/r/Incels has been banned... | PurplePillDebate

changeIsTheWay · 2017-11-07T23:49:58+00:00

So was wondering what do BPers and RPers here think about that decision?...

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I'm not really anti male, I'm anti reddit males who complain about women.

And you removed your blue flair because? If you where really such I would think what you where saying would be different. Instead you often make broad generalized (and well often unfactual) statements in regards to men.

I don't meet misogynists in real life.

I wager you have, just not out right noticeable ones. Nearly all men know to not say anything critical of women in public as its not PC. The only ones that don't are the men like Trump. But they are a minority. Hell I bet if you meet me in person and heard what I say about women you would call me one despite everything I say being true least for where I live. As were I live is where the very sort of women RPers and to some regard incels complain about actually exist.

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When did I admit to being a vapid misandrist? Vapid maybe, misandrist no. I love people and I believe in the good of people, including men.

But if red pillers want to go on record and say:

AWALT
women are manipulative
women branch saying
women have nothing to offer
women use men for their resources

Then I'm going to reply that:

men are manipulative
men branch swing
men have nothing to offer
men use women for their ressources
NAMALT

That's right, despite saying some "mean" things about men (none worse than what red pill says about women), I've remained the bigger person as I've consistently said NAMALT in numerous comments.

It boggles my mind that you guys find a way to call me the extreme one. Most of what I write is saying "what you say about women is also true about men" or "what you say about women is false".

I just can't agree with red pill. The women I know are upstanding, loyal, hardworking. Any guy can get casual sex easily and if he wants a wife he can easily get one who outearns him and will still clean up for him.

PPD isn't a manosphere safe space. It's meant for debate.

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[–] JustStatedTheObvious You Probably Won't Believe It. 2 points 3 points 4 points 8 years ago * (4 children) | Copy Link

You need to stop reading so much outrage porn.

The human brain is the most complex structure in the known universe. Not only did it take us to the moon, and then allow us to practically turn the entire world into our next door neighbors, but it invented a way to drug itself through limerence, and then figured out that even that was shallow.

In the real world -

There are almost as many warm and caring people as there are cold. There is wisdom to guide every fool out of their hell, if they would only listen.

If all that is good in the world, makes your inner 12 year old Ayn Rand feel insecure, then you're just another victim of politics in the Matrix. I'd recommend you stop taking so many black pill suppositories.

An overdose can get into your bloodstream and cause serious brain damage.

[–] oneprettycoolcat 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] JustStatedTheObvious You Probably Won't Believe It. 2 points 3 points 4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Animals do pretty amazing stuff all the time.

And? There are many different kinds of amazing things. Grouping everything together under "Amazing things", while giving us as much credit as insects? You know better than to mistake our species for a hive mind.

Also, complexity =/= good.

Oh, take THAT, strawman! I described a mixed bag. Is basic literacy another handicap you're struggling with?

we're all pretty much uncaring assholes if you strip away enough layers.

Yes, and that's why some of us work ourselves to death on behalf of others. "Wow, it'd be so great to get all that social validation after I'm burned to death saving this family. I'm scared/on autopilot, but those neurochemical rewards are going to kick in any second now."

Your line of bullshit would be more convincing if my family didn't need to struggle to avoid con artists taking advantage of our instinctive altruism - our first lesson is that not everyone is as giving as we are. Our second, is that not everyone will burn us, either. Right now, my life is pretty good, only because good people returned my good deeds in kind.

You're assuming a lot, given that I'm a feminist.

See my edit. There are just as many people who exploit feminist pessimism, as well. And I'm not sure how that's a defense, given how many people struggle to be decent feminists in the first place.

[–] oneprettycoolcat 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Saying that humans do all this cool stuff doesn't change the fact that we're still animals.

Yes, and that's why some of us work ourselves to death on behalf of others. "Wow, it'd be so great to get all that social validation after I'm burned to death saving this family. I'm scared/on autopilot, but those neurochemical rewards are going to kick in any second now."

Fortunately, people are also stupid. Culture is up there with basic biology in how much power it has to change our behavior.

Your line of bullshit would be more convincing if my family didn't need to struggle to avoid con artists taking advantage of our instinctive altruism

Alright Mother Theresa.

See my edit. There are just as many people who exploit feminist pessimism, as well. And I'm not sure how that's a defense, given how many people struggle to be decent feminists in the first place.

The reason I stated it is because you assumed I was some sort of "alt right" tiki carrying retard.

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As a taller guy, its always humorous (but also sad) to hear women adamantly deny the objective reality that shorter guys face, and cringeworthy to see them deny it to their faces. Its fine to be a slave to biological preferences, but one shouldn't let their desire to appear angelic interfere with their honesty.

The fact of the matter is a man who is 5' 4" will be considered with derision and disgust on approach (and well after it) almost universally by women anywhere the average height of men is considerably in excess of that. Even if his other qualities surmount that, that extreme disrespect will remain an immutable biological preference and will taint any relationship that follows unless the woman is statistically similar (a height to women that is the statistical equivalent of 5' 4" to men).

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t a truth bomb, it’s a bullshit bomb.

No one denies that height is attractive in men. That if there were two otherwise identical guys, one 5ft 3 and one 6ft 3, then the 6ft 3 guy will have an attractiveness advantage.

But it is only that, an attractiveness advantage. It’s not as said above....

The fact of the matter is a man who is 5' 4" will be considered with derision and disgust on approach (and well after it) almost universally by women anywhere the average height of men is considerably in excess of that

.... that’s just pure self serving defeatist bullshit.

Scurvemuch and Ercole are two posters here around 5ft 3 who do perfectly well. Who make up their height disadvantage in other ways that are also accessible to the short incels.

Everyone here knows guys this tall IRL that do fine with women.

I’ve even seen scientific research on female attraction to height which points out this is a serious factor for tall girls but height makes little difference to short girls.

No one is saying it isn’t a disadvantage, but every Male carries some disadvantage or other. It’s the view that this is an absolute bar that is bullshit. And the short arses don’t want to hear this, not because it isn’t true, but because this removes their excuse that their success isn’t their fault.

[–]SkookumTreeThe Hock provideth. 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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The fact is that women do not like shorter than average men. Take a look at this. They test what would make up height disadvantage in other ways. The thing is, there is little negotiation possible with deep rooted biological preferences in mate selection.

No the video is not proof, just an illustration and yes there have been numerous scientific studies on the subject with similar conclusions.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Look, your talking to an RP guy whose personal interests are all about Evo Psych and human instinctual attraction. I am well aware that the components of attractiveness are instinctive and not really subject to rational modification. I’m also perfectly well aware that women find height attractive. None of that is remotely controversial at all.

But the issue here is that incels present this as “women are just not attracted to short men” which is false. They are more attracted to tall men, or is true, but there are lots of other compensatory factors the incels ignore and that compensate for height, or are attractive in their own right.

Height is one fa tor of sexual attractiveness among about 20. And no man is attractive across all 20 things. Some have the height... but not the status. Some have facial aesthetics... but not dominance. Some have confidence... but not height. Etc etc.

Height is not uniquely prejudiced within this group (the RP alphatraits list). Just like any other component of alpha it’s attractive in its own right, but can be compensated for with other factors. A guy who is short but has 19 of the others in abundance will do fine. Just as a guy who has no status but the other 19 in abundance will do fine. Just like a guy with no social proof, but the other 19 in abundance will do fine etc etc.

Height is being used an excuse by short arse incels to not develop the other 19 because there is no point. And when, by so doing, they doom themselves to celibacy they do not say “See, because I have none of the 20 I’m unfuckable”.... they say “Waaaaah, it’s because I’m 5ft 3. Ignore all the rest of the things that make me unfuckable. It’s this one thing that is doing ALL of this.” And that is complete bullshit.

Short Doctors high in dominance and with good social proof do not have a problem getting laid.

Short drug dealers who ride a motorbike and get in fist fights don’t have a problem getting laid.

Short guitarists who play in garage bands and have confidence and game don’t have a problem getting laid.

HeightCels problem is not just their height (it’s a contributory factor, but not the only one).

Their problem is they are undateable fuckups who also happen to be short. And if they got tall they’d still be undateable fuckups as they get so much else wrong as well. Fixable stuff.

But fixable stuff that they never fix because they say it’s pointless to do fix, due to their height. And that’s nuts. If they fixed the other stuff their height would not hold them back.

Anymore than other guys are held back by the 1 alpha trait in 20 that THEY don’t have holds THEM back.

Height is not a silver billet. It’s one component among many.

[–]Grizzly_Sloth1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] TheGreasyPole Objectively Pro-moderate filth 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m not aware of such a “list”, however since you are a self-admitted TRP ideologue, it is probably focussed on the idea that vaguely defined “alpha” behaviour creates attraction from women.

