Stop imprisoning women? Really?

Anterai · 2012-10-23T13:11:27+00:00

For the fairer sex,
/thread

Raunien · 2012-10-23T11:47:37+00:00

What in the hell? If prison isn't fair for women, then it isn't fair for anyone. Suggest xpost to r/egalitarianism

Sebatron · 2012-10-23T12:24:08+00:00

Don't imprison women? What hallucinogen is that guy on?

SSssssssssssheeeit · 2012-10-23T13:24:44+00:00

You know what, fuck it.

Women already get lighter sentences than men.

And women are guaranteed nearly every right in first world countries a modern society can give.

Yet, punishment, for when women fuck up, even the idea that women should be held to the same standard as men, is unfair.

I give up.

I don't care anymore.

Fuck society, fuck the "fairer" sex, fuck it all.

I mean really, what is even the point of continuing to pretend to give a shit when there are people like this?

Edit: and oh my god, just got to his "reasoning" for this idea.

Let me see.

Non violent crimes.

I'm going to go

Threaten public officals
steal large sums of money
break into homes and steal everything of value
peddle meth to middle schoolers
launder all that money I stole
trespass on high security government property
steal a car
and finally I'll discover and sell my governments secrets to opposing nations

non violent crimes, didn't hurt anyone RIGHT?

RIGHT?!?!?!

ashphael · 2012-10-23T14:45:49+00:00

Actually, the author makes some good points why many if not most of the female prison population in the UK should be released.

Now, apply the same logic to all male prisoners serving time for the same nonviolent crimes as well and I'm in. Otherwise, you're sexist.

nanonan · 2012-10-23T13:04:55+00:00

If this article is accurate they should be recieving harsher penalties due to the high number of repeat offenders. The idea that nonviolent crime does no damage to society or should be unpunished is absolutely ridiculous.

Tirnor · 2012-10-23T15:00:15+00:00

Victim Blaming!

Instead of telling the poor, overworked judicial system to stop imprisoning women, tell women not to commit crimes.

They way the article tells it, the innocent system was just asking for it... walking down the street in its long black robes.. just wanting to have a fair and impartial time with it's cases.

(Here's where I cross my finger and hope I don't have to explain or defend this obvious joke.) *edit for obviously misused pronoun suffix

AnthonyZarat · 2012-10-23T16:22:44+00:00

Here is an example of a woman convicted of a "non violent" crime, and not sent to prison. She led a gang attack against a random victim. The victim almost died. The female would be murderess was given a suspended sentence, because she has children. No jail time. That night, the female perpetrator led a string of violent gang assaults against random people, resulting in serious injuries and this almost-murder. An example of the "fairer" sex at work. She is a primary school teacher.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221296/Pregnant-teaching-assistant-led-gang-attack-stiletto-heel-male-night-clubber.html

megatuxracer · 2012-10-23T13:16:41+00:00

I couldn't get through the entire article, but I honestly don't expect anything else from that thing they call a news publication.

SteelCrossx · 2012-10-23T14:11:21+00:00

Well if he wants one of those then how about being bold and original: stop incarcerating women.

This made me laugh. Isn't that exactly what the case was when women couldn't vote? Women were immune from legal consequences because they were applied to her husband? That's not original, though maybe bold. Entirely counter to Susan B. Anthony's Feminism, however.

For the fairer sex, prison isn't fair and if successful these schemes could be used to reduce the male prison population and reduce the cost of the penal system for a government desperate to cut the deficit.

Essentially, ladies first. I'm glad this article admitted that this is a solution for non-violent men too, just sad it only appears obscured as a single sentence in the final paragraph. Also, I'm not sure he established why prison is unfair to women because they are women.

ENTP · 2012-10-23T16:51:51+00:00

Telling women that they deserve no punishment for their crimes is the opposite of equality. It tells them they do not have the capacity to be responsible for their actions. And why is a men's issue, incarceration, suddenly being co-opted by feminists? 93.5% of prisoners are men, and men receive much harsher sentences for the same crimes.

