Always with the double standards.

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[–]psycho_admin 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Is that actually still considered a lot?

Are you a troll or just trying to show what a big e-penis you have? If you are being honest then I recommend you look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Or if you are too lazy to read and just want the summary:

U.S. real (inflation adjusted) median household income was $51,939 in 2013 versus $51,759 in 2012, essentially unchanged.

So 100K is double the US median household income so yes 100K a year is considered a lot.

Edit to add: Your edit and replies to others make it sound as if you come from money and you are too idiotic to put yourself in the shoes of others. Just because you have the chance to make Y+X amount per year you are assuming no one else can think that Y by itself (100K in this case) is a lot of money because you will be making more then that. Yes there are people who make more then Y but doesn't mean that there aren't people who think that Y isn't a large quantity of money and would be more then happy to marry someone just because they make Y money which in this case also happens to be DOUBLE the national median household income.

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[–]psycho_admin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are a fucking idiot. Again you are talking about your fucking self and only looking at the world through your retarded eyes and not looking at anything else. Your situation means jack fucking shit since the second line rules you out:

Whether you want to be marrying someone like that is a whole other story.

You aren't fucking interested so you aren't looking for the women that would marry you just because you have a lot of money.

And as far as the world doesn't work that way, please wake the fuck up you ignorant cunt. Never heard of mail order brides? Never known someone who has gone to a poor area and came back with a bride (for example GI's who go over to Korea or the Philippines)? Never heard of gold diggers? For fucks sake there are sites dedicated for wealthy men to reach out for women who want a sugar daddy:

http://sugardaddie.com/

If you wanted a woman and were making over 100K there are plenty of ways to get one that would be easy for you to do if you wanted to. Since you don't want to then the statement doesn't fucking apply to you just like the fucking conditional statement that follows it states.

[–]Qapiojg-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are a fucking idiot. Again you are talking about your fucking self and only looking at the world through your retarded eyes and not looking at anything else.

No, actually i'm pointing at myself as a contradiction to their hypothesis.

You aren't fucking interested so you aren't looking for the women that would marry you just because you have a lot of money.

No, this is nowhere near the basis I was speaking off of. I'm stating that women aren't attracted to me, adding money into that doesn't change anything, therefore money will not rectify a situation like that in the way they are attempting to say it will.

The obvious sentiment behind their posts was that women are attracted to money above height or other measures; which in my case just isn't true.

Thank you for all of the profanity, I hadn't been on the internet much today so I hadn't gotten my fill of it. It was needed.

[–]psycho_admin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm stating that women aren't attracted to me, adding money into that doesn't change anything, therefore money will not rectify a situation like that in the way they are attempting to say it will.

Go to the Philippines and let them know you are a rich American. Lets see how attracted to you that they are. Or go to a poor area and start talking to some strippers. Again lets see how attracted to you they are. Again cunt you aren't fucking looking so you won't get the results they are talking about. Since you aren't looking then the statement doesn't fucking apply to you just like the conditional statement says.

Again stop looking through your fucking life and look at the world in fucking general.

Oh and if you haven't had your fill of profanity I recommend Limp Dick or I'm guessing your favorite band icp.

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Holy shit someone needed to say this. Sometimes we get in this rut where we feel so fucking sorry for ourselves that we make ourselves out to be a victim or we just villainize others for the sake of villainizing them.

Height is the only actual double standard that was mentioned.
Penis size is massively irrelevant. Unless your penis size physically makes you incapable of performing in bed, few women cite this as anything more than a "nice to have." Most don't care, and neither should we.
Wealth is hard to say. In terms of marriage, the deck is stacked against the man, and you can be certain that this fact has been taken advantage of. But to what extent? We hear horror stories because they're newsworthy, but in terms of frequency of active gold-diggers (i.e. marry only for wealth, I'm not sure it's as prevalent as we're led to believe.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I remember celebrating my first job offer with a big firm, and I got some drinks at a fancy bar. A woman who was probably 2 years younger than me started chatting me up. She was a new law student. I was into her until it dawned on me that she was asking me financial status questions. She ended with "What car do you drive?" Yup. So I answered "a 1994 Toyota Tercel" and she literally quit talking to me and walked away without saying anything, spilling her drink as she looked for another dude in a suit.

