Any thoughts on this take on the “heterosexual double bind”?

pancakejourney · 2021-10-18T14:56:12+00:00

I only ever met a handful of men who I would call "emotional repressed". They wouldn't open up about their feelings even if their life depended on it. But surprisingly they were not automatically low EQ.

On the other hand I had plenty, plenty of men consume my time for free therapy.

Hardly ever would I receive the same open ear in return, it has happened tho.

Men would tell me how someone hurt them, how insecure they are. They would tell me how they are unhappy because their career isn't the way they wanted to.

After hour long talks I asked one if he also talked like this to his male friends and he said "No, I rather talk to women.".

Looking back it's probably because we women aren't as selfish and are conditioned to help and support.

Then there are also the openly emotional men throwing tantrums, throwing things, screaming, punching walls.

Why is anger not seen as an emotion when it comes to men?

Peak_Tree · 2021-10-18T14:27:15+00:00

I naturally cry when I feel anger and I've been acussed of being "MaNiPuLaTiVe" and kooked down for it. And men talk about women crying being a manipulation technique all the time.

In what world are women allowed to be emotional without consequences? I wana live there.

hopeful_flounder93 · 2021-10-18T12:18:06+00:00

Men aren't socialised to be "emotionally repressive", they are socialised to be selfish and entitled.

Have you ever been alone with a man? These dudes will try to unload an entire lifetime of emotional bullshit onto you before the fucking door even closes. They will whine about ex's, about bosses, about girlfriends, wives, family, and friends. They will whine about the state of the world, every little thing they don't like about society, and whatever goddamn minor stupid problem is irking them at that very moment. They will punch holes in walls, scream, and demand whatever it is they want with such fervent emotion, and if you let them, they will exhaust you by demanding free emotional labour for the rest of your life. I'm not exaggerating: I have seen women revolve their entire fucking lives around coddling a string of men. Sometimes husbands, sometimes boyfriends, sometimes bosses, and sometimes a string of losers on dating apps.

Just because they don't give back what they take does not mean they are emotionally regressive. They're not stupid, either. They know how to behave to get the promotion, to get that recognition, to be able to run entire countries and corporations. You think you don't need social and emotional skills to do this shit?

Listen, this women is asking us to believe the same men that demand sex from their wives and complain about dead bedrooms are incapable of understanding her when she asks for the fucking vacuuming to be done. When she asks for him to buy his own mother a Christmas card, or spend some time looking after his own kids. She spells it out for him, but he's too "emotionally repressed" to get it? I don't buy it.

It's not risky, they just don't give a shit about other people unless it benefits them.

wondertarget · 2021-10-18T12:07:33+00:00

I mean, they can just go to therapy like everyone else? I had an ex that would go on rages when I didn't want to have sex with him. He tried lighting my room on fire (we were sleeping in separate rooms at this point) by shoving pieces of burning paper under the door. All because I didn't sleep with him after he had been abusive.

InspectorGadget07 · 2021-10-18T12:08:18+00:00

I don’t believe men need sex to feel emotionally open. You can give it to them and still never get that. But if they get no sex they use it as an excuse for why they can’t have emotional intelligence or do any emotional labor in the relationship.

So it’s kind of a Catch-22. Mostly, I think they just use it to hold women hostage for physical gratification. Like they selfishly push us for sex pretending they can’t give in any way to the relationship without it and when you give it to them they still don’t give or meet your needs emotionally, basically putting you in a position where you have to leave them.

Oftentimes, they never had any intention of doing it anyway. They just wanted to make sure their physical desires were met. It’s selfishness.

Especially if you are not in a committed super long term relationship with them. They’ll claim to need that sex to feel close enough to you to do the thing you want. Then get it and immediately bounce. Put the utmost distance between you two

Muffcakelord · 2021-10-18T13:40:23+00:00

This is the blue pill side of reality.

The truth is: women are punished more than men for showing emotion AND for having sex.

