LOOKS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD

BichonFriseLover · 2025-01-25T19:37:40+00:00

I can’t describe in words how intellectually dishonest it is to claim that looks don’t matter.

Either you are so indescribably ugly that you just take whatever you can get or you’re trying to convince yourself more than anything.

In the real world everyone I talk to understand looks matter a lot. People go to the gym, they try to dress nice, get haircuts, do their make-up etc. Most people do everything shy of surgeries and even then they’ve probably thought in passing about getting a nose job.

Alwaysnthered · 2025-01-25T17:48:27+00:00

Daily reminder on the "tier list" for looks for men:

1) raw looks (conventionally good looking features, height)

2) masuculinity (facial hair, rugged look, stockier/muscular builds)

You can get away with 1 only. if you don't have 1 you can somewhat getaway with 2 as it will appeal to some women (the hot ugly look)

if you can't get either one or two then you are f'd.

example: an average looking average height man who can't grow facial/body hair, has smoother skin and a baby ish face

JetproTC23 · 2025-01-29T05:45:28+00:00

In current age, men's ideal look (toned muscle, less than 15% body fat, jawline, HEIGHT) is at least 10-20 times harder to achieve than women's ideal look (average BMI, no qualms about height).

Hourglass figure, huge tits and ass are just preference for a few men. No one else puts any pressure on women about those.

Logos1789 · 2025-01-25T18:20:49+00:00

To those who downplay the importance of physical attractiveness…do you really read every dating profile, instead of only the ones who you’re attracted to?

Dry-Ad3452 · 2025-01-25T21:51:38+00:00

I don't EVER wanna hear "ugly women are treated worse than ugly men" ever again.

Never in a million fucking years would the reverse happen. Ever.

AutomaticMeaning3844 · 2025-01-29T17:47:38+00:00

you can't have a pretty face as a fat woman because the fat changes your face to be uglier

You can have a pretty face underneath the fat, but you can't have a pretty fae while you're fat

CompetitiveSugar6451 · 2025-01-30T10:42:18+00:00

There is this one chad guy at my gym. White; around 6 feet; square face; blue eyes; dark full hair and muscular with tanktop. Every time he walks around you see women turning their heads towards him and taking glances. When I walk behind him you see the women who are walking the opposite direction making direct eyecontact and some even smile at him.

I don’t get the notion that “women are shy or not obvious with their signals”. If you are a hot guy women will let you know you are hot. If you are unsure if you are hot or not to women because you don’t get many signals the answer is simple : you aren’t.

cardboard_pyramid · 2025-01-25T18:16:21+00:00

My female friends constantly gush about how much they love tall men (and only tall men).

This is fine, people have their preferences. One time they asked me why I don’t date, and one of the reasons I gave was that women typically don’t like short men. They immediately replied with “women don’t care about height.”

Before anyone accuses me, I didn’t say it in some bitter or self pitying manner, I just stated it matter of factly. I didn’t attack women’s preferences in anyway when I said it

BichonFriseLover · 2025-01-26T18:32:33+00:00

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Negative_Face6137 · 2025-01-28T04:46:22+00:00

I just figured out why people are confused about looks.

A study showed that the average person rates themselves a 7, meaning most people add +2 points to their own looks. This was both the case in men and women, as they separated the groups.

On top of that, I figured out lately that, all other things being equal, a 5 man hits a woman in the gut the same way a slightly chubby 4 woman would hit a man. So, even though a woman could say a guy was a 5, she would FEEL attraction to him like he was a 3.75. Personality, bodybuilding, grooming, and fame can raise this number a little bit, but all other things being equal, this is the magical formula.

Let's look at Jim and Pam. Jim is a 7, Pam is a 5. Jim thinks he's a 9, Pam thinks she's a 7. Pam feels like Jim is a 5.75, or maybe a 6.1, if you add personality and height. She thinks she's a good person for loving Jim in spite of his funny ears and "flaws." Womem watch the office and wonder where their Jim is. Irl, Jim would think he, a 9, was doing the 5 a favor by letting her touch him. This is typical pitfall for women.