AnthonyZarat · 2012-10-23T16:06:36+00:00

Sexist feminist bigotry. The vast majority of male prisoners are also incarcerated for non violent offenses, and are no danger to the public. Women already have far shorter sentences for the same crimes, which partly explains why there are so few women in prison. Shame on this "journalist".

a_weed_wizard · 2012-10-23T12:03:05+00:00

Some of the feminists on reddit either believe or sidelene those views which already made their work, female prisons are just for show.

CertusAT · 2012-10-23T14:49:17+00:00

Any intelligent human being actually supporting this? I don't think so.

You break the rules you get the punishment everyone gets, that is the very definition of equality.

I want girlwriteswhat to do a video about this. Fucking insult to woman.

leesoutherst · 2012-10-23T22:04:36+00:00

I think I read a post debunking the "vast majority of the imprisoned are nonviolent offenders" thing a few days ago. It basically said that there is absolutely no statistical basis for that claim, and that people only say that because it sounds like it should be correct. Since they're women and couldn't hurt a fly, right?

ThePigman · 2012-10-24T01:11:42+00:00

"The vast majority of these women are in prison for non-violent offences and have never been a danger to the public."

Yeah, just like the vast majority of men in jail, you piece of shit.

Snooves · 2012-10-23T13:42:28+00:00

I like that he sees a problem with sending nonviolent "criminals" to prison, but dislike that he feels that not sending them to prison should be reserved just for women. How about we just stop sending nonviolent "criminals" to prison?

DavidByron · 2012-10-23T14:43:30+00:00

Because he has such a short resume on Huffington Post I am not sure if this is supposed to be some deliberately shocking way to highlight the idea that prisons don't work for anyone, or if he is a genuine feminist that seriously thinks prison is awesome for men but too cruel for innocent oppressed women.

He does comment about the "feminism of poverty" in the article to suggest that all women are really innocent anyway.

Also if this is by him then here he's saluting a change in British law to help women kill their husbands and get away with it:

http://inherentlyhuman.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/coroners-and-justice-act-2009/

Miracle_Fruit · 2012-10-23T14:58:00+00:00

Wow, even just the title of the article was enough to shock me with its bullshit. Good lord.

2012-10-23T21:51:52+00:00

Goddamn this sexist shit makes me rage. Now I DO agree with the idea of properly treating mental illnesses but it needs to be for inmates of either sex. Rehabilitation and job training during incarceration would do wonders as well.

generalchaoz · 2012-10-23T23:23:23+00:00

I feel as though one could make a similar argument by replacing "women" with "white people" and "men" with "black people."

2012-10-24T02:21:52+00:00

For example according to Home Office statistics up to 80% of women in prison in the UK have diagnosable mental health problems, with 66% having symptoms of neurotic disorders. Up to 50% report of having experienced physical, emotional or sexual abuse in their lives.

This data is absolutely useless without knowing the percentage of male inmates are also affected by these things. Without that counterpoint, it's just blatant emotional sleight of hand

The purpose of prison is surely to rehabilitate offenders and in turn make society safer however prison undeniably fails to do this. Women are also four times more likely to self-harm in prison and their suicide rate is significantly higher.

So... in other words, women in prison are about as likely to commit suicide as... regular men.

Peil · 2012-10-23T18:10:38+00:00

I just looove how it's labeled "Gender Equality" and "Women's Rights". So to be gender equal, we make it so only one gender can be punished. Riiight. And "women's rights"? Really? The right to commit a crime and get away with it. Fuck this guy, and the mangina he came in on.

Unenjoyed · 2012-10-23T16:22:35+00:00

I hope Vincent McAviney was trying to come off as a sexist imbecile, because that's how his article reads. Apparently, he and a few Durham University geniuses have an axe to grind.

Probablyathrowaway2 · 2012-10-23T18:49:44+00:00

I don't usually look at Men's Rights, but this is pretty fucking disgusting.

And on the realtively mainstream Huffingtonpost? Could you imagine...fuck it, you know the argument.

