Daily Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-11-27T01:00:21+00:00

This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc... in...

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Although Women's Rights movement was already a thing and as we later saw women did change their lives and lives of others mostly for next generations. As any social activists rarely see the peak of changes while they're alive themselves.

We wanna go that route? How bout the 8.3 - 14 million (depending on sources) Soviet male soldiers that died during WW2... does that count as 'change their lives and lives of others mostly for next generations'?

These feminists studies discount so much of what men do and sacrifice in order to paint this ridiculous caricature of men being inhumane. It's always dumb shit like 'did they react to pictures' or 'how they respond to minor shock'.

That said, on this front I forsee lots of 'progress' due to feminism, as there are FAR less men likely to risk their lives now than there was even 20y ago, let alone 50y ago. Go equality.

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I imagine part of the problem is that most gloves-off therapists may not see consistent business. They dance around things because they’re trying to make a living. People don’t want to pay someone money to hear them say “okay, turns out you’re the problem here.” But unfortunately I think that’s what most people need (within reason.)

And sure, the typical therapy fluff feels nice in the moment, but when you look back on all the money spent, and all the nothing you have to show for it…yeah, there’s a reason people resent that field.

So I think ultimately it’s a combo - you’re lucky to find a therapist who is willing to shoot straight, but you also have to be receptive yourself, and ready to take action. It’s hard to get both of those factors in synch, but it’s life-changing when it happens.

[–]death_by_1000_cats2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I'm quite responsive to hypnosis. So have seem someone who is skilled at that and addressed various issues. Self worth, confidence, self love, etc.

Shit that I used to view as "tactics" and "techniques" just became stuff that happened naturally and I am a lot happier as a person.

May not work for everyone though. And it takes a lot of introspection to look at ones self and identify issues. A lot of people will just find an external element (for a lot of RP guys, this would be women) and blame them instead. Blaming others for shortcomings is the status quo now a days and it is what mediocre people do very well.

Also in this day and age, dating is the only area where people can see that they are lacking in life. If someone has a job, a roof over their heads, why would they think "Oh I need therapy" or "there is something wrong with me"? It is only when you put yourself out there, that a lot of character flaws maybe highlighted.

[–]Castracani2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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The "intimidation" concept is stupid. Whilst I honestly admit I used to be insecure around women when younger (so sue me), later in life I have been told that I am "intimidated", when it was lack of compatibility and wanting different things in life.

Example: Dating some board executive of a large successful company. The woman was obsessed with her job (you would have to be to get to where she was, so understandable). However this meant she was rarely available, all conversation was about her job and she never did late nights as she needed to be up at the crack of dawn for another day of negotiating and putting out fires.

Sure if I was a male gold digger, this would be great. She had more than one car, when she allowed herself time off she went on luxury holidays. She owned a 5 bedroom house. And she was more than willing to pay for dates.

However for me, that is not what I am looking for in a relationship. Her being away/working all the time, means there is no relationship (in my eyes). So yeah... to me, not compatible.

But certain people afterwards said how I was intimidated by her. If I was intimidated by her, would I of even gone on dates with her?

Ironically, some of the people who said this, also complain when there partner is working a lot and when alcohol is involved they say how they wish they were single again.

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But the younger you are, the less likely you are to have them.

So 5 year olds?

We don't want anything serious with them.

That's a lie because those women are constantly in relationships. They're not good relationships, but they're constantly in relationships. Like I said in my other comment, men choose shitty lovers just like women choose "bad boys" and assholes.

. Not only are you in a tighter schedule to have kids the older she is

A woman is able to have 3 to 5 kids with her 30s. Besides, having kids too far in age can have its own set of problems, especially if the parents aren't rich.

They also have a shorter window that they'll be hot.

Who cares?

If you're only trying to get laid, it only matters if they're hot NOW.

If you're trying to get a relationship, you're going to see them become less attractive anyways.

So caring about age in that aspect nonsensical.

[–]TheJim664 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Correlating age with baggage is bullshit unless he's making the case for something very illegal.

How so? The more sexual relationships she has the more likely she becomes to accumulate baggage. This is obviously correlated with age quite heavily.

No true scotsman fallacy.

Not at all. But if you want call them relationships. So these sluts can be pumped and dumped or suck a dudes dick for a month until he gets bored of her. Such winners.

Happier now?

In reality, yes. They do

Do they? Are they as likely to do so as they did when they were younger? Do they have the same energy and motivation to do so?

Nah.

So he's shallow and he'd definitely be okay with those "not real relationships" with hot slutty girls littered in baggage.

He is a man. Men value looks highly. Shocking I know.

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BUT ITS NATURAL WHICH MEANS ITS FEMININE

This is a stupid argument. Most outwardly visible feminine or masculine things, other than bodies themselves, are socially created. Clothing, hairstyles, cosmetics, shaved/unshaved, shoes, etc aren't deemed "masculine" or "feminine" due to nature but because culture has decided so.

Women shave their legs because the razor companies wanted to get into women's wallets, but we don't have significant facial hair. So how to get the other half of the population to buy a product they have no use for? Run aggressive ad campaigns convincing them that the hair on their legs is gross. It ended up working very well.

Personally, I only shave my legs once every 3 months. There's no need to, it's so fine, small, and blonde you literally have to be 6" away to even see it. Pits and pubes I'll do once a month though because it takes a long time to grow back but is darker and slightly uncomfortable. Each woman and man can decide for themselves what they want to shave.

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That’s your take from this? Not that men are actually better, more caring and affectionate partners in the bedroom? Lol ok.

