CMV: Women complain about the "expectation" to wear makeup even though they enjoy it.

KikiYuyu · 2023-05-19T21:59:35+00:00

Are you sure you're just not hearing the different opinions of different women?

No_Yogurt_4602 · 2023-05-19T20:06:37+00:00

I like makeup; it's fun and can let you dabble in being a little artsy while also feeling pretty, and both creative expression and contentment with one's appearance are nice things to experience.

I don't like the social expectation to wear makeup, like how if I didn't wear makeup any makeup at all to my internship one day my coworkers would think that something was amiss or how demonstrably better I'm treated by strangers when I do wear makeup. Like I'd genuinely never even consider going into an interview, meeting a partner's family for the first time, teaching a class, presenting at a conference, etc. without at least some subdued, professional makeup ... and I think that that's an issue. It shouldn't be a requisite component of being considered professional, put-together, etc.

It's like how when you're a kid and are more than happy to tear through one book after the next, but if almost any of those same books had been assigned to you in school then reading it would feel like a slog. People enjoy things when they don't feel externally pressured to do those things and often tend to resent them when that isn't the case.

anonymous-platypus1 · 2023-05-19T18:48:00+00:00

The women that enjoy wearing makeup aren’t complaining about being expected to wear makeup. They are complaining about not being able to go even one day without it, and without someone claiming they look tired or sick.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-05-19T19:08:09+00:00

First off, the women complaining probably aren’t the same ones doing makeup tutorials and such. Some women enjoy it, others don’t. It’s also possible to enjoy wearing makeup when one feels like it, but not enjoy being expected to always wear it. I’d say most women feel this way. We all have days where we woke up late or just can’t be assed, only be greeted with “you look tired, do you feel okay?” at work, or even that no makeup isn’t professional, depending on the job. I’d say the greater issue here is really people feeling way too entitled to comment on women’s appearances.

blueshinx · 2023-05-19T20:25:23+00:00

I've seen many women complain about unrealistic beauty standards and how there's an expectation imposed on women to wear make up. But at the same time, many women also argue that they don't wear make up for men, they wear it for themselves. These 2 complaints directly contradict each other.

The first one is radical feminist theory, the second one is a liberal feminist stance. These two ideologies often contradict each other.

I think the reason they complain about it is to use it as an excuse when needed. Women are the ones promoting, showcasing, learning, and doing all this stuff with makeup. But they are also the ones complaining about needing to do make up for a date, or for work, or to be respected or any of these things. So even though they are enjoying make up, they're also complaining that they enjoy it?

There are social benefits to wearing make up. That doesn’t mean they enjoy the process of applying make up. Liberal feminism heavily emphasizes free choice but in the end it’s a product of economic liberalism. The make up industry is certainly a very lucrative field.

Now my theory is that these women who are complaining, have become so dependent on makeup, that they've forgotten how to take care of their skin without it (plus make up apparently makes your skin worse). This creates a cycle where they feel they need to use make up to make themselves feel nice but instead of accepting it's their doing, they blame it on others. I was browsing instagram after a while and noticed that seems to be the theme for a lot of post. The reason they do these things to feel good are someone elses fault.

I disagree with women not knowing how to take care of their skin. Skin care products are crazy popular at the moment, literally every make up brand is focusing on that right now.

Regardless, criticizing beauty standards but then reinforcing them is obviously ineffective.

My point is: the ideas that make up is an enforced expectation of women and that make up is entirely a free choice are products of different schools of feminism.

Traditional-Bad-4055 · 2023-05-19T18:54:18+00:00

My gf complains about having to wear makeup. At her job it’s important to look put together and professional and for women that includes wearing some light makeup.

When she works from home she usually doesn’t do makeup

She also enjoys wearing makeup when we go out and experimenting with all of that. I can see how it’s fun for her with all the different colors and stuff. That kind of makeup she can’t wear to the office

Do you see how she can feel all of the above and not be contradictory?

