What's the deal with r/menslib?

ProtectIntegrity · 2024-07-03T01:23:47+00:00

Pinned for visibility: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1dtw99w/whats_the_deal_with_rmenslib/lbdb2bw/

someguynamedcole · 2024-07-02T23:43:48+00:00

It’s rather hilarious how the ask women subs all complain that menslib is a cesspool of misogyny, when most of the subreddit’s content these days is paranoia/scaremongering over teenage boys’ media consumption and how it might inconvenience women

YourPiercedNeighbour · 2024-07-02T23:51:28+00:00

Menslib is a wild place. They ban talk of how circumcision causes harm. Or any talk of “hey maybe we should try and shift the narrative on circumcision in North America” they have no interest in actually helping men, just to be a feminist controlled opposition. Look at the user overlap between them, askfeminists, 2x, witchesvspatriarchy. Etc.

GAMESnotVIOLENT · 2024-07-03T00:17:10+00:00

https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/menslib

The most overlapped subreddit is TrollXChromosomes. It's literally controlled opposition.

Langland88 · 2024-07-02T23:49:12+00:00

This Reddit from what I understand was created because of issues from the Men's Lib Reddit. Men's Lib was supposed to be a Left Wing space to discuss men's issues however the moderators that were, and possibly still are in charge, are Feminist Women. Feminists don't see Men's Issues as a priority and more often than not, don't see a lot of Men's Issues as valid. Because of that frustration, this Reddit was created because criticizing Feminism as a whole and their failures to address Men's Issues has often been prohibited over there. Although it seems like a lot of Feminists possibly from that Reddit have found their way here because I have a seen a lot more Feminists come here and give critiques on discussions over here. I feel like even a year ago, heavily downvoted comments were very nonexistent over here and now I have seen more of them in the last few months. Heavily Downvoted comments from Feminists was and still is more of thing in the Men's Rights Reddit because that Reddit attracts more negative discourse among the Men's Rights Movement and Feminists.

Anyways, my point is that that place has always been problematic when it came to healthy discussions on Men's Issues. That's what even led to this reddit getting created in the first place. Plus I believe there is a documentation in this Reddit of plenty of situations where Men's Lib dropped the ball on Men's Issues. One famous one was a few years ago where they got a guest Speaker to discuss Domestic Violence and he was very much a Duluth Model supporter. Most of his answers to questions asked to him resulted in him saying that only Women can be victims of Domestic Violence and Men are always the aggressor.

Here's the link to an archive of it.

https://archive.ph/t6zg4

Soft-Rains · 2024-07-02T20:46:13+00:00

For transparency the banned comment/response was:

Boys are left behind in school its their own fault. When girls are left behind in school it's societies fault.

That is actually a pretty good example of the lack of empathy and systematic analysis for men's issues often seen in progressive spaces, I'm just curious what you are even doing here with those beliefs.

Cerberus11x · 2024-07-02T23:59:05+00:00

False premise, it is not a male advocacy sub.

OGBoglord · 2024-07-03T00:49:18+00:00

The intersectional Feminist framework can't conceive of men being oppressed, vulnerable, or otherwise disadvantaged on the basis of their gender/sex, so any instance of men experiencing worse outcomes than women has to be a consequence of misogyny, which is upheld primarily by men.

Any explanation for male disadvantage that isn't reducible to misogyny will be dismissed. MensLib is inclined to blame "male ego" for boys underperforming in school because it aligns perfectly with the pre-conceived notion that all gender disparity is downstream of patriarchy, regardless of whether Feminists themselves actively reinforce such disparity.

There was actually a Twitter debate recently among a relatively small circle of leftists in which intersectional Feminists argued that the caricature of black and brown men as hypersexual super-predators is in fact an example of misogyny against white women...

Again, they just can't conceive of men being the main subject of their own victimization.

StarZax · 2024-07-03T00:37:03+00:00

They aren't interested in talking about anything that isn't through the lens of feminism. It needs the approval stamp basically, therefore is it really advocating for men if you need feminists' approval for your issue to be acknowledged ?

