The reasons women show while talking against "financial" abortion is eerily similar to the same reasoning that conservatives show for banning abortion.

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2025-01-21T19:14:09+00:00

Yes, that's true. And women who say it are pro-choice. I think their version of feminism is not about equality but about advantage over men.

Stock-Argument-1040 · 2025-01-21T07:09:27+00:00

Women aren't given abortion rights as a way to absolve themselves from the financial responsibilities of being a parent, it's because they have to carry the pregnancy and deal with the physical ramifications. The financial aspect is a consequence but not the point. Men do not have to carry the pregnancy and therefore do not need protection from being forced to endure the physical ramifications, this is why we are not given any kind of "financial abortion" option because that was never the point of abortion rights.

Solondthewookiee · 2025-01-21T05:58:28+00:00

No, this is just cherry picking the arguments that can best be refuted.

People who get pregnant are uniquely burdened and endangered by pregnancy, therefore have a unique option to deal with it.

Men who get pregnant have the same abortion rights as women.

Neither men nor women can unilaterally discharge their financial responsibilities to a child.

SnoopyDru · 2025-01-21T06:22:45+00:00

Abortions are for pregnancy, not parenthood.Male partners don’t get pregnant.

relish5k · 2025-01-21T12:39:44+00:00

Yes, those arguments are are all somewhat spurious.

The biggest issue is the logistics of it. If a man wants to abandon his parental rights he needs to do so with enough time for the woman to get an abortion. She also has to know she is pregnant in time to get an abortion. For it to actually work a lot would need to go right and there would need to be a lot of notarized letters between two seemingly at odds and disparate parties. Seems unlikely, and if anything would just motivating women who are bad actors to pretend that they found out they were pregnant after it was too late to do anything about it.

Makuta_Servaela · 2025-01-21T15:25:04+00:00

The difference is that no woman is asking for an abortion after she has birthed the kid. "Financial abortion" would be the equivalent of a woman trying to abort an already born kid. You can only get an abortion while the entity is still in your body. Once the baby is born, abandonment is a both/neither thing, where either parent can strap the other parent in for childsupport, or both parents can decide together to abandon it. The state won't take half-custody, so they have to agree together.

"Just get your tubes tied / just get a vasectomy."

TBF, male sterilization is way less invasive than female sterilization. We have to go through the core muscles. Males just have to go through the scrotal skin.

Embarrassed-Tune9038 · 2025-01-21T12:26:53+00:00

You also forget that they will argue that it is a human life and blah blah blah.

The entire "financial abortion " argument is taking a pro-abortion talking point, the argument that women shouldn't be forced into motherhood and applying the same argument from the male perspective.

Invariably, pro-abortion people will betray their very own arguments to attack financial abortion .

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2025-01-21T19:07:04+00:00

We all have the same option to remove a pregnancy from our bodies. That is your equal right.

Confident-Ad-6978 · 2025-01-22T18:06:01+00:00

Lol noticed this long ago. Girl told me that i "shouldn't be having sex" if i was concerned about that. Meanwhile she was stauch pro choice feminist.... We slept together after that because i was a dumbass

TongueTiedPDX · 2025-01-21T06:15:50+00:00

Those are all reasonable questions.

But they aren’t good reasons the government should decide whether you should be allowed to have a medical procedure.

Odd-Fun-9557 · 2025-01-21T16:47:02+00:00

I feel like there is context missing in your points . Vasectomies are significantly less invasive and more effective that getting your tubes tied and there is way less of a stigma and pushback around it

Not everywoman can take birth control but putting on an wearing a condom has far less draw backs and issues than birth control .

Also in my experience men ask to fuck raw and cum inside women so much as if that’s not how a baby is formed but then will swear up and down they don’t want to have kids with that woman .

