Being "nice" is an evolutionary component for social bonding. The problem with the "nice guy/girl" argument is that these people aren't attractive enough for their niceness to matter in a sexual/romantic context.

truthteller8 · 2021-06-08T21:52:50+00:00

The main issue is that the "just be nice and tons of women will like you" type of advice is abundant in our real lives. Because it's easy to give, avoids potential confrontation and let's be real, most people don't actually care about the guy who has trouble getting women enough to give him real advice. Does anyone really give a shit about anyone else's problems?

And if you didn't know any better, you might believe stuff like that would work if you also don't have the physical appearance that is required.

velvetunderground111 · 2021-06-09T00:15:22+00:00

If you are nice and attractive that will work well. If you are ugly and still very nice, I think you will get friendzoned. Looks matter a lot in youth. I think this is just the harsh reality of life.

wtknight · 2021-06-08T19:35:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

lady_ven0m · 2021-06-09T03:15:26+00:00

If you’re being “nice” to get something out of it (I.e sex, validation, etc.) then you’re not really nice. People will eventually see through that.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-06-08T20:20:47+00:00

The problems are:

1) men are falsely told and trained that "nice" is a sexually attractive trait.

2) What EvoBio calls "reciprocal altruism" is what we call here "covert contract".

3) This used to have a sociological function in a "High Trust" society. We no longer have a high trust society. People also don't follow algorithms like this in real life. At least, not anymore.

4) What do we mean by "attractive"? Physically attractive? Sexually attractive? (Probably not "economically attractive" or "attractive for a relationship".)

Progterrebethia · 2021-06-08T20:47:41+00:00

I tried being nice, but I always get friendzoned.

Bigbigsby · 2021-06-08T19:45:16+00:00

I actually agree with the last sentence of this post 100% - FELLAS: YOU NEED TO DEMONSTRATE THE CORE ATTRACTIVENESS QUALITIES BEFORE YOU START DOING NICE GUY SHIT - she needs to see that you are well groomed, confident, self assured, socially calibrated, “fun”, and “ambitious” before anything

A lot of guys get this nice shit wrong - y’all are missing the point: niceness is not an attraction feature, it just checks her relationship box (oh he’s attractive & not a douchebag? He might be bf material)

Also if you really want to leverage kindness as an attraction feature (not a great idea) then you need to be prepared to just be kind for the sake of being kind, be kind to every single person you come across, and never expect any reciprocity: this signals to people that you don’t have ulterior motives and that you are just a great guy. (Shows maturity & demonstrates value) but personally I don’t think this is a good strategy to bag women if that’s the desired outcome

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-06-08T22:40:04+00:00

My advice to any nice guy is this - never ever pay attention to what a woman says she wants in a man. Instead ask her about her ex's, if they were all assholes and jerks then that is what makes her pussy wet.

BradenAnderson · 2021-06-09T02:28:02+00:00

I try to be nice to everyone. For the longest time, I was being nice because that’s just how I am. However, I’ve realized that being nice doesn’t result in it being easy to make friends, find employment, etc. So now, at the old age of 30, I’m a jaded asshole. Being friend zoned isn’t the worst thing; being blacklisted is. Girls don’t want anything to do with me

numinex333 · 2021-06-09T04:12:48+00:00

Being nice is a desireable quality once you are in a relationship in order to make the relationship longer and stable.However in order to get into a relationship you need many more qualities.Being nice will get you nowhere when you are trying to find a relationship.

ivy176 · 2021-06-09T04:34:31+00:00

Niceness doesn't purchase sex or relationships, nor should anyone expect it to.

Nice is also a separate quality to being slimey, having a victim complex and just trying to "simp" for sex. A genuinely nice person lights up the world around them and it just happens naturally. Nice people don't actively try to seem nice in order to receive sex.

Expect to be friendzoned by the majority of people if you're not really stereotypucally good looking. It is not normal or typical to have a large portion of people feeling sexually interested in you if you look average or below average. It's not being nice that causes being friend zoned, it's usually just looks. Gender is irrelevant in that. Being an asshole certainly won't help you. Just because some asshole men and women still receive interest because they're hot, does NOT mean taking on their persona will increase your desirability lol. People don't like asshole personalities, some just overlook them if they're really hot, because they're simpletons who just want to "own" a hot woman or man.

Real_Vents · 2021-06-08T19:32:46+00:00

If a person is expecting sex for being nice, that is manipulative. If they are attractive though yes it will be overlooked because then both people just want sex and the niceness wasn't even a component anymore.

What matters here is the intention.

shadowcandee · 2021-06-08T22:34:26+00:00

Thank you for sharing this, it really showed me how unattractive I am

classicslayer · 2021-06-08T23:46:44+00:00

Being nice is like having nice rims on a car do you want it? Sure. Is it necessary to get from point A to B? No.

Edit.

