Redpillers, and FDS. What are the ideas that you disagree with when it comes to your own community?

reluctantly_red · 2020-04-23T21:27:39+00:00

TRP encouraging clueless guys to push through last minute resistance is absolutely insane.

i_cri_evry_tim · 2020-04-23T23:21:12+00:00

Red Pill: plating as a default form of engaging with women. Pushing through LMR.

These dudes need to drop the porn fantasy that they will plate every woman who is not entirely subordinate to their whims and desires, continue to act this way until they are half way through their thirties and then somehow magically find a high value 22yo almost virgin who is also a 9/10 and will want them over the wide variety of 25ish high value dudes available to her.

It hardly gets any more delusional than that.

Also, all the morons who advocate “LMR is just a sham she actually wants the D” need to fucking die from COVID-19.

NOT giving such advice to a community where the vast majority of guys are likely to be socially dysfunctional with women should be common sense.

Apparently it is not.

icefire54 · 2020-04-23T22:48:03+00:00

For red pillers, the wall. The only grain of truth "the wall" has is that older men can have children while older women can't. But that's where it ends. Both men and women become less attractive when they get older, but older women still have an easier time getting sex than older men. The idea that women age badly whereas men age "like wine" is a cope that is only true for a small subset of men who can get enough resources to override their declining attractiveness. It doesn't apply to most men.

siberiansummer · 2020-04-23T21:35:39+00:00

FDSer. 90 day rule. I couldn't wait that long if I like the guy

dalia-chan · 2020-04-23T22:49:38+00:00

RP here for years.

That women are mentally inferior and tied to their evolutionary imperative. Men are the exact same, just manifests differently. If you leave the red pill feeling superior to women you’re doing it wrong. We are all animals at our core

AWALT to some degree. I firmly believe all women respond to the same Attraction triggers (Have enough experience single handily to confirm) and all have the capacity to cheat, but this threshold is completely different for women.

That Marriage makes no sense. If you want kids it’s the only path. I’ve gotten Into arguments with people there saying find a woman who will have kids with you outside of marriage. Absolutely hysterical to think for anyone of decent quality signs up for that. Also having kids and wife isn’t supposed to be around the clock fun. Kids alone is a major sacrifice

That said it is mostly spot on, and tbh turned my relationship life around. I was a sexless loser before red pill and became a chad type after it, and years of improvement, that has been with Dozens of high tier women (former models, doctors, athletes, college cheerleaders, lawyers, etc) So I’ll defend that shit til my last breath. It works

usa_foot_print · 2020-04-24T03:49:57+00:00

Mate guarding. Haven't been on RP sub in a while but they used to miss the mark on this 100%.

It is not only expected of men, it is viscerally attractive to women when her man "claims" her and fights off other males. For all the talk about shit tests and frame, they certainly fall into the bluepill frame that mate guarding is "insecure" and you should let other guys chat up, flirt, and buy your girl drinks in front of you cause you're "too alpha too care".

Bullshit, you wanna try that shit on some real "dark triad" guys girl at the bar and you'll be picking up your teeth on the sidewalk.

I'm a chill guy most of the time but have no shame mate guarding and putting dudes in their place if they try something with my girls. Stoicism isn't winning you any favours there.

2020-04-23T21:30:18+00:00

That women should never pay for themselves.

I actually enjoyed it. I was proud of my job and the fact that I make good money, and I kind of liked to show of (only during dates though).

TheJim66 · 2020-04-23T21:39:36+00:00

The "muh mission" obsession. Like , I understand that its great advice to give to men so that they depedestalize women , build idgaf attitude and amass resources but some on the sub take it way too seriously. Chill dude, you are selling shoes or whatever meaningless shit you are doing, you aren't liberating Africa.

Also the "split the bill " Thing. You shouldn't be going on expensive dates anyway, giving 5 more bucks than you otherwise would will get you more pussy than splitting the bill.

paint-the-world-red · 2020-04-24T03:07:43+00:00

The idea of pushing through LMR always rubbed me the wrong way. I need a sign that you’re 100% ready to take the train to poundtown. I ain’t going to prison over poontang.