Men are more often than not rewarded both for showing emotion in the form of anger and for having sex.

It's not like women are rewarded for their mainly falsely assigned emotion: sadness.

The reason the stereotypical hetero marriage problem she describes happens is because those men only date women for sex and treat her badly. End of story. The edge cases, a.k.a. whatever relationships that does not contribute to this norm, could be anything but mostly it all boils down to people who feel like they have to sacrifice more than they feel is worth for each other and that's just a result of people settling.

Solving the issue means full stop to pretending misogyny isn't a rampant issue like this woman apparently does (bohoo it's because men were brainwashed into never crying in front of their friends, they don't mistreat women and silence them because they hate them i swear), and actively fighting it by NOT supporting it and NOT hiding it. Cope has kept misogyny alive like paper to the flames.

ShieldMaidenLagertha · 2021-10-18T12:41:39+00:00

I don’t think men need sex to feel emotionally attached. I think the opposite, in fact, if you have sex too soon with them they are unable to form attachment.

Theboredshrimp · 2021-10-18T13:34:24+00:00

"Men need sex to feel emotional intimacy"

That's what they want you to believe, but it's actually the opposite

bookworm1896 · 2021-10-18T12:29:57+00:00

In my opinion it's not the same at all. So men might get peer pressured into not being emotional. But that's completely diffirent from the risks of sex for women. Women not only risk to be called a sl*t or similar if they have sex with many men. To decide to have sex with a man is for women to take the risk of trusting a man with their lives. He might decide to rape you if you change your mind about something or don't comply his every need, he might choke or hit you which could result in your death, he might stealth and slip the condom off, etc. And yes, it's not every man, BUT they don't come with labels so you'll never know which man is the one you shouldn't trust.

blueboobs- · 2021-10-18T13:10:41+00:00

She’s wrong. Men don’t neeeeed sex to feel emotional intimacy. Emotional intimacy is not the risk for them it seems because they give it freely with women they actually love. They deny it to those they just want to use. She’s setting up the age old merry go round of having girls think that tough stoic guy is someone she just needs to “soften up and heal” . Cut that shit tf out and throw that pile of bricks away!!! ...

curiouskait999 · 2021-10-18T16:31:39+00:00

This doesn’t make any sense to me. If men need sex as a precursor for emotional intimacy or to feel closer and more connected to their partners, why is the Madonna-whore complex so common? If any of what this user said was true, wouldn’t a man be more inclined to commit to a woman once they’ve slept together because he feels that it’s “safer” for him to do so? There’s so much more that just doesn’t make sense to me, and this reasoning seems like a way to absolve men of responsibility in a relationship.

repurposedschleem · 2021-10-18T13:47:44+00:00

Men absolutely do not need sex to feel emotional intimacy. He has male friendships, right? Those “Saturday’s are for the boys!!!” types? Highly doubt he and his buddies are all banging each other if they’re actually straight.

It’s a lie, a manipulation designed to get sex with minimal investment.

Also what woman on earth has had free reign to feel all their feelings without backlash? Shit, my garden variety assertiveness gets me called “abrasive” at work by the old-school dinosaurs and has gone on past evals where my male counterparts are told to be more AGGRESSIVE, not just assertive. Crying in front of a LVM? Oh you’re using your hysterical lady tears to manipulate him. Expressing anger? “You’re so cute when you’re mad!” Shoot, I couldn’t even be happy around my NVX without it turning into me needing to be taken down a peg or whatever was making me happy at the time was suddenly made fun of. Because enjoying scented candles and embroidery supplies are just “so cringe.” 🙄

This lady can fuck alllllllll the way off with her LVM-enabling video.

missisabelarcher · 2021-10-18T17:21:55+00:00

I'm sorry, but the whole idea of "men needing sex to feel emotional intimacy"...who does this idea serve? And is it really true? This girl is gonna have a rude awakening when she realizes her magical vagina doesn't open up a man's heart and he flowers into a warm cozy unicorn that will heal her anxious attachment.