No, it's largely focussed around the traits that evo-psych have found women are attracted to because they are markers of genetic fitness. These are (in no particular order).... Status, Facial Aesthetics, Height, Symmetry, Dominance, Intelligence, Wit/Humour, Linguistic Ability, Social Proof, Risk Taking Behaviour, Muscles, Ideal Weight, Game, Competence, Confidence, Ambition, DGAF Attitude, Musical Ability and Pre-Slection.

These are different from male providership traits as Evo-Psych identifies them, or Beta Traits, as RP calls them... which are traits that are attractive in a relationship candidate but not sexually attractive (Money, being kind to small animals, money, willingness to have children, caring, money and more money).

There is however a plethora of scientific evidence that physical appearance (facial features and body proportions) are disproportionally more influential compared to anything else in both sexual attraction and other social interactions.

No, actually. All the scientific evidence I am ware of shows that if there is one sexually attractive marker that stands out from all the rest it is Status. Not only do women rate this higher, but surveys of dating outcomes also show women preferentially prefer status. Whatsmore, when probed on which traits they'd compromise on over others... again status is the last one they compromise on, ultimately throwing "looks" overboard to prefer status.

I think merger-arbitrage even has a thread about this up right now.... where homely men dressed as doctors are rated as more attractive than the best looking men dressed as food servers/waiters ... Which is completely consistent with the rest of the literature I have seen.

You talk about the scientific literature, but you clearly haven't read it... so much as are repeating what other people have told you about it, in error.

If you have references for scientific studies that research the impact of these factors on establishing sexual attraction while controlling for attractiveness/appearence, I would gladly read them.

Well, start with Merger Arbitrage's thread.

Or you could have a look here.... a meta-analysis of human mating literature

http://web.simmons.edu/~turnerg/MCC/Matechoice2PDF.pdf

I'll quote you a sample...

meta-analysis of research published from 1965 to 1986 revealed the same sex difference (Feingold, 1992). Across studies, 3 out of 4 women rated socioeconomic status as more important in a prospective marriage partner than did the average man. Studies conducted prior to 1965 showed the same pattern (e.g., R. Hill, 1945) as did a more recent survey of a nationally representative sample of unmarried adults in the United States (Sprecher, Sullivan, & Hatfield, 1994). Across age, ethnic status, and socioeconomic status, women preferred husbands who were better educated than they were and who earned more money than they did. Buunk and colleagues found the same pattern for women ranging in age from their 20s to their 60s (Buunk, Dijkstra, Fetchenhauer, & Kenrick, 2002). This preference is highlighted when women make cost-benefit trade-offs between a marriage partner's cultural success and other important traits, such as his physical attractiveness (Li, Bailey, Kenrick, & Linsenmeier, 2002; Waynforth, 2001). When women are forced to make such trade-offs, a prospective marriage partner’s cultural success is rated as a necessity and other characteristics as a luxury.

[–] Merger-Arbitrage Triggermaster, Non-Pill, Cutting through the crap... 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Grizzly_Sloth1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You conflate sexual attractiveness to women (selection based on genetic potential) with the established fact that women prefer men with a high societal and economic status for a relationship (selection based on resources).

Of course women prefer to date someone who has a good earning potential – this is mere pragmatism - but you cannot conclude that these men are in fact more sexually attractive to women. Choice behaviour cannot be extrapolated to sexual attraction. In fact the sample you quote says exactly that.

dominance, Intelligence, Wit/Humour, Linguistic Ability, Social Proof, Risk Taking Behaviour, Muscles, Ideal Weight, Game, Competence, Confidence, Ambition, DGAF Attitude, Musical Ability and Pre-Slection.

Again slow me the research on the impact of these factors on establishing sexual attraction while controlling for attractiveness / appearance. None of the "how to become attractive" behaviour TRP describes has been demonstrated to be effectieve in generating sexual attraction.

[–] Merger-Arbitrage Triggermaster, Non-Pill, Cutting through the crap... 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is however a plethora of scientific evidence that physical appearance (facial features and body proportions) are disproportionally more influential compared to anything else in both sexual attraction and other social interactions.

Where's this research? Link directly.

I can show you meta-analyses which point to "access to resources" (aka status and money) is always sought out, as well as various looks-based traits. In Western societies, personality matches matter, too. (And there's what I consider the three pillars of attractiveness: looks, smarts/status and personality).

http://web.simmons.edu/%7Eturnerg/MCC/Matechoice2PDF.pdf

A decent overview, though in my opinion they miss other attractiveness traits which matter (like grooming/styling, which often rank the highest in apples-to-apples studies for "physical/looks" traits).

If you have references for scientific studies that research the impact of these factors on establishing sexual attraction while controlling for attractiveness/appearence, I would gladly read them.

There is a study which simply looked at dominance with the same guy acting differently.

http://land-of-angels.com/py1/sadalla-etal-1987.pdf

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If you can't get a look in then a lot of things are usually wrong with the person. Taking action to improve some of them WILL give them a better chance.

Let's say height is a factor. I know of several girls going out with people who are about 5ft 4. Surely that shouldn't be possible by what the heightcels say? Surely that one thing is enough to hold him entirely back and noone would even look at him? But it isn't.

Let's say looks are a factor. I know one guy who looks like a fat, nerdy cueball and yet he's fucked some really hot women because he's funny and has a great personality. Surely his extremely ugly looks, that one factor, should prevent him from even getting in the door? But it doesn't.

See how them guys didn't let the bad parts about them get in the way of making the most of things? Getting in the door is harder for incels, sure, but nearly everybody can work on things to make themselves more attractive. From the pics I've seen of incels they can all work on things and the VAST majority of them are capable of getting girls.

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What a dumb comment! Everyone wants to feel they are desirable. I know couple of guys who make good money and yet who are virgins. They could very well hire escorts, but what good is it of when you know the escorts only suck your dick cuz of the money, and not cuz they are attracted to you.

[–] darkmoon09 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–] BleepBlopBooB 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That's not a compromise. That's her realising what her dating level is. She can fuck hotter guys than you and be attracted to them. She can fuck you and be attracted to you as well. She's still attracted to the person she gets into a relationship with. How do you not understand that? Do you think she gets in a relationship with someone she's not attracted to? lol

Men fuck girls uglier that them who they still find attractive for easy sex. But then they will usually try and get in a relationship with the prettiest girl they can get who also has a good personality. That is their dating level.

There's no settling on either part. brb going to cry because my girlfriend maybe fucked some guys better looking than me. Me and my girl split bills in half yet you somehow think she's using a guy like me for financial reasons?

[–] darkmoon09 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] BleepBlopBooB 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] darkmoon09 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] changeIsTheWay 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–] changeIsTheWay 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]realityfactsnow1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're essentially telling him to demean himself by entering into a relationship where he serves a mostly utilitarian purpose to a woman who is not strongly sexually attracted to him. How would a relationship where he is a wallet for a woman looking for raw sexual attraction elsewhere benefit him? Moreover, how could any woman not willing to fulfill the inherent sexual aspect of a relationship deserve his support? It would be a dysfunctional relationship from the outset.

Why argue this point when you seem to recognize that its not really worth it? Why not just let go of your entrenched worldview and admit that he's right as you clearly hinted at, and that in his case a healthy sexual and loving relationship would be out of reach despite it being an integral part of the emotional experience of healthy human beings.

[–] darkmoon09 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 8 years ago * (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] darkmoon09 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

That doesn't help anyone nor cure inceldom because to escape inceldom one must actually receive genuine "love".

I really don't know what to tell you here because incels aren't likely to receive 'genuine love'...shitty as it is, they need to offer something first.

Secondly a long term relationship is based on many things not just attraction as most people would agree and so would I, BUT a relationship without mutual attraction simply doesn't work. It is literally asking to get divorce raped a few years down the road or end up as a poster in /r/deadbedrooms 2 years from now.

Right. So again at that point why not just make things easier for yourself and pay for women directly? They won't 'love' them the way you want them to, but is the alternative (paying for an non-genuine LTR) really any much different? With the latter you're basically paying her to pretend to love you. I think I'd rather just deal with women who are honest about the fact that they just want money as opposed to living a lie in some bullshit LTR so the sake of sparing your ego from bruising.

[–] [deleted] 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]darkmoon09 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

The problem is that society lies to men. That’s what creates anger and backlash when most incels learn that heard truth in one shot and can’t brace for it.

An honest question, do you think men would be better off if society was being brutally honest with them? That women largely don't care for 'niceness', that men are largely disposable, that they offer little value, that men have to exert effort to generate attraction, and that even then nothing is guaranteed and there's still a good possiblity that they'll come up short at the end of day even after putting in effort?

Do you think men collectively would be better off if they were hearing this from the get-go.

Also problem is that sexual success is an exponential curve. It’s not linear. So some people get literally nothing while others get exponentially more.

Life's a bitch. Or to be more specific in this case biology and modern gender dynamics are a huge bitch. Again, men are the disposable sex, so men are going to be the ones bearing the brunt when it comes to who lives a lonely sexually frustrating life and who doesn't.

