What is the cause of Retroactive Jealousy?

_mwk · 2021-10-21T12:06:02+00:00

I'm a girl with retroactive jealousy, not exactly about any...behaviour or action of my bf, im just deeply insecure and his ex is everything I would want to be lol

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2021-10-21T07:41:01+00:00

For me it's

1 - Status. Women and men look down on promiscuous women, and men specially will talk to the backs of men who they know are dating a promiscuous woman, even worst if they had sex with her. I hate the feeling that other men could hold something over my head. I have an image, I want to project a good image of myself yo others, I want others to respect me and look up to me, and when you date promiscuous women people see you as a chump and a cuck who can't do better. Women with a large sex past bring down my public image. There is no point in introducing her as "your girlfriend" when everyone know anyone could have it at any moment but it's yours only because nobody want her. I would never introduce a promiscuous woman as "my girlfriend", it's doing yourself a diservice. I want to be with a woman I'm proud to have to my side, not a woman who shames me in front of others with her sole presence.

2 - Sexual compatibility. I'm a very sexual man, I love sex, specially wild, freaky sex, and most women who have a long list of sexual partners have tried everything in bed and mostly "grew out of it, so they can't provide me the kind ok sex I crave IME. The more partners a woman has had, the more likely she had a bad experience with sex. They tend to have some hang ups on sex as a result of their past experiences and are less willing to do some things in bed that have tried before and went wrong.

3 - Emotional conection. These women always have a foot on the relationship and another on the door. They get used to break up and/or being dumped, so it's pointless to make plans with them because they bail at the first sign of troubles. Women who are more relationship oriented invest more in the relationship and try making it work. They make you feel your time, effort and love matters and makes the difference, so you feel you are not wasting your time with them.

I'm telling you this as a man who has slept around a lot. In my case it's not "FOMO" or insecurity or whatever.

Jakes1967 · 2021-10-21T11:17:37+00:00

RJ is when you obsess over your partner's past relationships, sexual history.

Probably why I'm a firm advocate for partners who have a similar sexual history.

Too many times I've seen past sexual history destroy good relationships and even marriages.

Usually it's the guy, who has a false image of who his partner is and when the beans are spilled, bam they see her in a totally different light and it's the end of their relationship. It might take up to a year or so, but you can trace its origins to that single moment he found out.

M3taBuster · 2021-10-21T15:18:10+00:00

Although none of those 4 explanations are necessarily outright wrong, and there could be some truth to them for some men in some situations, they aren't the main issue.

You're intellectualizing it too much. I just feel visceral emotional pain at the mental image of my partner having sex with other men. Therefore, I want my partner to have not had sex with any other men. That's literally all there is to it.

Ohmaygahh · 2021-10-21T15:03:55+00:00

RJ afflicts men when they have far less sexual/romantic experience as compared to their partner. They want to experience dating, sex with many people before committing to a single person. RJ happens because they realize their partner already had their fun/learned a lot about themselves by dating men who don't measure up in many key areas frequently described as desirable for more "serious" relationships but he is going to enter into a monogamous commitment. So these men have a very ~~optimistic~~ romanticized view of what it feels like to engage in casual sex.
RJ affects men who ~~think women offer their youth and bodies while men offer commitment, money, reliable father figure, and stability.~~ know they missed out on a desired partners more carefree, less inhibited ways. So they ~~conceptualize~~ know her past ex-boyfriends having gotten her at her prime, ~~without paying a high price~~ just because she felt like it while she having learned from her experiences, grew mature, raised the bar/standards and now he feels ~~taken advantage~~ fooled into having to give more for less.
RJ affects men who have not been objectified in their past, they are insecure about their abilities in bed, being sexually attractive. They realize their partner's past relationships did not work out but it usually was not sexual incompatibility that broke them apart, she might be compromising on that aspect when it comes to him because of other traits that he has to offer. So RJ is basically rooted in his ~~fear~~ realization/confirmation of not being sexually desirable.
RJ affects ~~traditional folk who believe in a just world, that they abstained from sex before marriage and their partner should have too.~~ regular guys who found it difficult to cultivate great, sexually fulfilling lives with regularly attractive women. If they find out about her wild sexual escapades later, they feel betrayed and hurt that ~~it is serial monogamy and not proper monogamy they got themselves into.~~ they didn't get to participate in that life and missed out in that phase of life generally, and with her specifically.

