If stealthing is legally considered rape, so should lying about birth control be treated as reproductive coercion and be equally punished

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2025-12-19T03:11:39+00:00

It should be treated the same way.

Demasii · 2025-12-19T03:28:38+00:00

As others stated, it's hard to prove even if they are illegal acts.

The main difference is STD exposure. Stealthing deliberately subjects someone to that risk without any good faith effort to prevent it.

toasterchild · 2025-12-19T03:12:04+00:00

You can already sue for this, problem is that like stealthing, it's often hard to prove actual fraud instead of simple birth control failure. Then you run into the issuesxl of money to fund the lawsuit and does the person you're suing have any assets.

People with assets don't typically have unwanted children.

Disastrous_Agent9307 · 2025-12-19T03:46:43+00:00

I mean yeah, I can't really see a reason why not.

The only thing I'd mention for things like the pill is that there's perfect use and well, the way most women take it which is not perfect use. So, I wouldn't include that as rape because there's not a malice there, just irresponsibility.

And I'll be honest, boys, use a condom. Like chemical birth control is extremely effective, but it's not perfect and there's so many things that can render it ineffective or less effective. Like it is as much an art as it is a science and the gynos will often tell you this.

Trying to prove a woman stealthed you by not taking the pill is a legal nightmare. It fails normally. It's easy to forget to take, it's easier to forget to take at the same time every day. Like, just don't.

kayceeplusplus · 2025-12-19T05:03:12+00:00

I agree

It just will be a lot harder to prove

Barneysparky · 2025-12-19T03:19:53+00:00

All methods of birth control have failure rates. How would you prove this in court?

KayRay1994 · 2025-12-19T04:44:16+00:00

I’m gonna say yes, it should be as it also is lying in a way that would alter the state of consent

Though I wonder how it would act in practice - it is nearly impossible to prove beyond an accusation even from the victim unless the woman does get pregnant. Of course this shouldn’t take away from the fact that it should be considered rape, because it should - im just figuring out what it migjt look like in practice

TrumpFucksKidz · 2025-12-19T05:14:13+00:00

Involuntary impregnation is rape, regardless of which gender does it.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2025-12-19T06:11:34+00:00

Absolutely it should. It is a horrendous thing to lie about.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2025-12-19T08:14:22+00:00

Yes, both should be illegal, but will always be difficult to prove.

Imo, stealthily is worse though, because it exposes someone to diseases.

TheOneWhoThinketh · 2025-12-19T03:19:23+00:00

I believe that even for pregnancy that occurs due to medical mishaps (doctors somehow giving a pregnant woman the impression that she is not pregnant), in the U.S. you could only sue the medical facility for the costs of the pregnancy and birth of the child, as the child acquires rights when it is born and is treated as separate from issues related to its birth and the mother's pregnancy.

harmonica2 · 2025-12-19T03:29:19+00:00

How is the condom removed exactly, like the guy pulls out, removes it and then see if the woman will still react positively?

jorts-enthusiast · 2025-12-19T05:02:54+00:00

Yes.

PrecisionHat · 2025-12-19T14:36:43+00:00

I believe that would be fraud in the factum (as opposed to in the inducement) and so it would be (or should be) legally actionable in a lot of developed places around the world.

bluestjuice · 2025-12-19T17:00:07+00:00

I don't know that I'm knowledgeable enough to speak to the legal angle, but I think that knowingly misrepresenting birth control status is definitely an ethical violation akin to stealthing.

Ashwinnie13 · 2025-12-20T01:33:11+00:00

Lying about birth control can definitely lead to significant harm, similar to stealthing.

ThatBitchA · 2025-12-19T04:49:36+00:00

The individual should be responsible for their own birth control.

I never let something like pregnancy up to the other person.

ta06012022 · 2025-12-19T05:28:52+00:00

Stealthing is a civil offense in three US states, but it isn't a criminal offense like rape anywhere in the US. What country is this post about?

januaryphilosopher · 2025-12-19T06:49:25+00:00

There is a difference in that stealthing changes the sex act (something enters you that you didn't consent to) while not using another contraceptive only affects what happens after. Stealthing also exposes you to STI risks you didn't consent to. Stealthing would still be a problem in cases of sex between two men, or straight sex where at least one is sterilised. Condoms can't simply be forgotten without the person taking them knowing like a birth control pill. I'm not saying what should be done about this difference, but simply saying there is one and there may be reasons to treat them differently. In some countries a case can be made for rape by deception, although I'm not sure if this has ever been successfully prosecuted for someone lying about birth control that's not a condom (mind you, the rate for rape cases is very low in general). (Also, men can already do both, as they can lie about having a vasectomy.)

TheRedPillRipper · 2025-12-19T03:41:34+00:00

reproductive deception

The issue is what consent entails.

Say two people agree to sex, but not childbirth.

Unplanned conception occurs.

If the woman chooses to keep the baby; did she lie? She’s entitled to change her mind. Both parties mutually consented to one specific outcome. Why then is she not to held account for her word?

