Why do men take SUCH offense to my reserved demeanor?

Platipus6 · 2021-08-16T11:54:54+00:00

They're dead on the inside and want instant gratification. It would never be enough. Your smile would never be big enough. Your enthusiasm not loud and authentic enough. Your laugh at their shitty jokes not genuine enough. They're garbage and don't deserve your energy or any kind of sparkle from you, and they know it.

They're seeking a woman who can fake it without them catching on she's faking it.

the-worst- · 2021-08-16T12:52:47+00:00

I've had guys I had crushes on in high-school message me and apologize for not talking to me/having a bad attitude toward me because of me being introverted and reserved around others (I was masking my ADHD so desperately back then, which ment I barely spoke and spent most of my free time reading)... which they mistook for me being stuck up or full of myself.

My mema experienced similar things as well because she's more reserved.

Insecure people will see reservation as being rude, stuck up, and entitled. And it seems it doubles as a great unintentional vetting strategy.

pathalienation · 2021-08-16T11:48:49+00:00

You ended with “it’s almost like a negging technique and I’m criticized for this constantly.”

Change that to: “it’s an awesome, empowered learned behavior, and it works 100% at drawing out hidden but extreme male entitlement and misogyny.”

Zeniite · 2021-08-16T12:56:14+00:00

What I’m hearing is these men want unboundaried women who are easily swayed by their complaints about you not being more talkative and smiley. I come from a culture where people are more reserved (note: not necessarily introverted) and we don’t do small talk or ask people how their day is unless we truly mean it. We have a saying that silence is golden and talking is silver, and my mom even likes to say that smart people keep their mouths shut while stupid people open their mouths and show how stupid they are - which reminds me of the men you mentioned. Just remember that all these issues with men causing a fuss about you not smiling or giving them clues that you’re totally 100% into them is about their male entitlement - not about you doing anything wrong. Years ago when I was bar tending, one man asked me, “Why don’t you talk to me? Did your dad beat you or something?” when I wouldn’t be chatty with him (I promptly informed him to leave after that btw). The other day at work, a guy I have been avoiding went out of his way to come tell me, “Hi Smiley” when I had been stocking product and very much NOT smiling (I reported him and he got spoken to). I’ve had many people comment that I’m hard to read, mostly men who are sexually interested in me, and women who tell me they initially thought I was stand offish or stuck up, but later realized it wasn’t the case after getting to know me.

I think the important thing to consider is would you even want these kinds of people in your life if they demand and feel entitled to you being insincere in your demeanor? For me personally, no. I’m proud of my culture and how it influenced my demeanor even though American culture values talking and extroversion far more. I still manage to find “my people” among Americans

keep_my_stuff · 2021-08-16T13:52:09+00:00

Men asking for stuff for free again, and getting pissed when they're not getting it.

highoncatnipbrownies · 2021-08-16T12:00:45+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Professional-Ad-457 · 2021-08-16T12:22:45+00:00

It’s negging. For him to say that he saw how scared and nervous of him you are is impolite and meant to make you feel even more uncomfortable. The last OLD guy who said this to me (as soon as he met me on the first date) followed this up with lots of clumsy wannabe manipulative phrases and behaviour and it became clear through conversation that he thought of women as ‘other’ and a puzzle that needed to be cracked. The vast majority of men we meet through OLD have skewed views of women. I am also introverted and like you on a date, and I think it works in our favour as these ‘any hole will do’ pussy-seeking guys weed themselves out when they don’t see fawning, loud, ‘up for it’ behaviour. They realise early on they won’t get sex easily and bail, thus doing us a favour.

After my LVX who always had to be the loud centre of attention, laughing at everything, had to be loved and noticed by everyone in any room or situation because he had such low self-esteem, I find cool, calm, low-key energy in a man EXTREMELY attractive now! It reeks of confidence and high self-esteem and your next HVM (shld you find your unicorn) will also love that trait in you.

ExistentialJelly · 2021-08-16T13:46:15+00:00

How else can they use your weaknesses against you if you don't expose everything right away? They are in a hurry to get through the labour of getting to know someone and want to get to the good stuff already.

The right people actually spend time getting to know you.

Inside_Inside_8610 · 2021-08-16T12:46:46+00:00

Women are meant to be "approachable". Why do you think that "RBF" has the word "bitch" in it? It's because women not being smiley and happy is really threatening to men. They are on ultra alert for any signs of your displeasure or if you ignore them. Men call women attention whores, but in fact men are far far worse, dangerously so.

I speak as a reserved, introverted woman and come from a culture where both men and women are expected to be extroverted, but only women get criticised for being so.