I think i corrected most of it, this was just a quick 2 min flyby

xFallacyx69 · 2021-10-21T11:58:44+00:00

I don’t think it’s jealousy as much as it is “I’m not really special if you’ve done this with half the town.” Just like you wouldn’t feel special if all your gal friends knew me because I take them ok fancy vacations, sent them elaborate gifts and displays of affection, etc.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-10-21T07:44:21+00:00

People in a dead bedroom get this retro-active jealousy, and they get regret that they held sex in such high value when young and didn't fool around more - both men and women get this.

Mimoxs · 2021-10-21T06:30:31+00:00

Insecurity, but not in an insulting, mocking way. Insecurity is a very valid and justified feeling.

odd_cloud · 2021-10-21T09:18:16+00:00

You forgot simple feeling of disgust. It's completely irrational but it exists.

black_snake_m0an · 2021-10-21T07:59:31+00:00

What about this from the women’s perspective? I’ve experienced this. It’s hard to wonder if the man whose committing to spend the rest of his life with you has had better sex with hotter women. That’s why I like knowing every partner he has had and looking them up on social media. I want to know what I’m up against in terms of looks. when it comes to the sex, I’ll always wonder and pretty much expect that they were better than me since they had way more experience than me.

I often feel plain and like hes only with me because he’s very compatible with me as a partner. Life would be better if both genders had less partners. Promiscuity never leads to happiness.

Mark_Freed · 2021-10-21T11:21:38+00:00

I was a virgin until 21 in the early 2000's (but was good looking, long story), and I remember having this with my GF, who was 18. She didn't have a high notch count, but was probably near five, and this used to bug me. It's hard to remember this now, but yeah: in the back of my mind, I was hoping to date a virgin. She also had made out with a local punk/hipster guy I could not fucking STAND, and this used to irk me.

Next girlfriend was a virgin, though, so all and all, life was ok to me.

Mark_Freed · 2021-10-21T06:38:45+00:00

I started off thinking that a girl's sexual history doesn't matter at all. The very idea of it mattering seemed silly.

That only changed when I started committing. When committing, girl's sexual history gives me images, makes me feel icky. So now, I don't commit. Problem solved 🤷‍♂️

WestsideMoonWalker · 2021-10-21T06:32:13+00:00

I mean, most of it seems to be FOMO from my vantage point. It just seems to be a specific form of FOMO relating to someone's past relationships/lifestyles/partners, instead of other ways it can manifest. I guess it can also be a fear of having already missed out as well. That would be the root cause of a lot of the insecurities that seem to cause this.

Liberal_On_Guns · 2021-10-21T15:17:19+00:00

Oh this is an easy one.

Scarcity mindset and a lack of outcome independence. Insecurity happens when you are literally not secure in your relationship. "Insecure" as a label is usually just a shaming tactic. But a guy who feels insecure worries about losing the girl through some fault of his own. He wants to keep the relationship going despite his better judgment, and gets anxiety as a result.

A man who is literally secure in this relationship will feel one of three ways:

Not care because he doesn't care about being her sexual best, nor does he care about losing the relationship, and the girl is really not all that important to him.
Doesn't care because he's confident that he is her sexual best, and believes that if they were to break up, she would be his "alpha widow." I.e. he's less replaceable, sexually.
Doesn't care because he would just end the relationship or keep it casual, whether he has confidence in his sexual prowess or not. Some guys simply aren't interested in girls with an extensive past at all, and would only make exceptions in rare circumstances, if at all.

Now, a man might feel secure even if he's not secure in his relationship. These are the guys that often get burned by their oneitis. He's so secure that he sees no red flags with her past or girls night or bachelorette parties or still being friends with her ex boyfriend. They believe they are "real men" by ignoring conventional wisdom in favor of gynocentric dogma.

SylvestorTalone · 2021-10-21T17:57:13+00:00

Biology.

Artistic_Guest4386 · 2021-10-21T22:46:44+00:00

Because MOST people struggle very very hard to change. So if they were in lust/love with one type of individual before, or treated an ex better than you, then it's USUALLY (but not ALWAYS) only a matter of time before the scorpion stings the frogs back....

GuitarsBack · 2021-10-21T12:18:56+00:00

Retroactive jealousy on my part put a huge strain on my first relationship.

It hit me unexpectedly. I would never had thought before that it could be an issue.

I would have laughed at the idea.

I tried to get rid of it, but wasn't able to. I couldn't even say why I was retroactively jealous.

RJ affects traditional folk who believe in a just world, that they abstained from sex before marriage and their partner should have too.

"Just world" probably was the explanation. But not "before marriage". More like "before a serious loving relationship".

AggroWeasel · 2021-10-21T13:56:51+00:00

I’m not jealous or insecure about women’s sexual histories.

