Why do men accuse women of having high standards, then the same men proceed to shame women for marrying guys they aren't attracted to?

MonochromaticPrism · 2026-05-02T01:43:23+00:00

Why do men accuse women of having high standards, then the same men proceed to shame women for marrying guys they aren't attracted to?

I believe such men exist, as you are complaining about them, but I have never met such individuals. If anything, I've usually seen men respond positively to couples where the woman is clearly a league above the man, as that is in some ways a very hopeful and encouraging thing to see. However:

for marrying guys they aren't attracted to

This bit only occurs if a woman specifically mentions/posts about this for the purpose of complaint, which is a very different circumstance than a woman merely mentioning that she didn't marry her husband for his looks.

The first issue is that men, culturally, don't approve of badmouthing relational info publicly (or speaking of it at all, frankly). That's why so many women are surprised when they find out that their men have never spoken a single word of the specifics of their sex lives to their friends beyond a yes/no to it existing (if that). This is tied closely to male respect culture so you are going to catch some heat purely because expressing that outside of your private circle is viewed as being inappropriate, not because they care if you left him for those reasons (most men don't).

The second issue is that this goes against the whole "women are more attracted to who a guy is" narrative, which, even though it is dying, will still attract some negative feedback from people who believe it or men who used to and are still bitter about being sold a lie. This will likely be the more negative of the two, particularly from the men who view it as an extension of women claiming 1 reality under a certain set of circumstances and a second under another based on what is convenient. In truth, just like this post, these men make the mistake of seeing a behavior from a subgroup of the opposite sex and generalizing it to the whole group.

Women are constantly told our standards are too high and that we should "give the nice guy a chance.

Since you are talking about attraction, this has always been in regards to a roughly equivalent guy. If you're a 5, date a 4-6, for example, instead of looking only to 7+ men. You didn't bring up how other women rated the attractiveness of those men, so I can't be more specific on what went wrong here.

If you are a normal, empathetic person, you feel an immense amount of guilt and shame when you have to force yourself to be intimate with someone.

I assume this is coming from how your actions are actively lying to someone you care about? If so then this makes sense and you have my sympathy, but the negative tenor of your post makes this unclear. If you feel guilt and shame because you feel you are debasing yourself, and you express that, then you are going to receive much less sympathy since no one is forcing you to do this and because you apparently aren't bothered by the first part of this paragraph.

MarioWilson122 · 2026-05-02T02:31:06+00:00

Men are basically saying be reasonable. They are not saying go date someone you find disgusting, boring, or completely unattractive. That is one extreme. The other extreme is only chasing men way out of your league, ignoring the men closer to your level, then acting like men are wrong for pointing out the pattern.

Both extremes can be bad for different reasons. Dating someone you have no attraction to can create resentment, guilt, and a bad relationship. Chasing someone way above your realistic options can also leave you used, frustrated, or stuck complaining that nobody wants commitment when the men you want have too many options to settle down with you.

That is the part that gets skipped. The criticism is not “women should force attraction.” The criticism is that a lot of women frame unrealistic standards as basic standards, then when men say be more realistic, it gets twisted into “so you want me to date someone I’m repulsed by?” No. There is a huge middle ground between those two things.

It seems like some women like taking the argument to the most extreme side instead of dealing with the reasonable version. Men are not saying attraction does not matter. They are saying attraction should be paired with self-awareness, realism, and knowing your actual lane.

Muscletov · 2026-05-02T06:36:13+00:00

Women and men are free to have any standards they want. Anything else is not enforceable and the mere notion to do so is ridiculous. However, people with high standards have to deal with others judging them for being shallow, overly harsh or hypocritical, especially when they constantly demand things from potential partners they themselves do not have or fulfill. And while it naturally goes for both genders, I think women are much more guilty of this compared to men.

It's not really the high standards themselves, it's the constant hypocrisy from women's side that makes men rightfully livid. Not only do women constantly tell men to lower their standards as well, women also constantly obfuscate and deny their own shallowness in order to keep up the image of being the deepter, more romantic gender, especially by character assassinating men who simply don't fit their standards.

To put it into an example: you are absolutely free to reject a man for being too short and telling him so in a neutral way, but don't falsely blame your rejection on his character or ascribe your height standards to "patriarchal brainwashing". Don't get mad when he or anyone else calls you shallow, because you are. And don't attack the next man who might reject you, in turn, for some other arbitrary reason. Be consistent and take accountability. Again, this is unisex, men should also carry themselves like this.

