why aren’t men happier about the fact that they can improve themselves to be more likeable to women?

ComfortableJeansGuy · 2026-07-18T20:34:24+00:00

Likeable isn't always a good thing. You can be liked for being easy to take advantage of.

A woman liking you because you're kind, caring, sweet and attentive has a very different feel to a woman liking you because you have money and money adjacent things that you give her access to.

I've been loved by a woman for my volunteer work with stray animals, returning lost pets to their owners and work with disabled kids.

I've also had a woman become enamoured with me because I had more money than anyone she'd ever been with.

One was a multiple year-long relationship, the other disgusted me and I cut her off and never spoke to her again.

The difference between these two feelings is going to be akin to the difference between being loved, and hiring a prostitute to pretend that she loves you.

Men are also valued for their attractiveness, obviously, and youth, contrary to what the internet would have you believe. With no difference between the genders.

Also, men are valued by body count as well, as Large cross-cultural study finds your “body count” affects your desirability, with little evidence of gender bias. Again. Contrary to what the internet would have you believe. Which, to be fair, if you've ever spent any amount of time with people romantically offline, should be pretty obvious.

I mean, talk to a woman about it irl. Virtually everyone I've spoken to about it has used terms like man-whore derogatorily when imaging a partner.

I understand why people would be thrown off, because online, sleeping with around 100 partners a year and losing count is looked at as totally normal, but data from the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the National Survey of Family Growth show that the median lifetime number of sexual partners is around 4 for women and 6 for men, by age like, 50.

Couple that with how a drastically higher percentage of men find women attractive, then women find men attractive, and you're looking down the barrel of a pretty unforgiving gun.

It's just that to be valued and loved, men not only have to pass the same physical standards as women, but also pass even more shallow standards.

It's not that men have different standards to hit, it's that they have additional standards to hit. And those standards are pretty shitty.

Fine-Double6335 · 2026-07-18T20:45:28+00:00

Because it’s hard to be truly self aware, acknowledge that you have things to improve about yourself. It feels like a verdict has been passed on you. And not a good one.

And often it can hurt. Especially if you are surrounded by people who are also stagnant. They don’t want you to change or get a new perspective on yourself. Inertia is comfortable after all.

DietTyrone · 2026-07-19T01:24:19+00:00

How come some fat people feel a little bitter about the fact that they're invisible until after they lose the weight? As if their existence only has meaning once they fulfill certain superficial standards.

owthathurted · 2026-07-18T20:35:24+00:00

Realistically, if you're genuinely trying to understand why, the accurate explanation is authenticity.

Nobody wants to be valued for their job. Nobody wants to be valued for their "financial stability". People don't even want to be accepted for their "gym bod". People want to be accepted, valued as they are.

If you have to work out to get a girlfriend, you're not actually being accepted for who you are. You put in an immense amount of effort to fundamentally change yourself to be someone who is "acceptable". Same with financial reasons, you have to ask, would this person be with me if I wasn't paying all the bills? The answer would often be no, as you were only capable of attaining the relationship in the first place through financial utility.

It comes down to genuine, complete acceptance, being valued for who you are - not your utility, especially because your body can change, your employment status can change. What's left when that happens?

Gravel_Roads · 2026-07-18T20:36:53+00:00

Even as someone who did the work, this is a silly question.

No one wants to have to do hard work with no guarantee of success.

Jip_Jaap_Stam · 2026-07-19T00:07:52+00:00

Several points to make:

A lot of men can't improve due to disability, poverty etc.
Some women don't like "improved" men; they want a natural, not someone who's had to work on themselves.
Men are judged on their performance , but they're also judged on their looks - as every woman on here will tell you - and personality. Obviously, it's easier to only have to qualify in two areas like women (looks and personality) rather than three like men.
Everybody wants to be accepted for who they are. Being told we'll only be accepted if we change a lot about ourselves and play a role is disheartening.
One's ability to work and improve can be impeded over time due to illness and other life events, and the knowledge we can get discarded if we no longer perform is not reassuring.
Effort without guaranteed reward is never going to be desirable. Imagine an employer telling you they might pay you when you work. Or a recipe that says "if you follow these steps, you might end up with a nice cake". Or a pill whose manufacturers claim that it might get rid of your headache. Nobody would be impressed by any of these options, so why would men be excited to devote years of their life to self-improvement that might work? Said men may decide to work on themselves anyway, because they don't want to be lonely. But why do you think they should be "happy" to do so?

