Men place women on a pedestal and in doing so they start to hate women for any show of humanity.

Gold_Sheepherder6569 · 2026-07-22T15:30:24+00:00

I disagree, the reason why men bring up the women and being able to smell bad behaviour and also the women choosing men for fairly is that women say they can do these things fairly often. Women say they can smell misogyny or insecurity, they also say that they are fairer in their assessment of men and care more about looks.

No_Self_2165 · 2026-07-22T17:02:29+00:00

Okay what should men do about this?

brassbuffalo · 2026-07-22T16:35:47+00:00

Point 1: Thee issue is often that women routinely claim they are mind readers. Many women love to say that they can tell that men are misogynists or insecure, and that's why incels can't get a girl. So there are women like you saying "we can't read minds or know men's inentions" and there are women like saying that they read minds and know men's intentions. These women never seem to call each other out.

Point 2: Imagine if you dated a guy who was kinda frugal with you but then you find out he used to take women on fancy dates and expensive vacations. Then, all sorts of men tell you that him not spending money on you is proof that he really likes you. Would you believe those men? Would you feel like you're getting a better deal?

Point 3: My only contention is that you say attraction isn't meritocracy. People treat it like it is, and it's seen as a personal failing to not attract anyone. Even ostensibly "blue pill" advice pushes this narrative that relationships are "achieved" through hard work. This isn't something men do. This is something society teaches.

antenonjohs · 2026-07-22T15:17:02+00:00

I somewhat agree, but I also think a lot of women unintentionally lead men towards thinking that attraction is a meritocracy, as well. Women want to advise men to be a good person, be themselves, have their hobbies, practice basic hygiene, have female friends.

The just world fallacy is pervasive all over the place with dating… people don’t want to admit that a guy can be single for a long time with hobbies, friends, fitness, hygiene, and generally good character.

TheKindlyPoltergeist · 2026-07-22T16:01:42+00:00

Women are just human beings same as men. Yes they are pretty but they also as individuals have their own good traits, bad traits, interests, and goals. When you view women as prize vs viewing them as a person you want to be friends with ( even if that means romantic friendship) then your already on the wrong path.

PunkPirate56364 · 2026-07-22T17:52:40+00:00

That's the double sword created by the blue pillers.

On one hand women do enjoy privileges by being considered angels.

On other hand it places expectations on women to behave like angels.

Men are not the only ones promoting "women are wonderful" bias. Women do it too.

How many women still claim that women are attracted to nice personality? And that doing chores is what makes men hot?

Melodic_Structure928 · 2026-07-22T15:53:47+00:00

I mean I agree but the part that gets left out is the idea is that this gets pushed equality if not more so pushed by women themselves.

They are for some reason venomous when women are not mind readers and have bad experience with men. They bitterly say that women supposed to have intuition and x-ray vision to see who is good who is bad.

that's blue pills fault. When every struggling guy is told nonsense that women can sense the misogyny you hold within you before you've even talked to them and thats the sole reason for your predicament, the inverse of men claiming pick better becomes appropriate.

unless of course we get women to be truthful for once and concede that they've been lying about there just world.

They also give no room for women to get experience and learn from it. Look how bitter they are about af/bb. Again, it's impossible to make a point that a woman can try something and learn from it, and it will change her perspective, so her desires will change.

that's fair actually, but men don't have to put up with this arrangement, if they don't want to then they dont have to. too many men, this is what would bee seen as there equivalent of how a women would view incel, whose a jobless gamer demanding that women gives him a chance. I mean can you not clearly see how the arrangement doesn't sound attractive. Point is women keep demanding men and tryna shame men into being beta but can never name what's in it for him. All while shaming men's standards and simultaneously saying they arent entitled to anything, which is a statement I agree with but women seemlying always forget that this applies to them as well.

