Child support

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[–]bsutansalt 290 points291 points292 points 6 years ago* (196 children) | Copy Link

If women included child support as income they'd make a fuckton more than men in the aggregate. None of this 70 cents on the dollar bullshit (which is almost all from different choices anyway), and more like $1.16 for every $1 men make. Basically it's the exact opposite once ALL cash is included.

And don't get me started on the tax shelter women enjoy from this. That monetary reduction by the higher earning parent (eg men) means even LESS money in the man's pocket at the end of the day.

edit: The above is revised. I looked it up and that ~16% is about what women actually come out ahead all things being equal if child support payments were factored in as income.

The 16% is based on median income in the US and the average child support amount paid. The swing of that $4K CS gives women 16% more money. And that's before taxes are factored into it.

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Are you? You, like a lot of people, are misunderstanding that 70 cents on the dollar statistic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/amp/

The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That’s not at all the case. “Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35.

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Slightly below half. That percentage just likes to get married and divorced multiple times.

Divorce rate of FIRST marriages is around 40% IIRC.

Overall divorce rate is much higher because those same people go, remarry, and get divorced again (second and third marriages have like 60% and 80% divorce rate or something like that).

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Yes, but for example in my case, my ex has a master's and I have a bachelor's. We got married during her last year of bachelor's, so she got her master's while married. Tuition was free, because of her grades and resulting academic scholarship. We both thought this would result in good income.

We had two kids (not at same time), and agreed that while they were small (under 2), she'd be with them. She never quit a job though, always got fired (talking shit of coworkers to their face, just generally talking instead of working, preaching some religious stuff by end of marriage). She worked maybe for a total of 2 years out of our total 15 year marriage and divorced me, because by the end I was very upset about her not even looking for a job, and we got into constant arguments over it, plus I wasn't religious, she was getting more and more into it.

So now I'm paying alimony and child support. She bought a co-OP, I'm renting. She got the full 1.2k check for Corona, I've gotten half due to income (we each got one for kid, as we each claim 1, that's not adjusted for income btw). She doesn't work (nothing to do with Corona), divorce was almost 3 years ago, she's living off alimony and child support.

During my divorce by chance I was sitting at work next to another man, whose wife also filed for divorce. She also didn't work for far longer than they agreed to.

I really think this agreement of not working is getting milked hard. It doesn't even matter what's agreed from what I understood during divorce, just that she didn't work.

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[–]bsutansalt 34 points35 points36 points 6 years ago* (31 children) | Copy Link

Let me give you an example of the taxes...

Say dad makes $100K and mom makes $50K. As a WAG we'll say dad is coughing up $1200/mo in child support. That's $14,400 per year just in raw child support. But there's an additional hidden hit to his income from the taxes.

His 2019 Federal Income Tax Plus FICA would add up to $22,897 and her's would be $8,167. That's a combined $31,064 in taxes.

However, if the child support was taxable to the mom and added to her income ($64,400), then her 2019 Federal Income Tax Plus FICA would only be $12,270. And the dad's income would be lowered by the $14,400 paid, so his taxes would be $18,555. Combined their taxes would be $30,825.

Scale up that lost tax revenue over the millions of people paying child support and it's big bucks. That's why it's in Uncle Sam's best interests to make sure the higher earning parent gets taxed through the nose.

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not this bitch.%

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literally all of them that try to get it.

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This does not pass my smell test.

This would only apply to women receiving one of the two benefits, right?

Which the majority of women don’t receive. And while it is take home, it is not supposed to be considered as salary, right? It’s supposed to be for the time they spent building the household or caring for the kids...

And the comment saying that women are making choices that reduce their pay seems off too. For example, in 2018, women in finance in the UK made .64 for every one pound a man made... I find it hard to believe that is because women were ok with being 2/3rds as valuable as men... (source: Gender pay gap: Four things we've learnt http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43586574)

Women often times do go into careers that society has deemed not as valuable. Look at teaching compared to finance, for example. However, there are plenty of other examples like the financial industry one listed in that article.