AWALT to some degree. I think that 95% of women find the same things attractive across the board. As far as the cheating part, every woman has the capacity for it and some have higher or lower thresholds of what they can handle until they bite the bullet and do the deed.

The idea that we’re somehow mentally superior to women and at the same time not shackled by our own nature. We’re just as shackled to our biology, more so that women depending on how you look at it. We are all just dirty animals living in a wet rock.

The idea that marriage is 100% pointless. Now if you don’t want kids then that’s something different altogether but if you do want kids, it’s in the best interest of the kids that they grow up in a two-parent household. But marriage isn’t all sunshine and roses, the shit looks hard and you need equal, consistent, effort on both sizes in order to maintain it.

RP has changed my life for the better, though. I feel and look better and I have more control of where my life is going and I’ll keep endorsing RP.

teibe · 2020-04-24T02:40:47+00:00

FDS. I see a lot of investment early on as a red flag, not a HVM. I look for sustainable investment that is proportional to the amount of time we've been together. If he is taking me on fancy dates from the start he's a love bombing type.

SeemedGood · 2020-04-23T21:48:58+00:00

That women are not capable of appreciating a man for his being without regard to his utility to themselves, and thus actually loving him - which (for me) is the equivalent of saying that women don’t have souls.

Although the majority of the women on this sub lend credence to that theory with their assertions, I still don’t believe it and remains an open question for me.

That said, I have neither had nor directly observed an experience which would falsify the theory, but I do believe that my wife might be close to being able to do so and I have heard circumstantial evidence of women who may have.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2020-04-24T04:18:09+00:00

I'm purple, but I am an MHRA so technically I get filed with the TRPers and Blackpillers even though I have some disagreements with each.

DISAGREEMENTS WITH TRP 1. The idea that women are inherently immature, irrational and don't truly know what they want. I think women are rational hypergamy maximizers and know exactly what they want but are unwilling to admit it openly. 2. The idea women all crave being dominated by men. I think the average woman is more into having a kind of psychological control over a powerful man... so think "big lion on a velvet leash" if you really want to understand women's preferred power dynamic. Indeed, every romance novel out there is based on it. 3. The idea that "confidence," "frame" and "money" are exceptionally relevant. Women aren't sexually attracted to money, and looks are by far the most important factor in women's attraction. 4. The idea that women suddenly biologically change to get horny over betas as they approach "the wall" (the reality is that settling for a beta is a compromise that leaves the woman sexually unsatisfied). 5. Neoreactionary politics in general (to be fair, not all TRPers accept those either).

DISAGREEMENTS WITH BLACKPILL 1. The idea that looks are 100% of what creates physical sexual attraction in women. Whilst I think Blackpillers are more correct about the importance of looks than Redpillers, if looks were 100% of the matter then there would be no complex courtship rituals or signalling games or 'shit tests'.

DISAGREEMENTS WITH BOTH 1. "AWALT." Yes, I know AWALT is more a therapeutic heuristic rather than a statement of fact. But outliers do exist and I think it would be fair to acknowledge that they are real (if rare). 2. The 80/20 rule. I think its closer to 66.6%/33.3% than 80/20.

katiesaysthings · 2020-04-23T22:31:22+00:00

FDS has a solid rulebook, but the women there are batshit insane. They all seem to have a history of being cheated on, if that’s any indication of the bitterness of the crowd.

Barely-moral · 2020-04-23T21:24:37+00:00

For redpillers, what are the things that you’re not okay with your community when it comes about women, or had an experience that showed you the opposite of that rule you’re not okay with?