The reasons aren’t really the same tbh

Overlook-237 · 2025-01-21T11:36:34+00:00

Abortion is healthcare for the woman.
Child support is a financial obligation that isn’t gendered. Both parents are financially liable for their children. The child support is also not for the mother, it’s for the child.
Reproduction works differently for men and women. A man’s part to play in reproduction ends at ejaculation, a woman’s ends at birth. Both are responsible for their own parts. Why is it such a wild notion that men should be careful with who they have sex with, and with their ejaculate, knowing that once their part of reproduction is over, it’s out of their hands (as it is for women too…)?

PracticalControl2179 · 2025-01-21T14:22:59+00:00

Women pay child support too

Do you not understand that as dating dynamics change and as young women continue to be more successful in the workforce/ school and make more money than men and get a higher net worth than men, more and more women will be paying child support?

In fact, my dream would be to have a financial abortion. I would love to make a guy of my choosing father and parent my kid while I know the kid is safe and taken care of and I don’t need to pay a dime to support the kid. When the kid turns 18, I’ll make up some sob story and get back into the kids life.

1) find a guy

2) beg him to have a kid, tell him that you desperately want a baby and a family. Do not do this in writing.

3) get pregnant

4) get a lawyer involved. explain that you never wanted a kid. Explain that you are against abortion because of your religion but that you don’t want the kid. Get a financial abortion.

5) leave

6) baby daddy takes care of the kid and does all of the hard work of parenting. I do whatever.

7) when the kid is 18, make up a sob story and try to be in the kid’s life.

alwaysright0 · 2025-01-21T06:24:50+00:00

I have no issue with saying any of those things about a woman who needs an abortion.

Still think she should be able to get 1.

There's a clear difference between the 2

Everlovingwhat1010 · 2025-01-21T13:18:33+00:00

You don’t get bodily autonomy do you?

No one, not man or woman, controls what happens in someone else’s body. The man can’t control the sperm once it’s out of his body. The woman can control what happens inside of her body.

Exact_Structure5053 · 2025-01-21T14:49:37+00:00

I have seen these arguments said in this sub and in other places and they are really dumb arguments.

My arguments on why paper abortions doesn't make sense is: 1) Men don't face any consequences of pregnancy. 2) I dont want to pay more taxes, then I already do, fixing another person's decision.

1) Men do not face any consequences of getting pregnant and in faxt benefit the most from that aspect as i will explain later. There are many things that can wrong with the pregnancy that can negatively affect a woman's health. Women have died from pregnancy. Theres a reason pregnant women are subjected to multiple checkups ups. Men don't have deal with this. But on the flip side; women do pay child support. So the whole comparison of a paper abortions to a real abortion is like comparing Call of Duty to being in the military.

Secondly, men benefit from this socially and in the workforce, given that pregnant women are far less productive workers due to the pregnancy. You know how many employers will pass up on a qualified female candidate for a promotion just because she's pregnant? Many. There's a reason why so many women don't want to get pregnant while in college or why as a society we discourage teen pregnancies because it's going ro affect her upward mobility in the workforce. Again, Men don't have to deal with any of this.

2) Someone is going to have to pay for that child. If not the parents then who? Taxpayers. This proposal of the paper abortion is just going to lead to either a lower standard of living or higher taxes. You are essentially shifting the responsibility away from parents and to American Taxpayers. There has to be so penalty, "financial or otherwise", Child support may not be perfect but the system is there for a reason. If you don't want to pay child support then don't have sex until you're ready or have safe sex.

SocrateandAthena · 2025-01-21T09:38:31+00:00

You're right. But in a country like yours where abortion is at stake and there's no safety net for women who would choose to keep an unplanned pregnancy if she could, what solution is there really ? USA puritanism is making it harder for everybody.

_weedkiller_ · 2025-01-21T12:02:02+00:00

The problem is the responses apply to completely different situations in a different context.

Men and women are not equally burdened by potential pregnancy.

