Many men are fine with “misandrist” stereotypes as long as it targeted towards men they view as an out group.

DellOptiplex7080 · 2024-12-22T23:36:07+00:00

Op discovers discrimination

PassionateCucumber43 · 2024-12-23T01:16:53+00:00

Looks like OP just discovered racism.

Fusiontron · 2024-12-23T08:51:41+00:00

Male solidarity in general is much less than female solidarity. We're more likely to see each other as competitors and so yes we will assent towards misandrist stereotypes (and stereotypes are often based on at least a kernel truth) if we perceive they're targeted at a specific group of men who isn't us.

Ego73 · 2024-12-22T23:40:33+00:00

This is exactly the same as when white people support anti-white rhetoric: they know it's targeted at a specific kind of white person (rural, low education, Trump supporter), whom they know to be socially below them. So they get to pretend to be self-deprecating while actually punching down by proxy of enabling people of a lower standing to punch up towards rednecks. And the last thing an Ivy League white person wants is to be confused with rednecks, so they also know it's in their best interest to engage in this performativity.

So, when men engage in similar stuff, it can take on two different forms, one of which targets traditional working class masculinity, which makes it adjacent to the form of anti whiteness discussed above. The other avoids class discourse by instead drawing associations to coomerism and sexually undesirable men. So when male allies talk about patriarchy, they're not thinking about themselves, but rather about social structures which make others associate them with low status men.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2024-12-23T02:28:03+00:00

it's not misandrist to question basic cultural compatibility and read simple crime statistics. i've seen first hand what relatively unchecked immigration does to a country/society (and i'm an immigrant myself fwiw). there's a reason why there has been a massive shift to the right all over europe. different situation in the US of course.

Kagemand · 2024-12-22T23:15:54+00:00

As a male I have no problem acknowledging that males are more prone to violence, crimes etc. But this especially goes for poorly socialized males e.g. from specific poor functioning non-democratic societies and cultures.

Should we have solidarity with these men? Well, to some degree, but once poorly socialized, men are hard to help. So immigrant men cannot be integrated to western societies in numbers without incurring large costs, whereas women are far easier to integrate. It’s just basic facts.

savethebros · 2024-12-23T02:49:07+00:00

The amount of times I've heard the terms "mangina" "soyboy" or "cuck" in mensrights or other men's communities is astounding.

BrenoECB · 2024-12-22T23:57:29+00:00

I can reverse this on you: women will have a weird tendency to defend the exact sort of people who are more likely to enact the behaviors they supposedly condemn.

There is a reason why the “women signing petitions to free violent criminals right after posting about how scary it is to walk alone at night” meme exists

Quirrelwasachad · 2024-12-23T07:08:35+00:00

Racism is harsher on the men than the women of any race. Glad you finally realised OP.

SadCahita · 2024-12-23T04:36:50+00:00

Why would I view inmigrants of other races/cultures as part of my group?

Timosox · 2024-12-22T23:19:47+00:00

I assume you're from US?

In Europe it's not like this.

The majority of the millions of migrants paid tens of thousands to travel - so not from the most vulnerable in society. They are all young men. Essentially economic migrants. Many are radicalises Muslims. In Europe this has caused great problems. Sweden the Utopia of Europe now labelled the rape capital of Europe. Here in UK we have had many beheadings and other atrocities and just the other day in Germany they killed tens of people and injured hundreds of others. Maybe you also heard about the male grooming gangs in the UK where thousands of British women were raped? Maybe the stabbings of the little girls at the dance party in UK?

On top of that, they get free accomodation in expensive hotels, pocket money and phones. Priority for public services all at tax payers expense.

So hopefully you can see why some people don't want millions of these folks every year into their country? Trying to somehow link this serious problem to the male vs female dating arguments is frankly distasteful and absurd.

markov_truwitt · 2024-12-23T17:14:32+00:00

Correct, systemic bigotry is harsher against men than women because there is an instinctive impulse to sympathize for women. This is not new though?

Bloody_Mandrake · 2024-12-23T18:54:21+00:00

Latin "white-passing" (or whatever that means) dude here.

