Are ALL LTR's doomed to fail

LittyKitsune · 2021-07-28T12:14:57+00:00

20 years of monogamy, frequent and mostly satisfying sex, no infideltiy from either side, 15 years of that being co-habitation. Is this psychologically and biologically possible?

My parents have been married over 25 years. My dad is conventionally attractive and makes around $200k, so I guess he's HVM-ish? My mom is pretty, outgoing, and makes around the same amount so maybe HVW. Most people are shocked when they find out my parents' youngest (me!) is 22 because they don't look old enough to have grown children.

Lately I've been trying to figure out what makes them different from the marriages that go absolutely sideways. Besides the obvious (staying attractive, flirting constantly) I'm starting to think one of the biggest factors is zero alcohol.

My mom can't drink because it physically makes her ill, my dad doesn't because of childhood trauma related to alcoholism. A lot of their friends drink so they actually don't go out that much, and when they do they usually go together to have at least one other sober person to talk to. No alcohol also means less likely to make regrettable decisions.

Side note: For fun once I tried talking to them about "dead bedrooms." They were just...confused. Not having sex with your spouse for weeks or months on end outside of special cases like injury/postpartum recovery was like a foreign concept to them.

passepar2t · 2021-07-28T10:47:00+00:00

No. But there's no way to know in advance which will succeed and which will fail.

In fact, you can do everything right and have every advantage and your relationship might still fail while two people who got together for superficial bullshit may end up having the love of the ages.

gkom1917 · 2021-07-28T11:59:10+00:00

There's a handful of examples of 20+ years stable marriages without infidelity (at least detectable infidelity) and misery. The thing is such marriages don't seem to revolve primarily around sexual excitement. It doesn't necessarily mean bad sex or dead bedroom, on the contrary such couples seem to be quite content physically, at least on a surface, but still sex is clearly not the most important part.

The other common thing is there's visibly a great amount of mutual respect and willingness to compromise some things from both sides. Like no obvious entitlement.

Puzzleheaded_Bet7294 · 2021-07-28T13:06:36+00:00

My parents have been married for over 30 years, with pretty much no problems, and are like inseparable best friends. They just complement each other so well in so many aspects. I genuinely think what makes their marriage work is that they are rich af lol. Very few worries, so they just travel around the world now together. I mean they had to work hard to get to that point, but now they’re definitely enjoying life together discovering new places and having new experiences. But even when I was growing up and they were still grinding in their respective careers, they always seemed to work together as a perfect team. That’s just my experience.

GNP_Aficionado · 2021-07-28T11:22:52+00:00

Wrong. I'm more in love and satisfied with my wife of 16 years than the day I met her. Neither of us has ever cheated, nor wanted to. And yes, we still have very frequent and very satisfying sex.

NarniaFox · 2021-07-28T11:49:06+00:00

Not all marriages end up in divorce, not all couples end up with a dead bedroom situation and the majority of both men and women don't cheat.

Here's some data.

There are 52-56% chances that first marriage will last for 20 years.
There's another calculation though that estimates that an average marriage will last for 40 years.

I can't find the source study they're referring to, but here it's said that 21% of couples have sex more than 2 times a week (16% 2-3 times and 5% >4 times a week).

Cheating rates are highest among men in their 70-79 (what the hell?) and women in their 60-69. A possible explanation is that these generations overall score higher for cheating. So we can cautiously expect that these stats will improve in the future and that younger generations have better chances not to get cheated on.

Combining all of these we can say that some marriages will last and will work out. Not a lot of them. We could try to count probability, but it's pretty useless as not all long-lasting marriages have partners satisfied with their sexual lives or who have never cheated.

lavender-lesbian · 2021-07-28T14:26:35+00:00

i mean. my parents have been married for over 25 years. they lived together for a time as well.

both previously divorced. mom married a man who turned into an abusive prick and left him less than a year. my father married his high school sweetheart, which ended as anyone would expect it to.

no affairs. they still have a sex life(i moved out of their house, but staying the night is sometimes still an experience).

i can’t tell you if either of them are HV. they both have jobs, cars, family values, but they aren’t traditional in that my mother was a SAHM. she’s always had a job. i suppose they’re both average? not sure ? i can’t say if my father “beta-ed out” or not. bc it sure hasn’t turned dead bedroom and unfortunately if i’m over for too long they will inevitably make out somewhere like the kitchen. or living room. or any other common-space area. so i don’t think any loss of attraction has happened.

they’re both in their 50s now.

superlurkage · 2021-07-28T16:19:33+00:00

Psssst! Love exists. As does human diversity

Only siths believe in absolutes

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-07-28T10:36:02+00:00

Well, considering the divorce rate is not 100%, I would say that yes, successful LTRs are possible.