Then again, we should definitely talk about our (western) culture and how it directly encourages women to be overly harsh, disdainful and also hypocritical towards men. Our culture could teach women to be a tad more lenient. I mean, men went through the same treatment in the late 00s and early 10s. They had their previously high standards, especially in regard to women's bodies, analyzed, criticized and ultimately deconstructed, especially via media representation and shaming the shaming language. Time for women to go through the same treatment, perhaps?

corey____trevor · 2026-05-02T00:33:21+00:00

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. I can be frustrated that women have such high standards (ie. they don't want to date me) and also be frustrated that any woman who eventually does date me may not even be attracted to me - both are shitty options. Especially since there is another option, women both lower their standards and actually become attracted to those men who only meet those lower standards.

I really believe you could have cultural shifts where the third option becomes more viable, but it would take buy-in that's not possible since the people most hurt by options 1 and 2 are socially, politically and economically at the bottom of the totem pole.

Attraction is not a negotiation, and you cannot fabricate it out of thin air.

Attraction can absolutely be influenced culturally. If we wanted to, we definitely could change what women are attracted to over a generation or two. (with the same going for men) Though you'd run the risk of just creating a whole new cohort of people at the bottom of the totem pole. Realistically there's no perfect solution.

According-Tea-3014 · 2026-05-02T00:37:56+00:00

I mean, you can do both.

Women DO have high standards. And women DO marry men they aren't attracted to for financial gain or whatever else they're using them for. I don't understand why you think its wrong to shame women for using men.

intothewild72 · 2026-05-02T08:07:33+00:00

You seem to make serious mistake with definitions. Observation and explanation is not same as accusation.

What you claim is quite rare. This is what is told in places that women love to label as 'manosphere' and by definition it's very tiny corner of internet. You have to actively seek it out to interact with it. I know, I tried. You can make that claim when you can point out constant flood of such telling in mainstream media (or even social media, just avoid fringe areas with minuscule user base)

Attraction is not a negotiation, and you cannot fabricate it out of thin air.

Of course, and you will find that majority of men think same. It does not make your claims stronger, it makes it weaker. Nobody tells you that, those fringe groups are exception, not rule.

Livid-Log7463 · 2026-05-02T09:44:00+00:00

The problem here is that If a woman is even entertaining the thought of dating a man who isn’t her perfect preference then she would have to be very low in desirability meaning that her equivalent guy is the same guys who are intolerable to her.

In other words these 2 critiques are for different things the former is for dating exclusively men who are much more relatively desirable while the latter is for putting others in a situation where their partner isn’t attracted to them, and the reason they get lumped together is because the unfortunate truth of the matter is that women can only be attracted to men who are relatively more desirable.

society000 · 2026-05-02T03:08:28+00:00

Those aren't contradictory points at all, in fact, you're kinda admitting that the accusation of women having high standards is correct. Idk how truly ugly your exes were, but if they were average or above, you have high standards by definition.

I'm personally only going to call you out if you say stupid shit, like: 'the bar is in hell' or 'I'm not asking for much', and then the only standards you're willing to list are things that a homeless troll can meet, but you're obviously only willing to date guys of a certain level of attractiveness. You can just admit that you only want 9s or 10s. Some redpillers might get upset, but I will sit there and nod along because you're simply speaking the truth.

Usually, women are shamed for marrying guys they aren't attracted to for money or other selfish reasons, not whatever this is.

People saying to give 'nice guys' a chance are usually talking about average or guys that aren't top 20%. Like, idk, say you like just about everything about a guy, but you don't like that he wears glasses or maybe he's a few inches below your height limit. They don't mean you have to hop in bed with Quasimodo.

Holy fuck, though, this post is hilarious. Bluepillers and redpillers in absolute shambles. Blackpill stays winning. Imagine finding out that you're so ugly that your ex developed fucking ptsd from kissing you lmao holy shit. I'm actually laughing out loud. This is some Grade A Ropefuel right here.

coochie4sale · 2026-05-02T01:47:56+00:00

You did those things lol, no one forced a gun to your head and told you to do it on 3 separate occasions. Where did the shame/pressure come from?

Jip_Jaap_Stam · 2026-05-02T11:24:01+00:00

I'm not sure if you've been living in a cave all your life, but people can be hypocritical.

Like how women complain about men who play games but tend to target said men for a relationship.

Like how women say they don't need men for their money but still look down on men who won't pay for dates.

Like how women claim men are terrible in bed but generally aren't particularly good at sex themselves.

Like how women spurn anxious/depressed men but take more antidepressants.

Like how women say men think with their dicks but are basically governed by their hormones.

Like how women hate slut-shaming but have no problem virgin-shaming.

Like how women preach body positivity but laugh at short men and small penises.

DrunkOnRamen · 2026-05-02T01:34:35+00:00

If a woman only finds men with model like looks attractive she needs to seek therapy.

tonyghow · 2026-05-02T00:37:11+00:00

What? No one is shaming women for dating ugly dudes. Maybe other women in your life are shaming you?

