Men, women and murder - effects on the SMP/RMP

Nervous-Ad2859 · 2022-01-16T22:57:22+00:00

Men are probably the leading cause of murder against men, too. I don’t see a real story here. But, violence against women needs to be prosecuted better. Some countries don’t even care.

ThorLives · 2022-01-16T22:27:52+00:00

men seem to be a leading cause of death for women

nearly half of victims are killed by a current or former male intimate partner

Over half of all homicides (55.3%) were IPV-related

To be clear: women under 45 years old are unlikely to die from anything, and murder is not the leading cause of death in this relatively rare event.

Here's a chart. In the 25-34 age group, there are 22,581,141 women in the US. Homicide accounts for 806 deaths among that group (in a single year). If half of those are domestic homicide, then we're talking about 403 deaths from domestic homicide. So, each year, 1 out of 56,032 women in that age-group are killed by their intimate partner.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-age-and-gender

One of the flaws of the "leading cause of death" statistics is that it suffers from the problem that it's measured against other causes of death - which can be decreasing or very low.

For example, car accidents are the number 2 cause of deaths for women age 25-34 (1,808 deaths). Murder is the #4 cause (806 deaths). If new technology, like self-driving cars dramatically reduce traffic deaths, then a headline can read "homicide as a cause of death moves from #4 to the #3 cause of death for young women!" Meanwhile, homicides might actually be decreasing among young women, but the headline is misleading because it suggests that homicide of young women is increasing or that misogyny is increasing.

LittyKitsune · 2022-01-16T21:35:39+00:00

Probably related to the fact that abusers often escalate once they feel the other party is trapped/reliant on them.

Once a child is in the picture people who would have otherwise gotten the hell out of dodge feel an obligation to stay. It's why abusive/toxic women will often claim pregnancy if a guy is finally done with their shit, and one of the first pieces of advice people will give a woman who's in a toxic relationship is to make sure her birth control pills aren't being tampered with.

That__EST · 2022-01-16T21:19:49+00:00

I've often thought about this. Like I feel like someone could paint a good argument why pregnant women should live with their family of origin while they're pregnant because intimate partner violence can be heightened during pregnancy.

kissmetilyouredrunk · 2022-01-16T21:34:10+00:00

This is why it's important for women to have access to education, birth control, and abortion. Without those things you can't escape dangerous men

sarkington · 2022-01-16T21:38:12+00:00

It just means violent men aren’t cured by pussy and fatherhood, just like virgins aren’t cured of the female libido by dick

neetykeeno · 2022-01-16T23:29:18+00:00

You see this is why the argument that women should be economically forced into marriages so that men without sexual partners will not become violent is a steaming heap of shit. Being in a relationship does not rehabilitate violent men, it doesn't cure the anger in them, it just gives them a more easily accessible victim.

Devourer_of_felines · 2022-01-16T21:16:41+00:00

“One of the leading causes” technically true but in reality it’s 3.8% for women 20-44 and 7.4% for girls 1-19. Far below rates of death from cancer and suicide

https://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2017/all-races-origins/index.htm

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2022-01-17T00:30:54+00:00

"Leading" causes of death being less than 0.5 per 100,000? I mean...

In addition, most IPV murders are among lower class and already violent perpetrators. A white collar woman dating a white collar man has a much higher chance of dying of an opioid overdose, cancer, getting hit by a bus, or any other common cause of mortality than IPV

RedPill115 · 2022-01-17T02:45:45+00:00

It’s crazy to think about, but men seem to be a leading cause of death for women

No, this isn't even true.

https://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2017/all-races-origins/index.htm
1-19 years: unintentional injuries, cancer, suicide, homicide, birth defects, heart disease, Influenza and pneumonia, stroke, chronic lower respiratory disease, benign neoplasms
20-44 years: unintentional injuries, cancer, heart disease, suicide, homicide, chronic liver disease, diabetes, stroke, pregnancy complications, septicemia
45-64 years: cancer, heart disease, unintentional injuries, chronic lower respiratory diseases, diabetes, stroke, chronic liver disease, suicide, septicemia, kdney disease...(no homicide in the top 10)
65-84 years: (no homicide in the top 10)
85+ years: (no homicide in the top 10)
.
So the top 3 killers of younger women don't include even include homicide:
- unintentional injuries
- cancer
- suicide
.
But even here it's highly manipulative, the reason for these lists is because women are so safe. When almost no one dies, it's oddities that show up on the top list.

Do you know any 1-19 year old girls who have died of a Stroke? It's #8.

Homicide during pregnancy or within 42 days of the end of pregnancy exceeded all the leading causes of maternal mortality by more than twofold

Again, it's because women are so safe. Take their usual level of safety, and add on how much extra safety we go for for pregnant women, and almost anything can make this list.

