Guys, we need to talk about this. It's time for some hard reflection.

Wavedasher · 2011-12-15T05:11:54+00:00

Very reasonable points, and a lot of good insights there. I feel though there's probably a lot of people on seddit (or who are interested in learning about PUA in general) who are here just to learn how to interact with girls in general beyond a friend-zone manner. I'm one of them. It's not as if I'm just trying to learn how to get a girl in bed; heck, the idea of sex frankly still scares me. I'm just trying to learn how demonstrate interest to a girl and maybe take a girl on a few nice dates.

queenw_hipstur · 2011-12-15T03:49:58+00:00

I think the underlying theme of your post is honesty. I used to roll girls by a phrase I learned at a very young age that I think a lot of wannabe PUAs use which is "trick, lie and deny". This may get you laid a lot in the short run, but women are very perceptive and catch on quickly. If you are straightforward and honest with a woman, she will usually be even more into it than before. I have no problem telling a girl that all im looking for is something physical. You'd be surprised how many want the exact same thing. A lot of really beautiful women are sick of guys falling in love with them over nothing. Tell them you want sex. You'll probably get it. Also, on a gayer note, you sound like a good man. Cheers mate.

Redbeard · 2011-12-15T05:31:19+00:00

I agree with the OP, and I love what he wrote. I'd like to concentrate on one point and demonstrate how NOT LYING to a girl is more likely to get you what you want.

Consider a situation that most of us have been to: You're on a date with a girl you are attracted to, but you don't want anything more than a sexual relationship with her -- either because you don't want anything more with her or in general.

Do you disclose this to her on the first date? I would, and I'll tell you why...

Not only because it is a requirement of the golden rule, but also because IT IS MORE LIKELY TO GET YOU LAID ON THE FIRST DATE.

It comes down to that if you are clear about not wanting a relationship, the girl has no incentive to try and appear more desirable as relationship material by delaying sex until the 3rd date. Instead, she can just respond to the attraction you are building with her and sleep with you.

RcskaSedd · 2011-12-15T06:02:32+00:00

thank you thank you thank you thank you. I really needed. I can say with all this seduction stuff, reading so much, taking so much action, and not taking too much risk. I have gotten myself into a deep shit with women, idk if my mind set was treating women like pieces of meet, the choices that I've made I'm not really happy about, I've played games with women, lead women on, just completely ignored women that i really liked but reject me, gave mixed messages to women, pissed them off, ect. I can say that i am a big asshole, fucking huge asshole, but i know my mistakes, i take responsibility for them. This is what i really needed. thank you.

Zero36 · 2011-12-15T09:12:43+00:00

The whole reason I even got into seddit was because from the sidebar I was an AFC. I realized the few girls that I've fallen for in life were the ones that gave me attention and a lot of it. Then I fell into this death-loop of falling for girls who were not that all really attracted to me because I personally became too attached and deseperate hence the constant friend zoning. Seddit has helped me take a look at myself and realize that instead of complaining and brooding, I need to take steps to improve myself and my innergame to be that confident strong and interesting man that women are attracted towards.

You pretty much hit on the core of what I think where seddit truely shines, becoming a better ME. Above all that PUA jazz and what not, improving theyself is the biggest steps towards being alpha that I've taken, and in the few short weeks ive been here I have seen it really affect me personally big time and I have seen myself improve and I have seen the advice WORK! So props to you.

iznou · 2011-12-15T17:41:40+00:00

TOP TEN THINGS KILLING THE SEDUCTION COMMUNITY

A lack of actual players who are getting laid
Too many keyboard jockeys who would rather talk about getting laid than get laid
Wannabe's, tryhards, forever betas. Either man up or go full omega. "Do or do not, there is no try" - Yoda
Pickup artist "gurus"
Guys who are so successful at pickup that they have no respect for women and give them the ol' pump and dump.

And I'm being generous here, OP. Because usually those "assholes" who move on to the next women after they score are in reality, NOT the kind of men who are in the seduction community. So they're not even a problem the seduction community can actually address until it gets to work on the first three points (i.e. getting your motherfucking dick wet).