The community is close to rotten. I don't engage with the community outside of PPD. I am only interested in the ideas and tools offered by TRP. And from those I disagree with any generalization that does not make room for exceptions and niches. I also disagree when someone tries to give TRP any "should" or single direction or application for the knowledge and tools present in TRP.

fromdusktildawnzzz · 2020-04-23T22:06:50+00:00

FDS. I really dislike how many women there look down upon sex workers. If a women (or man for that matter) wishes to use their body and sexuality as a commodity and profit from it then that’s their prerogative. I get that many of the women claim that they are just concerned for the safety and well-being of other women, but to act so ‘enlightened’ and holier than thou when it comes to sex work is so counterproductive. We should support women and their choices even if it’s not a choice we would personally make for ourselves.

rellik13xx · 2020-04-23T21:25:47+00:00

Why do you care? It's just echo chamber after echo chamber. That's all these online communities are.

tropicsGold · 2020-04-24T05:37:10+00:00

I am MRP but I am having trouble with some of the core concepts. The lessons from RP were a huge benefit to me in the past, but there are still some important issues to clear up now that I have thought on them for a while.

First, I think all of the alpha/beta stuff is just wrong. Women are attracted to men who are tall handsome fit etc. NOT to a-holes. It is true that there are many men who get girls despite being a-holes, but it is based on their physical attractiveness, not because they are asses. It is actually just like the way men pursue hot women who are psycho bitches. It is their physical attractiveness that draws the men, not their bitchy personalities.

I know several pure alpha type men and they were successful while they were young and hot, but they got discarded quickly once they were a bit older and less attractive. They were no less alpha, but no women want them any more. You need to make the distinction between strength (for example, standing up to a woman in a good way when warranted) vs just being a self centered ass. A good woman deserves love and respect.

Not only is alpha not always good, beta is not always bad. What about a surgeon? Is he an alpha? Or is he a beta who is offering provisioning? Smart powerful financially successful leaders are undeniably beta in most ways, but they are hugely attractive to women. And not just for money. Most women find successful smart and driven men to be very sexy. Even RP thinkers often get confused and mix alpha with clearly attractive beta qualities.

The truth in this morass is that strength and confidence are hot. Intelligence drive and financial success are hot. And weak clingy behavior is a huge turn off. So forget alpha and beta, strive for good looks, personal strength, intelligence drive and avoid weak clingy behavior.

Mimoxs · 2020-04-23T21:48:02+00:00

Not really very fds but

1) the whole "if a guy doesn't propose within a few years dump him" - the thought of marrying a guy you've barely known for 2 years is terrifying and I think it's bad advice

2) porn. I don't mind camgirls/egirls/solo girl paid content.

Porn is a difficult stance because iirc it prevents rape, but so much of it is rape, it's hard to draw a line, but I would be much more lenient whereas most pp'ers would say it should be entirely prohibited. I think if regulated it can be good bc it can keep men satisfied enough to not want to date/be with women.

banned_by_cucks · 2020-04-23T22:39:17+00:00

This probably doesn’t directly apply. But almost everyone associated with the manosphere on Twitter is just a swindling con-artist at this point just trying to commercialize the ideas of TRP.

Sid_Insidious · 2020-04-24T00:57:26+00:00

I have concerns with the way TRP enourages young men to pursue casual sexual relationships with women and doesn't reinforce enough the reality of him having no choice in reproductive matters once he ejaculates. We need to HAMMER HOME the reality that for a man, consenting to sex is consenting to parenthood and/or 18-25 years of child support.

Can you imagine what would happen if men were to take eggs that came out of women during sex and made a child with HER DNA, and WITHOUT her consent, and then had a lawyer send her a bill for 18 years of child support on the child's birthday?

Wow, I'd love to watch CNN for *that* story! lol

DangZagnut · 2020-04-23T21:21:54+00:00

Is this now TRP vs fds? Is blue pill not a thing anymore.

wtfisgoingonplsfix · 2020-04-23T21:34:06+00:00

You know this sub is mainly RP men, right? You’re not gonna get a lot of the latter lol

But since I do at least own a vagina I’ll jump in with something reaaaaaally controversial:

Sometimes, their definition of HVM sound... well.... like betas. Desperate betas. I want a valuable man but a valuable man won’t act like (or be) a desperate beta.