I just find double digit n-counts extremely unattractive.

You know, sort of how women feel about short men.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-10-21T15:19:06+00:00

do many men not voluntary choose to abstain from casual sex but later see it as a choice as a defense mechanism?

Not necessarily. Sex with someone you are not compatible with is not that good. You aren't really into them and they aren't really into you, but there's still enough hormones to half-ass it while the novelty is fresh. Yay.

As for the other stuff, yeah, I think if a guy doesn't feel desired he might feel RJ. Anybody might, man or women, if they don't feel desired.

But if you feel like she truly desires you that cures most other ills. That is saying a lot though. Most people's passion is fairly tepid, even when they like their partner. If a woman disclosed a colorful and varied past, as long as she was into me, I'd just think I had a live one.

And_Rue · 2021-10-21T18:48:22+00:00

Re-framing the aversion that many male feel as 'retroactive jealousy' is a way that specific women attempt to modify social perception concerning a biologically inherent phenomenon (with irrefutable outcomes supported in peer-reviewed literature) such that they can improve their own potential romantic options. Other shaming tactics are widely used to influence social opinion of 'promiscuous' women as well by castigating the character, values, and/or masculinity of those they would like to date.

Look at 1) how you're framing the issue, as it points a man's feelings as some kind of inadequacy and his responsibility to alter, and 2) the content of most comments made by women (or men) in response to those arguing the predictive power of sexual history, as you'll see virtually all the remarks hinting at the inadequacy of those that harm the commenter's ego and prospective mating options.

Active-Toe-7822 · 2021-10-21T20:52:50+00:00

I agree with you 100% and definitely related when it comes to my RJ. Less sexually experienced is me all day and I was very optimistic when it came to sex with my current girlfriend. I mean it was great at first and I never imagined being lucky enough to meet a freak like her, but since my jealousy emerged (hearing all about her past and I couldn’t deal with it to be honest) we hardly have sex anymore and when we do it is very vanilla now. I definitely feel like I have the raw end of the stick now, being a step dad is great and all, but I feel like she just likes me for my characteristics as a provider and good father figure, but is not as hot for me sexually as she was with her exes (based on the stories she told me about the things they did together, stuff we don’t do anymore or never did) and this feeling sucks so bad. I definitely wasn’t objectified sexually in my past and I am very messed up about that I think, but never thought about that specifically until I seen you write it here. To your last point however I wasn’t the one to abstain before marriage, so that part doesn’t really apply to me, but I definitely feel like I had a lot less sex than I wanted to growing up (I’m 34 now).

So glad to read that someone understands the causes, but what about the solution? I have my girlfriend now and we’ve been together for 2 years already and all she talks about is marriage. I know I should be happy, but my RJ won’t let me. I feel like I’ve missed out on a lot in life and was hoping that at least with her my sexual desires could be fulfilled, but she’s not on board to do that. She basically had her fun, experimented with things (such as anal, which I never got to do) and isn’t really willing to try anything new anymore. Every time we even have sex, it’s always only on her terms and she won’t ever let me take charge (I can’t even convince her to fuck during the day! She only let’s me get it at night for example). So I don’t know what to do. My complaining to her definitely has made things so much worse, but I’m really having trouble being happy, which sucks bc I don’t want to leave necessarily, I love her and her daughter so much, but this is killing me inside being so sexually unsatisfied. Any advise?

Sad_Top1743 · 2021-10-21T06:32:26+00:00

It's because of the disparity in sexual opportunity.

For an above average guy to have the same sexual opportunity as an average looking women, he has to invest a significant amount of time and effort and even then he could fall short.

Modern women have less shame and more protections associated with sex so they use their sexual privileges more frivolously than women of the past.

I had RJ pretty bad with a LT partner and it was definitely explanations 1 and 3 for me. I don't think women understand that the experience gap is quite the deal breaker for some guys, like it actually makes me feel less attracted and like suppresses my desire. Its basically acts as an emotional muzzle for me.

Kanonicman · 2021-10-21T07:28:00+00:00

I know someone, good guy overall. For some reason he has basically no sexual / relationship experience as an adult in his 30's.

He would mostly agree with all points, excluding point 4. He has no such illusions or expectations as described in point 4.

So these men have a very optimistic view of what it feels like to engage in casual sex.

What do you mean?

ecv1d · 2021-10-21T14:44:52+00:00

I only have RJ if the girl has been blasted by half the town and suddenly becomes asexual with me. It’s happened to me and I quickly left that because it’s complete bs.

