Do you care about morals when choosing a partner?

HazyMemory7 · 2023-05-14T13:41:46+00:00

I literally just removed this for being a leading question. Don't try to circumvent thread removals by reposting a thread later.

hazelinside · 2023-05-13T18:04:27+00:00

If we have different moral opinions about important topics, we’re going to disagree.

I’m not going to date a person that is immoral.

Infinite_Signal90 · 2023-05-13T18:05:04+00:00

100% most important thing to consider before you call someone your boyfriend. The sad thing is you can’t tell someone’s morals until you know them a bit. So it’s impossible to pick a date based on this characteristic.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-05-13T22:14:32+00:00

What woman though?

Most couples are very similar to each other. It's called assortive mating.

So all those women who chase assholes... Are probably assholes themselves.

Damaged people with damaged people.

Take it from someone who lived in a poor place and then is now moving around circles with people making 6 figures.

The people who grew up with good parenting and in good environments end up with good relationships. People with daddy issues or grew up in drama filled and tense households grew up to date assholes.

Instead of asking why women chase after assholes maybe ask yourself first what kind of woman is she? Because lots of women are addicted to drama, have attachment issues or have a saviour complex. And lots of men are addicted to drama, have attachment issues or have a saviour complex

Lots of women grew up in healthy environments or went to therapy to realise where they grew up with maladaptive coping mechanisms. So do lots of men.

toasterchild · 2023-05-13T18:41:28+00:00

A lot of guys who post here think that anyone who is assertive and expresses his opinions and desires is an asshole. They are the nice guys because they bury all their own desires and try to guess what will make other people happy. They don't see how that's just a form of manipulation, that makes them assholes too.

saraimarsena · 2023-05-13T18:08:39+00:00

when i was 19, i didn’t care. i was young and naive. i dated a guy who bullied other people and was an “alpha male”, and kinda liked the idea of him having a soft spot for me. turns out, he was abusive.

now i care very much, i find it attractive when a man is a good person, i like it when he cares for others and treats people well.

being a good person and being confident, charismatic and strong are not mutually exclusive.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-05-13T18:12:22+00:00

Yeah of course I care about morals. Why would I want to build a life with someone who was a schmuck?

Safinated · 2023-05-13T18:17:50+00:00

2nd Q4Women in 24 hours asking: Are you a selfish sociopath?

Very subtle! No agenda at all!

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-05-13T19:27:06+00:00

Absolutely. Generally when certain men say women like bad guys, they mean he smokes pot or has a drink occasionally or has a tattoo or likes to have fun. None of these things preclude someone from having a strong moral base.

Existing-Sign4804 · 2023-05-13T18:11:34+00:00

It 100% matters. If someone treats everyone else badly, they will treat you badly too. That’s why women do so much of the “shit testing” you all get so mad about. We want to know what he’s really like, not just the mask he puts on.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-05-13T18:30:08+00:00

Like you yourself said, some guys are good at pretending to be a better person than they actually are. Some aren't and are openly shitty and they tend to attract women who have been raised in an environment where that kind of shitty behavior is the norm. Few, if any, well-adjusted people look at an abusive douchebag of either sex and think ''My god, I want to be with them, they seem like they'd make a great partner!"'

Also, a lot of people, especially when they're young, confuse arrogance for confidence, they confuse being controlling and selfish for someone having boundaries. In my early 20s, I dated a guy that I thought was a very confident, self-assured guy. He turned out to be very insecure and needed to put me down to feel better about himself. The thing is, it takes a while to get to know that person and figure out that what they're presenting to the world is very superficial and that they use it to mask some rather negative qualities.

And, to finally answer the question, yes, morals were important to me when I was looking for a partner. I wouldn't date someone who I found distasteful morally and if they had managed to hide that initially, I'd leave as soon as it became obvious who they really were.

AngeCruelle · 2023-05-13T19:22:18+00:00

Morals and behavior. Obviously the two overlap a good amount of the time.

I've been made aware that my dealbreakers for relationships are quite strict. No yelling, slamming doors, or emotionally-driven destruction of property (whether mine or his). Absolutely no illicit drugs. Alcohol a few times a year, preferably never.

I specify behavior in addition to morals because I don't necessarily think all of the above are moral issues or make a man a bad person. But I don't plan on dealing with those on a regular basis for the rest of my life.

text-redacted · 2023-05-13T19:48:13+00:00

My man's values and character is top of the charts when it comes to who I choose to date and marry. I approach dating with marriage and our future family in mind, so if I couldn't see him potentially fathering my children, I wouldn't date him.