Furthermore, when a woman experiences the emotional rollercoaster of getting pumped and dumped by an alpha male, they are usually on the rebound and ready for the kind of love your average sedditor is willing to give. So I'm not sure these assholes are even a problem. They make us look good!

ge99 · 2011-12-15T16:17:43+00:00

This has been the mantra of seddit for a while. Not sure why you felt this needed to be posted.

2011-12-15T08:45:19+00:00

Your point is well taken, but the thing is, I don't know if "leading on" happens much with one nighters. If you meet the girl in a bar, chat her up, kino, makeout, take her home, sleep with her...I don't see any leading her on there. It should be pretty clear to her that this is a sexual thing. Unless you say something like "I could really see something happening between us" or whatever. But I've never said anything like that.

2011-12-15T11:22:43+00:00

A good write-up.

I have more than a few friends and buddies, but there is just ONE guy I think I would introduce my sister to, without regretting it afterwards.

As for the "this is about you" bit - I would love to be able to just say to a girl, in plain, honest and respectful manner, that I would like to take her with me, but this does not work this way unfortunately. There are girls that would probably take that positively but those tend to be NOT the girls you would like to hang out/sleep with. The girls you would like to hang out/sleep with, tend NOT to take this kind of attitude positively. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something fundamental.

I'm married, have four kids, was raised in a predominantly female environment, and never had problems communicating with women. Not in the US.

1independentmale · 2011-12-15T15:25:40+00:00

I have a question.

I'm just getting back into the saddle in my early thirties after a long marriage and I'm finding it oh-so-easy to pick up women. Hell, half the time they approach me. My game is shit but I look decent, dress nice and ooze confidence.

Here's the deal: All I want right now are FWB arrangements. I'm happy and content in my life and I neither need nor want a girlfriend up in my business all the time. Frankly, at this point in my life an exclusive relationship is nothing more than an obligation.

So, the question: Am I obligated to disclose this before sleeping with someone I just met in a club? If so, just how the hell does one bring this up? Talk about a mood killer.

I'm 100% sensitive to the points you've made here. "Hit it & quit it" isn't my style. It's not fair to the women in my life and I'd personally think myself a total asshole if that's how I rolled. When I take a lady home, not only do I want her to stay the night, I want to take her out for a nice breakfast the next morning. I want her number and I want to call her again. What I don't want to do is lead her on: She's not the only woman in my life and she never will be.

I like to think in these modern times this won't be an issue, that it should go without being said. I don't know yet - I've had to turn down several f-closes because my divorce isn't final and my wife is still living in my house (I'm open and honest about this to the women I meet). It just seems awfully presumptive for a woman to assume she's the only one I'm seeing. I'd think this should be clear without having to be said, but I know it's going to make for awkward situations because I do intend to have ongoing friendships with these ladies and it will only be a matter of time before I find myself at a club or private party where multiple FWBs are present. Feelings may be hurt and I'd like to avoid that if possible, without being sneaky or dishonest with anyone.

Perhaps this goes on AskSeddit, and I may cross-post it there later, but since it's directly relevant to this discussion I thought I'd throw it out here for you all to chew on.

decimetar · 2011-12-15T14:44:56+00:00

I love you too brother.

sillymallard · 2011-12-15T04:02:52+00:00

Here's where this starts to be a rant. We have a cancer. It's killing us slowly. We need to burn this tumor out, gentlemen, and the effort starts with YOU.

I like your post, but I completely disagree with you. The mantra of the early PUA community went something like: "Women nowadays want everything, they want to be treated like princesses and offer nothing in return. They won't give us the time of day, so what are we going to do about it? We're going to fuck them!" That's much different from most of the posts on seddit today.