TomorrowsWar · 2021-07-28T12:31:00+00:00

Not at all. If both people want to make things work then things will work. All relationships have problems that result from the flaws within each person. If either person is a perfectionist, when problems arise and the relationship is at risk of ending, the perfectionist will end the whole relationship or hold a grudge and stain the relationship.

But with two secure people, when problems arise and threaten the relationship there is room for forgiveness and compromise.

Dissatisfaction happens when one or both people are not being honest about the issue from their perspective. They need to express how it makes them feel and what can be done about it. This should not be done with blame and should not be result in one person justifying their mistreatment of the other. Once you’re both on the same team it’s very easy to say how you feel and what you’d like the outcome to be. And because you’re on the same team you don’t demand perfection, you are looking for some effort but not total control.

What usually happens is people don’t have these conversations and then they are no longer on the same team - one person is self interested and is hiding how they feel and what they want and need

Orange_Paisley · 2021-07-28T14:01:17+00:00

My parents (mom, stepdad) have been together since 1975. My sister and her husband have been together since 2000. I have friends who married their high school sweethearts in the late 80s/early 90s and are still together. I’ve been with mine 8 years and we still boink regularly. Relationships are not doomed to fail, but they do require some work and not everybody is up to that in our instant gratification, “everything is disposable” society.

decoy88 · 2021-07-28T15:34:59+00:00

The loudest voices are usually the most miserable and distressed. The happy people stay quiet.

Except me of course.

nofap_champ · 2021-07-28T15:40:19+00:00

If it has been done by a person before it can be done again.

And this is something that has been done by millions of people. So no, a monogamous LTR is not doomed to fail.

The big problem imo is that nowadays a lot of men arent being very masculine for a variety of reasons and women are often keeping their options open, even in relationships.

Those 2 might be related.

BarestBranch · 2021-07-28T11:23:04+00:00

Of course long term relationships can work out. Y'all don't know couples who've been together for 20, 30, or even 40 years and who are still happy?

neetykeeno · 2021-07-28T11:31:10+00:00

Well...death is a thing. Everything is doomed just a matter of how and when

md8716 · 2021-07-28T15:17:45+00:00

LTR's can work for that long. It's actually quite easy. I'll say it again: strong long lasting marriages are easy. The issue is that most people are just mediocre and are incapable of doing it.

For example, landing a jumbo jet or dunking a basketball is quite easy for people with the training and aptitude for it, but impossible for most people because they lack one of those two things.

So the real issue isn't that it's hard to have a LTR for 50+ years. The issue is that most men and women are simply unqualified to do it.

Shitting on the idea of a lifelong marriage is basically the equivalent of shitting on the idea of dunking in a basketball game you're playing in, because you personally are too mediocre to be successful at it.

ffandyy · 2021-07-28T10:35:35+00:00

HVM will cheat? Says who?

GridReXX · 2021-07-28T11:44:27+00:00

Are you asking if couples have consistent happiness and “frequent” passionate sexual intimacy for 20 years straight? As in zero momentary lulls and zero fallibility at all times?

No I don’t think that’s a thing. It also seems odd to think of humans of even being possible of that. Even machines need down time for repairs and updates.

I think many longterm couples are full of joy and contentment. My parents have been married for 36 years and as empty nesters are having the time of their life traveling and dining out etc. But your definition/expectations (as described in some of the comments) seems inaccurate to the very nature of relationships.

PurpleLightningart · 2021-07-28T13:51:21+00:00

I swear some of the people who post on here, maybe even most, have never been in an actually relationship, or probably even dated or had sex, because some of the stuff on here so absolutely ridiculous

TotalTravesty · 2021-07-28T13:26:08+00:00

I don’t understand how anyone without psychic abilities can answer this question. We can cite any statistic that accounts for doomed relationship (e.g. divorce rate) and call everything else not doomed, but then people will want to speculate if those couples are really happy or if they’re not actually in dead bedrooms.

How are we supposed to prove this? Millions and millions of hidden cameras?

I’m inclined to believe the answer to your question is no because holy shit, if every LTR relationship was doomed to fail I think humanity would’ve gotten together and agreed not to do that. I also have faith in the LTR couples that tell me they’re still happy because that would be a weird thing to lie about. But I understand that drawing conclusions like that takes a level of faith in other people that is…beyond some others here.

Lotus_82 · 2021-07-28T15:57:40+00:00

Dude stop it with the blanket statements and the sweeping generalizations like “HMV will cheat and leave”.

Where did you even pick up this little nugget? Some incel forum? Because it wasn’t in science weekly..

MisterShogunate · 2021-07-28T11:00:15+00:00

A HVM will find ways to enjoy life aside from getting women as he gets older. That age is usually older than what most women would prefer, however. Usually 45+.