Barneysparky · 2023-05-19T18:43:21+00:00

Perhaps, just perhaps women are not all the same.

satisfiedmind- · 2023-05-19T20:24:40+00:00

The hoops you’ll jump through to avoid accepting that women don’t like being told what to do.

begayallday · 2023-05-19T21:18:59+00:00

Women are not a monolith. Some women like wearing makeup. Some do not. I have had jobs before where I was required to wear it, and I did not like it. I didn’t like the expense of having to buy it, the time it took to apply it and remove it, and I didn’t recognize myself when I looked in the mirror. Now that I have left that industry I do not wear any makeup at all and I have no desire to.

MiasmicSector · 2023-05-20T15:22:46+00:00

I think most women don't enjoy wearing makeup but they have to wear it to compete with eachother.

Feminism blames men for this saying women bid for attention because of men's expectations.

In reality they do it because they are trying to beat eachother out.

No accountability, therefore I give those who think that way no respect.

LotBuilder · 2023-05-21T08:07:18+00:00

Women blame beauty standards on men while promoting Beauty standards that most men don’t care for. Long nails, caterpillar eye lashes, contouring, bbl’s, lip injections, Botox, etc. I don’t know any men that like any of it. Y’all are doing that for each other, not for men

MoreSanitizerPls · 2023-05-19T18:52:01+00:00

I don’t wear make up because make up never really appealed to me and wearing it makes me uncomfortable. With that being said the expectation that I should wear makeup does hurt me socially and professionally as a person who fundamentally doesn’t like using make up.

I’m treated very differently by co-workers and the like because I refuse to put on make up. The stereotype about women without makeup in the work place is that they look “unkempt” and unprofessional so I have to put in extra effort in other areas of my wardrobe to appear presentable. Things my male coworkers don’t have to worry about. So yes I’m free to complain about the make up standard since wearing none effects me daily.

The truth men don’t like to admit is they like when women wear make up. They like tasteful make up over a plain make-up less face. I know because I’ve seen it with my own eyes. They’re drawn to women with “natural” make up opposed to those with none.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-05-19T20:17:47+00:00

You can like something and disagree that it should be socially enforced

I like make up. I like heels. Some days I can't be bothered with one or the other.

I will also fight like hell for the right of other women to be socially accepted to not wear makeup and think that anyone who expects make up for anything should gtfo

Like I'm not lesbian or trans but I support their right to be themselves in society.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-05-19T20:53:03+00:00

I enjoy cooking. I like looking at the ingredients we have, figuring out what will taste good. I like experimenting and trying new things to see what works and what doesn't. I like the effort of chopping up ingredients, sauteing them, combining everything in a pan, letting it simmer and soften. I like doing fancy plating and looking up videos on interesting presentations of food. Every step is great.

That doesn't mean I want to do it every goddamn day.

SteveSan82 · 2023-05-20T05:35:45+00:00

Most men don’t even like makeup. Women wear it for other women

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-05-19T19:50:35+00:00

Women complain about the "expectation" to wear makeup even though they enjoy it.

Because people don't like being told what to do with their bodies or pressured even if it sometimes aligns with their own tastes.

Kind of why we have women in France and Canada who protest in order to wear hijab and women in Iran protesting for the right not to.

It's not about the hijab it's about having the freedom to wear it or not as they desire without social pressure or legal fallout.

No-Chance-8405 · 2023-05-19T19:04:39+00:00

These 2 complaints directly contradict each other.

Are you sure they are the same women? I think they are two distinct groups.

soulangelic · 2023-05-19T20:42:24+00:00

I like wearing makeup and I like how fun it can be to apply it. I do think it makes me look prettier.

What I DON’T like is that for women who choose not to wear makeup, they’re labeled “unprofessional” in the workplace and “sick” or “tired” in social circles. Just for showing their normal faces.

I like makeup, I don’t like society’s reaction to it.

toasterchild · 2023-05-19T18:57:37+00:00

Some people have a lot of critics in their lives offering up unsolicited advice to make them feel crappy about themselves and some of us dont.

Honestly none of this would be an issue if we just let people who want to wear makeup wear make up and people who dont' want to to not without comment. Who cares if Troy wants to wear eyeliner and Mia doesn't? Hopefully someday people can just do whatever.

towerofcheeeeza · 2023-05-19T20:02:06+00:00

I like wearing makeup to go out. But I don't like having to always wear it when I go to work. Even though I like putting makeup on to go out, if I have to wear it multiple days in a row it irritates my skin.

