Dear Women: You are not Oppressed

LikesTacos · 2017-01-26T19:09:50+00:00

“When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.” ― Thomas Sowell

Evets616 · 2017-01-26T19:32:43+00:00

Mens issues aren't addressed adequately, but articles like this will not help anyone take the movement seriously.

He makes an absolute comparison between western women and women in states that all would agree are dealing with overt, state-sponsored oppression. The handful of examples he gives are oppression. They are not the sum-total list of all possible forms of oppression. By setting up this list, he attempts to invalidate the whole protest

He makes vague claims about what possible reasons they could have for protesting and then cherry picks a paragraph from one article with a few specific reasons and then some nice vague reasons possible for protesting. This is a nice Straw Man that he sets up here where he can misunderstand and attack these reasons for wanting to protest.

Taxes on hygeine products are an issue when the country has policies in place like HSA and FSA's that people can set aside tax-free dollars for medical expenses. I personally use mine for allergy medications, shots, eye doctor visits and the dentist. Those medications and doctor's visits seriously affect my health and overall comfort. And yet those policies do not cover tampons, pads, and other products associated with every mature woman's menstral cycle. That's pretty bullshit that something that majorly affects the majority of women isn't covered. By the way, if you have a prescription, you can spend FSA money on your Viagra.

But the author here glosses over the principle with a monthly monetary value and then tries to say that asking for this is bad in principle as a gender specific law. He then compares this to men being forced to sign up for the SSA. I think the SSA signup being gendered and tied to so many important federal things is wrong and I support the elimination of the requirement or expanding it to both genders. But let's look at the actual effect it has: there hasn't been a draft in over 40 years. So any man born after 1955 hasn't had to deal with a draft. But nearly every woman born since then has had dozens of mentral cycles to deal with. Not being able to use FSA dollars on those products for women is an issue and the author's treatment of the issue is lazy.

The author next completely misses the point, my guess is on purpose, about Paid Maternity Leave. He cites the FMLA program's 12 weeks as proof of paid maternity leave in the US. His claim is again, made in the most lazy manner possible. Why? If you go to the FMLA wiki page, you'll see that it's not an explicit maternity program. It's a general 12 weeks per year, unpaid, that anyone can take, if they qualify for the program. The point of the program is to give you that time and protect it by not allowing your employer to fire you for medical reasons. It's not a gender specific giveaway to women. Yes, it is an unpaid block of time that can be used for giving birth, so it technically checks the box against the protestor issue of unpaid maternity but the law isn't a specific women's law. He misrepresents the issue.

The whole point of protesting over the lack of paid parental leave, and I personally fully support paid leave for both parents, is that the US is woefully inadequate in addressing this issue compared to nearly all other western, wealthy nations. If you follow the wikipedia link he gives, it talks about maternity leave in the US. The 4th sentence says that the US gives 12 weeks of leave for mothers under FMLA. The very next sentence, however, shows exactly the point that anyone ever makes about the state of leave here in the US:

This policy is distinct to other industrialized countries for its relative scarcity of benefits, in terms of the short length of protected maternity leave and not offering some form of wage compensation for the leave of absence

And even in the FMLA article, a nice table comparing the lack of benefits in the US is shown in the article section under controversy. The table shows how other countries all have paid maternity leave, with several also covering fathers as well.

Several of the claims that the author addresses I lean towards his opinion. Walking alone at night isn't something I'd call safe for many people, especially depending on where you live. Objectification is an issue, but not remotely on the level of health issues. And 100%, I agree that the plight of men as victims of domestic violence is criminally ignored here, and most places honestly. Women are not the sole victims of violence in the US, far from it. And I don't support the notion of systemic oppression of women in the west as compared to elsewhere.

And at the end, he tells women that they need to be more inclusive of men's issues and campaign for equality and not privilege over men. Sure, that makes sense if you buy into the rest of his claims where he's trying to show that women don't have any problems here and have nothing to complain about. Then, yeah, any complaining is for special things, not equal things. But he failed to support his major points that women are perfectly fine. So he comes off sounding like the feminists who say "why make a men's group? just support women's groups because we're already fighting for equality".

This isn't a zero sum game, and women and men like the author who try to turn it into one just set everyone else up for conflict. Women having issues with some things does not mean that men can't have issues about the some of the same things and also about other, different things.