They think that women should choose men fairly. Meaning that looks and other things thats that are out of men's control shouldn't be a part of the equation, and women supposed to be the moral judges and reward men who were good boys with sex. It's impossible to tell that women, just as men, have different values and morality, and people with similar or compatible values will date each other.

you just described the blue pill. Only thing that was left out is that women reinforce this message when it's time to shame and not when it's time to date. You almost correctly asseted the problem in some of these instances but ethier didnt see or deliberately left about how much of a role women themselves play in upholding them.

stats135 · 2026-07-22T16:07:53+00:00

The blame isn't on your "intuition" it is on you risk taking. You don't need "intuition" to know that the safe boring nice guy is going to have a lower likelihood or abuse and cheating. Too often women choose to go for the bad boy instead and shock pikachu they get abused or cheated on. If you drive a car at .5 speed limit with your seat-belt on and die in a car accident you have my condolences. If ride a motorbike 2x speed limit and die in an accident, thank god someone more worthy can finally get an organ transplant. You see men do this all the time. We explicitly tell you that we want debt free virgins without tattoos. Not to say these women won't fuck us over, but the likelihood is orders of magnitude smaller.
Oh we absolutely agree that women can change and learn. Its just that we see that more often than not its change for the worse.
men refuse to see it.

This is why manosphere exists. To open our eyes that worse men can get more and better sexual relationships. I don't come to manosphere to be a "better" man I come here to be a man that gets more sex with more attractive partners more often. If that makes me a "worse" man then so be it.

Lemon_gecko · 2026-07-22T15:26:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SweetTaterSalad · 2026-07-22T18:33:02+00:00

I agree with your point at least most of it I think.

I think it's a chicken and egg argument but consider this.

Man approaches woman

Woman responds to man in a way that she believes is positive.

Man misunderstands woman and reacts in a way that confuses woman.

Woman interprets reaction as negative and defends and/or retaliates.

Woman feels injured and she rationalizes for self-protection.

Woman stores experience as quality of ALL men instead of isolated experience (accumulates with every cycle)

Woman assesses accumulated experiences, makes any necessary corrections, adjustments and/or preparations and waits for the next cycle.

Meanwhile she shares her accumulated experiences with all of her other female connections causing everyone's list to be updated with everyone else's experiences.

Man misinterprets woman's reaction.

Man interprets women's reaction as dysfunction, selfishness, hatred, or disinterest.

Man's ego is bruised and he rationalizes for self-protection.

Man stores experience as quality of ALL women instead of isolated experience (accumulates with every cycle).

Man assesses accumulated experiences, makes any necessary corrections, adjustments and/or preparations and waits for the next cycle.

Meanwhile he shares his accumulated experiences with all of his other male connections causing everyone's list to be updated with everyone else's experiences.

Now if it were only that clean, we'd only be about 25% as messed up as we are. Because you have to add in, consumerism, propaganda, greed, envy, TV, parental influence, co-ed discussions, polyamorous relationship dynamics, morals, politics and about a zillion other things that are added to the accumulated lists of experiences.

This is a very big nasty mess to navigate and we keep putting ourselves through it over and over and over and every generation is going to have a larger and larger and larger list of experiences that prove why the other gender is the problem.

cascadesblue · 2026-07-22T20:02:30+00:00

Women do it themselves, thats why women react so strongly when you mention anything not positive about women. Example- women do Not care about emotional intelligence, men know this is true, its women who get enraged when they hear anything that deviates from the we're not shallow narrative.

TopShelfSnipes · 2026-07-22T17:13:11+00:00

They are for some reason venomous when women are not mind readers and have bad experience with men. They bitterly say that women supposed to have intuition and x-ray vision to see who is good who is bad. The other option is that we're all liars who promised good ~~prizes~~ women but in reality it's damaged goods. It's impossible to make a point that this "intuition" it's just emotional intelligence with pattern recognition, that women need experience, but still they are not completely brind.

The men who do this are approaching dating and sex like a video game, or extremely autistically. They either want it to be a set of inputs that guarantee an output, or they want it to be a meritocracy where all people are created equal, where what they lack in looks and fun personality they can compensate for with "general ethics" and they want women to choose based on ethics because at the end of the day they want to be chosen. And their general "virtue" is largely based on the absence of negative behaviors in relationships that they never had the opportunity to do because of lack of experience, so it's at best hypothetical, and at worse an outright lie they tell themselves (because bad people often think they're good people).