Now that you ask, Yes. That is my take of this. My first hand account as a woman who loves tells me that. Of course, if you feel men are better lovers and thats where you are most at home, you have my support.

But my comment was about comparing your partner to exes. You naturally can't stop competing with women (or trying anyway) so of course the point alludes you despite it being explained twice over. Am I sold people who dont listen are defacto better lovers? No. Does male obssession with sex so much so THIS happened to a relationship surprised me? Also no.

Sorry, don't see what makes someone so primitive all they care about is the next nut the more loving partner. One can love sex and still care about their whole, current partner.

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FDS have swallowed the Dog Pill.....

I've come across a lot of comments which say that if a man treats animals well, he's empathetic in general and won't tend to mistreat women.

It's an extreme theory IMO. A man who loves his pets doesn't mean that he's in the green flag territory or that he's empathetic, especially when we haven't taken into account how he treats other people and things in life.

I've seen and been with men, who are often "dog-lover" or "cat-lover" and the likes but still abuse their partners. To them, cheating, verbal, physical and emotional abuse, come naturally. They even go to the extent of murdering their partners but remember to take the pets away.

I can't think of any term to label such a behaviour, but it's definitely not empathetic. I'm not saying that one shouldn't look after animals, most importantly stray ones but what I'm trying to say is, men don't consider us as humans. We don't even belong to their idea of a hierarchy, let alone expect compassion, love and respect like they give to animals. It's extremely dehumanising.

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I think you’re making the mistake of thinking that feminism is proscribing advice or telling women how to live

Feminism is a scholarly study of institutions and how those affect current opportunities. Of asking and studying how women have historically been excluded from, discouraged from, certain opportunities. Of how current structures disenfranchise them

It’s not Dear Abby

Studying cultures is more sociology

But your point about whether women are being treated equally is important - and it’s the core. It’s why questions like “why are pink collar jobs always excluded from blue collar job conversations?” And “why are typically female jobs so devalued, both in terms of pay and respect?”

Those things don’t mean that blue collar jobs in general are held in high esteem, or that there aren’t disrespected/underpaid male careers. And it doesn’t deny those items

It’s just studying the side of it that is unique to women

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and where women in particular are increasingly alienated from the idea that motherhood is joyous for most women, is totally fucked up.

Its just a logical outcome to the state the society.

When all you hear is

relationships are something women want, its a burden for men
drop in value of marriage
every feminine contribution to the household is worthless
expenses you might end up fronting on your own
SAHM is a leech
loss of alimony
single mothers are a valid target for demoralization and abuse from young men
having a child makes you undesirable
having a child fucks up your body
so many men cheat when you're pregnant
healthcare costs, life costs with average men who cant or won't provide
lack of freedom
little to no support

Yeah, not everyone is going to say "sign me up". A culture cant continously devalue motherhood and degrade women and then expect as many volunteers. This isn't just the US either, I'm sure you've heard.

I couldn't imagine looking at the likes of team "50/50" and curse myself to the hell that is birthing a child for a man like that. Thats who women are surrounded with. Some of them are doing the math. There's a spike in a celibacy and a spike in the rejection of motherhood. Not all, just a notable amount.

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Regarding the thread about intimidation, OP is 100% correct. Women are intimidated by men, not the other way around. Women say men are intimidated by them because they are projecting. That's literally all it is. Solipsism.

Edited to help you guys out. According to your own "rules":

1) multiple anecdotes is not a scientifically peer reviewed studied rubber stamped by a well-known leftist and feminist institution. Therefore, anecdotes are useless. This is the common quip liberals and feminists on this subreddit use to discredit any point ever brought up by someone on the right. I am now using that very same logic against you. Any thread / comments by people do not serve as reliable data, and I am ignoring it, just like how you ignore comments from people you don't like because they say things that hurt your feelings.

2) A man scared of rejection is not intimidated by the woman. He is afraid of the end result of the action he ends up taking. He is creating a situation that has both a favorable and an unfavorable ending, and he does not know which will be the resultant state, and so his apprehension is stemming from his uncertainity. The woman, standing there, is not intimidating him in any way shape or form.

3) If you think men's problems is that they aren't all getting their dicks sucked, enjoy your cats.

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A man scared of rejection is not intimidated by the woman.

Yeah bc the intimidated one is the one who feels emasculated by women who have they shit together and they. I dont see the point of denial. Go read your own subs

This doesnt even include the women they consider out of their league and debase themselves to obscene lengths bc that is how yall are with looks

And

If you think men's problems is that they aren't all getting their dicks sucked

The projection. Look where you are and tally what the men complain about yourself. Lol lying is just laziness, its always more fun to point out the dead ass truth

enjoy your cats.

What a zinger. Women prefering their pets over purgatory that is LVM and you think this a sick burn?

Whose gunna tell him?

Also, you also wrote this like "if you dont care about male issues, you will end up alone" 😂😂😂

Lol do your own heavy lifting and advocate for your own people, yall not slick lol. We dont give a shit. We're too busy advocating for ourselves bc yall dont believe in peace.

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Well, there are two organizations I know of. I've done protests with Bloodstained Men twice in the past, it's for anti MGM. From their events calendar it looks like their 2022 protests will begin on the west coast US. Since they do national protests its rare they are in my area.

Also, the National Center for Men located in the northeast US, creates films and as of today still has a hotline/affordable counseling service for people to call to discuss men's rights, divorce procedures, parental alienation, the Draft, circumcision, and just general sexism. I donate to them twice a year, usually $50 or more if I could swing it. Unfortunately not local to me.

I'd been hoping you had more information about how to actively help men, not passively by just being a basic empathetic person. If I find any more organizations while researching the current state of men's rights going into next year, I'll message you. Maybe men and women like us who care about equality can make a difference if we band together.