We all know men who have sex and feel nothing but their own gratification. We also might have known men who can talk about their lives, perspectives and feelings without having to have sex. This whole thing is just patriarchal BS designed to keep women doing the emotional and sexual labor in a relationship while leaving men with no accountability.

Women need to learn to assert boundaries and not confuse the mutual reciprocity of a good relationship with overfunctioning and the co-dependent fulfillment of someone else's emotional needs over her own. Standards, boundaries and accountability all test whether or not your partner has some modicum of maturity -- or if they're essentially emotional toddlers who will throw a tantrum if you no holey for their pee-pee.

GlitterLoveAngel · 2021-10-18T14:02:51+00:00

Tbh I’m so sick of the whole ‘men can’t cry’ bs. I’ve seen way more men get emotional and cry irl and actually get comforted in comparison to women. As women, we’re taught ever since we didn’t even know how to read that we must be mature and being emotional is embarrassing and stuff. We’re also taught to hide our issues and feelings for the sake of peace making and not interfering with men's life and likings but if a man has a problem with us, even if it’s a HIM problem, we’re taught that we must do everything to fix that ‘problem’ for the sake of him and the sake of ‘love’.

And it gets so ignored in society. When a woman gets emotional, gets angry or cries, she’s called irrational, dramatic, attention seeking, faking, on her period, etc. whereas men who act the same way, ESPECIALLY in violent manners they’re called empowered, justified, King, etc.

It’s just like the trope where the women always has to sacrifice something just to benefit a man. Care about his feelings but what about the woman who’s been working hard to achieve the goal she has? We’re expected to drop everything for a man and tolerate all the bs he has because we’re not seen as human and we are LEGIT called btches for choosing not to and respecting ourselves enough to not do free emotional labor. We’re also not taken seriously at all because feminine=childish.

We’re expected to be mature to mold us into a free therapist and the back bone of a man and take on the burden of his problems, get overwhelmed by it but still have to manage it but then have to listen to the bs that men never get comforted but women fake everything.

This also causes women to feel sympathetic with toxic men due to the whole “He’s hurt deep down and with enough love you can change him and fix him!!” Like no. That stuff is not cute. We shouldn’t coddle men period. It literally gets women k!lled.

Also sorry for the messy writing, I’m in a rush.

MsWriteNow07 · 2021-10-18T12:16:22+00:00

I don’t believe this is true. Like it may be true for some people in the world, especially people of older generations, but I don’t believe this is a blanket truth for gen X and millennials. In fact I think it’s just the opposite. Because men don’t value their emotions, they are emotional whores. I mean how often have you had a guy who was just a friend, maybe even an acquaintance, someone who you barely knew, tell you all about his life story and his traumas and his issues and his little fee-fees? That’s what trauma dumping is and narc men and most men, really, do it with every woman when they know. I mean these men will keep you on the phone all night if you let them talking about every little thing that has ever gone wrong in their life and expect you to fix it! Far from being shy to show their emotions, the real problem with men is that they see women as emotional repositories and free emotional labor.

FDS_elderGoth · 2021-10-18T16:23:25+00:00

Women are allowed to be emotional? When we're angry, we're Karens. When we're frustrated, we're nags. When we're jealous, we're catty. When we're exuberant and excited, we're bimbos. When we're sad, depressed, or traumatized, we're damaged goods (note that fucking word "goods.") When we cry, we're either manipulative or fragile/incompetent depending on which position--harpy or helpless--makes him look better by comparison.

Also fuck everything about a man "needing sex" in order to function as an adult human in society and relationships. They don't need to get their dick wet to feel emotions or connection or the ability to do dishes or not shoot up a school. They want to get their dick wet because it feels good and their body count boosts their masculinity points, and patriarchy has so coddled men that they can't tell wants from needs.

