So this is equality

Wizzad · 2012-12-02T18:27:21+00:00

"If this was a 29-year-old male and a 17-year-old female, I would be inclined to order some incarceration,"

Is that quote real? Is that even legal to say for a judge?

edit:

It seems that the quote is not 'true' in the sense that the content of the quote on its own does not reflect the idea of the quote in context. The judge himself was asking why this case was any different from the same situation with the genders reversed.

www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/145np6/so_this_is_equality/c7a6ndo

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1842&dat=20060920&id=Is8dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UscEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3828,2604571

i are pant correctly responds, in my opinion, 'But girls lie about their age all the time, and the guy still gets in trouble...'

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/145np6/so_this_is_equality/c7a722t

Neon25 · 2012-12-02T21:45:19+00:00

It's not an actual quote from the judge.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1842&dat=20060920&id=Is8dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UscEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3828,2604571 "

"If this were a 29-year-old male and a 17-year-old female, I would be inclined to order some incarceration", said 3rd District Judge Mark Kouris during Cameo Patch's sentencing hearing. "Why is this different than that?"

"

It was a response to the defense saying that the teacher should face no charges, to which the defense explained that the boy initiated the sexual tryst and lied to Patch saying he was 18.

mantasradzas · 2012-12-02T21:06:48+00:00

I don't feel there should be punishment in this case, the same should apply if the genders were reversed, I think. We should still fight for equal treatment, but I think it would be more rational in both cases that if it were consensual it shouldn't be a problem. He's over 16.

That's just me being crazy, of course.

tenhotuisku · 2012-12-02T19:47:39+00:00

Well, this seems consensual, so I don't think really that there should be jail time anyways. BUT, the fact that the judge said that shows how screwed up this whole case could have been.

KindredBear · 2012-12-02T19:46:53+00:00

performed oral sex on the boy, though no sexual intercourse had occurred...

dafuq?

dbe · 2012-12-02T21:04:16+00:00

What's disgusting is that a 29 year old and a 17 year old of any gender combination is illegal for any reason.

Russacky · 2012-12-02T20:35:25+00:00

Nice.

forzion_no_mouse · 2012-12-02T19:47:38+00:00

well she is hot so I don't see the problem, this is every high school guys dream. If she got pregnant the guy should have to pay child support because it is in the best interest of the child. /s

Teh_Ent · 2012-12-02T23:23:44+00:00

Niceeeeeeee.

anotheradam · 2012-12-02T20:59:44+00:00

At 16 or 17 I was more than ready to make my own decisions sexually. I think most males are ready for sex at that age and would willfully choose to have it. The fact that they went on a date should show that she wasn't forcing him either.

samofny · 2012-12-02T20:46:12+00:00

With a name like Cameo Patch, she can get away with murder.

WhyYouAreDisparaged · 2012-12-02T20:09:04+00:00

No?

Who said it was?

2012-12-02T23:22:03+00:00

IMO this is wrong because of the abuse of the teacher/student relationship, not about age. Age of consent is 16 in much of the world, including most of the USA. A 17 year old, male or female, is capable of consenting to sex. The age difference laws are a bit absurdist, and probably unnecessary anyway. If the sex is mutually consensual age difference shouldn't be an issue.

DerickBurton · 2012-12-02T20:15:37+00:00

Oh for fuck sake. If you start to fancy your students then all you have to do is quit the teaching profession. These "teachers" are moronic, and it seems like any idiot can be entrusted to educate the next generation of consumers these days.

2012-12-04T20:11:17+00:00

What kind of idiot names their daughter "Cameo"?

2012-12-02T23:02:05+00:00

I would let her blow me

chunkmuffins · 2012-12-03T00:17:20+00:00

Nice..

sojywojum · 2012-12-03T00:51:37+00:00

My 6th grade teacher touched girls in appropriately for years before I had him, and over a decade after before a girl he touched forced him to retire. No criminal charges. The high school volleyball coach had sex with 3 girls on his team, and bought the team booze on away games. Didn't even lose his job. Statutory rape isn't always prosecuted, regardless of gender.