I believe that dark side of PUA still exists, but has been waning, not growing like a cancer, for quite sometime now. If anything, most new PUA advice focuses on how to be a better man and make everyone better off, which is good. However, let's not be fools and think that this is the only way to get laid. You can get laid if you are a broke, pathetic, lying scumbag, MUCH more than by being a nice guy. You can get laid by putting on a fake PUA persona complete with an avatar game name and get laid. Why is it that both gentlemen following the golden rule and slimy jerks who completely disregard it can both get laid like rockstars? People put a lot of effort into figuring this out, and we shouldn't forget that there is a lot to learn from jerks, even if it's not good to be one.

That being said, I like your post, because I do believe the dark side of PUA is a dead end. You make your life about fucking girls any which way possible, and lose yourself in it. I believe the way to get put on the trajectory to ever-increasing happiness is by following your advice and many others who post inspirational field reports.

2011-12-15T04:02:15+00:00

Good post and has a lot of good nuggets of information. It's very important to value yourself more, and I feel if you have a lot of self-confidence and interact in a fun way having sex, and it pleases me greatly when people make the mental transition from "How do I win her over?" to "We're having fun."

From what I've read and have seen in life is that women do fantasize about whirlwind nights of passion. Having an ONS is not negative or misogynistic in my book, but I do agree leading women on and making them think there's going to be more is a bad thing -- luckily I've yet to see any of the lads on here intentionally do that.

CalmSpider · 2011-12-15T17:19:20+00:00

I really like this post, but I feel that not everyone on this board is at a level where he can really understand it. I'd like to take a moment to address the newbies who are looking at your post and wondering how to apply "Leave her better than you found her" when they don't even know how to avoid getting blown out a lot of the time. This is the best time to start applying the advice, and I'll explain how.

When I started out learning, I had very little experience with women. My first approaches were failures, as is usually the case with a newbie. I had so many new concepts floating around in my head, and very little context telling me what to apply when. How would I "leave her better than I found her" when I was struggling with "Three seconds to approach?" At this stage, I was learning how to overcome my approach anxiety and avoid getting blown out. A "successful" approach was one where I opened and transitioned, even if I got blown out right after that.

After learning the basics of not getting blown out (avoiding certain topics, postures, and gestures), I learned how to attract women. I learned how to tell stories, crack jokes, and play games with the girls to gain their interest, trust, and respect. I would get indicators of interest when I performed well and indicators of disinterest when I performed poorly. This learning process was difficult, too. Learning how to escalate attraction and contact was difficult. Again, I had so many concepts floating around in my head like "push the escalation further than I'm comfortable with so that I learn where the boundaries are" but also "leave her better than I found her."

So now we reach the point in the story where I explain how to apply the advice. You don't apply "Leave her better than you found her" in the moment where you are interacting with a woman. When you're just trying to remember how to stand and what to say, you have no use for such ethical principles.

At this stage, you apply the principle to what you choose to learn and practice. Learn to be a discerning reader. When you read PUA advice, ask yourself some important, critical questions about what you're reading. Ask yourself if the advice you are reading, when properly applied, will result in your leaving a woman better than you found her. Ask yourself if the advice you're reading will, when properly applied, allow you to be honest. Ask yourself if what you're learning will help you maintain a network of friends long term without drama. Ask yourself if applying what you are learning will negatively affect other areas of your life, such as treasured friendships and family relationships.

Do not blindly trust authoritative sounding advice. Not everyone has the same motivations as you, even at the top level of PUA mastery. Instead, choose to practice the components of game that you believe will genuinely make you a better person. Don't just learn how to demonstrate value. Learn how to have value. When the text says "Demonstrate that you are a leader of men," look at it as a trait to take on. Learn how to lead. When the text says "Demonstrate that you are a protector of loved ones," really strive to look out for the people close to you. When your friends and family are in need, help them. Don't just pretend with DHV stories. Don't work so hard combing your past for good DHV material. One or two DHV stories is plenty when you're starting out. Strive to make new DHV stories every day.

