CMV - I think a lot of women's issues with dating could be solved by waiting, or abstaining from sex.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-02-19T23:22:28+00:00

[deleted]

Nobodyz_Nikki · 2021-02-20T10:19:08+00:00

I do get the gist of what you're saying because I don't think women or anyone for that matter should be having sex with people they don't want to have sex with. Or being tasked to have sex just because you like someone and want to be their significant other. However, sustaining from sex doesn't help women find committed partners. Making a man "work for it" is why men feel entitled already when they do simple things like pay for dinner, converse with or compliment women. They want to be reimbursed--paid for their work.They want their pay with interest and within 3-5 business days. 😒

blueXcat · 2021-02-20T01:30:24+00:00

As a sexual woman, I did the opposite

I have sex for fun, and commitment is a happy ending if it happens

daproest1 · 2021-02-19T23:52:07+00:00

Just read the title. Agree.

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geyejoe7 · 2021-02-20T12:32:09+00:00

For those of you saying that men will wait and wait until they get what they want and then dump, are wrong.

Players don't wait 4 months for sex. It's a couple dates at most and if nothing happens, they ghost.

My fiancée was naïve before and went on a couple dates with a player (she didn't know since she had little dating experience).

Eventually, in the 4th date he tried for sex but she denied him. He ghosted her right after.

Randalcunningham · 2021-02-19T23:49:27+00:00

Women enjoy sex too though and want to have it

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-02-20T01:37:35+00:00

To an extent yes, however the "make him work for it" mantra really only works for guys with little to no options, if that's the kind of guy the woman wants, cool but I doubt it. Best way for women these days as far as getting relationships is to read guys better, possibly invest in a dating app like an E-Harmony or something where there is financial incentive, and possibly even settle down a notch or 2 and build real chemistry with someone

MasterTeacher123 · 2021-02-19T23:32:34+00:00

IMO Waiting as a method of filtering who is for real is flawed for 2 reasons

1.)A guy can be “waiting” for you while smashing the entire community.

2.)A guy can be a complete loser who is only waiting because he has no other options. You’re the first woman who has given him any play in a year, you damn right he’s gonna wait. Making out, going on dates>>>>whatever he was doing before you

basedmillennial95 · 2021-02-20T01:29:57+00:00

While I agree in theory, 'waiting till marriage' died with the sexual revolution. Any woman who attempts it now (with the exception of extremely religious groups) is bound for disappointment. High Quality Men won't wait (again with the exception of extremely religious ones) and move on when it's apparent she's serious about it. Which leaves her with low quality men which she won't want and then the rare unicorn high quality man whose willing to wait but they usually pair off quickly.

alwaysonalongtrip · 2021-02-19T23:36:36+00:00

"seem to have this idea, men are just gross pigs who want sex only"

Men will literally fuck you and then say they always thought you were ugly. We didn't get this idea out of thin air.

We're never ugly enough to be left alone, but we're never pretty enough to be treated with respect.

I am currently retired from dating but I will consider dating and being retired from sex only. 😂

tiposk · 2021-02-19T23:55:59+00:00

I'm a woman who tried abstention to solve my dating issues and I can tell you that this "solution" ended up being a band-aid at best.

Abstaining from sex filters men who only want sex, but doesn't generally lure men who want a relationship. The few men who suddenly want a relationship because you didn't offer sex when they wanted either suffer from a madonna-whore complex, or are the type who falls in love with the chase. It's pretty much self-explanatory why these men don't make good relationship material.

I enjoy sex and I'm not willing to wait an inordinate amount of time to have it. Sex isn't a reward for his good behavior, it's something I do because I feel attracted to the guy. As good as "making him work for it" sounds, this strategy backfires by attracting the kind of man who likes to chase sex and that's the last thing I want when looking for a relationship.

As unpopular as this opinion might be, the constant fear of being used for sex says more about a woman's attitude towards sex than it says about the men who "use" her. At some point I decided to work on getting over that fear because approaching every as a potential user became exhausting. I didn't want to avoid getting used, I just wanted to be able to move on if I were to get used.

I didn't make the men who wanted anything serious with me wait. I just let everything happen organically.

IHaveABigDuvet · 2021-02-20T04:11:54+00:00

So are you saying people that abstain from sex dont have a myriad of sexual dysfunction? (Here's looking at you, Catholics).

Sex is a need for more people. It inherently isn't bad. I think if both partners are mature it really isnt an obstacle.