Having said that, if a guy starts giving you grief for your temperament, you know that he can be dismissed soon after.

mirrormirror114 · 2021-08-16T15:27:29+00:00

100%. I feel like a lot of guys say they want girls that are “bubbly”. To me this means they want girls that are constantly looking happy, smiling, and will never get angry with them or show a full range of emotions. The adjective bubbly just really pisses me off bc you’d never hear a guy being described as bubbly. They’re allowed to show negative emotions while girls have to be these facades of positivity and kindness all of the time. I feel like that’s what this guy you met expects.

Pornruinedsociety · 2021-08-16T11:41:50+00:00

They want you to fawn all over them and treat them as a prize and be seductive right of the bat.

arnezuara · 2021-08-16T12:05:07+00:00

These men gauge for vulnerable, easily-manipulated women. You’re not that, so they hate it. Keep doing what you’re doing.

queenofswordsxxx · 2021-08-16T11:57:40+00:00

When you’re introverted, you’re hard to read/ catch/ manipulate. When you’re extroverted, you’re a desperate/ thirsty slut.

There’s no way we can win. Just don’t play the game.

shockingupdate · 2021-08-16T14:09:12+00:00

These are LVM who want instant connection with a woman with zero effort. If a person expects you to look happy and uninhibited about everything on the first date, they’ll expect that for the entire relationship. So don’t take it personal! They’re internalizing every little look and gesture you make and assuming it’s about them, which is pure entitlement and insecurity on their part. Not your problem, though!

Hitflyover · 2021-08-16T14:16:43+00:00

I’ve had men take offense to me being reserved in the workplace even. Hell, just on the street. “Smile, girl!” And they will literally sound irritated when they say it, as if it were a threat. They won’t even be smiling when they tell me to smile.

MsWriteNow07 · 2021-08-16T12:22:15+00:00

I’m very similar. I’m extremely introverted and I’m quiet and withdrawn with strangers. But I’m quite bubbly and at ease with my own family and friends. Men who have seen me in that atmosphere first actually get offended I don’t treat them the same as my family and best friends! “You’re not really this quiet! Be like you were before!” It comes down to two things. First of all, men are boring. They expect women to be free entertainment to them. If you are reserved, it means that they can’t hide behind your personality to mask their own lack of an interesting one. Once I stopped forcing myself to make conversation and say interesting things, I realized how little most men actually have to say. They are used to women carrying all the conversational water on the date. Second, you have to realize 99.9% of everything men do on a day is aimed at getting six. To men, you talking more means you’re comfortable, comfort=intimacy, intimacy= sex. They want to force a false feeling of intimacy so they’re more likely to get sex. Every man who has been genuine in his pursuit of me doesn’t mind that it takes time to get to know me. Any guy who has all these artificial rules, like he wants a woman to come in smiling or he expects a certain attitude right away is just a lazy bum who is out to use women and doesn’t want to do any work to get to know them.

_RustInPiece_ · 2021-08-16T12:45:32+00:00

I wrote a post about this some time ago. It's about his ego. You being introverted makes him sweat because he is used to getting his ego pampered with attention (to him noice equals attention). And even when he has your full attention (obviously, you literally made time for a date with him) it makes him panic how he has to put in some effort.

Yes, you noticed correctly: His reactions are attempts of negging. See, for him you were there but not "there", even though you sat right in front of him. Your silence echoes like hammers in the head of insecure people. You gave him less but in his world it felt "too much". See it as a form of cognitive dissonance he experienced: "How can atjissilent person be louder and more present than an extroverted one. Suspicious. ObViOuSlY that has to be her, not me." He negged you because he thought you were being "too confident" for not pampering his his ego with your words. So he felt that he had to take you down a peg or two. You made that much of an impression that he felt the need to change his dating profil! He is LV because he choses to run away from his insecurities so no loss.

Edit: I want you to know that it gets better. They will approach you less often when they know that you are unapologetic yourself. They will glare at you from afar at best but when you look back they won't be able to maintan eye contact and look away. Like you are burning their eyes with your presence. It makes the fuckboi fidget. Don't let them gaslight you. No need to force yourself to be an extrovert when you simply aren't. Trust me, your personality has it's perks. Toxic men and women - dates as well as friends - will stay away from you.

shljock · 2021-08-16T14:18:39+00:00

You have every right to be as open or closed to people as you wish. In fact, I'd say someone who's extremely bubbly, smiley and complementing a complete stranger left and right either is extremely privileged and has never experienced abuse (unlikely) or is in a fawning trauma response or is manipulative themself. None of which is what a functional adult would want.

