Mandatory paternity/DNA testing

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-12-07T18:41:19+00:00

You realize the 3% represents only the men who tested because they suspected infidelity, right? And not 3% of the overall population?

harmonica2 · 2024-12-07T19:59:59+00:00

As for France making paternity tests illegal, and governments still wanting the wrong guy to pay for them, why doesn't the government just court order the right guys to pay who are the actual fathers? Wouldn't that make more sense?

SnoopyDru · 2024-12-07T18:42:59+00:00

You really compared trusting a stranger and trusting your spouse.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-12-07T19:29:29+00:00

How about this:

Women can bring pepper spray to all dates for the first month of dating without having to explain and without the man taking offense.

AND

Men can require paternity tests for any pregnancy that occurs during the first month of dating without having to explain and without the woman taking offense.

There you go, even Steven. That IS the comparison you’re making, right?

MissJeje · 2024-12-08T10:43:55+00:00

That’s not even comparable. In one instance you’re showing distrust in a stranger and the other you’re showing distrust in someone you supposedly love and have been with for years potentially. What would be comparable is if your wife or girlfriend of years just decided to bring pepper spray out on her date with you “in case” you decided to attack her. As a man wouldn’t you be pretty offended by that?

Rule_Number_7 · 2024-12-07T23:33:21+00:00

I never understood the issue with men wanting paternity tests. The sad reality is people cheat. How many people would have said "My partner would never." and trusted them 100%, only to learn that their partner cheated on them. It's a reality of life. People do shitty things. If you haven't cheated and know the baby is his, you should be OK giving him that peace of mind. Though you know you haven't cheated and never would, and though your partner no doubt wants to say you haven't and never would, it's always an unfortunate possibility that no one can truly discount no matter how much they want to. If it was, everyone who has ever been cheated on and found out about it would have seen it coming, and no one in the world would find out the child/children they were raising weren't actually theirs.

Poppy_Luvv · 2024-12-07T20:14:03+00:00

There were 3.7 million babies born in the USA last year. A legally valid paternity DNA test cost around 300 dollars on the cheap end. So mandatory paternity testing would cost over 1 billion a year on average.

Most people are not going to want their healthcare costs to go up due to others bad relationships. At best you could argue insurance should cover it if requested (no idea if its not now) Fathers who have doubts have the right to seek the test. Fathers who do will also have to deal with whatever fallout out that entails.

As for the current population of people finding out their father isn't their biological father- infidelity is not the only cause. Women have kept babies conceived in assaults with their husbands support and never told the child. Women have discovered they're pregnant from a previous relationship early in another one and the man agrees to raise the child. Most people who were conceived with sperm donors were never told. That used to be the norm for couples experiencing male infertility, it was recommenced to never tell the child. Hundreds of people have found out their biological father was their parents fertility doctor. Their mothers thought their husband's sperm was being used. Their parents were both victims.

And lastly, sometimes even in infidelity, the father knew. They just decided to continue the relationship. Is there outright paternity fraud and deception? Of course. But many people learning through a DNA test in adulthood will never know for sure.

KittyCatKnight · 2024-12-08T18:25:22+00:00

I will die on the hill that women who are opposed to mandatory paternity testing are not to be trusted, that they either have cheated or they haven't cheated but don't want the capability to lie to a partner if they do cheat and fall pregnant so they can trick a man in to raising a child that isn't theirs.

This isn't hard to understand. Men can be tricked in to raising a child that isn't theirs so giving men the ability to ensure the child is theirs so that their entire life isn't a lie is morally objective, if you say this is wrong then by every measure, you are a bad person in this regard.

This happens, it doesn't matter how much it happens, it happens. Shaming men or threatening that you would break up with them for wanting to make sure they never turn out like one of those that do believe their partners only to find out later in life that their family life was a lie and that they are too old to make a real family, is evil.

Podlubnyi · 2024-12-07T22:46:24+00:00

It's real easy to invalidate an issue when you know you won't ever be meaningfully affected by it.

Funnily enough, women care a lot when a baby switch happens at a hospital and it's a woman who ends up unwittingly raising the wrong kid. That's why hospitals take footprints and use tags, and why there's a media shitstorm whenever switches happen. Try telling her DNA doesn't matter, so shut up and carry on raising the kid you have.