On the contrary, women are getting called out for getting into relationships and situationships with attractive men, and then complaining all men are bad because they were treated poorly.

> I dated men I wasn't attracted to… Both relationships were disastrous.

Maybe they were disastrous because you weren’t attracted to them and didn’t put in any effort? Why is that men’s fault?

> The last one was a guy 10 years older than me and, at least on paper, a great person,

So he had money? Whenever a woman says “on paper” that usually means she got into the relationship for the money.

> but I just didn't find him attractive through no fault of my home.

Why is it not your fault? Show some accountability? Instead of “society/girlfriends/sisters/mom made me do it” ?

Asterion__Moloc · 2026-05-02T00:25:52+00:00

I dated men I wasn't attracted to because I had been brainwashed into thinking I was "shallow" otherwise.

Do you care that much? Just date attractive people, you don't have to make a wall of text for that.

If you are a normal, empathetic person, you feel an immense amount of guilt and shame when you have to force yourself to be intimate with someone

Still you did that, men did not make you do that forcefully.

I still deal with PTSD and flashbacks from the times I tried to force myself to kiss him.

Rude and a waste of time for him. It's funny how you act as if you are the victim here and as if these guys should be thankful because you gave them a "chance" while admitting you were disgusted by them.

Attraction is not a negotiation, and you cannot fabricate it out of thin air

And you are faulting men for this realization or yourself? Because again, "men" did not date those guys, you did.

We have to stop accusing women of having "impossible standards" when we are really just trying to avoid the psychological trauma of forced attraction.

You should believe in yourself enough not to have others on the internet tell you what to do, you following through what people tell you to do on the internet is misleading as if it's those people fault if you dated those men.

I understand your point but the actions here were yours, so the consequences are yours as well. I don't want to be rude but this post seems a bit fake to me, I am sorry if it isn't, you should not be this dependent on what others tell you to do.

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wolf2424b · 2026-05-02T05:01:36+00:00

Here's a thought experiment. Suppose a woman posted something along the following lines:

I'm a woman who is average in terms of physical attractiveness but unfortunately I'm attracted only to men who are well above average in terms of physical attractiveness. (Of course it doesn't help that I have had a few flings with highly attractive men. I now realize that was a mistake.) As a result, I don't think I'll ever find a husband to whom I'm attracted.

Would men judge and shame such a woman? I think that for the most part, the answer is "no."

What gets a negative reaction from men is when such a woman claims that her problem is men's fault in some way. And in such situations, it's very common for the woman to claim that the problem is due to men being commitment phobic; or men not taking care of themselves and being unattractive; or men not recognizing that the woman's graduate degree makes her a "catch"; etc.

It's also common for women to deny that they can be "spoiled" by having had short term relationships with Chad types. (Which is strange, because most women will readily agree that men can be "spoiled" by pornography.)

In short, it's very common for women to refuse to accept responsibility for these types of problems and instead try to push responsibility onto men.

For the most part, that's what provokes shaming and judgment.

allmyburnerquestions · 2026-05-02T06:12:05+00:00

I'm curious how you'd receive the soft version of this position:

Since women are far more selective across a really wide variety of traits that they expect men to meet (e.g., be confident, be taller, make more money, be more assertive), and typically a variety of demands that women don't have reciprocally imposed on them (e.g., I've never expected a woman to physically defend me, ask me out, pay for all our dates, be my emotional rock, be especially funny/witty, be braver than me, be emotionally attuned and communicative but also gracefully & effectively take care of any genuine mental health symptomology), do you think its reasonable for women to relax their expectations for physical attraction? For example, you still find them attractive but maybe they're like your height, or you'd be objectively a good deal more attractive than them but they're still at least kind of cute to you?

This to me seems reasonable and fair. I think if women expect all that (which is fine) without anything close to the same expectations imposed on them aside from being hotter and pleasant to be around, I think they can "settle" so to speak for a kinda cute guy and be quite a bit more attractive than him. Thoughts?

To directly answer you though--forcing attraction is a mistake for anyone, certainly, but I think the extent to which women should prioritize physical attraction is the more interesting conversation.

ClevelandSpigot · 2026-05-02T04:10:56+00:00

Jeebus. Just being in a relationship with someone who you weren't attracted to gave you PTSD. Yeah, I can see why women find 80 percent of men unattractive. And that's the whole point. Both can be true at the same time. Men have no problem finding a wide variety and berth of women attractive in all sorts of ways. But the reverse is not true. I'm not sure what happened to the female sex, but they need to find a way to act human again.