Asriel_13 · 2012-12-02T21:32:03+00:00

Double standards at their finest.

electriophile · 2012-12-03T04:42:59+00:00

Utah resident here. Totally ass-backward state, conservatism and traditional gender roles reign supreme, thanks to the good old Mormon church. A lot of MRAs complain that some women act like children; the LDS church makes that one of their primary focuses (speaking from experience as a female ex-mormon). Women literally have zero agency, they're just precious little angels who are pressured to marry as young as they possibly can to keep them as ignorant and naive as the day they were born. While men are to be the rulers of the household, the breadwinners, and therefore the most culpable for really, anything. Because of this mentality, criminal courtrooms are particularly lenient toward women, and family court is especially hard on men. It's an utterly unpleasant state to be in, and I laugh at anyone who thinks traditional gender roles are a solution to the bias against men.

I also think it's fucking hilarious that she's from Tooele, as nearly everyone I've met from there is an idiot hillbilly.

Rusty_shoe · 2012-12-02T23:30:14+00:00

Maybe this is besides the point, but I feel that 17 is old enough to consent to oral sex with an adult. Then again, I am in high school, so perhaps I'm biased.

jerkel · 2012-12-03T00:27:47+00:00

Niiiiiiicceeeee

2012-12-03T01:14:31+00:00

State of the victim is taken into consideration when making these rulings. I'm guessing the women got her sentence suspended and is on probation because the kid she had sex with likely testified in her favor (e.g. that he wanted it and that there was no abuse of power). Hopefully she was fired at least (I would be very surprised if she wasn't).

Girls are more likely to take the victim route and testify heavily against their offender which is going to land the offender somewhere in the deeper end of the possible sentence.

I think this is men and women's rights issue actually. Girls take the victim route more often because if they don't they're typically shamed for sex while guys are rewarded for it.

This is bad because girls who aren't victims are encouraged to act like them while guys who ARE victims are encouraged to NOT act like one.

Anyway just think this is one of those cases where this is an overall a gender inequality issue on both sides and not just a men's rights issue.

I wish people would realize that a lot of the men's rights issues like this have roots as women's rights issues (if they aren't direct repercussions) and vice versa. Too often I see people here (and in feminist groups) really "taking sides" when are problems our one in the same.

THUNDERCUNTMOUNTAIN · 2012-12-03T01:15:31+00:00

Why must they always be good looking?

gsabram · 2012-12-02T22:28:37+00:00

Sounds like the judge is purposely opening the door to the possibility of an appeal to the Ninth Circuit or SCOTUS. It would be interesting to see either court determine the constitutionality of disparate sentences based on gender. There would be no other rational reason for a judge to go on record to voice their reason to discriminate under the color of authority.

Tl;dr: He's appears to be on our side, inviting legal precedent to stop this sort of gender discrimination in the criminal sentencing context.

oozles · 2012-12-03T05:00:32+00:00

I was once told that "When you have all the benefits, you will still lose the benefit of the doubt."

Such a thing fits with male legal rights it would seem. Along with the perception of a male-dominated society come the perceptions of absolute male power. Unless one changes, the you can't reasonably expect the other to.

Hessmix · 2012-12-03T12:55:19+00:00

deleted

ttnorac · 2012-12-03T17:01:48+00:00

You know, almost all the time I'll back up the information on Men's Rights. This time, I have to disagree.

In this case you have to take into account that boys and girls are very different. Despite all you hear about equality, this still holds true. They are built differently, develop differently, and they learn differently. Boys all fantasize about the hot teacher. When this kid messed around with his teacher, that was a great accomplishment. It raised his social standing.