And men who enter a women dominant field tend to do better financially. https://www.fastcompany.com/90450227/unemployed-men-who-take-traditionally-female-jobs-make-more-money -

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But It’s income for his child that they share? What makes you think there’s a shit ton of women living off of child support? How do you think so many women are also only supporting themselves with that child support, and not supporting that man’s child with his money? You need to count the fact that the money supports the child, not the woman, otherwise you’re full of shit, Idk any women who are single stay at home moms bc they make sooo much money in child support, do you? Do you even know how much a child costs to raise? And that’s in addition to also needing to support yourself. The non-custodial parent needs to at least contribute financially- it’s not that difficult of a concept to comprehend. When the man is the custodial parent and the woman pays child support you seem to understand it, but not the other way around? Hmm

What’s the alternative anyway, that she pay for 100% of the cost to support a child that they both share, AND raise the child for them both? He doesn’t have to raise the kid AND doesn’t have to support it financially? Are you seriously trying to make the argument that men should be able to just see their kid when they want and the mother has to house, feed, cloth, and take care of every aspect of the child’s upbringing and parenting, spend all her time on her kids, and on top of that- financially cover everything it costs to raise that kid? and the father doesn’t need to do anything or pay for anything, why? Like, are you guys dumb? Courts make men pay child support bc women are usually the ones who have to raise and take care of their kids alone after a divorce. Obviously, like in the above example, when men have the child in their custody and permanently under their care, the other parent needs to contribute to the welfare of their own child in SOME way- financially at the very least. Downvote me to hell, you’re just a bunch of cry baby incels with no actual arguement to counter what I’m saying.

Truth hurts doesn’t it? Everything can’t fit your nonsense narrative, sorry !

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Now she'll ask for partial custody in order to get the amount lowered.

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[–]ghetterking 33 points34 points35 points 6 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

wait but she literally just gave it up. doesnt it have some kind of time limit? like, you obviously have to give some kind of reason why you're physically unable to provide for your own child that you produced (and clearly it's not money). would any acceptable reason for that be even possible to get resolved in a short time, if at all?

eg: "i have stress at work, cant be fucked to care for a kid" -> "fuck you, you still have responsibility you lazy fuck"

eg: "i have serious disabilities that make it impossible for me to take care of a child" -> "alright. say goodbye forever, then"

eg: "i'm a bit sick right now, having a child feels kinda like a hassle now" -> "fuck you, you still have responsibility you lazy fuck"

eg: "i have serious mental issues that makes it impossible for me to take care of a child" -> "alright. say goodbye forever, then"

eg: "i feel kinda depressed because of the cis white patriarchy inventing capitalism to subjugate non-whites in imperialistic endevours, while being intolerant towards nonbinary/fluid genders, harassing all women sexually on a daily basis just by existing but you'll never understand because you're part of the system" -> "do you take credit cards or checks?"

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[–]PartyClock 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That's complicated for several reasons. I agree in principle because I see where you are coming from but there are scenario's where that couldn't work.

When you surrender custody it can be for a number of reasons. Say one parent needs time to get back on their feet and the other parent is able to handle the responsibility and takes over. During this time it might not be ideal to split custody as this creates extra hoops to jump through in terms of childcare. You need to get approval from the other parent for a lot of things, and get them to sign off as the other half in some complex situations (school, health issues, etc...). For a the parent who surrendered custody this may be too much of a burden to be able to handle at the time, or there may be no fixed address for them for a while for purposes of contact and visitation.

After the one parent is able to resume responsibility and become a part of their child's life once again it may be difficult to re-obtain custody or visitation rights if it is left up to the other parent. There could be plenty of personal issues between them, or the custodial-parent has no desire to share custody again and therefore would be able to set insane demands or straight up deny them the chance to see their kid(s).

In most situation I doubt that would be the case, but every now and then it may be an issue.

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[–]tupacsnoducket1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The context of the comment your reply to the is the entire reason what you said is asinine.

This is like someone saying "Guns kill people" then you going "Guns are fun" then someone else point out "Yes but guns kill people" and you going "WTF I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF THE VERY THING I REPLIED TO, GUNS ARE FUN"

edit forgot the obligatory "DO YOU KNOW HOW ENGLISH WORKS!?!" cause it's not like that.

This isn't you bring up a different subject.