Are pregnant women skydiving? Rock climbing high sheer cliffs? Are they wondering around town in the middle of the night? Let's say you have a woman who's a cop, is she reassigned to a safer role when she's pregnant? What about a pizza delivery driver, is she still delivering when she's 8 months in or is she staying off her feet?

And do you know anyone who died giving birth? I've known women to end up injured giving birth, but no one directly or indirectly in my lifetime who's died.

Again, it's that younger women are so safe - almost anything makes the list.

womandatory · 2022-01-17T07:58:24+00:00

Are you seriously suggesting that women are to blame for men killing them because ‘baby trapping’?? What the actual fuck??

GhostTheEternal · 2022-01-16T21:07:31+00:00

Wtknight removed my comments yesterday and told me directly that "race as it pertains to dating should not even be discussed on this sub. We do not allow posts about race at all, for instance".

The article you posted is about racial and ethnic differences. It's an illegal subject here.

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2022-01-16T23:24:59+00:00

The 2010 census of the US shows there were roughly 112,000,000 people between the age of 18 and 44. Roughly half of those (56,000,000) people are women.

According to the your link, 3,519 women under the age of 44 were murdered in the year 2015. Also from your link, only 55.3% of those deaths (1946) were from Intimate Partner Violence (IPV).

The most generous (?) number I can come up with is roughly 3.5 per 100,000 women under the age of 44 will die due to IPV each year. I say that number is 'generous' because I didn't include under 18s into the population number, but your link might have included under 18s in the murder count. This would inflate the deaths per 100,000. In other words, the actual number is less than or equal to 3.5 per 100,000.

These women certainly aren't choosing quality partners. Don't care to say much beyond that since 3.5 per 100,000 just isn't that much.

Slootando · 2022-01-16T22:04:27+00:00

Is this phenomenon the result of poor vetting?

Or perhaps the vetting is working, but a large subset of women vet for dark triad, dominant, violent men.

Homicide is a leading cause of death in women under age 44

According to this using CDC data, homicide is 4th for both women and men between the ages of 25-34, and 11th for women and 5th for men between the ages of 35-44. In both age ranges, there were several times more male homicide victims than female. "Homicide is a leading cause of death; women hardest hit" I suppose.

From the abstract of the second link:

There were 3.62 homicides per 100,000 live births among females who were pregnant or within 1 year postpartum, 16% higher than homicide prevalence among nonpregnant and nonpostpartum females of reproductive age (3.12 deaths/100,000 population, P<.05).

Looks like the statistical significance just made it past the "publishable" p-value of .05. The arithmetic difference there is just 1/2 a death per 100,000 women. I wonder if the statistical significance would hold if looking at non-black groups, since:

Pregnancy was associated with a significantly elevated homicide risk in the Black population and among girls and younger women (age 10–24 years) across racial and ethnic subgroups.

Considering this result, would be interesting to see the figures stratified by ethnic group. I wasn't able to find the paper on Sci-Hub.

tiposk · 2022-01-16T22:34:04+00:00

Violent men show red flags before the relationship becomes serious. If the woman grew up in an environment where these red flags are dismissed as normal male behavior she might not notice anything wrong with her partner until he gets physically violent.

Sometimes, violence itself is the norm in certain circles. For example, if your dad punched your mom three times a week, a man who does this to you only once in a while seems like a complete gentleman.

I'm not sure why violence increases during pregnancy, but I guess that it's a stressor. If the man uses violence to solve all his relationship issues then it shouldn't be surprising that he will use it to deal with the pregnancy.

abaxeron · 2022-01-16T22:10:01+00:00

It’s crazy to think about,

Be honest - would it be less or more crazy if instead of homicide, a leading cause of death in its place was AIDS, tuberculosis, occupational injury, or starvation? Would it make Western women bitch less about being the safest demographic in known history of the species?

What are your thoughts on the below,

Not many. "A leading cause" is a deliberately vague and misleading term that depends on how long your sorted table is. "Cancer" is lumped into one category. Homicide is not broken down by assailant's gender. Any woman who thinks that men are making her life worse is free to go live in a lesiban commune.

throwaway4plebbit · 2022-01-16T23:23:33+00:00

A) people under 44 rarely die

B) murder is rare, especially so for women. Only 1/1000 women die from murder. 50% means 1/2000 from IPV. By contrast 1/250 men die from murder.

If u scale the numbers there isn’t that big a diff between men murdering women and women murdering men. But as previously stated murder is very rare in general so it’s a non issue

purplish_possum · 2022-01-16T23:45:50+00:00

Two decades in the criminal justice system and I've yet to have a homicide with a female victim. These are increasingly rare events.

oflbtbs · 2022-01-16T23:13:38+00:00

Homicide accounts for 3.8% of deaths among females ages 20-44 in the United States. Given that suicide accounts for 7.6%, I'd say women are more to blame for deaths in that group than men. LINK

baresquad · 2022-01-16T21:26:35+00:00

It’s not a phenomenon of poor vetting (saying that sounds like victim blaming) or “baby trapping” it’s a product of violence. That’s it. Violence.