I have a pretty solid insight on why men of a given region view foreign men as a threat. And yes, this is specially true for white working class men...

BUT not exclusive to them. I will explain further.

For white working class men, it's because they are the ones who lose more power (socially, economically, culturally and politically) and status in the sociopolitical narrative and rethoric of "intersectionality".

White men at the top of the socioeconomic ladder are unnafected by pretty much any political consecuence their decisions may bring onto them. First, their jobs do not suffer from the overdoze of competition of low skilled work hand. Second, they don't have the need to be in contact with the newly arrived, since they live in protected, often exclusive, neighbourhoods. And in third place, by having more unnskilled work hand, you actually have more purchasing power as you double the competition in the lower echelons of the job market.

Most women are unnafected by a higher suply in men and, in fact, they need more men in order to preserve their recently gained "empowerment" and freedoms. Women's freedoms cost a Nation quite a lot of wealth and resources, and it is by now a well documented fact that women are a taxi net negative, and they demand way more resources from society than what they produce. In order for women to enjoy their "independence", they need men to keep producing wealth and services that result in a redundant prosperity and can be redistributed on the base of taxes through government programs. So, the more men you have in your country, the better is for women, in the same vein that a tribe with a lot more men than women would have a higher productive ratio than a tribe full of women.

This is, of course, in theory. There has been argued also that the more men you have, the higher the intersexual competition for a mate, considering women's to men's disproportionated ratio.

Now you understand why white men as a demographic could see inmigrant men as natural competitors.

But there is also another issue...

Which is political representation.

In the grand scheme of things, the dominant group of men of a given country always lean to the right when it comes to political ideas, while women lean to the left.

The cause is easy to presume: right wing parties pretty much align with the concepts of private property and self-agency in issues such as taxes, work and personal safety, while left wing parties have as a core principle the redistribution of wealth and the State as the monopoly of security.

Now, if men produce most of the wealth of a nation, be it in infrastructure, manufactures and services as in stractivist activities (which they do) and they are stronger and more prone to defend their rights through violent means than women are (which they do) then it makes sense that men would lean to the right over the left.

On contrary, the weaker and more vulnerable you are, the more dependant you are on the State (because you cannot defend for yourself) and this is why part of the women's political ideas circle around stripping men of their self agency and, in turn, deliver it to the State that will act as a "equalizing organization" by holding men's individual actions to the same set of rules they hold women's, and enforcing this with violence (of other armed men, this is, that by virtue of working for the State are in some form "stripped" of their feelings of belong to a male group).

The second aspect is, of course, forcing men to share their resources through taxes.

So, it only makes sense that women would lean more left than men.

The problem with inmigration is then, that through intersectional identity politics, the men who come from foreign nations fall under the umbrella of "opressed people", or at least in the group of disadvantaged people, and this is a key part in the political speech of upper class men as much as women to strip the masses of male workers from their political and purchasing power.

This is pretty much clear in the way concepts as "Patriarchy", "Racism" and "Classism" are framed in the Western World, as almost exclusive "sins" of white, heterosexual, christian middle class men.

It is only logical then for white heterosexual christian middle class men to not only dislike, but feel threatened by the idea of people who feel "opressed" by them to run a free open borders policy to import more people that will fall in the opressed category, as this will further his political and social dissenfranchisement.

In fact, we should be surprised if the masses of local men would be willing to support with their money and political power the importation of such a direct confrontational force, right? That would be stupid.

Now you see the bigger picture... But there is also a more important point to discuss.

Politics are the domain of primarily men, and this is because men understand the true nature of politics, while women don't...

For women, it would seem that politics mean sophisticated speeches for endless, fruitless and idle debates.

Most men tho understand, at least on some instinctual level, that politics are a continuation of war through other means.

That's the actual point of "democracy", actually.

The very act of a democratic system is to meassure the raw numbers of two political sides with differing and opposing views in a social matter where there is a high potential for escalating violence, as a way to circunvent the inmecesary loses in human (mostly men) lives.

Basically, the side with most men wins the democratic elections because, well, duh... The side with most men would win anyways if the other side wasn't all up for the final results.

