Viewing dating as a marketplace might be the biggest failure someone can make

No_Exercise_8670 · 2022-01-13T08:51:03+00:00

You do not understand how statistics work

Square_Inflation_534 · 2022-01-13T09:29:15+00:00

I do think that being dogmatic about anything is pretty stupid, yes even statistics. But I do think it's important to have a statistical framework as a base, that changes and grows with interactions.

I do believe that that's what you're trying to say and many will have read it that way. Unfortunately that's not what you wrote.

PopularBug5 · 2022-01-13T10:27:44+00:00

It IS a marketplace because there is a supply and there is a demand. There is a value of everyone participating in it, and there is an 'invisible hand' inevitably guiding everyone to meet their value matches.

_Oh_Be_Nice_ · 2022-01-13T13:08:54+00:00

u/bees-and-stuff, I don't have the time or interest to go through your post history to figure out where you're coming from, but have you ever taken an applied statistics course or have any relevant training in the field?

This comes off as one of the most tone-deaf, unexperienced, uninformed, and laughable posts I've ever come across on this sub, and this place is usually a flaming shithole of gaslighting, bad-faith argumentation, and malformed statistical analysis.

-passepar2t- · 2022-01-13T10:56:35+00:00

People will surprise you when you get to know them

Except they won't, will they?

DjangoUBlackBastard · 2022-01-13T11:43:22+00:00

Do you choose your bankers and dentists and doctors and plumbers and electricians and stylists without looking at things like reputation, performance and price?

DrinkItInMan11 · 2022-01-13T12:58:10+00:00

At the end of the day dating is a marketplace, people with the highest value have the most demand, they're also in less supply.

Now before someone goes "People aren't commodities we aren't objects"

We as humans aren't fucking special. We're all just commodities at the end of the day with differing values.

whrdiditgowrong · 2022-01-13T10:31:38+00:00

Putting aside the implication that conventially attractive white teenagers in the west have apparently found insight into the human condition, the more time you spend with people the more you realise they aren't snowflakes. After a while I've found even people's faces seem to be cut from a production line. This idea that the world is full of diverse and unique human beings is a fantasy. There's a reason that the masses can reliably be marketed to and manipulated so well, that algorithms are so effective and that in dating certain people clean up and other's don't.

Stahlboden · 2022-01-13T17:15:26+00:00

Men (it's mostly men who think like this) come to the marketplace theory (redpill) because they tried living by the feel-good bluepill platitudes: "just bee yourself, be nice, talk to people, there's someone out there for you" etc. It just makes them perpetually friendzoned, jaded and bitter, the platitudes don't work and they don't understand why.

Vtridolla · 2022-01-13T19:12:29+00:00

Nothing gets the juices flowing like a pie chart made by a red pill man.

Willow-girl · 2022-01-13T11:05:00+00:00

It is a marketplace in the sense that your dating pool contains the people in your proximity (IRL or digitally). And it is something of a numbers game -- the bigger your pool, the better the odds of finding a compatible person in it. Also, the more conventionally attractive you are, the more options you will have. If you are the stereotypical 6/6/6 man or a beautiful woman, odds are that majority of people will at least give you shot. You may still be rejected eventually, but you'll at least get to shoot your shot. The further you stray from the conventionally attractive, the smaller your dating pool becomes. That's not to say that "niche" people don't find love, just that it may be harder to land a partner because you're fishing in a smaller pool.

BecretAlbatross · 2022-01-13T10:57:10+00:00

Dating as a guy is a numbers game. You can be intelligent enough to recognize exceptions while still focusing on trends and rules.

abaxeron · 2022-01-13T09:32:22+00:00

I genuinely believe that these philosophies of generalization are a huge handicap on anyone’s dating life

It's because you're assuming that everyone except you is an idiot.

We know how distributions work. We know that normal distribution spans into infinity on both sides. We know that as a general rule, everything in humans is correlated with everything else. We know that for every given parameter, any two arbitrary groups of people are very likely to overlap more than differ. We know that our knowledge about any individual is limited, both because we can't account for every hidden parameter, AND because people change just as we're getting to know them.

Except we also understand how economy works. Economy is not a worldview that everyone is a greedy selfish opportunist bastard looking for nothing else but to screw up everyone around them for personal gain. Economy is the science of optimal behavior under scarcity. Economic problems may not even involve currency or material goods at all. When a field surgeon is given three wounded patients and needs to decide who to help first, this is an economic problem. Same as when a worker decides how to spend remaining hours after shift and before going to sleep.

One needs to be completely delusional to think that good people and good relationships are not scarce.

Eastuss · 2022-01-13T13:06:39+00:00

Reading through these posts is tiring

Then stop reading, stop coming here.

Projecting these beliefs onto everyone because they may or may not make up a statistic is like killing a relationship before it starts.

When we discuss population then we view dating place as a market, because that's hot it works. We're not here to find partners.

But otherwise, it's useful to project the most likely encompassing archetype and adapting to it rather than adapting to the most unlikely idealistic archetype, which is what blue pillers and you tell people to do.

I happen to be in direct contrast with much of the data

I bet you do not.