ExpendableOne · 2017-01-26T18:23:40+00:00

wear penis costumes

Do you want to be arrested and be put on some kind of sexual offender's list?

greenbut · 2017-01-26T17:11:42+00:00

i totally agree, if you are going to march/protest something it should be specific...like paid maternity leave..that would have been nice...but this was just dumb...as a Hispanic women working male dominated field i'm not oppressed one bit and i think its opposite, men don't want to make jokes around me because they feel as though i might get offended ...ugg ...in reality its a step backwards from equality in my opinion, i have to make a lot of jokes just for the white men to feel comfortable around me to let loose a bit ....also men and women are different, physically and mentally (hormones) (see recent scientific studies which are now being done with that in mind), so stop it ladies i don't want my future daughter signing up for selective service

-bruce- · 2017-01-26T17:47:39+00:00

I am so tired of this false narrative.

We elected a president that said you should grab women by their pussies. He promised and has already restricted funding for abortions, which many women view as their right. Women are voicing their protest at that reality, and for promotion of women's rights generally.

This isn't hard to understand, and the false narratives promoted by posts like these just reinforce the line that the men's rights is anti-women.

It's the same narrative that says men shouldn't advocate for their rights because "they already have it good". It's a toxic sentiment on either side.

runnyyyy · 2017-01-26T21:37:06+00:00

why does this shit have so many upvotes.. content like this is destroying this sub the same way as some feminists destroyed the idea of feminism

DrewFlan · 2017-01-26T18:03:04+00:00

This is garbage. The author of this article didn't address Planned Parenthood at all, which was a major point of contention for many of the women who marched.

Awfulcopter · 2017-01-26T19:01:37+00:00

Author equates not being the most oppressed with not oppressed at all. That's the article. "Are things as bad for you as they are for Saudi Women? No? then things are perfect."

supercold1 · 2017-01-26T19:50:07+00:00

They're about to lose abortion rights. I've been MRA for years, but I think they have a legitimate concern, here. Let them protest.

Mike-Hawks · 2017-01-26T21:34:52+00:00

I don't consider myself a feminist and I think a lot of it is ridiculous and goes overboard, but this march was very necessary. And this article is complete garbage.

So the argument is, if Women here have it better than they do in Saudi Arabia then you aren't oppressed? Why the fuck are we using the middle east as a measuring stick for whether or not you are oppressed.

None of these feminists think they have it worse than Women in the Middle East. This is so dumb...

verdis · 2017-01-26T18:53:49+00:00

I truly hope you can understand the relationship between human rights and the laws that support them. Your arguments suggest you don't, which is unfortunate.

I would encourage you to meet with people who support abortion rights, and who provide abortion services. I think you'll find the factors involved more nuanced than you seem willing to admit.

graffiti81 · 2017-01-26T20:09:12+00:00

Give me a fucking break. We've got a libertarian redditor (because nobody else would be retarded enough to name a blog don't step on snek) who instead of preaching liberty and freedom to say and think what one wants is telling women to sit down and shut up.

LO fucking L

skywreckdemon · 2017-01-26T20:20:21+00:00

This is an awful article. Before I am accused of being against men's rights, I definitely am not. I just think this particular article is shit.

McFeely_Smackup · 2017-01-27T01:20:43+00:00

The Tampon Tax in California amounts to women paying an extra $7 a month for their hygiene products.

Well, I found the guy who has never bought a box of tampons for a woman.

A box sells for $6 to $8, the tax on that amount would be about $0.50 cents ish, not $7.00.

We can argue that tampons should be tax exempt, if we also agree that other hygiene items should also be, but let's not pretend that the 50 cents a month women are paying in "tampon tax" is the greatest injustice anyone has ever known.

bomi3ster · 2017-01-27T14:00:01+00:00

I can feel the fat women pressing that donwvote button here. You are not oppressed if you are a women in America. Go fight a good fight instead of taking a stand that does not matter.

truthserum23 · 2017-01-26T15:46:24+00:00

This makes too much sense. Logic should not be expected when the objective is ambiguous and irrational.

Elephantwalker · 2017-01-26T23:25:41+00:00

This is the post that is going to make me unsubscribe. I didn't think anyone was disputing women's issues, maybe the extent at the least. I thought we were here to discuss and bring attention to real men's issues like unfair divorce settlement, media treatment, statutory laws, etc. posts like this are ridiculous and take away from real problems

flannelsoup · 2017-01-27T00:38:19+00:00

Damn this got red pill real quick

PraiseStalin · 2017-01-26T22:23:40+00:00

"The future is female"

Now that's equality!

a_trashcan · 2017-01-27T03:41:05+00:00

Why do you people always act like women's rights are separate from men's rights in this sub? An article like this also dismisses the entire men's rights issue, not just the womens rights issue. How don't you guys see this?

Shirakawasuna · 2017-01-26T19:40:50+00:00

This sub seems to subscribe to the belief that fighting for equal rights means you need to belittle women's rights.