I just think that it's not one of these "double standard dealbreakers" mentioned in this thread. Feel free to disagree, downvote me, and call me a feminist for disagreeing with you on one issue (it's been done here before). I simply fail to see that wealth-seeking gold diggers is an epidemic. If anything, women are attracted to wealth because it's an indicator of confidence, outgoing personality, and leading an interesting life.

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How many job interviews did you land/fail because of your height? I'd think NBA Player or Horse Jockey would be the only discriminating positions.

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[–]theskepticalidealist 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

But, I'm pretty sure men think much more about penis sizes than women.

Well... sort of. I was about to reply to his post and say he is only half right about penis size... Women do shame men for having small penises, and you can't really do anything about it. But its really more of a problem for men that are embarrassingly small. But in regards to height, you can be considered "short" (unless you're in Asia and then everyone is shorter) if you're less than 5"8 and in some places even taller. I'm considered short and I'm 5"7, but its not like I'm 5"2 or less. The main difference though is almost universally women want a man that is at least taller than they are as opposed to being tall in comparison to other men, which is why I know I've at least got that box ticked if I'm hoping to attract a girl if she is a few inches shorter than I am. Otherwise I know that's going to be a mark against me, at best neutral, because it certainly isn't going to be a positive. Women however can be pretty much whatever body shape they like and you will find entire groups of men that are specifically attracted to whatever it is. Fat, skinny, big tits, tiny virtually no tits, gigantic swallow you tits, old, short, tall, etc. And they aren't settling, they genuinely prefer these traits. You can find them talking about it on porn websites, they will pay big money for sexual services like webcam performances and escorts when they could pick any other woman for the same money.

[–]white_crust_delivery 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]theskepticalidealist 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

While I will agree that there is more diversity in men's attraction to different types of women, I'd say that there are some general societal trends that tend to be quite unrealistic and not very accommodating towards most female body types in the same way that there can be unrealistic expectations of men.

I'm glad you recognise the former, since it makes the latter quite ironic. Despite women being able to be found attractive pretty much no matter what, we are okay with them being convinced that they aren't rather than slapping some rhetorical sense into them. I have known what you'd consider below average attractive women that if I had had their experiences I'd think I was the biggest fucking stud on the planet. Yet they don't see it, they still believe they aren't attractive because they don't look like the magazines. Are they stupid or is society just okay with them believing they are victims despite all the evidence to the contrary? I WISH there were a demographic of women that were specifically attracted to my "flaws", but there aren't. Yet, I'm meant to feel like I have it better and easier than women do, because men are claimed to be so much more shallow than women are. The evidence if anything points to the opposite being the case.

It's men that have a much narrower path in what they must be to be considered attractive, and that the female's "unrealistic body type" isn't actually that unrealistic. The "unrealistic" body type for women is basically slim and toned. If a man looked like this he would be considered boyish, unmasculine, and child-like. To become slim and toned means cutting out the crap, or at least limiting it, with some light exercise. For men that want to get that "unrealistic body" they have to have a serious diet plan and spend a lot of time in the gym months of intensive training or years with less intensive workouts. IOW its not just losing weight and toning up a bit. Its losing weight and packing on muscle and in the right way.

Can we please start telling women to stop telling us they have a hard time, when they don't? Yes, many women might not get on the cover of a magazine or a perfume ad, but that doesn't mean they will find it hard to find men that will find them attractive. Most men aren't usually trying to compete with the hottest men on the planet, they are more realistic, they just want to be attractive. Women already have that, but it isnt enough. They compare themselves constantly to the top, that is why they say they are unhappy. They need a reality check and realise how good they actually have it, and they also need to stop blaming men for something that's the opposite of what they think it is.

[–]white_crust_delivery 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Its more than just being athletic and thin/toned. There's a pretty substantial trend towards a 'feminine figure' with a certain 'hip to waist' ratio and larger breasts. Just because a few random corners of the internet have "BBW" fetishes doesn't mean that there isn't a general societal trend towards a very specific body type.

I think you misunderstand that its not really just going for an occasional jog that allows women to stay in shape and be attractive - women build muscle less easily and our bodies are more inclined to store extra fat (not saying we defy thermodynamics, but hormonal influences can make dieting harder for instance). It also seems like while there's more diversity in male attraction to different body types, there's also a lot more emphasis on body type in women. Men can often get by with other features like being funny or intelligent as a way of compensating for less physical attractiveness in ways that women can't do as easily. men might prefer intelligence/personality, but usually physical standards come first before considering those aspects.