This is why some men may view women's voting rights as some kind of "technical absurdity" even to these days.

Phylosophically speaking, I mean, you have "ideal rights" and "effective rights", and a right can only be effective if you have the means to make it possible and then... Defend it.

Women have the numbers... But in men's mind they do not have the strenght!

So, as far as now, you have a political and ideological system that views a group of men as the sum of all evil and a threat to "democracy" (which is justified, I mean, if there is a group of people that can overthrown a government, that's men) and tries to dissenfranchise them as a way to keep them in check...

All this is backed up by a small minority of men in power and most women, all good all clear. Men as a group do not percieve this as a treat (because women are not a treat to men), but all of a sudden...

You start importing men from other countries? En mass???

And you tell men they are OPRESSING these foreign men that are willingly coming into the country and ilegally crossing the borders?

So... These men are enemies???

Why are you bringing them in then???

And I say this as a latino, born in Spain, from an italian father and a polish mother, who's currently living in Argentina as an inmigrant, and a who doesn't have a horse in this race.

It would be ABSOLUTELY STUPID for western men to not be concerned about mass inmigration of men from the third world to their homelands.

And this has NOTHING to do with not being "empathetic" to other men.

This has to do with WAR and the HISTORY OF MAN KIND.

Turbulent_Mix_318 · 2024-12-23T20:34:39+00:00

Well yes those guys are an outgroup, quite literally an foreign, potentially enemy tribe.

Particular_Oil3314 · 2024-12-24T14:24:18+00:00

This is men believing in hierarchy.

They might think Muslim men attacking women is terrble but are OK when white non-Muslim men do it. The see the natural hierarchy as:
1) Them
2) Women
3 Muslim men

Dangerous_Unit_1238 · 2024-12-22T23:13:25+00:00

Your argument is logical if you don't actually think about the implications of what you are saying.

Men are statistically far more likely to be murdered or a victim of violent crime than women. Yes, look up FBI statistics if you don't believe me. This means that if we let in people more likely to commit crimes, the people who are statistically more likely to be affect are American men compared to American women. If what you are saying holds true about immigrant women committing less crimes than immigrant men, it will mean them coming in will have less negative effects on American men.

The other issue is that immigrant groups are not the same as American men in terms of their struggles and interests. American men do not have solidarity with those groups because they are completely different than us culturally and otherwise. Why you think American men or women should have solidarity with these groups seems strange to me.

Your part about 'stereotypes' is just stupid. Any time there is a fact about a group that the left finds 'troubling' and isn't politically correct enough to state, the woke lunatics will call it a 'stereotype', as if labeling something a stereotype means the point has basis of being true. It is possibly the most idiotic form of denialism as if just labelling any inconvenient truth as a stereotype someone makes it disappear from the realm of reality or truth.

Look at FBI crime statistics and not every group commits crimes at the same rate. We can debate the differences, but the facts are still the facts. The numbers are not ambiguous in the sense of arguing that they exist or not- they do exist.

It is not mysandrist or misoginist to state facts. Facts are merely numbers and figures that address some specific phenomenon. Simply calling something a stereotype and labelling it as mysandrist because it doesn't fit your views of immigration is intellectually dishonest and manipulative.

IdiAminD · 2024-12-23T08:22:32+00:00

It's nothing "fascinating" about it unless you believe in some fictional "united male nation" lol. If men from wealthier countries lose due to influx of male migrants - they simply do not want them, left wingers are insane and dumb so they act against own interest, but normies make simple calculation. People(including men) unite to achieve some common goals - why should I unite with my enemies ?

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2024-12-23T00:08:00+00:00

I'm not. I'm sick and tired of Trump treating Mexican men as rapists and criminals while treating Mexican women as innocent damsels in distress. All men are my brothers.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-12-23T02:25:56+00:00

Pretty much. Red Pill is correlated with conservative views (or what passes for conservative in the US these days) and has a lot of alt-right types associated with it.

If we’re talking US politics I’d say they also hate immigrant/refugee women and children as well because of the threat of changing American culture by their mere presence here and capability to reproduce, now or in the future. No violence necessary.

