The manosphere doesn’t believe men should be putting effort into relationships.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2025-12-08T19:26:43+00:00

First of all, the "manosphere" is a bullshit made-up term to lump people who want better civil and human rights for men in with human excrement like Andrew Tate.

Second, I obviously can't speak for all those disparate groups, but I think my left-wing male advocates would agree that it's not that we don't believe in men making effort, but rather that we don't believe they should be making one-sided effort. If a woman expects to do the courtship equivalent of starfish sex, she can miss men with that shit.

boafus1417 · 2025-12-08T13:33:07+00:00

I’m not a red piller PUA type but generally the most prominent advice I see by them is to “get jacked and shredded, make a lot of money, become a top 20% guy, and stop being awkward”.

Not sure how that’s not effort.

ViolentShallot · 2025-12-08T13:07:09+00:00

Define "the manosphere", or your entire argument is completely undebatable.

IgorXY · 2025-12-08T13:12:09+00:00

If you have difficulty communicating and dont want to learn to communicate better, you certainly dont like relationships. So you dont get to feel cheated on when your fuckbuddy fucks other people.

Ffs, can you please stop posting the same thing over and over?

James_M_Croft · 2025-12-08T13:44:54+00:00

Effort and self improvement is the main thing that defines TRP.

Refusal of acknowledging it, in a pillosphere sub, is ignorance at best, and malice at worst.

No-Rough-7390 · 2025-12-08T15:57:51+00:00

That’s disingenuous.

The issue is that when a woman is really into you, the relationship runs pretty seamlessly. There’s far less bullshit that is parroted as normal because those guys typically were not even close to option one.

Also, the fact that you think sex is immaterial to a romantic relationship continues to be a tell.

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vanebader-2048 · 2025-12-08T16:40:26+00:00

Men who don't want relationships don't put effort into relationships

Well, duh.

You speak as if not liking/wanting relationships is a flaw of character. But men who don't like/want relationships don't see it as a flaw of character. They do what you describe in your post because that's exactly what they want, they want sex and no relationship. If you go up to them and say "that means you don't actually like relationships!" like it's some kind of gotcha, they are just going to agree with you.

Why does any of this matter? If you don't like the idea of casual sex and no relationship, just don't date those kinds of men.

TheRedPillRipper · 2025-12-08T22:34:32+00:00

the manosphere doesn’t really seem to give a fuck about anything that’s not sex related

Correct. TRP is simply sexual strategies. If it was relationship strategies, there would be merit in the OP. It is not.

Communication skills in TRP is viewed under the banner of social skills in general. So getting good at flirting. At reading the room. Or actively listening and engaging. It is beneficial to both dating, and long term relationships. How much effort one puts into using these skills? Is on the individual. It is that simple.

throwaway73737828 · 2025-12-08T13:16:09+00:00

1) Men dont want relationship because of the diminsh in return as time goes on. Second thing is, keeping a women and making her attracted to you at all times takes skill for men, its exhausting and men dont want to deal with constant challenge in a relationship

2) No we believe giving in effort, NOT LIKE BEING PERFECT THO. The modern relationships takes a enormous amount of work from men. It takes a perfect schedule to fix every weakness and amplify your attractiveness. You need to lock in super hard. Not only that, after you get the relationship you still need to put that perfect work in. Working is fine, but the amount of work we have to put in to be perfect is exhausting.

Ill_Requirement3366 · 2025-12-08T16:06:07+00:00

Speaking of communication: Not thinking someone’s repeatedly complaints is an enough to warrant change of any kind,

Do you believe complaints are valid and good simply because they are voiced?

Why is it that men complain about ultimatums their complaint deserves to be ignored then?

What about when men say women complain too much, women should hear that and change right?

Main-Tiger8537 · 2025-12-08T13:17:38+00:00

i as mra believe men should put in effort and i call out hypocrits...

Fickle_Friendship296 · 2025-12-08T13:35:33+00:00

Just more stuff that only the chronically online do vs what happens irl…

beautiful_falcon776 · 2025-12-08T13:16:27+00:00

Putting efforts means a lot of things. One such thing is being neatly groomed and being fit which also impacts a relationship positively

MisterFunnyShoes · 2025-12-08T13:25:52+00:00

It depends on what the individual man wants. But yea, you’re correct in essence. TRP is generally anti-marriage and is about getting laid.

PepebigD · 2025-12-08T14:26:51+00:00

You're right the Manosphere only works for short term hook ups, thats the main goal for a lot of men. When it comes to long term serous relationships, you gotta see beyond that

Cultural-Ad-8486 · 2025-12-08T15:29:01+00:00

>It seems the goal is really exclusivity when it comes to sex, not an actual relationship. Problem is the majority of women wont be fine with that. Because why be loyal to a person who doesnt give a fuck about you?

Exclusivity is literally the core of a monogamous romantic relationship. Without exclusivity, all other components are impossible.