For what its worth, and while I have no way of proving this that I'm comforatble with, I'm not just some fat girl who is bitching about who guys don't like her - I thin and 'athletic' like you describe but I also go to the gym for an hour and half every day and can't remember the last time I had legitimate 'junk food.'

[–]theskepticalidealist 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Its more than just being athletic and thin/toned. There's a pretty substantial trend towards a 'feminine figure' with a certain 'hip to waist' ratio and larger breasts.

Some men might have a top tier "perfect body" preference, but its really not accurate that they would find a woman unattractive if they didn't have that. This is however the take home message you have got from this, and its false. The body type of women the kind of men you're talking about are really attracted to only need to be slim and toned, and not flat chested. They aren't stick thin, but aren't overweight. Having some tone is important because its not just lack of fat, its a tight form. But this is very easy to achieve compared with packing on serious muscle. Frankly the most common thing is not being overweight, not even toned. But that makes it sound like there aren't huge swathes of men that find overweight women attractive.

I think you misunderstand that its not really just going for an occasional jog that allows women to stay in shape and be attractive - women build muscle less easily and our bodies are more inclined to store extra fat (not saying we defy thermodynamics, but hormonal influences can make dieting harder for instance).

This is a predictable response, but I'm saying its easy to get the "unrealistic body" for women in comparison to the "unrealistic body" for men. Its hard to run a marathon in London, but its much harder to run a marathon through a rain forest. By comparison running the marathon in London is easy. I will still see feminists sometimes still reference stick thin anorexic models as the example of the "unrealistic body" women are pushed to have (even though men don't find this attractive), though ironically this is the easiest to achieve as it doesn't demand exercise at all or even a meal plan (just barely eat, there's no accounting for health).

It also seems like while there's more diversity in male attraction to different body types, there's also a lot more emphasis on body type in women.

In regards to a individual mans particular preference, perhaps. If you ignore all the men that actually are interested in you just because the one you're interested in happen to like some other body shape, you can't very well generalise about how men are more concerned with body type, so as to imply its so hard for women if they don't look that way. I know beautiful slim tall women are highly, highly unlikely to be interested in me. I don't claim that their emphasis on my physical qualities is true of "women", but we like to pretend that this is an acceptable interpretation when we switch the genders. I think its at least just as true for men as women, they just manifest slightly differently. And we do this despite the fact that the reality is women have it absurdly easy in comparison when it comes to finding men that will be attracted to them essentially no matter what they look like. Its kind of like rich people complaining about not having enough money, and also usually blaming poor people for it.

Men can often get by with other features like being funny or intelligent as a way of compensating for less physical attractiveness in ways that women can't do as easily. men might prefer intelligence/personality, but usually physical standards come first before considering those aspects.

What might be a surprise to women is that they can do very well with features that are not their body-type as well. Its not just men that can become vastly more attractive depending on their personality. The thing is, women don't need to "get by", and they don't want to just "get by". They don't seem to be happy unless they are able to compete with the most desirable women for the most desirable men. As I said, men don't usually have such unrealistic expectations, they just want to be attractive to more women. If I got the kind of attention the typical below average women gets, I'd think I was a massive stud. If they "got by" like I would interpret "getting by" I'd expect they would end up suicidally depressed going by how bad they will usually say they feel about themselves.

For what its worth, and while I have no way of proving this that I'm comforatble with, I'm not just some fat girl who is bitching about who guys don't like her - I thin and 'athletic' like you describe but I also go to the gym for an hour and half every day and can't remember the last time I had legitimate 'junk food.'

No problem, I don't really care I'm interested in what you're saying rather than making it personal. I'm interested in ideas.

[–]add_problem -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]add_problem0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]theskepticalidealist2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Whenever this topic comes up I get someone saying more or less this. Who knows maybe you're the same person as last time, haha. What I believe you are experiencing is a selective memory. Why is it I think I can justify saying women have it so incredibly easy in the way I have done? Well luckily I have a really nice famous recent example to demonstrate this. Why did so many women support the Hollaback "harassment" video? Why didn't most women just say STFU this is nonsense normal women don't get this much attention? The reason is because they don't consider this to be anything to do with it, or at least the ones that support Hollaback don't.