There's also nothing wrong with a strictly sexual relationship. Just be open and honest about your needs and expectaions. That's all that's being asked of you.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-02-20T01:39:57+00:00

Or we can expect men to be honest about what they want (a relationship, or just sex). If a man can't manage that, he's deserving of neither.

John_Oakman · 2021-02-19T23:18:28+00:00

You're assuming that having the discipline to keep a low n-count is useful for acquiring a good LTR partner, and I don't think that's the case. Most of the men being obsessed about finding low n-count women also tend to have other regressive/reactionary mentalities, traits that most modern women despise.

The real problem, as far as viability of LTRs are concerned, are the lack of ability for people to compromise. The +35 single mother that's done with her party days and the +35 virgin provider type male are in the same lvl as far as their RMV* are concerned. Yet both think they are compromising to an unacceptable degree when paired up, hence the resulting relationship usually devolve into which party can extract the maximum value out of the other rather than considering long term sustainability.

*both offer quite a bit of things, stuff like social legitimacy. Too bad that most modern societies don't really care for those things in their actions. Kinda like how most people publicly agree that diamond rings are extremely valuable but the resell value of them in pawn shops suggest otherwise...

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Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-19T23:13:18+00:00

[removed]

WillingMirror · 2021-02-20T13:05:04+00:00

I made a detailed explanation of my thoughts, but I cut it to the main point : if you don't have something as good as sex in the relationship, the relationship is about and for sex, simple. Women have issue of being lazy and use their sex as a canvas for commitment. Issue is they are not the only one to have a pussy. The only "issue" is not being worth much than there sex value, so yeah they can tell then they are "used" They indulged it. Overusing sexual promise is the issue, it come with a cost. Only my though x)

meatsplash · 2021-02-20T13:11:16+00:00

You got a lot of learnin to do. Your sample size of your “one girl you knew” isn’t really a convincing support for your claims. It’s one simple anecdote and you sound young af. Anyhow, careful you don’t go full redpill and start thinking you know something when you clearly don’t.

MisterShogunate · 2021-02-20T13:52:45+00:00

Women want attractive men. Attractive men usually have more than one prospect.

The feeling of disappointing a person you like and want to keep trigger fear of loss.

The advice of making him "work for it" is horrible since your relationship just becomes about sex 100%. Just say you don't want to talk about sex and that you will not have sex with him. Don't put an if in there.

midwesternMD · 2021-02-20T15:16:29+00:00

They might not have sex with as many partners, but I don’t see how abstaining from sex helps them find a fitting sexual relationship. And as a man who appreciates how sexual incompatibility will erode a relationship, I’d find an arbitrary “wait for a certain milestone before having sex” as rather juvenile/naive and a turn off in itself. Sure, men like me wouldn’t fare well in an abstinence society. But I’m not sure that abstinence will match women up with compatible partners either. It’ll really just match them up with partners who they happen to engage and who are patient enough to wait for that milestone to lapse. I view dating as a numbers game- the more people you (both men and women date), the more you learn about yourself, your relationship style, your relationship values, etc. And ultimately, the more likely it is you’ll meet and be able to identify a good match for you.

NotGoingoutofMW · 2021-02-20T17:47:13+00:00

It's all fine to let him wait 6 months but god make sure you can compensate for this. This mindset of being the judge and let the guy invest and do not only the heavy lifting but basically everything during the waiting time is going overboard and is no surprise they only want the one thing every women can provide.

Women say things like "I want us to get to know each other before sex" but then fail at conversations, teasing, resting bitchface almost the entire time, being passive, let him double and tripple text him and then are surprised why he bails out after sex. Of course many women actually think they are so nice to be around telling themselves "I made this one joke 2 months ago, so i can't be boring right?".

tl;dr. If you want the guy to like you more than for just sex then show him what he gets from commiting to you and would missing out on otherwise. Just abstaining from sex alone is to shallow of an solution.

naamshiko · 2021-02-22T01:25:28+00:00

I also ended up thinking like this but in a cynical kind of way. I have been celibate for a long while now exactly for this reason but I can’t help thinking it’s very silly because men whine about being sexless but then create an environment where women are either used as sextoys or shamed for having a sexuality. In results, some women now refuse to have sex “easily” and now more men cry about how sex is so hard to get 😅. Like, literally everyone would win if men were being upfront about their intentions and didn’t hate women’s sexuality, and they’d definitely get laid more often, but too bad for them🤷🏻‍♀️. I miss sexual intimacy but not to the point I would give it up for some random guy who isn’t worth my time and energy.

colgateexpert · 2021-02-22T20:40:56+00:00

If men leave you after they have sex with you then you're probably just a boring person. If men only wanted sex then male friendships wouldn't exist. Men don't leave you after you friendzone them because they only want sex, they do because they can have better platonic relationships with other men, without the pain of being constantly reminded that the woman you like doesn't like you back

edgar_vpacos · 2021-02-26T03:14:48+00:00

To address the main point of your post: if abstaining from sex was the way for women to succeed in dating... I would be a dating all-star. Lo and behold I am not.