So he must have good morals and good character.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2023-05-13T21:14:02+00:00

Yes, I care.

The guys I dated who weren't so great didn't advertise that fact! On the contrary, they hid it pretty well and presented an image of themselves that simply did not align with who they turned out to be.

Lies and manipulation work. That's why people do them. If I went about dating fully ready and willing to lie about who I am and what I want, cover up all my potential dealbreakers, and use manipulation tactics with 0 guilt -- I'd have probably been more successful than I was. I didn't want to do those things, nor did I feel the need as I was never really struggling that much but I'm 100% certain it would have made a positive difference.

If you had to choose between:

Basically your ideal woman, no red flags here, her values align with yours and she wants what you want

and

Nice enough, fun to talk to, has some mental health issues and a couple of other minor red flags

You're gonna go with the first one! Except if Ideal Woman is wildly misrepresenting herself and Nice Enough is being fully truthful... that might be the bad choice. You're not wrong or stupid for making a bad choice given false information. If your friends conclude "clearly you are attracted to liars" you might reasonably object. It wasn't the lying that attracted you, it was the lies.

ashpr0ulx · 2023-05-13T22:49:06+00:00

i like a bad boy as in he has tattoos and a motorcycle and maybe plays in a heavy metal band.

but the actual deep down heart of the man needs to be on point. a man of remarkable character or i’m out

anonymous-platypus1 · 2023-05-14T02:44:54+00:00

If we have different morals it won’t work. The people that don’t care about their partners core beliefs tend to be the ones in the most damaging relationships.

themoderation · 2023-05-14T04:15:25+00:00

Is this something you’re actually confused by? Obviously they do. You might as well have asked, are women capable of actual emotions? It’s questions like this that make me wonder if some men are capable of understanding that women are human beings.

Twinseo09 · 2023-05-13T23:11:26+00:00

“It doesn't matter if the man treats others badly, if he shows no empathy, if he is a bully or even a criminal as long as he demonstrates confidence, charisma, strength and (insert any other masculine trait) then finding a partner won't be a problem for him.“

No one is saying this. You basically just straight up constructed a misinterpretation of what people have said and called it a day.

What people argue is that these men, when superficially read, appear as charismatic and confident, which helps them attract attention. However, that's all there is to it. The assumption that people will overlook negative traits just because these men exhibit certain qualities is CAP.

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ChadChasingB · 2023-05-13T18:06:56+00:00

Morals are important to me, but also for own life. Do people look down on others that also engage in the same behaviours as themselves? Probably not. Do you have any evidence that these girls chasing "bad boys" aren't the same types of people? I haven't seen any.

EulenWatcher · 2023-05-13T18:35:32+00:00

Sure. I’ve also never dated a “bad boy” nor have ever been attracted to them. I’ve also said many times that women who fall for these men quite often have similar issues or some mental issues or they come from a troubled family.

Morals are important and I wouldn’t date someone who I had major disagreements on morals or overall values. For example, I wouldn’t be able to date a pro-lifer or a person who thought that being mean to animals was an okay thing to do.

eefr · 2023-05-13T20:45:00+00:00

Of course I care about morals when choosing a partner. What a bizarre question!

If someone shows me that they're a shitty person, I reject them.

That said, as you indicated, some very shitty people are initially pretty good at hiding their shittiness. Especially when you're very young and naive, it's easy to get taken in and only find out about the shittiness much, much too late.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-05-13T21:59:04+00:00

Yes I care about morals in someone I am dating. Someone who is kind to me but rude to the server is never getting a second date with me for example.

The US imprisons more people and a higher percentage of people than any other nation on the planet so simply using the word 'criminal' isn't necessarily a dealbreaker. I'd have to know the crime and the context. Caught smoking a bit of weed when they were a teen, don't think is immoral. Protested for the rights of harmed and abused people and was arrested for this I don't necessarily think that's immoral. Was down on their luck and couldn't pay off a few minor parking tickets in time so the 'crime' escalated, I don't really think that's immoral. Claimed asylum as is their human right but was abused by the law anyway? I don't think that's immoral. Didn't throw the bakery items out at the end of their shift but instead gave them to the homeless against store policy and local laws? I don't think that's immoral.

A bully however, an abuser, someone who lacks empathy or does not manage their anger, someone who was arrested for certain things that do harm, that's a different matter.