KickAss2021 · 2021-10-21T12:22:21+00:00

it's understanding that promiscuous women don't make good choices and deadbedroom and cheat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWkPOFz3RSk&t=10826s

Rj is just another way of saying man should tolerate cheating and bad behavior from women. Most of these women here have married or remarried and divorced cucks that they can disregard and control (even they said that in their own words).

N count is not an issue for women, since some men will want them, and the ones who don't will go on their separate ways

excusemeILY · 2021-10-21T13:44:50+00:00

Entitlement

back_in_blyat · 2021-10-21T17:42:48+00:00

I am quite successful with women and relationships and I think the framing is all wrong. It isn't jealousy, its disgust. I am not jealous she had a lot of partners, I am disgusted and turned off at the lizard brain level. The gut reaction men have to high N count women is the same feeling women have towards a guy who is insecure, lacks ambition, and does nothing but work at McDonalds and watch porn.

michael1962-01 · 2021-10-21T11:42:31+00:00

Sorry? Why'd you go for a milf instead of a twenty some woman?

bordstol · 2021-10-21T17:46:20+00:00

We have a sex drive to reproduce. Men are always going to be uncertain if they are the father. Your past says a lot about how you will act in the future. Having had many partners makes it less certain that the man is putting resources in his own kids (genes) upbringing.

No matter how much we try to push the narrative that it doesn't matter, men will always respond with a disgust like feeling to a woman having had many sexual partners in order to protect his genes survival. (Unless it's for casual sex).

midwestufohunter · 2021-10-24T20:27:02+00:00

Porn and the online male supremacy movement

PatternEast7185 · 2022-01-07T21:51:40+00:00

It's an anti-cuck response.. it's not even jealousy like people say it is, it's literal disgust, and it hurts the guy too becuz the woman he loves smells like shit.. I don't think women can even really understand this.

With girls I'm hooking up with I don't care at all, but when marriage is in the cards it's like the only thing that matters

Flat_Plane_V8 · 2021-10-21T07:58:01+00:00

microchimerism is the cause of retroactive jealousy...sperm and DNA of past men floating in the body of the woman and even jumping the blood brain barrier and influencing her thoughts....also I suspect Telegony will be proven by future science..already proven in insects

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-10-21T15:38:18+00:00

This seems to be a uniquely male thing. I am or at least was a fairly insecure woman, and most of my partners have had more past partners than I have. And yet it’s nothing I ever cared about, save for one extreme discrepancy, which I still coped with (should’ve been a red flag). Never lay awake at night imagining them with other women or felt like they were in any way damaged goods. Considered them “mine” because they were with me, now, regardless of who they were with in the past. The only thing that bothered me was the idea of them cheating after we were in a relationship.

Imo it all comes down to the vestiges of antiquated views of women as property, sex as ownership, and the mythos that women’s sexual resources get used up, while men’s sexual resources are infinite. We even see scientifically inaccurate ideas about hymens being some kind of freshness seal and vaginas getting “stretched out.”

xQueen-Bx · 2021-10-21T12:42:08+00:00

nonwesternness

RabbitNRaccoon · 2021-10-21T12:45:00+00:00

I think it's a mixture of things. If can be insecurity or jealousy.

But I also think it indicates a lack of similar values. A person who has fucked 3 people likely has certain values when it comes to sex and relationships even if they aren't consciously aware of it. Their gut reacts with resentment at a parter with 60 bodies because it offends their values.

I realized I could never date a person who thinks casual sex is okay because every time I hear people talk about casual sex nonchalantly, it makes me feel physically ill. I don't think I could be good friends with someone who slept around alot.

So if you find yourself really put off by a person's body count because it differs greatly from yours, it's better to just break up, IMO.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-10-21T13:27:32+00:00

I don't know if I'd call it jealousy but let's say there's a scenario where a girl has had casual hookups and flings in the past with guys that she was hot for but then when it comes to you she makes you wait two or three months, that's just a Telltale sign that she is not into you like that, same thing of the woman who was up for doing freaky or things with ex boyfriends but then when it comes to you the guy that she might be marrying all of a sudden she "doesn't do that anymore" she's getting dismissed in both of those circumstances.

