What responsibility do men have for having relationships with nightmare women?

Karmanger · 2022-05-19T19:10:02+00:00

Depends on the situation:

Desperate men will do anything for sex, even deal with a BPD. (as long as she's having sex with him he will not care)

The men she dates only see women like her so for them that's the normal women (very common for inexperienced men).

The men that date her don't have any other relationship or women to compare her too so they can't see the issue.

They also don't have any female friends (they may have female acquaintances) but no one has their back and is telling them about the red flags.

Another reason is Sunk Cost Fallacy, They have been in the relationship so long they think they can deal with it.

Any_Drama3272 · 2022-05-19T21:05:31+00:00

It’s because BPD disorder causes a person with it to open up quickly. They will over share, they will cry, they will be vulnerable and ask for help extremely quickly because that’s what happens with BPD.

This results in the man feeling more in control if the situation: they feel needed and depended on, so it feels less threatening for them—so they trust her very quickly.

It’s not just guys—BPDs open and bond with anyone incredibly quickly because they more readily share info and then prioritize this person sooner than healthy—resulting in a new best friend who feels super close to you faster than anyone you’ve ever known.

…and let’s face it, everyone wants to be someone’s chosen: everyone wants a best friend they can go to for anything and do shut with, and speak your own language, and so on. Everyone wants a partner who is just for you, or your #1.

Except BPD have a problem where they operate on this need without recognition for reality not working that way. So it’s a simulated familiarity: you know someone for a week and suddenly they’re saying they feel like you’ve known each other for ten years, and that sentiment means they hold a different level of acceptable behavior and sacrifice in your mind.

At the time, they believe it too. Until it gets real:

That person who says they feel like you and them were meant to be or two halves of the same whole and so similar and understanding? Well, if that was true then now they want to know why what you did made them unhappy.

That unhappiness means the downward spiral of feeling like you must have lied to them: because bpd means they are incapable of regulating their emotions in reality:

…. Suddenly they question or feel suspicious if everything toward you because the truth is they didn’t know you as well as their minds felt like they did, and now they think you are fucking with them.

Now you prove things, they feel safe for a minute, but the reality that you’ve known this person for a month but they thought you’re someone they’ve known for ten years means it’s going to get ugly.

The kicker is, a lot of people say ‘crazy women have bpd, and that’s all it is’… but understand a lot of women with bpd end up gravitating toward men with npd… because those two disorders usually feed off each other (yes men can have bpd and women npd but the point is, those two disorders attract each other because of how they work.)

So if you find yourself constantly falling for batshit crazy women, or likewise, if you’re a woman who is constantly falling for assholes, and either scenario happens repeatedly—then you probably have a disorder yourself…. Because normal people usually see things to avoid the melt down before it gets crazy, so professional help is needed 100% of the time for either of these two disorders to continue normally.

zonadedesconforto · 2022-05-19T19:48:43+00:00

I had a relationship with a girl who was having a very hard time with borderline personality disorder a couple years ago. Not gonna lie, I quickly fell in love with her because she showered me with affection and kindness - for a guy like me, that dated mostly “distant” and “cold” women, it was an exciting thrill. Ignored most of her odd and unstable actions because I did not want to lose this rush, this bliss I felt when dating her. But in the end it was an exhausting and damaging experience for me, although thanks to it I managed to learn a lot about myself and grow as a person.

I think it’s easy for us guys to fall for women who are suffering from this PD because a) they can be very affectionate and loving while crossing every possible boundary at the same time, they turn relationships into this (often too) thrilling experiences and b) they put themselves into this very vulnerable and dependent position. This pushes so many buttons in a lot of guys, who wish to prove their masculinity by becoming this protector and that they will “fix” her.

Of course, no man can heal a broken woman (or man) alone. It takes psychotherapy and specialised mental health care to do that. Sure, you can (and must, if you care about her despite her flaws) lend a helping hand, but you are no hero, you are no saviour. You are just a regular dude. That’s I what i’ve learned from this.