Shinysovietboots · 2021-06-09T05:01:05+00:00

This makes me wanna jump off the national cathedral do a flip and land on my teeth... I took the nice guy thing too far now My eyes are burning. And after being some would arguably say shunned I want it to rain fire and brimstone so I can sleep a little better at night

S0mnariumx · 2021-06-09T11:49:25+00:00

This is a hot take. No true altruism and its normal to get upset when your "niceness" isn't reciprocated. It's only such an issue because people tend to resort to insults, threats and harassment instead of just handling their anger more constructively.

firstmantolickmars · 2021-06-09T12:57:47+00:00

In my experience of being a "nice guy" for many years and wondering why it never worked for me, some people's "nice" behavior is extremely unattractive. It takes some life experience or parental advice if you're lucky enough to have that. Barring that, you might just learn it from years of failure. Many people think they're being nice, but they're just being some combination of passive, weak, sad, self-sacrificing, socially inappropriate, bad timing, etc. Some people equate being nice with being quiet and passive. It's not the same thing, but can be easily conflated. Nice is just a polite adjective for someone who doesn't exhibit a whole lot of behavior.

BassPotato · 2021-06-10T05:31:17+00:00

This is the black pill in essence

PM_ME_STRIPPERS · 2021-06-12T10:06:49+00:00

" be nice" = be attractive, dont be ugly

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-06-08T21:47:07+00:00

The problem with nice people is they do what makes other people comfortable.

So a nice guy hears women say "Don't hit on women - it makes them uncomfortable", so he doesn't.

Then women say "Women aren't comfortable with men who aren't aggressively chasing them. You have to push out of your comfort zone and initiate with other women unless you want to be single"

So does that too.

Then he hears women say "Don't hit on women - it makes them uncomfortable!".

Dirty_Purity · 2021-06-08T19:38:31+00:00

"Being nice" is a good way to lose pretty much any competition and I dare to show me a woman who likes losers. That doesn't mean that man should bully everyone around them of course men can be courteous and competitive at the same time. But genuine altruistic behavior is a sure path to failure.

Feisty-Saturn · 2021-06-08T19:25:28+00:00

Attractiveness is important, but does that have to be physically?

On Reddit there seems to be a big emphasis on physical looks…but what about wanting to be around someone who makes you laugh or someone that’s ambitious. These are traits that people consider attractive.

IOportA · 2021-06-08T20:21:57+00:00

Being nice as a woman is attractive to men.

And as with most things, what men find attractive, women do not.

Men want the girl next door, women want the former gangmember

Pola_Lita · 2021-06-08T20:52:46+00:00

Regardless of where a person learns "nice" behaviors, whether it's from their parents or in school or from anime, they do have to learn it. It's part of socialization skills and we aren't just born knowing how.

And no matter where we learned it, it's our choice whether we apply the skill out of a genuine desire or as a tool for manipulation. Some people take longer than others to recognize the type of "nice" another person is demonstrating but most of us do catch on.

As to how helpful it is in creating appeal, it would naturally depend on the ability of the subject to distinguish genuine from manipulative and at least a half-dozen other qualities whose importance is likely to shift from one person to another.

Black and white statements about human interactions are hardly ever accurate.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-06-09T00:51:30+00:00

If you expect sex in return for being pleasant to someone then that isn't being nice. Thats trying to get into someones pants which is a whole different thing

nyclaurco · 2021-06-09T02:43:15+00:00

i am once again saying that “nice” is the bare minimum. it’s not that you aren’t good looking enough, even though that may be true on a case by case basis depending on who you approach, but if you bring nothing else to the table besides “nice”, then you will be forgotten.

Orange_Paisley · 2021-06-08T19:52:11+00:00

Truly nice guys, not “nice guys”, have no more trouble dating than anybody else. It’s the guys who think being nice entitles them to sex who have issues.

stats135 · 2021-06-08T20:09:06+00:00

The problem with being nice is that it actively impedes you from being "attractive enough". If you just say you are nice but don't do anything, women would quickly be able to call you out that you aren't really nice.

To be nice you have to actually invest time, effort, and/or money into doing nice things. For you average man with limited resources, that time, effort, money has to come out of something else. More money contributed to X cause is less money for fast fashion. More time volunteering and helping women is less time at the gym. Women don't see it this way because of the apex fallacy. They only see the AlphaBux, the top 20% that can do it all.

SaBahRub · 2021-06-09T02:13:10+00:00

I’m pretty sure the “nice coins can be exchanged for sex” myth has been thoroughly discredited by this point.

And I really can’t think of anyone who literally believes that nice, bland decency makers women into slobbering messes

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superlurkage · 2021-06-09T04:00:22+00:00

Does anyone older than 14 who isn’t autistic or otherwise socially disadvantaged not know this already?

ilovegoss1p · 2021-06-09T08:13:03+00:00

Honestly when thinking about a “nice guy/girl” type of person I always imagine the kind that is very obviously being nice because they want something in exchange. One can be nice bc it’s part of their personality and they’re always genuinely nice people, others use niceness when they need something.