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ChewedMyWayOutOfThat · 2025-12-19T20:10:21+00:00

law should treat cases where someone lies about using birth control

So your argument is premised on the fact that since stealthing is criminalized for men, women who lie about birth control, having IUDs inserted and get pregnant should also have laws along those lines. Since the children were conceived by deception, men aren't responsible for their children.

Absolutely. It's only fair, right? If women get laws criminalizing men who remove their condom during sex, then men should get laws criminalizing women who lie about being on birth control and become pregnant as a result. However, you're equating each party's responsibility and consequences when they clearly fucking aren't.

The reason why the act of removing a condom during sex is a crime is because the woman has made it clear she doesn't want his uncondomed cock in her, as a condition of sex. This act is criminalized because the man is putting her at risk of pregnancy and STDs. The women, in this case, has taken all steps to avoid pregnancy and STDs. It is also not recommended for her to also use a female condom as both can rub together and break. She has no choice but to rely on the man or else she wouldn't have had sex.

But your analogy breaks down here. Women do not deposit their eggs into men like men deposit their sperm into women. The woman is not putting the man at risk of pregnancy. The man, in this case, hasn't taken all steps to avoid pregnancy like the woman above. He could have used a condom but chose not to because he prioritized his orgasm and himself over safe sex. Just because men often choose poorly doesn't mean they didn't get a choice.

Men are using the crime of men putting their uncondomed cock in women to absolve themselves of their responsibility for their sperm. If men aren't responsible for where their sperm ends up, then who the fuck is? Women are always accountable for every egg they release, whether it be bled out monthly or fertilized.

This is why l have a problem with your argument, because you're claiming privileges for men as if they do go through pregnancy and childbirth or abortion. They fucking don't. You're ignoring these biological realities. That is what the law is there for, to rectify these biological inequities that women and only women go through, not for fucking men to piggy back and absolve responsibility for their sperm.

Inabind369 · 2025-12-19T21:43:43+00:00

If I don’t trust my partner to be truthful about her being on bc the default is to wrap it up. Focus on what you can control and for a man that is condoms. The difference between condoms and bc is one doubles as a prophylactic and the other just prevents pregnancy. Pregnancy risk is always assumed during any sex, no matter how small, no bc is 100% effective. Risk of disease can be mitigated through sti testing and monogamy. Pregnancy risk is present to some degree until she is infertile. For me I can quote literally verify, as can any man who has a partner with an iud, you can literally feel the strings, they don’t feel good and are a bit pointy. Steal thing and lying about bc are not the same. Don’t trust strangers or women you aren’t committed to or willing to have a kid with to take bc reliably. Many women don’t actually lie, they just don’t take their bc pill exact same time every day, which really matters. The result is less effective bc.

Content_Concert_2555 · 2025-12-20T19:07:31+00:00

Both are rape by deception so I can see why there should be legal penalties. And by the way there’s no real conflict between feminism and believing rape by deception is a thing. Edit: Also to be clear it’s a direct deception about the sex itself rather than “they lied about their religion or job or being single” which (although shitty) seems to me to be different.

Helpful_Set5358 · 2025-12-22T21:00:32+00:00

The female body creates the child. Be responsible with your swimmers.

You can easily deny her child support and refuse any interaction with her or the kid.

She's growing something inside her body..

3if83i6 · 2025-12-23T05:49:01+00:00

we're a society under attack by foreign powers

Spiderinthecornerr · 2025-12-23T10:02:33+00:00

That falls under the category of stealthing already.

Who are you arguing with?

Junior-Campaign-6326 · 2025-12-19T03:39:11+00:00

How about men take responsibility for their own birth control. Or stop having sex if you dont want kids. Men are allergic to accountability.

Blacktransjanny · 2025-12-19T04:28:05+00:00

But that would hold women accountable for lying...

No-Hovercraft-455 · 2025-12-19T04:53:40+00:00

I agree. Consent to sex isn't consent to reproduction and the second thing happening with only one party's approval is a very bad thing that's weaponizing something deeply personal and intimate that wasn't consensually shared against the person. It's extremely disturbing.

I think it should be punished, and it's not a civil matter because it's far too serious. There are certain things about people and physical reality of existing as human that should be completely off limits, untouchable and always respected.

I'm never one that advocates for throwing someone jail unless it's estimated that the person is continuous danger to other people. So, to keep consistent with my core principles around what jail is and isn't for (a precaution to protect others in society, not just punishment because you need to find one) I would say that the punishment should focus on rehabilitating and repairing damages and probably not involve jail time.

I think there's no way to keep children out of it for same reason you can't keep them out of rape. This crosses the limit to territory where someone's human rights are about to get trampled so badly that some compromises between bad and horrid might have to be made.

That being said even rape victims still have parental responsibility for their kids. Technically speaking if their rapist could acquire the child the victim could be forced to pay child support to him and I believe there are even cases it happened. Even the existing laws can create quite horrible situations for families involved. I'm unsure what's the least harm scenario but one thing I know is that sexes should not be deliberately put in different positions so if rapist or stealther or one that lied about birth control has the baby then either all the victims pay child support or they all get to relinquish whether they are mothers or fathers.