A large number of men will not want a sex-less dating experience for a long period of time, and it is valid for them to value having sex with a girlfriend. In the alternative, many men who are with a woman who says she is waiting until marriage will expect her to either have sex after she "decides he is the one", or else to marry very quickly.

A woman like me who will do neither is not a real option for men who will not accept a sex-less long-term dating experience.

make him work for it.

I think that the truth is that many men don't want to work for it, and therefore many men won't. They will simply go elsewhere for a relationship that suits them better, and that is their right.

Skadi793 · 2021-02-20T00:06:32+00:00

Stop acting like a slut. We understood this stuff when I was a teenager, and girls who did act like sluts got reputations.

Show some self-control and discipline. Not only girls, but guys.

Sex in a few LTRs in absolutely fine. ONS, threesomes, getting piped down in nightclub bathrooms, wandering out of frat houses in the early morning hours after some dude tagged you --not fine.

For me, I'll take one high quality girl over 100 low.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2021-02-20T03:18:00+00:00

He is not yours until he commits.
Have multiple eggs in the basket (50+) male back-ups. (Rotated willing males once a week). Tinder is the best bet, only accept super likes and only respond to super likes. This reduces men with lower interest quicker. Matches go from 15,000 to around 5,000 or so. Select from males with higher interest investment. Cold approach (him pursing you) and Tinder are the most efficient ways to get easy commitment with proper filtering with physically attractive males.
Minimal to no emotional investment until commitment, but still behave interested and consistent.
Vet every male individually.
Adjust and gauge expectations properly to your current relationship relative to him and his 'type' - after going through over 100 multiple variation of "attractive" males, they all seem to fall in these categories, some overlap respectively: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kg558f/q4w_whats_your_side_of_the_story_with_the_women/ggcmi5p/?context=3 (ea. male responds more favorably to different stimuli, etc).
Stay fit, take care of yourself, look attractive, etc.
The proper male usually develops oneitis, invests earlier and falls in love quickly (much faster than you/the woman - physical attractiveness of the male seemed to be irrelevant (e.g., Chad of masculine-facial structure composed multiple personality types (some beta, feminist males, "blue-pilled", etc..) in variation across the board - although hypermasculine facial features seemed to me more common in criminals), so process is relatively easy. Attractive males also develop oneitis (just don't propose commitment until he does) and continue to spin plates and rotate through multiple males offering investments, etc.

missing_voice · 2021-02-20T00:17:43+00:00

I agree. I'd take the woman who makes me wait more seriously. It means that she has self-control.

2021-02-20T00:26:16+00:00

Unfortunately that ship sailed a long time ago. To quote Snoop Dogg, “You can’t make a hoe a housewife.”

reluctantly_red · 2021-02-20T01:26:24+00:00

Couldn't simply saying "no, we wont have sex until this point in our relationship" be able to filter out men who aren't serious?

It's going to filter out all the high-value attractive guys who have lots of other options (i.e. the guys women actually want).

Novadina · 2021-02-20T00:33:39+00:00

It sounds good in theory. But in my experience that just tends to result in getting in a relationship with a guy who doesn’t have sex as a priority at all, which for me it is, so we wouldn’t be compatible. Nothing like falling for a guy and building up what you thought was sexual tension, then the time comes and you have sex and he has zero interest in doing it more than 5 mins and once a week. I’ll pass.

Men who think good sex is a priority in a relationship will just not wait that long to have sex. Plus plenty of men who are desperate for sex are willing to wait months pretending to want a relationship just to get it! Seems crazy, but some men even seem to like the whole chase and deceit, they get off on the wait in a way, knowing they are going to ghost a girl as soon as she sleeps with him. If it was just sex they wanted, why wouldn’t they stick around for more sex?

I’ve had better luck just learning how to detect lies better, and then discuss relationship goals, and just have sex when both people want it. And when you trust you aren’t being “used” or whatever.