Let's look at the 5 guy and the 5.5 woman. The 5 guy thinks he's a 7. Adjusted for inflation, he sees the 5.5 woman the way a woman would see a 6.75 man: therefore, a little homelier than Jim Halpert, to a woman's perspective. Almost sufficiently average cute. The 5 guy thinks he's as attractive as he perceives a 7 woman to be (add 1.25 for 8.25). The woman sees herself as a 7.5. She sees the guy as a 3.75: half her number. The average guy thinks he's giving her the "deal of a lifetime " with his commitment and sweeping her off her feet. The woman promptly nuclear rejects him and thinks he's crazy. She's also surrounded by plenty of men who think exactly the same as this guy, as well as 7s and 8s who think they're God's gift to women, trying to score. This is a typical pitfall for men.

Dating Profiles:

Guy says he's "looking for the Pam to his Jim." Guy is a 5 looking for a 5. He thinks he's a 7 looking for a 5, which in girl language is 6.25: ugly cuteish. He thinks he's a cool, reasonable guy for being OK with that, and doing her a favor by learning to make do with less. The problem is, the woman thinks she's a 7, and he feels to her like a 3.75. Logically, they should pair off, but she'll laugh and say, "Good luck finding your Pam!" as she swipes left. They both came in thinking they were above eachother.

Guy is a 7 saying he's "looking for the Pam to his Jim." He thinks he's a 9, and that this is the perfect line to attract ugly cute women to sex. He acts like he thinks he's a 7, so that women think he's being humble and will sleep with him. Of course he "knows he's a 9" and thinks he's a funny and clever 9 for tricking these hoes. The 5 thinks she's a 7, like Pam, who found a cute 5.75 guy (although she's intellectually aware he's a 7). Why should this go wrong?? I can't believe he ghosted me. 7 guy thinks women want sex the same as men and that the okayish girl just scored a 9/10, so she must feel great, so his job here is done. She'd have to be delusional to think a 9 like him would seriously date her, but she'll be fine.

Jim and Pam is a successful public fantasy.

The five man will see the 6 woman as cute but achievable, thinking he's a 7. The 6 woman will see herself as an 8, wondering why the "other" 8 isn't calling her back. The 8 man will see himself as a 10.

PPD_DailyPoster · 2025-01-26T17:07:40+00:00

Looks matter.

Early-Possibility367 · 2025-01-27T18:06:23+00:00

I can't believe some people think looks are more important than height. Let's be real, c'mon now. How many women talk about "oh I can't date someone with a bad face." You barely hear it. You hear about height all the time. This is simple statistics.

AutomaticMeaning3844 · 2025-01-29T04:59:41+00:00

Average woman = healthy (19-21 BMI) woman with an average face

CompetitiveSugar6451 · 2025-01-30T10:31:06+00:00

Has anyone noticed women only seem to go crazy about blue or other light eyes colours ? IRL or online I never heard or saw a woman say : “He has such beautiful brown eyes” while they go crazy over piercing blue eyes.

Feel I would do much better if I had blue eyes instead of brown.

washington_breadstix · 2025-01-31T09:13:16+00:00

Recently someone told me about a study that had some interesting findings: Apparently the people who benefit the most from "pretty privilege" are not the most attractive people. If you want to maximize the amount of preferential treatment you get based on your looks, it's better to be just good-looking enough to stand out, but not like model-tier hot. You should want to be around a standard deviation or two above the average. If you're really far toward the "hot" end of the bell-curve, there are serious diminishing returns on your hotness and you may even face discrimination for being so attractive. This phenomenon is apparently more pronounced among women, especially women of color.

RayAP19 · 2025-01-25T17:54:30+00:00

I'm new here and a little confused about this thread-- do we post pics of ourselves to be rated?

Spread-Em-Plz · 2025-01-29T03:59:46+00:00

I remember i had this discussion in a similar space a while back and now I’m remembering it

But I wonder how common it is (or if it even happens) to have dudes who are good-looking enough in their own right but are socially too low-caliber, too dorky, or too autistic to actually get the girls they want or are on their level. (This relegating them to having to date down or be single entirely)

Do you guys think this basically ever happens on any real scale? If so how commonly do you think this occurs?