So, who are you attracted to, anyway?

hexdeedeedee · 2026-05-02T00:29:41+00:00

I have no comment on the post itself since its a thinly veiled rant except that you have potential playing the violin. PTSD from a "forced" (by yourself) kiss? "avoid the psychological trauma of forced attraction"? *chefs kiss* delicious 🎻

RevolutionaryJob7908 · 2026-05-02T11:51:59+00:00

He doesn't have to be attractive to her, for him to meet her High Standards.

DGenerationMC · 2026-05-02T14:43:42+00:00

I don't know, maybe ask those specific men?

If they're the exact same men that do both of those things, then they should be easy to find, no? I'm sure you've got names or some kind of discerning features to tell them apart, yeah?

Attraction is not a negotiation and neither are generalizations, apparently.

matthedev · 2026-05-02T18:09:03+00:00

Personally, I only date women I'm attracted to. It only makes sense for a person, man or woman, to date people they're attracted to. It's just sour grapes, the people saying otherwise.

For men, if we want to increase the odds of attracting the kind of woman we're attracted to, there's the so-called "self-improvement": working out, dressing better, getting a higher-paying job, taking up more exciting hobbies, whatever is likely to increase the appeal to the kind of woman a man wants to date. Likewise, I'd assume a woman would consider doing the equivalent to make herself more attractive to the kinds of people she wants to date.

wtknight · 2026-05-02T18:21:35+00:00

Men mostly shame women for dating and marrying attractive men who do not treat them well, when they think that they will be the man who will treat them well. No man is going to shame an attractive woman who dates an attractive man who treats her very well. And no man is going to date an average woman who somehow manages to date an attractive man who treats her well (although they might shame him and call him a simp).

RycerzKwarcowy · 2026-05-02T19:24:32+00:00

The problem is unspoken premise, that anyone (women or man) has no control what he or she is attracted to, as you summarized as "attraction is not a negotiation". This basically means: never adjust your standards, no matter if they come from within, cultural conditioning or inducted by fiction/porn/insta/AI slop. Don't ever try to reason with it, because attraction is magical and if you can't be attracted to average person just leave it be and don't try to change that.

flextov · 2026-05-02T20:44:38+00:00

Marriages were arranged by the parents for most of history with little if any input by the people getting married.

I’ve never seen women being shamed for marrying men they’re not attracted to and I’m online a lot. That doesn’t mean that it never happens but it does suggest that it is fairly uncommon.

CarHungry · 2026-05-03T05:17:13+00:00

The idea of a woman taking some random incel on the internets advice is really really funny to me, so I'm going to choose to believe you actually did that, 100%.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2026-05-03T07:38:54+00:00

In a society where everyone is free to choose whichever mate they desire, it’s not a good situation when there is so much more desire for women from men than for men from women. This is bound to cause a lot of people to be unhappy. There aren’t enough men who are desired by women to go around.

Is there anything to be done about it? Is there anyone to blame? Not really. It just is. Maybe some kind of cultural change could make more women like more men but it would have to happen organically and cannot be forced. As you said, attraction cannot be negotiated. I kind of doubt it’s possible anyway.

My point is this is a problem that will cause frustration from everyone. No one to blame, but of course some guys are going to take out their frustration on women with these accusations. Not a good thing but it also is what it is.

Dense_Ad_6283 · 2026-05-03T11:04:42+00:00

I think you're confusing it with a betabuxx situation or situations where men complain about women complaining about long term compatibility issues with an otherwise attractive man. They don't say marry with those you aren't attracted to, they say use looks as a filter less initially so maybe I can show you who I am and we can connect at a deeper level or something

CentaurSpearman · 2026-05-02T01:57:35+00:00

A woman can love an unattractive man and marry him.

In this case, she's genuinely happy because something about him besides his looks still makes her happy.

A woman can also hate an unattractive man and marry him.

In this case, she's miserable because he's just the price she's paying to get something that's not him.

In the first case, people are pleased because she's happy and they're both satisfied more or less.

In the second case, people are displeased because she's making herself miserable and him miserable too.

I think the idea is that if a woman gives a fat, short, balding good guy a chance, she might be pleasantly surprised and like him for his character, not that she'll pretend to like him and pretend to want to be around him, but that she'll actually come around to like him.

Wishful thinking, perhaps?

Title	Why do men accuse women of having high standards, then the same men proceed to shame women for marrying guys they aren't attracted to?
Author	Lana_Sphyncter
Upvotes	37
Comments	196
Date	May 2, 2026 12:15 AM UTC (2 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1t1ail8/why_do_men_accuse_women_of_having_high_standards/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-men-accuse-women-of-having-high-standards.1579372 https://theredarchive.com/post/1579372

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