Pablo_el_Diablo88 · 2021-07-28T12:34:14+00:00

HVM will cheat and leave. HVW will struggle to remain satisfied with anything but a very HVM with his long term game on point.

This seems quite a harsh thing to claim in absolute terms like this.

wtknight · 2021-07-28T12:35:09+00:00

average and below average men and LVM will beta out relatively early on, leading to loss of attraction by female...

No. This doesn’t always happen.

And LVM with LVW will eventually become unsatisfied, or both will become unsatisfied, and eventually lead to mutual attraction loss, and even if they don't cheat or leave, will be miserable long term.

A lot of these people don’t really have that many options for relationships and they stay together.

Satisfying a woman’s hypergamy and developing an emotional bond is not as difficult as many men like to make it seem.

nemma88 · 2021-07-28T14:20:18+00:00

Would you say that there is NO instance in which an LTR can "work out" long term.

No. People who are unhappy in their relationship can and do for the most part get divorced.

Success for the sake of this post equating to...

20 years of monogamy, frequent and mostly satisfying sex, no infideltiy from either side, 15 years of that being co-habitation.

Infidelity most often results in divorce. Unsatisfying sex life can lead to divorce, if being single is preferred. Frequent is somewhat subjective, especially in older couple both want less sex than they did.

Considering the amount of people who don't get divorced, then many that get as far as marriage 'work out'.

HVM will cheat and leave. HVW will struggle to remain satisfied with anything but a very HVM with his long term game on point.

People get confused to how FDS defines it's own 'HVM' so this is a good example really. That's not really high value really is it, we can't define 'LTR success' as one thing and then go and call a person to that antithesis to that 'High value' . It's a spoon in a knife fight here, sure spoons are great for soup, in a way a knife wouldn't be.

Xx_SwordWords_xX · 2021-07-28T10:34:23+00:00

Lol.

If you remove love from the equation, sure.

LeJacquelope · 2021-07-28T10:39:56+00:00

Unlikely, but possible.

DLifts777 · 2021-07-28T13:15:52+00:00

The problem is a lot of people judge the suitability of LTR’s/marriage based on our parents/grandparents. The dating world has changed massively since their day. With the rise of apps and more sexual partners, people are likely to be less satisfied because they’ve had better and will not want to ‘settle’. The modern world is not as suited for marriage/LTR’s.

Willow-girl · 2021-07-28T13:34:22+00:00

I sure as hell hope not.

He is not even allowed to die, lol.

Harvest895 · 2021-07-28T15:04:28+00:00

Not everyone who’s in a LTR is high value. Most people are average. They date other average people and are happy. It’s time to spit out the black pill bruh.

Kookerpea · 2021-07-28T17:07:50+00:00

I know a lot of people who have had long, happy, sexually active marriages without cheating

spinsterchachkies · 2021-07-28T17:39:46+00:00

My parents have been married for over 30 years. My dad is HV, makes over 6 figures. Never cheated. My mom isn’t unsatisfied or whatever. She was there at his worst point and lowest point and never left him. They are best friends. So no. They aren’t doomed to fail. All relationships in my family are like this though. My uncles, grandparents. It’s really a new generation thing I think

LowCreddit · 2021-07-28T19:04:40+00:00

A lot of early TRP centered around saving dying marriages. The man has to take to take responsibility though. It's also called hard mode for a reason.

Red_Nishiki · 2021-07-29T02:46:33+00:00

Next April, my wife and I will have been married 30 years.

svenshapiro · 2021-07-28T12:41:17+00:00

HVM will cheat and leave. HVW will struggle to remain satisfied with anything but a very HVM with his long term game on point.

average and below average men and LVM will beta out relatively early on, leading to loss of attraction by female...

And LVM with LVW will eventually become unsatisfied, or both will become unsatisfied, and eventually lead to mutual attraction loss, and even if they don't cheat or leave, will be miserable long term.

I challenge all of these assumptions.

Provide scientific sources that indicate that these statements are true.

mindsanitizer · 2021-07-28T11:37:17+00:00

My marriage went strong for 20 years. Then we had kids and my wife hit menopause and the sex just dried up. If you never have kids and LTR women younger than yourself it can work.

Gofishingrn · 2021-07-28T14:30:20+00:00

IMO it CAN work with a lot of effort from both. Problem is that everyone wants to play the LTR/marriage lottery thinking they’ll beat the house. TRUTH: They rarely do.

gimpgirl555 · 2021-07-28T11:00:18+00:00

20 years of monogamy, frequent and mostly satisfying sex, no infideltiy from either side, 15 years of that being co-habitation.

Is this psychologically and biologically possible?