New-Western-4819 · 2025-01-31T03:01:17+00:00

wow this thread is already dead. damn. anyways, what's the fattest person youd be willing to date? give an estimate of either bodyweight, bmi, hip to waist ratios. whatever works

Spread-Em-Plz · 2025-01-26T01:49:03+00:00

It’s hilarious how one thing people overcomplicate us the mere fact that if people look at you constantly, or someone constantly, it means they’re attractive. It’s quite simple

It might not mean that specific person wants you (especially because kids and babies do this a lot too), but it does say something good usually

It could be striking ugliness, but that’s usually so evident it’s not a question if you truly were

Honestly if you’ve ever wondered how attractive you are, this is the prime question to ask yourself. You barely will ever stand out to people if you’re truly dead average

Corbast7 · 2025-01-25T21:04:23+00:00

LMS theory is dumb and makes no sense: Money doesn’t make a man sexy, it’s the assumed behavior behind how he made that money. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos would be widely considered two of the sexiest men in the world if that weren’t true.

“Status” is also so vague and seems to get used as a catch all for your job and hobbies. To me “status” just means what other people think of you, so looks is therefore part of your social status. It’s a bad term.

A better way to look at attraction imo is looks vs behavior. Behavior encompasses everything from charisma to your job, pass-times, altruism, confidence and other social skills, etc.. Looks and behavior matter for everyone but I do believe that generally women are attracted to a more even ratio of the two than men are.

FawningDeer37 · 2025-01-25T22:16:59+00:00

I’ve come to a conclusion that as far as pure social treatment goes (not necessarily sexual/dating) facial attractiveness is the most biggest element.

I’m not very tall at all, like 5’5ish, but I have a very handsome face and as such have always tended to float into the top social circles at college or work or what have you. I also get treated very well at restaurants and in public in general. When I hit on women, I may get shut down romantically but they’ll still want to talk to me and befriend me as opposed to acting disgusted.

I think being someone who is pleasant to look seems to be a net positive overall even if other traits aren’t optimal.

Excellent_Badger123 · 2025-01-27T11:15:03+00:00

Peptides for the long term skincare game, I love my peptides. What are your skincare product must haves?

relish5k · 2025-01-27T18:57:40+00:00

I actually think Adrien Brody is more handsome than the other guy. He has the soulful artist fuckboy face. The other guy is too normie for me.

bad_nerves · 2025-01-28T15:29:22+00:00

looks don't matter for 80-90% of people, anyone who believes it matters to such a significant degree is likely average themselves and angry they don't get the treatment that very attractive people do (top 5-10% of the spectrum) or may genuinely be part of that bottom 5-10%

ThatLeval · 2025-01-27T11:36:53+00:00

What's the point of this thread existing?

The last 1 had 402 comments in 15 days. That's roughly 27 comments a day. 27 extra comments on the daily thread makes no difference. Even if you want to argue that it'd be more because there's more people there, what are we talking about ? 100 extra comments in a thread that regularly gets over 2.5k? That's a 4% increase

This thread is pointless and just causes extra work for moderators on the daily thread

ThatBitchA · 2025-01-25T19:58:21+00:00

Women find all kinds of things attractive.

It's not just the physical appearance of a man. It's the whole package of the man.

Stop obsessing on your looks. Have good hygiene, good manscaping, and clothes that fit decent and go socialize.

Desperate-Can-8729 · 2025-01-25T20:35:11+00:00

Huge comment but I'd love for someone to debate me out of this, and can't make it it's own post.

Due to Lookism the majority of Men have ACCESS to a more advantageous and consistent dating strategy than nearly all Women.

I am not interested in Meta-dating discussion over whether this is good or bad, or conversations about trade-offs, but only to debate over if it's true that vaguely the top 80% of men, from above average to some range below average, have access to this advantage over almost all women.Also if you don't disagree with the premise, but just one of the little foundations, please state that lol.

A few "foundations" we could fight over.

A majority of men are genuinely seen as unattractive by a majority of women, but most men are attracted to most women. Women aren't lying against their own interest here, there is a genuine lack of attraction that they can't snap their fingers and undo in their brain.
Women generally socially perform a sort of "looks-maxxing" culturally across the board, with heavy emphasis on makeup and other beauty improvement skills ingrained in their upbringing. Gym/Sports is the Male equivalent, and vaguely less than 30% of Men ages 15-35 go to the Gym, much less for sports.
Women have an extreme looks advantage when it comes to the trend up in bodyfat. Naturally women carry higher bodyfat %, and a higher bodyfat %, (until a overweight looking threshold where it's ugly), can both add sexual attraction, and add a rounded youthful look to women. Men that have the equivalent modern average, to higher bodyweight generally have unattractive facial and/or bodily features that repel women. (Even at 16%+ bodyfat)
Only 5% of Men are 6'2 feet or taller. Only 12% of men are 5'5 or shorter.