"You are not giving me your full smile cause you're shy." Imagine the audacity and patronizing. What are you supposed to say to that? Except bye and do let the door hit ya. You dodged a bullet. 🙏

Constant-Wanderer · 2021-08-16T14:44:26+00:00

It’s not that they don’t understand the concept of taking a while to warm up to someone, it’s that they want you to validate them as so unique and special that you make an exception for them.

Everyone wants to be the main character of a rom com, but no one wants to actually put in the effort to BECOME that guy who women swoon over.

Emergency-Feed8216 · 2021-08-16T15:05:53+00:00

Telling a woman they just met to change/alter/adjust anything about herself is the behavior of a john, not a date.

gcthwy · 2021-08-16T12:23:35+00:00

They want you to be extroverted and outgoing because they assume that means you’ll be less cautious and easier for them to manipulate. They also have no emotional intelligence and think that if you’re not super expressive about liking them right away it means you don’t like them, they refuse to pick up on subtle cues and body language.

throwawayaway388 · 2021-08-16T14:47:26+00:00

Yes. I'm also reserved and feel as though I could write the exact same post.

Men are slowly waking up to the fact that women can provide for themselves and quite simply don't need them. Now they actually have to behave in a way that attracts and keeps us. They have to be likable, attentive, and considerate which requires too much effort and "investment" (lest their fragile egos become crushed by rejection).

Cel_Gabe · 2021-08-16T18:03:50+00:00

As a person whose been called reserved, stuck up, stand offish, ice queen etc, trust me, the right person would appreciate your personality.

Change for no one but yourself.

No one deserves your smile.

karabnp · 2021-08-16T14:10:28+00:00

As one who is an introvert as well, yet, can easily be chatty/open when in the mood, TRUST ME, they’ll judge you for that, too.😏 You really can’t win.

Oh, you have to act like you don’t want sex, too. (Even when you do.) Because ~heaven forbid~ you desire/want pleasure, as well.

extragouda · 2021-08-16T14:18:42+00:00

Yes. I get this. I think online dating is abysmal for people who are introverted or reserved. It's hard enough to find dates in real life if you are introverted or reserved but it seems like OLD makes it worse. Because while you will find dates, the dates you'll find want an instant connection. OLD is dating for lazy people, which is weird because of the effort it takes to actually find a relationship on OLD: it's a numbers game... lots of duds just to find one decent human. I also think a lot of people use OLD for hookups even if they say they aren't there for that. So they want instant familiarity and sex after three dates, which to me is like a hookup.

People like this are not really interested in you, they just want to date to get their ego massaged (and maybe other parts of their body too). It's almost like swiping on their phone is like sticking a coin in a vending machine and instantly getting a can of Coke. Swipe = instant intimacy. But we are not cans of Coke.

ButterfliesHurricane · 2021-08-16T11:50:33+00:00

I’m going to hazard a wild guess (not on OLD) but do they take smile for validation and are these men just looking for a quick nookie and really not that interested in knowing the real you? Happy to be corrected here but that was my first thought.

I am an introvert too but due to my work and having to interact with people I don’t know all the time, I put up a brave (I guess you can say smiley/friendly) front but in the context of a first date, I would be reserved/in observation mode too.

These men sound rude and entitled. Let the trash take itself out. Chin up!

modernmedusaa · 2021-08-16T16:38:37+00:00

I think this is a man attempting to break down your boundaries sis

I’m not a shy person at all but yes I will GET UNCOMFORTABLE when a man is groping my legs 20minutes into the date talking about how he ‘doesn’t judge women who sleep with him fast’

The problem is he’s depraved and looking to have sex he feels entitled to as fast as possible but I am not

Lol when men know you aren’t feeling them or aren’t sure they will make out you’re shy or some bullshit

It’s classic pushy pick up artist nonsense....they’re wanting to fast track into the touching intimate stuff. And they’re annoyed you’re not letting them - in fact you may be repulsed.

He was definitely trying to neg you cos he felt butt hurt you weren’t all over him worshipping him

Even the most extrovert women are somewhat introverted /reserved when vetting men they barely know

Just know when a man calls you ‘shy’ on an early date- he’s manipulative, impatient & just wants sex. He expects you to spill everything so he can manipulate you faster.

Remember some of these men are petty, depraved, entitled and constantly going on fail dates...I feel like some just go on the date treating it like a joke bc of that. They don’t care what you think of them unless they’re getting sex straight away.

They have fragile egos bc their last 13 dates went bad and so anything can set their insecurity off.