Edit: for clarification

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-05-19T19:32:56+00:00

Usually because those women are extroverts; the only women who will talk to you.

nothatyoucare · 2022-05-19T18:58:58+00:00

I did notice most of these men tended to be "nice guys" - passive, mild-mannered, generous, and generally willing to take a lot of shit from women as well as spending a lot of their own time, energy and cash to solve women's problems.

Hi OP, this was me and the BPD woman I dated. For me I have never heard of BPD before dating this woman. We had worked together for a year before I left my job and we kept in touch and then started dating. While we worked together she was very competent and there was a lot of qualities I liked about her. My sister had bi-polar disorder so I thought I was prepared to deal with a woman with who wasn't neurotypical. I was wrong.

Now the thing about me is and I think this may apply to a lot of other men is think of dating prospects like money. Lets say two people are looking for a house. One has a budget of $150,000 and the other has a budget of $500,000. I'm going to be MUCH more understanding of the person who bought a house with $150,000 having problems with their house than I am with the person with the $500,000 budget.

So if you take me and and equivalent woman, she's going to have anywhere from 5 to 10 times the number of partners to choose from for who she decides to deal with. She has much more opportunity to end up with someone who is decent just from the sheer amount of people she has to choose from.

scwizard · 2022-05-19T19:52:55+00:00

I don't know why men end up in relationships like this but they for sure bare some level of responsibility.

I think low self esteem is part of it though. That they can end up feeling like they "deserve" the abuse.

Honestly religion has played a big part at keeping me away from situations like that. I no longer feel like most people are good people but I'm a bad person. Now i believe that everyone is a bad person so I'm not gonna feel like there's something especially bad about myself that would justify tolerating abuse.

abaxeron · 2022-05-19T19:16:17+00:00

Impulsive sexuality vs. reactive sexuality.

It's really nice and uplifting to hear, even once, your partner saying something like "you make me so horny; please fuck me right now" out of the blue. But for mentally and emotionally stable women, such behavior is rare and abnormal.

"Reactive sexuality" of "normal" women, i.e. the fact that the man has to "warm her up" and reenact some light version of a honeymoon phase date just to experience human touch by his partner, is perceived by men, and always will be, as "she is not actually attracted to me". Because. This is how women would have felt too if their partner only ever agreed to satisfy them after getting a blowjob.

I see men attracted to impulsive sexuality as addicts. They got into a relationship with such a woman once, randomly, couldn't stop, and chase the feeling ever since.

Just like addicts, it's entirely their own fault. And just like addicts, most of them cannot just stop and help themselves.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-05-19T18:39:28+00:00

Some men like the unpredictability of BPD women. It's kind of a double edged sword because that same unpredictability gets your tires slashed.

yvaN_ehT_nioJ · 2022-05-19T19:27:18+00:00

Another important question that comes up is how many of these men had crazy / domineering mothers? I ask as if they were raised by damaged goods, then perhaps that's what they are used to and expect?

I think that's a big aspect. That's what they experienced growing up so that's what they're used to. Quintessential No More Mr. Nice Guy material

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-05-19T19:31:51+00:00

although it's more common in women, I think some men like to feel needed and like they can fix a woman.

that's just my guess based on a friend.

NockerJoe · 2022-05-19T20:08:07+00:00

In my experience crazy people are visible and overrepresented in the dating pool because these are the people who are most regularly at most venues and on the dating scene. I had a (male) roommate with bipolar disorder and he got laid like crazy. But that was because he had no boundaries, spent all his money on drinking and gambling, went out every single night to places that would facilitate this, and he had no reservations about people who had extreme red flags like rehab patrons or couch surfing women who'd fuck in exchange for lodging. Obviously, this kind of person is really difficult to deal with so they also have a lot of spots open in their life since stable people just run out of patience after a while.