But yeah a gap in experience or maybe not being the absolute best that somebody's ever had may fuck with your head a little bit

JacobMoogberg69 · 2021-10-21T11:04:44+00:00

Me and my friends have pretty decent n counts and most of the women I have been with I've been the one wjth the higher, and they have typically felt insecure about my previous partners. I just resent that you seem to believe every single guy is a loser who has barely had any sex and every average girl is a sex nymph who has a 100 notch count before she turns 19. That exists only in your insecure little mind. If you are not happy with your number of partners, then go out and rack up your numbers and shut up about it.

cowfishAreReal · 2021-10-21T06:19:56+00:00

Insecurity, and sexism

NarniaFox · 2021-10-21T06:49:41+00:00

So to put it short it's either insecurity, sexism or being sex-negative. I think you've nicely summed up things.

bilged · 2021-10-21T06:50:24+00:00

Neurotic insecurity

chubbybutt22 · 2021-10-21T12:15:05+00:00

It’s literally just insecurity (like his some men are insecure about sex toys) or that they think she “used to be more wild”. Although both my LTRs have been with virgin men so I haven’t had to deal with it much.

neetykeeno · 2021-10-21T08:02:16+00:00

I think it is mainly about how some people see a long-term commited relationship as being a thing that must fix them and everything about their and their partners lives. Which is kind of a bit stupid. Some people are just dumb enough to also think relationships should easily fix things that happened in the past too, not just make the present pleasanter and the future better.

In an odd way it is the same category of dysfunction as thinking you can take a cheater with bad planning skills and poor impulse control and then fix that via a relationship just feeling so good. Bzzzzzt no. Relationship does not fix all...self control and better decision making and better ethical choices are each an entire journey of their own and are not produced by vigorous application of dick to vagina.

No matter who you get with, your sexual history is your sexual history. There is no wifey in all the world who will make you not a man who jerked off as quietly as possible into a sock while his college roommate screwed cheerleaders in the bunk below him. Nope. Stop expecting her to be able to kiss this better.

poppy_blu · 2021-10-21T09:35:42+00:00

RJ is when you obsess over your partner's past relationships, sexual history.

Complete misuse of the English language but OK

You feel intense anxiety, resentment and other negative emotions that spoils your current relationship.

Aka insecurity but OK

I think trp adds fuel to this emotion. So I will expect red pill-leaning men in this sub to have more experience struggling with such emotions.

Men end up at TRP because they’re struggling with women, so sure. I don’t think the average guy without some mental/emotional issues can’t figure out on his own what he needs to do to attract women. TRP end up catering to the ones who can’t or won’t accept on their own that the sun comes up every morning and goes down every night.

RJ afflicts men when they have far less sexual/romantic experience as compared to their partner.

I’ll buy that

RJ affects men who think women offer their youth and bodies while men offer commitment, money, reliable father figure, and stability.

Huge overlap with trads and non western men here

RJ affects men who have not been objectified in their past, they are insecure about their abilities in bed, being sexually attractive.

Ties to #1

RJ affects traditional folk who believe in a just world, that they abstained from sex before marriage and their partner should have too.

I’ll buy that too

So if any of you know someone who experienced RJ but is 1) more sexually experienced than their partner or 2) who value the commitment their partner offers, likes milfs rather than young girls or 3) is very confident and secure in their self worth or 4) do many men not voluntary choose to abstain from casual sex but later see it as a choice as a defense mechanism?

No

Mark_Freed · 2021-10-21T06:37:58+00:00

Insecurity, and absolutely in an insulting, mocking way.

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WilliamWyattD · 2021-10-21T10:28:49+00:00

The jealousy that is focused on an individual is usually about insecurity. And it's somewhat justifiable in the abstract.

As for point 1, this is more a generalize feeling of unfairness rather than directed at a given woman. It's the idea that in the past, in theory, two people who are compatible for most of their lives would have matched up younger. So men would indeed get to experience their life match's peak beauty years and then she would get to experience his best years, whatever they are. So there was a sense of gender fairness there. Now, there's a feeling that only the top men get most of the 18-26 year old peak female beauty years.

1Here4Bach · 2021-10-21T12:09:56+00:00

It’s a sense of ownership plus the expectation of purity culture. “She’s a whore if she’s having sex with anybody but me!” “She’s a slut if she’s giving a blow job to any dude but me!” “She needs to wait for me and when we’re together she need to be a porn star freak 24/7!” It’s all male delusion and entitlement.

SaBahRub · 2021-10-21T14:30:06+00:00

Insecurity, mental illness, lack of self esteem

Megabyte7637 · 2021-10-24T23:30:03+00:00

What's do you mean this is pretty obvious.

superlurkage · 2021-10-21T16:20:02+00:00

Insecurity and objectification, obviously

Title	What is the cause of Retroactive Jealousy?
Author	Mark_Freed
Upvotes	44
Comments	378
Date	October 21, 2021 6:17 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/qcl96o/what_is_the_cause_of_retroactive_jealousy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-the-cause-of-retroactive-jealousy.1082685 https://theredarchive.com/post/1082685

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