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30M Not currently married, the best time is when you’re sure of yourself and your partners future and you feel confident in the relationships chances. You’re not just smitten within the first couple months of the relationship and you’ve seen the good and the bad and still love your partner. If I have to pick an age mid to late 20’s Cannot have children unless the sperm I banked is healthy(unlikely very sick with leukemia at the time). The best time in my opinion would be when you and your partner have had time to discuss how you want to raise your potential child(ren), you feel confident in your finances and or one or both of you has enough time to actively participate in raising the child(ren) and not just hand them off to a nanny/daycare at every opportunity. If I have to pick an age, late 20’s early 30’s

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On the other hand it amazes me to read some of the bullshit women will put up with (boyfriend doesn’t wipe his ass, doesn’t have a job and plays games all day, follows and flirts with other women on Instagram, doesn’t satisfy her in the bedroom) but a normie who showers and wears clean clothes and doesn’t gaslight her has trouble getting a second date.

I knew a couple women like this in real life and you know why that kept happening? They were a 3 dating an 8. One weighed 225+ pounds with a below average body and the dude was 6'3 or 6'4 and like 180 with a good face. The dude she dated before that was even better looking and even more of a worthless gross mooch.

Apparently like 90% of the effort is getting a woman to somehow fall for you and then you can coast until someone tells her she should dump you. But if you’re relationship material but have no seduction skills or average looks, you’re fucked.

Once you meet womens impossible looks standards you can do whatever you want such as taking a crap on their pillow or masturbating to porn when they are in the same damn room.

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I talked to a girl a couple weeks ago who was trying to come on to me and one of the first things she started talking about was her abusive ex who left her thousands of dollars in debt.

You must look trustworthy. I have the same problem, random people, usually but not always men, will just start talking to me about the difficulties in their lives. This occurs when I'm sitting or standing next to someone for a long period of time...long post office or grocery queue, or waiting at mechanic. It's funny, the last time I took my car in for repair I decided to wait instead of walk home because raining, and ended up talking with 4 different guys over the course of 2 hours. Learned their life stories lol

I think there's a lot of people out there who just want someone to talk to, and people like you and I must have a certain open or welcoming look.

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I think that woman face unique challenges in accessing equal outcomes then men. Do you disagree woman are the primary childcare in the majority of households? Do you disagree that woman face unique challenges in reproductive health? Do you disagree that woman coming from more conservative cultures can feel uncomfortable accessing health-care from men and that as the gender more likely to stay-at-home might feel more isolated during immigration?

Do you think none of those things are true? Because they factually are, and intersecual feminism (the academic and primary focus of feminism) is seeking to allow them equal outcomes.

I'm sorry but your low-brow hurdur equal rights gotchu tells me you know about as much as what academic and modern feminist initiatives are doing as a fucking brick. So yeah, edgy is putting it the most polite way i can.

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What do you think of Hollywood age gap relationships - for example Jeff Goldblum recently married someone around 30 years younger than himself. Patrick Stewart I think married a 38yo when he was around 70. Even Alex Trebek had a decently younger wife.

You also see not just in Hollywood guys who are ready to settle down and have kids who reasonably pick wives who are still capable of having kids. I have literally 3 female friends who married men around 10 years older when they were around 30. One of my brothers was the same.

For my part...ugh I just missed out on a lot of shit. So any pursuit of what I want involves pursuing something that probably doesn't involve what a 40yo woman is thinking at this point. There could be exceptions, but in general I don't relate to the attitudes found in many of my friends right now. Age has seemed to make them want to settle down and do calm boring shit like house and kids and PTA meetings, whereas age has made me realize I want to savor the heights of experience and do all the things I haven't done yet as much as I can before I'm dust.

[–]WilliamWyattD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I really do not like to judge relationships without all the right context. The best marriage I know features a guy who is 18 years older than his wife. On the other hand, he says that it would have been so much better if he could have been say about 5 years older. Nevertheless, the marriage as it is was still her best option.

In general, I think a guy being say 4-8 years older is fairly ideal. Also in general, I think the big age gap relationships may serve somewhat legitimate purpose for the older guy, but maybe are not really thinking about the younger woman enough. Maybe if you miss out on shit and get old, the universe means for you simply to miss out on it?

Still, in theory, one can make something positive out of anything. But it might not really be the younger person's best option, and you may be robbing them of that option. But at other times, the older guy may be the best option she's likely to get.

Older woman/younger man relationships, except as explicitly short term things, are almost always bad just due to innate gender differences. There are always exceptions, but the chances of a large age gap working out well when the woman is the older one decrease dramatically as you get older and older.

[–]SouthernGrass3 [score hidden] 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

An age gap up to 8 years as a guideline seems at though it would have more cons that pros

—would exacerbate the issue of many women not finding the men seeking relationships with them to be that visually attractive, especially over time. A 20 year old women may find a 28 year old man attractive (though on average, less so than someone closer to her age) , but when she’s 30, he’s going to look aged in an unfavorable manner, compared to her peers.

