-01-25T04:26:46+00:00

The podcast has a good episode on this topic, Lilith especially addresses strategy. Check that out.

san__404 · 2022-01-25T07:21:14+00:00

I used to be the dump-him friend and tried to talk about fds principles but I later realised that pickmes are dangerous not because of what they do but because of their fixed mindset.

The jealousy, the drama, the picking sides wasn't worth my time anymore.

ReadLearnLove · 2022-01-24T13:43:59+00:00

It is not worth trying to rescue or help or enlighten anyone. My age peer female relatives have the PickMe mindset, and to them, someone who does not have that mindset is merely a PickMe who is "not right in the head." That describes me, according to my sister, the gaslighter. Maybe younger women are different. I hope so.

happy_petite_spartan · 2022-01-24T10:53:50+00:00

Just ignore them, girls like that are not worth your energy. They’re low value and ‘pickme’ for a reason, it’s a negative feedback loop. You won’t wake them up. They need to figure it out themselves. Keep looking forward and up. Along the way you’ll meet girls who will actually cherish and benefit from your advice.

AphoticEnigma_ · 2022-01-24T11:59:43+00:00

Nah don’t help them, unless it’s a very close friend or relative and they come to you for advice

lilarose8 · 2022-01-24T14:36:12+00:00

I think it’s almost like addiction…people have to want it on their own and do it for themselves. Others telling them they need to stop drinking or stop using isn’t what gets them to stop.

I stumbled upon FDS by accident and the timing was just right, I was intentionally taking another break from dating after another failed short relationship post-divorce. I thought I need to take some more time working on me because no one ever sticks around so it’s probably something I’m doing wrong. Well this has just been so eye opening. I don’t know if I’d have been as receptive back when I was married or hung up on some guy who had used me and then discarded me. I can’t tell you how many times I read those “get my ex boyfriend back” garbage websites, it’s embarrassing to think about now.

I think in this case you did the right thing sending the screen shots to Mary. Maybe someday she’ll see the light but unfortunately you can’t see it for her.

MajesticSkyPachyderm · 2022-01-25T10:17:09+00:00

I think it's mainly about letting them know that there isn't only one path - the one of being miserable with an L/NVM - available to them. You can only come around to the truth when you're ready. It's like that saying: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". We show them the water, and when they finally realise they're on fire, and that's why it hurts, hopefully they turn to it. We need to be patient with them, but only if it doesn't impact our own mental health. If it's too much, walk away and protect yourself first.

missmex · 2022-01-25T14:57:57+00:00

Some are worth rescuing. But beware, if you present Info, they may reject it in hopes of “it might work out” and “struggle love” and instead dig their heels in and cling onto their cheating NVM scrotes. I am hoping Tik tok gets more women to raise their standards. I raised them after I was engaged to a man who started drinking too much and I decided I didn’t want to settle in any way shape or form anymore.

Title	Is it really worth trying to help PickMes?
Author	helena939392
Upvotes	459
Comments	74
Date	January 24, 2022 10:49 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/sbjhmt/is_it_really_worth_trying_to_help_pickmes/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/is-it-really-worth-trying-to-help-pickmes.1097837 https://theredarchive.com/post/1097837

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