Fair-Bus-4017 · 2024-12-07T18:56:57+00:00

Dude you are comparing someone bringing a friend to meet a stranger. To you acusing the love of your life of cheating on you. These situations aren't remotely the same. In one you don't know the other party and in one you should know them almost as good as yourself. (that being said if someone bringing a friend on a date is really annoying.)

I would definitely be fine with manditory paternity tests, but I am not gonna pay for it. Because lets be real, you won't get the majority of people on board with it because of the money. People aren't gonna give up their hard earned money for an issue that they don't think that matters. This goes for both men and women.

So if you are so paranoid about this topic. Just bring it up early in the relationship and then later when you two decided to get children. That way there are no surprises and they can see where you are coming from. It sounds like you don't want to be with a person who wouldn't want to do this for you anyway. This would literally be the easiest and most practical solution.

fucksiclepizza · 2024-12-07T19:43:43+00:00

Pepper spray is illegal where I'm from, I've never known anyone personally who's had a woman bring a friend to a date, and I trust my wife and don't support mandatory paternity testing because it's not actually needed. If you want a test then go and get one. Don't project all your insecurities onto everyone else.

AestheticAxiom · 2024-12-07T22:06:27+00:00

You ever notice how when women bring a female friend or pepper spray to a date, a lot of men get offended? They say, "Oh, so you're accusing me of being a rapist/murderer? Why are you even with me on this date if you don't trust me?" And then women say, "Oh, it's just for my protection. It's smart not to take any chances."

In the same vein, if a man asks his wife/girlfriend for a DNA test to be sure the child is his, then she says "Oh, so you're accusing me of being a cheater? Why are you even with me if you don't trust me?" If a man were to say "Oh, it's just for my protection. It's smart not to take any chances.", I betcha all of women's rhetoric about how "protecting yourself should take precedence over the other person's feelings" goes straight out the window.

The obvious, glaring problem with your reasoning is that in the first scenario you're likely a relative stranger, while in the other she's the mother of your child.

Those are obviously apples and oranges. It'd be more like if she had to keep a pepper spray on her bedstand to sleep next to her husband of five years.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-12-07T18:47:54+00:00

If you have serious trust issues with your spouse, you shouldn’t be having kids with them.

alotofironsinthefire · 2024-12-07T23:03:17+00:00

If you have a baby with a woman, you don't know well or trust, it's perfectly fine to get a paternity test

abaxeron · 2024-12-07T21:59:24+00:00

You ever notice how when women bring a female friend or pepper spray to a date, a lot of men get offended?

The only thing I might get offended over is her "protection" being so inadequate. Get your burly cousin and a rubber shooter, we'll get shitfaced with him, take an Uber, and paint the ugliest warhammer miniatures at my place later.

SteveSan82 · 2024-12-08T04:50:10+00:00

Why would you bring a friend to a date? That’s really rude and implies you want a free lunch. I never heard anyone complain about pepper spray

CreepyVictorianDolls · 2024-12-08T07:46:40+00:00

Okay, if I kept bringing friends and pepper spray to dates with my husband, whom I have children with, then the comparison would be more accurate.

The argument still stands - just do the test if it bothers you so much!

Or at the very least admit that it has nothing to do with convenience or necessity, you just want Big Daddy Government to hold your hand and Talk To Your Wife for you, because you're a bit of a coward.

Zabadoodude · 2024-12-07T18:55:03+00:00

Well presumably you should trust your wife more than just some stranger that asked you out on a date.

Regardless, you're allowed to be put off by whatever you want. Personally, I wouldn't want to date a woman that's so paranoid that she won't go to a crowded, public place with a stranger she's interested in. Not because I'm offended, but because I don't want to be with someone that's that afraid of men.

the_1st_inductionist · 2024-12-07T19:11:04+00:00

Let’s call female opposition to mandatory DNA testing what it really is: women not wanting their egos hurt.

Support for mandatory testing is driven by irrational fears. You can know this because there is no objective morality that underlies their views. Their views are not based on what’s factually necessary for themselves to thrive.

You ever notice how when women bring a female friend or pepper spray to a date, a lot of men get offended? They say, “Oh, so you’re accusing me of being a rapist/murderer? Why are you even with me on this date if you don’t trust me?” And then women say, “Oh, it’s just for my protection. It’s smart not to take any chances.”

This is not an even remotely comparable situation for mandatory DNA testing for wives.

In the same vein, if a man asks his wife/girlfriend for a DNA test to be sure the child is his,

A wife or girlfriend isn’t the same at all. And it’s mistaken to group them together here. Asking your girlfriend of one month for a DNA test isn’t the same as asking your wife.