It fucking sucks, I know. But i just don't see how anyone can somehow rectify it without infringing on women's right to choose their mates.

I really don't know of any large/collective solution, but again I'll ask you: would men be better off if this were all told to them on day one? I only see men becoming even more angry and depressed from that.

[–]oneprettycoolcat 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 8 years ago* [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

"just do this" "just get it" "just do that"

Why do people that provide "just simple solutions" ignore completely all the unacceptable sacrifices around it? Why do you think not wanting to sacrifice everything for something else to get better is not wanting to improve? Why is it ok for you to want your environment to change for you but others shouldn't expect that?

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type. 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type. 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

You're.... Not fighting, though. I mean, more power to you, but you are an internet warrior who's bitching about men getting a raw deal. Don't self-aggrandize. I never said equal.

Did you miss the lesson in grade school about Life is not Fair? It's just not. Somebody always gonna have it easier of harder. That's all irrelevant, though, compared to this-

You are not doing anything other than whining about how men have it worse and demanding the world change to fit your preferences. How in ANY way is that Alpha behavior, what's so magnificent about you that you'd like to rewrite the universal Code for female sexuality to benefit you?

Look, maybe you missed the lesson: in life, youre given a series of demographic cards that dictate how your life will go: race, height, gender, sexual orientation, etc. It's ON YOU to play with the hand you're given.

[–]Dweller_of_the_AbyssChill Pilled and likes Christians. Feminist Going His Own Way. 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type. 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dweller_of_the_AbyssChill Pilled and likes Christians. Feminist Going His Own Way. 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] planejane Remove head from sphincter, THEN type. 3 points 4 points 5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not a victim cause I don't choose to see myself as one. There's no individual wrongdoing OP is complaining of, no actual slight to his person. He just FeelsBadMan and wants to blame somebody else.

If he had a transgression committed against his person, I'd think differently, but this passive whiny BS does not help him or anybody else.

Do I get oogled? Sure. Do I care? No. If nobody actually does anything harmful to my person, I don't give a fig whether they fantasize about me tied up or naked. (I'd prefer not to know about it but it's not on me to censor somebody's thoughts or gaze).

Because I'm not a victim of my circumstance. They're what I was given (and, yes, I get woman points or what have you, but it's been no walk in the park in a lot of ways), and it's my CHOICE to live with them as I choose, and I choose not to see myself as helpless or inept at steering the course of my own life.

OP doesn't seem to want that, he wants the world to be steered towards him. Would that it were so, and we were all so lucky!

[–] planejane Remove head from sphincter, THEN type. 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In a perfect world I should be MRA... Oh no that doesn't work, this movement is buried down because it's apparently misogynist. :p

But nowhere in my comment I said I estimate myself as a warrior or something...? Your answer is weird to me.

Still, sharpening my perception, having other people listening to my POV and me listening to their pov is good enough to me. I'll just do my best to raise my newborn son with all the tools he needs to have a comfortable social life.

Did you miss the lesson in grade school about Life is not Fair? It's just not.

So we should just all shut the fuck up and accept that life is unfair while another group constantly complains and get their environment to change for them? Come on, don't be an hypocrite.

They even want lessons in school to tell men "not to rape". ;)

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type. 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok, maybe you've missed this in your time online, but WOMAN does not directly equivocate to RABID FEMINIST.

Aside from my time spent on PPD and in pill-related subs for an hour or two a day, I give only a passing thought to anything related to SJWism or gender dynamics, and that's the case for MOST NORMAL FUNCTIONAL PEOPLE. I mean, you want to talk about it, sure, there's a lot of interesting and perhaps productive conversations to be had on how to fix societal problems for men, women, blacks, whites, asians, whatever, but I really think you're suffering from confirmation bias with this whole woman thing. Also, to direct it back to your original comment I replied to:

Why do you think not wanting to sacrifice everything for something else to get better is not wanting to improve? Why is it ok for you to want your environment to change for you but others shouldn't expect that?

It's ok to WANT those things. I WANT world peace and a job for every person and healthcare and freedom to have any gun you want and all sorts of other beautiful things cause FREEDOM and MURICA and shit, but there's some big differences between yours and my approach to it, and why I think mine is better:

I don't think people are shitty or batshit if they think differently than me. Some people DON'T LIKE guns cause their brother's sister-in-law's aunt's kid got killed in a gangfight. That's a perfectly justifiable reason for thinking a certain way about them that differs from my own views and experience. Doesn't mean they're Hilary Clinton incarnate.
Everything in your comments we've exchanged seems to suggest that the WORLD needs to change to accommodate YOUR views in order for you to be happy. Regardless of who you are and what you want, that will never happen, and you're stuck in this circle of frustration cause you appear to be so focused on things that reinforce only your narrative. Man, there's SO MANY ways of looking at the world's problems, why are you choosing to focus on the ones that make you feel shitty? What gives you the authoritative right to decide ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE are just shitty people and they should be required to change their ways? Most folks of every variety are just tryin' to get by.
Let me preface this point by stating this is not a direct argument against AWALT. Sure, women are all similar in some regards. HOWEVER. You seem to assume all women think all men are rapists or that all women are rabid feminists or all women are on some hell-bent crusade to believe men should suffer. I see it in your comments to me--yeah, I've got boobs, but I'm not a feminist. I don't really care about campus rape issues. I don't really complain much about my life aside from "Man, I had a shit day." I certainly don't want or expect the entire population of men to change their lives to benefit me, as you seem to believe all women do. And....I'm pretty fuckin' average. Most of the women I interact with share those qualities--and I even live in a college town. Most of us just can't be arsed to take up the Feminist Torch or whatever cause we're too concerned with just paying bills and taking care of our cats/dogs/kids/friends/so's, what have you. I'm not saying AWALT isn't a thing, I'm saying OP, you should probably stop this weird projection of YOUR VIEWS onto ALL WOMEN ERRWHERE. Cause most of us honestly don't worry about big-life stuff like that cause our small-life stuff takes up so much of our time.

Maybe try cutting out the word "should" from your comments here. "Should" is a moral argument, not a practical or realistic one. To say someone SHOULD do something means they need to change their behavior, and a lot of times it requires a great deal of motivation to get entire demographs to do so. If you looked at the world as it IS and not what it ISN'T, and REALLY TRIED to hold back projecting the beliefs that every woman is out to make men suffer, you might not hate the world AS IT IS quite so much.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I really think you're suffering from confirmation bias with this whole woman thing. Also, to direct it back to your original comment I replied to

That is what I think of everyone who think I suffer from confirmation bias. It is difficult to tell who is right and who is wrong.

You think I consider every women to be like crazy feminists, I think everyone spread the point of view of their own gender, except men who often do spread female POV. This is why I see the society as mainly female oriented.

In the end this is about understanding the nuances. You think I consider that all women spread words such as "all men should die" or other obvious things. But it's not obvious. It is an accumulation, like cold approach, they aren't a problem if it's an isolate case, it becomes one when you're constantly being cold approached. Well, how I see thing is basically an accumulation of messages such as "this should change for women's sake" and "men should adapt if they're struggling".

I don't think people are shitty or batshit if they think differently than me.

I hope this isn't the impression I gave you. If it's the case, then I'm sorry. But generally that is the treatment I am given. People do not apply logic, people apply feelings, my logic doesn't check with their feelings, they brush my point of view off and label it deviant and irrelevant.

Everything in your comments we've exchanged seems to suggest that the WORLD needs to change to accommodate YOUR views in order for you to be happy.

Let's define me as monoromantic polysexual. At 20 I was fairly convinced I was a deviant and I had to hide myself. But as I grew old, I asked several men, and even the least sexual all eventually showed me they work just like that. Lot of men are not polysexual by choice or by constraint, but by human nature they are completely polysexual. You can still claim this is a confirmation bias, but you can't deny that, if NAMALT, then Enough Men Are Like That anyway, you have proof everywhere.

Man, there's SO MANY ways of looking at the world's problems, why are you choosing to focus on the ones that make you feel shitty?

You're thinking my life is my comments on reddit. That's not the case.

What gives you the authoritative right to decide ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE are just shitty people and they should be required to change their ways? Most folks of every variety are just tryin' to get by.

My comments were about toxic masculinity, which is spread by everyone. So I don't know why you say that.

You seem to assume all women think all men are rapists or that all women are rabid feminists or all women are on some hell-bent crusade to believe men should suffer.

I have a more varied view on how women think. The best I've seen are women on PPD who understand how men work and what they have to go through. But even though they're very open minded and have seen lot of different points of views, they still hardly understand from where most incels/socially inapt men come from. Most women here still do think men live in the "rapist/pushy" extrema of sexual behaviour, and see TRP as potentially making it worst.

The two extrema of men's sexual behaviour is "extremely open" to "extremely closed", the goal is to be in the middle. The extremely closed feels like totally unknown, and people who never lived it do not understand what are the causes of such behaviour. These extremely closed men need TRP.