This like someone commenting "some parts of the Weather in main can be shitty, I mean if you " then you going "Anyone who says they don't want to vacation in the northwestern part of main should never " then someone point out "eh i don't know, a lot of the weather in main is shitty" and then you going "

edit I mean if we're going to get hyperbolic and pretend context is meaningless and then gaslight someones understanding of the basic fundamentals of the English language like this isn't you pretending you don't understand that context is everything then lets go all in...right?

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This same thing happened to my wife. She asked for him to pay for my step daughters cheerleading classes. I have been raising her for the past three years and he hasn’t seen her since I have been around. Took him to court and now he pays $1,780 per month. He is a dentist and makes plenty of money but is a huge asshole. It would be even higher if he didn’t own his own practice and show that he pays himself $8,000 per month or something like that. He tries to get out of it every few months and skips payments all the time like we don’t notice. We just aren’t as big of assholes as he is so we record all of the missing payments but haven’t filed anything until he does something stupid. He sends me messages about me adopting her just so he can get out of child support. $1,780 per month is enough for him to want his child out of his life. What a loser.

[–]OldSpiceSmellsNice1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

You really should file. That money is for your child and your child deserves every cent towards their future.

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[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. $8k / mo is only $96k / yr. That's REALLY low for a dentist.

Especially with the expenses of having your own practice.

Even as ballpark estimates, seems quite a bit off.

After taxes, dude honestly might not have a ton leftover. I'd be shitty too if things didn't work out, but I'd probably be on the side of wanting to fight more to see my kid.

Did he and your wife just not get along at all or something?

[–]SharqPhinFtw 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Saw that part but it didn't register to me how it was related to the overall scheme of things. I still don't get it.

Where would the money go? Just a business account to try and claim it wasn't his personal income?

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[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I did read what you wrote. Every word. I just perhaps don't understand.

You said he makes plenty of money, but that he only pays himself $96k / yr. Does owning the practice have anything to do with what you were trying to say?

Can you clarify more? Why does owning the practice have an impact on how much he pays himself?

Is his money instead going into a business bank account, just so he can claim he makes less than he really does?

A good example of how to respond to my comment is here, so I think I understand now thanks to /u/dontpoopinthere: https://www.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/gpezgy/child_support/frmlljn/

I own a small business, but it's all passthrough income. I'm entirely ignorant of larger organizational structures and the accounting games you can play with them.

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[–]DraconicLore3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think it's fair or justified to simultaneously accept that a child might be subject to life 'behind the curve' by virtue of the fact that the other person who contributed to their existence doesn't wish to assist. I agree that it's an inequality in that women have more options available post-conception, but the fact remains that's how it is (on a biological level at any rate) and all we can do is work around that as best we can.
If a woman, assuming there are no cultural, ethical, religious, or medical factors here that might complicate this, refuses to have an abortion because they would like to keep a child even after acknowledging that their partner does not want to contribute, knowing that they will need assistance, there are some issues here with the mindset, and I don't want to ignore that. However, what we now have is a situation where a child will be born and, in the terms you used, be 'behind the curve' (and I also acknowledge that the situation will change based on socio-economic levels). To say the man, who contributed more or less half of the 'mistake' in conceiving the child, is exempt from taking responsibility for his actions when it will benefit the child's life purely because he does not wish to is seeming, to me, to be the more unbalanced and 'unjust' stance here, especially given that the amount of financial assistance owed is roughly calculated based on the amount able to be given.
I will reiterate that I acknowledge this changes based on other circumstances; cultural beliefs, ethics, existing financial situations and the like, and so what I wrote there should be considered within the context given.

[–]SlapMyCHOP3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think it's fair or justified to simultaneously accept that a child might be subject to life 'behind the curve' by virtue of the fact that the other person who contributed to their existence doesn't wish to assist.

This is a base disagreement in our values I think. I take issue where one person (the woman) has opportunity to make decisions concerning another (the man) with no required input by that other. You value the child, I value the unwilling father.

The mother ultimately would make the decision with the full knowledge so the responsibility for any repercussions falls on her.

However, what we now have is a situation where a child will be born and, in the terms you used, be 'behind the curve' (and I also acknowledge that the situation will change based on socio-economic levels).

Yeah, and that would be on the mother who decided to have it knowing the father would not be contributing.

To say the man, who contributed more or less half of the 'mistake' in conceiving the child, is exempt from taking responsibility for his actions when it will benefit the child's life purely because he does not wish to

He contributed to half the mistake and thus deserves half the options post conception as well. Him being trapped after conception is unbalanced.