My-Work-Reddit · 2012-10-23T16:53:06+00:00

What about not imprisoning any non-violent offender? Sentence them to therapy or some other effective form of rehabilitation.

irishsnowday · 2012-10-23T16:17:43+00:00

If u want these women out of jail, tell them to stop doing crimes and disservices to society.

beema · 2012-10-23T22:20:01+00:00

The same (majority for non-violent offenses) is true of men...

2012-10-23T20:26:18+00:00

Amen, Pierce.

danielkuzmin · 2012-10-23T23:49:33+00:00

This has got to be some kind of fucking joke.

NativeKing · 2012-10-23T23:50:44+00:00

Is this Satire?

xionaxa · 2012-10-23T23:55:56+00:00

how are women the "fairer" sex? I think this guy has his bias goggles on too tight

GAD604 · 2012-10-24T00:37:16+00:00

So far so standard for Blair-lite, but he has also promised a "rehabilitation revolution". Well if he wants one of those then how about being bold and original: stop incarcerating women.

Implying that women who are criminals are incapable of violent, anti-social behaviour.

For example according to Home Office statistics up to 80% of women in prison in the UK have diagnosable mental health problems, with 66% having symptoms of neurotic disorders. Up to 50% report of having experienced physical, emotional or sexual abuse in their lives.

And the solution to this is to set them free onto the streets, where they can go off their medication at a whim, reoffend, rape, murder, steal, assault, vandalize, hurl physical and mental abuse, self-medicate and go into ever increasing lapses of severe psychosis, and nothing can or will be done about it because the fairer sex shouldn't be imprisoned.

Boy am I glad that the Huffington Post isn't a respectable publication.

TheMagicStik · 2012-10-24T00:50:23+00:00

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

.....

Wait... you're telling me this isn't the Onion?!??!?

martian712 · 2012-10-24T01:03:15+00:00

What the fuck is this shit? The world has gotten itself all confused. They've been "discriminated" against, so why don't we just stop incarcerating them? Now who's being discriminated against, fucking assholes.

buster2209 · 2012-10-26T18:18:48+00:00

Why don't women stop committing crimes then they wont go to prison? Or is that victim blaming?

2012-10-23T17:39:16+00:00

He has it backwards. We need to strive for equality. Women should carry 50% of the burden, a burden only new laws favoring women imprisonment can deliver.

Women making up only 4.8% of the population is an embarrassment.

friestogo · 2012-10-23T19:13:28+00:00

When Nelson Mandela was made President of South Africa he released every woman in jail who has a child under the age of 5 (I believe). A man was in jail who had a child under the age of 5 and sued based on sexism. Think he stood a chance?

2012-10-23T17:15:37+00:00

I fucking hate the culture of the UK.

Samccx19 · 2012-10-23T15:37:51+00:00

This is fucking stupid. Ok I don't like David Cameron and have compared him to various animals in my politics essays, but I'll credit him with the intelligence to ignore this bullshit.

AloysiusC · 2012-10-23T18:22:26+00:00

Nice trick!

1) First you skew the system so men are under more pressure to go criminal.

2) Skew the punishment so more men are sentenced to prison.

3) Use the minority of female incarceration to argue for abandoning it.

koeselitzz · 2012-10-23T20:16:33+00:00

Sexist "fairer sex" bullshit aside, I think this actually might be good idea (at least in the US, not sure about the UK) - if applied equally to both sexes. Here is a good argument for the abolition of prison:

Raise The Crime Rate

One of the essential things here for me is that the majority of rape victims in the US today are men who are in prison. This extremely serious problem is only one of the issues with the continued existence of prison, but it must not be swept under the rug. People nowadays constantly make jokes about prison rape, happily mocking the constant violation of millions of men, as though this were an acceptable state of affairs.

I am not sure if abolishing prisons is a total solution, but it certainly would lead to a rapid decrease in the number of rapes that happen in this country every year, and especially of the rapes of men. And there's no question that that would be a very good thing.

[edit: fixed formatting]

2012-10-23T20:20:38+00:00

Hahah. Well, let's just not even hold women accountable for crimes at all!