Apex fallacy on men is still very common in here. So, just imagine what it looks like outside where people are less open minded, more psycho rigid.

I know everything looks like my word vs their word. I can't help myself to be confident about what I see, everything showed myself in other domains that I have better perception than others, and that I spend more time watching and thinking than others. I don't think I'm lacking empathy that much because I can understand most feelings of the other gender, while every woman I talk to seems unable to relate to any of mines. I've been raised by women, I've seen them, I've been told to act like them, to think like them. I've been a friendless, a friendzoned, an orbiter, an incel, a try hard, a seductor, a boyfriend, an husband, a complete jerk, a submissive nice person. I've learned to get into women's skin to understand what was wrong with me. I've been in most men's skin and can relate to most men's feelings. How can I believe I have a bias, when other women do not show any hint of understanding for men and do not have any incentive to understand them, to change, or anything? Most of what women serve me is always "women are perfect, men have to adapt" kind of agenda. I'm not talking about women who are mean, who are feminazi, I'm talking about normal women who act like men owe them.

But how would you know yourself? You don't notice these things, they seem normal to you.

Now, sure, I don't know you, maybe you're a very reasonable person. And if you are then I would appreciate to talk more with you. Maybe you'll challenge my view (yes it happens), but sometimes there needs to be more details for that.

[–]Butt-Factory 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type. 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type. 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Man, location is SUCH a big part of the SMP. America is BIG. Politics, culture, and values vary so much. I live in a middle-American college town with scads of cheap, drunk college pussy. Demographically speaking, we also have more dating-aged women then men so the availability of men is just miniscule.

Part of the reason I stopped dating was that 35+ yo men in my area have no motivation to get hitched and have kids cause they're still getting laid. I'm passingly attractive but I want kids and family, there's just no men who want it cause things are good for them. Can't blame them, dudes gonna dude.

It's a total reversal of what I've seen described on the California coast, where a lot of TRPrs and Incels post from. Even chubby nerds do alright here. They're not swimming in pussy, but they can find a 4 or 5 to clean up after them and give them sex on a semi-frequent basis.

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why would they get banned?

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mass murderers and massacres, justifications for pedophilia and rape, blatant racism and other unseemly shit.

"INCELS ARE ALL RACIST SEXIST RAPIST MURDERER PEDOPHILES"

This shit is literally a pattern at this point.

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[–]DebatesNotBans 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Please tell\show me what kind of content most people DID have problems with.

For what it's worth, people obviously DO know that murder is wrong. They arent saying "st elliot" because he murdered people, but because in his manifesto he talks about somewhat relatable topics.

Also he murdered 4 MEN and 2 women. If anything, he'd be a MISANDRIST because of that.

roasties comment, I have no idea what that actually means

I'll explain, but you have to keep an open mind lol.

You know how women (and men) insult men for their penis size, and shame some men for being virgins? Well, some women's vaginas\lips are very loose and\or saggy. Their genitals resemble "roast beef", hence the name.

Now, the interesting thing isnt that incels even seriously believe this, it's that 1) some women assume this is from being promiscuous, and 2) how absolutely NUCLEAR offended some women get. I mean, I'll probably get mass downvoted myself and I'm just EXPLAINING it.

It's absolutely hypocritical. You'll see someone talk about "lmao small penis boy, no woman wants you" and everyone laughs, but then he says "lmao loose vagina, you're promiscuous" and EVERYBODY absolutely loses their minds and mass downvotes that guy.

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DebatesNotBans 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Comments about enslaving women into sex camps

Pure bullshit misinformation. They make things up so to people with no knowledge of incels, they seem like super bad evil people.

Comments about raping women

You know how tumblrettes have an obsession with rape? Like "stare-rape" or "neglect-rape"? This is the same thing. Only a tumblrette-like person would project so many sex\rape accusations on someone they dont like.

In effect elliot did kill more men than women, but you can't say that his motivation didn't stem from a kind of misogyny

I dont know if it was actual misogyny or just him being pissed off at how women act. Regardless, going "THEY WORSHIP A WOMAN-KILLER" is definitely an incorrect accusation.

Plus, a lot of people are very touchy and, if the person being criticized is a woman, they'll automatically think "misogyny", even if that has nothing to do with the fact that the person is a woman.

Also I'm not sure that it's necessarily the same groups getting offended and using virgin/small dick also an insult.

Well, regardless, it's still very hypocritical of reddit\society in general, no?

Short guy, small dick, virgin? "haha, make fun of the loser!"

Fat woman, loose vagina, slutty? "OMG YOU HORRIBLE MISOGYNIST RAPIST!!!"

A bit of a double standard eh.

As another aside, the aesthetics of a vagina isn't going to really be impacted by how many men a woman's had sex with, so that's also just wrong...

See, that's not even the point. Whether that's true or not, it's completely irrelevant, given how absolutely BATSHIT insane they go whenever someone brings that up.

[–] aznphenix 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You deny that any incel ever has joked about making basically concentration camps for attractive women?

And then wonder how much of the population actually takes tumblr seriously.

I mean the reality is they jokingly worship someone who seems on the surface pretty misogynistic. (I distinctly remember a story about elliot writing smugly that he threw cold coffee in some girls' faces because they wouldn't smile back at him and him wishing it was hot so it could have hurt them too - but maybe there's context I didn't read around that... though I really really doubt there's much context that makes that okay) I don't think most people say woman killer necessarily, but they paint elliot as misogynistic. Also I disagree that most people will label criticism of a woman as misogyny. A very small fraction of the population will. Some will be a little bit liberal with their application. But most will not.

How is it hypocritical of 'society' if it's two different groups.

who the fuck goes batshit insane on that? It's still not the majority of people, or even women I'd bet. Maybe they'd show disdain for bad taste in humor at most.

[–] DebatesNotBans 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You deny that any incel ever has joked about making basically concentration camps for attractive women?

Someone making a joke doesnt mean that the community does the same. Nor does it mean that the MAJORITY of the community does the same. This is where places like inceltears go wrong. They pick post that's got like 2 upvotes\comments, or take posts out of context.

And then wonder how much of the population actually takes tumblr seriously.

Tumblr doesnt get anywhere near the amount of hate. And tumblr-type ideals have way, WAY more success in the mainstream. Just look at them branding whites as racist, or men as sexist. That's literally the same as people claiming trump supporters are automatically racist white supremacist nazis, or that all incels are rapists\etc.

I mean the reality is they jokingly worship someone who seems on the surface pretty misogynistic.

So what? It doesnt reflect on someone's character. You know Hank from Breaking Bad? Makes "race" jokes all the time but he's a super cool dude.

Also I disagree that most people will label criticism of a woman as misogyny

I guess not "most people", given the amount of people ignorant to the subject, but a considerable amount of people voicing their thoughts DO claim anything critical of women is misogynistic.

How is it hypocritical of 'society' if it's two different groups.

Because "society" in general jokes about it when it's men, but is outraged when it's women.

Plenty of "small dick" jokes in TV and movies, nobody cares.

One mention of how "promiscuity is not good" and everyone loses their minds.

who the fuck goes batshit insane on that?

Well, I could pull up screenshots if you'd like. People get irrationally angry at it. They'll IMMEDIATELY jump to "small dick" or "virgin" type shaming, and generally act very much "defensively insecure" about it.

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–] DebatesNotBans 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I'm just saying that's how a lot of people operate

Whoever does that, then, is flat-out wrong.

and it's a lot easier to get them to even sympathize with your problems if you act more normal and the way they expect

Not when you're in a [hated group] that's considered "okay to hate", ESPECIALLY if you're criticizing people from a [protected group] like women. You can make the SIMPLEST, most OBVIOUS claim, and you'll get shot down.

"Women who wear low-cut shirts want to show off their cleavage" "NUH UH, IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE COMFORTABLE AND CONFIDENT THAT WAY, SEXIST PRICK!"

Every time.

They're allowed to vent on a venting forum. Just as reddit is allowed to ban that forum

I guess, but that's not the point. It's pretty morally hypocritical of them. Especially when stuff like feminism, twox, redditdrama, and similar subs exist.

[–] aznphenix 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] DebatesNotBans 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Most people are okay with them restated in a much less edgy way.

Not really when you're criticizing women. They'll go "har har, on march 12th 2005, you said "women are poopy", so you're obviously a misogynist and I'm not even gonna consider your point!"

No matter how you look at it, it's pretty much impossible to criticize something a woman does, unless the ENTIRE rest of the community already agrees with you.

Go ahead and try it. No seriously, do try. Try stating something like "Women who wear low-cut shirts want others to look at their cleavage" and see how mass downvoted you get. How would someone "restate" that in a less edgy way? Sounds pretty tame to me.

Dont even get me started on /r/AskWomen. It's "invalidation" this or "derailment" that, at any and all criticism.

Lol what company has 'morals'. They care about their bottom line.