But yeah, most of the rhetoric from politicians is of the “bad hombres” variety, emphasizing fear of violence. Unfortunately it works very well.

TowerRough · 2024-12-23T06:55:32+00:00

It's not just immigrants.

Open-Quail-2573 · 2024-12-23T17:43:44+00:00

Congrats. You realized even men don't care about other men lol.

-SidSilver- · 2024-12-24T14:37:28+00:00

People who hold extreme, reductive, bigoted views will always do this. It's impossible to distill people down to a sort of caricature evil figure without accidentally dragging some fellow humans down into it at the same time.

Since the whole point of these views is convenience, they just contradict themselves minute to minute as an extra bit of smokescreen against the complete lack of consistent reality at the core of what they're saying.

hidratedhomie · 2024-12-25T00:07:47+00:00

If you believe that misandry is the main reason of not wanting immigrants from religious fundamentalist third world countries, that burden the countries they immigrate to more than they contribute to it, then I don't know what to tell you.

DapperDan1929 · 2024-12-23T04:56:47+00:00

Great gotcha lol

LillthOfBabylon · 2024-12-22T23:12:16+00:00

Well, duh. Guys here will take credit for anything good men do and then distance themselves from anything bad men do.

Now, on the flipside, a lot of guys will let awful men speak for them (“all guys only think about sex and will cheat if they can”) and then get mad when male sexuality has a negative reputation.

EDIT: Oh its not only immigrants. They do this with minorities too. I cant go into details due to the rules.

Podlubnyi · 2024-12-23T02:18:09+00:00

It's nothing to do with misandrist stereotypes, some folks are just opposed to damaging and unsustainable levels of migration from Third World nations (male or female).

If I recall, there was also quite a bit of female angst at the prospect of large numbers of young and attractive non-feminist women showing up in their country and providing them with competition for the men.

MrNotSoFunFact · 2024-12-23T11:47:50+00:00

Not sure why "misandrist" is in quotes here, this is just objectively true. These men are some of the most frustrating to talk to. These sort of people's entire philosophy centers around having "got mine" and creating fantastical explanations for their own failings in life. The anti-immigrant sentiment is pretty pathetic, in most cases it's just lowlifes looking for scapegoats. Especially if you live in a place like the US, what right do you have to complain about immigrants? How are they harming you? Of course, then the goalposts will shift. Oh no, but what about Germany or Sweden or the UK, not realizing that even with respect to those countries, their whole narrative relies on a few carefully chosen examples and is not representative of most citizen's experiences. And you will never ever get a straight answer from such a person about what a migrant needs to do in order to actually "assimilate".

HighValueWomanBook · 2024-12-22T23:46:41+00:00

What in the world is this post asking? Or is it just rambling?

RoseyButterflies · 2024-12-23T09:49:39+00:00

At this point men think everything a woman says about men is misandrist.

Don't wanna date a guy? Oh she's a misandrist

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2024-12-23T20:23:00+00:00

I don't feel solidarity with white dudes either. That's dumb. We aren't in this together, were competing

ilikecats18851 · 2024-12-24T04:22:16+00:00

Yes, men (majority of which not being criminals) discriminate towards the outgroup of male criminals. This is why when men vote, society tends to figure out the whole "criminal justice" thing pretty quick, but that is "mean" so now we are stuck with immigrants lighting people on fire in a subway. :)

ExcelsiorState718 · 2024-12-24T06:01:39+00:00

I'm all for hot you female immigrants flooding across the boarder bring us your tired poor huddled masses yearning to breath free

KissMyAsthma-99 · 2024-12-24T13:44:07+00:00

It's not misandry to be able to recognize patterns and reject ones that are not preferable.

I am opposed to all illegal immigration no matter the gender, but if forced to choose, I'd choose a female illegal alien over a male one. That's not misandry, it's pattern recognition.