>This is also a problem with laziness and not actually liking women, because thinking hanging out with someone frequently is effort enough is sad because that’s so casual

Seeing someone often is considered a basic thing for starting a relationship, whether it is friendship or romance.

>Hanging out and fucking is a fuck buddy.

Or does it mean dating someone and eventually becoming full-fledged partners?

>If you truly love someone, you should atleast be able to announce that you are in a relationship. If you have difficulty communicating and dont want to learn to communicate better, you certainly dont like relationships.

I actually completely agree, and that's why women should also be willing to declare their relationship. If she doesn't want to declare your relationship and even sees/sexes with someone else, then she's simply telling you she doesn't want a relationship and doesn't care about you.

>So you dont get to feel cheated on when your fuckbuddy fucks other people.

Of course, anyone would feel cheated if their partner was with someone else. Especially if their partner was poor at communication and didn't break up with them beforehand.

>Speaking of communication: Not thinking someone’s repeatedly complaints is an enough to warrant change of any kind, but then want to complain how women should have warned him that ignoring someone dozens of times will result in that person to avoid you. You can’t bother being mindful of other people natural? They have top give you ultimatums for you to pay attention?

Is this a complaint about actually solving a problem or just whining?

Because if it's about solving a problem, then I agree that partners should listen to each other.

As well as communicate with each other if one or both of them decide to break up. This is a fundamental part of a relationship—a declaration of its end.

>And like I keep saying, the manosphere doesn’t really seem to give a fuck about anything that’s not sex related. Because you have guys explaining why social skills dont matter because it didn’t result immediately result in a date. Not like having a social life is important in general. Oh, but they’ll explain how “sex is more than sex” and crying about sexless marriages. Also, thinking initiating dates or asking women out proves social skills is also proof of laziness.

Sex is a fundamental part of a relationship. Naturally, this is something that normal men and women who desire sex won't ignore, as asexuals are a vast minority.

And even RP doesn't ignore social skills, as far as I understand they just don't connect social skills and morality

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-12-08T16:30:10+00:00

Men shouldn't have to put in a lot more work at life or in relationships to pair with a woman of similar quality just because greater male thirst and higher female selectivity means that in a true free sexual marketplace there would be runaway male intersexual competition for women.

We can debate the extent to which this is true now, or ever. But this is an overarching point that men want to avoid happening.

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Kingcrow33 · 2025-12-08T14:08:29+00:00

And I can easily say the same about online groups for women. Some people suck.

MarioWilson122 · 2025-12-08T17:49:31+00:00

RP puts importance on a social life, it just mainly focuses on women, because that is the area that most men are struggling in. So it helps them get that part together. Since men would like to be able to have access to that. Which there is nothing wrong with, even though some women try to villainize it.

Also a sexless marriage is horrible if a man came into it getting sex and believed that he would continue to do so. Nothing wrong with being disappointed and even going as far as to ending a marriage, because of something that important being left out.

Kontrav3rsi · 2025-12-08T17:59:12+00:00

Ok, I was going tear into you, but that does no good except make the trolls salivate.

It’s an order of operations issue that you are having a problem with.

It’s a requirement of A, that B exists. If no A, there cannot be B.

The point you are making— and forgive me if this is incorrect, is stating until B there is no A. Im sure we’d both like a bi-conditional but that ain’t gonna to happen.

Then take into account the way that women communicate with men. Ever heard this exact conversation?

Man: What kind of man do you like. Woman: I want someone that’s confident but not cocky. Man: What does that mean?!??!? Woman: I don’t know…

What it means is that the woman wants a leader without giving up her ability to have a choice. A choice she doesn’t want to make because it might not be the wrong one.

Study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9944803/

She wants someone else to take accountability for her actions but she doesn’t want it to be her responsibility.

Fine. No problem, I’d be happy to do that because it’s going to be my mess to clear up anyways. But that implies you should give an opinion and not an equal vote.

So if you want someone that is a leader, should they not have certain qualities that they require for a relationship? Shouldn’t you have to qualify for that position?

Quick question, if all the PHD candidate programs out there said they required you to have a minimum bachelors, would you get a bachelors before you applied for the position? Or would you say, the position will accommodate me and then I’ll get the bachelors?

Then why is it hard to understand why we require piety before we would even consider you for that role?

Here’s the reality: Men (largely) believe in hierarchy, we know who our betters are and we rank them accordingly, as we gain status we gain inside that sphere and we all know it. The nerd is high school that people picked on goes on to get a degree and is wildly successful vs great looking homeless guy. Which of the two do you see more worth in; this is why we all see status.

Let’s say for a moment that you were the man and dating a woman and unsure if you want to move forward. Then your buddy shows you a picture of her making out with some other guy that you knew. HUGE L, you don’t come back from that one among your friends and peers. Zero chance.