[An investigation into 23,196 DNA tests conducted by FamilyTreeDNA showed that 3% of the tests revealed that the person’s previously-thought biological parent wasn’t their biological parent.]

These statistics aren’t helpful to you. Because you can learn to approach having a child reasonably or not. And I highly suspect that the rate is lower among reasonable men.

If he guesses wrong about a woman, he loses 18 years of his life raising a kid that wasn’t even his.

If you’re having a child with a woman based on guesses, you really shouldn’t. You don’t need to.

It’s real easy to invalidate an issue when you know you won’t ever be meaningfully affected by it.

Are you in the position where you’ll be meaningfully affected by the negative effects of mandatory paternity testing? Where you’ll find a woman who loves you, marries you because she loves you, have children with her and then be affected by a mandatory DNA tests? Is that a real possibility for you?

uknowimright9 · 2024-12-07T22:08:15+00:00

You have the right to get a paternity test. You don't have the right to want it to be mandatory so that your pussy ass can shift the blame onto the government or pass on the cost to others.

doggiedoc2004 · 2024-12-07T22:58:59+00:00

You are perfectly free to feel offended if a girl brings a friend or pepper spray with her on a date. You are free to surreptitiously test your children. You are free to let the women you are dating and in LTRs know that you will want a paternity test and that it would be a deal breaker for you if that person doesn't agree.

Women are entitled to feel however they feel about their significant other demanding a paternity test out of the blue. And it absolutely can be a proxy for trust.

And no, I don't really want to pay for mandatory testing for all births so that's on you.

toasterchild · 2024-12-07T19:53:56+00:00

Let's not pretend that there a huge difference in offense depending on who you ask for a dna test. If a one might stand gets knocked up they would likely expect it. If your asking your partner of years who has been very devoted and never shown a sign of being unfaithful it will likely cause relationship damage.

Being more wary of strangers or people who have a history of lying makes sense

platinirisms · 2024-12-07T21:43:36+00:00

Your first example is a woman going on a date with a man she’s never met 1 on 1 before.

Your second example is a man who’s been with her wife/girlfriend for years, possibly even gotten married, and had a child together.

Very very different situations that are not comparable at all.

It would be comparable if the man had a one night stand with a woman and asked for a DNA test. Or if a wife brought pepper spray in case her husband randomly snaps.

TopShelfSnipes · 2024-12-07T18:51:32+00:00

It should be mandatory to order child support in a custody proceeding - with the caveat that the assumed father can waive this right if he wants.

This ridiculous notion that every child who conceives should do a paternity test at birth, however, is just that - ridiculous. And, before birth, it threatens (even if it's by a small %) the health of the baby to order one.

IcyTrapezium · 2024-12-07T20:41:55+00:00

I’ve never seen a man be offended I have pepper spray on my keychain. If I put pepper spray on my nightstand every night to protect me from my husband possibly turning violent, I’d understand why he was offended. If a casual fling wants a paternity test that makes sense to most people.

Absolutely nothing is stopping men from performing paternity tests but the man. In my country you can get at home paternity test kits. If men aren’t doing this, it’s because they don’t want to. Many men don’t assume their wife is having another man’s child and performing a paternity test is him essentially saying he thinks there is a good chance he’s a cuckold. That doesn’t warm many men’s hearts.

GGMcThroway · 2024-12-08T02:39:35+00:00

There should be a database of all male DNA so errant baby daddies can be tracked down and forced to pay what they owe.

"B-but that's not fair!"

You want to accuse all women of being cheating whores by default, but have no plans in mind to keep the men honest. If you want to force sweeping nationwide testing over a 3% incidence rate (at most), you're going need to to balance it out with more than just "durrrr dat means da man doesn't gotta pay child support because it's not his!!!"

2024-12-09T00:25:15+00:00

Anyone who disputed OP's claim is defending cheaters.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-12-07T20:01:37+00:00

Nobody should trust someone they are on a first or second date with. You don’t know that person. Everyone should trust the person they’re having a fricken baby with, otherwise they shouldn’t be having a baby with them. Horrible comparison.

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relish5k · 2024-12-08T03:32:26+00:00

are we now expecting the same threshold of trust for a stranger and an intimate partner / spouse, somehow in the name of parity?

there is a vast difference in requesting a paternity test from a one night stand vs a spouse. bad analogy.

flipsidetroll · 2024-12-08T17:49:02+00:00

I don’t know anyone who would bring another woman on a date. Meet in a public spot, why would you need to?