A lot of them have an unhealthy lack of self-esteem, and as such they are constantly looking to outside sources to provide them with validation (likes on social media, comments on social media agreeing with them, etc.) of which the most meaningful for most guys is the genuine sexual desire of a woman because it's something that cannot be faked and holds near-universal value in the eyes of men, so it is arguably the least assailable type of external validation they could ever hope to obtain.

They also give no room for women to get experience and learn from it. Look how bitter they are about af/bb. Again, it's impossible to make a point that a woman can try something and learn from it, and it will change her perspective, so her desires will change. That people in different stages of life have different priorities and that doesn't make "younger" version of them more "honest". No. There is only one reason in the minds of men. The first desire is true desire, and she can't just locked him up because she is cheaper than he wanted, so she settled with someone in her budget.

AF/BB is very different than maturity. AF/BB is an unhealthy mating pattern, and it's reasonable for someone to not want to be "settled for". The best relationships, a person is desired for their physical characteristics, their personality is deemed fun and enjoyable, and they are considered a good person to do life with. It's reasonable for someone to not want to be 1/3. But rather than complain and demand "equal treatment", they should leave the relationship.

OTOH, maturity means people won't take the risks at 25 they might've taken at 18, because relationship dynamics are highly context-dependent, and very individual dependent. Big difference between how a college freshman with overbearing parents who's been longing to be on her own will act during her first semester, and how that same woman will act at 25 when she's trying to find a legit boyfriend. But this goes both ways. They still have to be a decent, enjoyable human. Sure they might not enthusiastically vibe and hook up in one night like they would've at 18, but if they start gatekeeping sex, acting spurned, and conducting multi-round job-interview style dates, they're going to come off completely offputting.

So there are multiple factors at play here. Realistic expectations would help a lot of people here. Good men want to build a connection, not go through a gauntlet just to prove he's not like her exes. Good women usually won't put out right away, or if they're willing to, it's largely dependent on how he behaves, too...not just something she does regardless of how her date is acting "because he's hot", whatever that means to her.

They think that women should choose men fairly. Meaning that looks and other things that out of men's control shouldn't be a part of the equation, and women supposed to be the moral judges and reward men who were good boys with sex. It's impossible to tell that women, just as men, have different values and morality, and people with similar or compatible values will date each other. That attraction isn't some meritocracy, and sex is activity and not a reward women give away. No, men refuse to see it.

See my response to #1. This is just an elaborate intellectual framework created by socially inhibited men who tend to overthink things, to rationalize why women should choose them instead.

The best men don't do these things, and that's why women want to be around them more.

Gentle_prv · 2026-07-22T21:52:14+00:00

I’ll just say this:
Women have a much stronger in-group bias than men, which means women are less likely to go against the grain, and unwilling to challenge their fellow women, especially if those women are bigots.

A great example of this is the feminists movement post 2nd wave. Since that wave, misandry has infected the movement like a cancer, and as far as I can tell, women and feminists seem quite unwilling to silence this bigotry and deal with it properly. Like, those misandrist are monsters, even going so far as to have hate for little boys bc they are “the oppressor class” by birth; if that’s not bigotry, I don’t know what is.

I was raised by a single mother 14+ year Air Force veteran for most of my life. She’s the reason why I have such a strong spirit for equality and equality among all peoples. She’s also the reason why I treat women like people, with all of their strengths and flaws, because she was a younger mother pregnant at 19), and I learned at early age that she was just a young adult learning how to parent, which made me respect her more, and women as a whole.

I say all of this because some women are just shallow, hateful, and arrogant, and their fellow women refuse to cal them out on it. Men have never claimed that you are mind reader, you did that yourselves with your whole “I can smell an incel misogynist from a mile away,” but still date criminals and abusers. Some women claim they actually do care about someone’s personality, but their looks “standards” are actually hard requirements, which is the definition of being shallow and superficial.

“But if a man is struggling to get a date despite having friends, a social life, hobbies, good hygiene, etc, it must be entirely his fault!!!” No, you dunce. It’s that some women are just so shallow that they refuse to give an average man a chance and then label him a bigot for no good reason.
^and before you come at me, I’ve in been in a LTR for the last 11 years, so by a lot of these women standards, I must be a paragon of moral virtue and/or attractive somehow.