Logos1789 · 2026-07-19T00:04:18+00:00

The answer to your question is that some men don’t have to improve to get the results that the unsuccessful men seek.

ZennedGame · 2026-07-19T02:12:18+00:00

Because we don't get to put our biology on hold.

Ok-Ninja-8165 · 2026-07-19T04:41:19+00:00

It often mean "I can be loved only if I become different person and/or wear a mask all the time". Or it can be unachievable in practice.

Avanni24 · 2026-07-18T20:28:08+00:00

because it's difficult and doesn't always work.

nightcall379 · 2026-07-18T20:44:24+00:00

they complain about having to be financially stable, working towards being confident and “having game” etc

Because none of that nonsense matters

If you're tall and attractive you're getting girls even if you're broke, insecure, and awkward

The only thing you're getting by "le working hard" is sloppy second leftovers of those tall and attractive men, who don't even love you and only settle for you

If you have so little dignity that you're willing stoop down to that filth, sure, go for it, whatever makes you happy Lmao

the men who lament about these things the most also say that the most important things to them in a woman are her beauty, youth, body count.

The point is that men don't collectively lie about what they're attracted to

Women do

wouldn’t you rather be judged on how hard you work than be judged on your looks and age?

The point is about what "IS", not what "Should be"

If you live in a world where you ARE only judged on your looks and age, you simply not wanting to be judged on your looks and age, won't change anything Lmao

wtknight · 2026-07-19T01:00:15+00:00

A lot of men don't believe that they really can improve themselves much, or enough to attract women, at least. It is kind of like taking something on faith for men to believe women that less attractive men can improve themselves enough to be attractive.

just_a_place · 2026-07-19T04:11:35+00:00

Because we eventually realize that women are not worth the effort and it tends to suck all the happiness out of any endeavor to pursue them. Then we're left trying to figure out how to build back our own self worth without women.

men usually treat the fact that they have to work towards being desirable to women as a negative.

No. We treat it as a fact of life. what we resent is women being manipulative in order to extract value out of men.

Mission-Necessary111 · 2026-07-18T20:48:40+00:00

How does the following statement make you feel?

"Women don't deserve love unless they spend a significant portion of their time, energy, and money changing who they are in order to appeal to the male gaze"

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2026-07-18T23:08:00+00:00

You can change everything but the immutable. There's a hard limit to self improovement. Sometimes it just feels like a Sisyphean task

just_a_place · 2026-07-20T05:16:21+00:00

Because the improvement has to ceiling. There is no finish line in that race, and the perpetual rat race to constantly be proving ourselves to women who in turn offer nothing of value other than just sex means that the weariness of it all very quickly cancels any motivation we ever felt to even seek women's attention in the first place.

In short, constantly putting on a performance just to sustain women's approval makes women just not worth it.

This is why after sex it's very easy to just dump a girl and seek peace instead. We pump and dump not because we didn't like the girl from the start, but just because we are fucking exhausted! After sex, peace and quiet is the next goal - and women the enemies of both, that's why we dump them.

Major-Platypus2092 · 2026-07-18T20:40:21+00:00

I don’t want the kind of woman who demands lots of money or a six pack or whatever. And I found one! Good news is I didn’t demand she adhere to any sort of shallow metrics either, just a chill girl who loves me.

Zabadoodude · 2026-07-18T23:01:19+00:00

Why aren't people that are struggling financially happier about the fact that they can improve their careers to make more money?