—good chance of it interfering with social compatibility. The friendship component of a relationship is probably more important than ever with all our leisure time+ increased longevity + having fewer kids. 28 year olds don’t usually find 20 year olds appealing to spend regular time with if sex is off the table, have less in common over which to bond, and tend to find them immature.This could probably also be said for most people 30 plus looking at those under 25 or 24, and it’s a issue if the goal is a long term relationship

— power dynamics get screwy. If the older party is not acting in good faith, or is operating with different agenda, the younger party can really get the wool pulled over their eyes and end up in a bad position. Early 20s/teens tend to be more malleable and impulsive with worse judgement. — When both parties are interested in a relationship, the older person does typically have somewhat of a competence/leadership advantage (which is positive) but the younger person is in a terrible position to discern whether/ the extent to which this is actually true in a given pairing or domain, and also the extent to which the other person is acting in the couples best interest, or the best interest of 1 individual. They are in a weaker position to know when to let things go or to advocate for themselves, and probably also less likely to be taken seriously. It is much easier to access things when someone is in your age cohort and you have more of a reference level.

The advantage in leadership also does not satisfy hypergamy in the same way as if someone appears better at leading due to individual attributes, rather than age.

It would work well for resource hypergamy, but the cost seems pretty high.

[–]WilliamWyattD [score hidden] 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough. 8 years is pushing it in many ways, and I might also be imagining things in what I might think of as a world with a more ideal culture. Even I was thinking closer to 4 when marrying younger, though. I also misremembered the average as being 4-5 these days, when in the West it is now more like 2-3.

I'm not necessarily as worried about power dynamics or social compatibility issues. But I take your point, especially in this world and the one it seems like we are going to, about sexual desirability. That seems to be ever increasingly important. Men do age better in theory, but it is hard to say in practice if the woman is making a much better effort to stay good looking.

This is actually an interesting topic as to what is the ideal age gap, if any. A lot is culturally dependent, so part of what is interesting is having to guess which way Western culture will go in coming years.

But yes, as the focus on sex continues for both genders, the ideal gap may get smaller and smaller. A lot depends on whether the guy is dating up, down or across in pure looks. It may be that like a gap of ~2-3 years in favor of the man combined with him dating DOWN in appearance is a very good combination.

I think the fact that men seem to have declined in absolute terms across the board in recent times is also a factor. So if that were reversed, and men started improving across the board, maybe even getting ahead of women, that could impact things.

What do you think?

[–]SouthernGrass31 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It may be that like a gap of ~2-3 years in favor of the man combined with him dating DOWN in appearance is a very good combination.

This makes sense to me.

In terms of men putting more effort into appearance, If things go this route, I anticipate that a lot of what we see will be the things that give quicker returns- fitness, hair, clothes, with less attention paid to things like avoiding excessive direct sun exposure and having a good skin care routine, which tend to play a big role in how people visually age, so I don’t think men working harder on looks in the general sense will necessarily make age gaps more appealing.

Edit: To be fair, this is also a class issue. Men (mostly working/lower class) with outdoor jobs will inevitably take more sun damage. Sunscreen is way too expensive given it’s importance and skin cancer is no joke.

[–]WilliamWyattD1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is really complex stuff, with so many moving parts on the cultural side. I get your point about having a good skin care regimen and avoiding sun damage. You should see East Asian women in the summer--they are like Vampires. Long sleeves and skirts unless actually trying to be sexy. Huge brimmed hats and masks. Sunscreen everywhere. Though part of this is also trying to avoid becoming darker in the short term. Also makes one wonder if darker-skinned men could get a boost from this. Darker skin takes less sun damage; but this is balanced by an almost universal preference for lighter skin. However, this preference is stronger when applied to women than men due to sexual dimorphism (women are naturally lighter than men).

Then you get into the fact that men have more paths to being physically hot than women. A man can be 'ugly' hot with the right kind of physique and dominant look. Not only do men wrinkle less than women naturally, but wrinkling can have a far less negative impact on male appearance depending on the overall look he has going for him.

Another huge issue if figuring this out is how female priorities and preferences seem to change with age. Women prioritize male appearance less and less as they age. However, there may be some correlation here to how interested in sex a woman is as she ages, so that the women who care less about a man looking hot when they get older also care less about having sex. But even sexual women tend to care less about ageing cues in men in determining 'hotness' as women age. And of course, the big issue is figuring out what the innate 'neutral' setting is, and how much is impacted by cultural/environmental influences, and where those influences will go in the future.

In all of this, I get this intuition of how difficult it is to pair two people for life starting at a young age. It seems particularly difficult on a theoretic basis to keep a woman satisfied with the same partner from ages 25-death. Not only does she have an innate serial monogamous nature, whereby after 3-5 years she will start undervaluing her mates traits in order to lubricate mate-switching to better options, but what a woman wants seems to change a lot as she ages.

With men, the difficulty is more practical than theoretical. If he marries a woman who is a couple of years younger and very attractive, and that woman maintains her attractiveness and ages very well, it is usually possible for the man to be happy with the core relationship for life. He may, however, want some extramarital sexual novelty here and there. But from the man's side, this desire doesn't really impact his satisfaction with the main relationship, unlike with women where mate-switching seems to be the primary motivator for extra-relationship sex, indicating a lack of satisfaction with the main relationship.

It's unclear to me whether we ever get to the point where in general the equilibrium will be at men dating down in pure physical attractiveness--though this may be wise advice for any individual guy who wants enthusiastic sex from a long term partner and can manage to make the appearance sacrifice. But this might vary based on age range. Also, what applies to the bottom 70% of the SMV market is not always what happens in the top 30%. Ultimately, we are in unique times with respect to our evolutionary impulses.

As discussed in another thread where someone asserted that modern life is revealing women's true preferences, I disagree. While enforced monogamy distorted and suppressed such preferences, modern technology can also do so in a different way that is in many ways even more potent than any strict mating system with pre-modern technology. The studies are clear and terrifying about the extent to which sustained interactions with digital technology can literally rewire a brain in weeks to months. What is interesting, but makes sense, is how it is primarily about the female attraction circuitry. It isn't only that women are the primary selectors, but also that women's much more complex desire/attraction circuitry seems much more prone to being significantly altered by cultural and environmental influences.