But for most men, even above average men frankly, if women shouted things like "hey sexy" or "you're hot" or came up to them saying "can I get your number?" in the street this would be such a shock he might just about fall over and wonder if he was in some TV prank. Most men are totally invisible to women, and they need to pluck up a huge amount of courage to overcome rejection to keep going back and trying again until something works. This is why for men the phrase "getting lucky" makes sense, whereas for women it would basically be a joke. The reason (I'd say) most men start lifting weights is to start getting attention from women, they start to feel like as if they are materialising like out of thin air.

For most men if even women they don't find attractive openly showed them they found them attractive it would still be a large confidence boost, but women instead usually see this as annoying, creepy or harassment if men come onto them that they don't like or aren't interested in. This is probably mostly due to it happening so often it becomes irritating, and they complain about why the men they actually like don't hit on them. Women have to actively push men away from them, actively be anti-proactive. For most men, if they are passive, they could very well be single forever. Maybe once in a blue moon the stars will align and a woman might actively pursue them long enough for something to happen, otherwise he better not be passive.

It is a demonstrable fact that even what you'd consider below average women can easily, easily find men that will find them attractive. As I said earlier women can be pretty much whatever body shape they like and you will find entire groups of men that are specifically attracted to whatever it is. Fat, skinny, big tits, tiny virtually no tits, gigantic swallow you tits, old, short, tall, etc. There are entire categories of porn for men with taste in these kind of women. And they aren't settling, they genuinely prefer these traits. You can find them talking about it on porn websites, you can find men will pay big money for sexual services like webcam performances and escort services when they could pick any other woman for the same money. Things like this is objective evidence that demonstrates what I'm talking about without any need for relying on subjective experiences. Bear in mind I am not saying that there isn't a general "look" that a general number of men quite like, just that this isn't the end of the story, not by a long shot.

If you believe its difficult for you as a woman, then the reality is it would difficult in a whole other league if you were male. Its actually no different from the fundamental mistake feminists makes when they look at society, looking at the top tier of men and then presenting that as the experiences of all men. That is why they were able to claim that men created a society for the benefit of men at the expense of women, because they look at the top -1% and then ignore the rest.

[–]add_problem1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But for most men, even above average men frankly, if women shouted things like "hey sexy" or "you're hot" or came up to them saying "can I get your number?" in the street this would be such a shock he might just about fall over and wonder if he was in some TV prank. Most men are totally invisible to women, and they need to pluck up a huge amount of courage to overcome rejection to keep going back and trying again until something works. This is why for men the phrase "getting lucky" makes sense, whereas for women it would basically be a joke. The reason (I'd say) most men start lifting weights is to start getting attention from women, they start to feel like as if they are materialising like out of thin air.

<sup>That</sup> is street harrassment

"It is a demonstrable fact that even what you'd consider below average women can easily, easily find men that will find them attractive."

<sup>Like</sup> I said, you are mistaken. I am pretty sure that I am right on "average" and it has NOT been easy. In my 25 years, there have been two guys to approach me. http://i.imgur.com/ihxLhCY.jpg?1. Until I have the line of wonderful suitors all guys think that the average woman has, I will continue to battle this myth. It's hurtful to those of us who cant figure out why we've been passed over time after time.

[–]theskepticalidealist1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You hand waved everything I wrote...

Did you even bother to read anything past what you quoted? Because it doesn't even seem like you read that far.

Is the Hollaback video a pack of lies or not? Does it represent the average woman's experiences on a typical street or not? I'm sorry but not all of it is harassment, an awful lot of that video is complements and being hit on. Now I understand you are not defining these things this way, but that is my point, men are invisible and would love women to say they are sexy and hot if they're walking down the street or in bars and clubs, and come up to them and ask for their number, yes even if they aren't interested. It's a whole lot nicer to turn down people who want to get to know you better, or just find you sexually desirable, than it is to be invisible and feel worthless. You can't claim that only two men have ever approached you and not also agree that this video is horseshit, so I must assume you do, right?