[–]DraconicLore2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SlapMyCHOP2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DraconicLore2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Just a note here, I think there should be a duty of care owed where both people agreed to have it

I think we might also have differing views on where this consent comes from. In my mind, there's a form of unspoken 'consent', in a bit of a different sense, from that first moment when the risk is accepted in sexual intercourse. I said it a little earlier but to reiterate, there's acknowledgement of the usual risks of pregnancy when sex occurs, as we all know that there's a chance of preventative measures failing, we mostly accept that the risk is low enough to go through with the act anyway, or have some agreement with the partner beforehand. I'll just add on here that when there's deliberate manipulation on behalf of one of the partner's the factors here change considerably, for example tampering/lying about birth control and then using this as a tool, and those cases need to be handled separately as we have an entirely different situation.

I am advocating for informed decision making allowing men to decide post conception in a "one time only" type fashion.

I'll also say here that I do believe this is how these sorts of things should play out; a discussion on the issue and then a mutually beneficial/agreed upon situation going forward, and so I largely agree here. But when this doesn't occur and the child is kept, given that the father is capable of providing funds, they should assist even if contact is not maintained. This does present a power imbalance, however in order to obtain a relatively 'just' outcome I'm not convinced that this is avoidable.

Appreciate the amicable discussion on a typically emotionally charged topic.

Likewise, it's really important that people with differing views on pretty important contemporary topics can discuss this stuff without letting emotions get in the way too heavily.

[–]Arnoux0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]SlapMyCHOP3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Where's the woman's option to have sex that results in a pregnancy and have to take no further action to avoid an infant?

There isn't. And Im not saying it would require no action by the man. It would have to be a legal process to financially abort.

Where's the equal option for women to not have an abortion but still escape financial responsibility for a child thay carries half their DNA?

The existence of an option for women to abort IS their option.

You are arguing for 100% equality when the biology doesn't support it. I am arguing that there needs to be SOME ability for a man to control his life after conception. Women have MANY. options. Men deserve ONE.

Where's the equal option that allows women to choose to put 100% of the financial responsibility for a child on the other parent?

Where a man wants to keep it and she doesn't, she can carry to term and then financially abort herself. I see no issues with that.

[–]ItsMinnieYall0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]IMNOTMATT2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I believe you're missing the main point I'm making, woman wouldn't be forced into an abortion, but the guy made it clear he would not want a part of continuing a pregnancy. Plan b situation. There are multiple methods of stopping a pregnancy after conception (hours to months later).

Caring for a human life should require more thought then 'i wanna orgasm' (both male and female at 50/50 responsibility at this stage) Why does sole power of the situation revert to one party after orgasm?

If the woman chooses to not proceed with ending the long term commitment that came out of a short term decision, the woman can proceed as normal, but why would she expect any financial compensation after the male has made it clear that he didn't want any long term commitment from a short term decision?

Male should be fully financially responsible in resolving situation, exact same in reverse if the female wants to abort and the male chooses to keep, male shouldn't pay for the abortion. Takes 2 to fuck.

In saying all this, this is all hypothetical bullshit that would have needed to be established well before now to even be considered normal and not just generate outrage. Equality regarding this subject is extremely difficult

[–]Arnoux1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Arnoux-1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

male has made it clear that he didn't want any long term commitment from a short term decision?

People kill others in 30 seconds out of rage. So they should not be responsible for killing because the decision happened quickly becuase of rage and adrenaline? I don’t agree with that, people should control themselves.

Making a baby is not a 30 sec act. It involves flirting with the girl, logistics of finding a place and the sex is usually longer than 30 secs. It is not a short decision.

You are considering a small part and not the full picture.

Abortion is not an easy task. Not mentally not phisically and can even make the woman infertile. The male have a decision when they start having sex. That is last step when they can decide and you have to accept that.

Another issue is who will finance the kid? Should a tax payer who only jerk off to porn because he does not want kids should support the endless amount of kids whose father clearly stated that they don’t want to support it’s own kid? Is not it ridicolous?

Also woman usually can’t support fully their own kid because it is hard to work when you are pregnant, it is hard to take care of kid when you are working etc. Money is needed usually and who should pay for it? The kid’s own father or other tax payers?