Male circuitry, on the other hand, seems much simpler and more robust. It is influenced, of course. But its singleminded pursuit of youth, fertility cues and sexual novelty with fairly low standards seems much less prone to being messed with by culture and the environment. The needled gets pushed this way and that way a bit, but in general the male circuitry keeps producing basically the same results in all environments. Maybe we really do think with our dicks lol.

[–]SouthernGrass31 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Interesting.

Considering the multitude of factors that affect women’s mate standards, it actually make even more sense to me now for men to date down in desirability.

Then you get into the fact that men have more paths to being physically hot than women. A man can be 'ugly' hot with the right kind of physique and dominant look. Not only do men wrinkle less than women naturally, but wrinkling can have a far less negative impact on male appearance depending on the overall look he has going for him.

There’s truth here, but people go too far with it. With all else equal, men can age better in certain ways— but they also just age differently. Balding is significant. Also, when aging causes us to look less robust, men tend to take a different kind of hit than women. Being attractive, despite a rougher face largely relies on the man seeming tough or looking strong in some way. If he can’t maintain his physique or stumbles in terms of behavioral masculinity, things kind of break down.

[–]WilliamWyattD1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men don't age better objectively. It is just mostly based on the fact that men remain fertile for life (even if their fertility declines), and thus women seem to care less about male fertility signs in general, and less and less as they age. But again, given women's much greater susceptibility to cultural/environmental influence, we could easily see a digitally enabled female focus on male youth and vigor in the future.

From a 'math' pov, the naturally most efficient way to solve the issue of trying to pair up as many men and women happily in the future is to take advantage of men having way lower and more flexible standards. Basically, on paper, you can just make women's standards the hard constraints and match accordingly. This works great on paper.

However, in reality this faces two problems. One, at the higher end of the SMP, men seem to have more leverage than women. Some of this is based on biology. It is unclear if cultural changes will alter this significantly. So these men are not going to adjust to women's preferences that much. That said, women's preferences for male appearance may become less exacting relative to a woman's own level once a man's appearance hits a certain objective level.

At the lower end, it could work since men have less leverage. However, a pervasive sense that this is 'unfair' to men could impact things in a way that is hard to estimate. I mean if men are putting almost all their selection priority on female appearance, while women are still dividing their priorities much more widely (even if the focus on male appearance goes up in relative terms), then it is understandable if men would go 'WTF?' if they still have to date down in appearance.

Men matching with less attractive women also goes against most of the literature that currently suggests the happiest couples are where the woman is more physically attractive. However, this literature may average things out too much. But mixing in older women (who currently care less about male appearance) with younger women, it may not account for the difficulties in even getting to old age in a pairing if the woman is not sufficiently attracted to the man when they are younger. Also, it is younger women who are impacted more by the big shifts in women's prioritization of male appearance, an increase in prioritization that may not go away (though may diminish) as this younger demographic ages. Finally, this averaging out may not factor in that dynamics seem to change once a man hits a certain threshold level of attractiveness: like a male 8 in pure beauty may be enough for a female 8, 9, or 10. But a male 6 is NOT enough for a female 6, 7, or 8.

And in terms of 'fairness', men may have to understand that they can ask as much from a woman overall as a woman asks from a man. But they simply cannot load all their preferences into one category because for women, their are consequences for a man significantly underperforming any of her criteria. Men may simply need to learn to spread their priorities more widely. And even if this goes against biology, it is actually good for them in many ways. They should care more about female personality, accomplishment, strength, etc.

[–]SouthernGrass31 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

My understanding was that when men dated down in class, status, etc. they were choosing to compromise in areas that they didn’t think mattered that much in a woman (although they may have ended up mattering in the long run) in order to optimize the visual desirability of a partner— and the consequences of doing so we’re largely hidden from them all together due to enforced monogamy, or didn’t become apparent until the union was already in place. In other words, in terms of male choice, “marrying down,” wasn’t actually much of a concession , and yielded many unions that didn’t meet women’s minimum gg requirements.

Now, it’s becoming more clear that a man over-optimizing the looks of a female partner, is at a direct cost to her meeting a minimum standard in a partner, and that neglecting other areas of compatibility in order for him to get a hotter partner, is bad idea for the social piece of the relationship.

I find it really, really sad to think of very lower tier men not having partners, but I don’t see men dating down in looks to be unfair, unless the women doesn’t meet their minimum desirability requirements.

Edit: I didn’t see your full comment before.

Good points.

I’ve thought about those studies regarding couples where the women or the man is better looking.

My theory is that it’s an expectations issue with the idea that men (historically) deserve an equally or more attractive woman, and the women is insecure about the relationship because of this and/ or the man holds this belief and it adversely affects his treatment of her.

In the couples in which the woman is the better looking, you avoid issues with the aforementioned precedent and the man may be extra attentive to compensate for bringing less to the table physically -and she may still really love him, even If she doesn’t have that much lust for him

[–]WilliamWyattD1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree that 'fairness' is a very ephemeral quality here. My point was that men's perception of what is fair may matter, even if they are not absolutely right about it--if anyone can ever really adjudicate fair in this context.

I get your point about the old paradigms minimizing the costs of men choosing to not prioritize other factors in women. On the other hand, it isn't clear that this played a huge part in men's motivations to do so. Even now, men still do it when the costs are higher. They do prioritize non-appearance factors more when marrying, etc. But female youth and fertility cues are still the overwhelming priority. It's really a matter of each gender going with their biology despite whatever real world consequences there might be haha So men may feel it is unfair if the future conditions of mating match the female imperative more than the male.