I genuinely believe that these philosophies of generalization are a huge handicap on anyone’s dating life as well as their social and emotional well being in general

Men need to understand these generalization in order to socially adjust. This is what I did, this is what all the men I know who struggled did, and everyone is succeeding that way.

You're just telling people that knowing the truth is wrong and they should keep believing in feels good lies. This is exactly why young men are failing.

DesperateTraffic3164 · 2022-01-13T10:59:06+00:00

Ignoring the statistical certainties of the world is dumb.

That being said, you can tilt the deck in your favor by understanding the rules of the game and giving yourself the best chance at a winning hand.

For example, in business the average failure rate of startups is about 80%. But that doesn't mean every startup has a 20% chance of success. However, in order to be one of the top 1%, you need to understand what qualities increase the likelihood of success, what qualities increase the likelihood of failure, and so on. Then when you start a venture that has all the successful qualities and none of the qualities indicative of failure, you can be much more confident in the outcome.

Everything in life has a probability, we just don't know what that probability is. There's a probability you will respond to this post, a probability I'll be killed by a bus tomorrow, and so on. Smart people live life by maximizing their probabilities of success and minimizing their probabilities of failure. Dumb people 'live in the moment' and expect to magically stumble into their ideal longterm outcomes.

It's the difference between wealthy people and poor people.

Relationships used to be such that the chance of success was significantly higher than the chance of failure. Now that paradigm has inversed, along with the cost of failure rising tremendously. This means that a more intelligent approach should be taken to dating.

razormachine · 2022-01-13T12:48:56+00:00

It is a huge mistake for people who are bad at understanding how statistic, generalizations and economy work. Also personality is something that we really cannot put into numbers.

Tomorrow I could meet a woman which is of lower value then me in every metric and I could still decide that she is worth it because her personality is knocking me off my feet.

The sad part is that... I see so many people which obviously don't know shit about how statistic, generalizations and economy work. And also think about human behavior in extremes, .eg Alpha and Beta man... being asshole or doormat, ignoring all possible finesse of human behaviors.

Few-Distribution-586 · 2022-01-13T14:19:07+00:00

Making generalizations about large, diverse groups of people ultimately misrepresents almost all of them and that’s just not good for anyone, especially you if you’re looking for a partner.

I genuinely believe that these philosophies of generalization are a huge handicap on anyone’s dating life as well as their social and emotional well being in general

OP, common sense is frowned upon here. You are dealing with people that use terms like "chad" and "low-value man" unironically.

geometersbane · 2022-01-13T10:51:16+00:00

Nope. Humans are 99% the same and 1% different. Banking on the 99% is obviously the much safer bet to make.

wtknight · 2022-01-13T11:34:36+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ruboyuri · 2022-01-13T16:19:19+00:00

No, it’s very helpful and also accurate

Dating is offering yourself like any product. People voluntarily decide whether they like your product. You are compared to similar products, and you need to market yourself to make a sale

monopsychos · 2022-01-13T21:57:57+00:00

Stop using data to judge potential romantic partners.

Use your personal experiences to judge them instead like normal people

y2kjanelle · 2022-01-14T02:13:27+00:00

OP, I think you’re a really cool person, but I can guarantee there are a lot of really bitter people on here who have extreme confirmation bias.

Overall, yes. I think statistics help to paint certain pictures of society. But there’s a reason there are outliers and that statistics come with descriptions, you have to UNDERSTAND them. You have to know what the numbers represent and people don’t like to do that. They like to make generalizations that agree with what they want them too.

manfrom-nantucket · 2022-01-13T08:56:41+00:00

People will surprise you when you get to know them

More likely that people will disappoint you when you get to know them and they will keep disappointing you the longer you know them.

KirthWGersen · 2022-01-13T10:07:01+00:00

The idea of the sexual marketplace is nothing new or controversial.

Consider what psychoanalyst and philosopher Erich Fromme wrote in The Art of Loving (1956):

Our whole culture is based on the appetite for buying, on the idea of a mutually favorable exchange. Modern man’s happiness consists in the thrill of looking at the shop windows, and in buying all that he can afford to buy, either for cash or on installments. He (or she) looks at people in a similar way. For the man an attractive girl—and for the woman an attractive man—are the prizes they are after. “Attractive” usually means a nice package of qualities which are popular and sought after on the personality market. What specifically makes a person attractive depends on the fashion of the time, physically as well as mentally. During the twenties, a drinking and smoking girl, tough and sexy, was attractive; today the fashion demands more domesticity and coyness. At the end of the nineteenth and the beginning of this century, a man had to be aggressive and ambitious—today he has to be social and tolerant—in order to be an attractive “package.” At any rate, the sense of falling in love develops usually only with regard to such human commodities as are within reach of one’s own possibilities for exchange. I am out for a bargain; the object should be desirable from the standpoint of its social value, and at the same time should want me, considering my overt and hidden assets and potentialities. Two persons thus fall in love when they feel they have found the best object available on the market, considering the limitations of their own exchange values. Often, as in buying real estate, the hidden potentialities which can be developed play a considerable role in this bargain. In a culture in which the marketing orientation prevails, and in which material success is the outstanding value, there is little reason to be surprised that human love relations follow the same pattern of exchange which governs the commodity and the labor market.

lulhoofdFTW · 2022-01-13T12:58:06+00:00

Some people here complaining how they can't find a partner while the biggest problem are their own views on dating

ogsimpology · 2022-01-13T13:42:37+00:00

I have read through literal books of dating advice. Explaining "female character and nature" to an unnerving detail. It depressed me and made me believe that doing certain things I did, and behaving a certain way I tried, would actually get me results. It all failed.