Also that would lead to less women willing to have kids if they can’t get any support at all from the sperm donor. In Europe we are already struggling with low fertility. Why would we want to lower it even more?

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Its more the fact men are veholden to the womens choice , and 50 % responsible.

Because of biology. If men carried the child then they'd have the same option. There's nothing there that wouldn't be changed if biology were different.

Imagine having another person get to make choices that you are responsible for.

Imagine having to carry a child for nine months if you want to have a kid while guys just have to have sex once. Not fair, right? Imagine having to go through an abortion if you don't want the kid while the guy just has to say "nah, I don't want it." You going to fix that too or just the stuff that gives you an advantage?

It's biology. Trying to make it fair is nonsensical. The only reason you think it makes sense now is because you don't want to be responsible for your choices.

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You mention both abortion and pregnancy not being fun and both having mental trauma. Couple of questions for you.

What about the physical and mental trauma a man receives from having to work more hours to pay his child support and maintain his lifestyle?

My second question is if it both sucks to have an abortion and go through with the pregnancy, isn’t the woman making the choice that one of these options may happen by choosing to have sex? People like to say things like “if a man didn’t want a child he shouldn’t have had sex”. Why can’t the same be said about women? “If you didn’t want to choose between having a baby or aborting it, you shouldn’t have had sex”. She can make the decision not to have sex instead of having sex and having all the power on what happens next while he has zero power.

One more question, do you have any thoughts on reasonable options for men or do you think that men are basically just 100% fucked with no options?

[–]errorsniper-1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Then dont have sex dude.

I have been married for 12 years and have had sex ranging from at minimum of once a day for the first few years of our marriage to 1-3 times a week where we are now. Literally thousands of times. I always wear a condom. No kids. Most of my friends are sexually active they always wear condoms no kids.

Your talking about lottery levels of unlucky, getting hit by lightning more than once levels of unlucky, getting hit by a meteor levels of unlucky. Yeah "technically" it has happened and it will happen again, no debate. But its a piss poor excuse to try and set up some boo hoo story for men "not having sexual freedom" because 1 in every x hundred million times you have sex a condom might be faulty.

If you think the odds of a faulty condom mean that men dont have sexual freedom because of the risk of a one in untold millions is too great. You better also never leave the house because you are by orders of magnitude more likely to die in hundreds of different ways than the chances of condom failing.

Do you not have the freedom for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because you might get in a car crash, a mugging gone wrong, having an airplane crash land on you, random shooting, targeted murder or any other of a myriad of ways that could kill you and are factors more likely than a condom failing? Of course not thats an absurd stance to take and all of those are many times more likely to happen than a condom failing.

You will never get a woman pregnant no matter how many times you have sex if you wear a properly fitting condom.

Men have sexual freedom.

Its called a condom.

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The kid is the most innocent party in this scenario. What about them? Your actions still have consequences, even if they were mighty dumb actions.

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[–]Striking__Purpose1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

If you want a kid and then you dip you should pay child support, but if you knockup your teenage girlfriend because you're stupid you shouldn't be forced to pay for a child for the next 18 years.

The father wouldn’t have to have any involvement in the kid’s life – though I think that’s a repugnant choice – but we were only talking about child support.

Child support is not a mechanism to punish the father for making a poor choice – as the person I’m quoting suggested. Nor is the absence of child support absolution. If you bring a child into the world and you don’t adopt it out, then you have an obligation to support it.

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So in theory you "knock a bitch up" then you give away parental rights because you don't want to deal with the life you've brought to this world means in your eyes he shouldn't have to? I personally was raised by a single mother and you obviously don't seem aware how expensive a kid is and when you're on your own it's as I'm sure you can see pretty difficult. The only way for me to believe your not mentally challenged is for me to believe you have a baby mama and don't want to pay so your annoyed you didn't wear a condom and now your trying to escape your mistake yet your still bound to the kid in someway. I honestly haven't found someone as stupid as you on Reddit in a VERY long time. Any response to this comment won't be read because I honestly don't feel like arguing with an idiot or even care enough to deal with someone as sad as you.

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You're getting hammered into downvote-hell, but you're not far.

I went through a year long custody battle after having my son for over 5 years full time. 6 years prior to that it was 50/50.