Them (the victims of rape, stealth or other coercion) paying child support feels wrong to me on deep level but then again that money is for the child, not punishment for anyone's actions so I could be made to somewhat "accept" system where that happens as bandaid solution if it's the only way to keep the child with parent that wants it and financially funded. But I'd only accept it because we seem to be in stone era where we realistically don't take very good care of relinquished children overall, and not because it's a solution I'm actually happy with.

reddit_is_geh · 2025-12-19T18:56:35+00:00

Bro... It's not that easy.

These are nuanced complicated issues, that aren't 1 to 1 the same. Just like men and women aren't 1:1 equal in every way, so are the situations that revolve around them.

When getting engaged in a sexual act, you know the risks... Yes, she can be lying, and yes, you could get a kid. But once that process starts of a child being created, it's ENTIRELY her choice and as a guy, you just have to deal with the consequences. You flew too close to the sun and need to be smarter. Because it's not in the interest of the child to start allowing dads to just ghost or start punishing children. The whole context of everything changes once a third party is introduced, and so will the way the state views how these cases are handled.

BurbNBougie · 2025-12-20T04:17:59+00:00

If consent to sex within certain parameters were agreed upon, and the person lied to get sex, there's no consent. Just like stealthing. The problem that a man would have is proving this. Outside of a confession, she could've forgotten or the BC failed.

mcmlxiv1 · 2025-12-19T03:39:38+00:00

I don’t think that works because being a victim of a sex crime is only the domain of women.

That’s why when little boys get r*ped no one cares I am including when male priests are the culprits, people just make jokes and move on.

It is unfortunate but it’s part of the WAW effect, women don’t care about it or they will redirect attention to themselves with What Aboutism and then other men will try to support you but will be made to feel guilty by women.

Green_Quiet1717 · 2025-12-19T04:45:41+00:00

Condoms and vasectomy exist.

CatchPhraze · 2025-12-19T05:20:25+00:00

I don't think so, one carries the risk of STDs the way the other doesn't and involves nonconsensual bodily contact and fluids the way the other doesn't.

I do think that using a tossed condom to try and impregnate yourself is violating consent with those fluids and should be treated the same way.

yamb97 · 2025-12-19T06:30:06+00:00

Stealthing isn’t legally considered rape currently. I don’t think “rape” is the correct word here but I do think it is reproductive coercion. Yes, I do also think that lying about birth control is also reproductive coercion and both should be equally punished. Very unpopular opinion… I also believe that “paper abortion” should be allowed in the sense that a man has the same amount of time a woman does to decide that he does not want to be a father and should not be held financially or otherwise responsible for a child if he chooses so. That only works if abortion is legal and readily accessible of course. It is the only fair way.

Flightlessbirbz · 2025-12-19T09:55:20+00:00

If a man told me he’d had a vasectomy when he had not, I would consider that a type of fraud, but not rape. Why? Because I could still say “cool but I don’t know you like that, I still want us to use a condom.” Stealthing or poking holes in condoms is on a different level from lying about one’s own birth control or fertility status, since you’re sabotaging someone else’s choice to use birth control.

Stealthing and tampering also can leave physical evidence of deception, while you can only really guess if someone lied about birth control or it simply failed (unless they admit it).

kvakerok_v2 · 2025-12-19T04:27:23+00:00

Make paternity fraud an automatic felony retroactively and introduce mandatory genetic tests with mandatory child support payback. I guarantee that within a week the incarceration rates will not be gender skewed anymore lol.

Poppy_Luvv · 2025-12-19T07:18:15+00:00

This is why we need sex education. People are extremely bad at taking medication, any medication! Failure rate for typical use for the pill is 5-10%

Much better odds than nature gives you, but that's extremely high. There's no way to parse that out from lying. If someone is on the mini and misses their window, they can ovulate and boom, baby.

Tricking someone into becoming a parent is evil to them, but esp the kid. But most people are just stupid and ignorant.

Makuta_Servaela · 2025-12-19T13:20:42+00:00

So push for the laws to exist. Stealthing didn't become recognised because some lawmaker thought about it one day. Only very recently did countries start passing laws about it, and that's because people pushed their lawmakers to do so.

If you want the laws to exist, you have to actually put work in, just like women did to get the Stealthing laws to exist.

UndeniablyGone · 2025-12-20T01:13:00+00:00

I don't agree that it's rape in either case. You're already both agreeing to do the thing that causes reproduction. You assume the risk of pregnancy regardless. You don't want to risk having kids AT ALL, then you need to assume the responsibility of it yourself instead of relying on the other party to do so.

Title	If stealthing is legally considered rape, so should lying about birth control be treated as reproductive coercion and be equally punished
Author	Mountain_Resident_34
Upvotes	143
Comments	219
Date	December 19, 2025 2:52 AM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1pqa0j7/if_stealthing_is_legally_considered_rape_so/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-stealthing-is-legally-considered-rape-so-should.1569207 https://theredarchive.com/post/1569207

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