That said, we do need to be real. Widespread long-term monogamy is nowhere near entirely natural for anyone. The chances that whatever conditions are required to make it happen will also favor each gender's biological instincts exactly evenly are about zero. One might argue that in the past, women had to get the short end of the stick due to the realities of the environment and technological limitations. Also, while men having to focus on other things may go against their biology to a good extent, it is possible that it would ultimately make them happier. It could be that male impulses, attuned to the idea of just fucking as many women as possible, are not as well matched with what makes us happy as female impulses, which were always more attuned to having a single partner. So it could turn out that forcing both genders more towards female-style criteria is actually best for the long term true happiness of everyone.

Well, the opposite might be true in the new world. To make it work now, the male biological impulse's might need to be prioritized less than the female. NO easy answers here. In many ways we are still in a brainstorming phase. Just throwing out many ideas and possible considerations. You have lots of great points that I am throwing into my mix for constant consideration. No idea what, if any, firmer conclusions I may come to on this one day. Still feel a ways a way from that stage. It is indeed very complex.

We should also note that to some degree we are assuming that culture continues down the liberal individualistic path, where the lack of top-down ability to make big changes in it means the culture kinda just progresses based on its own logic and that of technological innovation. This may or may not be true. If we can actually wrangle the culture more in a conscious way, a lot could change.

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No its just so basically foolish I can't believe you are that simple, I'm literally giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Now while democrats have destroyed small town industry in Illinois (my fathers small town went from 7 to 0 factories, the last leaving for Indiana) lets say you take nice red state rural area.

You set it at zero taxes....

Great!

It needs power, it need transport, it needs housing, it needs people, its why cities start in the first place where conditions are right, like say Chicago at the end of the great lakes. The area absolutely was awful and swampy but the location was key.

Only a complete idiot would want the government to "create" a city like that with tax payer money that may fail trying to get business.

So what happens with organic cities? They grow, jobs grow, trash and idiots vote democrat and we get tent cities! Democracy has its flaws at times. Democrats view jobs and people as a way to tax after all.

[–]poppy_bluget off my lawn 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How did democrats destroy the farm town in Illinois that your dad is from? Exactly? How were they specifically responsible for industry leaving?

it’s why cities start in the first place

Yes, exactly. I suggest you read up on the rust belt, the gold rush, Lowell, Massachusetts, and countless other examples. Or if you need some more current examples: Raleigh, NC, Midland, Tx, Austin, Tx, Palo Alto (duh), and so on.

Who do you think made the conditions “right” for those cities to thrive? The Lord Jesus Christ?

Most of those smaller yet thriving cities are actually not blue (with Austin and Palo Alto being exceptions). They’re purple to red. I’m not sure which cities you’re specifically referring to that we’re thriving and then people started voting democrat and they tanked. Do you have a few examples?

Democrats view jobs and people as a way to tax

I guess republicans pay for everything with prayers and miracles. 😂

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Sex havers here, who also actually enjoy sex of PPD.

Lets talk the Hall Pass. Its been on my mind because I had one out of the blue last week and I'm quite appreciative of my wife for being ok with it.

So lets take some variables out of the equation, since most of you are in sexually monogamous relationships and not this ethical non monogamy I've lived now for almost 20 years.

Variable one - They won't fall in love with the other person. This fear is common, especially on those who LTRed up early so new to sex was a big part of the equation, at least IMO.

Variable two - It won't be so good that they won't be satisfied with just you later. With guys its almost always fears he will have a bigger dick and I'm not sure the sentiment with women on this but its there too.

Variable three - The other person won't try to steal your partner away, its a literal 1 and done.

Variable four - No one will know about it beyond you, no social issues, no family, no shame, basically its only between you and your partner.

So could you do it?

Edit: The prude level of PPD is 9000!

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I don't know. It's entrusting two people who aren't you to behave as you want them to in a situation that could be highly emotional. I understand there are people who are poly because monogamy isn't for everyone, and I'm old enough to know that life isn't as black and white as "if you love me you won't want to sleep with anyone else, ever" or that if someone has sex with another person, that doesn't mean he/she doesn't enjoy sex with their partner, just that he/she wants to maximize the amount of good sex they're having.

That said, opening up a monogamous relationship is highly risky and often disastrous for many reasons, even if people think they can control for everything. I'm sure the vast majority of people think it'll be "just once." It's hard for most people to stop at once.

EDIT: to answer the question, I'd rather not know about it. Like another commenter said, I don't want the burden placed on me so my partner can absolve himself of responsibility...if someone wants to cheat they probably will, I don't think it's a question of permission. Likewise, if I want to cheat that's on me and not him.

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This guy is getting blasted in the QRTs.

He made this comment.

Him: Someone’s father died the other day and he posted that it was the worst day of his life. I added “yet” in the comment section because nobody knows the future and his worst days might still be in front. In our emotional moments we need to be most cautious not to tempt fate. ✌🏼

“Damn! Why would you say that? What was the need?”

Him: no reason, it’s how my brain works. Same thing I would say when someone says their wedding day is the ‘best day of their life’ when they can’t possibly know that. Or when someone says to me “I called you a million times” and I say ‘you could not have’. I’m minimally emotional.

Ppl are calling him an asshole, socially inept, inconsiderate, etc. mocking him saying “I’m minimally emotional.”

Is it simply him being on the spectrum?

His comment was demonstrably inconsiderate. And I’m sure he can’t parse why everyone or that guy may have taken offense.

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A distinction without a difference, one.