Yes morals matter. How they treat people matters. Their behavior matters.

houstongradengineer · 2023-05-13T22:52:01+00:00

It would be very easy for me to break up with someone who had a moral failing like holding expectations of me which he is in no way able to mirror for me. This isn't some virtue signal, and it's not viscerally emotional. It's just mentally and otherwise exhausting for most people to deal with someone who is incapable of consideration. This applies to me, and it applies to most other people including women. If a guy smokes pot or has the occasional one night stand under honest/mutual circumstances, that doesn't make him immoral. It makes him human. I'm capable of differences of opinion to a point. I'm capable of forgiving the occasional mistake when there is remorse and atonement. I'm NOT OK being a second class citizen because someone else is sociopathic enough to put me in that situation eagerly. Know the difference.

And, some people like this aren't able to keep up a mask if there's nothing much in it for them. However, most sociopaths will at least use some sort of intentional coercion to exhaust their victims. It's not like there are neon signs on a lot of people, especially people with few options who are looking for a long-term relationship. They are already preparing for the long con.

Derlyfeguru · 2023-05-14T00:52:44+00:00

It depends on what the woman is looking for. If its just a hookup and he's super hot, chances are high she wont put too much thought into how moral he is. But if its a ltr thats a different story

p_taradactyl · 2023-05-14T02:45:51+00:00

Shit, I care about morals when choosing a fucking dentist. I'm not going to knowingly give my business or my affection to anyone whom I believe to be a fundamentally shitty person by my standards. For instance, I could find a guy extremely attractive all around, but if I find out he's a trophy hunter, it's a deal-breaker. There's just no universe in which I would be willing to fuck someone who kills animals for fun.

I think we must consider the conflation of "bad guys" with non-conformists. One can choose to ignore or rebel against the rules and norms of society and still be a good person. Often, the perception of a "bad boy" is rooted in appearance, which means nothing in terms of morals. But what's the first thing many people think of when they hear "bad boy"? Someone who looks the part.

And therein may lie some truthiness: Certain "nice guys" may observe women dating men who look "rough", who act aloof and may come across as abrasive, and assume he must be an immoral asshole. But maybe these triggered nice guys are projecting their envy and resentment onto the perceived bad guys who give no fucks about what people think, while subconsciously yearning for the freedom and self-awareness that they themselves are lacking. So to fit the narrative, they tell themselves that these alleged bad guys are immoral, and therefore, women gravitate toward immoral men, explaining why the bad guys are successfully dating and they are not.

In reality, what is attractive about men who outwardly appear to be bad guys is they're often more interesting than men who let society's conventions dictate their lives. They are often creative, sensitive, passionate, open-minded, intelligent, confident, honest... traits that many women seek in a partner.

So that theory addresses one aspect of the "why women love bad guys" question - they may not actually bad or immoral, they just look the part and are judged on that. A likely smaller subset would be women who are attracted to men whom they know to be legitimately bad people, who don't share the same morals or have none at all. What would be these women's motivation? Possibly some mental health issues - childhood trauma, self-loathing, substance abuse, etc. Feeling like they don't deserve to be treated well. Easily manipulated. Delusional that she can change him. Or maybe she's also a legitimately bad person with no morals. I just don't buy it that there are a significant number of sane women who would want to be with someone who has no empathy, treats others badly, has a history of violence, etc.

TL;DR: In conclusion, yes, there probably are women out there who don't care about their partner's morals, but I believe it to be a relatively small subset. And yes, there are genuinely awful people out there, but many men are labeled "bad" for superficial reasons. So the 'women love bad guys' phenomenon is likely not as prevalent as one might think.

BoopEverySnoot · 2023-05-14T03:32:47+00:00

I could write a dissertation on this but will keep it extremely simple. Yes, morals are very important when choosing a mate.

dishonouronmycow · 2023-05-13T18:05:48+00:00

I absolutely care about morals. I would leave a date that was rude to wait staff, once a friends boyfriend made a racist comment in front of a group of us and I got up and left because I don’t tolerate any sort of hatred. I also wouldn’t date a man that makes money from the exploitation of others or has no empathy for those that struggle.

notseizingtheday · 2023-05-13T18:11:29+00:00

I won't date anyone who lacks self control, is arrogant and dismissive. But these guys don't act like that until they think you're invested. So no women don't like bad guys, bad guys lie and misrepresent themselves. They behave differently in front of other males, that's why males know this and are confused about why women would like these guys, you all don't realize they don't show women the same guy they show other men.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-05-13T18:21:28+00:00

if you mean christian/leftist pathological altruism then no, I don't. I prefer men who general morality matches my own, something approaching rational egoism. I want a man who is for himself and for me and for us, not for others or "society"

januaryphilosopher · 2023-05-13T18:34:12+00:00

Yes. Of course it's very important to me that any partner can be trusted to treat me and those around me well, and we need to be generally compatible on moral values so we don't clash. Someone who doesn't care whether they hurt others is intensely unattractive.