Lacunaethra · 2026-07-22T15:27:59+00:00

In general, dating is treated like there should be one solution or one way that magically guarantees a gf, because we all share the same brain and the same preferences.

BuT woMeN sAy thEY wAnT a goOd chaRaCteR

Yeah, yet some women want to marry criminals.

WoMeN onLy liKe bAdbOys and rApiSts.

And yet most of us don't want such a dude.

YoU muSt bE 6 ft 6 tO geT a Gf

Countless women happily paired up with shorter guys.

If struggling men would treat every woman they interact with as an individual instead of a statistic, I'm sure the dating hell wouldn’t be as hellish.

Valid for women who generalize men as well, obv.

wtknight · 2026-07-22T17:56:40+00:00

An average woman can’t have casual sex with a high value man and expect an average man whom she makes wait for sex to be happy with that. Why would he be?

Women just need to treat all men whom they want to be potentially intimate with the same. The problem is average young women putting high value men on a pedestal and then taking advantage of the sexual freedoms that feminism has given them, not men putting women in a pedestal.

Ok-Ninja-8165 · 2026-07-22T16:40:21+00:00

There's no good information how to deal with opposite gender. So men try to make sense out of what's available. And that's what you get as a result. As an example, try to find anything useful about flirting. You'll find a lot of words that only make sense if you already know how to do it.

Popular-Future-6289 · 2026-07-22T19:44:27+00:00

Well, maybe women should stop saying thry can "smell" or "feel" men's BS from a supposed "mile" away. Yall are the ones spreading that shit.
Hell yea we give space for women to grow and learn, doesnt mean we want that kind of women. The previous generation and the internet has opened yall to a shitloaf of women's bad experiences, yet you still repeat them regardless. Its your right to change, a privilege to be accepted for it.
Then maybe start pushing thr "looks matter more" narrative than "personality matters more" one. Put the "good man" preference at the bottom of that list or mention it last. Yall do that and one day yall might see a shift. And sex is absolutely a reward that women use. Stop the BS.

Nobody good wins, men or women. Lets all just be fucking shit people because thats the easiest thing to do anyways lolol.

k33p-1t-s1mpl3 · 2026-07-22T20:36:32+00:00

Mating is a form of competition. Both men and woman have their own form of intersexual competition. Men compete against other men in the form resource acquisition, which entails demonstrating athletic ability, competency, intelligence, and social skills. But in order for this competition to be worth the effort and risk of failure, there needs to be a reward. Since women, as they are, aren’t necessarily a reward, we build illusions in our head that they are some majestic creatures, aka a “prize”. Women feed into this by wearing makeup and dressing in ways to capture attention.

Women compete among other women to hopefully attract the men who’ve done well in the male intersexual competition. But it’s not direct competition to see who’s best, it’s more of the form of deceit and manipulation. For instance, a single fit woman will happily empower their overweight friend to be body positive. Another example is they will empower their friends to continue with their blatantly toxic traits so that they are less competition. This is true for single friends groups. Women who want to see you succeed in the dating world, like a mother or grandma, may be more honest with you about your issues.

This sub is just a cesspool of complaining about human nature and our mating patterns. But the issue isn’t men or woman. It’s the fact that we are primates and we have mating rituals and instincts like all other mammals.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2026-07-22T20:41:02+00:00

It’s expecting women to be good but them being shit in moral areas.

MarioWilson122 · 2026-07-22T22:31:03+00:00

You’re starting with the conclusion that men see women as prizes, then interpreting every complaint through that lens. Men being frustrated that some women repeatedly choose obvious red flags does not mean they expect mind reading or believe women are “damaged goods.” The criticism is usually that certain warning signs were visible, ignored, or even treated as attractive until the consequences appeared. Women can misjudge people, but that does not make every bad outcome completely unpredictable.

The same applies to experience and changing preferences. A woman can genuinely mature and want different things later, but men are also allowed to question whether they are being chosen for genuine desire or because they are now the safer, more practical option. That concern is especially understandable when the men she desired earlier received easier treatment while the later man is expected to provide more commitment, effort, and stability. Calling that AF/BB may oversimplify some cases, but pretending the pattern can never happen is just as simplistic.