Same thing with women. If you go to a club or bar you're probably going to find at least one crazy nightmare woman there at all times because she probably doesn't care if she has anywhere else to be, how much money is in her bank account, or if the dude she's flirting with displays any red flags in either direction. "Good girls" generally spend way more time at home and aren't really playing the market in the same active way because that shit isn't really sustainable to a normal person.

They stick to Nice Guys because guys with no boundaries who'll put up with anything are the guys who'll actually stick around longest. It's not that they aren't dating or boning other types of dudes, it's that those dudes are more likely to end things when lines get crossed so the relationships don't last as long.

Obviously the flip side is these women are also way more open to being flirty and active sexually and actually sending out signals men can interpret. When you have no boundaries and poor impulse control and no real long term planning ability no fucking shit you're going to be more open to physical touch or flirting or just outright fucking a dude earlier.

Giallo_submarine · 2022-05-19T20:13:41+00:00

Been in a relationship with a nightmare woman who had BPD before. Here's my opinion:

In my situation at least, she didn't start out like that. In fact, she started out as a very good partner. But around the 4 month mark, something started to switch. And it was like a frog sitting in a pot of water that's getting hotter and hotter - you don't realise that you're being boiled alive until the skin is falling from your bones.

And bear in mind, I wouldn't describe myself as a particularly "nice" fellow. I'm not agreeable, not especially kind, and I'm a bit boisterous. But she wormed her way in to my psyche and destroyed my sense of self, thereby making me amenable to abuse. I truly believe that it can happen to anyone, and the worst part is that you don't even know about it until you look back and go: wow... that was fucked up.

Personally, I think the bulk of the responsibility lies with the abuser/nightmare person. Yes, we all have a part to play in our own welfare and autonomy, but at a certain point it's like blaming a POW for cracking under torture. Everyone's mind can be manipulated, and when an evil person figures out your specific key: watch out.

humdf · 2022-05-19T19:35:23+00:00

JD vs AH trial. BPD 101

RP 101 - never stick your dick in crazy

the second line is the mans responsibility.

jawnzoo · 2022-05-19T21:52:47+00:00

Idk, i dated a BPD woman when i was younger and didn't know better

love bombing is a fucking crazy drug when you're new to the game

Barely-moral · 2022-05-19T19:03:52+00:00

Why do you think some men either can't see or don't care about the damaged or twisted psyches of the women they are infatuated with?

They see it. But anything is better than nothing/inceldom.

wineandchillax · 2022-05-19T18:51:24+00:00

I’ll see if I can find the article but it has been Confirmed that we (humans) are even more attracted to attractive people with personality disorders. I think it’s the highs and lows of being with people like that can be addictive. As a woman I can comfortably say I think BPD is severely under diagnosed in women…men…y’all be safe out here.

Catherine772023 · 2022-05-19T20:16:57+00:00

I don’t think everyone with BPD is a monster but she may need help from a therapist not a boyfriend.

LowCreddit · 2022-05-19T21:01:49+00:00

My rule is: If you have a relationship with one abuser, you are normal and were forced to learn. If all of your partners are abusive, then you are the problem in one way or another. There are some guys who seek relationships with abusive women.

2022-05-19T21:03:04+00:00

Many men are desperate to some degree or another and are just happy to have a partner at all. For the majority of men, long dry spells between relationships are standard, basically cutting them off from intimacy entirely.

In regards to their mothers, I'd imagine a domineering mother is fairly common.

As for what responsibility they have, while I hold that nobody is in any meaningful sense accountable for their actions, they ultimately remain the only people who can actually improve their circumstances.

banjocatto · 2022-05-19T21:23:46+00:00

You just described my sister in law. From what I've seen, I think the men who hang around these women (her) have had either a neglectful or sheltered up-bringing, and it takes a little longer for them to notice red flags.

It's probably not much different from women who go for jerks who negged them. They likely had an abusive or overly sheltered up bringing, are insecure, naive, and susceptible to manipulation (love bombing, guilting).

social_mule · 2022-05-19T23:55:14+00:00

Lots of men have heard for years that crazy women have the best pussy. I reckon some men think the juice is worth the squeeze.