Don’t no woman want a desperate beta.

yuckyuck13 · 2020-04-24T01:37:32+00:00

Red pill lost it's true meaning. It's about being responsible for your choices and actions. If you choose to be a door mat, people will treat you as such. There's bad people in the world that will and can take advantage of you. If you let them it's your fault.

pinkyberries · 2020-04-24T16:05:14+00:00

FDS here:

I do agree with men paying for all dates but there is something that i don't agree with.

If a man chooses not to pay for the date, don't try to convince him otherwise or do mind games like saying "Oh, you don't have enough money?" or "Are you broke?" or "I forgot my credit card" just pay your part, get up and leave. No following dates or texts, drop it.

Also, it says that if you realized you won't be seeing that person anymore then ghost him but i disagree, i see why women would ghost as they are scared of backlash but in my opinion if you had a good date (he was not rude or anything) he does deserve a text without anything detailed, just text him "We are not on the same page/we don't have a lot in common" and if he's pressuring you or being rude then block him. I am against ghosting people.

Freevoulous · 2020-04-23T22:03:24+00:00

oh boy, Im mostly RP except the things I believe:

80/20 rule is factually wrong
most men have good sex lives
Confidence and Game > looks
Incelism is almost 100% the personal fault of the incel, not the society
getting laid is easy
PUA works
the future for men is bright, and the world is awesome, if they keep being active and DGAF

XtoDoubt · 2020-04-23T23:01:58+00:00

That you can tell what a woman's N count is and that only low N count women are suitable for ltrs.

WIA20XX · 2020-04-23T21:23:46+00:00

Feel like this question comes up all the time on this sub.

SMV.
people that question AWALT/unicorn hunting.
You know she is a slut if...
Dread.
Agree and amplify as THE response to so-called shit tests.
PUA is bullshit, just be alpha bro
There's this girl.
My LTR/my wife... Did something... How do I Control her?
Is this beta?
How Frame is misused.

parranna · 2020-04-23T21:21:04+00:00

Is FDS part of pink pill?

nosynobody · 2020-04-24T04:11:41+00:00

I don't agree on the paying for all dates or expensive dinner dates mostly because it doesn't translate to my country's dating culture at all.

For starters I wouldn't go on dinner dates with someone I don't know very well.

Also there js a lot of male entitlement for date paying. I live in a patriarchal country and most men by default will pay for dates. If am looking for someone more liberal taking turns to pay establishes more equality.

Also though some concepts of HVM are universal, I also think personal preferences would largely factor in. But ofc no concept can be universal. That being said sometimes the commenters can be very harsh in understanding individual perspectives which are even minor deviations.

bionix90 · 2020-04-24T17:25:06+00:00

I wouldn't label myself as a red piller as I disagree with a number of the more radical things they say but the worst has to be the sexual fetishization of 14-15 year old girls.

Sepean · 2020-04-24T17:33:02+00:00

If you take the core of red pill - the sexual strategy insights, the emphasis on taking personal responsibility for being attractive and alpha - I disagree with nothing of it. r/marriedredpill carries those principles.

If you take the main TRP sub, it seems to have a ton of insecure, weak, unattractive MRA- and incel-type whiners who would rather bitch about female nature than becoming the sort of man who take advantage of it. Beyond how girls feel about Chads and that men aren’t treated fairly in family court I can’t find much common ground with those guys. And they’re casting a bad light on the red pill, lots of people see the red pill as defined by them and not the real red pillers: alphas, Chads, players.