Many people lack the aptitude and/or drive to improve. Or even the awareness to know what they need to work on. The ones that have what it takes, just do it, and aren't the ones complaining, so you don't hear from them much.

brassbuffalo · 2026-07-18T21:29:35+00:00

Self-improvement is currently framed as "be better than you currently are" which is a goal that can never be truly achieved. You can always improve, which leaves people constantly feeling like they aren't enough. There is no finish line, there is no end, there is no enough. The rat race has spread from the corporate world into your love life and your sense of self. Keep running rats.

Livid-Log7463 · 2026-07-18T20:41:16+00:00

I can’t imagine anyone wants to be in a position where they have to put in “work” just to have a chance while the other group gets it by default.

Santa-Teresa · 2026-07-18T21:12:22+00:00

Why don’t women appreciate they have to work harder for the same amount of money than men? By your logic, they should.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2026-07-18T21:15:09+00:00

They can? Last I checked, men have become progressively more egalitarian, kinder, and less violent over the past century, only to be disliked more than ever.

BichonFriseLover · 2026-07-18T20:49:47+00:00

If every man improves then no man improves. The baseline for women’s attraction is the minority of men. Women do not deal in absolutes they deal in relatives.

Women do not care that a man makes 200K if that’s the average. Women do not care that a man is 6’4 if the average is 6’4. Women want a man better than average which means most men by default won’t be good enough.

What men can improve is negligible.

Dissentient · 2026-07-18T20:39:05+00:00

People of both genders prefer to be liked for who they are, rather than being liked for successfully performing gender role expectations. Some of the traits associated with gender roles are universally positive, but there are also those that some people genuinely hate performing.

Being liked for your job, or worse, income, is also not particularly flattering, unless your job is a huge part of your identity, which is relatively rare now.

yourfavoriteblackguy · 2026-07-18T20:43:08+00:00

Because the self improvement doesn't lead to anything beyond the superficial and sometime even worse outcomes.

Imagine you've done all this work to improve yourself, only to find that those same women you were eying are terrible people because of their attachment to something superficially improved.

A lot of young men have this belief that is partially perpetuated by Women that good woman are simply holding the bar high and all they have to do gain access to dating these women is to pass that bar. You just have simply to be to more forward, more wealthier, more fit etc. All the while the women who holding these bars are just normal women incapable of that achievement, and with a terrible personality. And too many of them given the strength and environmental conditions of Men would be misogynistic and borderline rapist.

Melodic_Structure928 · 2026-07-18T20:38:29+00:00

cause it’s not always attainable
when other dudes just have to exist and show up it does start to seem unfair.

If your argument is life isn’t fair in general I agree with you which moves us into redpilled territory.

champion_azure · 2026-07-19T01:18:50+00:00

To the one who works, he claims his wage.

To the one who receives a free gift, he cherishes it.

A wage is expected because it is earned, a gift is treasured because it is freely given.

Sensitive_Housing_85 · 2026-07-19T09:53:26+00:00

You assume doing these things lead to the results by defualt this is not true, women also aren't clear on what they seem desireable most of the time

Carbo-Raider · 2026-07-20T02:03:45+00:00

Because it's not true. Sure, they often find women don't like them. But society is lying when they tell men how they can be more 'liked'. We're really talking attraction. Nature made it so men can not fool mother-nature and spread their bad genetics. 666 is unchangeable.

I last saw this lie yesterday watching a 1981 episode of Diff'rent Strokes S04:E424 - "Short but Sweet". They correctly showed that being a short man means game-over...

Arnold's friend: "Girls say you're cute"
Arnold "cute like a pet"

But later the father says if you act polite etc you will attract girls. ie "Nice guy". But the Friend-Zone exists for a reason.

aslfingerspell · 2026-07-18T21:08:17+00:00

A lot of us want a golden age, not a years or even decades long grind with no reliable chance of success.