That's now how we are going to be heard. They are so afraid to be seen as « adversaries of women » ... as if we were ?

Illustrious-Red-8 · 2024-07-03T02:51:58+00:00

It's an important topic to discuss especially given at the sheer extent of pathetic lives some people are living. u/Earthmaster is the son of a wh*re motherfucker genius that does not get discouraged despite how hard his life is doing mental gymnastics to justify as to how much of a loser he is.

I've seen many Hezb supporters make him cry because of his weak logic. Please take care if your mental health folks.

Illustrious_Bus9486 · 2024-07-03T00:46:35+00:00

Welcome to the banned from r/menslib club.

MelissaMiranti · 2024-07-02T23:23:26+00:00

Menslib isn't left wing. It's a way to sabotage efforts for equality.

angry_cabbie · 2024-07-03T01:22:55+00:00

As long as I've been aware of /MensLib, which has been for about as long as it's existed, it has not been a left wing men's group. It has been a feminist-based men's group. Which means, in action, if you're not looking at men's problems through a feminist lens, you're in the wrong. And fuck that.

BKEnjoyerV2 · 2024-07-03T01:15:50+00:00

It’s just the “male feminist” page, that’s basically it

KordisMenthis · 2024-07-03T03:48:15+00:00

It's because it's a feminist subreddit.

The mods are mostly active feminists who engage with feminist theory The problem is that Feminism, as understood by politically active feminists, is specifically a theory which claims that women, and only women, are systemically oppressed by men, who are systemically advantaged.

If you believe that there is any area where men face any sort of specific systemic discrimination or disadvantage that is not either: a) less bad than what women face b) a side effect of men enforcing patriarchy on other men, then you are not a feminist, because men facing structural discrimination in some form is not compatible with the idea of a society-wide patriarchy specifically oppressing women and specifically advantaging men.

Progressive posters who want to discuss the (real) issues they see facing men come in to menslib to talk about those issues in a progressive setting. But this inevitably moves outside the acceptable feminist boundaries because in reality men DO actually face systemic gender-related disadvantages in some areas.

When this happens the (often very self-righteous and confrontational) feminist mods come in and shut it down and tell these posters that their experiences and observations and perspectives are invalid because some feminist theory says so.

The end result is a men's issues sub where it is impossible to talk about a huge proportion of men's issues, hence the very low levels of engagement from users despite being a big subreddit and with a lot of users basically massively tone policing themselves and tiptoeing around mods.

And yeah I got banned for saying that the use of the word 'pussy' as an insult probably comes from 'pussy cat'/'scaredy cat'

geeses · 2024-07-02T22:31:47+00:00

The issue is that they start from a feminist view of society, so due to the patriarchy, it is impossible for men as a class to be disadvantaged

Intersectionality is good in theory, but in practice, it just turns into an oppression hierarchy and all nuance is lost. You don't hear about how police violence against black people affects mostly black men rather than black women

Appropriate-Use3466 · 2024-07-03T02:42:10+00:00

First, it appropriates Men's Liberation Movement. It's true that in the past there was one only Men's Liberation movement, with some members aligned with Feminism. The original Men's Libs were much more concerned about Traditional Male Roles than feminism, and Warren Farrell was both a Feminist and a Menslib, however when the NOW decided to oppose shared custody, the movements definitively splitted, with Pro-Men "Men's Rights Movement" and "Male Pro-Feminism" movement, which then changed name in "Male Studies" (vs New Male Studies or Men's Studies which is MRA) or "Masculinities studies". Nowdays they appropriated Men's Liberation Movement and called themselves Menslib too. However, original Menslibs were not always pro-feminism. They were rather "neutral", some pro and some against. In fact, "Men Freeing Men: Exploding the Myth of Traditional Male", a Manifesto of Men's Liberation Movement, was already critical of Feminism in 1985.