If the above is true; an attractive Man has significantly more options, and less competition than an attractive Woman.

If you are a top 80% attractiveness Man and you do the following.

Diet down to 10-12% bodyfat almost entirely for face-gains.
Gym for atleast a year, building up shoulders and abdominals.
Are atleast 5'6 to begin with. (This is it's own topic and 12% is small enough to fit in the bottom 20% outlier.)
Do the reddit-tier basic boring, moisturize every day, dress not-poorly, wear cologne, bald or decent haircut. (This isn't enough without the other improvements and is way too overstated online, but is necessary.)
Don't need a good personality, but atleast have interpersonal skills for 1-2 normal friends that you know how to have a conversation with.
If you have a major facial deformity, get the surgery for it, the big ones for chin, jaw and nose are all very safe.

You will skyrocket into the top 20% - 1% attractive Men category.

Men on average do not do this, Men are not socialized to do this, Men are so incredibly fucked over by the obesity epidemic making what could be very attractive faces into tubs of fat. If you are a top 20% Man then you are so much better by comparison than the "bottom 80%" of Men, Women will flock your way, because there is such a very small pool of attractive Men that women are in their own way desperate for.

It is possible that even with all of this, maybe you're 5'6, maybe you can't ever surpass the top 15% of men threshold with all of this improvement. That still there are 6'1 guys that will have more success than you with half the effort, but it doesn't matter because you aren't in fierce competition with them. This is not a "beta-buxx" situation.

They, and you, will have a massive flood of women when you reach this top 20% threshold. Way too many women wanting, for the amount of men offering. Being a top 20% guy means you aren't fighting with those other more gifted guys over the same women, because there is a raw higher volume of attractive women that looksmatch or exceed you, your pool for dating becomes gigantic.

This is a consistent dating strategy that applies to almost all Men, that lets you have access to a massive pool of women for filtering through and eventually LTR Marriage Etc if you so choose. Generally at this stage it is up to you whether or not to pursue Marriage, as LTR is generally a default dating goal for women and all the power is put on the Man for committing past dating.

Women do not have access to this same dating strategy.

Women that try the same strategy will better their standing, but to nowhere near the same extent, and for 95% of women they cannot reach the benefits that Men do with this dating strategy for the following reasons.

You will still have to compete with a large pool of women in your same "tier" and above of attractiveness, due to the raw volume of more attractive women.
Many attractive men will still hook up with you, and keep you dangling in the unsure if LTR is coming zone, independent of if you improve or not.
If men already would find you attractive, investing a great deal of effort in maximizing appearance gives diminishing returns, again due to the sheer volume of women.
Men generally aren't dating women 4+ years older than them, while the same is not true for Women, "aging out" isn't a hard wall, but a faster decline in the already small pool of attractive men picking you over their other options.

TLDR: Most women find majority of men unnatractive, most men can looksmax into that attractive camp. Men in the attractive camp have little competition from other men so they disproportionately thrive over women that looksmax.

attendquoi · 2025-01-25T22:13:56+00:00

It's fascinating to me the way people on this sub dissect attractiveness. I just look at someone 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Maffioze · 2025-01-25T23:11:38+00:00

https://youtu.be/ly21dNelseE?si=lJ32b9aN05w6YrYM

Most underrated rap song.

ThatBitchA · 2025-01-31T21:21:53+00:00

Men just need to smile more.

Negative_Face6137 · 2025-01-26T00:07:35+00:00

Who I look like: Simone Giertz, The types of guys I try to date: Harry Melling-John Krasinski hot, Guys I'd actually refer but don't bother with: James Franco, John Stamos hot, The types of guys that approach me: Danny Davito, but with weirder eyes

Title	LOOKS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	6
Comments	325
Date	January 25, 2025 5:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1i9resl/looks_weekly_discussion_thread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/looks-weekly-discussion-thread.1542139 https://theredarchive.com/post/1542139

Comments

Due to Lookism the majority of Men have ACCESS to a more advantageous and consistent dating strategy than nearly all Women.

Women do not have access to this same dating strategy.