HB3234 · 2020-04-24T18:32:34+00:00

I am active in RPW and follow FDS, although I'm not permitted to post there (was a ban from day 1, probably for subscribing to RP forums). I find it weird how many RPW imply FDSers will die single and FDSers inply RPW are total pick-mes. I find both strategies incredibly synergistic.

ilike2snap · 2020-04-24T21:52:36+00:00

New to FDS but see where they’re coming from most of the time. However some stances seem reactionary. For one, I would never ask a man’s height because I don’t want him to focus on the physical so why would I focus on the physical? (lead by example). I also have a hard time getting on board with requiring them to pay for everything. I don’t understand the logic here. Don’t we ideally want to find a partner that values us for us, and we value them for them? Let’s drop the whole money/sex exchange completely. That said, I see how reactionarily women are implementing these tactics, because so so often we are valued solely for our fuckability, and guys fake all the other stuff just to use us and discard us. If they invest more ($), I guess they’re less likely to do so? I’d rather just see if he’s investing his time and attention to vet, because that’s what I want in the long run, not his money. I can make my own money.

hunhun1299 · 2020-04-25T00:29:01+00:00

I am a stripper. And the FDS community hates sex workers. :/ but I agree with other things. Mostly everything

rosalia999 · 2020-04-25T22:10:54+00:00

fds-er, i'd say im not too sure about the dont move in before marriage, and also the no kinky stuff ._.

tropicsGold · 2020-04-26T02:49:32+00:00

You keep talking about what women want, And what the average is, but those are not relevant to what I am saying. I am talking about the large number of women who are not average, outside the median. Are you saying that there is a shortage of men who marry women 20 years younger? There are tons of them, just look around you! Women complain about it all the time.

canadiandancingbear · 2020-04-26T03:29:19+00:00

Using the term “faggot” is very wrong, and ironically probably shows a lot of male insecurity. It’s all over Red Pill

romodoc1 · 2020-04-26T04:46:07+00:00

I’ve seen some FDSers say women care about a man’s physical appearance and youth just as much a men do and that women who are financially stable wouldn’t/shouldn’t care about the wealth of a man.

I simply don’t think those opinions are grounded in biological reality.

romodoc1 · 2020-04-26T04:47:38+00:00

I don’t believe the 3 month waiting period should be a strict rule. Instead I encourage women to develop their discernment.

bigredten · 2020-04-26T05:07:59+00:00

Blaming women even though their shit stinks too. "Yeah women suck" meanwhile, dudes never hit the gym or taken the time to learn game.

The redpill changed my life. I went from always being hopelessly friendzoned, scrawny, and shy to Never agreeing to a Friendzone (happens less frequently), dating on my terms, and being in better shape than most people I know.

TRP should be a place to discuss ideas, awareness, and a place for us to become the best we can be.

Instead I see a bunch dudes who do nothing but complain and just blame women for where they are in life. Pick up your Y chromosome and go change your life.

Anthony-waltzs · 2020-04-23T21:59:26+00:00

Splitting the bill, the person who initiates the date should be the one pays for the date. Logically it makes sense because you are asking for their time. But FDS disagrees for obvious reasons which we all know why.

Ballface8020 · 2020-04-23T23:29:47+00:00

well I'm a blackpiller so I don't know if I count, but since the blackpill is an offshoot of the redpill, I think I can offer things I dislike about the redpill:

-women are attracted to "alphas"; you can make yourself into an alpha

-learning "game" can help you get women

-self improvement will help you get women (gym, grooming, fashion)

-you need to keep using "game" even after you are already in a relationship

-"spinning plates"

-money attracts women

majani · 2020-04-24T00:35:08+00:00

[deleted]

2020-04-24T02:01:55+00:00

FDS. I disagree when the sub sometimes is openly being exploitative and no better than males are.

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Title	Redpillers, and FDS. What are the ideas that you disagree with when it comes to your own community?
Author	dalia-chan
Upvotes	28
Comments	477
Date	April 23, 2020 9:09 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/g6v0ci/redpillers_and_fds_what_are_the_ideas_that_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/redpillers-and-fds-what-are-the-ideas-that-you.655070 https://theredarchive.com/post/655070

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