"Leave her better than you found her" is not a rule or a law. It's an ideal. Think about it: The man who leaves women better than he finds them is going to be very successful with women. When we learn PUA skills, we are learning how to apply this broad advice. It takes a lot of experience before broad advice is useful in the field. In the mean time, think of broad rules like "Leave her better" as guidelines for what to practice and what to avoid practicing.

bobleplask · 2011-12-15T11:51:47+00:00

I like the essence of your post. Good heart and intentions.

I short remark on this:

Don't drag this community into the depths of misogynistic sleazy shame it's currently headed for.

It's already quite tainted by nature. It's called seduction and it's never really about seduction as it is self-improvement. But who goes to /r/selfimprovement when they have trouble getting laid?

And that's how people find this community... To get laid. So you get all these new people, learning some tricks and taint the shit out of the name (puas, seduction community, whatever you want to call it). This even gets some recruits to the community. And many see quickly that they don't want to be part of some misogynistic fake-it-till-you-make-it lifestyle. And some go deeper and see a glimpse of what things are really about.

And I think it's always been like that really.

helloMrWest · 2011-12-15T17:26:28+00:00

Not every girl wants a relationship.

Nor is it disrespectful to have a one night stand.

I know where you're coming from and the community needs this kind of input, but it's not 100% by any means. Girls want to have this kind of fun as much if not more than we do.

annamal · 2011-12-15T21:54:30+00:00

As a woman: thank you.

As a redditor: "Fuck the Sex." I loled...oxymoron...

scrubzor · 2011-12-15T04:31:16+00:00

not exactly sure what this rant is all about... I don't think anyone here is coming at this with malicious intent.

arpakolla · 2011-12-15T07:47:25+00:00

Who the hell talks like that? Be honest to yourself first, bro. Picking up chicks is not something epic. This isn't about anyone else other than yourself, and that's good. Just enjoy your life.

ddxxdd · 2011-12-15T03:24:50+00:00

I'm gonna try to learn to pick up women first.

Althor86 · 2011-12-15T07:56:11+00:00

I wish I had more upvotes to give.

philosarapter · 2011-12-15T15:20:42+00:00

IMO the community is already a lot more responsible than it used to be.

Don't bone girls that are totally fucking wasted, don't outright lie about wanting a relationship when you don't, etc.

Other than that, we don't owe them anything. They're playing by a set of rules too. We want casual sex and they want relationships, social status, and (in some cases) money. Neither of these sets of desires is better or worse than the other and neither party needs to apologize. Everyone plays the game.

If you're going to smash some chick in a ONS, you do NOT owe it to them to proactively announce you're not interested in a relationship. If they ASK, you shouldn't lie, but you sure as shit don't need to advertise what you're doing if it doesn't otherwise come up.

Also, Seddit isn't a general self-improvement board. It isn't about waking up and feeling like a better person, it's about getting chicks to sleep with you. I'm all about self improvement and despite my creepster username I'm honest with girls and the girls I've banged are happy to see me when I run into them. I wake up every day feeling like a champion, but this "be the best guy you can be" shit on Seddit is off-topic.

Also, referring to some girl as "HB7" instead of "Jane Derpsberg" in an FR isn't objectifying, it's efficient conversationally and anonymous by design. I think the online seduction lingo is pretty humane, we COULD all be posting texted images of girls' vaginas on here with their home addresses, but no one does because we're not really assholes, we just play assholes in bars.

SemanticsLogistics · 2011-12-15T09:34:57+00:00

Out of curiosity, how old are you? This is written like it comes from experience, and I like what you have to say. I was just thinking today how I would love to hear an older man's opinion here since most of the posts are obviously from the 18-25 demographic that makes up most of reddit.