However, the claim of being used if someone chose to have sex with someone they just met seems disingenuous... I’ve had sex with men I might have liked to have a relationship with I guess, but I wanted sex with them too, so I can’t say I’ve ever felt used by it. And how would you even know you want a relationship on the first date anyway.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-02-20T01:15:50+00:00

If you’re suggesting that women are to blame for being used for sex, you’re gonna have the internet feminists screeching for years bro

OfSpock · 2021-02-20T03:04:11+00:00

Dating guys and not having sex with them is still tedious.

mjhrobson · 2021-02-20T05:46:33+00:00

Who have this weird view of history in which people were "abstaining". I mean did you even read your Shakespeare?

Romeo and Juliet. First night: Meet at party. Second night: having sex. Sure they got "married in between" but this was not a "great love story" it was a story about horny teenagers.

As is witnessed by Romeo whining about Rosaline his "great love" then seeing Juliet and in lust forgetting Rosaline even existed.

Also the poets of old were going on about sex and chasing women about as much as a modern rapper.

People have always been like this. Ignore the propaganda campaign of religion.

FrivolousMood · 2021-02-20T07:12:46+00:00

Women who abstain don’t have dating issues because they don’t get any dates.

LeatherDifference583 · 2021-02-20T12:34:14+00:00

I think abstaining from sex is the worst idea if you actually like sex.

Sexual compatibility is really important for most of us and this needs to be figured out early on.

Yeahyeahsono · 2021-02-20T01:30:27+00:00

I think the issue is that there are some women who also enjoys sex in its pure physical form so aren't super picky about who to do it with. But then, even if you want to go ahead and develop a relationship with one of those men, he's already compartmentalised you into the hoe role so what could have been a nice time that grew into something more turns doesn't happen.

ConsequenceThat6209 · 2021-02-20T00:29:25+00:00

Women and logic are like oil and water.

SteveSan82 · 2021-02-20T02:28:01+00:00

Women are ruled by emotions. Not logic. Whatever they feel at that moment is the right choice to them.

Before there were serious consequences to having premarital sex. Men wouldn’t marry you. You were branded the local slut. Women would avoid you to save their image.

Now men simp for them, marry them and breed with them only to get divorced and keep half his shit and the kids.

infinitofluxo · 2021-02-20T06:01:36+00:00

Male here. In my opinion, the thing with sex and dates is that "waiting" has nothing to do with the chance we are a good match and fall in love and stay together. If the guy doesn't want anything to do with the woman but wants to have sex with her, whether he is willing to be more patient only tells him how desperate he is or how much he enjoys the chase.

You, woman that wants to catch a man, be true to yourself, see if you are probably enough for him. Most women will want the best men and the best men will fuck lesser women when they feel like it. This is how a man can get laid easily, they pick up the ones that will probably think he is a catch, which most likely are women that are not up to his level. The poorer ones, ethnical minorities (when you are in the majority), overweight, uncultured, whatever you can use in your favor. I've had women chasing me after one night stands and they didn't even figure out we had nothing in common, I don't even hide how I am because I have very objective profiles in dating apps. Is is a rare case that a smart man will want a stupid one, or that a medium class one will want a girl that lives in a dumpster and is desperate for some guy's money to be able to eat properly.

I don't want to sound harsh, but we all have to be true to ourselves. See if the partner is of compatible level because this will be the indicator that there is a chance that someone will settle for you, otherwise it will be the case that someone is buying the "love" of others (rich men with hot women) or they only want the sex because there is nothing else for him.

Despite some specific age groups in certain cultures, I don't believe most people prefer to only have casual sex, most people will be open to relationships because we need company and love too. The problem is that dating apps facilitate that women can be picky and they pick the best options and the best options are probably not a good match, only a good fuck, at most.

Women, be realistic. I doubt a bland looking guy that could be your coworker at same rank is usually the guy that will pump and dump you.

cunningcaring · 2021-02-19T23:58:36+00:00

You don't have much experience is right.

eisenkatze · 2021-02-20T07:52:34+00:00

This can be a good idea for someone who's very intent on being in a LTR, can't vet men very well and isn't driven by sex.

For me I went into situations expecting nothing and even when I got dumb, caught feelings and got hurt, I have no regrets because "doesn't matter, had sex". I just like dick

Jakes1967 · 2021-02-20T07:22:37+00:00

I think a lot of women's issues with dating could be solved by waiting, or abstaining from sex.

Ah hell, the modern strong independent types are coming for you....

Title	CMV - I think a lot of women's issues with dating could be solved by waiting, or abstaining from sex.
Author	Depressedbadger97
Upvotes	92
Comments	306
Date	February 19, 2021 11:01 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lnsurv/cmv_i_think_a_lot_of_womens_issues_with_dating/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-i-think-a-lot-of-womens-issues-with-dating.741471 https://theredarchive.com/post/741471

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