I guess. But WE as people care about it, no? I mean, dont you see anything wrong about what they're doing? Are you 100% okay with it?

[–] aznphenix 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

"Women who wear low-cut shirts want others to look at their cleavage"

Well, for starters that's also not true. If it's hot outside and I'm wearing a tank top, my boobs are large enough that a lot of tank tops look somewhat low cut. Also I don't know that they care for you look at their cleavage specifically - if they're dressing for that kind of attention. But that's more semantics. Less edgy: Sometimes women who wear low-cut shirts want others to look at their cleavage.

People are fine so long as you're basically not claiming AWALT. (... when is that statement ever relevant in a conversation though?)

I don't go to askwomen, so can't say about that place.

I don't know that I particularly care about reddit itself doing any of this. If I cared that much about having complete free speech(not the legal kind) I'd go 4 chan instead. I'm not worried that I'll ever write anything inciteful enough or frequent places that could be marked as such for me to think that it'll affect me, and if it does I"ll abandon the platform tbh.

[–] DebatesNotBans 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Well, for starters that's also not true. If it's hot outside and I'm wearing a tank top, my boobs are large enough that a lot of tank tops look somewhat low cut.

Answer me this: What's so wrong about a short sleeved shirt? One without a cut, even? You dont see men with a square hole in the chest area of their shirts, so surely it's not a heat problem.

Bonus question: Why do women wear shirts (and pants) that tightly stick to their bodies, instead of wearing normal shirts? (and pants) Do you think those shirts arent intended to show someone's body off?

Also I don't know that they care for you look at their cleavage specifically - if they're dressing for that kind of attention.

Course they care. Otherwise they'd just wear a normal shirt.

Just like, if they didnt want someone to look at their butt\legs, they wouldnt wear skin-tight pants.

People are fine so long as you're basically not claiming AWALT

That's not my experience. Try going on any sub with any notoriety, and criticize ANY individual woman, and see how long your comment gets banned.

when is that statement ever relevant in a conversation though?

What's a good term to use when literally every single woman you've ever seen, heard of, or known, has acted in a specific manner, or done a specific thing?

If I cared that much about having complete free speech(not the legal kind) I'd go 4 chan instead.

Unfortunately 4 chan is, daresay, quite "cucked" these days. You're gonna get flooded by all kinds of shills if you try to have a serious conversation.

I'm not worried that I'll ever write anything inciteful enough or frequent places that could be marked as such for me to think that it'll affect me, and if it does I"ll abandon the platform tbh.

But you do realize it's heavily hypocritical, right?

[–] aznphenix 1 point 2 points 3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Uh, because it feels cooler to wear a tank top and still be socially acceptable? I mean, I'm of the opinion that breasts really don't have to be sexualized anyways and if men are allowed to be topless in an area so should women. I can and do wear a unisex tee a lot of the time, but if it's hot as balls I'm going to wear a tank top outside. Why should I have to suffer more just because some people think I'm whore like for some insane reason lol. And sure guys do - maybe not you specifically but guys wear wife-beaters all the time - they just don't have the assets that make it obvious that cleavage is visible.

Bonus question: what do you think baggier clothing looks like on a woman with larger boobs or hips? Do you think they look flattering at all? Why doesn't everyone just wear formless potato sacks - who needs to look good in any way? Why do people wear suits or formal clothing, or anything that isn't just a plain tshirt and simple pants - not even jeans? Of course most clothing is to make yourself look good, the question is whether it's inherently sexualizing or not. For some reason you think tighter fitting or form fitting clothing of any kind is meant to be sexual.

No I'm saying they care about their overall appearance not necessarily their about putting their cleavage on display. Some women clearly DO care about showing cleav, but that's limited to certain times & areas imo. Skin tight pants are comfy sometimes, like yoga pants. Skin tight jeans also feel comfy, as do leggings. Or like wtf are you defining as skin tight are we envisioning different things.

with any notoriety. So you're explicitly going to subs where people are more insane and saying 'this is reprensentative of society's general attitudes'?

Meh, then I find something else. My point is - there's always somewhere else I can have these conversations. Private corporations don't have to provide it.

What's hypocritical - for the company to do the thing they did? If you don't like it then protest. Don't buy reddit gold, tell other people to not buy reddit gold, use adblock, etc. Don't use the site if you think it's that bad. Either way, they're probably not going to catch people complaining about their actions in obscure subreddits - if you want them to fix something you have to get it to their attention.

[–] DebatesNotBans 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Uh, because it feels cooler to wear a tank top and still be socially acceptable?

Then why dont men walk around with "wife-beater" shirts all the time? Clearly it's not just the heat issue.

I mean, I'm of the opinion that breasts really don't have to be sexualized anyways and if men are allowed to be topless in an area so should women.

Regardless of how you claim to feel, women are still gonna sexualiz themselves, even if they're legally allowed to be topless.

but guys wear wife-beaters all the time - they just don't have the assets that make it obvious that cleavage is visible.

How come male wife-beaters dont have a cleavage-shaped hole, then?

what do you think baggier clothing looks like on a woman with larger boobs or hips? Do you think they look flattering at all?

I actually do. I find both the shape of clothing, and the candity very cool, but that's beside the point.

Do you think they look flattering at all?

Consider the following: Women (and men, duh) can wear perfectly fitting, perfectly flattering, and perfectly stylish clothes, that dont need to focus on "BOOOBS HERE" or "LOOK AT MY BUTT".

I mean, it's like you're saying that when women wear anything OTHER than skin-tight clothing, they automatically look awful.

Of course most clothing is to make yourself look good

"Looking good" isnt the same as showing off your boobs\butt. You dont see guys wearing crotch-tight pants to show off their bulge.

the question is whether it's inherently sexualizing or not.

My dude, if you're not sure about this, then you're not looking at it objectively.

Low-cut shirts literally have a HOLE in them SPECIFICALLY designed to show off the cleavage\boobs.

Skin-tight pants are SPECIFICALLY designed to show off a woman's butt and legs.

Some women clearly DO care about showing cleav, but that's limited to certain times & areas imo.

I have seen literally only ONE woman who publically wears something other than skin-tight shirts or cleavage shirts. She's fairly flat so that might be why.

like yoga pants. Skin tight jeans also feel comfy, as do leggings. Or like wtf are you defining as skin tight are we envisioning different things.

Exactly the ones you described. Regardless of their comfort, it's still obvious women wear them to show off their legs\butt. Same with skin-tight shirts.

with any notoriety. So you're explicitly going to subs where people are more insane and saying 'this is reprensentative of society's general attitudes'?

No, I meant subs like AskWomen. Try going on a post there and count the number of mod messages, specifically the ones saying "removed for derailing" and "removed for invalidation".

[–] aznphenix 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

... Some of them do? It's not all guys, but it's also not all girls that do what you claim either. Personally I run out of clothes sometimes because I haven't done laundry recently enough so I'm wearing clothing out of season. But like I already said, some women want to show off cleave, some women just have larger boobs, and some women like the overall aesthetic of wearing that outfit with no regard for the cleave.

I mean sure, women will sexualize themselves, it'll just look different. I'm just tired of people getting morally outraged over hints of cleav or people getting mad at women breastfeeding in public.

What the fuck are you talking about with cleavage shaped hole. You mean v necks? You realize there's a range of how low the neck goes down depending on the woman's body and the individual tank top too though right? Like https://cdnb.lystit.com/photos/e21d-2014/02/22/tibi-pink-tank-top-leather-and-silk-easy-v-neck-product-1-17888698-1-281030358-normal.jpeg isn't really sexualized.

Okay, but I think you're a minority opinion, unless our definitions of skin tight vs not (and baggy vs not) are very different.

I'm not saying that people look awful when they don't wear skin tight clothing. I'm saying a lot of skin tight clothing is easier to look good in for a good portion of the population than not skin tight clothing, and that largely has to do with stretchy clothing being easier to mass produce and have it fit lots of different people. Sure if we all had the money we could buy and get tailored perfectly fitting clothing that isn't skin tight, but most people don't.

Could you show me a picture of what you think well fitting but not skin tight pants (in particular, jeans) look like.

Again, what hole are you talking about. Most skin tight stuff is fairly comfy so I don't necessarily agree that they were made to be sexy. Also, most clothes look more or less sexy depending on the body type so I'm pretty sure so this isn't going to be fair to women with curvier bodies.

I'm again curious what your definition of skin tight is. Like is this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7j4AAOSw1KNZ15zD/s-l225.jpg

What do you mean regardless of their comfort. So what if a fat woman is wearing them, is she trying to show off her body even though men will come up and berate her for wearing them and 'subjecting them to her body'?

Ask Women is very strict, so yes you are going to an 'insane' sub. My point is you can't ask these questions in places where they try to curate and moderate content fairly strictly, of course you'll get pushback.

[–] DebatesNotBans 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

... Some of them do? It's not all guys, but it's also not all girls that do what you claim either.

But it's MASSIVELY more women wearing tank tops than men wearing "wife-beaters", so my point still stands.