I don't think this was a big deal

TimothyGonzalez · 2012-12-02T23:27:41+00:00

Nice.

getfuckingreal · 2012-12-03T00:09:19+00:00

Ok consider this. Perhaps the problem is that we are criminalizing sexuality of minors. Consider a good looking 29 year old male teacher taking out a 17 year old female and performing oral on her to orgasm. When I was in high school there were plenty of girls that would love that, just like there were guys who'd love a BJ from a hot 29 year old female teacher. Perhaps 17 years olds are capable consenting to sex, we're not asking them to make a life altering decision. Instead of women getting off easy, men are getting it too hard, it's just sex.

noodleworm · 2012-12-03T18:53:08+00:00

Even if it was a 17 year old female, 17 is old enough to know what their doing and to give consent. Yes I understand the abuse of power in unacceptable in teacher, that should result in being fired. I really think consent laws needs to be less black and white. Theres no reason a man should be treated differently

feelindebonair · 2012-12-04T17:40:37+00:00

I don't really think that she should be sentenced (if it was consensual and all, which it seems to have been), but I would hold the same standards if the situation were reversed. I think that quote is reprehensible and he should be immediately fired.

justskidding · 2012-12-03T04:14:24+00:00

As a Utahn, I never did trust Tooele county. Too many vowels, sounds too silly. Too-ILL-uh.

MissSuperSilver · 2013-04-05T13:43:19+00:00

People don't understand equality

MinimaL_SC · 2012-12-02T22:36:48+00:00

DISCLAIMER This is not what any sane person who supports equality is looking to achieve. As noted in the top post, the judge is a fucking retard. He is clearly not qualified to judge any case, ever, and you have to be a fucking cancer potato if you think this judge is a quality member of any sane/competent feminist group.

You ALL know this is not equality, and the title of this post is a complete circlejerk starter.

sibqm_lmvm · 2012-12-03T01:59:01+00:00

This is bullshit. People shouldn't be arrested for having sex with 17-year-olds.

the_goats · 2012-12-03T16:03:48+00:00

so unfair.

kruiseKontrol · 2012-12-02T22:09:50+00:00

Meanwhile, when people try to calmly address the problems of suicide amongst boys , and boys lower educational achievements they get screamed at and called rape apologists and supporters of the patriarchy. Our world is insane.

SCCROW · 2012-12-03T04:17:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

mikesteane · 2012-12-03T06:34:44+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2012-12-03T13:09:03+00:00

I'm a female and this disgusts me. That wasn't a date. It was a case of a sexual predator taking advantage of a kid. She should have gotten jail time out of it.

Puck_marin · 2012-12-02T20:42:48+00:00

As an aside, for every case like this (i.e. student/teacher sex, regardless of gender) how many do you think go unreported? I mean, it seems like this happens A LOT these days but back in the 90s when I was a student you never really heard about it.

funnyfaceking · 2012-12-02T21:58:03+00:00

write to him http://www.utcourts.gov/judgesbios/showGallery.asp?dist=3&ct_type=D#3011

OverlyAggressiveScot · 2012-12-02T21:58:16+00:00

Cut her some slack, how would you feel if your name was Cameo!

primetimenine · 2012-12-02T21:59:26+00:00

The judge clearly has an impairment to his ability to set forth unbiased and fair rulings, and should probably be striped from the bench. That being said it won't ever happen because if proven all of his cases would have to be put under review and our court systems couldn't handle it.

MaziarShahi · 2012-12-03T01:12:47+00:00

Here in sweden, the age of consent is 15. There are greyzones for circumstances were the age difference isn't a lot and one of the kids is under age. The system works well and thus noone is thrown into prison for having sex with someone who is old enough to understand what sex is and prefers an older partner.

MisterDonkey · 2012-12-03T01:35:12+00:00

It's not as much disturbing about the details of the relationship as the judge's opinion of it.

Methaxetamine · 2012-12-03T01:36:09+00:00

Sometimes I think that the reason people say that if it's an old man and young girl then it must mean the guy is a pedophile, and the girl a victim...Perhaps they think this because people generally believe woman are more stupid and naive?

But then when it's the other way around...the young guy isn't stupid and naive as well?

What does everyone else think? Am I being biased or is there something anyone else notices?

Edited to make sure my grammar and spelling was better than before. Sorry about that.