This is why you aren't taken seriously. Most of the comments that aren't critical of the post are just veiled attacks on women or arguing that women are privileged. No advocacy against a specific equality injustice, no organizing marches or political campaigns of your own. Just negativity directed at women, naive arguments that access to healthcare isn't an issue for them, etc.

You're the male equivalents of the anti-man feminist stereotype and I don't understand how you don't see it.

cullins1 · 2017-01-27T04:35:51+00:00

Hey according to his little quiz he could also say that African Americans immediately following the emancipation proclamation and the end of the civil war were not prosecuted against either. Whew, that's a load off!

bsutansalt · 2017-01-27T04:39:54+00:00

Archived for posterity.

http://archive.is/SPC2q

splodgenessabounds · 2017-01-27T08:48:47+00:00

I can always tell when a post on men's rights hits the reddit front page. I can even - going by time elapsed and UPVOTES FTW - tell when this one fell off the front page.

bradtwo · 2017-01-27T09:13:26+00:00

Keep in mind this is the same group of people who ignore the fact that when they participate in the pink ribbon marches more of the money they collect go to the CeOs than the research.

They don't want change. They just want to feel good about what they are doing. Positive group reinforcement. That is all.

2017-01-27T14:01:44+00:00

Is this menrights or lets whine and bitch about girls?

RubyOrchid13 · 2017-01-26T19:14:57+00:00

Actual majority of population, who vote at a higher percentage than men, who live longer lives, suffer homlessness several orders of magnitude less, don't have to sign up for the draft to vote, who are the majority of students in universities, don't work a fraction of the dangerous and dirty jobs men do to keep modern society running, have a huge advantage in the case of divorce... Muh oppression!

SF_CrawNik · 2017-01-26T21:39:31+00:00

I don't mean to sound like an ass. But what rights do they not have that men have? I've never seen a competent posts from them that I haven't just laughed at. I'm assuming 99% of the signs are kind of cherry picked on here.

2017-01-26T22:25:36+00:00

starts a slow clap

Daktush · 2017-01-26T22:31:05+00:00

59% upvoted

Wow you did some triggering OP

Katastic_Voyage · 2017-01-27T02:43:16+00:00

Massive brigading indeed.

Hirudin · 2017-01-26T19:02:07+00:00

At best, this march was a protest about the loss of a privilege (having abortions paid for by others); a privilege financed, ironically and overwhelmingly, by men who do not have the right to bodily autonomy that the feminists think women are losing.

sxales · 2017-01-27T02:04:39+00:00

This is a stupid argument, the "I have worse problems then you so you don't get to protest" bullshit needs to stop. It doesn't have to be us versus them. We all have problems and they all deserve fixing.

Holski7 · 2017-01-27T03:11:07+00:00

Idk, if someone who is elected claims they could grab anyones pussy without trouble... it warrants this kind of response. There are extremists who take advantage of everything, but this march made sense.

Rethgil · 2017-01-26T22:32:05+00:00

Are some people posting suddenly in the MRA section because they are actually white knight father's doing what their feminist daughters or wives told them to?

I ask because there suddenly seems to be an influx of people taking the traditionally feminist side of things whos account show they otherwise never post or debate this section, who seem to have quite large incomes from long held down jobs, have wives, and are at least in their mid thirties. And this has happened all since Hilary lost the election. Literally.

So either a whole new bunch of men have suddenly chosen to change their views and posts them in the MRA area, or feminists are trying a new tactic yet again. It would also fit because most feminists come from wealthy privileged backgrounds funded by middle to upper class dads. Very interesting stuff indeed.

iREDDITandITsucks · 2017-01-27T02:07:09+00:00

What is this garbage post? I like being subbed here to see our most upvoted posts talking of legitimate topics. But this post is none of that.

SlipperiPete · 2017-01-26T18:56:05+00:00

Saying that they are not oppressed counts as oppression to them. The cycle of victimization continues

willmaster123 · 2017-01-27T01:45:40+00:00

This is why people see the MRA movement as just an anti-woman movement. I would say a solid 60-70% of the posts here are just saying 'woman dont really have problems!'

YOU CAN FIGHT FOR MENS RIGHTS WITHOUT HAVING TO DISREGARD THAT WOMANS RIGHTS IS ALSO AN ISSUE!

This entire article is just embarrassing. Literally every single argument in the article was a strawman or a whataboutism.

Wmkcash · 2017-01-26T22:33:26+00:00

Holy fucking shit this thread. So much wrong (coming from both sides) in such a small amount of internet.

thetruthfl · 2017-01-26T22:09:57+00:00

This post should have about 100k upvotes. There is NO DISPUTE about anything the guy wrote in his blog.