Most men also understand that attraction is not fair or based on moral merit. The complaint is not usually that women owe sex to “good boys.” It is that people often promote one set of traits as desirable while repeatedly rewarding a different set in practice. Pointing out that contradiction is not the same as demanding attraction become a meritocracy.

Some men certainly become bitter and reduce women to stereotypes, but your explanation does the same thing in reverse. You take several different male concerns, assign all of them the same motive, and then conclude that men struggle to connect because they do not see women as human. That does not prove your point; it mostly avoids engaging with what those men are actually arguing.

efficientaficionado · 2026-07-22T18:47:08+00:00

They think that women should choose men fairly

Realistically is the correct word. Hypergamy isn't fair in what we consider to be an egalitarian society where people should be seeking out their equal, but it's the way things are. If women would date realistically (AKA men who are their equals or only slightly better), they wouldn't get burned so much trying to compete in rosters of only the top echelon of men in terms of looks, money, status, etc.

At the end of the day, you do you; but you can't come crying to men and expect sympathy when it's clear you aren't choosing sexual partners in a way that will realistically lead to commitment.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2026-07-22T16:41:33+00:00

Women have a long history of weaponizing the narrative of their supposed superior feminine intuition in order to argue that their feels are objective truth. Shakira even wrote a song about it ("Las mujeres somos las de la intuición," i.e., "We women are the intuitive ones").

If women would admit that humans in general just suck at reading each other, and that they as humans are no exception, they would get a whole lot more grace on this matter. Indeed, I don't know why women aren't more honest about this, since they are judged far less harshly for showing vulnerability than men are.

In short, either accept the higher standard that claiming to have women's intuition attaches to you, or just tear down that narrative altogether. However, you can't have your cake and eat it.

SeemedGood · 2026-07-22T16:44:38+00:00

…or women put themselves on a pedestal, portray themselves as an ultimate prize to be won, view relationships as markers of status, and some men believe it. And then those same women get upset when the men who don’t believe it point out that women are merely humans who have become accustomed to a favorable supply/demand distribution and using that favorable distribution to their advantage.

IgorXY · 2026-07-22T15:39:37+00:00

Men view women as some sort of ultimate prize, something to win, to show status.

At some point it becomes practivally impossible to meet people and let feelings develop naturally. When dating is set up as competition where women are the judges, is it realy weird to see their desire as a reward? Even if it isn't by intention.

That's just a reaction to being constantly told that we are single because of out personalities and how women can smell bad qualities. That's it. When this is no longer the case, there will be no "mind reading / choose better" comments.
You don't need to try all drugs to know they are bad. If you want to learn you should just listen to older women that you trust. And men are also jealous of ability to learn and experiment. For some of us we don't have it until pretty late in life, when we will be critisiced for being "immature".
"It's impossible to tell that women, just as men, have different values and morality, and people with similar or compatible values will date each other." do they? how different do you think women's preferences are? if this was the case the dating would have been more or less balanced. There are many femcels that are just as bad as incels, but they won't date them. Ideally dating should be fair and balanced, if it is not forced of course. "sex is activity and not a reward" well that is just because it is easy for you to get. Going to fast food restaraunt is not a reward for me now, I can easily afford it, but when I was a kid it was a reward for good grades or enduring long shopping routes :D But Igor, women are not restaraunts! I know, point still stands. Sex itself is not a reward, but finding someone who wants to do it with you requires you to be a person who others wants to have sex with, finding that person, and not screwing up. How is the positive outcome of this process is not a reward?

1) How can we connect with women? It's like kids in preschool can't relate to university students' problems and they are somehow offended. we are not on the same level, women are far ahead

2) I don't hate women, I am just frustrated with them. I think there is some weird stubborness goin on that prevents women from saying something like "yes I admit I have this and that easier than men". Because they think we will use it to force them to do something? Or why? Idk.

MVV4865 · 2026-07-22T19:48:00+00:00

Women's "intuition" confuses me. I heard that women have good intuition from women themselves. That they can sense if a man is desperate, not really interested in their personality, etc. So, I'm confused: do they have it or do they not?

theminxisback · 2026-07-22T15:56:51+00:00

All they care about is the audience. Women are the "prize" they can show off to the male audience around them. That's all they want is the validation and approval from other men.