So while I can understand and get behind mandatory dna tests, there is something deeper going on here…… it’s mostly redpillers who push the “why aren’t dna tests mandatory” narrative. But what is so curious, is how they don’t want to get married because “the government and courts side with women” and “why would you invite the government into your relationship?”, but the second they want something that suits them, they basically invite and beg the government to make it so. It’s such a weird disconnect. They want to go mgtow, but they won’t if the government does this for them. They will push crypto for all it’s worth “to stop the government controlling them” but then want dna tests. How do they not see these contradicting ideas?

FYI, if tests are to become mandatory, you need about 10 x the present number of labs. I’m sure you agree that knowing if you have cancer has a slightly higher urgency than knowing who’s your daddy. So you want it to be mandatory? Then be the change, open loads more dna labs and approach the government with facts.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-12-08T18:57:17+00:00

Because you are accusing her of being a cheater.

If you want to be sure of paternity, then get a test. This is a "problem" that already has a solution.

SayuriKitsune · 2024-12-09T16:35:04+00:00

How can you compare both situations? One is meeting a stranger and other one is about your partner that you are suppose to trust.

To be honest the positive side of this, would be having everyone's DNA on a database so crimes could be resolved faster. Specially rapes and murder.

LostWanderer88 · 2024-12-11T07:43:08+00:00

It's usually the cheaters, the would-be cheaters, the siblings and/or friends of cheaters the ones that protest

Front_Wing_2950 · 2024-12-15T08:30:10+00:00

I'd use a different analogy if I were you. You go on a date with a stranger so it's reasonable to want to be safe. If you knock up a woman after one night it's reasonable to ask for a paternity test, I don't know why anyone would be offended by it. It would be closer to a prenup situation for stay at home moms so that they don't go broke and left with nothing in case of divorce

alwaysright0 · 2024-12-07T22:22:48+00:00

3 % not the dad means 97% ARE

This is not a risk most people face

Icy_Ad_4544 · 2024-12-07T18:44:34+00:00

I don’t have know any women who have said they would be opposed to paternity testing. The video clips you see of this online are rage bait that want you to interact so they can get $$$ for views.

HappyCat79 · 2024-12-07T18:46:57+00:00

I would give zero fucks about a mandatory DNA test. I had to get a mandatory chlamydia test when I was pregnant that all women have to get in my state. It wasn’t a choice for me. I didn’t get offended by it. 🤷🏻‍♀️. Literally zero fucks given.

My ex was a total thundercunt and accused me of cheating on him several times (projecting) and I’m surprised he never demanded a DNA test.

As an aside, his niece committed paternity fraud. She tricked a guy into believing her baby was his knowing damn well she wasn’t. He found out when she was over a year old and he loves her and is still a father to her, although it ended the relationship. He’s with one of my friends now and they finally had a baby who is 100% his. Kid looks just like him. I’m happy for him that he has his own biological child and admire him for continuing to love the girl (now 12) who calls him “Daddy” even though she isn’t his biologically. He is a good man in my book. My ex’s niece is a total piece of shit, which tracks, because so is her mother, uncle, and grandmother. All cheaters. All liars. All narcissistic fuckheads.

ETA: I am disagreeing with the OP because I am a woman who wouldn’t be bothered by it and because I don’t agree that all men would walk away from a child who isn’t theirs despite finding out before the child would even remember him.

He was attached to her before she was born, and lots of men have zero issue raising a child who isn’t theirs biologically. Adoption exists, step parenting exists, etc.

EulenWatcher · 2024-12-07T19:05:23+00:00

The difference between bringing a pepper spray and requesting a DNA test is in the timeframe. Some people go out on dates with men/women they barely know or don't know at all - they met them online. Most couples have kids after years of dating and living together. A pepper spray is also supposed to prevent something bad happening, while a DNA test checks whether your partner got knocked up by another man.

Basically the timeframe and implication are different. It's one thing not to trust your date, it's another thing to suspect your long-term partner or spouse without much grounds. A better comparison to DNA test would be STD test after each business trip. I am convinced that most men would be pretty offended if their partner said that they aren't going to fuck them after their business trip until they get an STD test.

Nevertheless, I get both sides here. Men do not have the way to know for sure. It's a matter of trust, and not everyone is okay with it. It's something you should discuss prior to cohabitating and planning kids imv, and you should spin it as an anxiety problem and something you want to do to ease your nerves. Not as "I do believe you are that kind of a person who could have cheated on me and done paternity fraud to me".