Moreover, during the original Menslib movement, there was the Sex Role Theory, ie the idea that the sex which went against sex roles (societal expectations about how to behave, etc. related to gender) - which with the new emphasis on gender and transgenderism, became Gender Roles - was penalized. However, while original Menslibs liked this idea, feminists thought it didn't calculate "the power" ie Patriarchy. So Connell created the idea of Hegemonic Masculinity, an ideal which was incarnated by the Hegemonic Men against "Non-Hegemonical Masculinities" and ALL the Femininities. In this way, Connell said: Men can be discriminated, but only by other men, and they discriminate against all the women.

However, more and more the research found the female equivalent of Hegemonic Masculinity, but in order to avoid the idea that women had the power and possibility to discriminate against men, they called it "Emphathized Femininity", ie a Femininity which was the ambassador and servant of the Hegemonic Masculinity and wanted to establish the Patriarchy among women.

When Hegemonic Masculinity uses the force, the aggression, it becomes Toxic Masculinity. So all the Domestic Violence is seen as Toxic Masculinity ie the use of force by individuals who incarnate Hegemonic Masculinity to establish Patriarchy with women. This erase Male Victims of Domestic Violence by women (which, consequentially, would be seen as incarnating Toxic Femininity).

However, as the time passes, more and more studies uses the phrase "Toxic/Hegemonic Femininity", because the difference between Hegemonic and Emphatized are nonexistant in reality. Femininities can discriminate against Masculinities as much as viceversa.

In fact, the same Feminists, when they wanted to criminalize 1nc3ls, called them "Hybrid Masculinity" ie they say that they incarnate a Non-Hegemonic Masculinity but they benefit from Male Privilege of the Hegemonic Masculinity. De facto using special pleading fallacies and admitting their own theory makes no sense.

Moreover, while a woman who acts against other women is seen as having "internalized misogyny", a man who acts against other men is not seen as having "internalized misandry", but "incarnating Hegemonic/Toxic Masculinity".

The difference is HUGE. Men have agency, their behavior is one with their identity (Masculinity is both an identity and a behavior), they CHOOSE to act that way.

Instead, "internalized misogyny" means that it's the EXTERNAL WORLD that made women do this. Women have no agency in this regard. They didn't choose, they were conditioned, brainwashed, used as puppets by the Patriarchy.

So when somebody is using this Double Standard between Toxic Masculinity and Internalized Misogyny is implying that when women discriminate it's the society's (and men's) fault; when men discriminate it's men's fault. So it's a lack of accountability: it's never the women's fault, it's always the men's fault.

Third, the idea of Patriarchy automatically dismiss Male's Issues. However, when they cannot avoid the evidence, they try to say stuff like "Patriarchy hurts men too" and "Women internalized the Patriarchy". Which is like saying that "the Gayarchy hurts gays too". It's either Patriarchy and it benefits men, or it's not Patriarchy and hurt men. Having a Patriarchy that hurts men is a contraddiction in terms.

In fact, when you mix all the excuses, you have a system in which both men and women are responsable and are discriminated. If "Patriarchy hurts men too" and as an example you list all the stuff that they categorize as "Toxic Masculinity", and explain how women are responsable too because "women internalized Patriarchy", then puff! Patriarchy as we imagine disappears.

It's becoming clear that it's a Sexist System that targets both Sexes, or, as Warren Farrell would call it, it's a Bisexism, not a Patriarchy.

In fact, so called Matriarchal societies don't have a difference in gender roles. Matrilineal and Patrilineal societies have similar gender roles. So it's not Patriarchy's fault.

The Mosuo, for example, are a society in which "women have the power" because men go in other villages to work, and so women stay with the babies and have all the power.

But wait... isn't it the same kind of things that happen in the so called Patriarchal societies? Yes! Men provide and women stay with children.

So it means that these so called Matriarchal Societies, are just like the others. And why are women "powerful"? Because they, being in the domestic sphere, have more resources.

They can pass their ideas, gender roles, expectations, and so on to their children. This is what anthropologists call "Matrifocality".