No. Everyone needs sexual variety, especially men. You either give them variety or they leave you and get their own.

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Ecl1ps3_O · 2021-07-28T13:29:39+00:00

I have seen the relationships I thought most stable falter and crumble. I wouldn’t say there’s NO instance, but it isn’t something I find quantifiable any more.

Teflon08191 · 2021-07-28T14:14:56+00:00

Obviously not. More like a coin flip. Though I'd say the odds are further against a given LTR accomplishing all of the specific things you mentioned.

Starter91 · 2021-07-28T14:48:08+00:00

Eventually yes

ffandyy · 2021-07-28T19:16:23+00:00

So we should be aiming to be low value makes then?

FreierSteinkopf · 2021-07-28T19:44:52+00:00

Monogamous relationships are more sexually satisfied than all other forms of relationships or non-relationships. HVW and HVM both cheat less. A lot of cheating by HVW comes either from self esteem issues or lack of caring from your So and both are addressed in some way by being good looking. There are also statistics for that but these are the reasons that make sense to me. Both HVM and HVW can't be decribed as high value if they cheat. Are LTRs hard to maintain? sure but that doesn't mean it's unrealistic.

Physiologist21 · 2021-07-28T20:52:46+00:00

More or less, pretty much.

Gravel_Roads · 2021-07-28T22:44:46+00:00

Nah, I’ve been with my partner for over 20 years and I feel like I learn new things about them every day, still.

KamuiObito · 2021-07-28T22:47:13+00:00

Yea cuz one of y’all gone get bored relationship are like cars eventually you’ll have to get a new one rather it’s 10/20/30 years or until you die.

midwestufohunter · 2021-07-29T00:49:21+00:00

No healthy adults exist, it’s just uncommon bc we as a society have chosen to pretend our mental and emotional needs don’t exist. Surprisingly people whose needs aren’t met aren’t healthy!

Workaholiconew · 2021-07-29T01:01:43+00:00

wtf did you smoke?

There is without a doubt a possibility for a LTR/marriage to work. Dont believe all the horror stories 30ish percent of relationships which have happy endings.

If you think you are lucky and fit for this life. You are welcomed to try. It is just that most people on the manosphere are risk averse and not fit for relationships. So they choose alternative routes. That is only that.

mimblezimble · 2021-07-29T01:58:43+00:00

If a woman cannot leave with cash and prizes, she will most likely not leave at all.

It is the divorce-rape contract itself that provides the incentive to misbehave. So, never sign it, and you will be fine.

If twenty years down the line, she wants to provide sexual service to another man, or none to you at all, then just cut her loose, and replace her by younger and better version of herself.

As long as she knows that actions have consequences, she will most likely prefer to stay in line. If not, who even cares?

flowerwoven · 2021-07-29T02:35:39+00:00

I'm just confused why you are asking if it's possible when it has happened millions of times.

If the HVM is not satisfied by his woman, is he really high value? Why was he not able to get a woman who satisfies him? If he was high value he'd be able to.

I'm actually not sure what beta out means. Just act like a beta in general? If the woman was attracted to him before, why would she lose attraction to him when he continues his same behavior?

If the LVC were together in the first place, I don't see why them being LV would hurt them later on.

cloudsongs_ · 2021-07-29T03:49:21+00:00

You're not high value if you cheat or cannot find things to do to keep yourself entertained

just_a_place · 2021-07-30T06:55:41+00:00

Yes.

But I wouldn't say doomed to fail but destined to drift apart. Change is the only constant in the universe and people will change over time. It is naive as hell that a relationship will last forever or that people will stay liking each other through the course of time.

TodTheRod01 · 2021-07-31T00:01:46+00:00

HVM arent 100% going to cheat...but lets be real, if you are a tall, good looking ambitious and successful guy....history (even recent) has shown women are more than okay letting you run around.

what is HVW? High value woman? by logic a "high value woman" has become so because she is married to an HVM....her value is established as high because a HVM married her...aka she was able to attract and keep said man.

aquamanouttawater · 2021-07-28T11:47:12+00:00

Only those that are built on resource exploitation. If both parties are “in lust,” it’ll last as long as a more attractive party doesn’t come into the picture. They’re loyal to opportunity, thats it.

techr0nin · 2021-07-31T04:50:14+00:00

The secret to LTR — be mutually attractive, stay healthy, have kids, continue to accumulate assets, and build happy memories.

Title	Are ALL LTR's doomed to fail
Author	Artistic_Guest4386
Upvotes	20
Comments	205
Date	July 28, 2021 10:30 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ot77w8/are_all_ltrs_doomed_to_fail/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-all-ltrs-doomed-to-fail.795339 https://theredarchive.com/post/795339

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