VoodooD2 · 2011-12-15T15:46:02+00:00

THANK YOU. The criticisms you mentioned are why I find it brutal to stop in here more than a few times a year.

sailon · 2011-12-15T17:31:28+00:00

Your mother, sisters, daughter, whatever. Imagine someone doing to them what you are doing to the ladies you are talking to. Would you be pleased with someone seducing your daughter, taking her home, leading her on, sleeping with her, and never talking to her again, and remembering her only as “HB6” on some invisible corner of the internet? What about your mother? The mentality of “I need to take these steps so I can sleep with this girl ASAP” is not only flawed, but it's unhealthy.<

Thank you! It is about a balance between desire and respect... everyone has desires and you can get what you want without granting the target respect, but remember that she a is a beautiful human who is appreciated by many and by right deserves your respect.. dont let yourself lose your conscience :]

WolfInTheField · 2011-12-15T18:40:36+00:00

I was prepared to leave a 'WTF Seddit, I fall off the grid, and this is what I return to?'-type of post, but I can forget that now. Good speech, OP.

Edit: Reread. In fact probably the most important speech on here in... Ever? This is the great unresolved issue of morality, right there.

DiscreteOpinion · 2011-12-15T19:01:19+00:00

So, uh... How old is your sister? ;)

But seriously - nice post. I try to push this kind of attitude every time I respond to an /r/relationship_advice or other help thread. It's good to know there are others out there pushing the positive message.

ymrhawk · 2011-12-15T23:11:24+00:00

“ALWAYS leave them better than you found them.”

I think ALWAYS is a dangerous word to use. I would agree that you should try to give some effort in leaving a good impression on people but ALWAYS is not possible. But this isn't event talking about a first impression, you are talking about leaving a good last impression which is even less likely because one has to ask why is it a last impression? If any person is going to invest themselves (emotionally) into you and then you end it, sour feelings are going to be there.

The guys who first learn game are more likely to jump into a relationship with the first girl they have success with as opposed to being pump and dumpers. Heck I think there is bigger problem with people in general staying with people and in relationships in general because they dont want to be the "bad guy". Well its too late at that point even if you had good intentions.

I'm just worried about guys going to the other extreme of worrying about what other people think at their own expense.

RedShirtedAss · 2011-12-16T03:42:31+00:00

There is no "Golden Rule" to Seduction. As a matter of fact, there aren't any "rules" to begin with. Seduction isn't like Physics, there aren't any solid concrete laws of nature that you can't disobey(ignoring the obvious legal overlap like assault). Seduction is a unique experience for every individual person. That's why I can't just emulate one of Mystery's approaches and expect the same results. The "rules" are just rules for those people's methods. That's why its called "The Mystery Method", because its his unique method. Everybody has a different style of game, and with that, different perspectives.

I'm not saying to treat a woman like shit, but implying that we should just have fun with ladies and not even care about sex is silly. We all care about sex, in fact without sex our species would die out. I think sex is the reason why the overwhelming majority of us subscribe to the teachings of seduction. Part of this is self improvement, and I totally agree that it is extremely important to realize this. But to say that this is the most important thing is wrong. Everybody has their own view of what the most important thing is. Sometimes, these things aren't even important. Some guys just wanna get laid or have a family and have kids, and they don't care about epiphanies. We all come from different backgrounds and walks of life, which shape the way we view the world. Nothing is wrong, just different. We should be able to tell others about our experiences and what works for us, and suggest that they might want to look at things another way if their way doesn't work. But there are no "rules" or "laws". The meaning of seduction is unique to all of us.

directrespect · 2011-12-15T07:21:43+00:00

Yeah, no. I didn't get into game to be the magical benevolent fixer of women, or to get sucked into LTRs where I give up access to the majority of my free time and take on all of another person's problems so I can have marginally more sex.

I got into game so I could go through college being 1. not weird and 2. able to get laid easily when I feel like it, on my own time, and not have it be a huge thing that gets in the way of actual stuff I have going on. Girls (and guys--myself included)my age are in no way mature enough to handle a long term relationship with anyone, and I'm just not going to subject myself to all of that pointless frustration.

crookers · 2011-12-15T07:18:34+00:00

Stop with all the negging, from what I've read 'negs' are pretty much designed to break confidence, that's pretty rapey.

philosarapter · 2011-12-15T19:24:42+00:00

Yeah but what if I hate women lol

rustoof · 2011-12-15T03:24:32+00:00

I prefer to subscribe to the "This is empirical knowledge/science and you are welcome to research it" school of thought.

