Slutshaming is objectively good (?)

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-01-13T12:13:41+00:00

Please check the post flair and repost your comment under the automod if necessary.

This should be reposted as a CMV. The question mark that you added in parenthesis doesn’t change the fact that the post’s body and most of its title is a statement.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-01-12T22:50:36+00:00

To carry over from the last one, what’s a “high body count” to you?

RorschachRosettes · 2024-01-12T23:20:18+00:00

Slut shaming on behalf of men doesn't work. Y'all cried wolf on that one, I've seen girls who've only slept with 3 guys get called a slut, I've seen women get called sluts despite having only one partner, I've seen girls get called sluts for having the audacity of being extremely sexual with their prude of a boyfriend. It's lost it's effect on women and I highly doubt its a power you'll get back.

Sluts get married, they have kids, they live happily ever after lives, despite the masturbatory level in which people fantasize about sluts growing old and alone. Moreover, despite what a lot guys on here suggest, its been my personal - and observed - experience that men ultimately love sluts. Men love sluts so much that women know they can be a performative slut and earn more money than they would with a regular job. I mean, who knew, a hot chick who knows her way around cock ends up securing a man eventually.

What does work, IMO, is slut shaming on behalf of women, but our reasons for slut shaming are very different from men's. For example, do I care if a woman is sleeping with lots of people? No. I mind my own pussy in that regards, and most women do too. But there are boundaries to be respected - don't fuck ex-boyfriends, don't fuck people's siblings or parents - basically don't use your pussy in a way that's going to fuck things up socially.

What we do care about - and what I find most healthy groups of women care about - is whether or not you're the type to fuck around with husbands and boyfriends, and whether or not you're the type of woman who's starvation for male validation is expressed sexually. I have absolutely no qualms slut shaming a woman who gets her rocks off fucking around with women's husbands, IME most women will also go there in that situation and not hesitate to slut shame. My feminism isn't inclusive of trash women who engage in trash behavior towards other women. If you're the reason someone's wife has to run, not walk, to the STI clinic, you're a fucking slut. Sorry.

Literal_Jesus_ · 2024-01-12T23:07:21+00:00

Lmao.

People who are concerned with other people’s sex lives don’t have a satisfying one of their own.

But I’ll be meaner to men who approach me. Wouldn’t want some mid dude who can’t get it in thinking I’m a slut. ❤️

MyLastBestChance · 2024-01-12T22:58:46+00:00

A similar argument could be made to advocate for slut shaming men…

apresonly · 2024-01-12T22:59:33+00:00

you'd have to show that shaming is an effective deterrant to the behavior you want to change, which to my knowledge has never been shown.

SilentFroggy · 2024-01-12T22:53:59+00:00

Would women choose not to be a slut if their first few relationships actually committed to them?

avpd_girl · 2024-01-13T00:34:17+00:00

But is it better for women? You talk about “society”, women make up 50% of society.

spanglesandbambi · 2024-01-12T22:58:56+00:00

Let's say it again you have no right to tell other people what to do with their body or pass judgement.

Safinated · 2024-01-12T23:31:36+00:00

Again, it’s lack of money and pregnancy that are the real disincentives to sex, not shaming

ArmariumEspada · 2024-01-13T00:38:02+00:00

Women don’t “control the sexual marketplace.” This dumb lie has completely permeated the modern discourse of sex and relationships.

Men aren’t dumb animals who are enslaved to their sexual desires, and are just as capable of turning down sex. And likewise women aren’t exactly the angelic, non-sexual, non carnal beings that this claim portrays them to be.

Men have just as much influence in the “sexual marketplace.” If OP was consistent, he’d shame the “chad” men for having sex, since sex is so much easier for them to access.

McTitty3000 · 2024-01-13T00:26:30+00:00

I wouldn't say it's objectively good, it's just ineffective, as far as " shaming " ( you can't be ashamed if you're not actually ashamed of what you're doing) it hasn't worked in a lot of ways in society, people fat shame all the time and yet we still have a bunch of fat asses walking around, people would shame people that use drugs and call them there was even a War on drugs that was a complete failure. What's actually good for society is people minding their own business and controlling the things that they can actually control, as long as nobody's hurting anybody, minding your own business and taking care of yourself and yours is what will cause the greatest peace of mind which is also a positive for society.