Ambassadior · 2022-05-20T01:15:41+00:00

The primary underestimation here is that the feminine forse creates illusions that most men cannot comprehend until it's too late. No one warns men about women.

gopher_glitz · 2022-05-20T01:36:38+00:00

I know a girl with BPD and I know how she is with sex and infatuation.

However, even though I want to believe in 'love' I also am a very strong believer in liars and crazy so once the stakes are up I tend to cut off the nonsense. Once the 'can I move in' card is played I'd be out.

Teflon08191 · 2022-05-20T02:27:30+00:00

I watch dudes put up with absolutely awful women because they figure "it's this or nothing".

I try to feel sympathy for them but every time I think about how these guys are perhaps the biggest enablers of modern women's 'princess syndrome' I just can't help but think "you get what you deserve".

No-Priority7869 · 2022-05-20T15:05:25+00:00

In my case it was always my own codependent tendencies and isolation. I lived in a city 500 miles away from where I grew up for 21 years so I didn’t have any real lifelong connections in my life and that put me in a situation where everyone I met had to be important. It wasn’t that way when I first got there, but as I got older and everyone circled the wagons around their own families it left non-natives like me out in the cold. But I could still get dates by playing the OLD game. For the last 6 years or so I lived there dating was my only social option and marrying into someone’s family was the only possibility I had for finding a support system.

DeJuanBallard · 2022-05-19T20:46:36+00:00

Dudes are just taking what they can get, suffering in silence and hoping for a quick and painless death. ....and that's not just the ones who are with girls that are obviously crazy, that's most men after enough time.

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-05-19T20:54:10+00:00

BECAUSE WOMEN GET AWAY WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE!!!

I went out with a woman with BPD and shit went down, like suicide threats, and later all these people I knew fussed up that they knew about her abusive past, but kept it a secret.

The only person who challenged her behaviour was this Alpha ballplayer who had heaps of attention and women.

Every other man would stare at the floor.

Right now we are seeing stark court evidence that Amber Heard is as abusive as f*ck and STILL she's been painted as a victim of domestic violence.

blaizken_420 · 2022-05-19T20:08:33+00:00

Gynocentric simp culture conditioned them to take it. Women are never expected to do the same.

Cr1v3ns · 2022-05-19T17:23:02+00:00

I'm sorry, but are you referring to a woman as having "red flags" because she was abused? What is this world

Smitten_Squire · 2022-05-19T19:29:49+00:00

"Cuz its better than nothing" lol

LotBuilder · 2022-05-19T23:04:27+00:00

BPD is the ultimate bait and switch. During the idealization phase the women bend over backwards to hook you. They do anything and everything to create an intense connection. There are some red flags if you know what to look for but for the most part the shit show is well hidden for several months. It’s not some thing guys line up for from day 1. They would run away.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-05-19T18:17:59+00:00

Everyone is fully responsible for who they get into a relationship with. Personal accountability is an undervalued principle these days.

old_wise_man_ · 2022-05-19T19:16:36+00:00

Most men dont have options.

Admirable_Bee_8714 · 2022-05-19T19:25:35+00:00

The same responsibility that women have for dating abusive men.

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OldSimpsonsisbetter · 2022-05-19T21:02:19+00:00

Because those men are actually stupid enough to believe other men abused those women, when most of the time it's just those women have mental issues + consistently pick men with red flags. Therefore these women must be "saved" and "protected" from all those evil abusive men.

That's not to take away from genuine victims of abuse, that is a serious issue in itself. But the amount of women I've heard that were in abusive relationships, you would think every man out there is an abuser. Women have free choice who they pick as mates and free choice to end a relationship with someone abusive. If they keep going back to abusive men, that is all on her and her poor life choices.