I'm just tired of people getting morally outraged over hints of cleav

It's not moral outrage, it's just a "red flag" that that person is signaling.

It's also pretty frustrating when people go "No dude, her boobs are nearly jumping off her shirt, but she toooootally just likes aesthetic! Why are YOU sexualizing HER!?"

What the fuck are you talking about with cleavage shaped hole. You mean v necks? You realize there's a range of how low the neck goes down depending on the woman's body and the individual tank top too though right? Like https://cdnb.lystit.com/photos/e21d-2014/02/22/tibi-pink-tank-top-leather-and-silk-easy-v-neck-product-1-17888698-1-281030358-normal.jpeg isn't really sexualized.

It certainly isnt skin-tight, but can you answer me why does it have a V neck? It strangely lines up with her cleavage.

Okay, but I think you're a minority opinion, unless our definitions of skin tight vs not (and baggy vs not) are very different.

Plenty of other guys have the same tastes. Guys are generally called things like "misogynist" for publicly expressing those tastes though, so you wont see many guys talking about it.

Sure if we all had the money we could buy and get tailored perfectly fitting clothing that isn't skin tight, but most people don't.

Oh come on that's not an excuse. Men's shirts and pants fit perfectly comfortably WITHOUT clinging to the skin and WITHOUT being tailored, but suddenly when it comes to women's clothing, NOW they're too expensive? NOW they need tailoring?

Could you show me a picture of what you think well fitting but not skin tight pants (in particular, jeans) look like.

https://i.imgur.com/rp1l8BB.jpg

That's EXTREMELY hard to find. Most non-skin-tight pants have a silly "hipster" design to them. This image of Ripley is (sort of) what I meant, though.

Again, what hole are you talking about.

V-necks.

Most skin tight stuff is fairly comfy so I don't necessarily agree that they were made to be sexy.

What does comfort have to do with anything? If it's a piece of clothing designed to show off someone's body parts, that's what it's doing, regardless of whether it's comfortable or not .

Also, most clothes look more or less sexy depending on the body type so I'm pretty sure so this isn't going to be fair to women with curvier bodies.

Fat women can wear flattering clothes too. And by "flattering" I dont mean just "skin-tight".

I'm again curious what your definition of skin tight is. Like is this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7j4AAOSw1KNZ15zD/s-l225.jpg

Yes, that's skin-tight. (No, dont be silly, I dont mean "bodysuit" skin-tight.) Look at how the shirt bends into BELOW the breast. How is that NOT tight clothing?

What do you mean regardless of their comfort. So what if a fat woman is wearing them, is she trying to show off her body even though men will come up and berate her for wearing them and 'subjecting them to her body'?

I'm pretty sure this doesnt really happen beyond catcall-type things, but anyway, I meant that, regardless of whatever "comfort" skin-tight clothes might have, they're still skin-tight to show off someone's body.

Ask Women is very strict, so yes you are going to an 'insane' sub. My point is you can't ask these questions in places where they try to curate and moderate content fairly strictly, of course you'll get pushback.

Okay, then let me ask you: What "woman-centric" sub do you think WOULDNT act like this? Cause I know TwoX does. And I know Feminism does.

[–] aznphenix 0 points 1 point 2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, wife beaters are associated with lower class/blue collar people where as tank tops aren't so I can see why that's true, beyond maybe some women wanting to show off cleavage. It's still not the vast majority of women wearing tanks to only show off cleavage tho.

Moral outrage refers more to other people not you. Small population but enough to be annoying. The bigger annoyances are the ones that get mad at breastfeeding.

There are some women that do that to show off cleave explicitly yes. But some of us will not escape it, some of us don't realize when we put on that outfit that morning - you're better off not making an assumption at least to anyone's face.

... You realize a v neck is just a type of neckline right? Men can wear V necks too? Certain styles of garments (say overlapping fronts on keikogi or jackets) will naturally create a v neck? Button ups can create a v neck when not buttoned up entirely.

Whether or not there are a lot of guys that agree with you in words, that is not how they act in action - watch what they do not what they say.

Some men need tailoring too. But yes, women have more curves. With more curves it's always more money and more tailoring. It's why guys who lift a lot or have extreme V shapes need more tailoring or have trouble finding clothes that fit. Stop talking shit about things you don't know lol. Depending on how far back you go, everything was bespoke or was more single size than now. But spandex makes it easy for women's clothing now - just make everything closer to skin tight. comfy too.

Those pants are pretty unflattering imo. I was thinking more like this: https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/strategist/2017/01/17/best-jeans-for-women/wrangler.w536.h804.2x.jpg but those are probably too skin tight for your definition. Also her top is still pretty much skin tight...

Comfort has a lot to do with what clothes people decide to wear. Uggs are unflattering but comfy and warm as hell so my mom wears them. Certain bras are more modest, others are more supportive, but it might be hard to find their intersection, so you go for support and comfort over form. Most people tend to look for a combination of form and function though and something like stretchy clothing for tank tops, shirts dresses all fit the definition. Should we avoid comfy things because of their secondary attributes? Are you claiming clothes only function is their form?

And they usually do that with shapewear and form fitting clothing. Maybe my shirt was a bad example. Is http://us.dd-atelier.com/Woolen-Dress-Scotland-1-285.html a skin tight dress in the top? Or just form fitting? And is it reasonable to have people pay 60-100 USD per dress just so it doesn't look completely skin tight or like a sad sack on us? Because I have found those are my alternatives when I buy normal OTR clothing unless I do a lotttttt of searching.

I mean, you can go ahead and doubt someone else's personal experiences (no, it was not catcalling, they were telling the woman they were offended that she was wearing yoga pants while fat basically and that she should go exercise... which she was doing), but don't expect sympathy if someone gets mad at you for doing that lol. They're skin tight to facilitate exercise. Please don't bike in baggy long pants. Or ballet, or any number of other sports where you need the clothes to be more like a second skin. Some people wear them outside of exercise because they're comfy. There's a tiny section of women that seem to live in exercise clothes and some of them are entirely about having a 'fit' lifestyle so it makes sense to a large degree if they're constantly exercising - I might agree that some small portion of these women might be for form, but for most women it's not really going to be worn for form - comfort for exercise.

Hm... I guess to be fair most of the women centric subs will have those same restrictions, because they're aiming to create a safe space for women. But it's the same with specifically men specific spaces too (TRP for example... I actually don't know what twoY or askmen are like tho), they're just a bit more rare in terms of necessity on reddit because most of reddit is already male and leans more towards male communication patterns.

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 43 points44 points45 points 8 years ago* (173 children) | Copy Link

When you ban discourse, you don't make the problem go away, you push people into more extreme positions.

You're literally making the problem worse. All the banning of incels did was prove their point about how they are oppressed.

incels are victims. Plain and simple, it is no different than going to the bipolar subreddit and banning them because they sometimes exhibit the behavior of being bipolar.

Women cause them pain and it wasn't them who fired the first shot. It was being ostracized by society as children and the people they cared for.

People just throw up the handwaving solution of "work harder to improve yourself!"

It is no different than rich people telling poor people to "get a job!".

Telling people who are oppressed in our society, "there is no more racism today!"

All reddit did today was confirm their beliefs and made the problem worse.

Incels need empathy and help. Real help, not handwaving solutions. Turning them away just leads to reinforcement of their beliefs.

It's easier to remove the problem from our view than it is to confront the problem.

When you try to silence them, ignore them, and oppress them, that is when they pick up the gun, vote Trump, or pick up the tiki torch. You are cornering a sick rat and getting surprised when they bite you.

[–]darkmoon09 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Ultramegasaurus 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Where are incels lashing out? Seriously, you're conflating several groups of men together for no reason.

The vast majority of mass shooters aren't incel. Texas shooter was married. Las Vegas shooter married twice. NYC driver married. Orlando shooter married twice.

Even fucking Elliot Rodger would be called a mentalcel on /r/incels for being a decent-looking and rich sperglord. 4 out of 6 kills were males, all of whom looked ugly enough to be incel themselves. He wouldn't fit in the sub yet is the closest (and only!) thing incels have to a mass shooter.

And if we talk about dangerous to women, typical thugs, who have ZERO problems getting women, are a lot more dangerous than some incels on an online forum. During the time it takes a Bluepiller to denounce guys like this as violent serial killers, a guy like this has probably hurt or even killed another woman in the US.

When it comes to real violence, incels are nothing to be scared of.

It's just pure hate of unattractive men and nothing else.

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[–][deleted] 8 years ago* [recovered] (24 children) | Copy Link

I'm in with /u/80_20 but what you do is true too.

But the problem is always the same: some of their point is right, no amount of improvement can really help, and gigantic effort is unreasonable for the reward.

And the message they're given is always badly formulated. Instead of telling them "We understand, you're unlucky, you were pushed aside, we recognize the double standards you talk about, but there are things you should try for yourself that could put you in a reasonable spot even though you were promised more", we tell them "Stop being misogynist! You're not a victim, everything is your fault, you have to work hard".