And you're perfectly within your right to not want to be with a promiscuous woman, in the most ideal circumstances, sure what you're saying here can be good just like the other examples I laid out, but people are going to do what they're going to do, if an adult is practicing safe sex, being honest and taking accountability for their actions I don't even necessarily see anything wrong with promiscuous behavior

Planthoe30 · 2024-01-13T08:02:42+00:00

I find it ironic that the same men who say they won’t date emotionally unstable women, advocate for causing emotional damage to women. The reason slut shaming was bad is it lead to sexual dysfunction in relationships. You can’t have slut shaming and a woman who will be your porn star behind closed doors that isn’t how life works.

If slut shaming exists then this is what you will get: men who have to cheat on their partners to get sex. Women won’t have the sexual experience needed to know their bodies or how to enjoy sex. Men will fail to understand their wives sexual needs and the breakdown of communication will lead to sexless marriages. Sex will be viewed by women as uncomfortable, frustrating and dirty because we are ashamed of it, because sex isn’t something we are supposed to enjoy it’s now an obligation. Women who have pre-marital sex with even one person are labeled sluts and will have varying degrees of mental illness when things don’t work out instead of being able to cope. The mental illness will make us worse partners because coping and positivity are surprisingly healthy??

Ylduts · 2024-01-13T10:45:38+00:00

Shaming is how many of my generation learned that Santa isn’t real. Shaming people isn’t necessarily bad, shaming bad ideas is arguably beneficial.

Freethinker312 · 2024-01-12T23:33:09+00:00

I do agree with you that promiscuity is bad.

That said, what do you exactly mean with "slutshaming" in practice? You said:

Non slutshaming: if we encourage women to sleep around.

However, the absence of encouraging women to sleep around is not the same as actively slutshaming,

If by "slutshaming" you mean stating that promiscuity is bad and giving reasonable arguments for that, that's fine. But if you mean scolding at promiscuous women and treating them like trash, forgetting about their humanity and ignoring what might have lead them to being promiscuous, do you honestly believe lots of (promiscuous) women are going to change their mind on it? It's much more likely that it will work coumterproductive, and that they are going to be angry and rebel against it. Probably encouraging chastity in a positive, friendly way will be more effective than discouraging promiscuity in a hurtful, dehumanizing way.

Also, a large problem in slutshaming is "once a slut, always a slut". Even if promiscuous woman honestly changes her mind, regrets it, and honestly betters herself and her life, she still will be treated like shit and forever looked down upon by a slutshaming society.

Another big problem with slutshaming as you and many others see it, is the focus on women, while giving men a free pass. If you for the well-being of society try to discourage both men and women from sleeping around, your message would be more effective because women would be more willing to listen to it, than if you only focus on women, while giving men a free path.

SecondEldenLord · 2024-01-13T02:09:09+00:00

Shaming any kind of bad behaviour is good. People usually would stop doing it to defend their honor or family's honor. Look at society now. Sluts are promoted now and considered brave and powerful, and now you have so many women being sluts and OF models.

KayRay1994 · 2024-01-12T23:08:51+00:00

for some reason you’ve decided that not slut shaming = encouraging sleeping around, which flat out isn’t true - the idea is you shouldn’t shame someone for sleeping around, this does not mean encouraging sleeping around.

Even then, for some reason, you seem to be running under the assumption that the only reason they’d have sex is for kids and somehow not slutshaming would mean women will have kids with bad men, so in which case i have to ask you, what makes you a good man?

arsynlol · 2024-01-13T04:24:57+00:00

The more women are shamed for their sexual partners the more picky they’re going to be. Slutshaming and judging women for their partners is only going to make them want to sleep with people with status. If you want women to be more open to dating/sleeping with the average dude you’d want to not make who they sleep with a big deal.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-01-13T05:25:27+00:00

Sluts and prudes don’t run in the same circles, anyway. If an uptight, inhibited, conservative man calls a promiscuous woman a slut, she’s just going to laugh in his face.

It’s unlikely that these two would even cross paths, and even more unlikely that either one cares about the other’s opinion.

Prudent-Conflict-557 · 2024-01-13T09:05:11+00:00

Slut shaming doesn’t have the effect you think it does. The only women who give a shit about that are the ones being abused by religion/old women on their way out. The rest of us? Don’t care what anyone else does with their pussy. All slut shaming tells us is that you’re mad you can’t get any. Can’t get any pussy so you get angry and call women sluts. It’s like the guy in our dms who tells us we’re so gorgeous and amazing until we say we aren’t interested and then his tune changes to “fat ugly slut”. We aren’t stupid.. we saw the switch up 🤣

The fact of the matter is, slut shaming just reflects poorly on men. You have a very low opinion of yourself and you’ve applied that to other men. You think men are disgusting and so much so that mere physical contact with them lowers a woman’s value. And of course you value women so highly because you can’t get one.. to the point that deify them as a Virgin Mary type of idol. Right? Surely they won’t touch you because they’re almost holy in their chastity.. and if they aren’t? If they’ve been touched by other dirty nasty men? They’re ruined. Sluts. And that makes them not wanting you alright.. cuz you “don’t want a slut for anything more than what she’s good for”, right?