TheEternalGhost · 2022-05-19T22:30:58+00:00

why do you think some men either can't see or don't care about the damaged or twisted psyches of the women they are infatuated with?

I think the bottom line is that there are many men who don't really admire mainstream women. When they meet a woman who is 'different', they think they've found their unicorn rather than just someone broken.

FFTzzz · 2022-05-19T19:29:39+00:00

The responsibility is always 100% on the one that is abused if they are free to leave and there is no real coercion. This holds for both men and women. I have some degree of sympathy depending on the state of their mental health but that does not mean they are not responsible . I was lucky enough to have complete control over my urges even though I have a very high libido so I never actually done something stupid for sex many men appear to not be so lucky.

Apprehensive_Boat_70 · 2022-05-19T21:09:51+00:00

As far as im concerned , for many men thats the only women that pays some attention to them, others just look for crazy because they dont feel guilty after pumping and dumping her, but the truth is, most of those nice guys you see running after her really have no other options, or if they have, it is the same kind of woman, is not this "crazy vs nice girl" dichotonomy like "bad boy vs nice guy", it is just "crazy vs loneliness".

Quealpedoestoy · 2022-05-20T00:01:46+00:00

The same responsability than women who have relationships with abusive men

Pastelitomaracucho · 2022-05-20T00:07:44+00:00

Them knowing their partners are crazy but staying with them anyway? Totally their fault.

Being gaslighted by their own friends, family and society about crazy women? I mean, you don't know what you don't know.

RatDontPanic · 2022-05-20T00:32:56+00:00

Half. They're half responsible. Men need to filter women for moral character and sanity and less for looks. Period.

toasterchild · 2022-05-20T02:23:26+00:00

They are damaged themselves. It's what they are used to. Low self esteem. Savior complex. Excitement and a love of drama. There are so many reasons people get attached to unstable partners.

Magnito-was-right · 2022-05-20T06:06:34+00:00

I have bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. I disclose that on the first date. I’ve never had a man not ask for a second date.

shadyMFer · 2022-05-20T08:16:46+00:00

I think you hit the nail on the head at the very end, most guys that flock to crazy bitches had abusive and domineering mothers. Studies have shown that people seek out the types of abuse they were raised to expect.

Ok_Grapefruit_631 · 2022-05-20T14:33:22+00:00

There’s men who actually love crazy girls that’s they’re thing shrug I have bpd and have had guys confess to me they like em crazy, my recent ex did too. Though I’m not amber heard level of bpd I’m not violent or abusive.

TodTheRod01 · 2022-05-21T06:59:07+00:00

i'd say in general just tolerating shit behaviour. At some point whatever bullshit facade the crazy chick has going on is gonna start cracking and the real her will poke through more and more....and rather then let pussy cloud your judgement you should check that bad behaviour or be ready to cut ties.

To many guys put up with stuff and don't just move on, as well as setting the tone themselves (the men) early on.

Boxisteph · 2022-05-25T19:03:32+00:00

Infatuation is a mental illness derived from attachment issues and self repression.

You see what you're missing in yourself in the other person and you feel whole around them.

Men need to go to therapy

Shredddz · 2022-05-19T20:34:35+00:00

they are fully responsible. at the same time, they have no other options because these women typically are better looking than their partners and these men are conditioned to be doormats, so thats why they are blind. they are brainwashed to not perceive women as potentially evil, and find any excuse because they are lonely and ca not do better

LarryLooxmax · 2022-05-19T21:52:22+00:00

Zero sympathy whatsoever, bpd women are fuck-machines. Those guys probably had a blast before the drama became too much

What responsibility do men have for having relationships with nightmare women?

Comments

His sanity, his choice.

Title	What responsibility do men have for having relationships with nightmare women?
Author	SweetDaddyDooDah
Upvotes	35
Comments	211
Date	May 19, 2022 5:18 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ut8b7r/what_responsibility_do_men_have_for_having/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-responsibility-do-men-have-for-having.1119329 https://theredarchive.com/post/1119329