LordOfGummies · 2012-12-03T14:01:45+00:00

SUMMON THE SRS THERE IS WHITE MALE BASHING TO DO!

PokemasterTT · 2012-12-02T23:49:05+00:00

If it was in my country, it would be legal.

kernowgringo · 2012-12-03T00:57:42+00:00

http://i.imgur.com/qwJpA.jpg

mutilatedd · 2012-12-03T01:28:18+00:00

Where were these teachers when I went to school?!?

FuzzyLogick · 2012-12-03T01:49:23+00:00

That is a fucking stupid law anyway. 10 years for either gender is stupid, this is obviously consented. Any consent should be forgotten, what a Country to live in where that is illegal, but you can fuck a horse is most states. The fact that you guys are pissing over this instead of the actual law is as bad as being in /r/mensrightscirclejerk

2012-12-03T10:29:27+00:00

Voted up… then voted down for saying “equality” instead of “equal rights”. A confusion that is half the cause of the whole damn problem!

RebeccaRed · 2012-12-03T15:55:28+00:00

We've all had at least 1 hot teacher in school that we WISHED had gotten with us.

I'd say 10 years is way too much for her.

But that 10 years is way too much for a guy as well.

I want Gender Equality to be: Men's Punishments reduced to Women's level. Not women's punishments increased to Men's level.

I feel increasing prison sentences would only FURTHER increase our overfilled prison population.

This is useful for pointing out hypocrisy for sure, let's just make sure we make things equal in the correct way.

Grayphobia · 2012-12-03T03:56:12+00:00

These board is as bad as TwoxChromosomes

VoodooIdol · 2012-12-03T13:58:34+00:00

I think this goes to show that men are just as bad as women when it comes to misandry, and that we need to work harder to get the equality message out.

01zerrz · 2012-12-03T02:07:03+00:00

Dude really, this is stupid as fuck. Kid got his dick sucked I'm sure it was all good.

DownVotingCats · 2012-12-03T02:34:14+00:00

This isn't the place for our fight guys. Some 17 year old got a blowjob and we are up in arms? We are really grasping at straws here. Our society needs to get a fuckin' grip. We have more important things to spend out energy on.

NutsOnYaChin · 2012-12-03T04:34:11+00:00

Niceeee.

GabbiKat · 2012-12-02T23:19:37+00:00

Ok, I'll throw my 2c in for 2 reasons.

When I was male I joined the NAVY at age 17. Shortly after 17 I was in bootcamp and then to A & C School. I was out of bootcamp before age 18, many months before. We were allowed to drink on base at age 18 at that time, but shortly after I turned 18 it changed.

So, legally, with my parents permission, I joined the military and was able to kill a person, not drink and not get married and not vote. But sex never came up because it was a given I was a "Adult".

Here where I settled a friends younger sister dropped out of high school at 16 and tried to finish on her own. She started secretly dating a 30 year old but nobody in the small town told the police. She ended up marrying the guy recently. She is now 18 and he is 33.

While I agree with it not being right, I hope someone can see where I am coming from on these feelings. There is a double standard on this issue but its slowly becoming less and less after a person reaches age 17.

Dilemma9Lives · 2012-12-03T01:15:10+00:00

What in the hell, I live in Tooele. I go to a different nearby school with her daughter, they look exactly the same. An LDS family as well.

Wolfhoof · 2012-12-03T06:38:16+00:00

This kind of logic just doesn't make sense to me. A sixteen year old boy is never taken advantage of and always wants it but a girl is the exact opposite? Nobody has ever given me a decent explanation. The argument is always "well 16 year olds are stupid and don't know consequences." But it only goes one way, for some reason.

m4tthew · 2012-12-03T06:49:10+00:00

Yeah, it sucks that the judge said that but 17 is at the age of consent.

Edgemere · 2012-12-03T07:03:11+00:00

That last line is such a trigger.

lanahyde · 2012-12-03T07:44:18+00:00

I thought that, across the board in American, that the age of consent for males is 16. I could be wrong.