Ooshkii · 2017-01-26T19:39:56+00:00

I feel like pointing to the extremes and saying "we are not that" is a bad strategy. The argument as it presents itself only ever leads to "hey it could be worse" which is not compelling when talking to an activist. The activist isnt looking backward but rather forwards and so a more useful appeal would be to throw to what forward progression from our current point is.

Additionally, i dont think all of the ducks are in a row on this one. The sanitary tax is a gender biased tax on essential goods. This does explicitly penalize one gender over another. Similarly, this article didnt address other women's health concerns. One of the biggest issues was the funding of planned parenthood and women's right to abortion for unwanted children or medically necessities. Similarly, a big portion of the march was about tone and harsh language coming from the highest executor in the land.

soundsaboutWRIGHT · 2017-01-26T19:33:25+00:00

"Men's Rights are the only rights!"

Mark-Man · 2017-01-26T22:49:28+00:00

Sadly, most of these women will never realize that men are the ones who are oppressed until it affects someone close to them...

Geralt-of_Rivia · 2017-01-27T03:07:06+00:00

How do I upvote this twice?

Codered222 · 2017-01-27T03:56:30+00:00

You forgot the tips fedora at the end of your title

Guack007 · 2017-01-26T21:08:00+00:00

Most awesome thing Ive read today!

2017-01-27T00:01:18+00:00

ITT: bullshit leftists posturing.

Trump will do more for men than all of the Democratic Presidents of the last 50 years put together. I guarantee that.

Women are not fucking oppressed. The opposition to this link is why I will never subscribe to this sub. The people downvoting this link will never subscribe either way, but men like me might.

MulhollandDrive · 2017-01-27T01:07:08+00:00

throwaway008 · 2017-01-27T02:21:50+00:00

I agree with some of the points made by the author. For instance, it's mostly men who work all the high risk jobs like working on high-rise construction and many similar hazardous areas. How come feminists wanting equal rights do not mention wanting to put in equal work in such jobs as well?

2017-01-27T05:46:44+00:00

I'm ashamed to say this is Infront of the beautiful Iowa state capital in Des Moines. Makes me hate my home state

TedTheAtheist · 2017-01-27T08:39:12+00:00

I really loved this article. Couldn't agree more. I'm so tired of feminism. We should be for egalitarianism.

lenin1928 · 2017-01-27T14:13:36+00:00

So men should stop making it difficult for other men. Let's band together and give men only a free pass.

Alkomb · 2017-01-27T14:31:18+00:00

the fact that they use pink is kind of hypocritical since feminists want to break away from female stereotypes. then again idk if they're marching for that reason.

Spurnout · 2017-01-27T19:52:04+00:00

It's interesting how divisive this article is for both sexes.

Gambizzle · 2017-01-27T19:55:38+00:00

I think it's a fair point to make that this style of protesting has made a lot of the people they are trying to win over angry and/or disenfranchised with their cause.

Better (and possibly less man-hating) styles could probably be used. IMO the single valid point is that people are confused why women wrote up this list and then protested. I'm not American, but it seems to me this was actually the guise of an anti-Trump political protest held right after his inauguration. Not gonna get political and express opinions on the president of a country where I don't like, but is this not correct?

Alkomb · 2017-01-27T22:46:31+00:00

Why do women think that only they're able to be victims, or whatever?

2017-01-28T00:36:35+00:00

is that sarcasm i detect?

connosaurus · 2017-01-31T14:48:27+00:00

I don't either of us are going to change our minds, we view this much too differently.

Banned_By_Default · 2017-01-27T04:10:53+00:00

This sub really has become just anti-women. This has nothing to do with mensrights at all. Like absolutely zero.

It's right wing politics. "I don't want to pay for that!! Reeeeee!".

It's not about wanting something simlar for men. It's not about free condoms or STD check ups.

No. It's all Trumpolitics and nothing else. Just look at OPs dumb ass comments. It's just garbage.

idonot · 2017-01-26T23:06:47+00:00

ITT: OP dealing w.all the trolls. Every response was spot on.

thost02 · 2017-01-26T20:39:16+00:00

Is the OP the OC? I would like to send the OC some gold :)

billy-_-Pilgrim · 2017-01-27T00:53:57+00:00

I'd hate to be a chick, shit sounds exhausting, one half of the population is judging my fashion the other is like 10x stronger and can rape me. I get dudes get raped too but thats like comparing car accidents to plane crashes.

Title	Dear Women: You are not Oppressed
Author	aG_Infamous
Upvotes	2181
Comments	478
Date	January 26, 2017 3:31 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5qartx/dear_women_you_are_not_oppressed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dear-women-you-are-not-oppressed.933235 https://theredarchive.com/post/933235

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