I am very often irritated when I talk here about disadvantages of being a man, my statements are brushed off and labelled "whiny", or ignored because men have a debt to women, virtual privileges or I don't know what.

And even though incels aren't helpable for most, there are still lot of valid point completely ignored that could help raising the next generations better. But instead we keep being in a never ending hate circle. The toxic masculinity is why they became incels and why they're kept incels.

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I've done what you think should be done many times only to get abuse shouted back at me. I've told them I know it's going to be harder for them than the average guy and have given them great advice but they don't want to hear it. Most people giving them advice do so out of the kindness of their heart but they get nothing but abuse back. This is when people start to get fed up with them. Only a tiny minority outright portrays them like how you did with your second statement. Most give very nuanced views and tell the incel they know it isn't easy for them. The trouble is the incel doesn't want to do anything to increase the chances of success. It much easier to say chad gets all the girls and there's no point in even trying. They just want to vent. The vast majority of them have very black and white views on everything. You can make some great arguments for them to better themselves but they usually don't want to hear it.

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[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The ban is not about oppressing involuntary celibate communities, the ban is about reddit controlling the content they want to host on their Web Site, which is perfectly fine. If it was actually about trying to oppress or silence the opinions of involuntary celibacy, those subreddits would have been gone a long time ago, there was posts advocating rape, violence and a whole menagerie of abhorrent content.

It's easier to remove the problem from our view than it is to confront the problem

It is also easier to write a virtue signalling reddit comment and make a flair saying "incel advocate" than it is actually attempting to do anything that requires you to personally sacrifice time or resources to do anything about this "problem". You have most likely done as much too help involuntary celibates as many other users on reddit, which is effectively nothing.

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[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

When you ban discourse, you don't make the problem go away, you push people into more extreme positions.

There was no ‘discourse’ on r/Incel/. It’s just a bunch of sexually frustrated men throwing around insults and blaming women for all their problems. It’s just like RP, but even more pathetic.

You're literally making the problem worse. All the banning of incels did was prove their point about how they are oppressed.

Lol. Incels are not oppressed. Does any sane person actually believe this? Women ignoring you and not wanting to fuck you is not oppression. It just means they don’t want to fuck you. Plain and simple. If someone is offering me bread, and I ignore them or I decline their offer, have I oppressed them? Wtf?

incels are victims. Plain and simple, it is no different than going to the bipolar subreddit and banning them because they sometimes exhibit the behavior of being bipolar.

Is this for real? How exactly are incels victims? Bipolar is a recognized mental disorder. ‘Unable to find women to fuck you’ is not a disease. Comparing incels to bipolar patients is just insulting. In fact, I don’t even believe half of the men on that subreddit were truly incels. They are only incels for the attractive women they wanted to date. If a fat, ugly woman was interested in them, they would most likely reject her.

Incels need empathy and help. Real help, not handwaving solutions. Turning them away just leads to reinforcement of their beliefs.

Incels don’t want ‘empathy’. Only few struggling men actually want empathy. We had another post addressing this, earlier this week. Saying they want empathy is just a smoke screen for what they really want, which is sex. And so if at the end of the day, all that women give them was empathy and no sex, they would still be unhappy and call themselves ‘victims’ or ‘oppressed’. And a lot of them would even get angry at the woman offering them just empathy, especially when she sexually rejects him after he misreads her empathy for sexual interest and tries to ask her out. This obviously defeats the whole purpose and makes women (and I guess, other men) less likely to offer them empathy. It’s a shitty cycle.

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How exactly are incels victims? Bipolar is a recognized mental disorder. ‘Unable to find women to fuck you’ is not a disease.

Speaking as someone with depression, most incels seem like they've got depression. It also seems like they're handling it the wrong way by blaming external factors. I've done it, and it never works. As soon as one problem is resolved, you find something else to blame for your depression. Depressed because you hate your job? Ok, quit that job - but now you're depressed because you're unemployed. Get a new job? Now you're depressed because you hate this job, too. Quit working entirely and start a business? Now you're depressed because you think you'll fail.

This is why some people still post on r/incels even after they've had sex and girlfriends. Because having sex doesn't fix depression. At some point you have to stop blaming external factors and realize your biggest problem is your own perceptions. That's not to say all your other problems aren't real, they are. But it's like you're focusing on scrapes and bruises when you've got a gunshot wound in your chest.

[–]darkmoon09 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No one is arguing that incels do not have a right to be sad or frustrated or whatever. Everyone’s issue with incels is that they cruelly insult women and blame them for all their problems. Is it a woman’s fault that she’s not attracted to you? Would incels prefer her to lie there while puking a little in her mouth, as he has sex with her? I highly doubt that. No one is physically imposing anything on them. No one is physically harming them. They are not dying because women aren’t having sex with them.

It's also rude and insulting to men who genuinely would like an LTR with a girl who doesn't have to be smoking hot. But even those guys can still fall into the incel bracket because that's just how things work.

No they don’t fall into the incel bracket. And this is just proving my point anyway. Like I said, a lot of them aren’t even true incels. They just aren’t attracting the kind of woman they want. You cannot be rejecting or refusing to date unattractive women and claim to be an involuntary celibate. Because by definition, your celibacy is, in fact, voluntary. And it’s so laughable because they complain that they cannot get attractive women to sleep with them, yet they want the women to sleep with someone (incels) that they aren’t attracted to? Lol!

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What exactly do incels expect society to do? No seriously, reason this out with me: what do they want society to do? Force women to sleep with them? I’m honestly not even trying to straw man this, I’m genuinely asking because at this point, I’m confused as to what they want.

If it’s a problem of food, we can reasonably expect society to create food donations and encourage others to give to the poor. In a way, society can even force its more wealthy citizens to provide food for the less wealthy ones. With shelter, we can reasonably expect society to provide shelter homes. With security, we can reasonably expect society to employ more people into law enforcement to crack down on crime. With all these basic needs for survival, there’s a solution. What, in your mind, would be the solution that society can provide for sexually frustrated men that have apparently ‘tried everything’?

[–]sketch162000 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

TL:DR Probably validation of the problem and resistance against the social norms that lead so many men to equate thier entire self worth with their ability to get laid.

....... Honestly, a lot of it is accepting that there actually is a problem, and then going from there. Let me give a counter example.

In my view, sexual issues for men can be seen as kind of an analog to body issues for women. Lets look at how society handles body issues.

First, people rightly see unrealistic/unhealthy body behaviors and mentalities as mental disorders and so resources are allocated to cousel women through these up to an including psychiatric healthcare.

Secondly, people turn the lens back on society, acknowledge that social norms and pressures can lead otherwise healthy women and girls down a self-destructive path, and then dedicate resources to alleviate those pressures and norms (eg widespread criticism of the fashion industry and unrealistic beauty standards.) There are huge million-dollar campaigns (Dove is a good example of this) dedicated to building body acceptance in wider society, reducing social pressure for women to look a certain way, and positive self-body images among women. And that's a good thing.

Men simply do not get this level (or any) support for sexual issues, which are just as damaging to a young man as negative body image is for a young woman. Really the only people who actually acknowledge male sexual problems as actual problems is the Red Pill. Aside from being wholesale villifed in society, the RP reaction to these problems are anger and rebellion as opposed to the more incel reaction of depression and hopelessness.

Now imagine if we treated incel the way we treat body dysmorphia, or anorexia.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TL:DR Probably validation of the problem and resistance against the social norms that lead so many men to equate thier entire self worth with their ability to get laid.

Is this TL:DR for your post, or for mine? I’m guessing that it’s for yours, but since you put it at the top of your post, it’s a little misleading.

As for the rest of your post:

Hm. I’ve never thought of it that way. I guess that could be a solution. So basically, what you’re suggesting is society wide empathy. Sort of like how society makes being less than ideal body weight sort of okay by pushing body acceptance and all that? But you do know that, most of these incels don’t actually want empathy. For example, imagine a man went to a female ‘body acceptance’ forum and made a comment about how all women are beautiful and they should celebrate their bodies, all in an effort to show them support and empathy, how do you think such a man would be received? Now, compare this to a woman going into an incel forum to offer support by saying how being an incel is not something to be ashamed of, how being an incel can still be attractive or alternatively, how they should try to find happiness in something else other than their sexual lives, so that they aren’t too depressed by the lack of it. How do you think such a woman would be received? Be honest with yourself, do you really think that an incel that hasn’t had sex for a year or more and is sexually frustrated wants to hear from a female about how it’s okay to not be having sex, especially when he’s not getting the sex he wants from her?