As I see it, it’s not attractiveness the problem here, but more usually that the “nice guy/girl” has shown their true colours. So if a guy, for example, is being super nice to me but starts treating me like shit if I mention I have a boyfriend then they probably weren’t a nice guy, they were acting nice to get something. I feel like nowadays a lot of people have trouble dating and go looking for tips on how to better themselves, they read that being nice helps and they try to act that way and probably get frustrated when they see pretending to be nice isn’t working, but they did an effort so should be compensated.

DiscussionReader · 2021-06-09T09:55:00+00:00

Nice guys/girls are only nice because they have to be. Being arrogant and selfish as a unattractive person is a shortcut to solitude.

Chads/Staceys are arrogant and selfish because they’re allowed to be. Look at all the thots on social media, they actually think they are talented and special because an army of spit-dripping simps jerk themselves to oblivion over their mindless takes.

How anyone can deny this obvious phenomena is beyond me.

uccelloverde · 2021-06-09T13:25:50+00:00

This is kind of on a tangent, but something I've thought about with the "nice guy" question is how I think many people - and perhaps the average man in particular - aren't super precise with their language, and will colloquially use "nice" and "kind" as near synonyms. I know if I heard someone say "he's a nice guy" before having been exposed to the Nice Guy TM meme, I would have assumed they meant he was a good person and overall treated people well. But I notice in these online discussions, "nice" (and in particular, "nice is the bare minimum") seems to just mean surface level politeness, or even just not going around actively being hostile towards others. I wonder if that adds to any of the confusion on the role of "niceness" in dating. (I'll add that I understand that no one should expect either politeness or genuine kindness to lead to sex.)

OXOzymandias · 2021-06-09T13:44:47+00:00

At this point we jsut kinda saying the same thing on repeat, like yeah being nice isnt the most important thing, it is always useful to be it, but if it is your main card, you kinda fucked lol

Good-Strong · 2021-06-09T14:15:19+00:00

This is the truth.

This and the fact that these "nice" guys usually aim for girls who are well out of their league looks-wise and socially.

"Nice" girl/"not like other girls" types don't actually expect guys out of their league to be interested in them to begin with (let alone feel entitled to them), because society and the media make it clear to them that these types of guys would not usually be interested in them, regardless of hoe "nice" (or actually nice) they are.

These girls just direct their resentment/vitriol at the girls who get more attention from guys than they do, or at sometimes at girls who get even less attention than they do in order to feel superior.

So basically, women are the ones who usually end up getting shit from both the "nice" guys, and the "not like other girls".

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-06-09T15:35:34+00:00

The problem with reciprocal altruism is that people use it to manipulate by trading small favors and expecting larger ones. Or trading favors that they have an abundance of, and expecting in return something that is much more valuable and difficult from you. Or they may give you their attention when it was unasked for, and then expect your time and attention be available on demand, etc. This is why reciprocal altruism in light social contexts is just to see if someone is receptive to getting to know you, and if they are capable of some degree of social niceties. Simple "good manners". Expecting more than that is trying to use the tool for something it shouldn't be used for and is exploitive.

InitialArgument1662 · 2021-06-10T06:25:57+00:00

Nice is literally the basic human standard that everyone should meet. I’m nice to coworkers. I’m nice to old folks when they’re being slow in the grocery store. I’m nice to people I am not attracted to and have no obligation towards. I’m nice to people when I stand nothing to gain from it.

The problem with men who ruminate over the concept of niceness and how it gets them nowhere spend entirely too long thinking the bare minimum of being a decent human should be deserving of sex. That’s just... not how it works, and it explains their entire personality. Being bitter that you treated someone with decency and got nothing in return is not how a nice person behaves.

Nice people don’t spend their free time feeling resentful over how they wasted time being a good person for nothing — they don’t even consciously think for a moment back on their actions during the day and mull over their niceness. Only people who are selfish do this, because for them it’s a deliberate action to be nice, and one that requires conscious thought to perform this way. And guys, women can tell when you’re putting on this act.

I’m tired of reading posts on Reddit where men pat themselves on the back for something they should be doing every day. Just earlier I read a post several paragraphs long about a guy who felt like a superhero because gasp, he wasn’t attracted to a woman and yet he went out of his way to ask her if her boyfriend treats her well. That’s the entire story. He felt like his two second-long inquiry about an unattractive woman’s well-being was worthy of announcing to the world because it shows what a great guy he is. That’s just one of countless examples of a certain type of guy whose entire concept of human decency only extends to women he finds fuckable.

Bigbigsby · 2021-06-08T20:45:38+00:00

Also there is such a thing as being too nice. Fellas you need to know when to be disagreeable/controversial

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2021-06-08T21:58:10+00:00

To be perfectly honest, being actually nice is a huge effort for me. I can maintain politeness but actually doing favors is not something i often engage in.

I have not noticed any detrimental effects thereof in my dating life.

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