So huge Matrifocal societies are where the father is absent because he's in another village, but in so called Patriarchal Societies the father is also absent for the job.

Therefore we live in a world which is both Matrifocal and Patriarchal.

Matrifocality, ie Female Informal Power, means that women have always had the power. The wives and mothers of kings, emperors and politicians always had the power to shape the mind of their children, and therefore, the future generation of Kings.

Kings (Patriarchy) with ideas shaped by Queens (Matrifocality).

ProtectIntegrity · 2024-07-02T22:04:35+00:00

Most modern left-wingers are left-wingers when it comes to themselves (and when they can virtue-signal) and right-wingers when it comes to others.

JJnanajuana · 2024-07-03T03:18:14+00:00

One of the things I really like about this sub is that we can criticise feminism without criticising women.

Some things can be caused without criticising feminism some can't, like when feminists directly hurt mens issues, we need to recognise that.

A while ago I wrote up a review of a feminist science paper/chapter about male victims of domestic homicide by female partners.

I posted it here and on the men's rights subreddit and tried to post it in menslib, but they didn't let me.

It was literally an overview and review of a chapter in a book, dedicated to intersectionality in domestic violence homicides.

It should be the kind of thing that gets discussed there, but no

eli_ashe · 2024-07-03T05:37:27+00:00

i find it regularly worth commenting to this point; they're misandrists. they hate you first and foremost.

nothing they say about men can be understood without firstly and primarily understanding that point. it is just hate. it is motivated by hate. everything they say after that is but ad hoc justifications to their emotive states of hatred.

such doesn't technically dismiss their claims wholesale, but such is the proper way to understand and analyze what they are saying.

in other words, being generous, somethings they say may be true, but even if they are, they are being motivated by hate primarily.

its like asking an anti-black racist what they think about black people. they may have something legit to say about black people, but everything they are saying is motivated by that underpinning hatred of black people.

it can be helpful to discuss the irrational particulars that stem from their hatred, but it is also important to note that fundamentally it is stemming from irrational hatred, an emotive state that technically has no meaningful supportive reason.

ChimpPimp20 · 2024-07-03T01:43:17+00:00

I keep having trouble trying to post my LONG ass explanation to my issues with menslib but I think that may have to be a full blown post in response to yours. That's the best I can do for now. Sorry.

Two explain it shortly: it's mostly performative bs to make the other male activists look stupid when they say " the left doesn't care about men." A smokescreen you may add. It's not all malicious as I understand that there are well meaning feminists there. It's just filled with dismissiveness with almost EVERY male issue and self loathing (something they've openly admitted to at points).

anaIconda69 · 2024-07-03T06:38:25+00:00

Menslib is internalized misandry. Reject guilt, be free.

cosmofaustdixon · 2024-07-03T00:03:28+00:00

I came to the conclusion that they wanted to downplay any and all men's issues for a feminist agenda after banning people who called flaying baby dick what it is: Male Genital Mutilation.

I'm subscribed to Men's Lib but only because I genuinely am curious what makes a man hate himself and other men so much. They lie and downplay EVERY men's issues. It's amazing that these people can genuinely say that they are for Men's Lib when it seems that they actually want Men's Enslavement to the feminist agenda. So much for abolishing the Patriarchy! Now we have a Gynarchy!

Hell if anything I think a fair conclusion is that they just hate men.

Also why are they so dogmatic? No dissent is tolerated. r/MensRights tolerates dissent but these guys can't handle a tad bit of criticism of their worldview?

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2024-07-03T11:37:23+00:00

Menslib is r/feminist with a fake mustache pretending to be concerned about men.

Abiogeneralization · 2024-07-03T10:56:47+00:00

Internalized misandry and a love of censorship.

Charming_Gift7698 · 2024-07-03T13:05:29+00:00

It’s terrible. They are filled with misandry. I got banned for saying maybe we shouldn’t be cruel to incels and realise that what they go through is due to men’s issues

Charming_Gift7698 · 2024-07-03T13:06:41+00:00

This is why I think men’s rights doesn’t work with a conservative foundation OR a feminist foundation

blueyb · 2024-07-04T15:28:06+00:00

Men's Lib is a "Sorry I have a Penis" club. A "male space" where they use their "space" to proclaim how bad men are and discuss what they can do to benefit women.

