Men always being expected to make the first move and approach women, how did that tradition or status-quo originate? i doubt i'm in the only guy in the world who has always hated and resented that

30reddits · 2022-05-17T04:05:33+00:00

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Celestialpearldanio · 2022-05-17T05:17:35+00:00

Biologically when you look at reproduction, men have a low investment and women have a high investment and high risk. There's no immediate physical risk for a man to ejaculate. Until recent times, pregnancy was a huge health risk. I don't know statistics but many women would die in childbirth. Then if you do survive you still have the only biology made to feed your baby for its first months. So even in a tribe with mutual childcare the investment and risk is much higher for the woman.

Siukslinis_acc · 2022-05-17T05:47:11+00:00

Just look at nature: males are more colourfull and have more impressive distinguishing features (like a lion's mane), while females are more plain to better blend into the enviroment. And the males are the ones who try to impress the female (look at birds mating dances).

Wrasserman · 2022-05-17T09:17:35+00:00

The status quo originated when people started moving into industrialised cities away from the countryside. When you had your whole community living in a small area entire families would choose wives and husbands for their children.

You can even look at the divergent dating trends in big cities today compared to small towns.

EugeneCezanne · 2022-05-17T13:12:56+00:00

Consider a social order in which promiscuous men are treated as heroes and promiscuous women are derided as sluts. Who would you think created it, and who do you think would do the initiating?

YoungArabBrother · 2022-05-17T04:05:52+00:00

if men dont make the first move they dont get laid. if women dont make the first move they still get laid. how in gods name can you guys not figure this out and what in gods name do you want the possible solution to be. Force women to approach a man a week or something…?

Also of the last idk dozen or so women I hooked up with this past year, easily half struck up conversation with me first so I also question how true this even is.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-05-17T17:47:16+00:00

Where do you think a man asking a father's permission before he proposes comes from? Or just men proposing? It's all based in historical precedent of women not being involved in the selection of their partners.

MrMushySauce · 2022-05-17T04:58:35+00:00

I mean keep in mind we started in tribes. What the fuck was an "approach" you routinely talked to everybody. Even in a village you'd talk to most people routinely, too. Anything beyond that is abnormal for how we were created and so customs that arise from it just come from extremes (because there's magnitudes more people to multiply the effect) of what was the norm "naturally." Naturally, men wanted to bang more different village chicks than women wanted to bang village dudes. With millions and billions more people, that turned into men talking to more girls on average, women knowing men will talk to them, and an effect created

Lysa_Bell · 2022-05-17T07:53:59+00:00

Surprisingly women do approach men. And we get rejected like men. I hit up my bf and he is still saying he's so grateful I did the first move because he would dejected me casually talking to him in an online chatroom as just being nice, even through I was very direct.

I also hit up guys in bars and got rejected before. Women are just more picky and we don't necessarily play the numbers game. We focus on what we want.

creekcrystall · 2022-05-17T04:11:37+00:00

You know what’s funny about your comment? There are women who have approached men and have been called “desperate” or the guys wanted them to chase them. For men who want women to approach them, y’all boys ain’t doing a dandy job keeping these ladies feeling appreciated.

worldofknolowlage · 2022-05-17T09:33:24+00:00

From what I've learnt from my years of experience I'm 40 now I've been through the highs and the lows. You don't really approach women or make the first move if she likes you it will happen almost in tandem it will be so easy she will put herself so close to you and make herself so open technically she approached you you even though you approached her. But my friend do not feel bad by this. Most modern women only do this with the most attractive men. Think about it if a woman wants a situationship she controls sex why not just do it with the best it doesn't mean that the best man is going to like but he will use her for sex and she will do the same with him. When a woman has had her fill with men and women usually men but nowadays is both then she will start looking for other options usually around 30 or so is when you will hear a woman say she's looking for a real man that is when the rest of the guys come into play. Whether or not you're right with this is up to you

whitepumas · 2022-05-17T11:52:53+00:00

Well I started the first move on the guy I was crushing on. Now we’re married. He’s my best decision. Glad I made the move first

SylvestorTalone · 2022-05-17T16:07:46+00:00

In the game of reproduction, the female gametes are worth way more than than the male ones.