After faking going into a hospital in another state, filing false documents to the fact, and testifying to the same, I finally got a court order for her medical records and was able to show the court her drug habit. Instead of going to a hospital like she told the court, she went into rehab. Then lied about it and submitted false documents at 2 additional court dates. She has a felony arrest warrant for 2 counts of perjury and 2 counts of falsifying documentation.

The judge gave us 62/38 split with allowing me to randomly drug test her up to 4 times per year, once every 3 months.

Court ordered her to pay me $50/mo. I made about the same amount she made at the time, she quit her job and now lives off the state. If I were to go back to court, I would end up owing her money and our son lives with me during the school years.

It's good to hear a dad get some justice in this world.

[–]Smearysword8661 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]beaverkc 260 points261 points262 points 6 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (22 children) | Copy Link

Shameful when this happen. The kid really loses out because of that.

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[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Doesn't really matter. I pay child support and don't expect it all to go directly on my kid.

Probably has an effect on quality of life overall, however, unless a parent is intentionally trying to be vindictive toward the other parent.

[–]Nitromind5 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MrFr0stycave 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

I pay child support. I don't consider it dirty money. We just have a voluntary agreement between us regarding how much I pay my kid's mom.

I make A LOT more money than my kid's mom does, but that means I also work a lot and focus on my business.

She focuses on being a parent and a good home keeper and role model. I support her however I can.

[–]MrFr0stycave 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

Why not? The courts seem to disagree.

[–]MrFr0stycave 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

If I, making as much money as I do, decided not to pay my kid's mom and they had to suffer because of it, I surely hope they would take me to court.

[–]MrFr0stycave 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

My child would lose out SIGNIFICANTLY if it wasn't for child support. Until we get UBI or something in place, if someone involved in making a child has the financial means to help support them, they should.

[–]MrFr0stycave1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]sweetpotatuh1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

The kids are all under his roof idiot. The dad, who is taking care of them, ends up with more in his pocket.

[–]thefuckouttaherelol1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

That wasn't clear in the post. Based on the upvotes, I'm not the only one who interpreted the comment the way I did.

This thread is about child support.

If the kids were all under his roof, why would she get child support?

I suspect you are wrong, but that the dad had *other* kids under his roof. Ex: Possibly shared custody with one or more children, and then children of his own from another relationship.

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It's kinda weird that they call it child support which it has nothing to do with supporting a child in any way, shape or form. No child needs almost $2,000 a month to survive. It's just a punishment against one of the parents really more than anything. Child support should never be "based on income" for any reason except greed.

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For future reference I have a good source for your claim.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/lawreview/articles/volume152/issue6/London152U.Pa.L.Rev.1957(2004).pdf

To quote the article:

S.F. also contends that he did not have consensual intercourse with T.M. and that he was a victim of a sexual assault by T.M. . . . We note that S.F. does not contest that he is the biological father of T.M.’s child. A father has both a legal and moral duty to support his minor children.

1 Victims have rights. Here, the victim also has responsibilities. A 34-year-old woman seduces a 15-year-old boy and becomes pregnant. She gives birth to a daughter and thereafter applies for Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Is the child’s father obligated to pay child support even though he is a victim of statutory rape?

2 So long as a man engages in an intimate sexual act resulting in his depositing of his sperm with a woman who then becomes pregnant, he is liable for child support.

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It's actually pretty common. The reason most guys get fucked is that either the relationship ends before the kid is born or the kids go with mom while the divorce is pending. Some guys also fall for the bs where the wife says she wants to make things work but needs to some time apart so she's going to stay with her parents in another state for a bit. She then files for divorce and the guy is fucked because all proceedings are out of state and his kids are now residents of another state. The long and short is most courts choose continuity for the kids so generally whatever parent the kid is living with at the time the case is heard will get majority timeshare.

Despite being in 2020 courts also do little to leverage technology so most people get fucked over waiting to get in front of a judge or magistrate. I know someone who had to do an emergency pickup of her kids but because her exhusband had a good lawyer she had to keep paying child support. Even after a year she wasn't able to get a hearing and the only reason child support stopped was she changed jobs.