They sit there with the expectation they deserve instant ego stroked, praise & sex.

Like this isn’t a date to decide whether you even like them or have chemistry.

Dating is NOT a commitment to anything. You’re interviewing candidates. Men need to UNDERSTAND this.

If a crappy job candidate turns up saying ‘ok great interview when do I start bc I don’t have time for messing around & I think you should stop interviewing others for me’....the interviewer would think lol wtf this person is delusional & arrogant. And throw their CV straight in the bin. Because they assumed they won them over, were entitled to the job & didn’t read the room.

Literally anything can set them off. But in most cases they said some rude bullshit, acted awkwardly or negged you that turned you off, but they want to act brand new when that has consequences.

I’ve never understood men getting so bold, rude & entitled with women who barely know them, lol. There’s no obligation for me to see them again. It’s very easy for me to walk if you pull a wrong move. Because this is a first impression. If they can’t make a good first impression- I don’t want to know. They’re just out for pick mes.

If they don’t get instant sex and admiration they get petty and start trying to knock you down or make you insecure....so that you’ll react & start chasing them.

It tends to have the opposite effect and you’re not in a rush to go on another date again.

highoncatnipbrownies · 2021-08-16T12:32:53+00:00

Anytime I have experienced "instant attraction" it has turned out to be a highly manipulative guy. I'm not 100% sure why, possibly they were mirroring me and I didn't catch it, or maybe they made the moment through some actual skill with PUA technique's. But generally that explosive hit it off thing tends to be false for me.

Anyone else experience that as a red flag or something similar?

teaandcoffee717 · 2021-08-16T17:17:17+00:00

Regardless of whether you are an introvert/extrovert, when you lean back with your energy it forces man to be in his masculine and do the work in trying to court you. This dude wanted to blame you and make you seem like you were uninterested/scared/shy to make himself feel less bad about not being able to take the lead.

I'm an introvert as well but I find men who are comfortable in their masculine energy actually find it attractive that I'm laid back and don't try to hard for their attention. I've also had extroverted guys more nervous and quiet while I'm the one having to take the lead because they don't know how to handle any type of female attention period. You just have to find the right guy who is balanced in his energy so your dates have more harmony.

NinjaCynic · 2021-08-16T12:16:33+00:00

"Why do men [insert LVM shit]?" is easily answered. Because scrotes do scrote things, and your valuable time and energy are best spent on more important matters.

Don't change a thing, sis, it's clearly working!!

minkeyaye · 2021-08-16T16:31:43+00:00

He lacks the emotional intelligence to pick up on your subtle social cues. He needs you to spell it out for him with obvious "big smile" and "loud laughter" cues because deciphering human emotion is too hard for him, talking to a shy person takes too much work and/or social skills that he never learned. A pretty big red flag if you ask me.

mexchick17 · 2021-08-16T16:07:33+00:00

Welp, just reading this made me realize I'm way too happy and outgoing on first dates.. If I had been more reserved when I met my baby daddy narc NVX, I'm sure he wouldn't have continued to pursue me.. It's a good way to weed out the narcs. And I have noticed I often got that pressure to smile and be open lest I be called a stuck up b*tch :)

ilike2snap · 2021-08-16T19:32:41+00:00

I’ve been negged as being “too quiet” my entire life by both men and women. Being reserved seems to make everyone around you uncomfortable and I have never understood what they expect me to be shouting about upon first meeting, at work, in class, etc. I have stopped taking offense to it and started accepting that this is how people receive me even though it’s not how I see myself. If it’s a problem for them, it’s their problem, not mine.

Gambit12345 · 2021-08-16T17:35:11+00:00

Being introverted is a good thing. I am introverted but can be outgoing if I want. This guy I went on a couple dates with asked if my love language wasn’t touch, because he was already holding my hand butI wasn’t all over him. I was like my love language is all of them. The guy took offense to the fact that I didn’t wanna sleep over after only a month of dating. He interpreted it as him being unworthy when I said I need time to get comfortable. Scrotes like that don’t even give you time to develop feelings for them. It’s better to be cautious than go all in. I’ve always regretted moving too fast but never too slow. That scrotes facade didn’t fade until a month in when he was being really impatient for hooking up. Dropped him like a hot rock

Maude2010 · 2021-08-16T22:56:13+00:00

Sorry, I misread your post and realize now that this isn’t relevant. It’s more about independence and introversion in general than being reserved on actual dates. I’ll leave it anyway because dudes suck whenever we’re not behaving the way they want.