When I was in law school our criminal professor said something like of all homicides a majority of them are carried out by men against women. It has nothing to do with the type of men women are choosing and has everything to do with perpetrators being violent

A woman can be murdered by a stranger in the same way that she can be murdered by a partner or relative

Edit: professor was likely speaking on domestic violence.

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-01-16T22:41:45+00:00

Is there a economic class that this is more prevalent in ?

Murdering of pregnant women

2022-01-17T03:24:36+00:00

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Vtridolla · 2022-01-16T21:20:12+00:00

We gotta take care of our women god damn.

This is a result of systemic and socioeconomic oppression. Leading to broken homes, and not teaching the youth how to treat humans.

wtknight · 2022-01-16T21:20:07+00:00

Women often like confident men with swagger, but sometimes these men can be dangerous. So yeah, a lot of it is poor vetting, although I don't want to victim blame, as it's the men who are the evil ones committing the crime.

In the past, women single still lived with their families and had fathers and brothers around to help protect them. This is what things are like in my wife's family. In her family, male relatives have protected female relatives numerous times from threats from other men. I've read that sometimes in-laws can take advantage of married women, though, so this type of setup where family is always around isn't always a good thing.

srqfla · 2022-01-16T22:56:39+00:00

I understand women have conflicting feelings about men. On the one hand. Strange men are the greatest risk to her safety, comfort, and security.

But strange men are also inherently and fundamentally critical to her comfort and survival.

Strange men are critical to her future safety, comfort and security. For the rest of a woman's Life, regardless of her age, every car repair, roof replacement, plumbing repair, heating and air conditioning repair will be done by a strange man. When the electricity in her house goes out, the electrical lines will be repaired by a strange man. When she calls 911 because someone's breaking into her house statistically a strange man with a badge and a gun will come to her house and protect her.

I understand the paradox knowing that her future safety can go either way based on a strange man.

To be fair, everything I mentioned above will be repaired by a strange man in my life as well. I will rely on strange men for the rest of my life to assure me comfort, safety and survival.

There is no equivalent in a man's life of a group of people or individuals for whom we are utterly afraid of and dependent upon. I have sympathies for women's conflicting feelings

throwaway3030399 · 2022-01-16T21:34:42+00:00

Gonna say same thing as I said on other thread

Seems like too many women are selecting literal murderers and getting bred by them, its on women who got into relationship and decided to make babies with psychopaths/violent men

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-01-16T21:11:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Jakes1967 · 2022-01-16T21:59:40+00:00

Homicide is a leading cause of death in women under age 44

Nice narrow lens and IPV includes lesbian couples, who are the most violent.

Invisible Victims: Same-Sex IPV in the National Violence Against Women Survey by Adam M. Messinger

Unintentional injury was the leading cause of death, followed by homicide and suicide.

As soon as we go over 40 the diseases take over.

Now let's muddy the water further:

"Compared to other developed nations, the United States has the highest rate of child homicide: 8.0/100,000 for infants, 2.5/100,000 for preschool-age children (age 1–4 years), and 1.5/100,000 for school-age children (age 5–14 years) (3).:

So women account for a lot of those deaths, not just men - but nice try.

logiauser · 2022-01-16T21:36:31+00:00

I think it’s probably a little of everything.

My anecdotal guess is that women seem to be more risk prone than men. Not exactly sure why but I’ve had tiny women just waltz into areas where I’d have my eyes peeled.

It’s like the solo travel into not so safe countries. I feel like men are more cautious overall…?

Unfortunately men can be violent. It’s why we need good fathers to train/raise young boys and men. I don’t think my mum could have kept me in check by herself.

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social_mule · 2022-01-17T00:13:52+00:00

What are your thoughts on the below, and how it affects the behavior of women in the SMP/RMP?

I think it's deplorable. Life sentences without the possibility of parole for all convicted murderers! As for the second half of your question, I'm not a woman so I won't speak for women. I think it would be better if a woman speculated on how this affects the behavior of women in the SMP/RMP.

Do you feel that there is some reason for these stats? That maybe the
homicide stats during pregnancy should serve as a warning against baby
trapping?

Call me old fashioned but my motto is marry before you carry. The abstract doesn't specify whether expectant mothers are being murdered by their husbands, their boyfriends, their FWBs or just random guys they hooked up with. But if I was a betting man I'd say very few husbands are murdering their pregnant wives. So yeah, marry before you carry. It's not a panacea but it should curb this trend.