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When my parents got divorced my dad was earning more than my mum, and seeing as both me and my brother were living with my mum at the time my dad was paying quite a lot of child support. Over the next couple years for various reasons I moved in with my dad, and my dad unfortunately got laid off (post 2008). He was happy(ish) to keep paying seeing as my brother was living with my mum still and he wanted to make sure he was alright, even though it was a lot more than he could reasonably afford (he was going on the assumption he would get employment soon enough). Then one day my mum got greedy, informed him she would be chasing more payments, and less than a week later my dad got a letter through from the child support agency demanding he pay even more than the already high amount. Given I would never visit my mum, she was still working earning a decent wage, and my brother would sometimes spend the night at my dads, there was no way the demand made sense and unsurprisingly when we looked into it, my mum had blatantly lied on the claim form, saying I would still spend "the majority" of my time at hers, my brother would never visit my dad, and she neglected to tell the CSA my dad was unemployed. My dad would've probably been happy to keep paying right up until he lost his house, but for some reason my mum had to stir shit, so he of course told the CSA the situation, with proof of unemployment and letting them know I don't even speak to my mum. Unsurprisingly, it ended up she had to start paying him, not as much as he was paying before, but still. I'm still not exactly sure why she did when she knew she would get screwed. Given my brother cut off all contact with me and my dad due to us supposedly being money grabbing benefit hogs, I wouldn't be surprised if she did it on purpose so she could blame their money troubles on my dad (my mum is terrible with money and my brother was young at the time).

[–]AntRadio 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]thetruemask1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Women are all for child support.....until they're the one paying it.

[–]alpha_28-14 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]thetruemask9 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Comment full of flawed logic

if I could afford

Big point right there majority of people can't afford it.

even if that money doesn’t all go to my sons..

Another point most money given doesn't actually go to the kids. It's just compensating the parent. Most people o have known to collect child support spend stupidly. Clearly with such wasteful spending you don't need child support money.

It called CHILD SUPPORT not keep a parent happy support.

You hypothetically might be happy paying to keep another parent happy most aren't happy to be swindled out of their fair earnings.

I highly doubt you would be happy being forced to pay any amount to anyone or your ex.

If you really think giving people happiness money that doesn't help your kids is a fair cost. Then go give your ex 1500$ a month starting today.

Because that's what would be happening as child support. so might as pay it right now willingly out of the kindness of your good heart if you're so for it.

I'll wait to see you post a receipt for this month's 1500$

If not your full of shit

[–]alpha_28-9 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Child support is usually based on income. Sooooooo I could afford what they’re asking if they took a gander. If my ex asked me for extra for clothes... or medical expenses... extra curriculars etc is be happy to pay within my means.

All my exes child support goes to my sons and what they need. Any left over goes into a bank account they each have.

Raising 2 little boys on my own is fucking hard work. I can’t work because I can’t afford to put them in daycare and child support is ALL that cunt pays. He reckons he has 2 bank accounts with 1500 in it for me “so I can live comfortably” yet can’t even make a decent effort to be involved with his kids so if he has that money he can fuckin cram it. My mental health is fucked. My identity is 24/7 slave to my children who, as they age, get more full on in terms of attitude and energy levels. It’s ridiculous they’re also highly destructive. Parenting imo is harder work than having a fucking job. If my ex ever needed extra money for something they wanted because i was working and they were not because they were busy raising the kids I helped make I would be happy to pay.

My ex doesn’t even give me $1500 a month. He only pays $500 a month (cause you an illiterate fuck) (yet makes over $1000 a week and lives at home so he pays no rent) so why the fuck would I be giving him that money when he a) doesn’t even help look after the kids at all hell he can’t even take time out of his busy child free life to even ask how they’re going b) I don’t fucking work. Which means my child support wouldn’t be $1500 a month. So nice try with “flawed” logic. You’ve just replied a bunch of “what if’s” and why don’t YOU pay that and see how YOU go as an argument.

A happy parent raises happy kids. Your response is garbage. Jog on.

[–]thetruemask7 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What a hypocritical comment.

If my ex asked me for extra for clothes... or medical expenses... extra curriculars etc is be happy to pay within my means.

So again you so you wouldn't give away thousands. And you okay with giving what you can which isn't how it works. You forced to give what is demanded of you. So in essence your not okay with being forced to give away income but have no problem receiving it. You also go on to say your ex gives half his income? What?