Cloudluigi · 2024-12-25T04:26:41+00:00

Depends. I generally judge people differently from most, as I am not interested in socializing, making friends, dating, or having kids. In general, I am viewed as part of the out group, and I have been treated as part of the out group. Despite me being similar to most of the men, I am treated poorly by many men for being single, and also worse for not being interested in relationships, marriage, or having children, in other ways. So on the one hand, I get similar treatment as these migrants get, and on the other hand I am not technically part of the out group.

When it comes to men, many do get very competitive over resources and women, which is fine by me, but I don't understand why I am treated as if I was after their women or resources? I am not. You also get the fun stereotypes people have for me, and then you start to see a clear picture. Men in general do not like anything that threatens their traditional lifestyle setting. Its not really about fairness or accuracy, it is just men trying to make sure that they can have their sexual and emotional fantasies in real life, without that pesky conscience getting in the way.

I have tried to not take it personally, but the married men always take it personally. They do not understand that I view them as living on their knees. The women walk them around on a leash, doing tricks for sex favors. Why would I interfere? Why would I take your woman? So I could live on my knees? So I can wear the leash too? You can have the promotions. You can have the nice cars. You can have the big houses. No need to shove me to the side like I am a threat. I will gladly let you get ahead of me. Yes, let your children live on their knees too. I don't care. I don't need much to be content. Just don't expect me to applaud your decision.

I just don't understand why they treat me like a criminal. In some ways, I do have sympathy for the migrants. Although, statistically speaking with the crime statistics, I do not relate to them.

Despite this not supposed to be about marriage or dating, I have been able to mention some of my experiences as being part of the out group, by simply not partaking is social rituals, traditions, lifestyles, and practices. I stereotype too but my point of view is from someone who is pushed out of the group. (Don't worry, I would leave even if you treated me with respect and decency.)

abaxeron · 2024-12-25T15:33:42+00:00

Oh. "Checkmate atheists" thread.

I'll expand on what I said in that thread:

Most of foreigners I ever had to deal with personally were migrant workers trying to satiate and satisfy the black hole that is their wives' (or brides') consumption habits. Can relate? - Absolutely.

Just this morning, had to share space with a worker who was maintaining my boss's garage that doubles as an assembly workshop. The guy was running around the place washing and cleaning like a worker bee, until at some point he got a call and informed our boss that he has to leave because another fella nearby has some job to do and offers more per hour. The guy has a wife and a son in his home country.

So... He is out of his home town, away from the woman and the child he loves to earn money. I'm basically in the same circumstances. Why the Hell would I not relate and sympathize.

If anything, by many metrics, male immigrants and refugees pose even lesser threat than their female counterparts. It's just that the threat posed by their female counterparts is conventionally not categorized as a crime.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2024-12-26T09:34:13+00:00

Well you pointed out a real thing. It's all about identification. That's why some men complain avout woke culture in some media or don't care in the case of immigrant: if they aren't able to identify themself in it, the rules are completly different. This type of men is generally selfish wether they know it or not

Tough_Ad3988 · 2024-12-26T16:57:31+00:00

"...which is why female refugees are preferable."

They are also preferable because it increases the amount of women that men think/feel/believe they can potentially have sex with, and getting rid of the men helps screw the male-to-female ratio in their favor. Also, these women are likely coming from poor countries, poor themselves, from cultures that are "traditional". They're easier to take advantage of.

Electrical_Year8954 · 2024-12-27T04:51:02+00:00

Male solidarity? Misandry or generalized hate of any kind is awful.

I believe there are many new age men that are seeing valid criticisms of the male gender that they agree on, but are trying to be that change they want to see. For example the red flag TikTok guy who primarily makes content calling out toxic masculinity

siletntium · 2024-12-23T04:55:43+00:00

Hypocrits feminists created an ACTUAL rape culture In Europe and you did it just to get back at daddy little girls are being raped and groomed and getting off witha slap on the wrist. As long as they aren't white it's all good.

Men don't want a lawless society taken over by cultures where theft, murder and rape is shrugged off because men care about their daughters, sisters and mothers. men also don't want opportunities taken from themselves their brothers, fathers and sons.