A guy got himself thrown out of the resort we were both staying at because he made a scene every time he saw me sitting and minding my own business. At the pool, it was “Why are you just sitting there reading?” In the dining room, “there’s that girl again!” At the bar, he started screaming that it just wasn’t right that I was there alone.

That’s the worst example I have, but fairly often if I’m out at a coffee shop or something, I’ll hear two guys talking to each other about me loud enough for me to hear them.

I like to get out of the house and do stuff. I’ll do it whether I have a partner or friend to go with or not. 🤷🏻‍♀️

bombas- · 2021-08-17T00:04:14+00:00

Oh, they just feel rejected. And we all know how rejected men behave.

Men aren’t great at being able to tell when a woman actually likes them. Men with less confidence and social skills really read into the smiling, laughing etc.

I’m an extrovert, I tend to be chatty, I tend to smile and laugh when talking to people. I can’t tell you how many man have confronted me about how they “know” I am like…secretly in love with them or some nonsense. These are literally people whose names I forgot, who I just talked to once or twice.

So apparently there are lots of dumbass men running around thinking “smiling = desperate to fuck me” & “not smiling = hates my guts & throwing that in my face”

miwamus · 2021-08-16T15:57:57+00:00

A guy that's looking for a "a big smile" is looking for a golden retriever, not a woman.

Elegaunt · 2021-08-17T01:47:53+00:00

A LVM will try to fast-forward you and coerce you into performing behavior that they find open and comforting, even if the LVM himself is not providing openness or comfort.

The impatience is a tell: he knows that if you hold out, and go at your own pace, he can't get sex out of you. Because he'd rather fuck you and force you into pretending like you are into him rather than creating actual intimacy, safety, and love.

EurasianEmpress · 2021-08-16T15:49:07+00:00

Only predators-male and female-complained about my being reserved or “too serious.”

Muffcakelord · 2021-08-16T21:50:08+00:00

At least it works as an excellent repellent!

I know an introvert when i see one and i know what these kind of men feel. At least for me i get the thought that "they seem like they won't like me", and that's ok with me - it makes me less nervous because then i know they're not pretending to like me. If that makes sense.

For entitled people, like most men, not being liked feels like an insult. It's that easy. But you don't want an entitled man, you want a man who respect the fact that not everyone fancy him, and that respect the people who don't fancy him (until proven LV)

lolmemberberries · 2021-08-16T21:47:36+00:00

I'm a reserved person, especially when I haven't gotten to know someone well. I've received negative comments about it from men and women alike, but only from people who are insecure. They see you aren't easily read and therefore, they cannot extract external validation from you and/or manipulate you with love bombing behavior. People who are self-confident have never been bothered by my demeanor.

ThatIntention1 · 2021-08-17T04:52:50+00:00

I’m the exact same as you and I’ve come across two types of men:

a) the ones who hate my introverted demeanor bc they want someone who laughs at their jokes or gives them constant validation or reaffirms anything they talk about

b) the sickos who love my introverted demeanor bc they think I’m someone who is “submissive, docile and agreeable” who won’t call them out on their bs

gcfemtastic · 2021-08-17T10:55:35+00:00

They want performance.

They want women to perform open childish trust without having to earn said demean genuinely.

Same with sex. They want the performance of excitement and porn style arousal, doesn't matter if it's actually fake as long as they can believe the performance.

Noemie_Mathilde · 2021-08-17T04:12:39+00:00

The men's crticism is pure negging and they are losers.

coolestgirlyoueverme · 2021-08-17T01:46:13+00:00

They are never satisfied. I'm extroverted and have been told that I'm too loud, or talk too much by lvm. They just want to neg either way.

Weeeeezh · 2021-08-19T07:41:19+00:00

They are so used to get treated with that customer-service-behaviour by women that they think something is wrong with you if you don't cater to them. So many men have called me hateful and evil for just being quiet and not laughing at their jokes if I don't find them funny (but just mildly smiling). It's pathetic, really. They want that fake, childish, bubbly behaviour so they feel superior or something, super creepy.

2021-08-16T13:42:51+00:00

Sounds like you being reserved is a good way to filter out men who are looking for a manic pixie dream girl. Even if you were shy or nervous, it’s weird for them to point that out to you like it’s a bad thing.

Title	Why do men take SUCH offense to my reserved demeanor?
Author	kinnsao
Upvotes	963
Comments	84
Date	August 16, 2021 11:35 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/p5e9ls/why_do_men_take_such_offense_to_my_reserved/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/why-do-men-take-such-offense-to-my-reserved.982437 https://theredarchive.com/post/982437

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