This kid is very young, and she's gonna learn. Probably the hard way, like most of us.

the_ghost_of_ · 2021-10-18T16:46:20+00:00

Okay, this makes sense, sure, but around the 2 minute mark, I clicked in and yelled BULLSHIT.

Men think their relationships would be better and they'd show us more intimacy if we just fucked them more? NAHHHHH SIS. This is some more Men-As-the-Victim BULLSHIT.

The fact that men are SOCIALIZED a certain way does NOT hold a fucking candle to my actual human needs. Men KNOW they are expected to show emotions, they KNOW repressing them is unhealthy. They just care more about impressing their dude bros by fucking as many girls as possible than they do about emotional connection because men are hard wired for one thing and one thing only: sex. And most of the time, rape. And this whole thing sounds an AWFUL lot like men using their own shortcomings to guilt women into sex and gaslight us about our emotional needs being met if only we'd just fuck them more.

inlovewithaloser · 2021-10-18T17:26:15+00:00

I don’t like the whole “men need sex to feel loved” trope going on here. Seems like another naïve, pickme LibFem fantasy excuse that can be used to then say we owe random men sex because “dOn’T yOu WaNt ThEM tO FeEl LoVeD?”

No. They would fuck a McChicken if they could, it’s not about love for them.

ivesynthed · 2021-10-18T15:20:37+00:00

Risks of sex: r*pe, assault, disease, pain, distress, pregnancy, etc.

Risks of “emotional intimacy”: hurt feelings :(

Lmk what I’m missing here but I don’t see how the two can be compared. It’s almost as though she’s implying that it’s women’s fault that men aren’t opening up emotionally bc women won’t have sex with them - not like it’s the years of conditioning.

Lack of emotional intimacy is something to go work on at a therapist’s office, not the bedroom.

vbych76 · 2021-10-18T15:53:40+00:00

Again with that 'woo is me', I can't stand it, this time coming from a woman.. I call bulbsht! Tell me a single era, when this patriarchal society didn't allow men (and I mean white men with money and power) to do whatever they fck want and get whatever the f*CK they need to proceed with receiving it all , because someone else did the job for them.

Snugglyy · 2021-10-18T15:57:32+00:00

She was sooooooo close to making a point in double standards 101 but she then proceeds to do the mental gymnastics to contort and rearrange the entire thing into “heterosexual double bind”

She’s putting the task of teaching men emotional intelligence on the women he is having sex with. It’s unreasonable, if not dangerous.

Why not his mother? His grandmother? His aunts? His sisters? His female teachers? If it’s an issue with how he was “socialized”, then he needs therapy for the society he was received in. This advice is pretty much telling sexually active women to play therapist to random men.

Hhjjuuy · 2021-10-18T13:22:01+00:00

Stopped at like 25 seconds. Anyone who thinks being emotional is acceptable and risk free for women and who (even if they're aware of it) skates over all the negative outcomes for women regarding the perception of us as being emotional isn't someone who's going to say anything interesting or insightful.

sveji- · 2021-10-18T16:46:54+00:00

Therapy, they need therapy.

Efflights6 · 2021-10-18T18:59:52+00:00

Lol. Men see women as objects. That's it. I see plenty of men that bond with their males friends. That such a pick me explanation to have, men who treat women like shit and invalidate their feelings, don't want sex because they want to "emotionally bond", is more like they think their bangmaid is broken and is not giving out sex.

23eggz · 2021-10-18T19:03:16+00:00

I kinda died when I saw this on tiktok... it really over simplifies a very nuanced conversation and creates an unnecessary dichotomy...

She also really minimized the risks associated with women having sex too.. like its not just because its taboo to have multiple partners... there's PREGNANCY??? and also in penile-vaginal sex, the vagina is at a way higher risk of getting STIs... there's a lot more at stake for women and it is not equivalent to men feeling pressured to not express their emotions (which a lot of them don't feel pressured at all)

honestlyidkfr · 2021-10-18T19:56:57+00:00

Nope, not it. Women aren’t “conditioned” to show their emotions, we’re berated, demeaned, mocked, put down, disregarded for showing any emotion other than a quiet, polite smile. Angry, crying, frustrated, hurt? You’re hysterical, you’re on your period, you’re blowing things out of proportion, you’re too sensitive. How about being happy? You’re annoying, or “what the fuck are you smiling for?”