Not the "this is gay self help bullshit" school of thought.

My morals, ethics and character have nothing to do with the facts of seduction anymore than they have to do with the facts of physics. The golden rule "leave them better than you found them" imo can not be a "rule" of seduction, since there is in fact no evidence for the necessity of its inclusion. Whereas "kino works" is in fact a RULE.

So in other words, please stop preaching. Those who use this information in a shameful way will do so regardless of some busybody on the internet. I don't go to nuclear physics lectures and talk about the golden rule of not making nuclear bombs. And i woudn't expect anyone to take me seriously if i did.

Particularly if i was making a post as a way of attempting to placate the people over at shitredditsays. Regardless of your opinion on that particular subreddit, i think everyone would call them extremists of the so called "gender war" and frankly extremists have no place in an academic setting.

Furthermore, since this topic clearly is posted in response to the "advice from a rapist thread" going on over there, linked from here then you should be ashamed of your self. Because if you are any sort of practical hands on gamer then you know damn well that there is a kernel of truth in that, you also know that frogma is not a terrible person, like they are saying over there, and you also should know as an adult that reasoning with extremists will not work.

You also should recognize that what we do here, no matter how watered down and sappy you make it, will ever be acceptable to theshitredditsays crowd, because to them seduction (i.e. convincing women that would otherwise not sleep with you to do so) is rape.

So i'll upvote you for rediquette and your time writing this, but i strongly dissaprove of your attempt to pander to extremists as well as infusing moral certainty where none exists, as well as harming the academic integrity of this institution by the attempted injection of emotion into reason.

And for the record, of course you should try to leave them better than you found them. Most of us get it. Those that don't won't.

2011-12-15T11:05:48+00:00

tou robots

WhiskeySeven · 2011-12-15T11:53:34+00:00

Well put, nothing's going to change though. It's asking too much of people to expect them to put in the extra effort when they don't NEED to, especially after they've accomplished their goal.

I'm not like that, but I can understand why some people are. It makes sense to call her a HB# or whatever because you're trying to give the play-by-play to someone reading the field report, but people honestly feel this way and I'm not too sure they understand why the community exists. It's the means to an end (comfort, ability with the opposite sex; self-confidence) not the end.

graffiti81 · 2011-12-15T12:26:13+00:00

I thought this was going to be about the blatant monetization of PUA.

Beyond the golden rule of pick up, I think you'd be safe just to go with the Golden Rule, do unto others, etc.

2011-12-15T15:19:09+00:00

It's really a question of priorities. If your top priority is to get laid as much as possible, and being a good person is less important than that, then you can get laid more often by sacrificing your principles. But in the long run, you'll hurt a lot of people and end up burnt out and hating yourself. You ought to think about that before you make the decision about what's more important rather than after.

Unfortunately, for those that understand, no explanation is necessary, and for those that don't, no explanation will suffice.

GoodForGreat · 2011-12-15T18:15:02+00:00

You been drinkin?

2011-12-16T04:52:20+00:00

When I first got into pickup, I was amazed at myself. Like you, I am a quick learner. Between that and a splash of luck, I quickly found myself surrounded by a number of women interested in me sexually. I realized that I really needed to sit down and decide what my philosophy and principles were, before I fucked up some wonderful woman's heart.

So I sat in the shower for an hour and a half thinking, and finally concluded that at the heart of things, my motto could be summarized by a simple phrase I saw used in Seddit all the time: give value. I aim to always be a value giver. To be so awesome and full of life that I will always make women - and people in general - happy to have met me and happy to spend time with me. So much awesome that it spills out around me and inspires everyone.

It's served me well, and it will serve all of you well too. Respecting women - with honesty, with truthworthiness, with kindness, with your words and your actions, with affection and love in all its forms - will make you a true alpha male.

Give. Value. Go forth and be more.

RutgerijeBamlul · 2012-01-05T00:29:17+00:00

Love you to bro!!