This is both from a supply/demand perspective, with men producing billions of times more sperm over a lifetime than women have eggs, and also in the sense that 99% of the biological 'work' of bringing a fertilized embryo to term falls on the women.

This fundamental imbalance governs basically the entire meta of the mating game. The reason why dating is orders of magnitude easier for women than men? It's because you as the man don't have t deal with pregnancy, that's your 'payment' for the brutal imbalance on the other end.

The fact that many, many women try to basically double dip and love to whine about how hard pregnancy and childrearing is for them (it is), while also maintaining the absolutely laughable position that men have it easier in datng basically demonstrates that most of them have zero ability to adjudicate these things.

Kentucky_Supreme · 2022-05-18T14:22:25+00:00

I don't mind that men are expected to initiate. Everyone here seems to be under the same impression that it's just nature and the male role to initiate.

Although what I don't understand is how much guys get demonized for trying to initiate something if the approach is unwanted. Some women even say it's "creepy" if the guy is simply looking at them. Let alone attempting an approach. Which, to me it sounds perfectly normal for heterosexual male to be drawn to a woman that he finds attractive. It's truly mind numbing.

sarkington · 2022-05-17T05:09:57+00:00

Uh…men having to ask a woman’s father for permission to get near the cooch? Marry her?

AquaChip · 2022-05-17T17:33:12+00:00

Sperm chases egg. Not the other way around.

gate18 · 2022-05-17T05:46:49+00:00

Think about the Taliban.

Women there can't even let the sun hit let alone them hit on men.

Whether things were ever that bad, this world has always been a man's world. Hence they are the ones to express their wishes.

I know for a fact that in many parts of the world (if not all) you (the man) didn't even need to ask the woman, you just asked her male family members.

There's even (at least one) novel that speaks of men selling women (for example in the UK centuries ago).

There's a photograph of two women holding signs saying "proud sluts". Judging by internet comments, that's "out of order", trashy.

I have a mother and a sister. I'm 100% sure they have been labeled slut. Sluts for doing or not doing something.

A lot of fellow white people get angry, uneasy, and defensive when it is said that there's racism towards non-whites. Equally, a lot of fellow men get aggressive when they hear about the deep, deep, sexism and male dominance in our culture. They even start making stories to justify it. As if being slightly weaker than men is a reason to endure sexism. Even though, when it comes to unpaid labor, their weakness doesn't seem to have gotten in the way!

So yes, the origin of this is rooted in sexism.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-05-17T10:35:02+00:00

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bludkraze · 2022-05-17T08:49:44+00:00

If we assume what seems to be the case: that women want to be lead. Then it follows that men have to take action to be attractive.

socialising21 · 2022-05-17T18:36:35+00:00

I have the same thinking, I even tried to post the same question few days back but wasn't approved , glad yours is approved. I don't think about status quo part, but I think that men who can't and struggle to make the first move be it whatsoever , it's really tough for them when none of the woman comes ahead and just say that I like you....

ohheyhi99 · 2022-05-17T04:15:49+00:00

I'll let you in on a secret

You can save a lot of headache by only dating women who approach you first

Ok_Rooster2674 · 2022-05-17T04:12:46+00:00

Because you are less desirable than women. It’s always been this way. Grow up.

gladusgates · 2022-05-17T05:46:03+00:00

This about sums it up:

"Briffault is known for what is called Briffault's law: The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place."

Women deemed it so. And women get what they want.

HumanSockPuppet · 2022-05-17T05:47:21+00:00

It's in the genetic blueprint. If you're too pussy to approach, you don't get laid.

You are the end product of a long lineage of guys who got laid. Fucking act like it.