The issue with all this is that.. no one else has to live in this fantasy world you’ve created as copium to keep from roping. That’s for you and the rest of the incels who’ve become so hateful they now own property in this pussy famine ravaged land of your own design.

The funny part too is that your theories about all of this simply don’t apply. Every time y’all say stuff like this a ton of women show up to say “uhh.. I’m a slut. Here’s my loving husband. You’re wrong”. The usual reply of “oh well he must be settling because he’s low value” is so dumb. Nah buddy.. he’s not low value.. your cope is just wrong. Sounds good in your head.. but doesn’t work outside of that.

Eventually.. enough anecdotal evidence is just evidence.

(Though I do agree with the commenter who said that women who pursue taken men should be called sluts. Breaking the code is slut behavior.)

Signed, Retired Slut with a “HVM” husband

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-01-13T00:52:02+00:00

You’re gonna get a lot of martial arts wutaboutdamendo in here.

I’ve come to the conclusion that people who compare men’s sexual strategy to women’s aren’t smart enough to realize that they aren’t even comparable from the outset.

TWCDev · 2024-01-12T23:45:57+00:00

I strongly disagree. I don't understand how anyone can value women based on how good of mothers they are to their children. In a world where we need less children not more, children should be the least part of most women's lives.

Your #1 is inherently wrong and reflects an immature way of thinking that probably reflects your views on women as well, as evidenced by our entire post. The idea that women are "settling" when choosing a partner that is less than "physical fit" probably also makes you think men are "settling" who have successful partnerships with women who are "less than your physical ideal". You can't even seem to understand the concept that most people choose their relationships based on a variety of factors, physical being only one of them. Who I enjoy at the strip club is not who I want to hang out with play video games and fuck. The women I know who enjoy male reviews or enjoy "thirst traps" on tiktok don't generally swipe right on dating the hot sexy guys because while they will have a one night stand with those guys, they don't want to "be" with those guys most of the time. Sure, if they happen to find out one of the guys is funny, emotionally stable, and has compatible political views, then they've hit the jackpot. But most of the women I know, think they've "won" if they have an emotional connection with a smart funny guy who is financially stable (even if the guy doesn't pay for anything) and is good in bed.

Mature people know that our bodies deteriorate with age, but our personality, career, etc doesn't and often improves with age, so the body is the least important requirement for a successful long term relationship (as long as it hits some minimum bar).

The majority of women I know who are in relationships, are with stable mature (means something different today, considering mature guys today own toys and play video games) partners of all body types. Some athletic, some less so, but most of them aren't unstable more than I'd expect most people to have. If women were to somehow start prioritizing physical appearance for long term partnerships, I think they'd be "settling" in a way that is worse for society than the current scenario where they "fuck for looks" (same as most humans) and date people they've formed deeper connections with.

Hard_Corsair · 2024-01-12T23:29:02+00:00

Your whole argument is based around "objectively good" meaning "less children raised by single mothers" but there are way better ways to accomplish that than slut shaming.

nnuunn · 2024-01-13T00:47:00+00:00

"This thing we did for thousands of years is good for obvious reasons"

"Lmao just mind your own business loser"

Classic Reddit moment in the comments

ericneo3 · 2024-01-13T03:24:22+00:00

I was brought up that you should shame bad behaviour, not encourage or reward it.

Shaming used to be used to disincentive the behaviour. However because so many women engaged in hook-up culture and a 304 phase they have put themselves into the position where they became what was looked upon in shame.

So to manipulate the narrative these women started using peoples sexual experience or lack their of as a means of personal attack or to invalidate an argument and it's been made socially acceptable by the media and other people choosing not doing the right thing and fight back against it. Most of the time it's women who call other women "sluts", as opposed to men. It's also women who tend to call men "incels" from anything to not liking their behaviour to disagreeing with their argument.

These women have become narcissistic hypocrites, they want to shame man whores but at the same time also shame adult male virgins. I really think it's a new low for our society now that we have normalized these women being allowed to bully and attack others for their sexual history or their lack there of without facing repercussions for their actions.

TLDR: You should shame bad behaviour, not encourage or reward it.