Saerain · 2012-12-03T07:50:43+00:00

Isn't it also true that the age of consent in Utah is different for males (18) and females (16), making this even stranger? Or has that changed recently?

^{Edit: Well, Wikipedia says nothing about it. Either it changed in the last three years or it's a false memory to begin with.}

jorge-052 · 2012-12-03T08:01:56+00:00

Hey I live in tooele lawl. This town is full of surprises.

kinyutaka · 2012-12-03T14:00:59+00:00

In Texas, that would have been legal anyway, if the younger one was 17.

R3Dscar13 · 2012-12-03T07:07:28+00:00

UTAH...

JarlaxleForPresident · 2012-12-02T23:59:30+00:00

this must be the most pathetic, whiny post i have ever seen. mens rights? we OWN the WORLD, gentlemen. Man the fuck up. grab your balls and make life your bitch. that 17 yr old had the right idea.

2012-12-03T04:30:54+00:00

I know a lot of people are feminists here, but seriously she looks pretty hot, as a 17 year old I would be happy... Look at things from his perspective, what if she did get 10 years in prison? Can you imagine the guilt? I would be absolutely devastated.

Equality is fine, its especially fine when it comes to guardianship, dad's can be as caring as any woman...but this is not the same. It's just not. Deal with it. 17 yo scoring with that hot little bitch? Hell yeah. Its not like she raped him, which is something where male equality is also really fine at. Male rape exists...but in this case it wasn't rape. They went on a friken date for christ sake. Why do males go on dates?

I think the reason people are so against this sort of thing, is because they feel totally insecure about this shit.

ether-i-am · 2012-12-03T04:44:12+00:00

Lol @ victim.

2012-12-03T14:51:02+00:00

If I had a good thing going like this with some hot young teacher I would've done everything in my power to keep it quiet.

MinimaL_SC · 2012-12-02T21:53:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

duchovny · 2012-12-03T04:45:06+00:00

Props to the student.

Oh, I forgot /r/mensrights is filled with a bunch of pussies.

JoeClever · 2012-12-03T05:24:57+00:00

Don't tell me that 17 year old you would be fucking ecstatic about this shit happening to you.

johnterryisa · 2012-12-03T01:42:49+00:00

so with 16 being the age of consent this isent a mater of law this is a matter of context is it apropriot for someone in a posithion of trust to youse that trist for sexually gratifing purpos i feel not however, outside school howers and off campus, nice! nice!

summiter · 2012-12-03T05:13:26+00:00

I agree that the punishment should be equal, blind to the sex of the defendant. However, having seen and met some of these high school football players who look damn well better than me and at least 25 years of age, I can change my illusion of a 29y/o woman going down on a pre-pubescent boy. Times are changin, yo.

femstora · 2012-12-03T07:22:06+00:00

Nice

Bulletspawn · 2012-12-02T20:35:36+00:00

I think "Good for him". If the genders were reversed, I would think "He fucked up", fire him.

Are MRA for equality or for common sense?

Ratmotored57 · 2012-12-03T13:21:56+00:00

Who says the kid didn't seduce her?

Not_A_Complete_Loser · 2012-12-03T02:05:40+00:00

I'm sorry, but is it not completely possible that the boy wanted her to do it? I mean, I don't know about the rest of you but when I was seventeen I would have killed to get some action on with some of the hotter teachers in school.

If that is in fact the case then jail time would be extreme as a punishment. A suitable punishment would be suspending her from teaching, or honestly, leaving the whole trial alone and letting her off. The boy was seventeen, basically legal and as far as sex is concerned he knows what he wants. Why are we making a big fuss over this?

wetzler09 · 2012-12-03T06:25:27+00:00

Damnit!! Where were all of these sexed up teachers when I was in high school?

Title	So this is equality
Author	invertedcross
Upvotes	2428
Comments	317
Date	December 2, 2012 5:35 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/145np6/so_this_is_equality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/so-this-is-equality.1007773 https://theredarchive.com/post/1007773

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