I told my husband that he's free to take the test for any our potential babies, but I do not want to hear anything about these test. Do it for your own reassurance, don't expect me to do it for you or participate in it in any way. I know I've never cheated nor ever will, so I do not need it.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-12-07T20:50:10+00:00

There's a big difference between not trusting a total stranger and not trusting a partner of many years.

My husband told his friend where he was going the first time he came over to my place just in case I turned out to be a bit stabby or something. I wasn't offended, sounded smart to me. I would be offended if he did that now, after we've been together for half a decade.

Asking a ONS or a casual partner for a paternity test is something most people would probably agree is perfectly fine. You don't know this person, they might have slept with someone else for all you know, there is no trust or expectation of fidelity from this person. In a LTR, however, you're supposed to have built up that trust and there is an expectation of fidelity, and of course, it would be very offensive for your partner to accuse you of breaking that trust. You can still ask for a paternity test if you want, but you can't expect that the accusation of infidelity isn't going to have consequences for the health and stability of your relationship.

I'm on the fence about mandatory DNA testing for a bunch of reasons*, but if it did become mandatory, oh well, I'd comply with it. I just think it would be a lot easier to just ask your partner for a test if you want one, and accept that it might affect your relationship. It does seem like for a lot of guys it's more about having their cake and eating it too, and not about some kind of great concern for men at large.

* how is the information going to be stored? would you have to pay for it out of pocket or is it covered by your insurance? is there an an option to opt-out if you don't want it? is there a robust enough infrastructure for all these extra new DNA tests? would it affect the time it would take to process other DNA tests? Depending on the answers to these questions, I could go either way.

PattayaVagabond · 2024-12-10T00:52:53+00:00

Considering that 90 percent of women cheat and 2/3 of children are not of the father that thinks its theres, yeah should be mandatory testing. We don't live in the days anymore where adulterers could be prosecuted So its obviously run rampant to where you'd be hard pressed to find a child that knows who their real dad is.

Cultural-Ad-8486 · 2024-12-07T21:01:31+00:00

You ever notice how when women bring a female friend or pepper spray to a date, a lot of men get offended? They say, "Oh, so you're accusing me of being a rapist/murderer? Why are you even with me on this date if you don't trust me?" And then women say, "Oh, it's just for my protection. It's smart not to take any chances."

Yes, in this situation this is actually extreme paranoia. I can understand when someone (male or female) is in a dangerous stop and has concerns about their safety. I actually have pepper spray myself and have had to use it.

But I really don’t understand this...Why does a woman go on a date with a man who doesn’t inspire her trust at all? This is a very stupid act and a sign of extreme paranoia.

In the same vein, if a man asks his wife/girlfriend for a DNA test to be sure the child is his, then she says "Oh, so you're accusing me of being a cheater? Why are you even with me if you don't trust me?" If a man were to say "Oh, it's just for my protection. It's smart not to take any chances.", I betcha all of women's rhetoric about how "protecting yourself should take precedence over the other person's feelings" goes straight out the window.

And regarding DNA tests, the situation is also controversial. It is completely normal to want to do this when there is justifiable uncertainty. With negative experience with fraud in the past, with adultery in this relationship, etc.

But I can also understand women who don’t like DNA testing. This is practically an accusation of adultery, and if a man is unreasonably unsure of the paternity of his children, then he should not have been in a relationship with this woman at all.

Let's call female opposition to mandatory DNA testing what it really is: women not wanting their egos hurt. They just don't wanna be stereotyped and gender profiled as lying infidels, in the same way that men don't wanna be stereotyped and gender profiled as violent rapists.It's real easy to invalidate an issue when you know you won't ever be meaningfully affected by it.

I agree with this.

It should not be the case that men are considered rapists and pedophiles by default, and women are completely harmless. No, we are all human and we can be cruel to each other and it doesn’t matter if it’s a man or a woman.

But the problems with security in life are different for men and women, just as men cannot feel the experience of women, and women cannot feel the experience of men.

Title	Mandatory paternity/DNA testing
Author	Accomplished-Yam5566
Upvotes	20
Comments	249
Date	December 7, 2024 6:37 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1h8yz97/mandatory_paternitydna_testing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/mandatory-paternitydna-testing.1537873 https://theredarchive.com/post/1537873

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