Whenever the conversation comes up it really just highlights how men (and tbh childless women) don’t understand the massive sacrifices mothers have to make. One comment from a woman who previously got very annoyed with parents saying how difficult it is, after she had kids: it just completely humbles you. Your entire worldview changes. You essentially realise you can control very little. All your own needs are suddenly massively downgraded in priority level. For some reason men often don’t pick up on this.

Worst case scenario a man who doesn’t want to be a parent just has to pay child support. I understand that to some that sounds catastrophic, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the implications for a woman.

Pregnancy is a significant risk to the body. Giving birth to a baby, whether you keep the baby or not, frequently rips through between the vagina and rectum, causing a lot of pain, poop coming out the wrong way, infection, need for surgery etc. Pregnancy comes with many potentially deadly consequences like pre-eclampsia. Massive shifts in hormones can transform mental health and be life changing.

If the woman keeps the child her entire life is derailed. She loses freedom and often cannot study, doesn’t sleep through a single night for a year, if she’s sick she can’t be sick she just has to get up and take care of the kid regardless if she’s got a full on fever or whatever (I had my disabled daughter back in my sole care 4 days after a total hip replacement), career is derailed, social life and potential relationships.

Paper abortions just give men a loophole to have unprotected sex. If all they have to do is pay a single sum and sign a bit of paper then wealthy men would be happy to pay this cost in exchange for raw dogging.

When you drive a car you take precautions like wearing a seatbelt, but you get in the car knowing that there is a risk of a fatal crash. Condoms are a seatbelt. It’s up to you to decide the level of risk and weigh up the impact on your life. It should be noted that young men don’t have a great track record for assessing risk….

meisterkraus · 2025-01-21T10:58:31+00:00

I feel that on some level they just want to control men. It is the same type of arguments against a male birth control pill. They are just going to lie about taking it. As if women don't have the same option to lie.

Plus they don't give a shit about male rape victims that are forced to pay child support.

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SnooCats37 · 2025-01-21T10:44:20+00:00

I think the subject is pretty complicated. 1. Contraception is pushed onto women as their responsibility due to the fact that the only contraception men have available to them is condoms but the majority of men refuse to wear them as ‘it doesn’t feel as nice’. No contraception is 100% but it is women that have to deal with the repercussions of failed birth control. The morning after pill doesn’t always work either. 2. Abortion is there for women as it is healthcare and like a comment underneath says, once a pregnancy is viable, abortion is no longer an option and it shouldn’t be. It is women that have to go through the physical process of being pregnant and if they don’t want to for whatever reason, they shouldn’t have to. In modern day pregnancy and child birth is a lot safer but it still comes with risks and women can still die. 3. The topic of financial abortion, if a man is absolutely against ever being a dad then really they should be making sure they aren’t able to make a woman pregnant. It’s a lot easier for men to access healthcare like vasectomies than it is for women to get their tubes tied. There are cases where men just don’t feel ready to be a dad which I do understand. I have mixed feelings about this, I feel like if someone told me right from the get go that they wanted nothing to do with the pregnancy or the baby and walked away at that point and I chose to continue with it, I personally wouldn’t expect financial support. However, if it is put into law, I expect that a lot of men would opt out of paying child support leaving the burden of that financial gap to be pushed onto society to cover. It shouldn’t be societies job to pay for the children that men don’t want to pay for. At the end of the day, you have sex knowing that there is a potential consequence of a child. Raising children isn’t cheap or free and the whole of the financial burden shouldn’t be placed on women or the rest of society, especially when child maintenance is between 12% and 19% of the non resident parents income. The parent the child is living with is spending a lot more than that on the child/children a month.

TheSkyIsData · 2025-01-21T12:58:41+00:00

While it's true that women take on far more risks and responsibilities from pregnancy, it's also true that women control whether or not they get pregnant or have children at all in the first place, not men.

If a man doesn't want to pay for his children with child support, a woman can just get an abortion.