ThatGuyNicho · 2022-05-17T05:27:25+00:00

Men are always expected to make the first move and approach women

I really don't think that is true.

-Acta-Non-Verba- · 2022-05-17T05:25:05+00:00

Men very horny. Women not as much.

leothelion634 · 2022-05-17T11:30:44+00:00

Nature, birds do it, some males have to dance or fight for females. Do you want to get mad about nature or just deal with it?

MepleLeef · 2022-05-20T17:51:05+00:00

There are some societies that exist/existed on earth where it's normal for either gender to initiate the relationship. But my theory is that men-leaning relationship initiation comes down to traditional Christian values that went into "Lady" and "Gentleman" gender roles. It was not considered modest for a woman to approach men, and I think this has stuck.

wtknight · 2022-05-17T13:46:47+00:00

First, men are more sexually aggressive. Second, approaching shows confidence, which women find to be an attractive trait in men.

OscarSmiled · 2022-05-17T05:13:53+00:00

Men have sex drives and pursue women.

Women don’t. So they are the sellers, and you’re the buyer.

It’s a sellers market. They set the rules.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-05-17T05:18:01+00:00

Women find assertiveness and confidence in men attractive. If you aren't willing to approach and risk rejection that speaks a lot about you as a man, or rather, a lot about how much work you have to do to improve yourself.

mandoa_sky · 2022-05-17T05:20:58+00:00

before current dating - historically you'd be asking her dad permission to date/marry her.

if you care about being traditional, you'd still be doing the "asking dad for his blessing" thing.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-05-17T16:43:20+00:00

You can thank patriarchy wanting women to stay in our place, higher male sex drive, and higher female reproduction risks. Of course that doesn’t mean ALL men are going to be happy with the status quo. Patriarchy has never really benefited all men, primarily just those at the top.

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-05-17T19:55:48+00:00

I’d say 99% of men vocally hate it

legend0102 · 2022-05-17T06:15:11+00:00

The most a woman has approached me is to just stand or sit besides me and wait for me to talk to her. Wow, big approach.

By the way, idk if this is different among cultures, but here in my country being “Chad” or handsome has drawbacks that can actually make it harder to get a girl. For example, groups of friends are against you because one of the boys likes the girl who likes you. Or groups of female friends trying to hurt you because you don’t like them back.

Woko127 · 2022-05-17T08:20:38+00:00

Because men realised that if they waited for women to make the first move, then we'd never reproduce as a species. Have you been on Bumble? Women ain't got game like that and I don't think they're built to take rejection the way men do.

Even when they think they're being forward with you, they're usually just standing in your vicinity and hoping that you make a move 😂🤷🏿‍♂️

ethinker · 2022-05-17T09:54:31+00:00

It’s the nature of males to be aggressive and initiate while the nature of females is to be passive and receive.

A man shouldn’t wait for things to happen but supposed to get them done.

The problem is in the current society, men are punished for their natural behavior and sexuality and being used for it as well.

Women use this to exploit men not just filter them out, they will tease you even if they’re not interested just because of boredom and because society wouldn’t punish this behavior of women anymore.

Basically, women aren’t shamed for whatever they do while men are shamed for even being men and they dynamics are broken so what used to be a fair game is not anymore.

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-05-17T10:22:14+00:00

Men are active, women are passive. Men take charge and control, women are the receivers of that. I know you hate it and resent it, but that's going against your nature as a man. As a result you are lonely and sexually frustrated. See I was exactly the same as you until I got so horny that I started taking action and then I was no longer lonely and frustrated.

Aquix · 2022-05-17T18:43:12+00:00

Leaders initiate. Men lead. But of course, you don't have to hold up to basic masculine standards or maintain that gender role. Do as you wish, guy.

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Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-05-17T05:21:29+00:00

Bible times .... I'm just gonna throw a stone .