You can go to places online right now for sex and dating and be instantly SWAMPED by men that are interested in you. You can be completely passive in the expereince. You know why women don't like dating services? Precisely because of this. They like Tinder better because they get to pick the people that they are okay from hearing from. You know how myself and a lot of guys use Tinder? I swipe yes to just about every woman without even looking at the profiles and barely looking at the pictures. This is because I know girls are so picky this is the best way to get a match, I can then look at her profile and see if I want to talk to her. It feels like it completely turns the tables on the whole game, which is almost always women getting to choose, even though it's really just an illusion

Pretty much no matter what a woman looks like she will find men fawning over her online, you just need to look at porn to see that. Men do not get to have the same assurances that their sexuality is appealing. Women can also easily find men that will pay huge money to see them on webcam and sex itself with escort services, pretty much no matter what they look like. If that is a picture of you, you would be huge in this area as you're just want men want. You aren't even overweight or facially unattractive. Men would find it extreamly difficult or next to impossible even if they are really good looking.

You are living in your own world and you should get a reality check. You define as harassment what men would think to be amazing evidence of their attractiveness. You ignore how easy it is online to find someone, that if you behaved with slightly more assertiveness you would get a lot more men coming on to you. And the great part about being female is all you need to do is show that it's safe for men to approach and that you're interested. You can be as much of a passive passenger as you like apart from that. Men can't afford to do any of this. They have to take charge or they'll end up alone every time unless the stars happen to align.

In my opinion you are just not living in the real world and either you really have an ideological aversion to accepting that women have it so incredibly easy in this area, or I expect you have personal issues with self esteem that you feel you are trying to validate. There is a very good reason why we have the PUA industry and dating coaches and services for men to attract women, but no such thing for women. For women the services are trying to bag the "right" man. And you have to ignore all of this.

[–]add_problem1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

LOL it is you who needs to get in the real world if you think that catcalling and porn have much to do with men liking women. It can be that but a lot of the time women feel threatened by catcalls and the sex industry, while it can provide women with money, makes product that is pretty demeaning towards women in terms of content in a lot of cases and is not exactly a safe working environment.

Lets also not forget that sex may not be the end goal for women like it is for men. Given that women are more susceptible to STI and can get pregnant even with great precaution, it's just not as much of a compliment if someone just wants to have sex and won't want to stick around.

Yes, men ask women out in most cases, but you perpetuate this myth that women walk through the world with men asking them out every time they go to the bar, and that's totally not true. It's really harmful for those of us who don't have that experience to read because it becomes plainly obvious that we're not even being seen.

[–]theskepticalidealist1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

LOL it is you who needs to get in the real world if you think that catcalling and porn have much to do with men liking women.

Uh yes it does actually. It shows how much men value womens sexuality, quite literally paying huge amounts of money in a lot of cases to experience it. Where even women who are morbidly obese can carve out a lucrative career catering to the tastes of these men. The fact that you reject this as irrelevant and so nonchalantly shows just how deluded you are. You casually dismiss it with nothing but a wave of your hand even as there exists an impossible to ignore juggernaut of an industry catering specifically to women that want to make themselves more attractive. Evidently women do care about being considered attractive, they care about makeup, they care about their weight, they do care about their clothes. If they didn't this wouldn't be multi-multi-billion dollar companies invested in this.

Yet here you are saying men being attracted to women is irrelevant to how easy women are able to attract men. This is topsey turvey land here.

It can be that but a lot of the time women feel threatened by catcalls and the sex industry

I am talking about what is clearly complimentary, men wouldn't considerer most of those things harassment in that video. They would think they were in the twilight zone where they suddenly became incredibly attractive. Many men will pay through the teeth for romantic services just to get glimmers of their sexual worth being affirmed. PUA is all about catering to men who for the most part lack so much confidence any interest in them is seen as a massive win. And it doesn't matter if women feel threatened by the sex industry. The fact of the matter is my point is still accurate. You can go put on 200 pounds and still make a huge career in the sex industry either as an escort, or other sexual service provider even if its just porn only. A man can't do that, not even if he is a very attractive man, unless he goes gay for pay of course but still will make less than a below average woman could make.

but you perpetuate this myth that women walk through the world with men asking them out every time they go to the bar

No I didn't, actually. This is your continued simplistic caricature of what Im saying, something you keep pushing because apparently your beliefs are too precious.