So with that in mind would you be inclined to go through that pain or would you make it a priority that you kept your defenses up (which is something men have to do their entire lives) so your standing isn’t knocked down a notch?

We are like 20k years out of the bush, just how quickly do you want society to change? If you don’t want to comply with our requirements then we can just pivot to other women, again, would you long term date the hot homeless guy that doesn’t want to get a job? Or someone that can provide for you?

The_Forgotten001 · 2025-12-08T18:21:14+00:00

This reads less like an analysis of men and more like a vent at a very specific type of guy.

You’re right about one core point: You can’t demand exclusivity from someone you’re not actually in a relationship with. Partnership requires communication, reciprocity, and clarity — not just hanging out and having sex.

But the rest of your argument flattens a lot of different male experiences into one stereotype. There’s a big difference between:

• men who don’t want commitment, • men who want it but lack experience, • men who avoid vulnerability out of fear, and • men who genuinely don’t understand relational expectations.

Not all of that is “laziness” or “selfishness.” Some of it is trauma, insecurity, or simply never having been taught how to communicate emotionally.

You’re right that loyalty shouldn’t be expected without effort. You just lose the nuance when you treat every relational struggle as entitlement.

Livid-Log7463 · 2025-12-08T21:27:59+00:00

These are just complaints of dating someone far more relatively desirable, if they were men at the same equivalence then they’d be happy to be in a relationship, anything else is an overestimation of self or underestimation of the guy.

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2025-12-09T00:19:57+00:00

It's hard to get a quality relationship if you can't get s3x. Most men have a hard time getting s3x which is why that's the primary focus. Once you're able to get it, the relationship part should fall into place easily so there's no need to focus on it. 🫶

OkOutlandishness6370 · 2025-12-09T00:38:28+00:00

I notice the fact that your post ONLY applies to good women paired with bad men, and says nothing about when good men are paired with bad women and every single one of the dynamics you described cuts in the opposite direction.

There are some women out there who are just as selfish, lazy, self interested, annoying, awful, hyper judgemental without being that great themselves, and are the female equivalent of everything you're describing.

Barely-moral · 2025-12-08T15:14:24+00:00

Why be loyal to a person that doesn't give a fuck about you

Excellent question. Here is the answer. And it is the answer to any question that goes "why should I do X?"

Because every other option is hell in comparison.

So it is on me to find someone that has zero acceptable options or to create an environment in which every other option is unacceptable. Either way the result is the same. Being loyal to me is the best option available.

ThatBitchA · 2025-12-08T15:34:29+00:00

Yup.

The goal seems to be to get a relationship doing the least amount of work.

They refuse to pay for first dates. They refuse to care about her career/degree. They refuse to plan anything.

They just want a relationship without any of the effort to get one or maintain one.

It's why all the manosphere dudes are single and/or divorced and/or dating someone much younger.

The RP charlatans aren't successful relationship men.

It's hilarious to me how lazy some men are about relationships and then whine when no one wants to be in a relationship with them.

TermAggravating8043 · 2025-12-08T13:19:42+00:00

The manosphere believes in male superiority at all time, with women “females” not counted as real people in the world where their views, rights, freedoms and choices are taken seriously.

They want women dependent on a man at all times to give him purpose and want women as an addictions to a man’s life. What she is, mother, wife, whore is his choice depending on how pretty/useful she is.

The focus on sex, particularly fir this sub, is the majority of men here are teenage boys who’ve watch too much porn

Subsidence82 · 2025-12-08T15:03:33+00:00

A better way to put this is… The redpill encourages men to be emotionally distant with women.

Its a toxic philosophy. Hurts men as much as it hurts women.

anonymousppd123123 · 2025-12-08T14:40:26+00:00

This is also a problem with laziness and not actually liking women

what's there to like exactly? my newest friend is a data scientist who also played college basketball and is deep into moneyball stuff. how are women ever going to compare in having an interesting mind compared to successful men? youve done yourself a big disservice with hypergamy forcing men to be so much better than you to have a shot

And like I keep saying, the manosphere doesn’t really seem to give a fuck about anything that’s not sex related.

that's the reality of any group around X interest. if you go on a bodybuilding forum everyone will have other non overlapping interests the only thing in common for the whole group is lifting and eating chicken and rice. Im on a couple childfree pages, same thing, you have your "i just bought a new porsche" people, check out my new miami condo, my vacation to italy, the posts with the most engagement are complaining about crying kids in a restaurant or something everyone in the group can relate to

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-12-08T16:44:33+00:00

Good. Let them eat cake

Title	The manosphere doesn’t believe men should be putting effort into relationships.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	0
Comments	318
Date	December 8, 2025 1:03 PM UTC (8 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1phburp/the_manosphere_doesnt_believe_men_should_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-manosphere-doesnt-believe-men-should-be.1568348 https://theredarchive.com/post/1568348

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