SentientReality · 2024-07-03T11:29:55+00:00

menslib is NOT in any way a "left wing male advocate" sub. It is exclusively a "force pop-feminist ideology down your male throat" sub for self-flagellating men. I made the mistake of thinking I could have a productive discussion there. I was perma-banned for criticizing extreme wokeness. The moderator told me directly that using the word "woke" caused him to ban me.

It's called "menslib" because their conception is men will "liberate" themselves from patriarchal influence, I think.

Johntoreno · 2024-07-03T11:52:27+00:00

At 200k subscribers its much larger than this subreddit

That means nothing, look at the engagement rate. We get more posts&comments than them. Most of those subscribers are either astroturfed or inactive accounts.

Cross55 · 2024-07-03T00:26:24+00:00

It's a 2X sock puppet sub mostly made up of transwomen and women (I reverse the demos because the majority of 2X users only have 1 X chromosome) cosplaying as cis men.

YallGotAnyBeanz · 2024-07-03T20:09:10+00:00

r/TwoXChromosomes took it over. Worst of the worst.

jose_rios25 · 2024-07-03T23:32:57+00:00

It’s infected with rad-fems pretending to be men, I agree it’s a controlled opposition, I saw a post of a guy saying men should organize and do activism for our social issues, and his replies were like “that’s toxic masculinity” “you shouldn’t do that” “but what about women”

ReflexSave · 2024-07-04T00:23:07+00:00

This is a pro-feminist community.

It's in their rules.

I'm pretty sure it's controlled opposition.

independance_soft · 2024-07-06T14:27:08+00:00

They only think through feminist theory. Therefore believe that men's problems are only fixable by changing men. As opposed to tackling the obvious societal issues.

AGoodFaceForRadio · 2024-07-03T00:12:35+00:00

Well, to be fair, they’re pretty open about what they are. “We consider ourselves a pro-feminist community” is right there on their About page. It should not come as a surprise when they act that way.

Some of their regulars are a pain in the ass, obviously just there to stir shit up. There’s one I’m pretty sure got lost on her way to r/twoxchromosomes. But every sub has trolls. Don’t feed them.

Despite its failings, I still find it to be useful. Like with most subs (this one included) you have to curate your content a bit. There is good thought and good discussion to be found there: I seek that out and ignore the rest.

CoachDT · 2024-07-03T00:59:36+00:00

It falls into "good guy" territory for me, as do many of the other "I'm not like the other male spaces" subs.

Their priority isn't necessarily on pointing men in the right direction to get help, allowing them to vent, and being constructive in terms of providing data to affirm positive beliefs about men.

Their primary focus is making a space where women feel comfortable discussing men and what they perceive issues are with them. It's something that I don't think they're doing maliciously, but at the end of the day as a male, I understand entering a female space is going to make me uncomfortable at times. That's just an accepted part of discourse, the inverse however is seen as a problem that needs to be corrected.

HateKnuckle · 2024-07-03T09:19:22+00:00

I think the sub is struggling to figure out if it should believe every man is an oppressor who created, upholds, and benefits from patriarchy or believe men can also be victims of patriarchy.

Pococurante228 · 2024-07-10T12:26:46+00:00

Menslib is ran by the same people who run all the female subs so not surprised how that sub is

ImmaDrainOnSociety · 2025-10-05T19:41:50+00:00

r/menslib is pretty much a franchise of r/TwoXChromosomes

Title	What's the deal with r/menslib?
Author	Soft-Rains
Upvotes	245
Comments	228
Date	July 2, 2024 8:45 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1dtw99w/whats_the_deal_with_rmenslib/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/whats-the-deal-with-rmenslib.1523075 https://theredarchive.com/post/1523075

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