The amount of times my clients have gotten the "bro seal of approval" from the audience when we go on our dates. Especially downtown on dirty 6th. The frat bros and fuckboys especially give my guys the "attaboy" and "bro I wanna fuck that too, nice one!"

And the list goes on with the shit I hear them say or that I later get told was said when I wasn't around to hear it. One of my most recent outings, my client got a fist bump from a fratboy with his buddies. Took one good look at me and held his fist out for my client to "bump" it.

My client looked at me, then at him and hesitantly "bumped fists" even though he clearly didn't want to. Then he later rolled his eyes and asked me what that was about. And I said that's code for "nice fucktoy you got for the night bro. Good one."

And he responded with wanting to vomit. Dudes like that make most of my clients sick to their stomachs. And they hate that I have to deal with that kinda shit all the time. Honestly makes our interactions that much more wholesome and endearing for me though.

It makes a night and day difference between guys I can genuinely trust. And the rest.

Patern recognition and intuition are so on point here, I can tell a predator from a message or vibe alone. It's fascinating.

Thank you for your posts, as per usual, deary. Keep it up!

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TankfarmMurdock · 2026-07-22T15:13:34+00:00

Sort of, I think. I have noticed a trend amongst struggling men “putting the pussy on a pedestal” and having that build resentment, but I think there’s a myriad of other factors at play, like neurodivergence for example.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2026-07-22T16:11:57+00:00

Not getting what you want and think you’re owed is plenty of reason; embellishment isn’t needed

Livid-Log7463 · 2026-07-22T20:36:52+00:00

Women treat men as if they are on pedestals, so why would it be a surprise when men see them as they treat themselves?

captaindestucto · 2026-07-22T21:18:22+00:00

In theory people's desires can change.

In reality, settling is something we see everywhere.

Hi-Road · 2026-07-22T22:05:29+00:00

I agree, but men and women both pick and choose when they wanna like this pedestal setup.

When people are benefitting from mess like this, everything's fine and dandy. Can't take ts seriously when people want to keep the benefits of gender essentialism and think they're gonna have no downsides. Like no, letting men essentially baby you is not going to coincide with them respecting your autonomy more. The oath to that is working towards true equality

rando_dud · 2026-07-22T22:58:54+00:00

I think this bitterness is the last phase of blue pill pretty much.

If you approach women as if they are precious angels that can be convinced to love you by being nice to them, sooner or later your world view will be confronted with reality.

I think men who do the blue pill for a while do tend to reach this stage.. it comes before the realization that your theories don't reflect reality and that you need to go back to the drawing board.

LillthOfBabylon · 2026-07-22T15:58:31+00:00

It’s not really putting women on a pedestal, it’s about seeing people from a utility perspective. They only care if someone is of use to them. Also, it’s being an emotional toddler.

The other option is that we're all liars who promised good prizes women but in reality it's damaged goods

Toddlers want reality to bend to their will. If people aren’t doing what the toddler wants, the toddler feels victimized.

They think that women should choose men fairly

Honestly, I would argue the dating market is fair. THEY are the ones not fair they wouldn't choose themselves either.

women supposed to be the moral judges and reward men who were good boys with sex

But they’re not even good people to begin with.

because of this view men have struggles to connect with women

They struggle to connect with people, they only care when it doesn’t get them laid.

ProbablyNotABot6 · 2026-07-22T17:53:28+00:00

I think its more the opposite like they lower their expectations about what to expect from them and still manage to be shocked at how much further backwards they ask to bend and then start hating

NockerJoe · 2026-07-22T19:26:57+00:00

Those points would go out the window if the partner you learned to like was met with actual enthusiasm and not jaded suspicion. You're allowed to be human. But if the guy you pick second gets a version if you that is flat out less loving he's allowed to not want that deal or like it.

VetLady_Meowdy_6969 · 2026-07-22T22:08:39+00:00

They bitterly say that women supposed to have intuition and x-ray vision to see who is good who is bad.