Lets also not forget that sex may not be the end goal for women like it is for men

Sex isn't the "end" goal for men either, unless you're saying men are actually heartless bastards. Men want love too, believe it or not. What do most relationships start with? Attraction. If you can't attract someone, then you're dead in the water. Its rather a lot easier to find a romantic relationship when the other person finds you sexually appealing. But you dismiss this, arguing that being sexually attractive is irrelevant to finding men that find you attractive... because... feelings...

it's just not as much of a compliment if someone just wants to have sex and won't want to stick around.

At least you know you're sexually appealing. Heard of the hierarchy of needs? Its much like this. Its like a man in a desert that is told he can take a drink whenever he wants will stay sane and not give up longer than a man who is told there won't be any water unless he actively finds some. You already know you are sexually appealing, but a man has to actively make himself appealing in a way women simply don't have to, consequently a man's perception of being sexually attractive is going to be at the forefront of his mind. If you know you cant pay your rent unless you find the money somewhere, that's going to be all you think about. But if you're much richer then you may still have to pay your rent but your mind isn't going to be obsessing over it so much.

You don't seem to realise that the behavior you are referring to actually supports what I'm talking about. If women believed they will be totally invisible to men unless they actively try and make themselves beautiful and confident and be pro-active like men are expected to be and pursue men to feel validated, get knocked back over and over and not give up in exhaustion. If women had to do what most men have to do, then seeing men sexually attracted to you, even if that's all they wanted, will still be quite a confidence boost.

This is precisely why women who are below average or who are older and have lost their looks tend to react differently than young attractive women. For them a man that is attracted to them and showing interest in them is often complimentary, even if that's all it is. Its like the difference between giving a millionaire $100 and giving a homeless guy $100. The homeless guy is going to really appreciate that $100 far more than than rich guy. You're doing the equivalent of saying because the rich guy feels less excited than the homeless guy over receiving the $100, he actually has it at least as bad as the homeless guy.

It's really harmful for those of us who don't have that experience to read because it becomes plainly obvious that we're not even being seen.

Im sure you know as well as I do of women who will rant and rave about how much harassment they get day in day out. Men just wont leave them alone. Men shout at and stop them in the street, in the store, in a bar, on Facebook, on a dating website, at parties, etc, and where for all accounts it often doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense since she is quite average. This is the opposite of what your mindset is. What I just described is someone who sees men harassing her and being attracted to her everywhere, they just won't leave her alone its claustrophobic. Every inflection in a mans voice every move they make around them is in some way a sexual advance or aggression towards them. These women aren't getting more attention and harassment than the women who say it doesn't happen to them, they are just seeing things that aren't there, where someone like you on the other hand refuse to see what IS there and what is abundantly obvious.

[–]JamesLazer 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[+]Kmaza 11 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit. You have a height requirement. And most women want big dicks.

[–]white_crust_delivery -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Dear god, what are you doing browsing downvoted comments on month old threads?

Anyways, if you had bothered to actually read the comment that you purged from the depths of this thread, you would realize that I openly admitted to a height preference in my comment. My point was that in spite of my height preference, I also have preferences that are very much within a person's control like physical fitness and intelligence (which I see as something that can be developed with effort in intellectual pursuits). So, its not like guys who are a 5 ft 5 are forever doomed to be alone forever. And guys also have preferences that are outside of a woman's control - things like hip to waist ratio, skin complexion, breast size, etc. can be improved with effort but are still very much determined by genetics. I'm not really about to judge men for having those preferences, but lets not pretend that everything men find attractive are traits that a woman has completely control over meanwhile women only care about genetically determined traits like height.

On penis size: from my (admittedly very limited) experience, its not nearly as important as most guys think it is. I won't say that I don't care at all, but generally I've found that a penis can very definitely be too big to a point of being uncomfortable or even painful (i'm a pretty petite person). Despite what porn would lead you to believe, you don't need to be 6 ft 4 with an 12 inch cock in order to satisfy women. In fact, sometimes I think men are more preoccupied with how big their penises are than women are.

Edit: I couldn't help but to browse your comment history - it seems like your a guy who is self conscious about his height and how well endowed he is. You literally have pages of comments bitching about how shallow all women are. Some free advice (that you'll probably ignore): rather than getting pissy/misogynistic/calling women cunts, why don't you actually try to improve yourself and make yourself more attractive (exercise, develop your own personality/interests, etc.). You might find that your lack of success with women isn't actually because of your height, but rather because you're misogynistic whiny asshole. If you spent half as much time improving yourself and actually talking to women as you did bitching about how all women hate short men, you might actually have some success with women.