EugeneCezanne · 2023-05-20T00:16:06+00:00

I've seen many women complain about unrealistic beauty standards and how there's an expectation imposed on women to wear make up. But at the same time, many women also argue that they don't wear make up for men, they wear it for themselves. These 2 complaints directly contradict each other.

First, these aren't necessarily the same women making both claims. Second, it isn't a contradiction: you can both enjoy something and still dislike the expectation that you have to do it. Lots of people enjoy their work, but would prefer not to need it to afford a roof over their heads.

What people really want is to believe they have the freedom to do a thing or not. Anything, no matter how fun, can become a chore at times if you don't have that belief.

VividlyDissociating · 2023-05-20T01:58:44+00:00

uh no.. they dont contradict each other..

just because we like doing something for ourselves doesn't mean that someone else should expect me to it all the time.

i like getting a massage, having my nails painted, and having a drink while socializing. i dont do any of that stuff for anyone but me, just like makeup.. should anyone have expectations that i do any of those things every day, all the time??

someone expecting you to wear makeup means they are pushing theor personal beauty standards on you.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2023-05-20T02:52:07+00:00

Women complaining about having to use makeup to seduce is like guys complaining they have to get nice cars to seduce... Oh yeah, guys don't complain about it because they're not hypocrites!

SoulBadguy0408 · 2023-05-20T03:01:49+00:00

I feel like it's two different issues.

If women really do wear makeup for themselves like they say, and it's not just to impress men, then there's that

However, it shouldn't be made into an expectation or requirement or anything like that just because they willingly do so. Don't think anyone enjoys feeling forced to do stuff like that

ThrowRAy2kay · 2023-05-20T03:17:32+00:00

Makeup is a tool. Natural beauty is far and few between. I’m speaking for myself here. But as child I was treated like crap. Like i wasn’t allowed to breathe the same air because of the way I looked. According to everyone I was ugly girl but think I have beautiful features like big eyes, straight teeth, clear skin, skinny, small. I think a lot had to with colorism and maybe self hate. I started wearing makeup to be accept by others and funny enough it worked. It was a gateway drug I guess. You start off with a little bit and all of sudden you can’t get enough. The more I wore the more bad reaction I got from others. It made me sad. It was a coping mechanism for me. I used it to hide. Nobody was there for me a teen. I had no support. But those are just excuses, I think now I have a better relationship with make up, and oddly it enough I feel like more men are approach me more without makeup which is so strange for me. Maybe because I look less high maintenance? Idk. I think that most women in the real world don’t wear makeup. At least from my area and where I’m from?? I like 1 in 10 I see with makeup. Or maybe I just can’t tell, there’s that too. The whole makeup argument feels a bit chronically online. Makeup is a skill and most can’t do it correctly. The pressure to wear comes from “pretty girls” everyone want to get advantage or get ahead, and makeup is the tool.

BunnyFlopped · 2023-05-20T04:55:26+00:00

All human beings have contradictions, and it is perfectly normal to have your feelings be convoluted sometimes. Everyone has that including women.

There is pressure for women to look a specific way that cannot be done without makeup/filters/procedures. This makes a lot of women uncomfortable and feel insecure.

Women are also taught that their worth is based entirely on their appearance and appeal to men.

Women will also definitely notice when they fit more into the standard that they have been aiming for when wearing makeup.

However that doesn’t mean that devoid of those social implications they would dislike the idea of artistically decorating themselves. Not to mention, a lot of women who advocate for saying makeup is an avenue of self expression do not approach it in a way that is traditionally attractive to men.

isthisregrettable · 2023-05-20T04:58:26+00:00

There’s this phenomenon where two different women can hold different opinions and views on the world. It’s pretty fascinating.

Also, both can coexist. You can enjoy makeup and be bothered that it’s so societally enforced and dislike that it’s so expected of you.

I don’t know about NA or Europe, but when I lived in Asia my job was threatened if I didn’t wear makeup. It’s not always a choice. I know that the expectation is societally enforced in a lot of other places as well, women, especially in the workplace, are expected to look like they put work into their appearance, and that includes makeup.

AngeCruelle · 2023-05-19T19:53:20+00:00

I find that makeup affinity is strongly correlated with the age you learned to use it.