And two, I know you chicks here are used to locking onto goofy, retarded semantical distinctions in order to derail the topic and move the goal posts over to your turf, but that won't work here.

Regardless of whatever word games you want to play pertaining to how you feel when interacting with a male stranger, the point is...

But, become unhinged and start slinging names and shame when men tell other men that women aren't to be trusted for whatever reason.

If you think it's ok to assume negative characteristics of random guys on the street and overstate these assumed characteristics to your friends and your TikTok followers, then likewise, it is ok for men to assume negative characteristics of women and overstate to them to other men. But, you all hate that. It makes you emotional and angry.

Get your hypocrisy together.

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I think in cases where it's non-consensual, it's the lesser evil because it's traumatic to a woman to make her give birth to her rapist's child which she didn't consent to.

If it was consensual, then own up to your fucking actions. You're killing your child because you made a mistake out of your own sheer stupidity and are too lazy and selfish to deal with the consequences of your own actions.

You just want to punish women for having sex they enjoy

Dumbest possible argument. 1. I don't give a shit if other women choose to have sex but are not stupid enough to not know how to use birth control properly. And 2. the guy is getting just as punished cause he's gonna be paying for that baby for the rest of his life. But I'm fine with that because killing babies is wrong, and people should face the consequences of their actions.

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[–]dbz192 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

All you’ll do by outlawing them is make them unsafe

oh no I'm so worried about the safety of a woman trying to kill her own child. She should be able to kill her child in a safe environment so she doesn't get hurt.

Like I said elsewhere, bodily autonomy shouldn’t apply only to men

yes I forgot that men have the bodily autonomy to kill people. I guess next time I swing an axe at someone, I can say my body my choice.

If a woman doesn’t want to give birth, she shouldn’t be forced to. Unless you’re cool with forcing people to give up marrow, blood, kidneys etc so we can save the lives of others

Shit comparison.

Abortion requires an active intervention to do something. Leaving things at the natural state, the baby grows up and is born. The active intervention is scooping it out and ripping it to pieces with a small shovel. Just like the active intervention to someone with kidney disease is donating your own kidney.
There's a degree of removal. In this case its a mother with her own child. Whereas me and a random person living somewhere else needing a kidney is extremely removed from me.
One is a consequence of your actions the other is not. Did I shoot the kidney guy in his abdomen puncturing his kidney and causing him to require a kidney transplant? If so then yeah maybe i should have to give my kidney. But if his kidney disease has nothing to do with my actions, then I'm not responsible for it. A woman being pregnant is a direct result of her own actions. She should take responsibility for her own actions.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dbz192 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It’s actually not a shit comparison - people need an active intervention in terms of organs, blood transfusions, etc to live

That's my point. In one of them, to do nothing is to not give your organ. In the pregnant one, to do nothing is to let your baby grow up. The active intervention in the pregnancy case is cutting the baby to pieces and scooping out his or her corpse.

Should you be forced to give a reformed alcoholic one of your kidneys?

Did I force him to become an alcoholic? Why should I give up one of my organs to save the life of someone who's disease I had no say in creating? A woman who has a baby CHOSE to create that baby. She made the conscience decision. This is the result of her decision. She can't kill the baby because she wants to avoid the consequences of her own decision.

I don't even understand how a woman could have such a lack of empathy towards her own child. It's like a complete absence of every nurturing and motherly quality.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dbz192 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, to do nothing in one sentences a full grown human to die

Yes but you're comparing a situation where doing nothing results in the death to one where doing something results in a death. You're saying that to make that fair, we need to force someone to do something in the first one to save someone's life and comparing that to doing nothing to save someone's life.

It's like if I pointed a gun at someone's head and said "I'm going to kill you", and someone else said "no, don't", and I said "if you care about his life so much, why don't you donate your organs to random strangers".

You're saying someone should do an active procedure and sacrifice their organs to be morally equivalent to someone not doing an active procedure to kill someone.

To do nothing in pregnancy means you’ll be forced to have a medical procedure you don’t want - episiotomy, pelvic floor damage, and all

Only happens in some cases, still not comparable to taking a human life. And if you're so afraid of an episiotomy or pelvic floor damage, maybe read up on birth control methods next time.

Why is the fully grown adult - a tax paying citizen living in society - less important to you than a clump of cells?

They're not. I said I'd accept it to save the life of the mother. But 1. it's not a clump of cells, unless you're taking the morning after pill, by the time a foetus is detected and the lady has an abortion, the foetus has arms, legs, a heart.

And 2. the life of an unborn child is not worth less than whatever financial inconveniences having a child will give you. If you were so desperate to not have those inconveniences, you should have used birth control. Sex is not a human right. You don't get to kill people just so you can have sex without birth control.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dbz191 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m saying that the onus is - and should be - on the person getting the operation/procedure to decide if they want it or not

You're saying people should be free to do a procedure designed specifically for the purpose of killing unborn babies, and if you're against this, you're logically inconsistent unless you approve of mandatory organ donations. That makes literally zero sense, and I have a feeling you know that, you just want to justify baby murder.

The outcome to the other person should not matter. And it does not, in one case. In the other, a clump of cells matters more to you guys than an actual living, independent, tax paying person

It's not a clump of cells and what the fuck does tax have to do with it? Guess we should imprison people who kill high income earners longer than people who murder children since children don't pay tax and high income earners pay a lot of tax. Literally nothing you say makes sense.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I don't think that most divorces are the result of abuse. There was a study with the most common divorce reasons and domestic violence wasn't in the first third.