We want there to be a masculine equivalent to a personal ad that just says "22F. New to the city."

jazzmaster1992 · 2026-07-18T21:25:04+00:00

I think it's really hard to look at yourself and evaulate yourself as objectively unattractive, no matter what the reason is or no matter how improveable it is. "Yes, your genetics/income/personality is so flawed that women are fundamentally repulsed by it" is not a conversation anyone wants to have with themselves, even if it's true and even if it's necessary. I think what people miss is that when guys "complain" about women wanting Chad, being hypergamous, that sort of thing, they aren't necessarily blaming, criticizing, or attacking women for it and they don't always feel entitled. Rather, they're sort of angry and frustrated with themselves or their circumstances for not being able to attract women with more ease. And when it comes to inalienable genetic traits like height and hairline, there's not really much you can do to be "more likeable to women" that doesn't involve painful and costly surgical procedures.

MarioWilson122 · 2026-07-19T00:50:43+00:00

Well, it is if the woman is worth that. It just kind of sucks that men are expected to do all of that, often at a pretty high level, just to have a realistic chance of dating average or even below-average women.

The issue isn't that self-improvement is bad. Most men already improve themselves because they want better outcomes. The frustration is with how high the bar can feel compared to what they're actually getting in return. That's why they complain, not because they think becoming more confident, financially stable, or socially skilled is inherently a bad thing.

ctrl_f_sauce · 2026-07-18T20:44:41+00:00

Improvement for the masses may not be an improvement for you. I am not talking about self care.

Sander_Supporter · 2026-07-18T21:37:37+00:00

This question is based on the assumption that self-improvement will actually boost their odds with women, but the male attributes that are most critical in modern sexual selection are mostly immutable (height, dick size, hair, etc), and becoming rich is something that is highly unlikely for most men regardless of how hard they work towards it.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-18T20:51:11+00:00

why is this such a bad thing?

Because I am not my money. I am not my confidence and I am not the performance of game.

I am what remains when everything else changes. That is, just a body and the electrical chemical patterns that distinguish it from a corpse.

the men who lament about these things the most also say that the most important things to them in a woman are her beauty, youth, body count.

So a body (something everyone has), time (something everyone had once), and lack of experiences (something everyone had once).

Sounds good. Everyone gets a chance.

wouldn’t you rather be judged on how hard you work than be judged on your looks and age?

I would love to be valued in the way women are valued.

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TransmissionSigned · 2026-07-20T10:19:57+00:00

Because it means that the person you currently are is worthless.

Not only that, the idea that I must improve with the objective to be liked by you, while you do nothing, is highly insulting. Not to mention, pathetic.

Scudman_Alpha · 2026-07-20T14:30:07+00:00

Because "Just improve yourself" is a common talking point that usually leads nowhere. It's used to shut up any man that currently has an issue because it's assumed it's their fault.

Improve yourself for yourself, not to he likeable to others. Because if someone didn't like you before the chance is higher that they still won't like you after you've improved.

A lot of women speak as if it's a meritocracy, that if the guy puts in work they will get something, when in real life that's anything but.

Now couple that usually this is thrown at men who have been given an unfortunate hand early on in life (social issues, bullying, short or unattractive) and even after they do improve themselves the narrative gets shifted against them (I.e: They only did it for women, etc). No wonder men aren't happy.

Especially when there's examples of people who did not have to put in even half the work and get whatever they want anyway. And the problem only compounds.

classicslayer · 2026-07-20T15:28:53+00:00

Because the average woman isnt worth "working hard" for in order to get.

Neverending_Danding · 2026-07-20T23:38:06+00:00

So when's enough?

Title	why aren’t men happier about the fact that they can improve themselves to be more likeable to women?
Author	raffaelloenthusiast
Upvotes	0
Comments	268
Date	July 18, 2026 8:23 PM UTC (4 days ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1v06csu/why_arent_men_happier_about_the_fact_that_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-arent-men-happier-about-the-fact-that-they-can.1585345 https://theredarchive.com/post/1585345

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