Like women who have been messing around with their mom's makeup bag since they were like 5 tend to be the best, enjoy it the most, and are most comfortable applying it.

Women who learned out of necessity just in time for senior prom on the cusp of 18 are less likely to care for it.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-05-19T18:58:18+00:00

What do you think is enjoyable about putting on makeup? It's like saying people enjoy brushing their teeth or something. It's a routine task you only do because you feel you have to do it. If you stop wearing makeup, you're generally treated worse - I stopped wearing it entirely so can easily contrast, but even women who skip it for a day can report being told they look tired or sick. You only feel nice when wearing it because it makes others treat you better, it's not like there's any other reason to make you feel good other than how your perceived. You know how I know nobody enjoys it? They never wear it when nobody else will see them.

Blame_the_Muse · 2023-05-19T18:45:40+00:00

Those are different women

angelicasinensis · 2023-05-19T19:42:22+00:00

So firstly, just want to say a lot of men wear makeup. Secondly, people do what other people do, they get cues from others on how to dress, act, look, etc- it’s called culture. Women probably feel like they need to wear makeup because it is culturally normal. Personally, I wear mascara some days but that’s really it- for me, I don’t like makeup but I generally don’t like the ingredients in makeup and don’t use. I grew up in a culture where makeup and shaving were considered abnormal, was noticed and commented on, so obviously I am used to no makeup, no dyed hair and not shaving. Another example are bras- even small chested women wear them because it is culturally unacceptable to have nipples showing. I think bras are way more culturally forced on us than makeup, I feel comfortable without makeup but not comfortable with obvious nipples.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-05-19T21:01:06+00:00

I very rarely wear makeup except for a work function (no need to wear it daily for work, since I work from home), some kind of party, weddings, and such. My skin is super sensitive so wearing makeup means I can expect a breakout the next day. But there is definitely pressure on women to wear makeup. At the work place, in media and magazines, even men - so many of them claim they don't like it when women wear makeup but what they mean is they prefer minimal makeup to the caked on look. I've actually been shamed for not wearing nail polish and not waxing/plucking my eyebrows, and by men. Being a functioning member of society sucks sometimes.

MrHustleTopG · 2023-05-21T02:30:48+00:00

Women and bitching about nothing name a more iconic duo my man

HmanTheChicken · 2023-05-19T20:56:48+00:00

It’s neither here nor there but I usually can’t tell if my fiancée is wearing makeup or not

Sometimes she has none on and I think she looks super beautiful and sometimes she puts a lot on and I can’t tell

Makuta_Servaela · 2023-05-19T21:01:48+00:00

The fact that everyone wears it is really heavy pressure to wear it. Women who don't wear it are perceived as more sickly or more unkempt than women who do. Society at large mostly forgets what an unmade woman's face is supposed to look like because of that. I don't wear it myself, and don't feel a strong reason, but I definitely can't help but to feel that people think I am automatically less normal just because I look like myself.

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UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-05-19T19:56:36+00:00

What is this weird obsession so many men on here have with women and make-up? It's so bizarre.

FakeNewsFredo · 2023-05-19T22:19:57+00:00

It's also competitive. A woman that looks subjectively better can land a better-looking guy. Or, she can do better in her career than her peers.

AceArguments · 2023-05-19T23:07:06+00:00

Men complain about the expectation to be a man even though they enjoy it. Same thing.

eternitypasses · 2023-05-19T23:07:53+00:00

Make up is a viscous cycle. One you use it regularly, anytime someone sees you without it, they will ask you if your sick.

And yea it can affect your skin but that just depends on the skin and the makeup being worn. No one has to wear foundation, I know I don't. I do eye makeup and lips and a bit of concealer, but it's very rare for me to put foundation on my whole face.

wtknight · 2023-05-19T23:36:30+00:00

I think they often enjoy it, but they probably don't want to have to wear it all the time in every social situation, which is why they sometimes complain.

rabbitinredlounge · 2023-05-20T03:34:25+00:00

I don’t wear makeup at all and it’s annoying that my regular face is considered “unprofessional” in some spheres

Active-Razzmatazz-86 · 2023-05-20T04:00:07+00:00

Women will complain literally about everything .Imagine being most privileged in dating and they still complain about it .Almost everything women do is to impress other women and they blame men for it

I_DRINK_ANARCHY · 2023-05-20T04:21:43+00:00

Different women have different takes on make up you know.