As a woman in her 40s, I can confidently say that many young women and teens mistake obvious aggressive and possessive traits as something attractive or something to love. Things that for other men are very obvious red flags. Men and women do have many of their own perspectives in life, but both sexes can see plain red flags in their own gender.

They think that women should choose men fairly. Meaning that looks and other things that out of men's control shouldn't be a part of the equation, and women supposed to be the moral judges and reward men who were good boys with sex.

Many average dudes, especially young men, do quantify and take a logical approach to their own attraction. In this context, I do believe it's fair for some men to expect others to not have a shallow approach, just like them. I personally think that everyone capable and deserving of love should love and choose others fairly.

My husband chose me because I was nice to him even if I was fat when we met; while he could literally be with two other girls who were skinny and pretty, he still chose me. I asked him a few times what he saw in me, and he said that he's not going to be with a woman that everyone desires and that it's tiring to always be worried about cheating. That...was both comforting and mean 😂, but I still loved him.

That attraction isn't some meritocracy, and sex is activity and not a reward women give away. No, men refuse to see it.

I totally agree; I also think that some women could learn something from trying to see sex from the male perspective. It's not just an activity, especially if you're an adult (male) virgin. It's an existentially gratifying experience when it comes to someone's humanity, maturity, capability to be loved/desired and love/desire others, and masculinity.

LopsidedPen9859 · 2026-07-22T15:31:07+00:00

"If you fast rid yourself of all personal interests and broader values as a child, we will later reward you with a wife (and family)"

That's the social contract, still, for men.

(It SHOULD be a "don't hate the player, hate the game" thing, but many men take it out on women, as it is true that feminism changed the equation here.)

Just cultivate boys' passions and cheer them on so singlehood becomes a more bearable outcome.

Every happy man I know did the thing they found interesting, at least as much as they could.

TheoreticalUser · 2026-07-22T15:46:38+00:00

Is it not simpler to assume men and women know less about what they truly want and more about what they believe they should want?

And that the disparity between the two is what causes most of the issues?

I think that is actually the case, in most cases.

ClevelandSpigot · 2026-07-22T17:42:05+00:00

No, no, no. I am one of these guys, and I will tell you why we eventually end up not liking women. I'm not going to say "hate", because that is a strong word, and it is not true.

I had a very wholesome and stable upbringing. No neglect or abuse of any kind. I don't remember any specific time when someone took me aside and told me to be gentle with girls, and that they might need your protection from time to time, and that they value strength in men, but that message certainly permeated my youth.

Also, this was driven home in me concerning my mother and sister. Always honor and protect both of them. This next part was definitely subconsciously taught to me, but that I have to prove my worth to women.

I also, even at an early age, was romantically attracted to the girls in my class, and that I already desired them (for what, though, I had no idea). I actually remember flirting with a girl in first grade. Becky. Her twin sister Kate was jealous. I also remember her family moving away, and being very sad about that.

So, what do you do with beautiful objects that need protection? You put them on a pedestal. Where am I now? I'm 50. I still put women on a pedestal. My heart's been broken many times. I've also been disappointed several times, and let down. For whatever reason, I still have the drive to be in there - despite whatever the dating field looks like.

What changed over the years? Well, what chipped away at it was stuff like hearing the stereotype that Catholic school girls were easy. Stuff like that. I knew that this stuff was a generalization, and not true. Maybe a Catholic school girl, a much older one, had sex with more than one guy? Sure. That's probably true. But not as a whole.

I have to stop here for a moment and say that I was also held to a high standard by my family. I have since come to the conclusion that I also hold other people to those same high standards - which is unfair of me to do, and also a large source of my disappointment in people. So, you see why that is important here.

So, I heard all of these rumors and stereotypes about girls as I grew up. I honestly did not believe any of them. Some boy would make a lewd comment about some girl's butt in fourth grade, and I would roll my eyes. "Whatevs."

I dated through middle school and high school - whatever was appropriately defined as "dating" at each part. School dances. Playing Nintendo on the weekends together. Going back to what I mentioned before about me being held to a high standard, and then me unfairly doing the same with other people, I was constantly disappointed with how girls acted around me. Girls who I knew liked me a lot.