[+]Kmaza 11 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Bitch, please. You're just another shallow heightist, just like most other women are. You care more about height, looks and penis size than you do about personality, so don't give me that bullshit about height not having an influence on whether a guy is successful with women or not. You pathetic cunts aren't willing to give short guys a fair chance, so keep your lies to yourself.

[–]white_crust_delivery -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+]Kmaza 11 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Funny to hear that coming from the stupid and ignorant cunt who started by calling me a "misogynistic whiny asshole".

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

[–]white_crust_delivery -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]Kmaza 11 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

You're lucky that you're a woman. No matter how ugly a woman is or how terrible her personality is, there will always be a guy who is willing to be in a relationship with her or just have casual sex with her. Men don't have the same "luxury". Men aren't as shallow as women are. Not to mention that women can get their "flaws" fixed, but men can't change their height and penis size, and we all know how important those two traits are to women.

And you obviously don't know what the word "misogynist" means.

[–]white_crust_delivery-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Actually there's pretty well documented evidence that men seem to care more about physical attractiveness than women do. Women tend to be attracted to traits like funniness, intelligence, etc. as a substitute for atttactiveness, whereas men tend to see those things as add ons but don't care if she isn't already attractive.

Sure, it's easier for an average looking woman to get sex. But, I bet it's equally hard, if not harder, for a women to go out and pick up a sexual partner who is actually willing to invest effort into making sure she also has an orgasm. That's the difference. Once me 'get' sex it's almost guaranteed that they will have an orgasm. Women have to gamble with that notion, which makes sex a less desirable goal in and of itself.

So tell me, how do you reconcile "not being a misogynist" with your opinion that all women are pathetic cunts? I define a misogynist as someone who hates women, and that sounds like quite the hateful generalization.

[–]Kmaza2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women are shallower than men. I don't care what some old and flawed studies show, when anyone who opens their eyes and observes how men and women act, will see that women are a lot shallower than men. Hell, most women screen out men based on something as ridiculous as height, before having even talked with them. It doesn't get much shallower than that.

Men are not guaranteed an orgasm during sex. They are almost guaranteed an ejaculation. Ejaculation and getting an orgasm are not the same thing for men. And getting an orgasm isn't even the point in this discussion: it's getting sex. Not to mention that many women love to say that sex is still good even if she doesn't cum.

I don't hate women. I just hate heightists and size-queens. It's not my fault that most women are at least one of those two things. Most women despise short men and poorly endowed men, so I don't see the problem in despising heightists and size-queens.

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no one thinks they have free time. come on.

People working 2 jobs, or one job and being a single parent, or working a full time job and going to school, often do not have significant free time.

you don't need to run to lose weight. do body exercises indoors.

This is a valid point, but only a counterargument to one of a plethora of contributing factors.

cheap, healthy food isn't always delicious. salad/eggs/etc are cheap. you can't lose weight and be a glutton.

Food. Deserts.

For a whole lot of poor folks, going to the grocery store means a bus ride both ways, and winds up taking 2-3 hours that they just don't have. Cooking said items also takes a not insignificant amount of time, and many poor people frankly just don't have even basic cooking skills, so learning those is yet another hurdle.

i'm not sure what you're referring to here.

Untreated depression is the big one - I'm guessing you don't have the sort of personal experience or empathy to really understand how ludicrous it is to expect someone with untreated clinic depression to regularly force themselves to exercise.

More salient to the argument than any of these things, though - I can just as easily say you should use your free time to get a second job and/or forgo all but the basics of life so you can save up to get height increasing surgery.

If you are spending money on having fun, or spending your time not working to save money to get the surgery - then the surgery being expensive is just an excuse for being short.

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Cruise is relatively short for Hollywood. Pitt really isn't which is why you don't find his height being made fun of like Cruise. As you said and as I said the few short men that are found really attactive either hide their height (eg. Prince, or Cruise and in different ways), or they are widely superstar famous with other highly desirable masculine qualities. Tall is still masculine but short is unmascluline. It's also worth understanding that there's being short in relation to other men, and being short in relation to an individual woman. You might be short on average, but the woman you're interested in might be still shorter than you so it's much less of a negative and you're okay. So for example, as I am 5"7 I can attract women far easier when they are shorter than I am and I see a noticeable increase in attraction with women towards me when they are about 5"5 and shorter. For women taller than me, its so awkwardly difficult its not worth bothering as you're starting out with a handicap. Even being the same height is pushing it, many women say they want a man that is at least as tall as they are, when she is wearing heels. So in the case of being the same height, its likely considered neutral or still a negative trait.