I really dislike makeup. It takes time, it feels weird, it's easily ruined, and anything that's decent quality is expensive. I had a job where wearing it was the cultural norm and it suuuuucked. Nowadays I do not wear it except on special occasions, like weddings and fancy dates out. I have thrown out a lot of make up because I don't use it fast enough before it goes bad.

Some women love makeup. They are expressive and creative with it. Some women feel they need it, because of social or professional pressures. Some of us hate it, and hardly wear it, if at all. One woman's opinion isn't all women's opinions.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2023-05-20T07:36:02+00:00

It's almost as if different women feel differently about the same subject and aren't a monolith. Crazy.

Mentathiel · 2023-05-20T09:38:51+00:00

I don't wear makeup. I still feel the pressure to wear makeup.

Recently, I was at a wedding with no makeup and an older relative of the bride got super concerned that I didn't have the time or forgot my makeup (wedding was in another country) and offered to give me hers. Because it's so unimaginable that I just didn't wear it by choice.

Many employers have dress codes that include makeup for women for public-facing roles.

I've had one professor at my college who said he prefers when women come to exams fully put together with neat makeup, nails, and stuff, because it let's him know they didn't study last minute because they still had time to do it.

Many women assume if you don't wear makeup that means you feel like you're better than them, but you actually just don't know how to put makeup on nicely and are overcompensating with feeling holier than thou or something. But you don't actually have to be condescending to them, some will still take offense just to you existing there without makeup and assume that you feel like you're better than them.

A lot of people will just not see you as equally professional, put together, or whatever, without makeup.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not great with makeup and don't care to learn, it's expensive, it's a lot of work and time spent daily on makeup and skincare, it can feel bad on your skin or be restrictive when it comes to leaving it on things you lean on, drink, kiss, touching your face can smudge it, it's just a drag. I do my own nails and enjoy that very much and I do skincare for my face and I'm happy with just that. If I could have no consequence makeup as in I don't put any effort or time in, it doesn't bother me throughout the day, my skin stays good, etc. would I like to have it? Probably at least sometimes. But in practice meh.

But there are many reasons to enjoy makeup. It's kinda artsy and it can be a form of self-expression. It gives you some amount of power socially and sexually. It can be soothing and relaxing in a ritualistic kind of way. It is sort of a reserved me-time every day.

CloudsTasteGeometric · 2023-05-20T14:08:50+00:00

You're allowed to find joy in something and still be annoyed by the fact that you're societally obligated to engage with it.

They aren't hypocrites: they're just (reasonably) upset that they can't CHOOSE to opt out without raising eyebrows or attracting criticism.

ceereality · 2023-05-20T14:46:41+00:00

Here is a theory: its all because they want attention

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-05-20T16:05:57+00:00

Just wanted to point out that I wear makeup daily, but skincare is my priority. I have a robust skincare regimen that I do both morning and evening, and makeup hasn't done any damage. These days, many types of foundation and tinted serums are even made with skincare ingredients to help improve skin.

y2kjanelle · 2023-05-20T18:38:58+00:00

There is an expectation for women to wear make up. I get called sick and tired and unwell and sad when I don’t wear it. When I do wear it I don’t hear those things.

However that doesn’t magically make me hate make up.

Same with anything else and some men rave and scream about their own things they just can’t understand that womens lives aren’t rainbows and unicorns because they have no respect for women is all. There are negative stereotypes of skaters and gamers. Doesn’t mean they enjoy those activities any less they just wish people wouldn’t put stereotypes on them.

ThrowRAaccnt12345 · 2023-05-21T23:40:25+00:00

I’ve worn makeup on days I was incredibly sick just so I can look in the mirror and think “nice” knowing I wasn’t stepping a foot outside.

Title	CMV: Women complain about the "expectation" to wear makeup even though they enjoy it.
Author	FutureBannedAccount2
Upvotes	55
Comments	239
Date	May 19, 2023 6:39 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13m3z64/cmv_women_complain_about_the_expectation_to_wear/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-women-complain-about-the-expectation-to-wear.1219763 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219763

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