My point is that the solution for incels goes way beyond just empathy. These men, might (minimally) appreciate the empathy and/or acceptance, but what they really want is sex. Preferably with an attractive woman. There’s no way that society can help to fix this for them without significantly imposing on the rights of women. Now, one could argue that the body acceptance movement for women included pushing for men to find bigger women more attractive, in order to date them, and so that these women could also find partners, but there’s a difference in male and female attraction. Men are generally attracted to a larger variety of women, than women are to men. RP is grossly exaggerating with the 80/20 notion, but there is some mild truth to it. So by pushing the female body acceptance movement, men were more pliable to viewing these women as attractive. For women, it’s different. They are generally more rigid and narrow regarding the kind of men they find attractive. So if we pushed for ‘incel acceptance’ and adopted the “oh, it’s okay you’re an incel. It’s okay that no woman wants to have sex with you. You are perfect just the way you are...” kind of mindset, it’s still very unlikely to get an incel any closer to what he wants, which is sex.

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GroovyEFS 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]GroovyEFS 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

How does this pertain to the incels? They're not children getting bullied in the playground, they're grown men with responsibility to sort their own shit out.

That's where it starts. You're just seeing the results of a couple of decades of growing from that point. You didn't see their life up to that point and all the stuff they tried.

Anyone who tried to help them is told in no uncertain terms to piss off REEEEEEE. You can't help those who do not want to be helped.

That's why they chase you off. A decade and a half ago they tried to "improve themselves". You just see their current problem as if I happened yesterday. They literally obsess about it for decades. That's why your solutions aren't really solutions, they're literally the first thing they tried.

That's why they created the "take a shower" meme.

[–]GroovyEFS 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GroovyEFS 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]changeIsTheWay 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

When you ban discourse, you don't make the problem go away, you push people into more extreme positions.

Your literally making the problem worse. All the banning of incels did was prove their point about how they are oppressed.

+1

incels are victims. Plain and simple, it is no different than going to the bipolar subreddit and banning them because they sometimes exhibit the behavior of being bipolar.

They blame us when its not our fault. Our genes, which impact our upbringing and sexual success.

Women cause them pain and it wasn't them who fired the first shot. It was being ostrazized by society as children and the people they cared for.

Its not women, its genes. But we get more hurt since women love to LIE.

People just throw up the handwaving solution of "work harder to iimprove yourself!"

It is no different than rich people telling poor people to "get a job!".

And even then, poor people have a slight sliver of chance to better themselves. When you're ugly you literally are stuck with your bones.

All reddit did today was confirm their beliefs and made the problem worse.

Incels need empathy and help. Turning them away just leads to reinforcement of their beliefs.

It's easier to remove the problem from our view than it is to confront the problem.

+1

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not having sex is not the same as being excluded from society.

Usually if a person doesn't have sex they are also excluded from society. They are both one in the same.

Some ugly people have jobs, friends, opportunities, everything a society provides.

Now change "ugly people" to minorities. "Some minorities have jobs, friends, opportunities, everything a society provides"

See how different that sounds? Racists make the same arguments you are making.

Sex isn't a guaranteed human right, but that doesn't mean it isn't a need either.

Obviously not everyone agrees with you since they banned incels. They don't want to listen them.

some rape victims do talk about having partners who abuse them in order to make them relive their experience again and again as a form of punishment. Or they sleep with a bunch of men after. Rape victims fantasize about killing all the men in the world because the one guy who brought them pain. Victims don't rationally process what has happened to them always. They were broken by the thing that happened to them.

Incels were broken by the thing that happened to them. Just like rape victims.

[–]ppdthrowaway555 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]todayismanday 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Minorities are excluded from having rights. Rights to their own bodies, to get married (with someone who wants to marry them), to have kids, to walk alone in the street, to getting elected, and so on. Having sex is not a human right, or even a human need, since you don't die if you don't have it. What incels need is real social connection. And they will never have a real connection with a woman if they think they owe them sex, that they are inferior, evil beings, that they are sex objects, that they are useless, dirty, disgusting, subhuman, and so on. There is a huge difference.

Fuck no. Rape victims have many different ways of coping and none of them involve making a forum where they discuss how much men are subhuman, disgusting, objects, dirty, etc. They talk about themselves and their pain and how to deal with it, how to deal with the fact that they ofter were in love and in a relationship with their abusers, often for long years. It disgusts me that you really made this comparison. Rape victims are NOT the same as these misogynists who ENCOURAGE raping women! They are the victims, and incels were encouraging the very same crime! You don't know if some of them went out and acted on their fantasies. There is no "thing" that broke incels, just women living their fucking normal lives and not wanting to be intimate with them, as is their fucking right. Rape victims are broke by men who believe they are entitled to have sex with them (like incels) and disrespected their right to their bodies. Just apologize for what you said.

[–]IckyStickyPoo 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A victim doesn't talk endlessly about rape farms etc.

Women didn't deliberately hurt you. But you guys talk about rape farms. How do you think that makes women feel?

I'm genuinely sorry for anyone who feels on the fringes of society and rejected by the opposite sex. But I have no sympathy for the ones who have sicko fantasies of doing harm to people who haven't knowingly done harm to you. And that stuff was allowed in the incels forum. You had free rein to talk there - no oppression or silencing, and that's the kind of stuff you guys often chose to talk about. Rape farms.

It's not just incels. Trp is just as bad. They hate women, too.

So much hate for women, just for being women. Women have had had to deal with that hate their entire lives. Incel hate is just more of the same.

You want to talk about taking up the tiki torch and a gun? It's a wonder masses of women haven't done this - women who have suffered real and actual harm at the hands of men.

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

A victim doesn't talk endlessly about rape farms etc.

neither do most of incels. You probably deal with an incel on a daily basis and don't even realize it.

some rape victims do talk about having partners who abuse them in order to make them relive their experience again and again as a form of punishment. Rape victims fantasize about killing all the men in the world because the one guy who brought them pain. Victims don't rationally process what has happened to them always. They were broken by the thing that happened to them.

so of course an incel is going to obsess and fantasize about a place where his pain can be relieved. Why is a "rape farm" any different than a rape victim fantasizing about killing all (including innocent) men? Women have all kinds of resources to deal with their incident, incels have nothing and no one to help them. Incels have people actively trying to silence them.

Both are victims of something they did not cause.

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The men in that sub really didn't see women as people, going so far as to call women "femoids" and actually saying that we are another species sometimes. And, when you dehumanize people like that, especially with those hateful ideas in place, it's the perfect recipe for violent action against them. I know I'm picking a disproportionately extreme example here, but just look at any genocide in history and you'll see this pattern again and again and again and again.

They didn't just talk about initiating sexual violence (which statistically puts them at a higher risk of actually acting on those words anyway) but they outright recounted story after story of sexual harassment or violence. And then there was of course that incident last week.

Does the incel community make incels, or do incels make the incel community?

Honestly, I'd say a bit of both, but I lean towards the community making the incels a bit more. I think that the men in that community had some less than stellar ideas already and that the incel community applauded them and brought them out and spoon fed even darker ideas. It's a bandwagon effect that spiraled way out of control.

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been some really rapey things in that sub for a while.

Like what? You fucking love to talk about that, but when asked to mention threads, you guys NEVER answered.

It was starting to become a cult

Why isnt /r/inceltears banned then?

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encouraging each other to rape women and go on murder rampages, threatening people's families constantly with gun violence,

"INCELS ARE RAPIST MURDERING ABUSERS"

Literally a pattern at this point.

Name me ONE thread where that actually happened. ONE.

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[–]dylang92 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I made a comment a while ago that more or less describes how I feel about it.

"Fair, but do you think it ends at Reddit? There are so many other incel sites and different boards they comment on. 4chan, Voat, Sluthate, Lookism, Tumblr even, I'm sure there are areas on Facebook, YouTube. I'm not even counting all the sites on the deep web I'm sure they have. What are you going to do? Devote your life to stopping them? That's one my problems with this subreddits, it seems like the only reason they care is that it's just on Reddit and if it does go away( provided they don't make a new subreddit) it's still going to exists outside of Reddit. Hell, in fact it might just fuel their fire that the world is against them, that their "safe space" is taken away.

I agree that there are reasons to fear some of these people, although based on who they are I genuinely don't think they are capable as much as some of you guys think they are. However they've existed before /r/incels, and they will surely exist after it. This subreddit doesn't solve the problem, it's just a place to laugh, bully, and actually ostracize them more. This all just fuels their fire and makes it worse."

Essentially I don't think this really fixes anything, they'll just go somewhere else. It may not be reddit anymore, but there are still Sluthate, Lookism, and now there is even a website they apparently made.

[–]changeIsTheWay 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Princeso_Bubblegum☭ The real red pill ☭ 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NalkaNalkaActual Red Pill Man, not covert BlackpillTradconJihadi 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] Princeso_Bubblegum ☭ The real red pill ☭ -1 points 0 points 1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Title	/r/Incels has been banned...
Author	changeIsTheWay
Upvotes	39
Comments	742
Date	November 7, 2017 11:49 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7bhbx5/rincels_has_been_banned/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/rincels-has-been-banned.264962 https://theredarchive.com/post/264962