Men aren’t emotionally distant while still pressing for sex because they’re cOnDiTiOnEd, they do it because they’re lazy. Women will ask them to pick up the slack in the relationship and suddenly the woman is a nag, the man becomes bitter at being told what to do and withdraws affection and intimacy, but he still wants sex, so he uses her as a flesh light.

We raised a generation of men that were never taught nor made to work hard around the house, help out, express emotions in a healthy manner, try hard at school or work — instead we make their mothers and sisters bear the burden of housework, of managing their emotions. We promote unqualified men on the basis of having a penis while women have to fight ten times as hard for recognition in the workplace.

Sorry but I don’t like this tiktok. Blatantly off the mark on how women are socialized regarding emotion and is coddling towards men. Even IF this is how / why men are Like That in relationships, I’m not giving a scrote a pass because of his “conditioning” that made him be a lazy, sex addicted ass ✋

ETA: “Men need sex to have emotional intimacy” riiiiight, that sure explains the million phrases that describe stringing a woman along, having sex with her then immediately dumping. What do they call it, “pump and dump”? “Bust a load, hit the road”? Shit, they literally have fucking HUNDREDS OF THESE PHRASES. Just look up “pump and dump synonyms reddit,” you’ll have hours of bottom-feeding content to read. Must also be why so many men say “sorry I just need space” 5 minutes after ejaculating in a woman only to never be seen again. How many women were told “I just need space, I’m not feeling it” the night after? Look on any relationships subreddit.

aquietsword · 2021-10-18T19:31:01+00:00

I'm so tired of this bullshit narrative that women are socialized to be emotional or whatever. We didn't grow up in some safety bubble where our emotions were celebrated, we all grew up in the SAME SOCIETY that links an outward display of emotions to weakness. WE DIDN'T SOMEHOW ESCAPE THAT. A vast majority of women I know I've never seen "be emotional" and yet they still understand empathy.

And what's the takeaway here? Does she think we should just have sex when we don't feel connected because men are so broken and somehow we have to be the martyrs? No.

queeninprogress · 2021-10-18T23:11:59+00:00

Ffs enough excuses. They treat us like shit because they WANT to and they don't care about us. They have plenty of emotions and no problems expressing them, caring about us just isn't one of them. They're not emotionally repressed, they're selfish and a lot of them hate women.

shockingupdate · 2021-10-18T15:33:23+00:00

By this logic, I guess asexual men just straight-up don't exist

xNayxNayx · 2021-10-19T01:45:57+00:00

Soooo the “Angry Black Woman” and every level of danger associated with that accusation isn’t a thing.

K.

alpinepunch2021 · 2021-10-19T03:33:05+00:00

Why did they even call it a double bind in that video? A double bind happens when no matter what you do you get punished in some context (e.g. being seen as pushy and disagreeable if you voice an opinion and being ignored and exploited if you don't). This doesn't even seem like a double bind to begin with.

aluriaphin · 2021-10-18T18:12:35+00:00

My take away from this video is that heterosexuality is broken and homosexuality is the answer 😂😂😭🤔🤔

BlackGirlKnickers · 2021-10-18T19:20:41+00:00

Give her a Nobel prize.

Title	Any thoughts on this take on the “heterosexual double bind”?
Author	Just_Raspberry_7459
Upvotes	546
Comments	89
Date	October 18, 2021 11:56 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/qal73c/any_thoughts_on_this_take_on_the_heterosexual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/any-thoughts-on-this-take-on-the-heterosexual.1078848 https://theredarchive.com/post/1078848

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