2011-12-15T14:45:16+00:00

A quick heads up, you've been linked to by r/SRS, a group of redditors who search reddit for posts they deem offensive, and then direct hostile traffic to that post. Not affiliated with any groups or causes.

zaferk · 2011-12-15T07:45:31+00:00

“ALWAYS leave them better than you found them.”

A bullshit rule for bullshit people.

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/leaving-her-better-than-you-found-her-not-likely/

When fellow members of this community come rolling in, seduce a girl, lead her on to think there's something more, and kick her to the curb after a one-night stand so they can move to the next piece of meat.

If a girl wants to be a slut for some bad boy alpha, indulge her. They should expect no better treatment.

Would you be pleased with someone seducing your daughter, taking her home, leading her on, sleeping with her, and never talking to her again, and remembering her only as “HB6” on some invisible corner of the internet?

My mother/sister/daughter do not indulge in one night stands.

BestofBob · 2011-12-15T13:53:43+00:00

This is absolute rubbish, todays western women have no respect for men and use every lie they can to get what they want. This includes using you or money, social climbing, physical protection and will then drop you like a sack of shit and NO ONE cry's foul play, only when men use them for sex, then its foul play. You cannot have sex with multiple women and leave them all better than you found them, someone will always get hurt. It was just a stupid quote from a good book but what is now outdated by an author who was writing a story not a documentary.

What is killing this community is crap like this and the worship of women, yes be friends with them and treat the best you can but don't forget why you are here and what they are here for like every master PUA does.

puaCurveBall · 2011-12-15T18:32:03+00:00

Preaching to the choir.

seriousmanda · 2011-12-15T20:15:25+00:00

As a female, If some dude just dropped the bullshit and said "I'm only sexually attracted to you." That would be relieving. I don't have to figure out whether the guy is date material, whether he's going to pursue me later if I'm only sexually attracted to him as well. It gives me an opportunity to step away from the mental games and just have a physically good time... even if it doesn't work that only means she skipped the bullshit, too. That being said I've had a boyfriend for a while and never really played the "game" but I just wanted to give you some female perspective on TheGamble's sentiment. Remember fellas, honesty is always the best policy for that sort of thing.

shivalry · 2011-12-15T21:49:56+00:00

Best and most important post I've seen here. Can we sticky this bitch? Motion to sticky this bitch.

DoFDcostheta · 2011-12-15T23:41:56+00:00

Thank you for this post. I'm more of a passive observer of seddit; but I've seen the trends that you pointed out and it was starting to worry me. The idea of seddit is beautiful, but it's frustrating that techniques like these are getting turned into manipulative tools rather than ways to improve social situations. I love ya, sedditors, and hope this helps keep the community strong.

arkitip · 2011-12-16T05:27:44+00:00

Good post thank you.

2011-12-15T16:48:11+00:00

Your coming off as someone on a pretty high horse there, buddy. Seduction about the science of being an effective pickup artist, as long we're not doing anything illegal you can save your morality bs for someplace else.

fragglemook · 2011-12-15T06:31:38+00:00

I always leave them better than I found them...smiling half unconscious with a red raw vajayjay.

zabonotiropitas · 2011-12-15T17:18:35+00:00

Got chills man.Will do!

MARSpu · 2011-12-15T20:32:42+00:00

Very good read. I'm planning on a short writeup like this soon, as well. I just can't figure out the best way to make it sound interesting.

Ruwanimo · 2011-12-15T20:33:54+00:00

First post I've ever read on Seddit and I'm so goddamn happy it is! Thanks dude, you're a fine gent. Have upvotes and real world karma too. This idea needs to catch on.

Title	Guys, we need to talk about this. It's time for some hard reflection.
Author	TheGamble
Upvotes	463
Comments	194
Date	December 15, 2011 2:41 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/nd8ok/guys_we_need_to_talk_about_this_its_time_for_some/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/guys-we-need-to-talk-about-this-its-time-for-some.1305992 https://theredarchive.com/post/1305992

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