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6'4" is like my dream height

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I'm honest with my height when people ask. 5'8". I've noticed that guys my height will claim to be one to two inches taller. I've wondered how many times I've sold myself short because I didn't lie too.

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It's also worth noting that the attractiveness values they are using are an average, which can mask some interesting trends.

For instance, I don't recall where I read it, but I believe that there is more variance in the attractiveness that different women will assign to a particular man than the other way around - e.g. a woman with an average rating of 7/10 from a sample of guys is likely getting mostly 6s, 7s, and 8s, with a few outlying 4s, 5s, 9s, and 10s, while a man with an average rating of 7/10 is more likely to be getting a wider spread from 4-10 that averages to 7.

The tentative explanation for this is that physical feminine beauty standards are more strictly determined by culture, so there is more agreement between guys on what is generally attractive, whereas women are more attracted to their favored archetypes (rugged, clean-cut, hipster, etc.), so a man's attractiveness is more a function of whether he fits a particular woman's taste than whether he is "classically" good-looking.

Anyways, the way this might be influencing those charts is that many of the men who have an average of 2 are actually being rated a 1 by the 75% of women who aren't into their particular look and a 5 by the 25% whose taste they match (that's a somewhat extreme case, I'm just using it as an example and because it makes the math easy).

That would also explain the forward shift in messaging, as each woman is messaging the men she finds attractive, but the lower ratings from women who don't message those men drag their average down.

[–]Brzinajbrzi 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[+]lezzykin -35 points-34 points-33 points 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[+]n00bs0fl337 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Comments would be a complete shitstorm as well.

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[+]lmak10 11 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

I have an honest question, please don't think I'm some asshole commenting to fight because I know that happens a lot around here. But how is it a double standard if many men feel the same way about taller women? I think it's a stupid gender stereotype about height, but I think both men and women unfortunately can fall victim to it.

[–]Flareprime 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]chmbrs 11 years ago* [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link

Christ. I'm 5'11. I don't feel short. Less than 15% of men are 6' or taller.

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The funny thing is that as this girl gets older, she's going to realize she made a terrible mistake. I know many women (and men, don't get me wrong) who decided that they were only going to date "10s", the kind of perfect physique, well dressed and self-important oaf that looks good at 10:30 at night. The problem is that they invariably cheat or fall apart. People whose sole focus is on themselves, either their career, their looks or their money have no time for anyone else.

She's going to turn 32, be single and see all of her friends getting married. Girl's night will consist of bitching about snoring and gushing about their new little family. She'll sit there and pound wine, smiling but secretly wishing she had the same 'issues.'

This is when they will marry the first guy who'll marry her. And he'll be a disaster. Either abuse or ambivalent, but it'll end in divorce. Last married but first divorced. This is how the story goes. Every group of friends has that person, and that snarkly little face makes me believe she's the girl who'll fall into that trap.

[–]Raudskeggr 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mel_Gibsons_Sanity 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PerniciousOne 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]fugbrah 11 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

What if you're 5'12

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[+]WardlyHasted 11 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

You can't negotiate attraction. If certain women aren't attracted to men under 6ft, then so be it.

I'm not attracted to overweight women. It's not up for debate and it doesn't make me an asshole. If a woman is noticeably fat, no boner for me.

[–]xNOM -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]OrosTheDarkElf2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[permanently deleted]

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[–]COYAD 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AustNerevar 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]warspite88 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KnowsAboutMath 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Deadcurry 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Well i've gotta say, 5.9" isnt that bad lol

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[–]ElfMan93764889-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]James_Duggan -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sylect -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Always with the double standards.

Comments

/s /s /s

Note: this is before I knew he was joking.

Title	Always with the double standards.
Author	GallowBoob
Upvotes	1293
Comments	478
Date	December 17, 2014 8:15 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2plxcs/always_with_the_double_standards/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/always-with-the-double-standards.992007 https://theredarchive.com/post/992007