Here's the list from the most to least common:

Lack of commitment
Infidelity
Too much conflict and arguing
Getting married too young
Financial problems
Substance abuse
Domestic violence
Health problems
Lacks of support from family
Religious differences
Little or no premarital education

The same reasons by in the order from the most to least numbers of couples where both partners named this issue:

Lack of commitment
Too much conflict and arguing
Financial problems
Domestic violence
Substance abuse
Infidelity
Getting married too young
Health problems
Little or no premarital education (this and the previous one have the same rate)
Lack of support from family
Religious differences (no couple actually had both partners naming it)

I guess you can count "getting married too young" as "boredom" in some sense.

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[–]Even-Kiwi-9164Simp for Smurf -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I feel like most of redditors are whiny babies when it comes to work. Like they are upset they don't make enough money or work too many hours for what they make.

Any constructive criticism gets immediately gets rejected. What do a trade and put all that physical effort into working man, that would suck. The systems rigged man I should have a middle-class lifestyle from my job in retail. What drive Uber man and work nights and 6 days a week to make good money, I SHOULDN"T HAVE TO DO THAT, I SHOULD JUST GET MONEY. It's the systems fault that my degree in english isn't worth anything, capitalism just doesn't value it how it should really be valued (it has nothing to do with there being a small amount of jobs that relate to it and a wide pool of graduates, lifes just unfair!!!!!!).

I know a guy whose parents were immigrants, both worked 60 hour weeks one in landscaping the other I don't know. Put both him and his sister through school and both are now doing well. Think they complained, no.

Yeah, your circumstances will dictate how much sucess you can have (like Bill Gates, Bezos, Musk, etc.) but people on reddit are coping hard if they don't think they can't improve their situation. But argh, they don't see it that way because they're such babies.

[–]dbz19No Pill 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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Because I understand how the world works and understand that billionaires aren't the reason for all your woes. (Taking all their money wouldn't be enough to eliminate all student loan debt, provide universal healthcare, etc etc. It wouldn't even be enough to do one.) The reality is that there isn't enough money (but really what's really behind money labor and goods (with enough incentives for people) to provide it) I'm just so sick of the giant green envy on display on reddit it's disgusting.

Because I understand that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, because I understand that if we delivered on everything the whinny redditors want we would be worse off.

People whine but have no idea what they are really whinny about. Hate capitalism (which the current iteration could be improved upon) but don't realize that it's literally wired into us.

Capitalism exists not because there are a couple of greedy fucks, but because it's how large groupings of humans behave. True socialism hasn't worked once because of this very thing. Read up on game theory and the prisoners dilemma.

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Complaining about entry level wages and living conditions is a right of passage lol

That said, there are some employers who are delusional - just because they can get someone to work for minimum wage doesn’t mean they should

There is a distributor that I know of who pulled some serious shit during and after COVID - furloughed everyone, then brought their sales staff back on a draw. While their client base was under severe restrictions and not ordering even a third of what they normally did

The way the company worked it, all commissions earned had to be paid back, meaning the sales staff worked for the company for free during that time (relying on partial unemployment)

But if someone turned them down? They reported the person to unemployment and got their benefits taken away (for refusing work)

It was a neat little trick that was legal. But very very wrong

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Depends what these duties are tbh. If I am living with someone, it is not about "wifely duties". It is about splitting the chores. I am quite capable of doing the washing, cleaning and cooking myself. However, if I am living with someone, then yeah I damn well expect them help out. They don't need to do it all. But I will want it to be split. Don't like it, I will happily show you to the door or I will show myself to the door, whichever makes most sense in the situation (ie, did she move in with me, or did I move in with her).

I don't view chores as wifely "duties". This isn't the 19 fucking 50's. If we are both working, regardless of how stressful work is, stuff will still need doing.

However, I will observe how a woman lives before I even entertain the idea of living with them. I take pride in my home, and I expect no less from a partner.

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Firstly define LVM

I fail to see the gotcha. Are you saying it makes no sense to desire a family while also not wanting a LVM in your like creating trauma and drama all the time? What..?

No, it makes no sense shouting how you're a "strong independent woman" and then desiring a relationship. Independent and relationship are mutually exclusive. By the very definition, relationships require dependency.

Wanting a quality partner for a healthy family is dumb now?

Raving about being independent, yet wanting it definitely is.

Ok I guess. Let women be dumb then

Why not let women be women?

But if what you were saying LVM is better than nothing so welcome their low vibrational bullshit so you can suffer as a cliche? Thats gunna be a no for me dog. Not sure why thats silly to you.

Wanting a HVM and securing a HVM are two completely different things.

Women can exclusively date men who earn $5 billion or more, doesn't mean they'll get dates or even meet those men.

Nobody gives a flying Fart what you want, your price, standard and level are purely based upon what someone is willing to do or pay, absolutely nothing more.

[–]dbz193 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Jakes19671 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was talking about the concept of needing "a" man. Both men and women nowadays don't really need to date.

Absolutely ALL those damn articles to the contrary, obviously.

I'm talking about individual level. On a social level we all need each other.

Do we? Why do I or anyone else in society need you?

In society, women are only needed for 3 things and thus are completely interchangeable. The vast majority of men aren't interchangeable and thus are needed by society, to provide numerous things.

But I guess I haven't articulated my point well. I wanted to say that although I'm married and I do feel that I need my husband for my well-being, this need comes from emotional reasons and not that I need him to provide for me or solve my issues.

Yet I'm betting there are issues and problems, that only he can solve for you?

Title	Daily Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	7
Comments	996
Date	November 27, 2021 1:00 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/r31du4/daily_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/daily-community-chat-megathread.1086365 https://theredarchive.com/post/1086365

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