ATasteofTx214 · 2024-01-12T23:25:23+00:00

Slutshaming: If the measurement for a "good woman" is finding a husband and having children, the likelyhood that she will settle for a man that might not be her sexual preference but can help raise a child is higher, meaning more long term happiness for the individual woman, for the majority of men, and wellness of society longterm

This is today's reality. Women are shamed against their nature (sexual openness and exploration) and desires so they suppress to the point of resentment and shut down; or they cheat or end "good" marriage prematurely seeking her sexual preference

YetAnotherCommenter · 2024-01-13T01:44:22+00:00

Your argument is deeply questionable.

Firstly, what is your moral standard here? I'm not sure you're working even on some form of utilitarianism... you seem to think there's a deontological mandate for women to have children (and exclusively within a committed monogamous relationship with a man) simply Because They Should. What about the woman's happiness? How do you adjust for conflicts between the woman's happiness vs. the man's happiness vs. the child's happiness?

Not to mention, when you talk about duties to children you seem to leave the man out of the picture. Does he NOT have a duty to procreate?

If the measurement for a "good woman" is finding a husband and having children, the likelyhood that she will settle for a man that might not be her sexual preference but can help raise a child is higher, meaning more long term happiness for the individual woman...

If a woman settling for a less-hot man is good for her individual happiness, we wouldn't be in a world full of sexually-unsatisfied marriages.

"But we have birth control". Yeah and we have on average stupid people that dont know how to use it.

This is just completely untrue. The vast majority of people in the West know how to use birth control and have access to early-stage abortion if that fails.

Plus even the smartest person cant rewire their brain after having gotten sexual attention from the most attractive guys in the cityx500

Neuroplasticity is not magic, and this whole "women are psychologically damaged by every cock they take" thing is a misandrist mythology with basically no evidence. Not to mention, neuroplasticity impacts both sexes - why is there zero interest in researching if male brains are rewired by women's sexual attention?

Oh, and your entire theory fails to acknowledge an important reality: these days, most slut-shaming is conducted by women, so it is hard for me to believe that slut-shaming is really about "society's" interests. It is more likely to serve a perceived collective "women's" interest.

Key-Faithlessness-29 · 2024-01-13T06:50:13+00:00

What's wrong with people enjoying sex. You're just bitter you can't.

Good_Result2787 · 2024-01-12T22:52:55+00:00

Genuinely dunno if that is enough to keep the thread up, but I'll try to I guess recount a piece of what I had mentioned in the other thread.

I felt like as a "mind my business" sort of person I'd not openly shame someone for this, and you had responded that you also don't advocate calling people this (I don't remember the exact wording you used, sorry). You just mentioned, rather, that you have standards and don't want to date slutty people.

My response there same as here is that I think that's good and that standards are good and you're not shaming anyone. I would hope most would agree with that. But you'd posited that telling a mate that you broke up with someone over how many guys she slept with is slutshaming.

To me, that would not be what slutshaming is, but I am wondering if I am in the minority here and wonder about other perspectives. I think that's you just expressing why a relationship didn't work for you. It also doesn't really do what you'd ostensibly want slutshaming to do.

I think to shame anyone about anything, you have to make a direct, concerted effort mostly right to them about their behaviors or beliefs, and usually it has to be done something of an unpleasant way in order to evoke feelings of shame.

I think this is a different thing than just having and stating standards, although there are nice and not as nice ways to express standards.

SuitableStart · 2024-01-13T10:47:11+00:00

It's about AF/BB come on. If you are the Chad who fucked those sluts you wouldn't care.

jay10033 · 2024-01-12T23:29:03+00:00

Why not take it one step further? Go full Scarlet letter. If you can objectively define a slut, why not advocate for them to be banished from society? No job offers, no college, door dash and Uber eats won't deliver to them, Verizon and att won't offer them cell service, no Internet, banned from wifi.

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MassiveAd1026 · 2024-01-13T12:07:00+00:00

Your statement that men love sluts is false. (Adam22 is the only exception) The vast majority of men don't love sluts. A man will never love or marry a woman he doesn't trust.

As a man I can't commit to a woman who will jump into bed with any random guy who gives her sexual attention. She has terrible judgement and no self control. So I can never trust her to keep her vows. I won't even risk trying.

Title	Slutshaming is objectively good (?)
Author	Freddsreddit
Upvotes	0
Comments	203
Date	January 12, 2024 10:44 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/19585he/slutshaming_is_objectively_good/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/slutshaming-is-objectively-good.1242830 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242830

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