I gained no confidence when I first saw my abs, I gained nothing by avoiding befriending women, I got nothing by pretending to be uninterested and cool, from trying to wear more expensive clothing to pretend like I had money or status, etc.

The best advice I got was from my Chad friend: Just be yourself and don't think about it too much.

I took his stupid advice literally, and now I'm fucking married.

vredditcocksucker · 2022-01-13T13:55:53+00:00

autism

heyitsjeape · 2022-01-13T15:38:45+00:00

The biggest failure for someone like me is that there are no females interested in meeting someone. I can “view,” things however I want but that isn’t going to change.

kyjolski · 2022-01-13T09:06:10+00:00

You are a teenage girl with limited life and relationship experience trying to argue an idealized position with jaded old men and/or bitter red/black pillers.

Neither of you are 'right'. Also, good luck with that.

FancyCocktailOlive · 2022-01-13T08:53:34+00:00

I agree with you. They’re turning to statistics to try to gain the illusion of control.

FabulousFuchsbau · 2022-01-13T08:54:24+00:00

Prepare for accusations of gaslighting and endless screaming that you don’t understand.

BruddaMSK · 2022-01-13T11:46:39+00:00

When people have a debate they try to come up with arguments which could be referenced and verified. Saying something happened to you is pretty useless since no one can check whether it's true or you were making things up.

insertcredit2 · 2022-01-13T10:22:34+00:00

There's a good FDS video about this with jordan peterson and a guy from the room mates podcast.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/qzzvnz/red_pill_favourite_jordan_peterson_doesnt_agree/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=PurplePillDebate&utm_content=t3_r7zgv7

Wildhouse83 · 2022-01-13T15:51:31+00:00

It is a trade between beauty, youth and purity on the one hand and looks, money and status on the other hand.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-01-13T16:28:18+00:00

Yeah people surprise you, often not to the upside. The bell curve is the bell curve for a reason. Look, I'd love to be a pollyanna too, but to ignore all these observations and truth is... delusional.

Zerofication · 2022-01-13T20:59:05+00:00

I have no problem with this snowflake mindset, but if you don't take generalizations in consideration in dating, then don't take them neither in other areas of your life like health, finances and so on.

monopsychos · 2022-01-13T21:56:21+00:00

Anyone using statistics to find a partner is already an outlier from any norm, because normal people dont do that. Reddit is not the real world.

NoMarriageNoKids · 2022-01-14T03:53:59+00:00

I'm on the good side of the data and I work with people who you wouldn't think had potential. But, they get women. Why? Because they make a living and are responsible.

rufusjonz · 2022-01-14T14:20:21+00:00

I think when you actually talk/listen & connect with people, of any variety, you'll end up with more dates/getting laid more/finding partner, etc

But there is a numbers game -- if you keep casting your line, you will catch a fish eventually (and get better at fishing)

redback-spider · 2022-01-13T10:45:34+00:00

I don't think you should be obsessed with that numbers when you hook up with somebody, BUT if you want to calculate the risk of the relationship will be stable long term, this factors matter.

Now we have no perfect math that include every small detail, also women search for reasons to disqualify men, the smallest thing that is wrong in the beginnig will likely be a immidiete pass, they just don't usually trust statistics but listen to their single friends and blindly trust them, or look into astrology for their statistics.

And I don't talk primary physically, that can be most of the time be overwritten it's 99% behaviour (showing that you would be a strong probably good resource gatherer and protector).

What you say would be the equivalent that women should not make assumptions about man, wear whatever they want whereever they want and drink alkohol in this situations.

Mostly it's about a risk analysis and a warning that women are very very dangerous to men, so choose carefully.

We have even a old german saying for it, "so audit, who binds themself forever". And because this "forever" happens very seldom these days and people don't just marry the first relationship most of the time, the auditing is even more important.

You were to vague about what generalls you talked about concrete to give a better reply what you exactly mean.

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ThirdRocket-29965212 · 2022-01-13T12:00:52+00:00

Once you have numbers on your side, i.e. approach 20+ girls per week, then statistics start to work.

If you played dating game long enough, you easily can tell what partner is available to you.

E.g. many Caucasian men can easily date high quality black girls.

Title	Viewing dating as a marketplace might be the biggest failure someone can make
Author	bees-and-stuff
Upvotes	46
Comments	257
Date	January 13, 2022 8:46 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/s2uvgx/viewing_dating_as_a_marketplace_might_be_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/viewing-dating-as-a-marketplace-might-be-the.1096465 https://theredarchive.com/post/1096465

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