AssOfTheSameOldMule · 2023-05-13T20:02:49+00:00

To women, the most attractive man is the one who is in control. “In control” is different than “controlling”. “In control” means that the man is capable of imposing his will on the group, and the group will go along with his wishes (whether they enjoy it or not).

A woman’s criteria for identifying which men are “in control” depends largely on her culture, upbringing, and personality. But most of us are attracted to the same underlying thing: A man who is either feared or loved or both.

Some women see it as physical height and strength, some see it as warmth and openness and pro-social behaviors, some see it as money and status/popularity among peers, some see it as violence and arrogance, some see it as rigidity and hyper-conformity to the status quo (military, police, etc.), some see it as roguishness and refusal to conform to social norms (punks, criminals, etc.).

Being with a man who is “in control” is a high priority for women because historically speaking, that’s been the single most important factor in our survival and quality of life.

Some women look for men who are in control for their positive attributes, such as kindness and respectability and wisdom. These women care a lot about a man’s morals.

Others look for men who are in control for their negative attributes, such as physical intimidation and aggression. These women care little about a man’s morals.

Probably most women look for something somewhere in between: Tall, confident, and liked by (and/or dominant over) other people. These women care in varying degrees about a man’s morals.

Here’s why this trait of being “in control” is so heavily selected for: Women cannot physically exert their will over men, to secure food, safety, and resources for ourselves or our offspring. Up until the last few decades, we had to depend on a man to do it for us. In most parts of the world, we still do to some degree.

In the evolutionary sense, a woman with a sweet, timid, passive man is more likely to be hungry and cold and be eaten by bears, and so are her children. The village chief might be a total asshole, but his woman and children are well-fed and warm and protected from bears. Even if the village chief makes his wife and daughters absolutely fucking miserable, they still survive and pass on their genes. Even if the sweet passive man gives his wife flowers every day, she and her children will starve if the dude can’t convince the group to give him a cut of meat.

If the group hunts down a buffalo, the caveman who is “in control” of the distribution of meat will ensure that his woman and children are fed well. If a wild animal is about to attack a woman, the caveman who is “in control” by being the strongest and most aggressive can best protect her. If a caveman gets sick or injured, the one who is “in control” can simply order others to share food and resources with his woman and children until he’s better. If a woman is having a difficult childbirth, the caveman who is “in control” can rally (and reward) others to help ensure her survival and the baby’s.

All this is oversimplified of course. People are intelligent and nuanced and complicated and shaped by their environments. And we have altruism and empathy and love and all kinds of things that make this not-straightforward.

But there’s truth to the general principle: Women’s top reproductive priority is securing the love and loyalty of a man who can, in some way, bend other people to his will. Ideally he is kind and has good morals. But we’ll survive as long as he makes sure we are fed and safe, so exactly how he accomplishes that is a secondary consideration.

Plastic-Exit-9679 · 2023-05-13T19:02:26+00:00

Yes. Because I've dated rich men before and it gets dark quick if they don't have a moral compass.

nicoleberry16 · 2023-05-13T19:09:54+00:00

I'd say that a lot of it depends on how attractive I find the guy, physically and chemistry-wise. But definitely overall I prefer guys who are kind and treat others respectfully. How I see he treats other people is a big thing for me personally.

Professional-Noise80 · 2023-05-13T19:40:29+00:00

Women are attracted to whom women are attracted to. This is simply because their children will then have a better chance of finding a mate. So female sexual criteria are social in nature.

You need to consider how we define masculinity in our society, it also defines status, and is composed of self-reverence, lack of concern for usual moral norms and the suffering of others, ambition, emotional distance etc. The reason for this is simply capitalism. It's a system all about winning by crushing the competition. It's a race.

Women are attracted to status and that attraction reinforces itself. Female attraction is contagious and self-reinforcing.