Men just aren't as willing to murder their children, destroy their culture, give all the opportunities to foreigners and ruin their childrens hope for a better life

ThorLives · 2024-12-23T18:44:03+00:00

Have you seen how women react when men talk about dating foreign women instead of Western women? Women pull out all kinds of misogynistic attacks about how those women are gold diggers, are manipulative, are just using men for their money, and they'll never actually love those men.

I guess many women are okay with misogynistic stereotypes as long as it's targeted towards women they view as an out group.

Goonerlouie · 2024-12-22T23:45:44+00:00

Straight men with good levels of test are subtly competitive with each other. Either for resources or validation, we don’t want another man part of the race

Xeltar · 2024-12-23T20:05:25+00:00

It's endlessly frustrating how actual disadvantaged men get treated so terribly by other men especially when it comes to criminal justice or immigration like you point out. And then amusing when people who are bitter about not being able to get a date then expect solidarity from other men.

Xeltar · 2024-12-23T20:05:38+00:00

It's endlessly frustrating how actual disadvantaged men get treated so terribly by other men especially when it comes to criminal justice or immigration like you point out. And then amusing when people who are bitter about not being able to get a date then expect solidarity from other men.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-12-22T23:18:42+00:00

Most illegal male immigrants are criminals

HOLYREGIME · 2024-12-23T01:27:13+00:00

Kick them all out. Is that what you want to hear? Man woman, children, they have to go. Back to their own country. Trump is doing mass deportations. It was nice knowing you, GET OUT!!!

Is this better? Am I participating in the equality?

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AidsVictim · 2024-12-23T01:09:44+00:00

Negative stereotypes about men can be true without being misandrist. Men are more prone to severe violence, rape, aggression etc. Both genders are more prone to certain negative (or positive) behaviours and pretending otherwise is just a denial of reality. The same is true for subpopulations (i.e. ethnic groups and/or classes) of these genders.

In any case I think the basis for this type of concern - that misandry is a major force and responsible for a lot of modern mens problems - is basically irrelevant. Most misandry exists as background noise from bitter women that doesn't really effect much. To the degree that institutions are biased in favor of women this is mostly due to either a positive view of women or conversely as seeing women as deficient and in need of more help. In reality most modern women are doing poorly like most modern men and the causes tend to be more similar than dissimilar.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2024-12-23T06:05:37+00:00

I think I agree with the basic dynamic, at least to some extent. But this is just one of many gender asymmetries we should realistically accept and work with. It is why the idea that just because women were the spearhead of movements to address women's issues we should not expect men to organize to support men's issues in the same way. The genders are different.

At some point both genders need to understand they have a collective responsibility for social good. But that how that gets manifested may be gendered to a great extent. We need female engagement on boys' problems, probably in a way that is different than how men engaged with girls' problems in the past.

Dull_Window_5038 · 2024-12-23T20:54:28+00:00

Anything to keep the working class as divided as possible. Cant have white and black workers getting along and forming unions now can we?

NockerJoe · 2024-12-23T00:26:11+00:00

I've worked with my fair share of immigrants who are like that. Most of them accept shit pay to do basic labor jobs and the kind of jobs that keeps society functioning. But a portion of them do commit crimes.

The problem is a lot of people don't like acknowledging thats also the whole social contract manosphere men like to talk about. Except society needs bricklayers and truck drivers way more than it needs the crypto traders and insecure middle managers that make up the red pills actual target audience.

The actual problem though is that migrants are overwhelmingly male on these grounds. Wether its Indians, Ukrainians, Latin Americans, the ones I actually meet who moved are by and large men, and a lot of the women from those countries I see on the internet still live in their country of origin. When the migrant population leans so heavily male and makes up so much of the basic labor market it raises a lot of uncomfortable questions.

Title	Many men are fine with “misandrist” stereotypes as long as it targeted towards men they view as an out group.
Author	SapphireRising225
Upvotes	181
Comments	248
Date	December 22, 2024 10:58 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1hka25s/many_men_are_fine_with_misandrist_stereotypes_as/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/many-men-are-fine-with-misandrist-stereotypes-as.1539250 https://theredarchive.com/post/1539250

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