On a pedestal + held to high standard - them not acting like that = disappointment.

A defining moment in my life happened when I was 22. I had a high school girlfriend who I was in love with. After high school, we ended up a thousand miles away from each other. I was in the military. She was in college. I loved her so much that I didn't want to hold her back from having a typical college experience. I also didn't want to have to worry about her while I was on the other side of the world. So, I thought that breaking up with her was a noble thing to do, and my plan was to reconnect on the other side.

I did break up with her, and it did break both of our hearts. I did keep in touch with her through the next couple year, and I made sure to see her and take her out on a date whenever I happened to be home. Everything was going swimmingly. The plan seemed to be working.

The timing of this big event was momentous. In the same week, my contract with the military was going to expire, and she was going to graduate from college two days later, and then my brother was getting married two days after that, and I was his Best Man. I talked to her about this. She invited me to her graduation. I invited her to my brother's wedding as a date. We both accepted. Everything was going according to plan.

My contract expires. I get in my car and drive all night to get back home. Her and I meet up the next day and spend the whole day together. We ended up making out in the evening, but I didn't push it. I figured that since we were making out, it's golden. I'm locked in. The plan is going to work.

The next day was her graduation. So, it was only me and her family, as I was the only non-family member that she invited. She didn't even invite any other friends. The plan was for us to go to her graduation, meet up with her afterwards, and then go to dinner, and then go home.

We go to her graduation, which was an all-day affair. We meet up with her afterwards. She's happy to see me. I congratulate her. We go to dinner.

On the way to dinner, we make a stop to pick up some random guy who I had never heard about before. He was another friend of hers. Okay. The vibe seriously shifted, the way that it does when someone new joins an already-established group.

At dinner, there were probably eight of us. She made sure to not only sit next to him, but to sit at the far corner of the table away from me. I have this memory of this moment. While we are waiting for our meals, there was this moment where the oxygen was sucked out of the room for me, and time stopped.

I looked down at them at the opposite corner, and they were holding hands. They must have felt my gaze, because both of them looked at me and smiled. I scanned the other family members at the table who I could see. They were all looking at me. Our meals arrived right at that moment and interrupted it. After dinner, we all split up. She left with that guy for the night, and her family took me home. I asked her sister what was up with that guy, and she said that that was her boyfriend, and that they were pretty serious.

I was just making out with her last night. I was supposed to be taking her as a date to my brother's wedding in two days.

I realized that the plan had actually failed miserably. I realized that she had just publicly chosen that other guy over me. The next day, I called her. I was very angry, and I spoke about the events that happened in the 36 hours since I had been home. She confirmed that she is with this guy. I said that I didn't want her to go to my brother's wedding anymore. She said that she didn't want to go anymore. My heart was confused and broken.

Fast-forward through the next 20 years, I got married and divorced twice. I was not particularly enamored with either of them. But, they were enamored with me, and were really smitten with me, and I thought that it was time to do the noble thing and marry them. I was a good husband. I treated them very well. I protected and provided for them. They both ended up initiating the divorces because they both had decided that they didn't want to be married to me anymore - despite the vows that they said in front of everyone.

So, I still hold women on a pedestal, but at arm's length. I've learned to not so much believe what they say, and to even assume that their actions are duplicitous in some way. It is best to always add a level of suspicion onto what they say and do.

criticalcry-tactic00 · 2026-07-22T16:46:12+00:00

Women put themselves on the pedestal alone

Men place women on a pedestal and in doing so they start to hate women for any show of humanity.

Comments

Most of you arent exceptional enough to be rulebreakers. Get over it,

Most of you aren’t attractive enough for your personality to not matter. Get over it.

Most of you are still not exceptional. So oh well, who cares?

Title	Men place women on a pedestal and in doing so they start to hate women for any show of humanity.
Author	Lemon_gecko
Upvotes	30
Comments	350
Date	July 22, 2026 3:09 PM UTC (10 hours ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1v3iwei/men_place_women_on_a_pedestal_and_in_doing_so/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-place-women-on-a-pedestal-and-in-doing-so-they.1585610 https://theredarchive.com/post/1585610