Which is not only ridiculous if true is also non-sense because I have never heard of anyone having to give Half their income. It is supposed to be income based. But half your earning is not fair by any means.

A person living off of minimum wage has hardly any disposable income. Losing even 100-200$ a month is a huge hit.

why don’t YOU pay that and see how YOU go as an argument.

🙄 Because I'm not the one who said giving parents money as a happiness bonus was a good thing and then turn around and wouldn't do it themselves. Pure ignorance. The hypocrisy..

My identity is 24/7 slave

No. Slaves are FORCED TO WORK. A man who didn't want kids and was forced to be a parent and forced to pay is a slave.

A woman choosing to get pregnant then choosing on her own to have kids and then having to take care of the kids she chose to have is not, even by the furthest stretch of the imagination slavery.

[–]alpha_28-5 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Mate You dumb or what??? Holy shit. I get $500 a month for 2 children when that fuckhead works 40 hours a week and gets paid $40 an hour hmmm let’s see 40x40 is $1600 a week tax is probably $150. Whoops I over shot that. Yea I think he can afford to pay more than $500 a month. When you live at home, don’t pay rent and decided when our sons where 18 months old that being a parent was “too hard” and ran..

And yes, slavery is exactly how I would put it because lord knows I don’t get paid, i don’t get sick days I may have wanted kids and so did my ex but I certainly didn’t sign up to raise them alone.

I’m talking about extra money for the kids re medical, clothes etc. I’m not paying for my exes fucking lavish lifestyle. But if he ever needed help I would be willing to give which is somehow beyond your fucking selfish fucking comprehension.

If for whatever reason the relationship didn’t work out I would still make those kids my priority. Minimum wage is a different story. And my original comment was what I WOULD DO not that it be forced into anyone else. So shut the fuck up and stop trying to bring minimum wage and forcing child support on people into the argument because I don’t care about other people. I just said what I would do in the situation. HURRRDURRRRRR.

[–]thetruemask2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Wow the more you talk the less sense you make....

What are you talking about you keep changing your story.. your last comment said "my ex only makes 1000$ and I get 500$" which is half his income. Are you able to keep up so far?

Now your saying he makes 40$ a hour, which I doubt. Also anyone making 40$ a hour pays waaaaaaaay more than 500$ a month for 2 kids.

Someone making 40$ a hour would have pay over 500$ for 1 kid. For 2 probably a 1000$+

40x40 is $1600 a week tax is probably $150. Whoops I over shot that.

What? Tax on 1600$ is way more than 150$ Jesus. I can't guess whether your a child or have the IQ of one...... Or if everything your saying is complete BS.

Whatever keep on your non-sense I'm not reading or responding anymore.

HURRRDURRRRRR

Very intelligent closer, I feel sorry someone has to call you their parent.... Yeesh.

I don’t care about other people.

Clearly.

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At least in my jurisdiction, the law covers situations where one parent is underemployed or unemployed for the purposes of avoiding child support, imputes their income, and still makes them pay.

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[–]De-Hond1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

1750? Bloody hell, her salary must be at least double or maybe triple that.

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[–]De-Hond1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like plenty to me. What education level would you need in the states to reach that? What are the expenses?

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[–]De-Hond1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

What do your regular expenses look like? €63000 is a very good income here for one person.

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God damn $1750 a month is a lot

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This might look like some sort of win, but this is indentured servitude supposedly protected against by the 13th Amendment.

Now before people flip, there are a lot of "buts" here.

If she was allowed to have elective abortion, then she has no leg to stand on.

If she was not allowed to have an abortion, then yeah, the parents should be held responsible, especially the ones who say "fuck you" to the ones trying to raise their children.

Inversely, unwilling fathers should never be forced to pay child support in states where elective abortions are legal.

Likewise men should have to help bear the responsibility of their decisions if abortion is not legal.

I mean, unless states get real cool about protecting men's rights all of a sudden and prosecute women who lie about and sabotage birth control. That would be real equality.

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Comments

WRONG

WEAR A GODDAMNED CONDOM ISSUE SOLVED

Nice Leaderboard

Title	Child support
Author	moonunit42
Upvotes	33734
Comments	925
Date	May 23, 2020 11:25 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/gpezgy/child_support/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/child-support.1068651 https://theredarchive.com/post/1068651