People also fail to recognize that not all men are the same and they don't show their emotions the same as women do. If a man genuinely loves and wants to take on solo responsibility for his child, a woman can take that away from him at any moment she desires with abortion. This can be emotionally devastating for some men, women should understand this considering all the things that could go wrong during childbirth.

All in all I think people should have the autonomy to do what they want with their body, but finances are a part of peoples' bodies. Can't make any money if you don't spend time working. I'm sure women would be very upset if someone could control a large portion of where the money they make goes.

HOLYREGIME · 2025-01-21T15:16:33+00:00

Why do people downvote and report then get so upset about being blocked? That’s the dumbest made up rule on this sub. I haven’t see it anywhere else.

I also think the moderation is low IQ, so maybe there is some consistency.

finitemike · 2025-01-23T00:51:57+00:00

I don't really care what women think or say, I know what is just and I'm tired of getting gaslit by misandrist feminists. I just want men to unite and gain political power so we can have legislation that guarantees our right to financial abortions. Men are way stronger than women both physically and mentally. All we need to do is get the incels to stop simping. Hopefully papa Elon gets some AI sexbots going soon and we can move past this feminist nightmare soon!

SurelyWoo · 2025-01-23T03:52:03+00:00

I noticed this too. When referring to the fetus, the women arguing against economic abortion used the word "baby", similar to a pro-life conservative. This is an isolated observation, but it wasn't surprising, given that all people have a tendency to select words that will give emotional weight to their argument.

MailenJokerbell · 2025-01-24T05:51:46+00:00

That last sentence is a false equivalency. Women are not awarded the same grace as men when electing for the sterilization procedure. I had a friend that took over a decade to find a doctor who would be willing to give her a hysterectomy even when she clearly stated she had no desire to have kids ever and was suffering from horrible periods, which ended up being endometriosis.

If you're young, childless and unmarried ,they will not do it. If you have a single kid, they will not do it. If you're unmarried but have kids, they will also not do it (unless you have like 3+) because "what if your future husband wants a kid?".

Interesting-Gas4506 · 2025-01-21T10:56:35+00:00

I'll give you a good reason. One the child is born, it isn't about the rights of the mother or the father, but the needs and rights of the CHILD. It's about not burdening the taxpayers further. You cannot force someone to abort a child, as that's an infringement on basic human rights and autonomy. Being able to pay your way out of fatherhood/motherhood and traumatising a child is already enough. I'd like to remind you all that men have the same rights as women when it comes to parenting already birthed, existing children. Women and men out there pay chd support or enjoy/have to deal with full custody. There's no point in financial abortions because well, men cannot get pregnant. Men do not need the same rights as pregnant women because they literally cannot get pregnant. It would make no sense. People are forced to pay for a load of bullshit, it's not the first or last time situations like these would arise. It's not fair for non smokers to pay taxes for smokers who need medical help, it's not fair for me to pay for convicted felons' meals and other needs, bla bla bla. It happens.

CatchPhraze · 2025-01-21T05:57:06+00:00

Abortion has been a societal norm for half a century. Fiscal abortion never has.

Why didn't you do A, instead of B isn't a really good argument/advice on it's own

Why don't you do A because B does not and has never existed, is a lot more a strong argument.

Desperate_Suspect520 · 2025-01-21T07:56:20+00:00

Yes, and?

The context and stakes in each debate are different, therefore an argument that may seem logical in one scenario might not hold up when applied to different one.

I say the same thing to both men and women who complain about fulfilling parental duties like child support.

I don't say it to both pregnant men and women who wants a medical abortion for their own pregnancy state.

Title	The reasons women show while talking against "financial" abortion is eerily similar to the same reasoning that conservatives show for banning abortion.
Author	JetproTC23
Upvotes	56
Comments	306
Date	January 21, 2025 5:49 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1i6bw1x/the_reasons_women_show_while_talking_against/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-reasons-women-show-while-talking-against.1541760 https://theredarchive.com/post/1541760

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