There you go, given all this, the most simple answer is probably capitalism. That's why Jordan Peterson is so interested in who females chose as mates. He'll say things like "women mistake confidence for competence". I don't think that's true. I think women look for confidence as a form of fitness. When they find out how ugly these men are inside, they change, but that's because they evolved to stir away from evil men. Capitalism pushes women towards unnatural attraction patterns, and even towards rape fantasies, which are the favorite kind of fantasy for a tenth of women, but most women have had it at least once.

Straight_Plenty6244 · 2023-05-13T20:26:10+00:00

Well yes but says a lot about them really. Can judge someone by the company they keep. Bird of a feather and all.

Makuta_Servaela · 2023-05-13T23:38:47+00:00

I think it's important to distinguish the guys women want to be with, versus the guys women fantasize about wanting to be with.

Women love to fantasize being with the bad, dangerous boy because it's an exciting little daydream in a fantasy life. Not the "I want to kill you" type, but the "I would kill for you" type. She doesn't see him beating her in her fantasy, not really, she sees herself being safe from the rest of the world with him. But she doesn't want him. Rarely any of those girls who write love letters about X serial killer would actually put him up in her house. Even if you're looking at that incel thing they did a while back, where they played a pedophile on Tinder and saw how many swipes he got, how many of those girls actually wanted to meet up with him for a casual date or spend quality non-sex time with him? They most likely just swiped to flirt and imagine it.

I'm sure there are exceptions, of course, but at least that was always my perspective of dreaming of the bad boy characters. I'd never put up with his shit in real life, especially knowing it will be directed at me. But I can fantasize a knight in dark armour.

New-Preparation9296 · 2023-05-14T00:06:27+00:00

Having confidence in yourself is part of morality. Men who lack confidence in themselves are probably also morally lacking in some way

Den_the_God-King · 2023-05-14T00:14:10+00:00

Not that important for me but I’m only up for short term fun.

Jambi1913 · 2023-05-14T00:27:51+00:00

Personally, yes, morals matter a lot. I go completely cold when I see someone be rude to others, be a bully or be unkind to animals. In a potential romantic partner, it’s a sure fire way to completely turn me off, no matter how attractive I think they are in other ways - it’s just so disappointing and makes me look down on them. Nothing sexy about that. Respect is a big part of attraction to me - and I don’t respect bullies, narcissists or grifters.

But, I see women who don’t care about it - especially if they’re already hooked on him and they can make excuses or rationalise his behaviour. And I’m sure like attracts like quite often…or narcissistic assholes manage to love bomb their way into gentler people’s hearts.

Many men do the same thing and gloss over a woman who is an overly dramatic, nagging bully to everyone else because she is giving them what they personally want.

I wish it was as simple for everyone as: rude/immoral people are universally unattractive - but we all see that it’s not like that. It takes self awareness and strength in your own moral compass to steer clear of entanglements with immoral people that might otherwise be attractive prospects.

reddishrobin · 2023-05-14T01:18:23+00:00

Yes morals are important. I wouldn't date a criminal.

medlabunicorn · 2023-05-14T05:02:45+00:00

I have literally dumped men for ‘treating others badly,’ several times.

Of course morals are important.

Trouvette · 2023-05-14T06:16:30+00:00

Not having good morals is an automatic deal breaker. Bad morals are incompatible with the life I lead. A lot of guys take the “bad boy” thing way out of context. When women say “bad boy” they mean a guy with some edge, not someone adjacent to a criminal.

Blondefairy25 · 2023-05-14T07:02:20+00:00

Yes, it’s extremely important. Although some people pretend to have them for a while unfortunately 😢

RadicalQueenBee · 2023-05-14T11:01:35+00:00

In a partner and in people I choose to associate myself with I don't seek general objective morality but it's important that we share the same values. I don't mind a partner that drinks, shoplifts, smokes or smokes weed, swears, scams companies, sleeps around or other things I don't consider to be bad personally and I also do/have done. But I care about his views on politics and social issues (in this case it's a watch what they do not what they say approach), I'd never date a man who I know has cheated on his exes, lied to women for his sexual/romantic benefit, who's rude to people or a bad friend to his friends, dislikes animals or treats his parents badly for no reason. To me that's caring about someone's morals but the person I date would not be necessarily considered a "moral" person in the general sense.

Title	Do you care about morals when choosing a partner?
Author	Phantom-H
Upvotes	35
Comments	160
Date	May 13, 2023 5:37 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13gnpn3/do_you_care_about_morals_when_choosing_a_partner/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-care-about-morals-when-choosing-a-partner.1219176 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219176

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