FridayNightHoops · 2012-10-23T20:21:19+00:00

You could make the point that people with mental problems won't be healed in a prison and the society not be better of once they come out, but that idea is genderless.

charlesbelmont · 2012-10-23T20:36:02+00:00

For those who feel obliged, tweet this guy at @VMcAVSKY.

2012-10-23T23:34:11+00:00

So... we shouldn't imprison women because most of the women in prison are mentally ill.

Given that most suicides are by men, I would argue that even more MEN in prison are mentally ill.

I just hate the whole prison system in general. All it does is....

1: Turn confused, misguided young people into hardened criminals.

2: Make people who are stuck in lives of prostitution and drug use into social pariahs, thus making it impossible for them to escape those lives. (Unless they have lots and lots of money)

3: Take one night of partying/mistakes and make it into a "black mark" that will follow you around the rest of your life, possibly making you unemployable and making you even more likely to go back to prison...

4: Give the poor a reason to commit crimes by providing free room and free food.

Yeah.. they system isn't fair for anybody, and is a parasite on society, mostly...

Liberhat · 2012-10-23T15:41:15+00:00

The whole argument that we shouldn't imprison nonviolent offenders is ludicrous. Repeat shoplifting, drug dealing, serious fraud, and tax evasion all cause damage to society. So why shouldn't people convicted of these sorts of offences be imprisoned? There are more ways to harm society than hitting someone in the face...

And I agree with the argument that gender should not come into play with how someone is sentenced. Justice should be applied equally, or it is not justice.

morningsider · 2012-10-23T21:11:18+00:00

British troll is effective

mikesteane · 2012-10-24T01:37:22+00:00

Lots of comments on this site. How about a few more of us put comments on the article itself?

Godspiral · 2012-10-24T01:43:29+00:00

How about co-ed prisons instead?

Its obvious from the article that prison is unfairly tough on people. If prisons were co-ed, prison rape could become an issue worth attention.

springy · 2012-10-23T18:07:58+00:00

"There is no evidence that prison works in terms of reducing the overall crime rate and 64.3% of women released from British prisons in 2004 were reconvicted within two years of release"

Doesn't that imply they should be kept in prison even longer, rather than not imprisoning them at all? They can't reconvict when they are still behind bars, and have demonstrated that they rush to reconvict upon release.

pondiki · 2012-10-23T17:37:19+00:00

This guy is a crack head

TenLink · 2012-10-23T17:50:45+00:00

Well, he is an idiot for his delivery. But fundamentally his opinion is "don't imprison non-violent offenders." Which I agree with. Especially if it is drug offenses. It is stupid to single out women in this opinion. Non-violent men and women shouldn't be imprisoned.

2012-10-23T19:25:33+00:00

When does the armed insurrection start?

Grapeban · 2012-10-23T12:22:05+00:00

Here's the logic behind this.

1) Most women shouldn't be in prison, because most women in prison have committed non-violent offences and pose no threat to society.

2) Most women in prison are seriously vulnerable,

up to 80% of women in prison in the UK have diagnosable mental health problems, with 66% having symptoms of neurotic disorders. Up to 50% report of having experienced physical, emotional or sexual abuse in their lives.

3) Prison isn't working

64.3% of women released from British prisons in 2004 were reconvicted within two years of release.

4) Prison is dangerous for its prisoners

Women are also four times more likely to self-harm in prison and their suicide rate is significantly higher.

5) And this is the really important point

Because there are far fewer women in prison, they are an excellent test group, if the plan is successful then the same can be done for men.

For the fairer sex, prison isn't fair and if successful these schemes could be used to reduce the male prison population and reduce the cost of the penal system for a government desperate to cut the deficit.

Community prisons, curfewed tagging and alternative sentences are what is really needed and the relatively small female prison population is an ideal test group for these.

6) And no-one is saying that no women should be imprisoned.

There is of course a very small minority of violent offenders who would still require custodial sentences

Title	Stop imprisoning women? Really?
Author	PierceHarlan
Upvotes	563
Comments	188
Date	October 23, 2012 11:45 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/11xwl4/stop_imprisoning_women_really/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/stop-imprisoning-women-really.1010723 https://theredarchive.com/post/1010723

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