Is this phenomenon the result of poor vetting?

Poor vetting is a contributing factor but it isn't the only factor.

TheOffice_Account · 2022-01-17T05:48:22+00:00

men seem to be a leading cause of death for women

The same is true for men as well. This is why I introvert so hard.

_that_dam_baka_ · 2022-01-17T12:57:38+00:00

Men are stupid. They trust everyone. They die from all sorts of people.

Women are stupid but paranoid. They trust very few people, like intimate partners. They die from the people they trust.

What's the overall number like? Number of participants?

MarBitt · 2022-01-17T13:13:35+00:00

What does SMP / RMP mean?

MarBitt · 2022-01-17T13:36:47+00:00

Do you feel that there is some reason for these stats? That maybe the homicide stats during pregnancy should serve as a warning against baby trapping? Is this phenomenon the result of poor vetting?

It's quite culturally conditioned, and it's likely to be directly linked to lack of education, poverty, and a generally violent and criminal environment. Alcohol and drugs will have a big impact.

By race/ethnicity, non-Hispanic black women had the highest rate of dying by homicide (4.4 per 100,000), followed by AI/AN (4.3), Hispanic (1.8), non-Hispanic white (1.5), and A/PI women (1.2). Violence by men is more often fatal than violence by women.

An educated middle and upper class woman with a stable family background will be many times less likely to die from domestic violence by an intimate partner during her pregnancy than a ghetto woman living with a violent alcoholic with a rich criminal history.

Situations where a man behaves peacefully and a woman has no idea about his violent tendencies until her pregnancy certainly exist, but they will rather be an exception.

More often than not, a submissive woman with miserable childhood patterns dies because she chooses one violent partner after another.

Or a woman who is herself aggressive and violent towards her partners and where there is frequent alcohol or drug violence on both sides. Pregnancy is a burden and a stress factor for most relationships, a woman is affected by changing hormones... So when partners fight normally, it can be even worse during pregnancy. A man may not be more aggressive, but he is probably stronger, and manifestations of his violence are more often fatal.

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2022-01-17T14:51:50+00:00

I think, misinterpreted, fake or poorly explained (out of context) statistics have far more negative effect on women's behavior in regards of dating then anything else. It's nothing more easier then to spread paranoia among women by saying, 1 in 4 college women are raped or IPV is a gender issue, caused by men.

Yes, murder is AMONG the leading causes (fixed it for you) of death. But as many have said below, a woman from the hood, hooked with a guy with criminal history is far more likely to be killed then an educated woman, being with a middle class guy with no criminal history.

Also don't forget, that women are more likely to INITIATE IPV then men, and the highest predictor of women getting injured in domestic settings is if they do initiate.

If you do not want to be in an abusive relationship where your life is at risk, don't be an abuser, vet properly, and take responsibility for your choices. If you keep finding yourself in abusive relationships, chances are, you need therapy, because you do seek out those men for some reason. It's not because men are like that, it's because (more often then not) you're only looking for those types of men without ever realizing it.

You do not stop violence by telling people not to be violent, nor do you stop it with better policing. You stop it by raising children in a healthy, two parent household.

fwoketrash · 2022-01-17T16:50:33+00:00

America has a very high murder rate because it's a dump.

Men tend to be more violent and therefore are more likely to be the murderers (even if 99.99% of men aren't murderers). If America was less of a backwards, uncivilized dumpster fire this would be less of a problem. Countries with lower murder rates don't really have this problem.

Also, most murderers in the US are children of single mothers.

Zerofication · 2022-01-17T21:56:34+00:00

It’s crazy to think about, but men seem to be a leading cause of death for women

Because other causes rarely happen; females don't have enough testosterone to dare to do anything remotely dangerous. Hell, they don't even dare to ask men out due to fear of rejection.

Smitten_Squire · 2022-01-18T03:24:40+00:00

Dont date losers. Harder said than done apparently

srqfla · 2022-01-26T23:48:00+00:00

I agree Men are the leading cause of threat and danger to women, but men are the leading cause of a woman's electricity being fixed. Roof repaired. Plumbing corrected and heating ventilation air conditioning system working so that they can survive

ruboyuri · 2022-01-17T03:36:47+00:00

This is the price of men

Women choose to pay it, and that’s on them

GigamusPax · 2022-01-17T08:49:04+00:00

Who initiates more?

Men, women and murder - effects on the SMP/RMP

Comments

All humans are miserable because we value status and image over substance.

Title	Men, women and murder - effects on the SMP/RMP
Author	SmurfESmurferson
Upvotes	48
Comments	430
Date	January 16, 2022 8:58 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/s5lfa9/men_women_and_murder_effects_on_the_smprmp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-women-and-murder-effects-on-the-smprmp.1097179 https://theredarchive.com/post/1097179