FFTzzz · 2022-05-17T05:26:11+00:00

It probably started sometime around the time the first male morganucodon first got horny but maybe much much earlier still. Sorry but like most things it's not a social construct.

vtribal · 2022-05-17T09:08:09+00:00

Women definitely do make the first move from personal experience

Antonija_Blagorodna · 2022-05-17T09:27:21+00:00

Also, I don't think women know that the majority of guys don't want to initiate. They don't want to be the one to say "hi". They don't want to bother anyone. But the fact that initiating is practically the only way any guy will have a chance at finding love, forces otherwise unwilling men into these awkward interactions.

So now we have the status quo where men are suppose to initiate, but because they initiate, they also play into "rape culture" and the "men harassing women in public" rhetoric.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You either initiate and risk contributing to sexual harassment, or you wait and risk being alone for the rest of your life.

Taipanshimshon · 2022-05-17T09:55:57+00:00

I've seen some girls try to approach a guy.

They manage to make 17 yo guys high as a kite sound like Casanovas.

chimichangacowabunga · 2022-05-17T14:04:16+00:00

It’s evolution. It’s not a social tradition.

AelfredRex · 2022-05-17T14:40:14+00:00

"The ladies hold the aces and their lovers call it passion. The men call it pleasure but to me it's old-fashioned.".... from No More, No More by Aerosmith.

It's not evolutionary, it's puritanical Victorian middle-class sexual repression. Putting women on a sexless pedestal which men have to coax her down from with offers of riches and status.

But there have always been bold women and even more who will make some form of effort when the promised reward seems high enough.

ruboyuri · 2022-05-17T15:40:41+00:00

Whoever wants sex more has to personally approach

If you just want marriage, on the other hand, people will act on your behalf

Droidsx1 · 2022-05-17T21:33:49+00:00

Courting.

Synovexh001 · 2022-05-17T21:34:41+00:00

All across human history, you see a redundant theme in most cultures regarding courtship and creating new generations of life; men pursue women, and women decide (if they're allowed) which pursuer is good enough.
You could write it off as a conspiracy, that there's some globe-encompassing 'patriarchy' forcing everyone to do this, and we can free ourselves by destroying this paradigm.
That's a lot easier to chew on (but a lot harder to substantiate by evidence) than the grim realization that, this pattern is the result of millions of years of natural selection in environments with specific selective pressures. Namely; that women can pretty much just sit there and exist, and still end up reproducing AND that men who based their reproductive strategy on women doing any real work to pursue them back, overwhelmingly tended to die childless.

H8beingmale · 2022-05-17T21:43:51+00:00

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Euphemia006 · 2022-05-18T19:14:22+00:00

From what i have read here. (Comment from women)

Women approach men. If you did not get approached it means you have not been found attractive enough to be worth the risk.

Women approach men. It is just men fault if they can pick up the clues.

Most men are not attractive enough.

Men are used to rejection, not women. So...

Not stating my view. Just mentioning the comments i have seen on here. Do with those whatever you want.

plutodarling · 2022-05-18T21:57:04+00:00

I’m sure people have brought up that it’s nature or whatever (the males always make attempts at attracting the females)

But I wonder too if it’s because of everything from the centuries prior. Women didn’t usually have any agency in who they chose. It was either a match up by her parents and his parents, or some guy goes up to your dad and says “your daughters cute, how many cows for her?” Then that idea gets watered down to the guy just going to the girl directly and asking to date or marry. I think what backs that up too is why you hear girls say their attempts at attracting guys is subtle, they had to wait for someone to take interest in them and that was pretty much the only way they could. All that of course is changing within the last half-ish century but even if it does it’ll just take time for it to undo and be the norm

yourcousinrafa · 2022-05-22T19:39:46+00:00

Didn't realize anyone resented this. It's only natural in my opinion. I think what you resent is that you're not able to approach women successfully. Trust me when you can approach any women anytime and anywhere get their number and have amazing experiences you won't resent anything.

Work on your approach and you'll never feel resentful.

Cheers

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